Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

I can fanwank that Helix left behind a lot of tech.  (Oh, the irony of calling their company Helix and now Curtis is hiding out in the Helix den)

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

The only thing the mannequins accomplish is looking cool. It's not practical at all. So if they aren't copying, I'm not sure why they wouldn't just use hangers - getting your outfit on when you're in a hurry would be much faster/easier that way. 

To me it shows a lack of originality in the new team.  "We're going to be just like Team Arrow but better!! We're going to say 'Suit Up' all together!"

[insomniadreams88]

17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I can fanwank that Helix left behind a lot of tech. 

If this is the case, I want Cayden to start spying on the newbies through his computers and then go, “Nope. Not worth it. All they do is whine.” Maybe BS can then ask if she can kill them. 

[Mary0360]

I find it interesting the noobies are so preoccupied with OTA and if OTA are spying on them, and how much better they are then them, and how they can trust each other more then them. Meanwhile Oliver, Felicity and Diggle hardly give what NTA are up to a second thought, nor particularly bothered they aren't part of the team, even happier with the status quo. NTA are carrying around resentment, bitterness and slight jealousy that OTA just don't seem to carry around in return.

[Featherhat]

6 hours ago, Mary0360 said:

I find it interesting the noobies are so preoccupied with OTA and if OTA are spying on them, and how much better they are then them, and how they can trust each other more then them. Meanwhile Oliver, Felicity and Diggle hardly give what NTA are up to a second thought, nor particularly bothered they aren't part of the team, even happier with the status quo. NTA are carrying around resentment, bitterness and slight jealousy that OTA just don't seem to carry around in return.

And yet they are the ones who did the "dumping" hilarious. I do hope Felicity is pointing out how stupid it is to set up shop in Helix's old lair, surely they should have thought of that given how insanely upset they were about not being given the heads up they were compromised, by the dude who's old place you are now playing in, the one place you know he knows about. Felicity is not the one that has need to worry about. Sigh. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Featherhat

[WindofChange]

7 hours ago, Mary0360 said:

I find it interesting the noobies are so preoccupied with OTA and if OTA are spying on them, and how much better they are then them, and how they can trust each other more then them. Meanwhile Oliver, Felicity and Diggle hardly give what NTA are up to a second thought, nor particularly bothered they aren't part of the team, even happier with the status quo. NTA are carrying around resentment, bitterness and slight jealousy that OTA just don't seem to carry around in return.

And this is why I never bought the partnership. I don't think OTA particularly care for anyone in the new team all that much. I think they're inclusive and don't want them to get hurt or die, but they aren't close in any capacity. This lack of friendship and camaraderie made it more difficult to be invested in the new team, not only that but it makes it more difficult to see them as equals.

IMO it's too late to build those friendships between the new team and OTA especially after the way the new team behaved. Also, failing to build that solid foundation between the two teams before splitting them up was one of the writers' biggest mis-steps. Now, not only do I not care about the rift, I'm actually celebrating it because we're now getting the OTA moments we've been waiting for.

Edited January 28, 2018 by WindofChange

[JamieLynn832002]

I agree that the seeming lack of bonds between OTA and NTA is a large part of why this doesn't work. I feel like the writers forgot that Thea, Roy, Sara and Laurel all had relationships with OTA (and thus the viewers) that went beyond are also vigilantes. Rene and Dinah pretty much didn't exist to us before joining the team so why should we really care what happens to them after they pitch a fit and leave? Curtis existed before joining but has had a personality transplant into a hypocritical jackass since then so it's hard to care about him either. If they wanted to do Civil War story they should have at least shown us the immediate aftermath of Lian Yu which could have created a believable bond but they just skipped over it for no apparent reason.

[apinknightmare]

I was just thinking - since it seems like someone set Oliver up for Cayden James’ to blame him for his son’s murder, any chance that this person assembled the group of villains to go after Oliver and co and do the dirty work for him/her and then shows up toward the end of the season when they have all failed and is revealed as the true big bad? 

Just spitballing because I refuse to believe that Dick Dragon, 3D printer extraordinaire (or any of these other morons, really) is capable of anything worthy of dragging out another 11 eps. But this is Arrow, so....

[SmallScreenDiva]

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I was just thinking - since it seems like someone set Oliver up for Cayden James’ to blame him for his son’s murder, any chance that this person assembled the group of villains to go after Oliver and co and do the dirty work for him/her and then shows up toward the end of the season when they have all failed and is revealed as the true big bad? 

Just spitballing because I refuse to believe that Dick Dragon, 3D printer extraordinaire (or any of these other morons, really) is capable of anything worthy of dragging out another 11 eps. But this is Arrow, so....

That's my suspicion, too, especially with MG saying they're doing something they've never done before. A late Big Bad reveal could be that. They'd better have somebody more impressive than Michael Emerson, though, because yeah, if this turns out to be Ricardo Diaz ... ugh. 

[Sunshine]

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I was just thinking - since it seems like someone set Oliver up for Cayden James’ to blame him for his son’s murder, any chance that this person assembled the group of villains to go after Oliver and co and do the dirty work for him/her and then shows up toward the end of the season when they have all failed and is revealed as the true big bad? 

Just spitballing because I refuse to believe that Dick Dragon, 3D printer extraordinaire (or any of these other morons, really) is capable of anything worthy of dragging out another 11 eps. But this is Arrow, so....

Talia Al Ghul?

[Featherhat]

57 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I was just thinking - since it seems like someone set Oliver up for Cayden James’ to blame him for his son’s murder, any chance that this person assembled the group of villains to go after Oliver and co and do the dirty work for him/her and then shows up toward the end of the season when they have all failed and is revealed as the true big bad? 

Just spitballing because I refuse to believe that Dick Dragon, 3D printer extraordinaire (or any of these other morons, really) is capable of anything worthy of dragging out another 11 eps. But this is Arrow, so....

That's kind of what I've been assuming since Team "bad guys" are going to be left a lot lacking in comparison to the LOD over on Legends both last season's and this.

I suppose they could try to pretend Dick Dragon is just playing stupid but I'm not sure I'd believe KA in that role. Some one who can play a Keyzer Soze, convincing the world he didn't exist, but also needs to be someone for Oliver to fight with. Unless they plan on having Felicity go out in a blaze of glory fighting Alena or something.

Talia might work for that and it would fit with Nyssa coming back. But whilst I like Lexa Doig a lot her Talia wasn't the best.

[kes0704]

If it’s Talia then I will be disappointed that it’s another League of Assassins adjacent plot. We’ve been there, we’ve done that...multiple times.

Plus, instead of being an Oliver killed my son revenge plot, it becomes an Oliver killed my father revenge plot, which was done in S5. 

I’m really hoping that the “hard right turn” MG talked about is actually surprising and that the villain is someone we aren’t expecting and something we haven’t seen before. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by kes0704

[BkWurm1]

I feel bracing for disappointment is the wise course of action.

[Morrigan2575]

I just assumed the Hard Right was specific to Cayden James. Basically knocking off the "big bad" early or having James surrender, kill himself, etc.

Switching Big Bads isn't really new or a hard left. They did that in S2 where Blood started out as the "Big Bad" only to reveal Slade being his boss. To a lesser extent they did the same with S1/S5 with The Dark Archer/Prometheus being the big bad and Malcolm/Chase being "good guy's" only to reveal dun dun dun they're the same person!

Something new/different/hard right, to me would be someone from Team Baddie killing James to take control or James just giving up and then someone else taking control.

Maybe, maybe a situation where they wrap up Team Baddie (all of them) by 615 then set up a totally different unrelated villain for 616-623 or even 616-S7.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[SmallScreenDiva]

24 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Switching Big Bads isn't really new or a hard left. They did that in S2 where Blood started out as the "Big Bad" only to reveal Slade being his boss. To a lesser extent they did the same with S1/S5 with The Dark Archer/Prometheus being the big bad and Malcolm/Chase being "good guy's" only to reveal dun dun dun they're the same person!

In the Dark Archer and Prometheus' cases, we'd met the alternate personas before the reveal. I was thinking a different kind of Big Bad Switch would be introducing someone entirely different, someone unheard of before. Although introducing somebody this late in the game seems really odd.

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

In the Dark Archer and Prometheus' cases, we'd met the alternate personas before the reveal. I was thinking a different kind of Big Bad Switch would be introducing someone entirely different, someone unheard of before. Although introducing somebody this late in the game seems really odd.

If they did that, then I'd hope its something totally new. Get rid of all of team baddie in 615, wrap that entire storyline up and, then introduce a while new, totally unrelated Big Bad (maybe what Nyssa is doing). That would be different/new. Getting rid of James just to reveal that Talia or Dragon was pulling the strings all along is the same as S2 with Blood/Slade.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I was thinking maybe they'd bring in someone we hadn't seen or heard of before. I think that getting rid of Cayden only to have one of the other losers he's working with step up to be the big bad would be stupid (although I am bracing for it). 

[way2interested]

Quote

if they really want to throw us something out of left field, they could have Owen be the one who framed Oliver. Have Cayden not be as great a father as he claims, and this is all a twisted revenge plot with Cayden as the target and Oliver is just collateral. They can insert some quasi philosophical commentary on bad fathers and draw some kind of parallel between Oliver as a son and Owen as a son. Maybe make it into a lesson for Oliver on what kind of father he wants to be. That sounds like something they'd get a kick out of. 

It could at least possibly explain who maybe one of the guys who is in this pic is 

Thought originally it might have just been stunt doubles or something but now with Vince possibly a good guy, Boots being dead, KA still being in the pic, and having no idea where this even is...maybe?

[BkWurm1]

I would be astounded if they managed to keep something like that secret though.  

[Primal Slayer]

I saw it suggested that William is the real big bad of the season and I am 100% here for it. 

[BkWurm1]

The time traveling offspring is on the Flash though, not Arrow.  

[Primal Slayer]

He isn't time travleing. He is a diabolical tween getting revenge on his father for getting his mother killed and has secretly been master minding everything. 

[apinknightmare]

24 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

The time traveling offspring is on the Flash though, not Arrow.  

Disregard - I misread the comment, haha

Edited January 29, 2018 by apinknightmare

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I would be astounded if they managed to keep something like that secret though.  

Well, they kept Chase being Prometheus a secret for quite a while and with their super secret no pics policy style on Arrow now, I guess I wouldn't be surprised at anything now.

[Chris24601]

I'd be fine if Cayden just whacked all the newbies on the way out the door in 615 which causes Thea to come out of retirement for the sake of the team and we get a brand new Big Bad for the back half that could be tackled by just Ollie, Dig and Thea in the field.

Or maybe Curtis can be the new Big Bad (secretly replaced by his evil Earth-2 duplicate, explaining the personality transplant) with Rene and Dinah as his minions. In the end, Ollie has to kill them all to save the city.

Or Rory/Ragman comes back because he needs help with some new super villain and, after realizing what jerks NoTA decides he needs competent people to help with this crisis and goes to OTA. NoTA tries to deal with the problem themselves to prove how wrong Rory was to not pick them and are all killed horribly by the new super villain as an example of his wickedness... but instead just makes him the most popular villain in Arrow history.

[Primal Slayer]

I miss all the people who use to spoil things left and right but I guess good for teh show for running them off?

[Guest]

What if...the newbies are the real big bad? ?

[leopardprint]

23 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

What if...the newbies are the real big bad? ?

They do seem to have done more harm than the salad bowl of villains. 

[TwistedandBored]

57 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

What if...the newbies are the real big bad? ?

They might not make them the real big bad of this season but they could end up winning the Susan award this year.

The Susan award goes to Arrow characters that are not necessarily bad but hated by the fans more than the Big Bad of the season for their lack of uselessness and onscreen time usage. 

[Trisha]

I have no idea how legit this is but someone on R*ddi is claiming Vincent dies in the next episode 

[Guest]

Meh. I’d guessed that was gonna happen tbh. Though I didn’t expect BS to be the one to kill him, I thought it’d be some kind of sacrifice on his part. 

What a waste? I feel like his character amounted to nothing in the end. That’s what you get for making it all about Dinah. ?

[Primal Slayer]

I fully expected Siren to kill Vigilante, that will be a driving force for Dinah to attempt to kill her and her line to Quentin about deserving to die. 

[apinknightmare]

RIP Milky Eye, if you actually die. We hardly knew ye. Your death will fuel Dinah’s womanpain even though you gave her a black eye. So long!

[Guest]

Remember when they said Vigilante would be someone we knew? ???

[kes0704]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Remember when they said Vigilante would be someone we knew? ???

Turns out he was someone we didn’t know and didn’t really care about...and then they linked him to Dinah. 

If BS kills Vigilante do you think that lowers the chances of her getting any sort of redemption arc?  

[Mary0360]

3 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

If BS kills Vigilante do you think that lowers the chances of her getting any sort of redemption arc?  

Hopefully at the very least it will finally wake Quentin up to the fact that she's NOT HIS DAUGHTER. 

[Primal Slayer]

8 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

Turns out he was someone we didn’t know and didn’t really care about...and then they linked him to Dinah. 

If BS kills Vigilante do you think that lowers the chances of her getting any sort of redemption arc?  

I dont see them attempting 2 redemption's in a season so yes.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Primal Slayer

[statsgirl]

Well we kind of knew him after the Dinah flashback episode. And then we didn't know him because he was working undercover.

If BS kills Vince, even less chance she'll be redeemed by the end of the season and end up working with Team Arrow (she said, having just watched what happened to Lorca on ST: Discovery).  Although at this point, would she really be that much worse than NTA?

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Talia might work for that and it would fit with Nyssa coming back. But whilst I like Lexa Doig a lot her Talia wasn't the best.

To be fair, she didn't have much to work with.

But if it's Talia, then that makes three seasons that the LoA has been a key player on the show, four if you count s1.  That's too many.

If there is someone completely different, he/she will have to be introduced soon. Also, how will they be able to resist the press releases about the new actor who is coming on the show. . Maybe it's Cayden James' son. Or Alena.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

Turns out he was someone we didn’t know and didn’t really care about...and then they linked him to Dinah. 

If BS kills Vigilante do you think that lowers the chances of her getting any sort of redemption arc?  

Vigilante would’ve been much more interesting if he’d been someone the audience knew from like s1 or something. Making him Dinah’s boyfriend was the dumbest move ever. I lost all interest in him from that moment on. 

As for BS, I still think she’s gonna get the Malcolm Merlyn treatment. 

[Trisha]

11 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Hopefully at the very least it will finally wake Quentin up to the fact that she's NOT HIS DAUGHTER. 

There’s that bit in the extended trailer with Quentin and Dinah arguing about someone deserving to die, so I’m guessing he’s going to keep trying to redeem her. And if BS shows even a little hesitation before she does it (which she might, if that Cayden quote about questioning her loyalty is true) the show might still try it. 

I don’t get the point of introducing the Vigilante last season and not bothering to really begin to develop him until the last ep, only to kill him off in the next one.  On the plus side: if Cayden is leaving soon too maybe Anatoly steps into the villain spotlight? As long as it’s not Dragon...

Edited January 29, 2018 by Trisha

[insomniadreams88]

So I guess Vince can’t heal from BS’ scream?

Yeah, I don’t see how they can redeem BS after that. 

Honestly? I don’t hate Vince. I still wish we could’ve kept him (occasionally, based out of another city and showing up every so often) and gotten rid of the newbies by season’s end. 

[calliope1975]

Well, that seems like a waste, so just about right for Arrow. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Although at this point, would she really be that much worse than NTA?

However much they annoy the eff out of me, the idiots haven't gleefully killed anybody. So they're better, barely.

At this point, if the show doesn't know what to do with Quentin, I'd rather BS kills him so we can stop with this stupid redemption debate.

[Hiveminder]

2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

I'd be fine if Cayden just whacked all the newbies on the way out the door in 615 which causes Thea to come out of retirement for the sake of the team and we get a brand new Big Bad for the back half that could be tackled by just Ollie, Dig and Thea in the field.

Or maybe Curtis can be the new Big Bad (secretly replaced by his evil Earth-2 duplicate, explaining the personality transplant) with Rene and Dinah as his minions. In the end, Ollie has to kill them all to save the city.

Or Rory/Ragman comes back because he needs help with some new super villain and, after realizing what jerks NoTA decides he needs competent people to help with this crisis and goes to OTA. NoTA tries to deal with the problem themselves to prove how wrong Rory was to not pick them and are all killed horribly by the new super villain as an example of his wickedness... but instead just makes him the most popular villain in Arrow history.

I'm fine with any of these.

[leopardprint]

14 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So I guess Vince can’t heal from BS’ scream?

Yeah, I don’t see how they can redeem BS after that. 

Honestly? I don’t hate Vince. I still wish we could’ve kept him (occasionally, based out of another city and showing up every so often) and gotten rid of the newbies by season’s end. 

Idk could it be a misdirect? He gained powers at the same time as Dinah so perhaps he's got some resistance against it? 

He's pretty much the only villainish person I find interesting since they mysoned Cayden James. 

Also I feel like Anatoly has been too quiet, maybe he does end up as the big bad? 

Edited January 29, 2018 by leopardprint

[Hiveminder]

4 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Idk could it be a misdirect? He gained powers at the same time as Dinah so perhaps he's got some resistance against it? 

He's pretty much the only villainish person I find interesting since they mysoned Cayden James. 

Also I feel like Anatoly has been too quiet, maybe he does end up as the big bad? 

Honestly, I'm not excited by that idea, but at least it would be better than what we've gotten from him so far. I've been fairly disappointed by Anatoly this season. 

[Primal Slayer]

32 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So I guess Vince can’t heal from BS’ scream?

I think they are treating him like they did Claire in Heroes. The brain is his weakpoint so damage that and you damage him. Or they dont know about his healing ability and he will end up bouncing back after a couple of days.

[apinknightmare]

The brain is the weak point for a lot of people on this show. 

[kes0704]

26 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Honestly, I'm not excited by that idea, but at least it would be better than what we've gotten from him so far. I've been fairly disappointed by Anatoly this season. 

I honestly can’t remember what Anatoly has done up to this point.  The cabal of villains has been a little underwhelming and I’m not even sure why they all decided to band together.

I feel like I’ve missed some important plot points somewhere along the way.

[lemotomato]

24 minutes ago, Trisha said:

There’s that bit in the extended trailer with Quentin and Dinah arguing about someone deserving to die, so I’m guessing he’s going to keep trying to redeem her.

If Lance is trying to plead BS's case to Dinah after she has to watch BS murder her boyfriend, there's no redeeming Lance's character for me. He'd have to be delusional to still hang on to that hope. 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm guessing that Dinah goes full throttle on Siren and beats her to near death but then Quentin pleads with her or Dinah goes all "Im better then you" which leads to Siren in Argus custody licking her wounds.