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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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11 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Lol. If that episode spoil is completely legit I might just rage quit this show. That sound just too dumb for words, especially the William part. I hope to God that’s just someone fucking with people. 

It's the same guy who spoiled Vigilantes death. It's legit.

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I am so oddly zen about all these spoilers for this season.

I feel like at least Oliver is not running around like a twit this season. They've decided to hit a bunch of other people with the stupid stick instead. 

I just want more Felicity and Diggle and I'd be pretty content this season. 

I think William might go to the site because he's worried about his dad and maybe inherited a bit of the hero complex from the old man. Or it could be like Dad and stepmom are both in on all this action, he wants to join in and he's worried about his dad too. I don't know any 11 year olds but kids think in interesting ways sometimes. They've given me enough on the kid for me to accept all these things as plausible. 

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By the time the promo was posted they were 2-3 days into filming episode 15 so it's definitely possible shots from episode 14 is in there... 

I'm just trying to tell myself to be patient and to get over episode 13 because I'm expecting all the good stuff to be in 14+

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49 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I am so oddly zen about all these spoilers for this season.

I feel like at least Oliver is not running around like a twit this season. They've decided to hit a bunch of other people with the stupid stick instead. 

I just want more Felicity and Diggle and I'd be pretty content this season. 

I think William might go to the site because he's worried about his dad and maybe inherited a bit of the hero complex from the old man. Or it could be like Dad and stepmom are both in on all this action, he wants to join in and he's worried about his dad too. I don't know any 11 year olds but kids think in interesting ways sometimes. They've given me enough on the kid for me to accept all these things as plausible. 

I'm on your wavelength.  

William wanting to "help" and being worried about his dad doesn't seem at odds with accepting that Oliver is GA.  Even if he knows that if Oliver did die he'd still have Felicity, that doesn't mean that he's ok with Oliver dying any more than Felicity would be ok with Oliver dying and if he gets it in his head he somehow can save him, yeah, the hero complex is probably in his genetics as well.  (mixed with dumb as dirt, hence running into the middle of a bunch of bad guys, lol)

And while some of the stuff spoiled probably will be really annoying, I'm willing to bet it isn't all as bad as such a careless review implies.  He never hones in on the things that usually save the episodes for me so I'm not overly worried.  I guess part of me is glad to know that poor Quentin is still ramming his head against the stupid stick so at least I can brace for that.  It seemed likely after this week's episode.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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11 hours ago, strikera0 said:

Scene starts with Oliver and Diggle storming Cayden's hideout. Cayden knows  "We almost have proof that I didn't kill your son!"

Cayden's son was killed by some Carl Iskoff/Iskov whatever. An assasin who doesn't use a bow but is using one in the footage. They theorized that maybe it was by request to frame

Oliver.

Flash drops off Oliver and Diggle in front of Cayden's car. William listens in with a stolen earpiece ..He goes to the meetup place wat ...William arrives too. Says he's scared he might lose Oliver like his mom on the island

Anatoly overwhelms Curtis and Rene  Anatoly escapes. Dragon escapes

The new police captain and a few other city officials are now in Dragon's payroll

He said something about Arclight helping in thinning the herd

Are you guys sure this can be trusted?  Because there are a lot of things that smell of old fish:

Why would Oliver and Diggle storm CJ's hideout saying they "almost" have proof?  Why not prove he wasn't in Star City that day?

Do assassins just pick up new weapons like that?  Doesn't it take training to shoot an arrow that accurately?

If the Flash was going to make an appearance, don't you think it would have been in the promo? Barry has never been just a taxi service on Arrow and doesn't he have his own problems now? And why would William show up at a dangerous meet?  He's a smart kid, he has to know it would make it more dangerous for Oliver if he's there, that he could get Oliver killed.  Also he's shown no sign of wanting to be a vigilante himself.  After Felicity showed him how good Oliver is at what he does, why would William wnat to show up there and disturb him?

I respect Anatoly but I have a hard time believing that he can overpower both Curtis and Rene.

How can Dragon already have the new police captain (who wasn't even named in the last episode) and other city officials in his pay.

Who is Arclight?

Edited by statsgirl
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7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Are you guys sure this can be trusted?  Because there are a lot of things that smell of old fish:

The same poster accurately spoiled the crossovers and the last episode but they are not the most descriptive person and seem to miss/ignore a lot of background stuff and non-action stuff. I think they are getting the pre-VFX edits somehow? 

Edited by leopardprint
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The gas chamber was in s4.

Barry showed up in 3x21 or 22 to save everyone from the omega virus when they were in Nanda Parbat and then returned to save his own city. That's not just taking Oliver and Diggle a few miles out of town. He wasn't in the promo because he was the resolution to the cliffhanger.

It also doesn't make sense that just after getting people to like William,  they ruin him with that trick. He would have to be very stupid to think that he could save Oliver. 

It Does Not Compute.

Edited by statsgirl
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1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Are you guys sure this can be trusted?  Because there are a lot of things that smell of old fish:

Why would Oliver and Diggle storm CJ's hideout saying they "almost" have proof?  Why not prove he wasn't in Star City that day?

Do assassins just pick up new weapons like that?  Doesn't it take training to shoot an arrow that accurately?

If the Flash was going to make an appearance, don't you think it would have been in the promo? Barry has never been just a taxi service on Arrow and doesn't he have his own problems now? And why would William show up at a dangerous meet?  He's a smart kid, he has to know it would make it more dangerous for Oliver if he's there, that he could get Oliver killed.  Also he's shown no sign of wanting to be a vigilante himself.  After Felicity showed him how good Oliver is at what he does, why would William wnat to show up there and disturb him?

I respect Anatoly but I have a hard time believing that he can overpower both Curtis and Rene.

How can Dragon already have the new police captain (who wasn't even named in the last episode) and other city officials in his pay.

Who is Arclight?

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I think the "almost proof" will end up meaning that they don't have all the answers, like who is behind it but time will be of essence so they will use what they know.  

The assassin could have had the ability just not the compunction to usually use his archery skills that way.  It's a stretch but why not, lol.

And while we have had proof that Willaim is book smart, previously the little crayon eater never seemed that bright of a bulb when it came to human interaction.   Remember him going with Malcolm out of his window and standing around and chatting with the stranger that knew his secret name?  It feels within his range of possible, lol.

Anatoly might be underestimated by Rene and Curtis and therefore be provided with easy targets.  

I figure Dragon once he has all of the city's money, he can start offering huge bribes, not just as a monetary incentive but perhaps promise of restoring order again. 

I don't know what Arclight is, but Cayden James mentioned it as part of his plan back in Reversal when they were trying to "save the internet"

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I’d think William’s reaction makes sense in the context of 611 if in that episode they showed him being a little conflicted and not absolutely chill..it’s the little things..they could have showed him being sad for ten seconds in his room at the end of the episode so viewers could have thought “oh, he tried to be strong for Oliver and Felicity but look at how worried he is!” It’s like we always have to try to explain things that happen on screen to make them fit the story while the writers don’t even care.

I think the guy is legit but sucks at recaps so the weirdness is due to that.

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Could Arclight be the real Big Bad of the season?  Is he an Easter egg? Or are they saving him for next season?  Dragon seems so lame after Cayden James,  another thing like Church.

If the spoilers are true,  I'm very disappointed in William. It's one thing to worry about your parent,  it's quite another to leave the place he has put you to keep you safe and put both of you in danger when you have no skills to help. Are we sure Laurel isn't his mother?

Edited by statsgirl
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15 hours ago, bijoux said:

ETA: Is this Tracie Thoms? Will she guest star? I'm SO glad Roy's here for a few episodes and not just doing a fly by like in season 4.

I don't think that Tracie Thoms is guest-starring. I remember reading through Colton's tweets. I think they just happened to be at the same dinner...

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(edited)

I guess Nyssa showing up at the end of 615 as the hook.

I wonder if this big threat is related to Thea/Willa's exit? Are they after Thea for some reason? She is Malcolm's 'heir'.

Or maybe since we know/think she suits back up this is more confirmation that she can't live this life and needs a clean break?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

I respect Anatoly but I have a hard time believing that he can overpower both Curtis and Rene.

That pinged a little for me at first, but then I thought about it, and I was like, yeah, that makes sense. 

What I really hate about that spoiler is the William stuff and the Lance stuff. The William stuff because it’s so incredibly dumb and dangerous for him to do that, and the Lance stuff because obviously. I know a lot of people just think he’s being an idiot about BS, but I don’t think his actions are out of character. He’s been through a lot with his daughters and his alcoholism shows he doesn’t have the best judgment and coping mechanisms. I’m worried about the guy. 

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My problem with Lance’s insistence about BS is I’m starting to wonder if there’s anything she could do that would get him off the “there’s part of my daughter in her” kick. What if she killed one of the team? Thea? Tried to kill William? Set off a bomb that destroyed a large part of the city and killed hundreds?  

I just don’t get how he sees this ending. 

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Are we sure Quentin isn't having a mental breakdown? He's been through enough.

IDK, I find this whole storyline dumb and really half-assed tbh, like everything they've done with Laurel, because it's kinda obvious where it's going. Either BS eventually kills Quentin and stays a "true" villain or she's going to be "redeemed" in as much as Malcolm Merlyn was. I've always thought it was going to be the latter because how else would they keep KC/BS on the show otherwise? In this scenario Quentin is the Thea and BS is the Malcolm and likely she will outstay her welcome as much as he did, making characters dumb just so she has a reason to stay on the show.

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I'm honestly expecting Lance to keep BS chained up in his guest room.  Play her his home videos of Laurel, show her slideshows of Laurel's great hits, give BS Laurel's old clothes to wear...etc. Showing BS videos of Laurel and telling her he sees his daughter in her eyes. It reads like he is trying to brainwash BS into thinking she is this Laurel he is talking about. It's so creepy.

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18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm honestly expecting Lance to keep BS chained up in his guest room.  Play her his home videos of Laurel, show her slideshows of Laurel's great hits, give BS Laurel's old clothes to wear...etc. 

So, basically what Laurel did to Sara after she came out of the Lazarus Pit?

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(edited)
3 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I've always thought it was going to be the latter because how else would they keep KC/BS on the show otherwise? In this scenario Quentin is the Thea and BS is the Malcolm and likely she will outstay her welcome as much as he did, making characters dumb just so she has a reason to stay on the show.

I never really considered Malcolm redeemed until his S5 death where he took the landmine for Thea. In S3, S4 and LoT he was written as a villain (IMO) not even an anti-hero or morally gray, Malcolm was a straight up villain just not the Big Bad for that season. Although, in S4 (and LoT) he clearly worked for the Big Bad. 

Thing is, while Arrow went out of it's way to keep Malcolm/Barrowman around it was for obvious BTS reasons. Barrowman has street cred in the genre arena and the cast/crew/producers seem to like him. I can't say the same about KC. 

I'm thinking/hoping that the storyline is actually about Lance's guilt over LL dying for his sins and, that trying to make BS into his daughter is some messed up survivors guilt. I do wonder if there was supposed to be more to this story and, that they had to alter/delay it due to PB's personal issues.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I feel like it wouldn’t be a season of Arrow if we didn’t reach a point where we spent time trying to figure out if weirdly constructed plots were the result of poor writing or BTS issues derailing them.

Last year it was the Thea/Susan plot that seemed like it veered off course with Willa’s reduced availability and this year it’s the Quentin/BS plot. 

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This whole Lance storyline doesn't make sense to me unless its about him having a mental breakdown.Because it's not just that he wants to redeem BS.They don't seem to be setting it up in a way that he wants her redeemed because idk he wants every Laurel on every earth to be a hero or is someone who believes so much in second chances etc.It's literally him acting like this person who just looks like Laurel is Laurel and that he feels like she's his daughter and can replace her.And it got intense very suddenly when he realized she lost a father too and apparently now thinks this is the solution for both of them.He really doesn't seem to care that she killed people,including his former co-workers which is just very weird and pretty horrible.

And that I can't believe they would want to present as a healthy way to behave but who knows with this show.

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It’s weird also because last year Lance was the one to have the difference between his daughter and BS clear..it was Oliver who had troubles understanding. This year Oliver couldn’t care less about her and Lance is crazy obsessed. Like with Vigilante I guess we are supposed to forget what they were writing last year, lol

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15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

It’s weird also because last year Lance was the one to have the difference between his daughter and BS clear..it was Oliver who had troubles understanding. This year Oliver couldn’t care less about her and Lance is crazy obsessed. Like with Vigilante I guess we are supposed to forget what they were writing last year, lol

I'm really glad it's not Oliver this time.After being involved in kidnapping everyone he knows including the kid which lead to Samantha dying would have been tough to sell Oliver wanting to find good in her. I think it's fine to push that can't separate the E2 version thing for one episode when the characters encounter it for the first time but pushing it after the E2 version spent a season killing and working with any big bad available then it's just incredibly stupid and damaging the characters.I had hopes for Lance after he was so normal about BS at the end of season 5 but I guess someone had to be sacrificed for her to have a reason to be there.At least he's keeping her away from the main characters so far.

Edited by tangerine95
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2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I never really considered Malcolm redeemed until his S5 death where he took the landmine for Thea. In S3, S4 and LoT he was written as a villain (IMO) not even an anti-hero or morally gray, Malcolm was a straight up villain just not the Big Bad for that season. Although, in S4 (and LoT) he clearly worked for the Big Bad. 

Thing is, while Arrow went out of it's way to keep Malcolm/Barrowman around it was for obvious BTS reasons. Barrowman has street cred in the genre arena and the cast/crew/producers seem to like him. I can't say the same about KC. 

I'm thinking/hoping that the storyline is actually about Lance's guilt over LL dying for his sins and, that trying to make BS into his daughter is some messed up survivors guilt. I do wonder if there was supposed to be more to this story and, that they had to alter/delay it due to PB's personal issues.

Honestly neither did I but they did repeatedly try to say he did things for his daughter and I'm assuming they might do the same with BS...because Quentin looks like her dad. It's dumb but then this is Arrow. Haha.

Unless KC really is just here for one season, which I kinda doubt tbh, I do think they'll put her in a Malcolm Merlyn type role, which still wouldn't be the redemption her fans are hoping for. At least I'm assuming. Some might be cool with her playing villain? IDK.

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A problem is that Lance is also risking the lives of people who have had his back and saved him in the past for ... a villain who happens to look like his dead daughter but has tried to kill everyone in the past and worked with the main villains the past 2 years?

What if instead of looking at the photos of E1 LL, BS had attacked Lance and then Thea had come in to protect him and BS had made good on her whole putting her back in a coma line from 609? 

And it looks like BS ends up in ARGUS in 615. A teenager got her out of their custody last season. Say someone breaks her out again and they kill ARGUS guards. 

It seems like Lance is saying, “these other lives - including the life of the boyfriend of a woman who helped me keep a secret all summer - don’t matter as long as there’s a woman who looks like my daughter out there. And it’s not even about who she could be. It’s about who I want her to be, which is my dead daughter.”

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To a certain extent I do get it for him, but like MM its getting beyond a joke because they need to keep the actor. I doubt they'll kill her off or get rid of Tinah so no joining the team as BC#5, she'll be stuck in a repetitive cycle of will/won't they redeem her, probably with bonus Because Comics people predicting that Oliver will fall madly in love with her any day right now.

Its sad, I knew Lance would survive the explosion because of this storyline and I was glad, now I'm getting to the stage where I think it would serve him right if he died still trying to show her E1LLs baby pictures.

Edited by Featherhat
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I don’t think Vince is dead. IMO he will take a while to recover, this is Arrow after all. We have never actually seen him recover from his wounds. 

 

I do think Alena could be a villain. For all we know she could be Diaz’s daughter or sister. It would at least make the back half more interesting. 

Edited by BunsenBurner
Don’t know how to write a complete sentence.
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I hope that Vince isn't dead.  But it would be Arrow once again walking back a death so I don't how if they would do it.

6 hours ago, Chaser said:

I'm honestly expecting Lance to keep BS chained up in his guest room.  Play her his home videos of Laurel, show her slideshows of Laurel's great hits, give BS Laurel's old clothes to wear...etc. Showing BS videos of Laurel and telling her he sees his daughter in her eyes. It reads like he is trying to brainwash BS into thinking she is this Laurel he is talking about. It's so creepy.

I'd watch that.  Like an old time horror movie.

I'd enjoy this story more if it were about Quentin rather than Black Siren. As a villain she's not very complex.

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Richard Dragon of all people being the big bad just doesn't appeal to me. I was okay with Dragon being some sort of an enemy for Team Arrow at the beginning of the season but I became bored with the character and actor which is a shame since I liked him on Fringe.

tenor.gif

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3 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

Richard Dragon of all people being the big bad just doesn't appeal to me. I was okay with Dragon being some sort of an enemy for Team Arrow at the beginning of the season but I became bored with the character and actor which is a shame since I liked him on Fringe.

tenor.gif

He is going to 3-D print the bejeezus out of Star City!!!

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11 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Honestly neither did I but they did repeatedly try to say he did things for his daughter and I'm assuming they might do the same with BS...because Quentin looks like her dad. It's dumb but then this is Arrow. Haha.

Unless KC really is just here for one season, which I kinda doubt tbh, I do think they'll put her in a Malcolm Merlyn type role, which still wouldn't be the redemption her fans are hoping for. At least I'm assuming. Some might be cool with her playing villain? IDK.

 

It's the one good thing about if Lance really gets through to her and redeems her. Then I'd be certain they'd send her back to E2 or at that very least send her roaming the world looking to make up for her sins.  And then she probably would be mostly gone with only occasional visits like Nyssa.  

9 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

I don’t think Vince is dead. IMO he will take a while to recover, this is Arrow after all. We have never actually seen him recover from his wounds. 

 

I do think Alena could be a villain. For all we know she could be Diaz’s daughter or sister. It would at least make the back half more interesting. 

 

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I do think Vince is dead. It sets up Dinah's arc too well to undo since I assume they'll have Oliver get through to her again and thus getting her trust back maybe?  (Not that I think he needs to since she was the one...yeah old record at this point)

It's still possible that Alena could be the secret sister of Diaz and they've been planning this together.  It would at least make him pulling it off far more plausible but also would make me sad for Felicity but I guess she hasn't really had much personal betrayal beyond her dad so it's possible they could set up Felicity being betrayed by Alena and Curtis proving his loyalty? And thus another NTA member returns to the fold?

Can I just say I really hate my spec for both Dinah and Curtis but because I hate it, I now fear it will be true.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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Arrow: seems to somehow still expect us to want NTA to rejoin the team at some point. 

Also Arrow: gives us OTA acting like the adults to NTA’s whiny kids, may have Thea suiting up again (based on a BTS photo) and brings back Roy, Nyssa and Lyla, all people who can work with OTA when needed and who I’d trust to help when needed more than NTA (especially given NTA’s actions in 612)

Who will they bring back next? Rory? (I may never let that go. I’d even take his rags back even though they were ridiculous. Give me back the one newbie I liked!)

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Joe Dinicol seems free but I bet they don't bring him back even for one ep. I think if they were going to have Helena on this season (which they claim to be trying to make happen every season) I think she'd have been in the ep with/instead of her cousin. I'd like to see Sara back to talk some sense into her dad but they pretend she doesn't exist until big cross over time, also be nice to see her reconnect with Felicity and Dig and wipe the floor with the noob toddlers. 

I think they've also been trying to get Mari back but that's for LOT. 

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4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

On the one hand, a female Big Bad? Yay!! 

On the other hand, bringing back the League of Assassins? NoooOOOoooo

IKR? Why must this be such a double-edged sword. I'm so dick of the League of Assassins. Ugh.

On the other hand, I'm thrilled that we're getting some Lyla in our future. I wish Audrey Anderson could be a regular.

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