Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ban1o]

I'll laugh if when Oliver comes back from the dead Laurel is all "But no-one told me he was dead!" and Diggle says "We were worried you might have a heart attack."

Lmao this is brilliant.

[NumberCruncher]

But I'm not arguing that Diggle's role hasn't decreased? It just doesn't make sense to me that his role would change (the costumed hero taking the lead, him being backup), just because Oliver is gone, which is what I thought you were arguing?

My point was that Roy was no more significant to Oliver's work than was Diggle, and that up until this season, Diggle had just as much hand-to-hand (albeit generally with a pistol) action as Roy does now. That stopped this season and so I'm not super happy that Roy is suddenly Oliver's go-to replacement just because he's the "costumed hero". Then again, I hate the whole idea of having Oliver gone in the first place and having that happen is the whole reason why I'm so bugged we're even having this conversation. It's nothing against you or your position--it's just crappy storytelling for a show that's supposed to be about the Arrow.

[statsgirl]

I'm just hoping that Roy and Laurel really screw up in the field, especially Laurel. And then Diggle can come in and clean up.

 

In that clip, Barrowman says that he's got one more scene to film for 3x09 and it's high up and cold.  He also said that he doesn't read the script for the next episode (3x10) until he's finished shooting the last one.  Given that he wasn't in the mountain scene in the cut that was shown, does that mean that it's his body we see in the promo?

[ban1o]

 

In that clip, Barrowman says that he's got one more scene to film for 3x09 and it's high up and cold.  He also said that he doesn't read the script for the next episode (3x10) until he's finished shooting the last one.  Given that he wasn't in the mountain scene in the cut that was shown, does that mean that it's his body we see in the promo?

Maybe the scene was deleted

[apinknightmare]

My point was that Roy was no more significant to Oliver's work than was Diggle, and that up until this season, Diggle had just as much hand-to-hand (albeit generally with a pistol) action as Roy does now. That stopped this season and so I'm not super happy that Roy is suddenly Oliver's go-to replacement just because he's the "costumed hero". 

 

Right, but Diggle has never once shown any desire to be the frontman of that operation, so yeah, maybe we should agree to disagree. :)

Edited December 12, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Soulfire]

I'm wondering if they won't do something like Malcolm finding Oliver's body and it turns out the extreme cold preserved his body and stopped him from dying by 'freezing' him or some bullshit like that. Malcolm gives him whatever the green liquid is to jump-start him, then the magical herbs Oliver packed into his duffel bag heals his wounds. Or something.

[ban1o]

Right, but Diggle has never once shown any desire to be the frontman of that operation, so yeah, maybe we should agree to disagree. :)

I agree with you. Even in season 1 Diggle was never the frontman of operations. He worked more beind the scenes. Roy on the other hand was obsessed with being a crime fighting vigilante since season 1. Edited December 13, 2014 by Lisin

[Genki]

I feel that the whole who killed Sara plot is not fully resolved. Crack theories ahead:

 

Ra's asked/forced Malcolm to have Sara killed

 

Maybe Ra's and Merlin had a deal going and Sara was the cost.

 

Ra's released Malcolm from the league, he may be pissed that Malcolm broke some code, but there has to be a reason why Malcolm was the only person to leave the league (pre Heir to the Demon). What is their relationship?

 

I think Malcolm offered Oliver to Ra's as a protege or something in return for a pardon (or Zombie Tommy which Ra's has been holding over Malcolm).

 

Some sort of scenario like this makes sense of all the little niggles I have with what have been shown so far.

 

• The change in Ra's about Sara since 3.04 to 3.09
• Sara's greeting to her killer, it still feels off, even though it is revealed that it is Malcolm and Thea there.
• I thought Malcolm saw Oliver like a pseudo son, why would he goad him into killing Ra's (which I maintain he knew Oliver wouldn't win)
• Why set Thea up to be a killer?
• Why does Malcolm even want Sara dead? It would have been different if he caught her tracking him and killed her on the spur of the moment, but this seems really elaborate for no reason. Setting up Thea, pissing off Nyssa, surely he could have slipped her surveillance and gone back to Corto Maltese, why did he come back to Starling anyway? 1 day before Sara, why did she think he would be there...

 

Also since there seems to be a deleted scene with Malcolm on the Mountain in 3.09, but that could just be Malcolm going to the neutral site to see the results of his bizarre machinations.

 

Also I think Felicity, "borrowed" Argus' satellite again and that is why she knows where Oliver is, but I don't like this theory because then she would have watched him die.

[apinknightmare]

Also I think Felicity, "borrowed" Argus' satellite again and that is why she knows where Oliver is, but I don't like this theory because then she would have watched him die.

 

This is the only way I would accept her or Diggle believing he was dead without a body. Although...then they'd go get him, right? Surely they wouldn't allow him to just be dead there on the side of a mountain. Or they would see that someone had come to get him. IDK (I don't like the thought of her watching him die either). 

 

Although...it does make sense. Lyla did ask her if she had hacked into an A.R.G.U.S. satellite in the last ep - maybe that was for a reason.

[ostentatious]

Maybe the scene was for use in a future ep but while they had the entire crew up there already they brought Barrowman in to make the best use of resources, and to ensure the same weather conditions. Like if the scene is in 310, that would make perfect sense. He was kind of talking about 310 in that segment, that he usually doesn't read ahead, and then started talking about going up the mountain to film.

Edited December 13, 2014 by ostentatious

[Soulfire]

Also I think Felicity, "borrowed" Argus' satellite again and that is why she knows where Oliver is, but I don't like this

theory because then she would have watched him die.

 

Speaking of -- MG's tweet about Felicity not looking for Oliver because 'she'll know where he is... or where he's not' doesn't even make sense because Oliver never actually told her exactly where he was going. He only said 'a neutral site'...

[apinknightmare]

Speaking of -- MG's tweet about Felicity not looking for Oliver because 'she'll know where he is... or where he's not' doesn't even make sense because Oliver never actually told her exactly where he was going. He only said 'a neutral site'...

 

It makes sense if she put a tracker on him or hacked a satellite to find him. Or if "where he is" means dead and "where he isn't" means alive, haha. 

[statsgirl]

. Or if "where he is" means dead and "where he isn't" means alive, haha. 

 

That's a bit too meta for Guggenheim though.  I"m hoping it's because she put a tracker on him.  Slipped something into his pants during the forehead kiss.

 

Barrowman said he hadn't read ep 3x10 when he was getting ready to film the mountain scene. But whether it's in 3x09 or for a later episode, there must be some reason why Malcolm is on that mountain.  Since Oliver couldn't defeat Malcolm himself, Malcolm would have known that Oliver couldn't defeat Ra's, in which case Malcolm would still be on Ra's hit list..  Then why set up this elaborate plot?

 

 

I think Malcolm offered Oliver to Ra's as a protege or something in return for a pardon (or Zombie Tommy which Ra's has been holding over Malcolm).

Zombie Tommy sort of makes sense but not if Ra's is still trying to make Malcolm pay for the Glades and he was in 3x04, Ra's didn't care about Sara's killer, he wanted Malcolm.  I'd go with Oliver as a protege, especially given the summer spoiler that Ra's thinks Oliver could be better if he didn't have his humanity, but he seemed to be definitely killing Oliver there, especially with that prayer which sounds like a benediction for someone about to die.

 

Do we know Oliver is back in Starling City in 3x12, or could that be an appearance in Nanda Parbat? Or will we have flashbacks later in the season to what Oliver did during his missing months?

 

So many questions..... I hope they don't screw up the answers.

[wonderwall]

Yep. Felicity FOR SURE doesn't know Oliver's alive... At least this is what the tweet leads me to believe. I sure hope not though. 

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/543588836731666433

Edited December 13, 2014 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

So Felicity thinks Oliver is dead, a four part Canary arc, lots of Roy fighting and Ray builds his suit.  I just can't wait.

 (Except not.  How much does Guggenheim want to keep me from watching this show?)

[apinknightmare]

Yep. Felicity FOR SURE doesn't know Oliver's alive... At least this is what the tweet leads me to believe. I sure hope not though. 

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/543588836731666433

 

They're all going to think he's dead at some point, otherwise the dramatic payoff is nil and then what would be the point? And I think that's kind of a troll answer, haha.

 

I want to know if this person who doubts that he's dead thinks he's alive all along, or if they're going to find something that leads them to believe that he's alive after they thought he was dead. Or is it just going to be a "feeling," like Dinah Lance v. 2.0. Oh god, maybe it is Laurel.

 

MG tweeted that the person who tells them that Oliver's dead "makes sense." I wonder if Diggle got Lyla to track him or if Maseo infiltrated the league for A.R.G.U.S., and she's the one who delivers the news? If there's no body, either Lyla has to tell them or they have to have seen him "die" via a satellite or something. Otherwise I'm crying foul, because who else would they trust to be right? 

Edited December 13, 2014 by apinknightmare

[HighHopes]

I wonder if it won't be Thea who doubts that he's dead. Dinah said that the first time Sara "died" she didn't feel it and now she does. When Oliver returned in season one, Thea said "I knew it. I knew you weren't dead" (or something like that). So she too had that feeling. And we are supposed to get some Thea/Felicity scenes- so I wonder if Felicity fills Thea in on everything because she believes Oliver is dead. Then Thea starts to put everything together (with some help from Sin in 3x12 too)... 

[chaos is welcome]

Oh man I love the idea of Thea having doubt and going to felicity. Which means we will prob never, ever get it.

[Kymmi]

Yep. Felicity FOR SURE doesn't know Oliver's alive... At least this is what the tweet leads me to believe. I sure hope not though. 

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/543588836731666433

 

I don't read it that way.  He was describing Olicity in 3B not Felicity.  In mourning is their relationship?  God I hate this show.  

[chaos is welcome]

I don't read it that way. He was describing Olicity in 3B not Felicity. In mourning is their relationship? God I hate this show.

If you are correct, and he means in 3b as a whole, to me this says

1. They actually are dumb and have felicity hook up with Ray

2. They will have Oliver be complicit in faking his death which will make felicity flip her lid

3. However they revive Oliver effectively kills the "Oliver Queen side of himself

4. Someone else is going to die (which given the death to ep ratio I calculated on the bitterness thread, should be happening on or around ep 16.

None of these are acceptable. Let's hope he was reading the question as carefully as he did the one about laurel appearing in flash part of cross. Mg, pls stop.

Edited December 13, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[Starfish35]

LOL at Marc's "one word answer" about Tommy's return. Nothing we didn't know already. Tommy is in the episode somehow - we knew that from SA.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

From all the tweets about Felicity, I feel like we're about to get a Felicity who's on a warpath. Hell hath no fury like a bitch with wifi scorned. 

[statsgirl]

Can anyone explain to me what's going to go on?

 

From the spoilers, we have it's a 4 episode Laurel/BC cycle.... no, it's three episodes where Roy will "take center stage" .... and there will be lots of Malcolm, including on top of a mountain and scenes with Roy. Slade Wilson will be in 3x14 and Tommy will be in 3x14 "ish"  Sara will be in 3x13 but not in flashbacks.

 

Someone will doubt that Oliver is dead.

 

In terms of Team Arrow, Felicity will not be looking for Oliver "because she knows where he is and where he isn't", her reaction to the news will be "epic",  there will be lots of Diggle/Felicity scenes coming up, Felicity will blame someone for Oliver's death. There will be Felicity/Thea scenes. 

 

And MG's favorite moment from an upcoming episode will be "I don't want to be a woman you love".

 

Can anyone make sense of this?  Especially the last, unless it's someone saying it to Malcolm.  (Oh, how I miss Moira!)

Edited December 13, 2014 by statsgirl

[Ariah]

 

I don't want to be a woman you love

At first, I thought it can be said meaning "I wouldn't like to be in the shoes of the woman you love" (like Tatsu, taken by China White, for example)

But actually, the grammar suggests it's said by a woman to a person loving her. It's "I don't want you to love me".

So, who can be saying this?

a) Felicity (because Guggenheim often twitts her words)

-> to Ray (I don't want to be a woman you love, but your professional colleague)

-> to Oliver's memory (I don't want to be a woman you love if it means you're dead)

 

b) Laurel

-> to Ted (but he's not in the next episode)

-> to Oliver's memory (doesn't make sense at all)

 

c) Thea (let's pretend she's not a girl but a woman ;))

-> to the DJ (ha!)

-> to Roy (no can do)

 

d) Lyla (a long shot)

-> to Diggle (doesn't make sense)

 

e) Nyssa (the longest shot)

-> ...and I have no idea to whom she may speak these lines.

 

Are there any other women on the show? (No, because they've killed them). Unless the line is from the flashback. Or EP's lie and we actually have scenes with delirious Oliver, seeing drug-induced visions in which Felicity tells him she doesn't want to be a woman he loves (and these visions twist his mind around, so that once he's back in Starling, he's unhinged when it comes to Felicity... because there must be an obstacle after an obstacle on the road to romance)

[chaos is welcome]

That newest dialog tease concerns me. It makes me 99 percent sure Oliver is going to do something epicly stupid, like my pet theory of having actually conspired to fake his death with Malcolm for reasons (element of surprise? I don't know, but who on earth really thought he could kill ras? Def not Malcolm)

Also, I had a horrible (like sit up in bed in the middle of the night....this is why I really need to quit this show) thought.

If they Lazarus pit him and he goes nuts and bumps uglies with buckle canary on his return, because again, reasons.

The later is complete paranoia on my part. The first seems more likely. Or (please please please) it's f to Ray, or Thea to Malcolm, but ugh.

I suppose it could also be laurel to Oliver, for again, reasons. (Platonic love)... Don't put on all those buckles, I love you and don't want this life for you.

And if it IS Oliver and felicity? How do we get back from that exactly? I don't want to see felicity crushed to the point she declares she doesn't want to love him because it's too painful.

At any rate, thank you mark for taking the first excitement I have managed to find (however small) for the back half of the season, putting it under your boot and grinding it into the ground, it lasted ohhh, 48 hours. After the buckle canary reveal I had to stay away for awhile because we all are making ourselves crazy with spec, (or at least I make myself crazy), plus I couldn't bring myself to gaf with all that happening. Jokes on me, I guess. Off to the bitterness thread for me again.

Edited December 13, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[apinknightmare]

Without context, I think that quote could come from a few people under a variety of situations that aren't gloom and doom (or ultimately gloom and doom). This dialogue has to be from 3x10-3x15 to 16-ish, right? Not sure how far ahead they write.

 

Could Oliver get dosed with Vertigo again? Could it be a Vertigo hallucination of Felicity talking to him? That could show us his changing fears. 
Oliver used that exact phrase about Sara - could it be a Vertigo hallucination of her, voicing his fear about what happens to the women he loves? 

Could be Laurel to him after he finds out that she's slipping on a bondage uni and going out to fight crime. Seems like another, "I don't want to be a woman you love - they die" type of thing.

 

Could be Felicity to Oliver in a moment of anger, although there could be a "but" after that that explains things. Could be Felicity to Ray, but I doubt it. 

 

It doesn't worry me too much, I guess. MG is in the business of riling up shippers because he knows they're (or we're, since I'm one of them) a nervous bunch and it gets people talking, which is good for him and the show. This dialogue tease aside, I'm kind of exited at the prospect of getting vengeful Felicity. I love the idea of her using Ray and his A.T.O.M. suit to try to exact revenge on Malcolm (if that's who she blames for Oliver's death), or Ra's, I guess. I suspect we'll get a romance between her and Ray after Oliver comes back, which...ick, but I know it's coming. Hopefully the show surprises me and it either a) doesn't or b) isn't all that serious or short-lived. If I have to watch her with another guy, I'd rather it not be Ray.

 

Back to that quote and how it could be linked to Felicity, I'm guessing the Lazarus Pit or however he's revived could be a contingency that he didn't let anyone know about (which would be wise, in case it didn't work) in case he died? The only way he could've "faked" it is if Ra's is in on it, which I guess he could be, considering he didn't stab him through the heart and only kicked him a little ways down, but...eh, the faking theories get really convoluted and I don't have the brain power to think about it at this time of morning. Nyssa and/or Maseo could've been in on it too, but I wouldn't consider that a fake so much as a contingency. 

Edited December 13, 2014 by apinknightmare

[chaos is welcome]

I should clarify, not so much fake his death, but go in knowing he would probably be close to death and probably planning to have Malcolm revive him as his contingency.

You are right about the vertigo thing, I didn't think of that and could see that fitting.

[Ariah]

Another take on the quote, from a purely romantic POV:

 

Felicity to Oliver, post-mortem, thinking he is trully dead and devastated about it (according to Guggenheim she will blame someone for Oliver's death - what if she blames herself?)

 

"I don't want to be a woman you love. I want to be a woman who loves you."

 

I just imagined her talking like this to his costume or at the graveside. What is this show doing to me?...

 

(another scenario is the use of an indefinite article in the quote: "I don't want to be a woman you love. I want to be THE woman.")

 

Also, speculation on the matter who will bring the news to the Team Arrow - it must be someone they know for it to be credible (Maseo they do not know). Nyssa - could be too obvious. Malcolm - would be dramatically good. But how about Thea? What if Thea finds out that her brother was the Arrow and died protecting her and she goes to the only people who can understand her pain and confusion?...

Edited December 13, 2014 by Ariah

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh, Guggenheim.  Nobody knows how to make my enthusiasm plummet like you do (not that I have any right now, but still).  I'm just going to think happy thoughts.  I'm imagining Lyla and Diggle exchanging wedding vows, "I don't want to be a woman you love.  I want to be your wife, Johnny."  Then the camera zooms in on Oliver and Felicity sitting next to each other in the crowd.  Oliver takes Felicity's hand and the two exchange a long look, both smile, and then Felicity sheepishly looks away while Oliver continues to stare at her.  Yep, that's totally how it's happening.  

[tv echo]

I've been thinking maybe Sin is coming back so that Thea can realize something is wrong with her. Maybe Sin and Thea met the day Sara died, but Thea doesn't remember it because MIND CONTROL, and if Sin goes "hey, I haven't seen you since that day you were acting super weird in October", that's how Thea starts to figure out something shady is going on with her.

 

Bonus storyline points if Thea goes to Felicity for help sorting it all out.

Has Thea ever met Felicity (other than that casual introduction by Oliver in the hospital as a friend when they were visiting Walter)?  Why would she know to go to Felicity for this kind of help?  Thea may only know Felicity as Oliver's former EA.  Maybe Felicity will be the one to tell Thea about Oliver, while Diggle will be the one to tell Laurel.

So someone (per MG's tweet) will doubt Oliver is dead.

 

I'd love that it's Diggle, Felicity, Thea and Roy.

 

But it will probably be Laurel because she feels it in her bones.

 

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Laurel: "I don't believe Oliver's dead because I know him to his bones.  And his bones tell me that he's not dead.... Of course, his bones did lie to me before when he went off on that boat trip with my sister, and I thought he was dead then.  And his bones didn't tell me he was the vigilante, so I had to find out from Slade Wilson.  But that's all past.  Now his bones and I are BFFs."

 

I hope Marc Singer's acting has improved since Beastmaster and V.

 

Right after watching "The Climb", I had some incentive again for tuning in to Episode 10 when it returned in January.  But with each successive spoiler coming out lately, my enthusiasm is plummeting... again.

Edited December 13, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

There could be more to the quote.

I don't want to be the woman you love from afar.

I don't want to be the woman you love but can't be with.

I don't want to be the woman you love and not be with because it hurts too much

I'm sure there are more possibilities, assuming it's Felicity to Oliver that actually moves the relationship forward. Of course there's also the possibility of them going the dumbass bullshit angst route. This would put the breaks on Olicity (again) so they could stretch it out to the series finale.

As has been pointed out on several occasions, these EPs pretty much only write for premiere, mid season finale and finale. Everything else is either filler, delay or setup.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Has Thea ever met Felicity (other than that casual introduction by Oliver in the hospital as a friend when they were visiting Walter)? Why would she know to go to Felicity for this kind of help? Thea may only know Felicity as Oliver's former EA.

I wonder who exactly she thinks Felicity is-she saw her at Verdant hanging out with Roy in 3x08. Does she not wonder why Oliver's former EA is hanging out with Roy or how she even knows him?

Edited December 13, 2014 by apinknightmare

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm pretty excited for the Felicity and Thea scenes that are supposed to be coming up. And it makes so much sense for these two women to bond together. Something occurred to me reading the spoilers/discussions, though. F and T had a blink of a moment in 3x08 when the teams were at the bar. We know Thea knows Felicity used to be Oliver's EA. Thea looked at Felicity briefly when she was asking if they were OK and Felicity shook her head. So there's recognition there. But isn't she wondering how Roy and Felicity know each other? Was there a scene were they all got introduced that I missed?

 

ETA: Wow, pinknightmare, that just freaky!

Edited December 13, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[ostentatious]

But the line says "a" woman, not the. That is a crucial difference.

Don't have any idea what it means, but IMO something hangs on that word choice.

And really, Felicity was Oliver's EA, thus from Thea's POV had a clear relationship with him, when Thea left town. She hasn't been back that long, and it's only the last three eps that she's been back at Verdant. So, she really may not have noticed any hanging out on their part.

Edited December 13, 2014 by ostentatious

[chaos is welcome]

I wonder who exactly she thinks Felicity is-she saw her at Verdant hanging out with Roy in 3x08. Does she not wonder why Oliver's former EA is hanging out with Roy or how she even knows him?

That scene very much made me wonder what Thea thinks of Felicity. Because Thea knows Roy plays with the Arrow, and that Felicity used to be Oliver's EA. Does she wonder why the two of them hang out? Weren't there a few scenes in s2 where Oliver, dig, Roy, and felicity would pow wow at a table at verdant? What DOES Thea make of this?

Could be she confesses it to Roy, and who did Roy go to with his troubles? felicity. Maybe he'll entice Thea to do the same, or be the go between.

Edited December 13, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[quarks]

Given Oliver's history with women AND his current tendency to only say "I love you" when he's either sending Felicity into a trap or marching off to fight an immortal dude who keeps little mountain places around so he can have duels and then toss people off cliffs, I can actually see Felicity saying, "I don't want to be a woman you love."  It's dangerous and it makes you cry right next to expensive computer equipment that doesn't do well with saline.

 

That said, given that Oliver's state of mind post-dead is unclear AND Vertigo is coming back AND presumably Thea is still dealing with that annoying DJ (pray, pray have this line be Thea kicking that guy off the show) AND given that it's very possible this is a bad guy talking about love to either Laurel or Felicity, there's still a lot of possibilities/contexts for that line.

[ban1o]

On twitter Guggenheim replied to a questions and said there were a lot of Diggle/Felicity scenes coming. I'm glad because I miss their scenes.

 

 

That said, given that Oliver's state of mind post-dead is unclear AND Vertigo is coming back AND presumably Thea is still dealing with that annoying DJ (pray, pray have this line be Thea kicking that guy off the show) AND given that it's very possible this is a bad guy talking about love to either Laurel or Felicity, there's still a lot of possibilities/contexts for that line.

I think the DJ is staying for a while. Colton posted a picture with Willa and Austin Butler (the guy who plays the DJ) while they were shooting episode 14. I was hoping he was just fodder for Malcolm to kill off lol.  Maybe he's a spy or something.

Edited December 13, 2014 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

To be honest, even with MGs twitter teases, I'm actually getting more and more excited for season 3B. I think it's because I've sort of resigned myself to watch the episodes online and fast forward all the parts that don't interest me :p I'm really looking forward to Team Arrow's reactions to Oliver's death. I want to see who Felicity blames for it, who Diggle blames for it. I want to know if there will be a lot of tension between the members of Team Arrow, and if Felicity will help Ray build his suit. The only Thea spoiler/ish we got is that Felicity has a lot of scenes with her coming up and that makes me excited too :) 

 

The quote posted by MG "I don't want to be a woman you love" is so ambiguous, I don't think we know the context of what that quote is in so it's not bothering me. If Felicity says it in a moment of heartbreak then I can't wait to see Emily perform it because it'd be devastating. Some people say things they don't mean in desperate times. I really hope that Felicity and Ray don't get romantically closer at all. I don't mind Ray when he's not following Felicity, but I don't really see them having a romantic relationship. I strictly see them as friends. 

[Belinea]

At the end of the day I just want Oliver back. Not the zombie version or the 'only' Arrow version but Oliver. Even though I love some of the other characters, I would prefer the Oliver-less time to be as short as possible. Because with mourning Sara, and now mourning Oliver the show has become quite depressing. And while Arrow has never been the lightest show, a little bit of positivity would not hurt the show this season. Oliver has lost everything this season and now that he did indeed hit rock bottom I want him to get on top of things. 

 

As for the teases: Sounds like Felicity will be sad and mad. She will be sad and the fans will be mourning Olicity. At least that is what I took away from some of the spoilers.

As for the script tease: It definitely fits Felicity. But saying it after Oliver gets back seems harsh. (in reality I don't want to imagine her saying it after he gets back; i actually don't want her to be the one to say it at all)

[ban1o]

I'm actually looking forward to the 2nd half of the season. I think it's interesting storytelling to remove Oliver from the picture and having Team Arrow deal with him being gone. It's like will their be tension, will the lack of Oliver make them go their separate ways? How will they mourn?  Will Felicity try and help Ray Palmer with his initiative?  How will Thea react. What will happen to Malcolm and Thea's relationship be. Will Starling City be able to sustain without the Arrow? Him being gone allows the characters to develop a little bit outside of Oliver. Also I'm interested in how he survives. How till "dying" or  almost dying change Oliver. It will only be for a few episodes so it's not like it's for an extended period of time. If he was gone for like 6 or 7 episodes I would be upset . But it looks like he will return in 3x12 which isn't very long and I think there's the possibility for some very good episodes if the writers do it well..

Edited December 13, 2014 by ban1o

[Sunshine]

I think the tease "I don't want to be a woman you love" is Felicity to Oliver.

Season 3's theme is identity. One of the questions they posed preseason for Felicity was (paraphrasing)"is being Oliver's crush object enough?" Even if upon Oliver's return he wants to be with Felicity he may still reject life outside the Mission. The Mission is important to her but so are the other things she wants. She wants to be Felicity. She has a successful career now. She's probably not willing to throw it away because she loves Oliver. I think this is at least part of what will force Oliver to start putting together the pieces of Oliver Queen's life. Maybe he starts or buys a business? Felicity loves him but she wants a full life. I think he's going to have to work to get her. Both of their arcs for the season is "can I have everything I want?"

Not to mention, look at how he has treated all the women he has loved.

[statsgirl]

Thea must really have blinkers on if she hasn't wondered how Felicity, Oliver's former EA, and Roy know each other well enough to hang out at Verdant together with friends.

 

I haven't heard lately that Katrina Law is on set so while it makes sense for Nyssa to tell them, it's more likely Malcolm, especially if he was supposed to be on the mountain witnessing the duel.  I also wonder about the timing -- assuming that the show keeps to its usual hiatus time jumps, on Jan 21 will we see someone tell Team Arrow that Oliver is dead after he's been missing for 7 weeks, or will we see them already dealing with the knowledge of his death?  And who is going to tell Thea?

 

If Felicity does get vengeful, will it be towards Malcolm (it was spoiled they have scenes together -- that could be epic), or will there be some for Thea too, so blind and who Oliver died to save.

 

 

Felicity to Oliver, post-mortem, thinking he is trully dead and devastated about it (according to Guggenheim she will blame someone for Oliver's death - what if she blames herself?)

 

"I don't want to be a woman you love. I want to be a woman who loves you."

I just imagined her talking like this to his costume or at the graveside. What is this show doing to me?...

I like that image of her talking to his costume "I don't want to be a woman you love.. and then die for.  I want you here with me so that I can love you back."

 

No gravestone please -- been there, done that.

 

 

At the end of the day I just want Oliver back. Not the zombie version or the 'only' Arrow version but Oliver. Even though I love some of the other characters, I would prefer the Oliver-less time to be as short as possible. Because with mourning Sara, and now mourning Oliver the show has become quite depressing. And while Arrow has never been the lightest show, a little bit of positivity would not hurt the show this season. 

Hell yes!

Edited December 13, 2014 by statsgirl

[SonofaBiscuit]

Could be that Barrowman was filming scenes of Merlyn watching the duel in 3x09.  Let's say that he captures video evidence of the whole thing going down, too.  He could take the video back and show it to Thea (who would then tell Roy), or he could even show it to Team Arrow (I don't recall if he knows who any of the members of Team Arrow are, though).  So the team sees the video evidence and they believe that Oliver is dead.

 

Then, Sin shows up in episode 12 with some info or evidence that shows that Malcolm doctored the video of Thea shooting Sara full of arrows.  Felicity begins to doubt that the video evidence of Oliver's death is real (even though it actually is).  She begins to investigate further and sees satellite imagery of someone (Maseo?) dragging Oliver's body away.  From there, she could probably track where this person takes Oliver's body, and Diggle could be on his way to the "neutral site" to retrieve Oliver.

[ban1o]

Does anyone know the exact episode where Laurel's BC costume premieres. I thought it would be in episode 10 but that doesn't make sense based on what happened in this fall finale. Nothing in that episode indicated that she would dress up like Sara and fight crime. What episode were they filming when the stunt doubles posted that picture that started all of this?

Could be that Barrowman was filming scenes of Merlyn watching the duel in 3x09.  Let's say that he captures video evidence of the whole thing going down, too.  He could take the video back and show it to Thea (who would then tell Roy), or he could even show it to Team Arrow (I don't recall if he knows who any of the members of Team Arrow are, though).  So the team sees the video evidence and they believe that Oliver is dead.

 

Then, Sin shows up in episode 12 with some info or evidence that shows that Malcolm doctored the video of Thea shooting Sara full of arrows.  Felicity begins to doubt that the video evidence of Oliver's death is real (even though it actually is).  She begins to investigate further and sees satellite imagery of someone (Maseo?) dragging Oliver's body away.  From there, she could probably track where this person takes Oliver's body, and Diggle could be on his way to the "neutral site" to retrieve Oliver.

Mmm I like your theory about Malcolm filming it and being the one to tell Team Arrow that Oliver is dead but I really think that Thea is the one who killed Sara the producers said that we would know by the end of episode 9 and although it is a stupid and underwhelming answer to the murder mystery, I think we'll have to live with it. I think Sin will be the one to reveal to Thea that she killed Sara since everyone else seems to be keeping it a secret from her.

 

You could be right though and I'll readily admit to be wrong. :D

Edited December 13, 2014 by ban1o

[Sunshine]

I think they said she would put on the costume in 3.10. I think between mom's encouragement and Oliver's "death" she is going to want to help Team Arrow, although I could see her going out on her own. 3.10 is more about the fallout from 3.09 I think. The MG tweet not linked in the spoiler thread was a reply to one word about 3.11. He responded:Canary.

[dtissagirl]

The camera guy posted the picture during the 311 shoot, the EW article that revealed the official pictures of Laurel as BC said the suit first shows up at 310.

If I were to guess, they'll open 310 in media res, action scene in present time, just like 301. We'll see Felicity and Roy and Dig working together and then DUN DUN DUN, cut to Laurel as BC being part of the team. Credit tiles, and then "2 months earlier", and we get the fallout of everyone dealing with Oliver's death, and the episode runs through those two months until we get to present time again by the end. We know they're dealing with Brick in present time SC, and he'll be around for 3 episodes, so they're not solving anything about him in 310 anyway.

Then 311 is the super Laurel heavy episode of doomness.

[apinknightmare]

The quote posted by MG "I don't want to be a woman you love" is so ambiguous, I don't think we know the context of what that quote is in so it's not bothering me. If Felicity says it in a moment of heartbreak then I can't wait to see Emily perform it because it'd be devastating. Some people say things they don't mean in desperate times. I really hope that Felicity and Ray don't get romantically closer at all. I don't mind Ray when he's not following Felicity, but I don't really see them having a romantic relationship. I strictly see them as friends. 

 

I wonder if maybe he doesn't come back a little batshit because of the Lazarus Pit or whatever is used to save him, and/or throws himself into being the Arrow for real this time, being less and less of Oliver Queen. Maybe it's not "I don't want to be a woman you love," it's "I don't want to be a woman you love," as in the person he's become after he came back, followed up by a comment about how she misses the man he used to be?

[JenMcSnark]

Personally, I only had one thought when I read the "I don't want to be a woman that you love" thing (hopefully I quoted that right). 

 

I immediately thought of Oliver coming back hoping that Felicity will just fall into his arms, but she needs more reassurance than that given their history.  The statement to me means 'I don't want to be  (just) a(nother) woman you love...I want to be the woman you are in love with for life.'  

 

And, as beautiful as I found their interactions in The Climb, Oliver has a ways to go to make up for all the damage he did to Felicity's head with the I can't be with you bullshit.

 

I also appreciate and agree with the post earlier about her career.  Being Oliver's girlfriend & girl friday is obviously not going to be enough for someone like Felicity.

 

Basically, being just "a woman you love" with Oliver Queen means that you come second or even third or fourth to his saving the city, etc. That's not good enough, nor should it be. 

[ban1o]

The camera guy posted the picture during the 311 shoot, the EW article that revealed the official pictures of Laurel as BC said the suit first shows up at 310.

If I were to guess, they'll open 310 in media res, action scene in present time, just like 301. We'll see Felicity and Roy and Dig working together and then DUN DUN DUN, cut to Laurel as BC being part of the team. Credit tiles, and then "2 months earlier", and we get the fallout of everyone dealing with Oliver's death, and the episode runs through those two months until we get to present time again by the end. We know they're dealing with Brick in present time SC, and he'll be around for 3 episodes, so they're not solving anything about him in 310 anyway.

Then 311 is the super Laurel heavy episode of doomness.

Thanks for your info. Interesting theory that makes sense. They definitely need flash backs to show the fall out from his death. That's really important. I kinda hope Laurel doesn't join Team Arrow though. Like why would they want her to join, especially is she starts off as a  really bad fighter like Guggenheim claims.  And in the comics Black Canary isn't a sidekick. Unless she joins and then Oliver kicks her out when he comes back. 

 

Did they confirm that 3x11 is a heavy laurel episode? TBH I don't think 10, 11, or 12 are going to be super Laurel heavy. They will just have her arc to BC. I think 3x13 is the Laurel heavy episode, hence the title? 

Edited December 13, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

According to AK, 310, 311 and 312 are the Laurel trilogy.  313 is "Canaries" so it will probably be about Sara and Laurel.

 

If they are going to make any episode Laurel-heavy, 311 makes the most sense.  People will tune in for 310 but if there's too much Laurel, they won't be back for 311, whereas they will for 312 because Oliver will be back in that one.

 

I think they said she would put on the costume in 3.10. I think between mom's encouragement and Oliver's "death" she is going to want to help Team Arrow, although I could see her going out on her own. 3.10 is more about the fallout from 3.09 I think. 

There going to have to do some serious writing in circles to justify her being on the Team in 3.10.  The last she said of it was telling Oliver she's not on his team.  If she had Sara's skill level, I could see her joining to help protect the city with Oliver being gone but right now, shes more of a liability than anything else. For her to go to the lair and say "I've come to help" is incredible arrogance.  Maybe she comes up against Brick and goes to Diggle and the Team to help her deal with him.

 

Thanks, MG, that tweet about not wanting 'to be a woman you love' plus his reply to 311 being "Canary" has really killed my enthusiasm for January's episodes.