Spoiler Discussion Thread

[NumberCruncher]

That's an interesting title. We know Oliver is back in 3x13 so it's not referring to Oliver's return, is it?

Yeah, but it could also mean that he doesn't show up until the very end of 3x13.

[ban1o]

Funny but pretty sure The Return pertains to Slade coming back to Starling City.

oh that's a good theory.

[JenMcSnark]

Regarding the spec on lazarus pit, I saw spec on tumble that Malcolm does save Oliver with some connection to the pit. They focused on a green pin that MM wears on his archer uni sometimes. It kind of looks like a vial to me. So maybe the reason SA had to change out of his uni before the fan pic is that he also had a lazarus pin. Sorry, I don't know the original tumblrs.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I have zero desire to see Felicity with Crazy Eyes Ray.  Zero.  And that interview with EBR didn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies about tonight's episode.  I think I need to downgrade my expectations from a 9 to like, a 6.  Felicity, please don't rebound with Ray because you think Oliver's dead.  God, are they going to drag this out until the season finale, when Oliver and Felicity finally get together.  Blech. 

 

Yeah, "The Return" is definitely in reference to Slade (Guggenheim has "featuring the return of @manubennett"). 

 

I thought Oliver was returning in episode 12?  Haha, if he's returning in 13, I don't think they'll con me into watching Canaries live just so I can see Oliver.  Nope.

Edited December 10, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[ban1o]

Yeah, but it could also mean that he doesn't show up until the very end of 3x13.

there was stuff with Colton and Stephen shooting a rooftop chase scene though last week. there were pictures and I remember on reddit someone posted some footage they filmed.

Edited December 10, 2014 by ban1o

[NumberCruncher]

Funny but pretty sure The Return pertains to Slade coming back to Starling City.

I guess you're right. I, for one, am a happy, happy girl to be seeing Manu again. :)

[calliope1975]

The Return of the real Canary? Yes, please.

 

I suppose we'll get info on how Maseo ended up with the LOA, right? Because that seemed to come out of nowhere. Though I haven't really been paying attention to Hong Kong, so I suppose the groundwork could have already been set. 

 

I acknowledge my hypocrisy, but I do not want Ray to be any more of a rebound for Oliver than he's already been. I don't want Felicity moving on with him. I don't necessarily like that I have these emotions as I'm all for women doing and doing whatever and whomever they want, but there is just something about Olicity that gets me. I didn't have a problem with Oliver and Sara because there hadn't been any declarations of feelings yet. My feminism is warring with my romanticism. Anyhoo, do not want Ray taking Felicity anywhere especially home to prevent her night terrors. 

[Velocity23]

That Emily & Stephen interview seems all over the place timewise.

[Carrie Ann]

I'm trying to remind myself that while MG refers to the Olicity scene as a 9 out of 10, he's coming at it from a dramatic perspective. It could be chock full of goodness and emotion, but also end badly. That's how SA's previous favorite ever Olicity scene went, right? From the premiere? Not sure we ever learned exactly which he was referring to, but I assumed the date or the kiss, and we know how both of those scenes ended. I'm not convinced either way yet, but Ray's continued presence isn't helping.

[apinknightmare]

I'm trying to remind myself that while MG refers to the Olicity scene as a 9 out of 10, he's coming at it from a dramatic perspective. It could be chock full of goodness and emotion, but also end badly. That's how SA's previous favorite ever Olicity scene went, right? From the premiere? Not sure we ever learned exactly which he was referring to, but I assumed the date or the kiss, and we know how both of those scenes ended. I'm not convinced either way yet, but Ray's continued presence isn't helping.

 

He was referring to the conversation during their date (I think he mentioned it on a Facebook Q&A or something).

[Artsda]

 

Oh, are we trying to walk this back now?

That is exactly what it sounds like, too late to now be worried about ratings. 

 

Flash is still going up, it's building on the crossover and going higher. Yet Arrow promoted a Canary trilogy for after the break, doubt that would have the same affect. With the reaction, they probably realize that now too. Although I don't know how they couldn't possibly have known that before.

 

When the episodes air, I guess we'll see which of the 2 EP's are more truthful. At least AK gave everyone a heads up.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Artsda

[Kymmi]

That Emily & Stephen interview seems all over the place timewise.

 

That's because they are piecing together multiple interviews from the past several months.  Irritating.

[statsgirl]

If they didn't know that a Laurel quartet wouldn't be well anticipated, they're working very hard to be blind.  In terms of show-running, it seems idiotic because they've just had the bump from the cross-over and now they're going to waste it on Laurel and Roy without Oliver.  No wonder MG is suddenly talking about those episodes being Team Arrow rather than InstaCanary.  But why aren't they playing up the Malcolm stuff more?

 

They're shooting 3x14 now, right?  So if Guggenheim hasn't seen the whole ATOM suit yet, it probably appears in the May sweeps.

SA talking about the fall-out from Ray's kiss I took to mean the fall-out between Oliver and Felicity, or maybe that's just wishful thinking because I'd much rather they deal with it in terms of Oliver/Felicity than Felicity/Ray.  IMO Ray's served his purpose in term of Felicity emotionally, let's be professional now.  Then SA was smiling as he started talking about Ray's role in the show.

 

So he is promoting the episode by basically saying "Don't worry, there's not as much Laurel as you think"? Can he hear himself? 

I'm laughing at this. Of course the general audience wouldn't be happy knowing there were going to be four episodes of LaurelCanary and no Oliver.  Duh.

 

 

Kreisberg said. "She's not as present in these episodes, but that is because we've been building up to her appearance as the Black Canary. We sort of said that Sara was the Canary, but Laurel is the Black Canary. Episodes 10, 11 and 12 are a three-part trilogy that are about her. And episode 13 I think I can spoil, is called 'Canaries.' For fans of Laurel and for fans of Katie [Cassidy], they're going to get more than their fill after the winter break."

And the rest of us will get more than our fill.

 

Never heard of him before this show but I started following CH on twitter when he was live tweeting over-hearing the first date at the restaurant because his comments were so hilarious.

Edited December 10, 2014 by statsgirl

[Password]

That's because they are piecing together multiple interviews from the past several months. Irritating.

Yeah that's the impression I got too.

Sigh. Look EBR seems fairly optimistic about Ray but when she said "am I supposed to like this?" About the kiss I just went "eww but it's Ray." I need to prepare myself for massively eye roll moments of which I took part of during the Sara-Oliver relationship aplenty.

[looptab]

I wouldn't mind the episodes focusing on Team Arrow if Team Arrow were Dig, Felicity and Roy, but apparently that's not going to happen. However, after reading the interview with Guggenheim, now I see what SA meant when he said they were coming after the hiatus with something never done before..the multi-episode arc villain. Oh, Mr. Brightside! 

[wonderwall]

 

 

“Let’s just say this: the scenes are so good, composer Blake Neely worked up a little something special. "[blake] wrote this beautiful, beautiful cue for Oliver and Felicity for a very emotional scene that they have together where it’s sort of like soaring and orchestral," Guggenheim teases. "It’s these strings and it actually feels really big and epic. If I was an Olicity fan, I would tweet at Blake mercilessly and get him to release that cue online." (You can do that here; get to work.)”

—  Marc Guggenheim about tonight’s intense olicity moment

Jesus friggin christ. I am so nervous yet so excited for this 'moment'. BUT DAMN I'm trying to keep  my expectations low. 

[ban1o]

So new sneak peek with Ray and Felicity. Yep Felicity and Ray are going to get together.

 

lol at the hosts calling Felicity Oliver's girlfriend. They probably don't watch the show.

[wonderwall]

So new sneak peek with Ray and Felicity. Yep Felicity and Ray are going to get together.

 

lol at the hosts calling Felicity Oliver's girlfriend. They probably don't watch the show.

I mean... We all sort of knew this right? I just wonder if it happens before Oliver leaves or after. Hmm

[Password]

So new sneak peek with Ray and Felicity. Yep Felicity and Ray are going to get together.

Sigh. Was there any doubt? I just questioned the circumstances, not the inevitability.

[Velocity23]

Ok i think i am dumb lol what points at Felicity & Ray getting together?

[ban1o]

I mean... We all sort of knew this right? I just wonder if it happens before Oliver leaves or after. Hmm

I'm guessing after, probably. But then again if she really does believe Oliver is dead it would be kind of fast too move on so quickly. But everything moves quickly on this show lol.

[Soulfire]

The Felicity and Ray scene seems like an obvious set up to have Ray, at a later point, say he doesn't regret the kiss blah blah woof woof, making him into season 3's Good Guy For Felicity who doesn't regret kissing her.

 

I keep hoping that these writers will surprise us with, well, anything but clearly not. There's still an nth of hope left in me they'll decide they're better off in a professional relationship only, but...

 

ETA: Because I've decided to calm down and lower my expectations into a ditch, basically.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Soulfire

[ban1o]

Ok i think i am dumb lol what points at Felicity & Ray getting together?

it just seems like it. Felicity doesn't seem mad that he kissed her but because he just randomly left after and Ray will probably tell her about the ATOM thing and that he doesn't regret the kiss or whatever and he really does like her and with Oliver gone for such a long while It makes sense that she would get with Ray. Maybe I'm wrong though lol.

Edited December 10, 2014 by ban1o

[BkWurm1]

I'd been holding out hopes that we wouldn't get full blown Ray and Felicity but yeah, that's coming. Must. Brace. Self.

I think the worst part isn't going to be handling their scenes, but dealing with the fallout to Felicity's character. She is going to be vilified on line. Not looking forward to months of that.

[wonderwall]

I'm guessing after, probably. But then again if she really does believe Oliver is dead it would be kind of fast too move on so quickly. But everything moves quickly on this show lol.

They should really understand that the action and plot are what we enjoy to be at breakneck speed, not the development of characters and relationships :p If it's after then I'll be side-eying Felicity's feelings for Oliver BIG TIME. And that's not something I enjoy doing. 

 

But yeah, as BkWurm1 said, not looking forward to Felicity being berated/vilified online. Not fun to watch at all. Especially because the Arrow fandom is quite insane. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by wonderwall

[ostentatious]

That was Felicity expressing her Oliver issues. Ray, in her mind, did the same thing Oliver did. They may get together, but not because that scene indicated they will. She's just totally done with dudes running that particular game. The rest of the scene is probably the suit reveal. I'm not saying that Ray won't probably come through with a response to her that is more satisfactory than Oliver's continuing dangling bs, but that scene is only slightly about Ray and Felicity.

Edited December 10, 2014 by ostentatious

[Velocity23]

I mean Oliver did say over the comms he cant be with anyone ever. Then this guy she thought likes her & they kiss rejects her once again. Thats quite a lot of rejection she must have felt that night.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

I'd been holding out hopes that we wouldn't get full blown Ray and Felicity but yeah, that's coming. Must. Brace. Self.

I think the worst part isn't going to be handling their scenes, but dealing with the fallout to Felicity's character. She is going to be vilified on line. Not looking forward to months of that.

 

It depends on how it shakes out - and what exactly happens between her and Oliver tonight. I wonder if now that she's obviously going to find out about his A.T.O.M. suit, if they don't have her and Ray in some kind of personal (not professional) holding pattern while Oliver's gone - then have things heat up between them once Oliver's back to lessen the fallout. Hopefully nothing romantic happens between them tonight - can't take that, haha.

[Belinea]

Hopefully nothing romantic happens between them tonight

That would be a good surprise for me. I hope that will be my early Christmas present but I have a feeling that Ray and Felicity will be a thing. I just feel as though the writers want that to happen. I don't know why. I am seriously dreading the episode. Hopefully it

delivers because if all that there is to look forward to is Oliver gone, Laurel as BC and Ray and Felicity as a weird power couple, I

won't know how to handle that. Well I do but I don't want to be too negative ;-)

[ostentatious]

The most that will happen is something related to Hannukah, him taking her home, something really tentative like that. But it will soon be completely overshadowed by the Oliver stuff. I really don't see Felicity hooking up with Ray while Oliver is gone. Not with that forehead kiss.

[BkWurm1]

There's no way Felicity can win. If she gets together with Palmer before Oliver leaves it's horrible that he goes off to death without any hope. If she gets together after Oliver goes - even if she thinks he is dead- then she has no faith or loyalty or weak for seeking comfort or stupid for jumping into a rebound. If she hooks up with Palmer after Oliver returns then it's like a slap in the face to all that Oliver suffered to get back to her. I'm exaggerating and over simplifying but oh, it's going to get ugly.

Edited December 10, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Password]

It depends on how it shakes out - and what exactly happens between her and Oliver tonight. I wonder if now that she's obviously going to find out about his A.T.O.M. suit, if they don't have her and Ray in some kind of personal (not professional) holding pattern while Oliver's gone - then have things heat up between them once Oliver's back to lessen the fallout. Hopefully nothing romantic happens between them tonight - can't take that, haha.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it'll play out this way. Otherwise, massive side eye at Felicity. I wouldn't side eye her because I'd feel slightly hypocritic, and also I have so little time for Ray-Felicity it's not worth expending energy.

But yes I agree, she's so done with dudes dangling maybes it's not funny.

We can only compare and contrast with that disaster between Sara and Oliver last season. Biggest difference being feelings are now on the table. But many people have said Oliver turned to Sara for comfort and familiarity. If Felicity does the same, I'd berate her but not write her off because that would be hypocritical.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Limbo

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm being completely honest here.  I'm definitely not going to be OK with Felicity moving on with Ray, even if she thinks that Oliver is dead.  It's going to be less than two months before Oliver returns, that's not enough time for her to grieve and move on with her life.  Then when Oliver returns, why the hell wouldn't they automatically get together (especially if this scene that we're getting tonight is a 9). 

 

I'm hoping that Ray is a good friend to Felicity after Oliver's "death", they grow closer, and he wants more.  But Oliver returns and she makes her choice to be with him instead.  That wouldn't be so bad.

Edited December 10, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[SmallScreenDiva]

"Oliver is dead so I'm gonna have sex with Creepy because Oliver is dead." I mean, I do not in any way wanna watch that, or even think about that, for that matter, but Rebounding While Grieving, it's a thing I totally can see these writers going for. Crazy Eyes is Felicity's Sara, in a way.

OK, am on mobile so it's difficult to check but that OOC thing about Felicity is regarding the talk with Oliver, right? Because I'm suddenly a little panicked about this rebound speculation.

[apinknightmare]

I'm being completely honest here.  I'm definitely not going to be OK with Felicity moving on with Ray, even if she thinks that Oliver is dead.  It's going to be less than two months before Oliver returns, that's not enough time for her to grieve and move on with her life.  Then when Oliver returns, why the hell wouldn't they automatically get together (especially if this scene that we're getting tonight is a 9). 

 

I'm guessing this scene is going to have an "I love you, but," moment. SA said that we'll definitely know how Oliver feels tonight, so I wonder if he just lays it all out there because he'll know it might be the last chance he ever gets. So, she tells him how she feels, and he tells her how he feels. It could be 9-level emotion, like, "I want what Diggle has and if I could have it I would want to have it with you, but I can't." "I love you, and if I could be with anyone it would be you, but I can't." "You are the love of my life and you make me a better man and I want nothing more than to come back to you and Fernlicity, but I don't think I will." But, but, but. It gives us the confirmation of his emotions and the out that nothing can be done about them. Because of the buts, the butts. 

 

I kind of see this playing out just like that, because we'd feel for Oliver and his infinite manpain, and we'd feel for Felicity because seriously, this dude. So then he disappears and dies, and Felicity tries to pick up the pieces, and she helps Ray with his super suit and confides in him or whatever. Then Oliver comes back and her and Felicity just cannot with his wishy-washy, self-flaggelating ass anymore so she gives it a go. I suppose it'll get serious right around the time Oliver decides that it's time to get his shit together. 

 

I mean, we might as well prepare ourselves. She and Ray? They're gonna try it. Hopefully the 'when' doesn't make me sick.

Edited December 10, 2014 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

I have a feeling I'm going to be writing in regards to Felicity an awful lot of sentences that start with, "Yes, but..." Or "I hate it but..."

Sigh

I'm suddenly not looking forward to tonight's episode at all.

[Password]

I'm hoping that Ray is a good friend to Felicity after Oliver's "death", they grow closer, and he wants more. But Oliver returns and she makes her choice to be with him instead. That wouldn't be so bad.

Aw man I'd like this to come to fruition because it would fulfill the whole "she needs to have a choice" thing but

...I just really think they will get together. It might not be long, it will probably grate on my teeth but. Yeah I think it'll happen.

If it so happens that they don't and Felicity doesn't need to get together with Ray (to taste the fruit) before making her choice, them brava Arrow. But yeah. Prepare your souls.

[Genki]

There's no way Felicity can win. If she gets together with Palmer before Oliver leaves it's horrible that he goes off to death without any hope. If she gets together after Oliver goes - even if she thinks he is dead- then she has no faith or loyalty or weak for seeking comfort or stupid for jumping into a rebound. If she hooks up with Palmer after Oliver returns then it's like a slap in the face to all that Oliver suffered to get back to her. I'm exaggerating and over simplifying but oh, it's going to get ugly.

 

That's probably true, but I think a lot of resistance will be because it's Ray. I think if it were Barry (obviously can't be) I could maybe buy it.

 

So not looking forward to post hiatus, only thing of interest for me, Felicity/Thea.

 

Read through to MG interviews, really think they are going with an Oliver is dead situation.

 

Also, the more the interviews talked about comic book elements, the less excited I get about anything pre 3.14.

 

Ray coming to the fore, I've had enough Ray already.

Brick don't care don't care about Vinnie Jones they have  tight budget, why splash out on "names"?

Laurel...the less the better.

Team Arrow anchored by Roy? I started watching Teen Wolf, Colton is a better actor there but like KC I think he has a limited range, and I don't care that much about Roy.

 

No Oliver is a BIG issue for me, and I'm really wary of what is going on with Felicity, I think it will play on the worst cliches.

 

ETA: just saw the Felicity/Ray scene ugh stop with the Mansplaining Ray!

Edited December 10, 2014 by Genki

[Password]

It gives us the confirmation of his emotions and the out that nothing can be done about them. Because of the buts, the butts.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I don't think there'll be a "but". I mean there totally could be, but why would Felicity even give him the time of day if he only gets his act together when she's with Ray? Like no Oliver you had your chance bye. Edited December 10, 2014 by Limbo

[dtissagirl]

That's probably true, but I think a lot of resistance will be because it's Ray. I think if it were Barry (obviously can't be) I could maybe buy it.

 

500% of my resistance is because it's Crazy Eyes. Hell, if this show went legit dark and Felicity and Roy started having sex with dead eyes while super drunk because they were grieving, and I wouldn't be so *SHUDDERS* *EWWW* *Noooo*. But it's the stalker creepster, so.

[apinknightmare]

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I don't think there'll be a "but". I mean there totally could be, but why would Felicity even give him the time of day if he only gets his act together when she's with Ray? Like no Oliver you had your chance bye.

 

Well, I think she knows Oliver well enough to understand why he's pulling the bullshit he's pulling with her. Putting up with it is something different entirely, but I don't think she's writing him off or anything. I just think there has to be a but, because like others said, what's to stop them from getting together right away the second he comes back if there are no buts? I mean, maybe they would, but...it seems unlikely with this show. The 'but' leaves a lot of doors open for the writing in terms of what could be believable in the second half - a full-on non-but confession? I don't know, man. 

[blixie]

If there is any kiind of "but" I want her to personally push his ass off the fucking cliff, and then go bang the hell out of Ray.

[Orion]

I just don't see this 9 Olicity scene being anything happy. I think it will probably relate to what Oliver is saying in preview (not that he is saying it to Felicity) "there isn't anything I wouldn't do to protect you" He's going to have to give up his humanity and I wouldn't be surprised if by the time we see Oliver again he has become only the Arrow under Ra's tutelage.  He hasn't hit rock bottom yet. He hasn't decided to fight for Oliver Queen and he's still trying to convince himself like he told Barry that they can't have the girl. There is still a ways to go in that storyline before Oliver gets his head out of his ass.

 

I don't think Felicity will be with Ray over the break but they are going to grow closer and when weapon Oliver comes back I'll side with Felicity when she moves forward with Ray because "her" Oliver is gone. Then just in time for May sweeps Oliver will figure it out and start fighting for it. In the meantime we are going to get a storyline where Felicity, Diggle, Roy and others move on with their lives without Oliver and he's now on the outside looking in when he gets back. 

 

Knowing I'm on extended hiatus after this is helping me sit back and be extremely amused by their attempts to disguise the giant elephant in the story by saying these episodes are Team Arrow! and Roy! and Malcolm!!!  Pretty soon they are going to start throwing in Argus, Felicity, the homeless guy on 10th street and the cook at Big Belly Burger, they are going to have huge, HUGE, I say storylines in those three episodes.

[apinknightmare]

500% of my resistance is because it's Crazy Eyes. Hell, if this show went legit dark and Felicity and Roy started having sex with dead eyes while super drunk because they were grieving, and I wouldn't be so *SHUDDERS* *EWWW* *Noooo*. But it's the stalker creepster, so.

 

Ray really doesn't bother me so much upon rewatch, but those eyes. THOSE EYES. I wish someone would make him stop.

[calliope1975]

There's no way Felicity can win. If she gets together with Palmer before Oliver leaves it's horrible that he goes off to death without any hope. If she gets together after Oliver goes - even if she thinks he is dead- then she has no faith or loyalty or weak for seeking comfort or stupid for jumping into a rebound. If she hooks up with Palmer after Oliver returns then it's like a slap in the face to all that Oliver suffered to get back to her. I'm exaggerating and over simplifying but oh, it's going to get ugly.

 

I almost wish SA and EBR had less chemistry. If their relationship had remained a bit stilted as it was before the crossover, I could maybe, probably, begrudgingly, accept Ray as a love interest. But after two nights of those two idiots acting as married as you can get, with the gazing and eye sex and flirty flirt, it's much more difficult to see Ray as a viable option anymore. 

[Genki]

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I don't think there'll be a "but". I mean there totally could be, but why would Felicity even give him the time of day if he only gets his act together when she's with Ray? Like no Oliver you had your chance bye.

 

 

 

ETA: misread you comment, ignore the previous, lol!

 

I hope there is no "but" too.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Genki

[BkWurm1]

Now I am imaging a scene where Oliver begs her to live her life to the fullest with no regrets if/when he doesn't come back, a live for the both of us kind of speech that practically flings her at Ray.

[Angel12d]

Lol @ all the backtracking about Laurel. It was obvious that the team would also feature predominantly, I mean we all knew it wouldn't be a solid three hours of Laurel on screen but THERE IS NO TEAM ARROW WITHOUT ARROW. So no thanks.

 

Ugh. This Ray and Felicity stuff is really hard to stomach. I will be side-eyeing Felicity hard if she gets with Ray while Oliver goes off to fight to the death. I don't see how she can date someone else while the man she presumably loves is fighting for his life and the lives of his city. And if she does think he's dead, isn't that a bit quick for her to move on? And EBR pushing this R/F romance is too much for me. I know she has a job to sell these things but I'm not buying. 

 

My expectations of the Olicity scene tonight are at a 3 now, probably less. 

 

Do they actually want me to watch this show anymore? Because I really have little interest in anything they're telling me. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by Angel12d

[Password]

I almost wish SA and EBR had less chemistry. If their relationship had remained a bit stilted as it was before the crossover, I could maybe, probably, begrudgingly, accept Ray as a love interest. But after two nights of those two idiots acting as married as you can get, with the gazing and eye sex and flirty flirt, it's much more difficult to see Ray as a viable option anymore.

You know I read somewhere that there was no romantic connotations in the crossovers, so either we're seeing what wasn't planned, or they gave us those moments of respite because everything will be crap here on out and we need something to hold onto.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I hope we're all wrong.  I hope that this level 9 scene ends with Oliver promising to return to Felicity, and then we get some swelling music and a passionate kiss.  But in reality I'm basically expecting a lot of rage posts tonight.  I just know I'm gonna be so angry after this episode.