Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tv echo]

Speaking of interviews, I just posted another interview with Michael Emerson (Jan. 31, 2018 podcast, published today) in the Starling City Times thread, but no spoilers.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Last year I thought vigilante could become an interesting character but as the crazy guy that tried to kill Oliver, not as Dinah’s boyfriend that deep down might be a good guy. I know last year Dinah used to kill people as well but at least they weren’t good..in his case it’s like they are writing a different character. A more boring one.

[tv echo]

While the Parade article on Michael Emerson's interview contains no spoilers, the related podcast (dated Jan. 31, 2018) does contain the following spoilery hints from ME...

-- On what we can expect coming up on Arrow this season with respect to his character,  ME: "Well, you know, like in most tragic narratives, action narratives, things go from bad to worse. And so, Cayden James assumes an explosive amount of power and means to misuse it. And it will be a close call if the forces of good, Team Arrow, can thwart him in some way, because his array of powers are staggering." 

-- ME: "I like playing scenes where there's a lot of danger and there's a hidden agenda at work. I like balancing a couple of different things in a kind of breathless and hair-raising scene. So I've had scenes like that in a number of shows I've worked on. Quite a number of them on Lost for example, but also on Person of Interest. And there's some stuff that's really crackling in Arrow episodes that are coming up in January and February."

Article: https://parade.com/642630/nancyberk/showbiz-analysis-michael-emerson-talks-arrow-person-of-interest-and-technology/
Podcast: http://whineat9.com/?p=4120
(click "Download" button to listen)

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow: Johann Urb Digs Up Vigilante’s ‘Ancient History,’ Teases Team Up
by Meagan Damore   February 1, 2018
https://www.cbr.com/arrow-vigilante-johann-urb-interview/

Quote

CBR: In last week’s episode, Vigilante openly betrayed Cayden James. How would describe his mindset heading into tonight’s episode?
Urb: I think there’s a lot of — you know, the stakes are very high right now. Obviously, Cayden James is no dummy, so Vigilante is playing a very, very dangerous game, but the stakes couldn’t be higher so he’s doing the right thing. I think the love that he feels for Dinah and that connection really has made things a lot clearer for him, what’s important and what’s right. He’s not thinking about being a lone wolf anymore, but really also just getting some help from New Team Arrow and there’s trust that’s being built. Yeah, it’s an exciting time.

When it comes to Dinah and Vincent’s relationship, we’ve seen quite a bit of Dinah’s side of the story. Can you talk a little bit about the way he views Dinah?
From my perspective, Vigilante has been a lone wolf and really just doing what he thought was right this whole time. Nobody else was doing it. Green Arrow’s kind of gone soft on him, you know? So he filled those shoes basically, from his perspective. Then Dinah and what she’s up to and they’re just — gosh. I think the love — that reconnection — is really what is driving him right now, because he’s seen light again in his life. He’s not just a man on a mission of revenge and anger and hate, but really this is the relationship and the energy that’s pulling him out of that hole and making him more human again. It’s a beautiful, beautiful journey for him, and I think that in this next episode we’ll see some more of their history and how we got here and their connection. Everything is going to make a lot more sense as well.
*  *  *
Vigilante spent a lot of time lying low, using his death as a cover. Will we get a chance to see more of what he’s been up to since his alleged death?
We’re going to see some more sort of ancient history first, certainly. I mean, I think there’s a possibility and the show does a lot of flashbacks, so certainly there’s the chance of exploring that and I’m excited for that idea, certainly. Whether or not I can tell you if it’s happening or not, I can’t tell you, but I think that there’s certainly a lot of rich history to be explored there.

Despite their similarities, Vigilante and Green Arrow have a rather contentious relationship. How have recent events changed their dynamic?
I think, for Vigilante, he always just felt that Green Arrow just got soft, basically. You know, he wasn’t finishing the job, and not really realizing himself that he was perhaps pushing a little too hard, that you can achieve the same result by not going to the lengths that he was going to. I think Dinah, again, has really been very illuminating in that department, where he’s realized that there are other ways to bring people to justice than just to put a bullet in them. So through that journey as well, I think there’s more trust that’s being built. There’s going to be more seeing eye-to-eye more with the Green Arrow as well, and the possibility of working together or not having such a bad relationship. [laughs]

What is the transition from lone wolf to team player like for Vigilante?
I think, again, it comes down to the same thing we just talked about, which is realizing there are other ways to handle things. There isn’t just one way. Also, realizing there’s power in numbers and, because Vincent trusts Dinah, there’s really an opening there for teamwork. He feels that he can trust someone, and I think that’s a first in a long, long time and that’s what’s bringing him out of that darker phase of his life.
*  *  *
What character besides Dinah would you like to see Vigilante interact with more?
That’s a good question. I haven’t thought about that one. I think the Green Arrow would be good, because there’s been a lot of energy between those two guys. So there’s a lot of things there that could be explored. But the whole team is quite remarkable and amazing — or the two teams right now. So I think there’s a lot of possibility for a lot of different interesting dynamics and relationships and segues that could be taking place. So I’m open!

Do you have a favorite moment or scene that you can tease?
Gosh, there’s a lot of favorite moments in this episode. You know, there’s a lot of tension… I really love this episode.

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

So Vigilante is seeing "light again in his life" thanks to Dinah, who's "making him more human again." And he's coming out of "the darker phase of his life." And he's realizing that there are "other ways to bring people to justice" than just killing them. And he's transitioning from "lone wolf to team player." Sound familiar?

If Vince survives, maybe he'll change his alter ego name from "Vigilante" to something else - and become someone else.

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 6: Unmasking the Secrets of Vigilante
Kayti Burt   February 1, 2018
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow-season-6/270665/arrow-season-6-unmasking-the-secrets-of-vigilante

Quote

What can we expect to see from Dinah and Vince? "In this upcoming episode you see more of that [connection] and you see more of our past, flashbacks to our history," teased Urb.
*  *  *
What about the connection between Dinah and Vince? How does it fit into his character overall? While Johann wouldn’t spill any state secrets, he did tell us, "I think that the love is really strong, and the connection is really strong, and really that’s one of the major pulls for me in the character, as an actor, why I’m in allegiance with anyone, really. The love is what drives it for me."

That on-screen chemistry is based in a great working relationship between the actors themselves. "With Juliana," said Urb, "we just have a really beautiful friendship. We really like each other a lot so it’s been easy to connect and bring that connection to the screen."

Now that we have so many superhero shows and movies to choose from, it can be hard to remember what a breath of fresh air Arrow was when it first aired. As Johann says, "A lot of the superhero stuff is really black and white. That's fantasy, more than the grey area, which is where we all live. I think people make mistakes. People oscillate between being good and bad." That sort of character work is what drew an audience to the show in the first place. That kind of depth is a huge draw for actors like Johann.
*  *  *
Johann shared: "I really love shows and movies where [moral ambiguity] is happening. Because I feel like nothing in the world is black and white…It’s really fun to play a character that isn't one-dimensional, who has a lot of room to sort of play in both realms. It's like a hero's journey, where you go through the darkness to the light, or vice versa. It’s just more fun."

Of course there is such a thing as taking it to far, which Vigilante could very well do—or be made to do, by Cayden James. Choosing to work with Cayden James in the first place doesn't exactly inspire confidence, although Elena, Felicity, and the rest of Team Arrow are guilty of that as well.

"Yes, there's a red line," said Urb. "I think there’s certain things that Vigilante could do that would definitely feel like betrayal, and could be so deep that there’s no turning back, but we'll see how it goes."
*  *  *
Aside from the complex character work, Arrow allows Johann to show off his martial arts training.

Quote

I've done martial arts for most of my life, and it’s nice to be able to put a lot of your skills and your training into practice. And the cast and the crew and the stunt guys and coordinators and everyone is so good and so professional. It’s such a well-oiled machine that you just kinda fit right in and do what you do and they make you look good.

There's one other important relationship in Vigilante's life: Johann's frequent scene partner and genre legend, Michael Emerson. When asked about working with Michael, Johann immediately laughed. "Oh my god, you know sometimes, when I'm in a scene with him – I try not to do it in my close-ups – but I just watch him. He's so good and he's so interesting. You know sometimes I forget to actually act. I hope I haven’t messed him up or anything, but he can handle it. He's one of the most interesting actors I've ever had a chance to work with. I'm like in awe of him."

Vincent is a metahuman, one of the few that has been featured on Arrow. But so far, we’ve really only seen his healing ability – could there be other metahuman powers that have yet to be revealed? "Well, that remains to be seen, won't it? Let’s find out." That sounds like a definite maybe to me.

"Sneaky, sneaky," he chided. Just taking our cues from Vigilante himself!
*  *  *
"I think that most likely, people are warming up to Vigilante now, and starting to like him more. Especially now that he might be a good guy. I'm excited to see what the fans will say now."

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The headline is from the ScreenRant article (already posted on the previous page of this thread and in New Spoilers thread)...

[bijoux]

Well, that’s disappointing. I was really hoping Felicity would be pissed at Curtis after seeing the promo pics. I guess that’s just her intense planning look. At least Oliver still has plenty of bones to pick with Vince. Thank you for holding a very justified grudge, man.

[insomniadreams88]

Already revealed in the sneak peek -- Curtis. 

[strikera0]

Superpyroman has spoiled episode 13 in great detail on Reddit:

Quote

TL'DR: spoiler: Cayden is captured. Dragon kills Cayden.

Scene starts with Oliver and Diggle storming Cayden's hideout. Cayden knows

"We almost have proof that I didn't kill your son!"

Cayden doesn't believe them

Cayden will detonate a bomb at midnight as justice for his son

There's only 4 hours left

Felicity and Alena are fixing a footage? The footage of Oliver killing Cayden's son

Cayden wants his team to leave before the bomb goes off and the ransom will be split among

them. Promises to give some safe passage out of the city

Flashback to Cayden in Helix 16 months ago

He's hacking some black market thingy

Alena is a new recruit. She appears to be a fan of Cayden

His son, Owen is a college basketball player

Cayden missed the game. He is also divorced(?)

Cayden promises to be in the finals tomorrow night

Mayor's office or precint (not sure what) in panic

Oliver thinks the bunker is the only place that could survive the blast

Is he implying that he'd bring the citizens there?

Dragon thinks Cayden doesn't want them to leave because the said safe passage hasn't arrive

yet. BS agrees

Dinah is aggressively hunting for BS. She wants to murder BS. She doesn't care about the

bomb and the city

Video footage was decrypted or whatever you call it

Cayden's son was killed by some Carl Iskoff/Iskov whatever. An assasin who doesn't use a

bow but is using one in the footage. They theorized that maybe it was by request to frame

Oliver.

The assassin was assassinated after killing Owen lul

Team found Cayden. He's far away from the city

Oliver: "I have an idea"

Flash drops off Oliver and Diggle in front of Cayden's car

They show Cayden the actual footage of Owen's murder

Cayden says that it has the same tech that was used to frame Oliver as Green Arrow in

S06E01

Guy who uses that tech appears to be someone inside Cayden's team

Cayden orders Oliver and Diggle to find Dragon, BS and Anatoly

Felicity and Alena can't track them. Oliver agrees that they need the newbies help

BS is packing up, She has a picture with Sonuvabich. Or is this E-1 Laurel?

Dinah arrives. Cat (Canary? lol) fight ensues

Sonuvabich arrives. Dinah blasted him

Oliver arrives capturing both BS and Dinah

Team found Dragon's location

Flashback

Cayden's about to head out to see his son's game

Alena stops her because she knows that ARGUS has Cayden's scent and it's not a good idea to

go outside

Cayden still goes

Curtis and Rene caught Dragon wat

BS is handcuffed to the wall inside the Helix base. Katie Cassidy is hot yo

Sonuvabich doesn't want Dinah to kill BS. Didn't work. She'll kill BS after saving the city

Felicity and friends found Anatoly

Oliver apprehends him

They call Cayden. Cayden gave them an address

William listens in with a stolen earpiece

He goes to the meetup place wat

Oliver, Diggle, Dinah and Sonuvabich arrive with BS

William arrives too. Says he's scared he might lose Oliver like his mom on the island

Flashback

Cayden watches his son play in the finals

ARGUS guys arrives

Cayden pleads to watch the game first befre being taken in. Didn't work

Cayden surrenders peacefully

Some BS and Sonuvabich scenes. BS says she won't change like Vigilante. She says she likes

killing

Dragon, Anatoly, and newbies arrive

Cayden talks about his pain TL:DL

BS says she killed his son. Probably a bluff

Felicity and Alena detects some frequency spikes

Cayden's detonator is interfering with BS' collar

BS' colar breaks. Blasts off Cayden. Blasts off everyone.

She escapes. Dinah on pursuit

Anatoly overwhelms Curtis and Rene

Diggle and Dragon are on a fist fight

BS v Dinah part 2

Cayden is unconscious. William is trying to get Cayden's detonator. Cayden wakes up

Anatoly escapes. Dragon escapes

Dinah shot BS with Sonuvabich's gun

BS dies?

Oliver used Talk no Jutsu on Cayden and William

Oliver shot Cayden's hand. Detonator falls

Oliver and William are back in the bunker

Oliver promises to William that nothing will happen to him

Former team Cayden are now gone with the wind

Dinah thinks that they should find BS first

Newbies still won't join back team Arrow

Oliver visits Cayden in precint

Cayden cooperated with the police. He thinks his son would be ashamed of him for what he's

done. He also wants to visit his son's grave

Flashback

An ARGUS agent told Cayden that his son was murdered last night

BS wakes up in a car. Sonuvabich saved her

Sonuvabich still believes there is piece of Laurel left in her

CCTV in precint shuts down

Dragon enters the precint

Some of Dragon's line: Maybe non-verbatim

"I saw this playing out a lot of ways but I wasn't expecting this"

"You didn't really know anything, did you?

"This city.. It's prime for a takeover"

"Why destroy this city when you can take it over?"

The new police captain and a few other city officials are now in Dragon's payroll

He said something about Arclight helping in thinning the herd

Dragon stabs Cayden in the neck with a knife that looks like a Kunai or maybe a short knife

Cayden dies

"Tell your boy I said hello"

END--

Source

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by strikera0

[Primal Slayer]

Oh Arrow....so so SO predictable! 

So why is Siren suddenly anti CJ? Because he ordered her to kill? Explain some of this shit!

[insomniadreams88]

Thea: "Black Siren killed Vince." BS: "I like killing." Lance: "You can still be good maybe!"

I DON'T GET IT. PB deserves better.

[statsgirl]

11 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Flash drops off Oliver and Diggle in front of Cayden's car

Yeah. I don't think so.

[way2interested]

So was it Dragon who set Oliver up then? Or is it just still a mystery?

[Guest]

LOL that sounds so messy. And predictable. 

I can't believe they bought in Emmy award winning actor ME for that. Oh Arrow. 

[strikera0]

19 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Thea: "Black Siren killed Vince." BS: "I like killing." Lance: "You can still be good maybe!"

I DON'T GET IT. PB deserves better.

IMO, there's only one satisfying conclusion to this BS/Lance nonsense and that is for BS to kill him in cold blood. 

[tangerine95]

1 minute ago, strikera0 said:

IMO, there's only one satisfying conclusion to this BS/Lance nonsense and that is for BS to kill him in cold blood. 

I agree.For me Lance has passed the point of sympathy and just learning that BS isn't LL and his daughter is dead.Now that he's been ignoring BS killing innocent people,trying to kill everyone he knows and generally just being a psycho,Lance should suffer the consequences of that imo.I'm seriously rooting for this to end up with him getting killed.

[Belinea]

So, what is the outcome of Lance/BS going to be? Either Lance will be the biggest fool because he tries and fails with BS or he manages to redeem her and then what? Not-Laurel is back? Does the writing know what to do with her this time around?

And also, guess William isn't ok with Oliver being the GA after all. 

40 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Anatoly overwhelms Curtis and Rene

Also: Go Anatoly... 

[tangerine95]

I'm surprised about William,basically Felicity didn't get through to him as much as a thought.Feels pretty pointless to add that after 6.11 made it seem like he understood and that was done.Please let it be because they're preparing him to chose to go live with the grandparents that don't risk their lives fighting crime lol

[Guest]

You mean I'm gonna have to watch more of KA trying his hardest to be Marlon Brando in Godfather with that weird throaty way he talks but only makes me cringe? LOL.

[SmallScreenDiva]

35 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

IMO, there's only one satisfying conclusion to this BS/Lance nonsense and that is for BS to kill him in cold blood. 

I've a more satisfying conclusion. Lance kills BS in cold blood. Just a single shot to the head, and then he walks away from all this forever.

[Chaser]

That's hard to follow.

Basically, ME was wasted.

Lance is now a complete NUTTER

And if I'm understand this correctly: Alena joins Cayden and he immediately gets taken by Argus and someone from Cayden's own team fabricated the evidence against Oliver. That's suspicious.

[Balaclava]

So many questions...

Why is the kid in the middle of that mess? Shouldn't he be in school or something? Who thought this was a good idea and exactly who wants to watch that wooden actor even more? 

All of a sudden...Barry! Like you could have had ask for his help before you know? For more important things besides quick transportation mehh 

BS vs Dinah, Dinah vs BS it's like writers have a bet going on to see which bird can fans hate more 

oh Paul Blackthorne i'm so sorry you're yet again stuck with this stupidity of a SL, it's almost like arrow writers can't write for shit and have zero ideas 

And the final blow, so arrow gets this amazing actor on board just so they end up killing him after a stupid arc? 

Words, what words exactly should i use to express how sorry i am this is where we're at? What can i possible even say anymore to try and excuse or explain these decisions in SLs and season long arcs that make no sense and go nowhere? 

Do you all remember when we use to think ME and EBR wold share scenes because he was supposed to be her villain? Good times!  

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Alena joins Cayden and he immediately gets taken by Argus

That's in the flashbacks. Cayden's arrested by the SCPD and then they let Dragon in to kill him.

But I agree a lot of that was kind of a jumbled mess.

[insomniadreams88]

Is it just me or do we still not know exactly why ARGUS took Cayden? What made him more dangerous than every other hacker out there that ARGUS needed to take him into custody? And considering 613 is his last episode, I don't think we ever will know? 

[Chaser]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

That's in the flashbacks. Cayden's arrested by the SCPD and then they let Dragon in to kill him.

But I agree a lot of that was kind of a jumbled mess.

Right I thought that timing was interesting. Like she arranged for him to be taken in the first place so she can get her stuff in a row (the murder of his son, the evidence against Oliver and Argus to rough him up) and then get him broken out act on everything.

[tarotx]

34 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I've a more satisfying conclusion. Lance kills BS in cold blood. Just a single shot to the head, and then he walks away from all this forever.

Well that's what he was going to do to Zombie Sara. Who was his daughter at least to some degree. BS belongs to another Lance. Arrow is stupid trying this can BS be redeemed arc. At all but especially after they had the Earth X crossover. 

[Cleanqueen]

So dragon is the big bad? The one who set this all up for Cayden? 

[Primal Slayer]

I don't mind mini crossovers, in fact I enjoy them most of the time but not these kinds of crossovers. Having Barry speed the team somewhere but not hanging around is stupid! Barry shouldn't be used as a glorified Uber. 

Cayden James brought Black Siren into this so why doesn't he just find her and tell her to step down instead of using GA/Sp to bring her in? All of this is just bad storytelling. I could rework this into a much more compelling story just by moving some things around. 

I am surprised they are putting even half an ounce of effort into any kind of redemption to Siren but I still see it ending badly. Though at least I am not fully sure where they are going with it like I was with everything else. Shame they aren't talented enough to pull a similar thing to Faiths arc on Buffy/Angel. 

[lemotomato]

I didn't realize that the bar for "redemption" is set so low that showing a smidgen of hesitation about murdering is considered a redemption arc.

[Midnight Lullaby]

So much William...someone give me the strength, LOL. It makes more sense to me that he is afraid to lose Oliver but now I’m wondering if the people who wrote 611 and the ones that wrote the next episode talk to each other.

I find Barry randomly dropping by funny. I’m not against it but maybe it’s the fact that the guy didn’t give a more detailed recap that makes it seem weird/funny.

[Primal Slayer]

39 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Well that's what he was going to do to Zombie Sara. Who was his daughter at least to some degree. BS belongs to another Lance. Arrow is stupid trying this can BS be redeemed arc. At all but especially after they had the Earth X crossover. 

At least for me it is easier to think of redemption for BS then say E-Xers since E1/2 are more similar but diverged at somewhat specific points. E-X there entire history diverged from the war which lead to everyone only ever knowing the Nazi history and it being engrained in them. 

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I didn't realize that the bar for "redemption" is set so low that showing a smidgen of hesitation about murdering is considered a redemption arc.

For this show it is.

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

For this show it is.

That remains to be seen. KC/BS fans seem to think so, though.

[Primal Slayer]

Every story has a beginning and showing a shred of humanity can go a long way but we'll have to see where they go with it by 6x23. 

[Mary0360]

If Barry can get out of jail to play personal driver to Oliver, why doesn't he just get out of jail to try and stop the big bad of his show? 

[Cleanqueen]

They're dragging this story just so they can fulfill her contract and have Paul do something on the show. I know Marc said he wuoldnt kill her so I guess there is only two options 1) redeem her and she goes back to her earth in which case what was the whole point of Lance wanting his Laurel back? 2) She gets locked up by Argus and hopefully for good. I am going with the second option because that means they can bring her back for a one off stories if they dont have anyone next season. 

[tv echo]

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I didn't realize that the bar for "redemption" is set so low that showing a smidgen of hesitation about murdering is considered a redemption arc.

 

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

That remains to be seen. KC/BS fans seem to think so, though.

Not just her fans. In EW's Superhero Insider podcast this week, Natalie Abrams was hanging her hat on that hesitation in killing Vince to support her belief that BS could be redeemed...

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Not just her fans. In EW's Superhero Insider podcast this week, Natalie Abrams was hanging her hat on that hesitation in killing Vince to support her belief that BS could be redeemed...

Natalie Abrams is one of the biggest KC fans and is notorious for letting that bias influence her reporting. 

[insomniadreams88]

At this point, I feel like BS could kill a bus full of children and there would be some people going, "She can be redeemed!" 

I don't get why people are so against just letting BS be evil?

If E1 LL were still alive, no one would be talking about redeeming BS - fans, Lance, etc. If somehow E1 LL showed up, everyone would immediately want BS killed/shipped off to another Earth/locked up because she wouldn't be the "real LL."

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

So dragon is the big bad? The one who set this all up for Cayden? 

The 3D printer was the clue that should have made us realize he's computer savvy enough to pull this off!

1 hour ago, Mary0360 said:

If Barry can get out of jail to play personal driver to Oliver, why doesn't he just get out of jail to try and stop the big bad of his show? 

I was just about to ask if he was out of prison. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I don't get why people are so against just letting BS be evil?

From what I understand reading comments, tweets from BS/KC fans, the dream is for her to be redeemed, join Team Arrow as a frenemy but then eventually take over as BC ("because Dinah is NOT the real BC," you know) ... I'm not sure if the part about Oliver realizing he's always been in love with Laurel and that he just settled with Felicity is still part of it (it used to be before the wedding). But that's what I've seen. I'm sure there are fans who can (and will) correct me.

Edited February 2, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[lemotomato]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I don't get why people are so against just letting BS be evil?

As long as KC is still around playing someone, anyone, her fans think that they can still get the GA/BC endgame they want. That outcome is more likely if she didn't remain a homicidal maniac

[leopardprint]

So Myson voluntarily went to where the bad guys are? Like he wasn’t even kidnapped this time? 

I think they might as well have had WH wearing a fake moustache playing Cayden James and spent the extra money on sets if that is all they were going to do with him. I’m guessing scheduling conflicts is why ME was so criminally wasted because if this was by design they really need to get all new writers. 

[bijoux]

OMG, Roy comes back to save both Thea and Lance! PB gets another scene partner. Bless.

ETA: Is this Tracie Thoms? Will she guest star? I'm SO glad Roy's here for a few episodes and not just doing a fly by like in season 4.

Edited February 2, 2018 by bijoux

[Featherhat]

So .... Basically about what we've been guessing for weeks. Poor PB stuck in this plot, he's going to get himself killed for a "daughter" who is 99.99% gleeful murderer. It would make more senseif this was brainwashed E1 LL and we hadn't just had a crossover full of evil doppelgangers.

33 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

From what I understand reading comments, tweets from BS/KC fans, the dream is for her to be redeemed, join Team Arrow as a frenemy but then eventually take over as BC ("because Dinah is NOT the real BC," you know) ... I'm not sure if the part about Oliver realizing he's always been in love with Laurel and that he just settled with Felicity is still part of it (it used to be before the wedding). But that's what I've seen. I'm sure there are fans who can (and will) correct me.

Which again would be a billion times more likely if SA and KC ever seemed to be on set at the same time and Oliver gave any indication that he thought about BS any more than he wonders about that night's game. (He totally that nks about the game more than BS). Thea has been more concerned about a "redemption". 

If they were ever going to have them get back together it would have been in S4, before E1 LL died and she was face striking him. And its the icing on the shitty cake that was Lauriver if *can* end up with her doppelganger but never her. Now obviously who knows but really? And you say Olicity is a soap?

I doubt they'll kill her off again but if she's redeemed to basically E1 LL all the same problems will still be there.

Having said that, all it takes is cast departures and new show runners and who knows what fuckery might end up happening.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think the problem is the show..to me the idea of redemption for a woman that keeps killing and loves doing it is absurd. She isn’t right in the head. But also Dinah’s boyfriend seemed crazy last year too and now I guess I’m supposed to consider him redeemed? I think the show might redeem her but to me there’s nothing that can balance killing innocent people with not only no remorse but loving doing it. There’s Dinah too that is supposedly a hero and last year used to kill people and plans to get back to that. What’s acceptable on the show changes with the plot.

[calliope1975]

Well, one thing I know for sure, TPTB will put as much care and thought into Dick Dragon as the big bad as they have CJ. 

The only thing I don't *understand is why OTA would continue to ask NTA for help when they have repeatedly shown themselves to be hostile and, even worse, incompetent. (I know the actual answer is contractually required appearances.)

[lemotomato]

21 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think the problem is the show..to me the idea of redemption for a woman that keeps killing and loves doing it is absurd. She isn’t right in the head. But also Dinah’s boyfriend seemed crazy last year too and now I guess I’m supposed to consider him redeemed? I think the show might redeem her but to me there’s nothing that can balance killing innocent people with not only no remorse but loving doing it. There’s Dinah too that is supposedly a hero and last year used to kill people and plans to get back to that. What’s acceptable on the show changes with the plot.

This is a weird metaphor, but bear with me-- Vigilante and Dinah were more in the realms of "you have to crack a few bad guy eggs to make an omelette", a lot like season 1 Oliver. BS has been burning down whole hen houses and everything in them because she likes setting stuff on fire. The former I can kind of see justification for, but not the latter.

[Mellowyellow]

The spoilers don't give much detail but I just assumed William was worried about his dad and fretting a bit. Still makes sense in the context of 611. He can accept Oliver as GA but still fret about it. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

This is a weird metaphor, but bear with me-- Vigilante and Dinah were more in the realms of "you have to crack a few bad guy eggs to make an omelette", a lot like season 1 Oliver. BS has been burning down whole hen houses and everything in them because she likes setting stuff on fire. The former I can kind of see justification for, but not the latter.

I know the idea was to make vigilante like season 1 Oliver but the way they were writing him last year imo portrayed a guy with a few screws loose. Then I think they decided to make him Dinah’s boyfriend and because of that “redeemed” him. Oliver felt the burden of what he did, that’s the difference that makes a character redeemable and last year I didn’t see any of that with vigilante. The example with Dinah wasn’t to compare her to BS but to give an example of what I mean by the show not being clear about right and wrong..she is supposed to be a hero, someone that does good, has morals..all things I can’t reconcile with going on a murder spree but the show doesn’t seem to have a problem with the idea. It would make more sense to me if they showed that while in the past she killed to avenge her boyfriend now that she is a new person, she is BC, a hero won’t go down that path again.