Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

Thanks for your info. Interesting theory that makes sense. They definitely need flash backs to show the fall out from his death. That's really important. I kinda hope Laurel doesn't join Team Arrow though. Like why would they want her to join, especially is she starts off as a  really bad fighter like Guggenheim claims.  And in the comics Black Canary isn't a sidekick. Unless she joins and then Oliver kicks her out when he comes back. 

 

Did they confirm that 3x11 is a heavy laurel episode? TBH I don't think 10, 11, or 12 are going to be super Laurel heavy. They will just have her arc to BC. I think 3x13 the Laurel heavy episode, hence the title?

When asked to describe 311 with one word, MG said "Canary", so I'm guessing that's the one with lots of Laurel. It also makes sense to me that they'll deal with whatever left over journey they have for her before February sweeps. It seems clear to me they need her to be full on BC without Oliver's influence either way.

I also have a feeling Laurel + Team Arrow working together is gonna be a matter of necessity [as in Brick is doing whatever evil crap he does, and Oliver is not around, and any help is appreciated] instead of character drama. At least that's how I'd play it -- by underplaying it.

[ban1o]

According to AK, 310, 311 and 312 are the Laurel trilogy.  313 is "Canaries" so it will probably be about Sara and Laurel.

 

If they are going to make any episode Laurel-heavy, 311 makes the most sense.  People will tune in for 310 but if there's too much Laurel, they won't be back for 311, whereas they will for 312 because Oliver will be back in that one.

I think Oliver would return at the end of 3x12 so they probably won't advertise his return. But i guess 3x11 does the most sense if any of them are going to be Laurel heavy. But considering Sara was supposed to be a Laurel centric episode and it really wasn't i think that's subjective anyway. 

When asked to describe 311 with one word, MG said "Canary", so I'm guessing that's the one with lots of Laurel. It also makes sense to me that they'll deal with whatever left over journey they have for her before February sweeps. It seems clear to me they need her to be full on BC without Oliver's influence either way.

 

Oh I'm sorry didn't know that! i must have missed that. Ok now I get why people are saying 3x11 is laurel centric lol. 

[foreverevolving]

https://twitter.com/jadimples28_cha/status/543521804816773120

 

It's gonna be Malcolm. Also that's Malcolm's voice in the promo.

Edited December 13, 2014 by foreverevolving

[calliope1975]

Why would Team Arrow believe anything Malcolm has to say? I'm sure he'll have some video he recorded on his phone. /rollseyes

 

If that line about not wanting to be a girl you love is about Oliver and Felicity, and if Oliver is still being all manpainy, broody, can't be with you, after he's died and been resurrected or whatever happens, I may just burn down the WB. And when I'm arrested, my evidence will be 2 1/2 seasons of this show plus MG's troll-y tweets. I'm pretty sure I'll be acquitted. 

[apinknightmare]

From an article posted in the spoilers only thread about DR's appearance at a con today:

 

 

According to David, Roy will be stepping up in a rather large way to help protect Starling in Oliver’s absence and there will be some scenes with Roy and Merlyn together which I can’t wait to see. He also stated that Sin will be returning and her reaction to Canary not being Sara is going to be very pivotal to the story.

 

I wonder what that means? She's not going to know Sara's dead, and...what, exactly? 

 

And...ugh:

 

 

David also dropped a massive hint about the future of Starling city, he stated by the end of the season there will be three superheroes, other than Oliver,  protecting Starling. Which means Arsenal and Black Canary come into their own but leaves a question as to the third.

Edited December 14, 2014 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

I wonder if Buckle Canary's not out flailing about and Sin sees her and immediately knows that's not Sara thus bringing her into the story. But what pivotal info will Sin have?

[ban1o]

Although I think Ray is okay and don't find him creepy as most people here do. I'm not really interested in him becoming a superhero. I don't see why ATOM origins is necessary for this show. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by ban1o

[SonofaBiscuit]

That was a very nice write-up about David Ramsey's appearance.  But I am concerned that maybe Ray is going to be back next season.  This show is becoming way too overcrowded.  It's like the EPs have the impression that because we enjoy Team Arrow, that means that we'll enjoy Team Arrow with a bunch of extra members.  No.  And I don't know what good social media feedback is going to do because people keep saying the same thing over and over again, and Guggenheim still doesn't get it.  Plus, I feel like if you react negatively to the show on social media, you get accused of being a negative asshole or a hater, so there's that.

[statsgirl]

Personally I hope the third "superhero"  along with Roy and Ray is Malcolm.  Or Nyssa. Or even Thea.  Because I really don't think I can take it if InstaCanary is out saving the city

[ban1o]

Personally I hope the third "superhero"  along with Roy and Ray is Malcolm.  Or Nyssa. Or even Thea.  Because I really don't think I can take it if InstaCanary is out saving the city

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt :P 

 

(I'm just teasing, don't take me seriously) 

But I agree that I fear how they are going to pull of Laurel as BC but I guess I'll wait and see. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by ban1o

[dtissagirl]

It's really sad for me that I usually love love LOVE superhero teams, and all of my favorite media revolves around Scooby Gang -type stories, but I hate the idea of Laurel and Crazy Eyes becoming team members WITH THE POWER OF A BILLION BURNING SUNS.

Also, the idea of Sin realizing Laurel in s suit is not Sara is just so sad. Poor Sin.

[ban1o]

I was thinking at first they were going to make a spin-off with Ray but they obviously aren't now. I wonder if he'll come back in season 4 or if he'll leave the show at the end of season 3. 

[SleepDeprived]

I'm calling the three superheroes by the finale to be Roy as Arsenal, Thea as Speedy, and Diggle as Mr. Gun Show (he'll get his own tight-fitting superhero costume that amply displays his massive arms, damnit!). Laurel will realize that becoming a vigilante takes more than 3 months of boxing classes and that she's actually more effective protecting the city from within the system. And Palmer will peace out to have his own origin story in his own city, where he can use his crazy eyes to creep out the villains as well as shrink and enlarge anything he pleases to, at will.

 

It's Christmas, guys! Nobody try and take this delusion away from me!

[ban1o]

 

It's Christmas, guys! Nobody try and take this delusion away from me!

haha okay. Merry Christmas :P 

[statsgirl]

If Sin sees Laurel in the suit and says "that's not the Black Canary", I will be saying 'yeah, tell it sister.'

 

Team Arrow worked, very well indeed.  When they added Sara, even though she was a good character and a great fighter, it became problematic because they couldn't write for four team members and Diggle and Felicity got the shaft, not to mention Roy whose growth into Arsenal happened off-screen.  They've integrated Roy better this year, but at the cost of Diggle.  And now there's going to be five on the team, including one who is barely competent?

 

Problems:

• Oliver and Ray are both alpha-males and too alike.  Oliver works well with Diggle because Diggle is like a wiser older brother and Diggle is willing to let Oliver take the lead.  I can't see Ray able to take order s from Oliver, or Oliver letting Ray take the lead. There's a reason Batman and Superman aren't joined at the hip.
• Roy works best as muscle.  Let him have his episodes while Oliver is gone and then backburner him again.
• I can only take Laurel in small doses.  The more I see of her, the more I dislike her.  To make her fit into Team Arrow, she would need a personality transplant.

 

The only way I can see this working is if the Black Canary and the Atom work separately from Team Arrow and only cross paths occasionally.  Or if they both leave the show at the end of season 3.

 

I'd prefer Thea to be Speedy to Laurel's Black Canary, but I can't see how she would fit into the Arrow lair either.  But at least I know she probably wouldn't be taking up the storytime Laurel will.

 

Wow, way to kill my anticipation of 3B.  And 4A

[Starfish35]

The only way I can see this working is if the Black Canary and the Atom work separately from Team Arrow and only cross paths occasionally. Or if they both leave the show at the end of season 3.

I absolutely cannot see both Oliver and Ray full time on the same team. As you say, they're both alpha males. I don't know where they're going with Ray, but I'm having a very hard time seeing him sticking around full time. I think he'll move on after this season. And to be honest, at this point in the show I'm having a hard time figuring out why he was brought in in the first place. Why exactly did this story need to told right now?

As for Laurel....they really cannot keep having her all by herself in her own story. It is make or break time. She either becomes part of Team Arrow and the Team Arrow story, or they need to write her out permanently. They cannot keep playing this game with her and her fans. And you all know I'm no Laurel fan, and certainly my preference would be for her to leave at the end of the season. But I just do not think continuing to have her on her own separate track from everyone else is a good idea. The excuse up until the end of last season was that she wasn't in on the secret, and then I guess it was because she wasn't Black Canary yet. But once she puts on that costume, then the excuses are over, even if she's a terrible fighter.

I'd prefer Thea to be Speedy to Laurel's Black Canary, but I can't see how she would fit into the Arrow lair either. But at least I know she probably wouldn't be taking up the storytime Laurel will.

Personally I would like to see Thea/Speedy on the team. I've never been an advocate for Team Arrow only having three members. I would have liked to have had Sara on the team full time. And since she's dead, another woman on the team (not Laurel) would be welcomed. I just would like to see them all written equally well, and so far that's not something they've seemed to be able to manage to do.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Starfish35

[calliope1975]

Just saw this on Tumblr and it made me laugh/recoil. At the beginning of Ep 10, will we get, "My name is Roy Harper... or My name is Laurel Lance....?" 

[ban1o]

Just saw this on Tumblr and it made me laugh/recoil. At the beginning of Ep 10, will we get, "My name is Roy Harper... or My name is Laurel Lance....?" 

lol on reddit there's a thread of people spoofing the intro with different characters. Some of them are really funny. They include Roy, Laurel, Diggle, Ray, Thea, DJ Chase and others. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

Or "My name is Ray Palmer.  Seven months ago, my fiance was killed in an attack and I was helpless to save her. Since then, I have vowed to become stronger and more technically enabled so that I can save my city.  To do that, I must to be something else....."

 

I think the team would work best in three tiers:  Oliver, Diggle and Felicity, and then Arsenal and Speedy.  It's a five member team with two women but Diggle and Felicity are right behind Oliver. I think the problem with how they wrote Sara in 2B is that she was too powerful a character, she was up there at Oliver's level and replaced Diggle as the person he went out in the field with.  Speedy, like Arsenal, is just learning.

 

If they bring Laurel in, her fans will be demanding that the Black Canary be equal with the Arrow since that's the way it is in the comics, and I just can't see that working without changing the show.

[quarks]

The most likely three new superheroes are Ray, Laurel and Roy, but....there are other possibilities. For instance, the three added superheroes could just be Team Arrow finally coming into their own: Roy as Arsenal, Diggle in a costume as Diggle, Felicity as Insert Name Here  or Watchtower (or an Arrowette joke) with the finale being all three of them realizing that yes, they are heroes now. 

 

Or alternatively:

 

Ted Grant

Sin

Thea

Lyla as Harbinger, if she leaves ARGUS (and she might; I'm still arguing for ARGUS being the real season three or season four Big Bad.)

Slade, now that the Mirakuru is out of his system; he could easily be the series' Spike (in the sense of flipping sides)

Firestorm, who could hop over from Flash just for the finale.

Other characters introduced in upcoming episodes - we still have 14 more to go.

 

I say this because I'm not convinced Ray is sticking around post this season - the writers have barely had him interact with anyone other than Felicity, something that both screams Temporary Love Interest and isn't something TV shows usually do with characters they have long term plans for, however cool their little robot suits might be.  Though Ray could certainly be the third superhero protecting Starling City in the finale and yet only be a occasional guest in the fourth season.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I have to say, I'm curious to see how episodes 10-13 are received.  If their attempt to prove that Arrow is bigger than just one character doesn't go well, maybe they'll abandon this idea that Arrow should have three other superheroes besides Oliver.  I'm actually OK with Roy and Thea as Arsenal and Speedy, but I'm not interested in Ray or Laurel as superheroes.

 

I'm not sure what their plan is for Ray, but I believe that there's no quicker way to turn people against him than to put him in a romantic relationship with Felicity. I seem to remember that not going so well for Sara last year.  She seemed to be pretty well received up until she kissed Oliver (or he kissed her, don't remember), and then people turned on her.

[ban1o]

If Thea does become Speedy (which I am definitely not sure about) they should have her not use Arrows or that would make her really redundant. Speedy in some versions of the comics was good with swords as well. I'm also guessing in 10-13 they'll show Roy using non archery weapons as well. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

There may be three superheros in Starling City besides Oliver but it doesn't mean they will all be on Team Arrow.  Nor do they have to stay in Starling City.  Ray can help out fighting the Big Bad of the season, and then move on to either The Flash or his own show, with Oliver getting PT/QC back at the end of the season.  The same can be said for Ted Grant, he and Laurel can be off fighting villains by themselves in Starling City only working with Team Arrow occasionally, or if LaurelCanary fails, they could move to Coast City, I hear there are no superheros there to fight crime.

 

I'm not sure what their plan is for Ray, but I believe that there's no quicker way to turn people against him than to put him in a romantic relationship with Felicity. I seem to remember that not going so well for Sara last year.  She seemed to be pretty well received up until she kissed Oliver (or he kissed her, don't remember), and then people turned on her.

Good point about people turning against Sara after the kiss. I think after Oliver's I love you and his dying thought of Felicity, Ray's popularity wouldn't survive getting together with Felicity, and I'm sure hers would take a huge hit too.  When Oliver got together with Sara, there was no spoken Olicity and Sara was an old lover. This situation is very different.

 

It's an interesting idea that they're waiting to see how 10 - 13 are received.  If they're not well received, it still gives the writers lots of time to make changes for the end of the season.

[ban1o]

I posted the full video of David at fan fest. He's pretty funny lol. 

[ban1o]

Wow he really emphasizes that something really big is going on with Thea. Maybe I spoke to soon about her crappy story-line this season lol. 

[looptab]

About Laurel being on the Team when Oliver returns, didn't Stephen Amell said something about how since he is not there when she suits up, he is going to kinda accept it when he comes back? Or have I imagined it?- (entirely possible lol). Sorry if this was discussed already, I need to catch up on the last few pages of this thread :)

[BkWurm1]

David also dropped a massive hint about the future of Starling city, he stated by the end of the season there will be three superheroes, other than Oliver,  protecting Starling. Which means Arsenal and Black Canary come into their own but leaves a question as to the third.

 

I said it a couple months back and I'll say it again. I'm betting the big season finale will be Oliver hanging up his quiver and walking away from being the Arrow, embracing being Oliver Queen full time.  It makes even more sense since then they get to prop up Laurel in the hero department and gradually over the season Oliver can learn that he is needed as both Arrow and Oliver and can find that middle ground.  I now suspect Ray will be around to some extent next season even if it's just mentions to keep the idea of there being plenty of protection for his city already. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Ariah]

David Ramsey is absolutelly hillarious! He could do a stand-up comedy hour.

 

Though I kind of cringed when he said "we had about 3-4 episodes without Stephen..." - I might have screamed "NOOO!", because co-inhabitant asked if I'm ok.

[chaos is welcome]

If Thea does become Speedy (which I am definitely not sure about) they should have her not use Arrows or that would make her really redundant. Speedy in some versions of the comics was good with swords as well. I'm also guessing in 10-13 they'll show Roy using non archery weapons as well.

It's ridiculous of me to hope that the three heroes Thea, Ray, and Roy. I realize this, and yet I hope.

[tv echo]

I'm not sure how I feel about Arrow becoming a multiple superhero show (4 superheroes!).  As I've said before, the more masked & costumed characters you have running around the city, the more it feels less like a real world and more like a comic-con fantasy world.  And the less real the world seems, then the less real the characters seem - which reduces the emotional stakes (at least for me).

 

I don't want to watch a show called Arrow that doesn't have Oliver in it.  But I also don't want to watch a show called Arrow that alternates stories among multiple superheroes.  It would be like adding the Flash to Arrow (instead of giving the Flash his own show) and still calling the show Arrow.

[Belinea]

Does DR mean that the producers don't know yet what to do with ATOM or does he just not know? Because they are filming 3x14 right now and his comment where to mean that there won't be a lot of real development for Ray Palmer. So what will they be doing with him? Some semi-important technology development for his suit? He does get hurt in an episode. Why? Will he now help Felicity in her struggles and that will be it?

[Ariah]

I kind of hope that the Sin remark about her being surprised by the 'new' Canary means she had just been talking to Sara two days ago -> hence, Sara's really alive. (Hey, one can hope, right?)

 

And the only justification for the ATOM existance this season would be if someone (maybe Felicity) is infected with the OMEGA virus and Palmer fight it on minature level. But that would actually mean him being literally inside her body, which is... just wrong.

[dtissagirl]

Does DR mean that the producers don't know yet what to do with ATOM or does he just not know? Because they are filming 3x14 right now and his comment where to mean that there won't be a lot of real development for Ray Palmer. So what will they be doing with him? Some semi-important technology development for his suit? He does get hurt in an episode. Why? Will he now help Felicity in her struggles and that will be it?

At the Flash/Arrow screening, Guggenheim said the ATOM suit wasn't ready, and then last week at another interview he said he hadn't discussed their plans for Crazy Eyes with Brandon Routh. At that point the actors already had the 314 script, so I think we can make an educated guess that he's not suiting up and fighting crime just yet.

Last season the original plan for Flash was that Arrow 220 was gonna be a backdoor pilot, before they scraped that and decided to go with a separate pilot. Then they used 216 and 217 as soft pilots for Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey. I think whatever their plans are for Atom, they're gonna involve giving him his episode -- with flashbacks to the fiancé getting fridged and everything -- as yet another soft pilot. Which episode it will be might be dependant on when the practical suit is ready to go.

[tv echo]

I just watched the hour-long video of David Ramsey at the Phoenix Comicon 2014 Fan Fest (posted in the Spoilers thread) - he's so funny and so insightful... the quotes are my rough transcriptions from the video...

 

On Felicity:  "But the show really, really needed Felicity.  And she was really a godsend - really, I mean, it was just me and Stephen brooding.  Every. Single. Week.  It was just - 'I'm gonna go kill 'im.'  'No, you can't.  Life is more important than that, Oliver.  You don't know what killing people does to the soul.'  So thank God for Felicity.  She came and brought some light to the Foundry.  Otherwise, it just would've been, you know...  And actually, to be honest with you, in terms of her personality, the character - her character's kind of more of a fit for The Flash - to be honest with you, just in terms of how they write, but, um, she's needed more where she is on Arrow.  Thank God for her."

 

Comparing Diggle to Oliver:  "Diggle is Oliver three years later.  He's already had his crucible.  I always say that.  His Afghanistan was his crucible, you know.  And Oliver has yet to, uh, fully adjust to his crucible, which was the island.  So ultimately that will be Oliver, right?  Ultimately, hopefully he will be who Diggle is - a guy who's, who's okay with fighting crime and putting his life on the line and has a wife and a child.... Did you see the look on Oliver's face when he came to the hospital and baby Sara was born and he was just like - (DR makes face) - I know, that was all Stephen face, he was like 'I want that, I want that.'  You know, so ultimately that's where that character's going and, you know, if everything works out, I guess it will be with Felicity."  (Audience cheers).

 

On Diggle:  "Diggle says the stuff that you guys are thinking.... And he's probably the most fully adjusted character on the show."

 

On Diggle's frequent frustration with Oliver's blind spots:  "'I can't believe I'm risking my life for this idiot.'  Sometimes I think he actually does think that."

 

On Diggle's attachment to Oliver:  "He's the brother that he couldn't save - Andy Diggle....  Andy's the brother that he couldn't save, and Oliver's the brother that he can save."

 

On the Suicide Squad:  "There's a big Suicide Squad episode coming up.  At least one, maybe even two, this upcoming second half of this season.  And HIVE, um, the fourth season."

 

On what would make Oliver happy:  "I think, for Diggle, he'd be like, 'Get w/Felicity, homie!'" (Audience cheers).

 

On why Diggle's an Olicity shipper:  "Diggle's always been about you have to get your humanity, right?  'You can't go around killing people, Oliver.  It breaks a part of your soul off.  Get with Felicity because you love her.' ...  The thing about Felicity, and I think the reason why he wants them together, is because Diggle has always tried to push Oliver into being, um, being more in touch with his humanity, and he is truly, honestly in love with Felicity.  So I think - unlike the other 578 women that he's slept with in Starling City.  (Audience and DR laugh).  I always laugh about that because I'm like, 'Felicity, I know you love Oliver, but didn't you see all these women he slept with?'... In terms of what he would want to make Oliver happy, I think he would want Oliver to embrace his humanity.  And I think a big part of that would be embracing the relationship that he could potentially have with Felicity."

 

OMG - you have to watch DR doing impressions of the other cast members (CH, SA, EBR, KC, PB) saying "I have to go to the store and get some milk" (starting at around 29:28 of the video)  LOL, his impression of KC saying that line is a blank face while he says the line, and then DR waves his hand over his face and says "no movement".  I can't believe he did that.

Edited December 14, 2014 by tv echo

[SonofaBiscuit]

After David Ramsey's comments about KC, I do look forward to watching this "emotional" scene between the two.  Rather, I should say that I look forward to reading everyone's reactions to the scene.  While I'm not excited about anything happening in episodes 10-14, I am looking forward to reading comments and reviews of the episodes.  I know that it's mean to wish bad things on people, but I really hope that these episodes are a complete mess and that the feedback is terrible.  Then maybe I won't ever have to endure something like that on this show ever again.

Edited December 14, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[JenMcSnark]

I'm watching in bits and just watched the first part.  DR says that (paraphrasing because I know I won't get it exactly) 'There are like four or five or whatever episodes, it was me, and Katie, and Colin - Colton, and Emily.  And we're in the Foundry and we're going out and fighting crime and we're by ourselves.  So there was like a real bonding period.  Just with the four of us, without Stephen.'

 

So yes, to InstaCanary joining Team Arrow for the next however many episodes.  

 

I also found the Colin/Colton thing interesting.  I don't think he would have said Colin had they not been working with Colin quite a bit.  And Diggle would never be in flashbacks with Tommy unless serious retcon.  So ZombieTommy might be a go as well.  

 

ETA:  Always with the editing!  Sorry!  Anyway, also I thought it was interesting that his mentioning the upcoming Black Canary got a pretty positive response from the audience.

 

I know that this board is negative towards this Black Canary BS, but there is a strong presence on Twitter/Tumblr that is pro KC and pro the new (and not improved) Black Canary. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by JenMcSnark

[ban1o]

I know I noticed the Colin thing but I think it was a honest mistake. They are currently filming an episode where he guest stars in. Has anyone been stalking his social media lol?  And yeah I guess Katie will be hanging out in the foundry as well. I also noticed when he said that Stephen came back he didn't mention Katie's name so maybe Laurel joins and then Oliver comes back and kicks her out.

 

And yeah I don't really have a huge problem with Laurel and I find this board hates on her too much. She does have a lot of fans which people here sometimes don't realize and almost act like she's universally disliked.   

Edited December 14, 2014 by ban1o

[Morrigan2575]

I only watched the impression bit and the final question so I'm only commenting on the hero bit.

My impression was that the "at least 3 legitimate heroes" protecting or saving Starling City was about Diggle/Felicity/Roy. For one thing I don't see an actor being that enthusiastic about a storyline that makes his character irrelevant simply because he's not in a costume. He also talks about the back half building towards Starling City being able to live outside of Oliver Queen.

I get that people automatically went legit heroes = Costumes but I don't think that's what he meant. I think he's talking about Team Arrow plus (Laurel and/or Ray) stepping up and coming into their own so that the burden isn't only on Arrow.

Unless the moral of S3 is that you're only a legit hero if you put on a funny costume but if you don't, it doesn't matter what you do or risk to save the city, you're nothing? If that's what they selling, glad I'm not watching.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

To be fair, the crowd response to Black Canary showing up, while louder than I would have expected, certainly didn't come close to the a full audience cheer like Ramsey got on other subjects.  It was a solid cheer, but plenty stayed silent during that exchange. 

 

One other notable thing Ramsey mentioned was that yeah, he thinks Diggle needs a mask and encouraged people to keep tweeting that. He seemed to think fans and social media had a big influence with the show runners. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Danny Franks]

I find it odd that they seem so intent on not giving Diggle, Felicity and Roy their time in the sun, while Oliver's not around. Oh sure, it's now apparently the Roy Trilogy (probably to be renamed the Diggle Trilogy before Christmas. Then finally the Felicity Trilogy, when they're really desperate), but they've already hinted at throwing Laurel in there, and maybe 50 Shades too. Probably plenty of Merlyn and who knows, maybe Thea might even get a few scenes.

 

But these guys have professed to know that the heart of their show is Team Arrow, yet they have no faith (or is it no desire?) to let the rest of Team Arrow pick up the slack in Oliver's absence. Why not? Just how incriminating are those photographs that Katie Cassidy must have of Guggenheim? I know Cassidy has fans, but for the life of me, I cannot understand what attachment they could possibly have to the character of Laurel. She's just the worst. And not even like Britta is the worst. Laurel genuinely is a dreadful person. They should have found some balls back in season 2, and followed through on that brief promise she showed as an obsessed antagonist for the Arrow.

[dtissagirl]

After David Ramsey's comments about KC, I do look forward to watching this "emotional" scene between the two.  Rather, I should say that I look forward to reading everyone's reactions to the scene.  While I'm not excited about anything happening in episodes 10-14, I am looking forward to reading comments and reviews of the episodes.  I know that it's mean to wish bad things on people, but I really hope that these episodes are a complete mess and that the feedback is terrible.  Then maybe I won't ever have to endure something like that on this show ever again.

 

Yeah, I'm sort of in the same place. I'm dreading the Black Canary storyline for several different reasons, but I'm also sort of anticipating the reactions, and the potential for endless mocking. I'm a great believer in hate-watching, so this might just be right up my alley... Except Laurel usually bores me instead of enraging me, so it might just not happen? IDK.

 

I'm hate-watching everything related to Crazy Eyes with all my heart, though.

Edited December 14, 2014 by dancingnancy

[catrox14]

 

And yeah I don't really have a huge problem with Laurel and I find this board hates on her too much. She does have a lot of fans which people here sometimes don't realize and almost act like she's universally disliked.

 

 Whether she has a lot of fans IMO doesn't mean she is necessarily playing a good character or playing it well. I don't want her in the Foundry. I don't want her as BC. But if that is the direction they are going, I think she is still fair game for opinion, both positive and negative.

Edited December 14, 2014 by catrox14

[ban1o]

 Whether she has a lot of fans IMO doesn't mean she is necessarily playing a good character or playing it well. I don't want her in the Foundry. I don't want her as BC. But if that is the direction they are going, I think she is still fair game for opinion, both positive and negative.

I never said people couldn't have negative opinion but a lot of people think her as BC will destroy the show or something or the rating will plummet which I don't really think is the case. I didn't say she was a good character either (I think she has a lot of problems as a character). I just don't hate her that much lol. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by ban1o

[catrox14]

My opinion is unlikely to change because to this point I don't think she's proven capable of pulling off the badass superhero. I might be proven wrong. But I certainly do not look forward to her taking up 3 episodes in favor of Oliver...which I realize is not necessarily IN FAVOR of Oliver, but he'll conveniently be gone and she'll be trying superhero  it.  Color me skeptical based on precedence, IMO

Edited December 14, 2014 by catrox14

[wonderwall]

I never said people couldn't have negative opinion but a lot of people think her as BC will destroy the show or something or the rating will plummet which I don't really think is the case. I didn't say she was a good character either (I think she has a lot of problems as a character). I just don't hate her that much lol. 

I don't think her being BC will destroy the show or the ratings to be quite honest. But if the show does focus on her and ignore the other aspects of the show that works (which imo it never will) then I believe the show would suffer. But that's just my opinion. 

 

I used to hate Laurel because of my own issues that I've posted again and again on this site, but now, I just feel indifferent I suppose. It irks me when she breaks the pacing of an episode, but it also irks me when the show expects us to see her as a lead character yet is never an integral part of the plot (aka she didn't even help find Sara's killer. She focused on it for an episode or two and then just stopped for some reason to do her own thing). Right now I just feel like she's a superfluous character who genuinely adds nothing to the show nor this season. Now that I think about it, all else equal not much would change if Laurel never existed, except maybe Quentin would know about Sara.  

 

I don't hate her, but I wouldn't miss her if she left. Maybe these three episodes will help us see why Laurel should be important to the show? Why she's integral to the story and what she adds to the show. I actually hope they do this because otherwise I could never take Laurel seriously and will always think of her as a hindrance and a non-entity. 

[BkWurm1]

I used to hate Laurel because of my own issues that I've posted again and again on this site, but now, I just feel indifferent I suppose.

 

"The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference."

 

I think the show runners would prefer hate to indifference.  I'm not there yet, but I look forward to the transformation. 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I don't think the ratings will suffer that much - no more so than they usually would this time of year. People will for sure tune in for 3x10 to find out what happened to Oliver. Most people know he's going to come back sooner or later, so I think that regardless of what they do with what character, people will continue to tune in, because they'll keep expecting Oliver to return. 

 

I don't hate Laurel - I just find her utterly useless, and whenever there's a chance for her to not be utterly useless in the narrative, the writers manage to bungle it. There was a chance for some real character growth for her after Sara died, but what is she doing? Is she actually looking for Sara's killer? Nah. She's taking boxing lessons to "avenge" her, even though it seems like being a vigilante is more important to her, so...what's the point? Did they take this opportunity to have this tragedy bond the Lance family closer together, which would've been nice to see since the last one drove them so far apart? Nah, Laurel keeps it a secret. Only not so much, because the only person who doesn't know is the one person who should. The whole "it's a secret, but don't tell anyone," nonsense just makes her look like a complete asshole. If I have to watch her, I'd rather her not be so useless/annoying, so...here's hoping she stops sucking in 3B (lmao, lmao, I know)

 

To keep this on topic, I think DR's "Colin" mention was a slip, too. Because four of them would be Diggle, Laurel, Felicity and Roy. Unless he's mathematically challenged like SA, which is possible, I guess. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by apinknightmare

[ban1o]

Odd question but in the article posted in SPOILERS about David Ramsey appearance at the Pheonix comic-con it said he addressed Roy but in the actual video I didn't hear anything about Roy. Which is weird because everything else in the article was in the video. Was that just a mistake by the writer or am I partially deaf or something lol.?  

[JenMcSnark]

To keep this on topic, I think DR's "Colin" mention was a slip, too. Because four of them would be Diggle, Laurel, Felicity and Roy. Unless he's mathematically challenged like SA, which is possible, I guess. 

 

True, but I didn't think ZombieTommy would be in the Foundry helping Team Arrow + InstaCanary.  I just thought it might be telling because he works with Colton all the time and Colin...never? He'd be more inclined to remember Colton's name in those circumstances. 

 

So it seems a weird slip to be completely accidental.  Just seems like he's been filming with Colin.  And I don't see how it could possibly be flashbacks.  Oh, I guess it could be flashbacks to S1. *shrugs*

[ban1o]

 

I don't hate Laurel - I just find her utterly useless, and whenever there's a chance for her to not be utterly useless in the narrative, the writers manage to bungle it. There was a chance for some real character growth for her after Sara died, but what is she doing? Is she actually looking for Sara's killer? Nah. She's taking boxing lessons to "avenge" her, even though it seems like being a vigilante is more important to her, so...what's the point? Did they take this opportunity to have this tragedy bond the Lance family closer together, which would've been nice to see since the last one drove them so far apart? Nah, Laurel keeps it a secret. Only not so much, because the only person who doesn't know is the one person who should. The whole "it's a secret, but don't tell anyone," nonsense just makes her look like a complete asshole. If I have to watch her, I'd rather her not be so useless/annoying, so...here's hoping she stops sucking in 3B (lmao, lmao, I know)

 

Her telling Thea was really weird a dumb but I think the point of the scene was to establish that Thea didn't remember killing Sara? But yeah the whole secret thing is dumb. I was so sure Lance would find out in the fall finale and I really don't get it. I don't think I'll buy her character as BC but I guess I'll just wait and see. At least she improved physically for the role I guess.  

 

 

 

To keep this on topic, I think DR's "Colin" mention was a slip, too. Because four of them would be Diggle, Laurel, Felicity and Roy. Unless he's mathematically challenged like SA, which is possible, I guess. 

Yeah agree. I just don't see them doing zombie Tommy.

 

So it seems a weird slip to be completely accidental.  Just seems like he's been filming with Colin.  And I don't see how it could possibly be flashbacks.  Oh, I guess it could be flashbacks to S1. *shrugs*

 

They could just be friends and he made a mistake :P. I know Colton barely filmed with EBR at all for the first 2 seasons but somehow they were BFF's lol. But I guess it's possible they could be filming together. I guess we'll wait and see lol. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by ban1o