Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Password]

Oliver being psychotic...little worried about Barry. Oh and we know the arrows in the back was for that kiss!! Hehe

[calliope1975]

I'm excited, too, which is a nice feeling. I do enjoy that Oliver's first instinct seems to be to train. It'll be a nice, new approach on The Flash because there hasn't been much focus on Barry training and how he would even know how to fight. Is Boomerang the only villain, or do I remember reading Tockman is in this, too?

Edited November 26, 2014 by calliope1975

[SmallScreenDiva]

Tockman was the villain in tonight's "The Flash." A metahuman named Bivolo is the villain on "The Flash" part of the crossover. We don't see Captain Boomerang, I think, until the "Arrow" version.

[quarks]

Tockman was just on tonight's episode of Flash.  He's not dead so in theory he could be in next week's Flash. I did think Flash did a nice job of giving a reason for Eddie to be sidelined next week that wasn't just "Hey, Stephen Amell is on your show."

[quarks]

On a sidenote, Flash just strongly suggested that as long as Barry Allen stays as the Flash, either Oliver or Thea will regain control of the company formerly known as Queen Consolidated or start a new firm called Queen Inc.  On this same sidenote, for shows that allegedly can't do Batman/Gotham crossovers, they do seem to be able to have a lot of Batman references - Batman villains, locations, and a little company called Wayne Enterprises....

[Orion]

On a sidenote, Flash just strongly suggested that as long as Barry Allen stays as the Flash, either Oliver or Thea will regain control of the company formerly known as Queen Consolidated or start a new firm called Queen Inc.  On this same sidenote, for shows that allegedly can't do Batman/Gotham crossovers, they do seem to be able to have a lot of Batman references - Batman villains, locations, and a little company called Wayne Enterprises....

 

Or a future spouse with the last name of Queen. ;)

[wonderwall]

Or a future spouse with the last name of Queen. ;)

With Felicity as VP, it is a huge possibility ;)

[statsgirl]

That promo does look like fun.  I'm looking forward to Barry/Oliver and Caitlyn/Cisco/Felicity.

 

Is that Diggle's arms Iris is talking about?

Today was last day of 3x12 i think.

So Oliver just appears at the end then?  Ta Da!

[NumberCruncher]

Is that Diggle's arms Iris is talking about?

I think she's referring to Oliver since he and Felicity are seen having coffee in the background of the scene but I guess it's a possibility it's Digg.

[chaos is welcome]

That promo does look like fun.  I'm looking forward to Barry/Oliver and Caitlyn/Cisco/Felicity.

 

Is that Diggle's arms Iris is talking about?

So Oliver just appears at the end then?  Ta Da!

Stephen was in Vancouver for a day or 2 before the crossover screening as well.

[Password]

My heart breaks everytime Oliver and Felicity do something normal. Next step: eating take out. Shipper down!!

[calliope1975]

My heart breaks everytime Oliver and Felicity do something normal. Next step: eating take out. Shipper down!!

 

I feel ya. This is why I'm bummed at all the discord between the two. I just want them to be normal and eat pizza together while she makes him watch nerd shows.

[wonderwall]

Random fan comment that I thought was worthy enough to share:

It’s ironic that it takes going to Central “meta human crazy town” City, for Oliver and Felicity to do something really normal like sit down to a cup of coffee together. - X

This made me laugh so loud :p

Edited November 26, 2014 by wonderwall

[HighHopes]

Is that Oliver and Felicity and having coffee at Jitters (far right of this screen shot)?

 

Tumblr says yes- someone else screencapped a gif that was made and zoomed in and it's them. 

[wingster55]

Kick his ass Barry! 

 

Why doesn't Diggle go to Jitters? (Although from a Candice Patton interview...he might. But I want him and Iris....for reasons)

[foreverevolving]

Is that Oliver and Felicity and having coffee at Jitters (far right of this screen shot)? I'm thinking it is. Probably right after Oliver meets Iris because she's describing arms that are "twice the size" of Barry's. Because there's a spoiler about that meeting, right?

 

 

It does look like Oliver.

Plus when you think about it... Diggle arms are twice the size of Oliver's hence they will be Four times the size of Barry's arms.

[wonderwall]

It does look like Oliver.

Plus when you think about it... Diggle arms are twice the size of Oliver's hence they will be Four times the size of Barry's arms.

LOL it is Oliver/Felicity. A person who went to the early screening confirmed it :) Apparently this scene was there #married scene. 

 

Plus it goes hand in hand with this tweet

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/103610771818/andjustforthismoment-jbuffyangel#notes

[BkWurm1]

It also looks like Barry is looking back at them in the corner. 

[tv echo]

On a sidenote, Flash just strongly suggested that as long as Barry Allen stays as the Flash, either Oliver or Thea will regain control of the company formerly known as Queen Consolidated or start a new firm called Queen Inc.  On this same sidenote, for shows that allegedly can't do Batman/Gotham crossovers, they do seem to be able to have a lot of Batman references - Batman villains, locations, and a little company called Wayne Enterprises....

It looks like Queen Inc. exists in the future regardless of whether or not Barry Allen keeps his powers.  As I commented here, Barry Allen staying the Flash only affects whether or not the Wayne/Queen merger goes through.

Edited November 26, 2014 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

So, regarding that tweet from MG in the SPOILERS ONLY thread about Felicity not looking for Oliver while he's missing (she'll know where he is, or where he's not), they must think he's dead, right? I can't imagine her or Digg or even Roy at this point for that matter just letting him go off with Ra's al Ghul or whoever and not even try to get him back.

[Password]

I actually don't know what to make of that tweet. Not looking for him, knows where is or is not, so WAITING for him to return? Like there's a time constraint or something. Maybe the LoA tell him to do something in Thea's place, and afterwards he returns.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm very confused by this tbh. I don't know if they'll think he's dead but maybe they know that there's no changing Oliver's mind and he hands himself over the the LoA? But then even if he goes willingly I can't see the team just letting that happen and not finding another way. 

 

But then with the speculation of Diggle putting on the Arrow suit, that suggests that it's just a temporary measure until Oliver gets back. So maybe there is a time constraint. Or supposed to be but it ends up going on longer than everyone thought? I have no clue.

[Carrie Ann]

I want so much for them not to think he's dead that I'm willing to believe he agrees to go to the League until they can provide the identity of Sara's killer. (Based on the spoiler that the League is threatening the people of Starling until Sara's killer is found.) And I think the team could put up with it for awhile, while they're working on that, but eventually, they're going to want to pull him out.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe MG is being very literal with that tweet. Felicity won't be LOOKING for him, because she'll know where he is, but she will be spending her time trying to get him back? Please?

Edited November 26, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

I find it very unsettling to think of Oliver being off with the LoA and Felicity and everyone just continuing on about their lives like nothing has changed. I really hope I'm just being paranoid.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

If they think he's dead they know where he is or where he's not.  If they know he willingly went with Ra's as payment for a debt and that he won't be killed then they won't need to look for him.

 

Arrow: Episodes 10-12 will play like a trilogy.

 

Part of the TV Line Spoiler I just posted in the spoiler thread.  WTF does this even mean?  Laurel's 'journey" is supposed to be 10-13 so why/how is 10-12 a trilogy?  What's 13 the crappy unwanted cash grab added on later?  I know 10-12 feature the same villain so I can only assume the trilogy is related to him.

[dtissagirl]

Maybe everyone else will think he's dead [again], or for a less angsty version, Oliver will come up with a bogus story to leave town [again], but Felicity knows the truth that he's going to the LoA? Because I want him to be infiltrating the League rather than just deciding he needs some more assassin training.

[WaitandHope]

So I was a long time TWOP shadower/sometimes poster who thought I had graduated from obsessing about a TV show. Alas, this damn show and you guys have pulled me back in. I love reading your thoughts, specs and rants. So I'll play.

I'm going to guess Oliver is doing some penance (for what exactly, Thea Guilt? Merlyn protection? Who knows?) with Ra's and the team will be holding down the fort the best they can. Laurel suits up to make all the bad guys think Canary is still around, so the lack of Arrow won't mean open season on Starling by all the bad guys. Diggle is in the Arrow suit some for the same reason. All of them are sort of a poor man's/rag tag fighting group. Nothing new in my speculation that most of you hadn't already surmised - just thought I'd finally get off the couch and introduce myself since I've gotten to where I'm checking this board every 4 hours or so! I'll say a hello in the small talk board as well.

[Guest]

I'm still not over how much of a risk they're making having their lead missing and dedicating three whole episodes one after the other to probably the weakest character on the show.

 

I don't know what the trilogy means though because a character journey should be a season long one, not just over three episodes. Maybe @Morrigan2575 is right - it's the same villain so perhaps Laurel goes through a transition with this villain and she learns something from it. Trilogies are connected and the one common theme will be Laurel as BC.

 

The last episodes that kind of felt like a trilogy were the last three episodes of s2 because they all took place on the same day/night, for the most part. Maybe that's what happens?

[wingster55]

Maybe Felicity knows but isn't searching...because Diggle does? *shrug*

[BunsenBurner]

Maybe Felicity and Oliver worked out a plan or timeline to follow when She and Diggle come to his rescue?

[dtissagirl]

I don't know what the trilogy means though because a character journey should be a season long one, not just over three episodes. Maybe @Morrigan2575 is right - it's the same villain so perhaps Laurel goes through a transition with this villain and she learns something from it. Trilogies are connected and the one common theme will be Laurel as BC.

 

The last episodes that kind of felt like a trilogy were the last three episodes of s2 because they all took place on the same day/night, for the most part. Maybe that's what happens?

 

Hmm, I think I like this idea. If the 3 episodes happen during the same night, or something, it might explain why aren't we seeing Oliver in present time for 3 whole episodes. If they span a really short time, then Oliver is only missing the 6 weeks of real-life time jump, instead of us having to add another 3+ weeks to it. Still not ideal, but I'll take what I can get.

 

I'm thinking whatever happens to Laurel in those 3 episodes will be her Superhero Crucible Storyline. And then in 313 they'll do some paralelling between the Lance sisters, and somehow Sara will tell Laurel [hallucination, video, letter, ghost, what have you] it's all right for Laurel to be America's Next Black Canary now. She'll have "earned" it in the 3 previous episodes.

 

[barf.]

Edited November 26, 2014 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

Hmm, I think I like this idea. If the 3 episodes happen during the same night, or something, it might explain why aren't we seeing Oliver in present time for 3 whole episodes. If they span a really short time, then Oliver is only missing the 6 weeks of real-life time jump, instead of us having to add another 3+ weeks to it. Still not ideal, but I'll take what I can get.

 

I'm thinking whatever happens to Laurel in those 3 episodes will be her Superhero Crucible Storyline. And then in 313 they'll do some paralelling between the Lance sisters, and somehow Sara will tell Laurel [hallucination, video, letter, ghost, what have you] it's all right for Laurel to be America's Next Black Canary now. She'll have "earned" it in the 3 previous episodes.

 

[barf.]

 

If those three episodes happen over one night and that's her "crucible," then those 6-12 hours must be an absolute bitch of a time, haha.

[dtissagirl]

Maybe it's not just a night, but a few days? But less than the full 3 weeks the episodes will span IRL.

 

The alternative is Brick really is a competent evil mastermind that foils Team Arrow + Laurel for 3 full weeks before what, Oliver comes back to town and easily dispatches him by the end of 312? Not that I would mind watching that because mockity mock mock, but 1. I'd be offended for Diggle not being able to do it himself, Laurel or not; and 2. that would pretty much negate the entire point of Laurel suiting up. I mean, they gotta give her a narrative victory at some point, and this would be the best possible time.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe it's not just a night, but a few days? But less than the full 3 weeks the episodes will span IRL.

 

The alternative is Brick really is a competent evil mastermind that foils Team Arrow + Laurel for 3 full weeks before what, Oliver comes back to town and easily dispatches him by the end of 312? Not that I would mind watching that because mockity mock mock, but 1. I'd be offended for Diggle not being able to do it himself, Laurel or not; and 2. that would pretty much negate the entire point of Laurel suiting up. I mean, they gotta give her a narrative victory at some point, and this would be the best possible time.

 

Oh, I wasn't criticizing your thinking at all - having her crucible be one night is something this show probably would do. I also didn't know that Brick was around for three episodes - I actually don't know anything about 10-12, because I kind of tuned out once I found out that Oliver would be gone.

[Carrie Ann]

I also didn't know that Brick was around for three episodes - I actually don't know anything about 10-12, because I kind of tuned out once I found out that Oliver would be gone.

 

I'm having a lot of trouble keeping post-hiatus spoiler info straight, and I think it's because I know I don't have to care. I mean, I will watch those episodes at some point because of Felicity and Dig, but it is kind of nice that it's just a big chunk I know is unnecessary viewing. More convenient; hiatus just lasts until February. Though of course I still think it's a terrible idea to do this.

[statsgirl]

Having her crucible all in one night negates what Guggenheim says about it's not going to be an easy road for her.  Getting it all over with in one hard night sounds easy to me.

Part of the TV Line Spoiler I just posted in the spoiler thread.  WTF does this even mean?  Laurel's 'journey" is supposed to be 10-13 so why/how is 10-12 a trilogy?  What's 13 the crappy unwanted cash grab added on later?  I know 10-12 feature the same villain so I can only assume the trilogy is related to him.

One of the EPs (MG) said that 10 - 12 were about Laurel becoming the Black Canary.

 

Later AK added that episode 13 was called Canaries.  So they're thinking of it as a Laurel trilogy, and I'm thinking it's 4 episodes I'm not interested in (except I do want to see Sara again if it doesn't make me too sad).

 

 

I'm having a lot of trouble keeping post-hiatus spoiler info straight, and I think it's because I know I don't have to care.

And if Felicity is not even looking for Oliver, which means less storyline for her and Diggle as Team Arrow, that ramps the "I don't care" up to 12 for me.

Edited November 26, 2014 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

I don't understand the whole "she knows where he is and she knows where he isn't." That is some back handed redunancy. I'm thinking their big scene is him stoping in to see her before he meets Ra's or after before he leaves. He tells her everything and so forth.

 

Unless they are spending weeks on this one Baddie. Those episodes probably only spam a few days at most. Either way, I'm certain she takes the mantle fully by ep.13. Which still doesn't make any sense. I'm thinking they extend the titling to ep13 because they want Oliver to be there to witness it. 

 

Sidenote: Annoyed that his return episode is all about Laurel.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, I wasn't criticizing your thinking at all - having her crucible be one night is something this show probably would do. I also didn't know that Brick was around for three episodes - I actually don't know anything about 10-12, because I kind of tuned out once I found out that Oliver would be gone.

 

Hee, no worries I didn't think you were. :)

 

And yeah, back when the trades announced Vinnie Jones [uGH, THIS DUDE. UGH.] is playing Brick, they mentioned he's slated to appear in 310-312. I have serious major LOATHING for him, so it stuck. But anyway, Brick's gotta be Laurel's crucible villain. How it'll go is just spec on my part anyway.

 

Oh, and I saw Marc G. mentioned on Twitter we'll know how old Felicity is in 310. I wonder if she has a birthday? Saddest birthday ever without Oliver? Sniff.

[statsgirl]

So manipulative ...... to put Felicity's birthday in an episode about Laurel so we'll tune in to find out.

[apinknightmare]

I don't understand the whole "she knows where he is and she knows where he isn't." That is some back handed redunancy.

 

Yeah, if she knows where he is, then by virtue of that she knows where he isn't. Knowing where he's not doesn't necessarily mean she knows where he is, so her not looking for him doesn't make sense at all. Unless she thinks he's dead.

So manipulative ...... to put Felicity's birthday in an episode about Laurel so we'll tune in to find out.

 

It doesn't have to be her birthday - could just be that she mentions her age for some reason or another. Although we'll probably be hearing about all kinds of neat stuff we'll be learning about her and Digg, since they seem to be realizing that they might be losing people for a bit there.

Edited November 26, 2014 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

But he's tweeted it knowing that people who have no interest in Laurel will tune in to find out about more about Felicity.

[Chaser]

Ray is probably going to buy her a pony for her birthday

[apinknightmare]

But he's tweeted it knowing that people who have no interest in Laurel will tune in to find out about more about Felicity.

 

So? I never said they weren't putting those tidbits out to get people interested, I just said it might not be her actual birthday.

[Carrie Ann]

I think the "knows where he is; knows where he isn't" just means that she knows he's not in Starling (and probably knows he's with the LoA). That it's not easy on her.

 

On a slightly related note: I really don't want them to rebrand Starling City. I assume it's Star City in the comics, right? But a major city renaming itself because it went through some tough times? That's far-fetched, in the modern age, and it's also kind of...anti-American? Something? I don't know. It doesn't sit right with me. I think the citizens would be more defensive of their city, their identity. If some rich dude swooped into town and said, "Ugh, 'Detroit' is a turn-off for people. We're calling it DeLIGHT now!" people would not be having it. Even if it was something cool, I don't think people would want that change. Regardless of what's happened in the city, changing the name is stupid.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[Kordi]

I don't understand the whole "she knows where he is and she knows where he isn't." That is some back handed redunancy.

I don't want to be nitpicking, but I guess it is important to look at the exact formulation. He said: "No. She'll know where he is-- or where he's not." As I understand it, the second part kind of corrects the first, like: "She'll know where he is, or [rather/ properly speaking] where he's not". My speculation is that Felicity will know that Oliver is not in Starling City anymore, and since she won't look for him, I take it that she'll think he is dead...

 

Now, if the team thinks that Oliver is dead, this could raise some interesting questions for the team members: Should the Arrow crusade go on even if its protagonist isn't there anymore? And if the team really does carry on the mission, what's the driving motivation behind their actions?

 

Besides that, Felicity would have to ask herself whether she should move on (after an appropriate time of grieving) and go into a full relationship with Ray...

 

Hmm, I try to be positive and convince myself of the idea that 3x10-3x12 will be well worth watching... But I'm not sure if I can really persuade myself. My stubborn fanboy inside me keeps telling me: Noooo!!! I DON'T WANT ARROW WITHOUT ARROW!!! :-P

Edited November 26, 2014 by Kordi

[calliope1975]

Noooo!!! I DON'T WANT ARROW WITHOUT ARROW!!! :-P

 

Word.

 

But really, if they think Oliver is dead, it's going to make a depressing show even darker. And we're already dealing with seeing Sara's dead body every other episode. The main reason I'm excited about next week's crossover is because it looks fun! And fun has been missing from Arrow for quite some time.

[Sunshine]

Maybe it is as simple as knowing Oliver left for Nanda Parbat or wherever.  She doesn't know he's not there because there is a fight beforehand with Ra's.  She might not be looking for him if she was expecting him to be gone for weeks. 

[lemotomato]

But given how often Team Arrow has dealt with people coming back from the dead, I can't see Felicity accepting Oliver's "death" without seeing an actual body. 

[KirkB]

Or alternatively, the others think Oliver is dead but Felicity knows he isn't because he left her a message explaining what he was doing and asking her not to tell them because...reasons?