Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

Can they stop using William as bait for villains? Maybe Oliver and Felicit should look into Dig and Lyla' babysitter(s).  Baby Sara had both parents in dangerous jobs and I only remember her being in immediate danger was during the Al Sahim phase. And I guess that S4 chase. Even though that's stuck in my mind as cool, not dangerous for some reason.

Does the filming of 611 coincide with the time SA posted the pic of himself, EBR and Jack Moore, where the kid looked bruised? Just leave him alone, writers. Although I guess this could pave the way towards a reconciliation between Oliver and Rene. Whatever. 

[apinknightmare]

It's possible that William gets caught up in it by virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time instead of directly targeted (based on the way the summary is written). I'm hoping it goes that way at least. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by apinknightmare

[way2interested]

Just now, bijoux said:

Does the filming of 611 coincide with the time SA posted the pic of himself, EBR and Jack Moore, where the kid looked bruised? Just leave him alone, writers. Although I guess this could pave the way towards a reconciliation between Oliver and Rene. Whatever.

Yeah, that was during filming 611 I think .

Just now, apinknightmare said:

It's possible that William gets caught up in it by virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time instead of directly targeted (based on the way the summary is written). I'm hoping it goes that way at least. 

That's how I took it too, since they specified "crosshairs" and just being endangered rather than straight up kidnapped or anything. If anything, it just probably pushes the plot of having William find out that Oliver is still being the GA.

[lemotomato]

I know not to put much stock into the episode descriptions, but why is it only on Oliver and OTA to take down Cayden James. WTF are Team Newbie Vigilantes doing about the threat, sitting on their butts complaining?

Edited January 5, 2018 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I know not to put much stock into the episode descriptions, but why is only on Oliver and OTA to take down Cayden James. WTF are Team Newbie Vigilantes doing, still sitting on their butts complaining?

It could be that Oliver doesn't want their help - the way it's written it could be that he's determined to do it without them because he doesn't want any help, or because they're off doing something else. I'm guessing Team Arrow and the Newbies may have two different tactics that wind up messing each other up - and that's where the "divided we fall" comes from?

Edited January 5, 2018 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I know not to put much stock into the episode descriptions, but why is it only on Oliver and OTA to take down Cayden James. WTF are Team Newbie Vigilantes doing, still sitting on their butts complaining?

Dinah and BS will be busy having a scream-off. 

I just hope they don't have the newbies save William, thereby showing Oliver he does need them and look, instantly forgiven for everything because they saved his son. 

[Lady Calypso]

This is the THIRD TIME William's been kidnapped/endangered since he first appeared on the show. Come ON!

This is why kids don't belong on these types of shows. It's very, very easy to default an episode to "Kid gets caught in the crossfire". I mean, a monkey could write that episode. It's not an original idea and it just goes to show how uncreative it is. And it's just going to be a predictable episode. Oliver tries to stop Cayden, Cayden kidnaps William or endangers him, Oliver needs help of NTA to get him back/stop Cayden James, thus the start of the team getting back together, where Oliver has to grovel for help...or something. 

This isn't the first time I've thought that Oliver didn't need to apologize to other people or to ask for help either. It's happened with Laurel, Diggle, and even Felicity. This is just shit writing to start putting Team Arrow back together, and to....I guess reveal to William that Oliver is still fighting as Green Arrow? 

On the plus side, Oliver MIGHT ship William and Raisa off until the end of the season for protection, so we might actually get a break with Daddy Oliver. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

This is why kids don't belong on these types of shows. It's very, very easy to default an episode to "Kid gets caught in the crossfire". I mean, a monkey could write that episode. It's not an original idea and it just goes to show how uncreative it is. And it's just going to be a predictable episode. Oliver tries to stop Cayden, Cayden kidnaps William or endangers him, Oliver needs help of NTA to get him back/stop Cayden James, thus the start of the team getting back together, where Oliver has to grovel for help...or something. 

William also needs to find out that Oliver's been lying to him and going out as Green Arrow - no better way to reveal that than to have Oliver rescue him in the hood. 

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

On the plus side, Oliver MIGHT ship William and Raisa off until the end of the season for protection, so we might actually get a break with Daddy Oliver. 

I actually hope they don't go this route, because it's way too similar to season 4's "Oliver thinks he can juggle vigilante-ing and having a normal life except NOPE, he can't because he lies! And the people he loves get targeted! So he sends them off for their own good!" storyline. 

It's the 6th season for heaven's sake. The show needs to let him have something good and normal, or at least have him be really close to figuring out how, without the same old self sacrificing bullshit.

[way2interested]

Just now, lemotomato said:

I actually hope they don't go this route, because it's way too similar to season 4's "Oliver thinks he can juggle vigilante-ing and having a normal life except NOPE, he can't because he lies! And the people he loves get targeted! So he sends them off for their own good!" storyline. 

It's the 6th season for heaven's sake. The show needs to let him have something good and normal, or at least have him be really close to figuring out how, without the same old self sacrificing bullshit.

Technically, he can't just step away this time. He's married and has a family and is the mayor of the city. At this point the writers basically are forcing themselves to write a scenario where he has to develop since now sacrificing aspects of his life would just be too messy to write (ex: they can't just have Oliver give up being the mayor-they already did that plus it's been built up too much, they can't just have Oliver ship his kid away soonish because that story has also been built up too much, Oliver and Felicity can't break up at this point because they're married, etc.). At this point they just have to keep moving forward vs last year where it was literally all about past issues coming back to haunt you.

Still thinking it's going to come down to a plot  for Oliver and William to have the obligatory confrontation about Oliver being GA, OTA needing the newbies to take down a big bad, and Newbies needing OTA/Oliver perspective and help.

[Morrigan2575]

I hate that write up. They're going to make Oliver and OTA wrong ?

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

Still thinking it's going to come down to a plot  for Oliver and William to have the obligatory confrontation about Oliver being GA, OTA needing the newbies to take down a big bad, and Newbies needing OTA/Oliver perspective and help.

This is the way I think it should turn out. And tbh, if William and maintaining a real life are the reasons why Oliver has to be the bigger guy and take the newbies in again after the way they crossed him and flounced out, I can live with that. 

[leopardprint]

So...Rene and Co are going to save Myson and redeem themselves? 

Edited January 5, 2018 by leopardprint

[insomniadreams88]

I'm already picturing 611 going, "okay, so Cayden's targeting X, Y, Z, what's going on at those places today?" "Hmm, nothing here, nothing there, hmm, class trip there, wait, that's where William's field trip is!" Cue Oliver rescuing William as the Green Arrow - maybe with the newbies taking care of random thugs 1, 2, 3, etc., when he realizes he's going to need help since Diggle can't come in the field with him (I'm assuming that'll still be true then?) and possibly after an attempt to take care of everything on his own - and William immediately knowing it's his father. Cue conversation about Oliver going out as the Green Arrow and lying to his son about it. 

As for the team inevitably coming back together, I just don't want the newbies to expect to be on the same level as OTA and I don't want the show to put them on that level when that happens. Curtis better get over his feelings about that division ASAP (a.k.a. before the team's back together). 

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I know not to put much stock into the episode descriptions, but why is it only on Oliver and OTA to take down Cayden James. WTF are Team Newbie Vigilantes doing about the threat, sitting on their butts complaining?

Probably still drunk. 

[way2interested]

35 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

This is the way I think it should turn out. And tbh, if William and maintaining a real life are the reasons why Oliver has to be the bigger guy and take the newbies in again after the way they crossed him and flounced out, I can live with that. 

That's what I think is actually going to happen. Oliver's growth would just be accepting that to have it all he needs help (since from the description it comes down to more stubbornness in overconfidence than actually being wrong in this situation) after something bad happens to William, and the newbies probably not accepting it and then pushing themselves more in the wrong.

[BkWurm1]

Clearly being the Green Arrow has grown to the point where one man in the field isn't enough and so fine, I get making up with Dinah and Curtis but how can they let Rene back?  Won't they have to undo whatever deal he has with FBI lady?  

Incidentally, I'm doing a rewatch and in episode 5 Rene gets the order to go into see Samanda and then in episode 6, he's stress eating for no apparent reason.  I remember at the time thinking stress eating just because they were going after the Dragon made no sense.  Now we know he was probably trying to decide to roll over or not.   At least there was ONE thing that hinted at his betrayal.  

[Midnight Lullaby]

I wouldn’t be fine with it because helping Oliver save Myson wouldn’t solve their issues. Of course they’d help Oliver like Oliver would help save WD’s daugther in that situation, none of them is that awful to refuse to help when one of their kids is in danger, but after the mission there would still be WD that will testify to send Oliver to jail and that doesn’t want to follow orders in the field, Dinah that thinks meeting in secret with a villain is cool and the newbies as a whole not trusting OTA. They all need to face what they have done wrong and start over if they want to be a team again, not getting back together out of necessity..or sooner or later they’ll have the exact same issues.

[BkWurm1]

Ugh.  Got to the 7th episode of my rewatch, when Oliver is arrested and even scene of Rene makes me hate him even more.  Even in this episode, he's all worried about his butt rather than Oliver's.  I'm never getting over this.  Maybe they really will write out WD?  Have him take his kid and retire to some other town.  Make it a contrast to whatever choice Oliver makes with William.  

Edited January 5, 2018 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

It's interesting to watch "Thanksgiving" with future knowledge.  Like I said before, Rene is even harder to watch but plot hole, there's a point when Cayden James is confused by why GA is not running into the fight with the rest of the team which to me implies he has no clue about Diggle's issues with the tremor which he totally would know about if he was checking the camera they'd planted weeks ago.  

[LeighAn]

So newbies save William and what Oliver is just expected to forgive them and forget that 1 team member was willing to hand him over to the FBI for self gain, another has been in dialogue with the enemy and the last one is a whiny baby who hates and is jealous of Olivers marriage? 

[tangerine95]

Idk what I hate more,another William in danger plot or a William in danger bringing the newbies and OTA back together lol

Seriously tho how many times will they do the kid gets kidnapped or targeted thing,you'd think since it was the plot of his first appearance on arrow and then again in the last episodes of season 5 that they would give it more time before repeating it.But then when I think of Thea and all the times she's been in the hospital and in a coma,its not that surprising.I would love if this results in William finally being sent away to live with the grandparents but I'm not getting my hopes up tho.

Edited January 5, 2018 by tangerine95

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

the last one is a whiny baby who hates and is jealous of Olivers marriage? 

They really need to walk back the whole "Team Arrow destroyed my marriage" thing with Curtis because it makes zero sense since he volunteered for the team. He could have quit at anytime  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Enough people are already annoyed with him this season. I have zero tolerance for these types of storyline.

[Primal Slayer]

We all knew this was going to happen sooner or later so I just had to laugh when reading the description. 

[Guest]

Wow. William gets caught up in the mess again. I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you! ? ?

The only thing I will accept, somewhat grudgingly, is if they wrap this whole thing up with OTA accepting they need the newbies help (I hate it but I can appreciate that there are more things going on in OTA's lives than there were a couple of years ago) but also the newbies admitting that they need OTA's experience. It has to be a shared thing of needing each other. I will riot if all of the blame somehow falls on OTA. Because that's only going to make me more resentful of the newbies than I am already. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Guest

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

Can they stop using William as bait for villains?

 

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

On the plus side, Oliver MIGHT ship William and Raisa off until the end of the season for protection, so we might actually get a break with Daddy Oliver. 

I think it's time for William to take a long, extended visit to his grandparents house. Even 2nd Baby Sara got to be a BAMF motorcycle riding bebeh. Why'd they get rid of the coolest kid on any of these shows?/bitter

Is this the ep that the BTS picture came from with SA, EBR, and whatever William's actor's name is where he's got the cut on his head?

Even if the newbs save William, I still don't know how they could ever trust Rene again. It'll be handwaved away like everything else, but I'll be sideeyeing him for a long time. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don’t think they’ll put the team back together already by the way..but it might be because I took what happened as a bigger problem than the writers..but WD still needs to testify so I was thinking they were going to wait for that to have him change his mind so they can forgive him..still I think the problem is that he isn’t made for this life..he is a liability and life as a civilian with his daughter would be a better fit for a guy not that strong willed and not that hard to manipulate.

[Primal Slayer]

I would be surprised if we make it to a trial. If we do get one, it'd be extremely useless if Oliver comes out unscathed. This storyline cant be wrapped up in a pretty bow like the Island explosion was...Oliver needs to be outed or someone needs to leave the team permanently. 

[DeadZeus]

Called it from the moment the team "broke up" that Oliver is going to struggle and need their help... HATE IT. Let Oliver prove he can do solo aswell.. Having a team is a good way to lessen the burden but  i hate that the y write him to be hopeless without the noobs...

After such a long time of being a badass he should be more than capable to save his own son.

I mean... In season 2 Oliver went through like 20 bad guys to save Thea (who was already released by Slade but still...) Oliver was pissed and that action scene really showed it.. Why don't they do something like this? Letting Oliver loose on his son's kidnappers would be great to see.. Instead he will beg on his knees for the Noob's help? Screw these writers for real...

[BkWurm1]

49 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I would be surprised if we make it to a trial. If we do get one, it'd be extremely useless if Oliver comes out unscathed. This storyline cant be wrapped up in a pretty bow like the Island explosion was...Oliver needs to be outed or someone needs to leave the team permanently. 

I think there's a good chance it will go to trial and Oliver will be found not guilty and then double jeopardy will come into play.  If Oliver can't be tried again for being the Green Arrow, then he could at least per TV logic announce to the world that he IS the Green Arrow and not be arrested.  

He wouldn't be let off the hook for any future crimes and it would put a target on the back of all his friends, family, and associates but hey, it would give them their supposed gotcha moment.  

[Primal Slayer]

Assuming Arrow follows real life logic.

[BkWurm1]

38 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Assuming Arrow follows real life logic.

Real life logic would include separate prosecution being possible for federal and state not to mention civil vs criminal or finding specific crimes not previously charged.  But this is not real life logic.  

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

Real life logic would include separate prosecution being possible for federal and state not to mention civil vs criminal or finding specific crimes not previously charged.  But this is not real life logic.  

Well we know that much.

[statsgirl]

20 hours ago, bijoux said:

 

i wonder if Rene still works at the City Hall. Just because Thea is there so maybe she can slap him around for a bit. Sure, she was a cool head in the last episode, but I still feel she’d be beyond pissed at him for doing what he did, only not expressing it in front of Oliver.

If they write her in character,  the The a who went after Susan last season,  she should take his head off and hand it back to him in a plate. But I don't trust this show not to try to redeem Rene even now.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If they write her in character,  the The a who went after Susan last season,  she should take his head off and hand it back to him in a plate. But I don't trust this show not to try to redeem Rene even now.

Thea already talked to Oliver about how trying to see it from Rene's perspective and finding a way to forgive him is the right thing to do - she doesn't seem too mad about it.

[statsgirl]

I'm okay with Oliver accepting that he needs more than just Diggle and Felicity, after all that's what s5 was about,  But I'm damned if I know why he has to rely on someone who has betrayed him twice and two whiners one of whom is still keeping secret from them. Oliver deserves better than that.

Unless the point of them is to make me appreciate the Laurel Black Canary days. Even at her most entitled  she was never this bad.

25 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Thea already talked to Oliver about how trying to see it from Rene's perspective and finding a way to forgive him is the right thing to do - she doesn't seem too mad about it.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of, that they're going to use her to get Oliver to take Rene back. Not the Thea who felt she had to protect Oliver from Susan or who left town because her family was lying to her.

[JamieLynn832002]

I think I kind of want Susan to be the surprise Big Bad of the season. I also kind of don't because I have no desire to see her again but if she were, at least I'd finally understand the point of her. I feel like the faked Oliver-as -GA photo originating at Channel 52 (which I think is where she worked) has to mean something.

[strikera0]

11 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm okay with Oliver accepting that he needs more than just Diggle and Felicity, after all that's what s5 was about,  But I'm damned if I know why he has to rely on someone who has betrayed him twice and two whiners one of whom is still keeping secret from them. Oliver deserves better than that.

I think I am having a brain freeze at the moment, but which secret are you referring to? The group knows about Vigilante by now, don't they?

[Morrigan2575]

40 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

I think I am having a brain freeze at the moment, but which secret are you referring to? The group knows about Vigilante by now, don't they?

They don't know that Vigilante knows their real identities

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I may not be a fan of the Vigilante storyline, but I do want to see more of him - mainly only to get an explanation as to why he’s working with the other villains and when/how he learned Oliver is GA and Dinah knows he knows. They’ve at least set up a couple questions about him I want answers to this season. 

The same cannot be said of Dragon. I don’t care to know anything about him. 

[Hiveminder]

21 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm okay with Oliver accepting that he needs more than just Diggle and Felicity, after all that's what s5 was about,  But I'm damned if I know why he has to rely on someone who has betrayed him twice and two whiners one of whom is still keeping secret from them. Oliver deserves better than that.

Unless the point of them is to make me appreciate the Laurel Black Canary days. Even at her most entitled  she was never this bad.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of, that they're going to use her to get Oliver to take Rene back. Not the Thea who felt she had to protect Oliver from Susan or who left town because her family was lying to her.

Maybe this was their plan all along. 

[DeadZeus]

I love how they are teasing an "amazing" action scene in the mid-season premiere. I bet it's gonna be awesome but futile cuz the villains will still get what they want at the end of the episode.
That's something else that irks me this season, every fight leads to a victory for TA but then oh wait! The villain still gets something out of it even though they lost the fight! Everytime. Would be cool if they had an amazingly choreographed scene that actually amounted to them truly winning...

Really hope a bell rings within Oliver about the hidden camera's... It's so similar to the Slade camera's he should really figure it out.

[tennisgurl]

Wow am I not invested in the newbies little rebellion and the Legion of Boredom. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by tennisgurl

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

That's something else that irks me this season, every fight leads to a victory for TA but then oh wait! The villain still gets something out of it even though they lost the fight! Everytime. Would be cool if they had an amazingly choreographed scene that actually amounted to them truly winning...

That literally never happens except for finales (the "truly winning" part). Many of the best action sequences either aren't well choreographed (many in s4) or don't actually contribute to them actually winning against the bid bad (109 Oliver lost, 204 wasn't against the big bad, 209 didn't really stop Slade at all, 407 was just between Thea and Andy,  even 508 was a dream and 509 was just either flashbacks or Oliver losing). Most of the fights so far this season have been against the--at this point-- big bad and they aren't allowed to win against them that early (even s4 and s5 had them "beating" the big bads at 415 and 521), so it's just the unfortunate predicament the writers put themselves in this season, even though it seems weird to set it up this way if ME/CJ does end up leaving or dying by 613.

And even if you just mean regular villain fights, Diggle's fight in 603 was still an amazingly choreographed scene that amounted to them winning and Diggle fully accepting the role as GA. It was depicted as an important moment.  

[Primal Slayer]

With Black Siren getting cuts and bloodied for what looks like 2 episodes in a row, looks like TA may be making a comeback.

[DeadZeus]

10 hours ago, way2interested said:

That literally never happens except for finales (the "truly winning" part). Many of the best action sequences either aren't well choreographed (many in s4) or don't actually contribute to them actually winning against the bid bad (109 Oliver lost, 204 wasn't against the big bad, 209 didn't really stop Slade at all, 407 was just between Thea and Andy,  even 508 was a dream and 509 was just either flashbacks or Oliver losing). Most of the fights so far this season have been against the--at this point-- big bad and they aren't allowed to win against them that early (even s4 and s5 had them "beating" the big bads at 415 and 521), so it's just the unfortunate predicament the writers put themselves in this season, even though it seems weird to set it up this way if ME/CJ does end up leaving or dying by 613.

And even if you just mean regular villain fights, Diggle's fight in 603 was still an amazingly choreographed scene that amounted to them winning and Diggle fully accepting the role as GA. It was depicted as an important moment.  

Well that's part of the problem, They don't do many side villains anymore. But it's just something i wanna see, The hero's actively foiling some of the big bad's plans so that the villains need to adapt for once... I just hate to see a cool action scene that amounts to nothing.

Biggest offender is the AMAZING deathstroke scene... He tears through them like a hot knife through butter. But at the end still has to throw in the towel... So what was the point?

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, DeadZeus said:

Well that's part of the problem, They don't do many side villains anymore. But it's just something i wanna see, The hero's actively foiling some of the big bad's plans so that the villains need to adapt for once... I just hate to see a cool action scene that amounts to nothing.

Biggest offender is the AMAZING deathstroke scene... He tears through them like a hot knife through butter. But at the end still has to throw in the towel... So what was the point?

Agreed. The whole thing where the hero/es fail against the villain until the last battle works in standalone movies and the first season of a show, but can't we get a little more equal back and forth between the good guys and bad guys in season six of Arrow? Oliver and Co. should be able to do more than just flounder around like rookies who just got in this game and can't believe the villains are sooo unstoppable. Make the villains work for their victories every once in a while. 

[Primal Slayer]

The Heroes do get plenty of wins throughout the seasons except now it is just against faceless lackeys since they stopped giving the big bads things like generals. 

[way2interested]

I guess I'm confused then, do y'all mean side villains or big bads? Because with side villains, the idea of them having to work for a victory in one episode removes their entire intimidation factor (ex: why should I have to worry if the hero is going to win 20 minutes from now if I already saw them beat the villain?). With recurring villains that works, and Arrow has done it before, but then the problem becomes above just the writers deciding to write it (ex: sometimes certain villains just can't come back). With big bads, there comes a same issues of intimidation of if he/she gets beaten once then the level of intimidation goes down -----(side note: it's one of the issues in The Last Jedi now with 

Spoiler

Kylo Ren being the big bad, since we've already seen two times opportunities that Rey could have killed him. There's no fear factor if the two ever share a scene again, even though Kylo is more trained than Rey is or comes back even more powerful some how. She hypothetically already knows how to beat him.)

That's kind of why Arrow's been pushing away from just regular fight scenes with the big bads to give them extra layers of intimidation since the first 3 villains were already in-canon the best fighters Oliver was ever going to fight. So now we have villains that are working for their victories in a way because regular fight scenes can't cut it for the narrative anymore. This is on the writers because they set their own bar so high in the first place, so we now have to deal with villains who rarely fight because Oliver has already bested fighting villains and since fighting them doesn't stop the evil plan. At this point with how the writers have set up their own show, they can only have them beat the big bad but then the big bad be able to recover in some way and keep going forward, which is exactly what they're doing (technically each time they did beat Cayden's plans as presented, it's just that he had other plans that they either still don't know about--to increase tension for the audience--or it's something that they couldn't have helped). Heck, with the other villains coming back to be part of the villain team, they are having villains trying to work for their victories after Team Arrow already beat them. 

Not saying it's all the way working, but it's a box the writers put themselves into that prevents them from doing many meaningful fight scenes. But, they do still try with mixed results, like with Diggle's fight in 603 (although since it's not a villain who worked for a victory or the big bad does that not count I guess in this case?), or possibly with 610 since we don't know what the scene is yet (if it's just a stunt whatever but if it is like a scene of Oliver fighting the newbies it could be cool). Even certain stunts were them trying to do cool stuff for emotional reasons even if they don't matter to the plot (Oliver jumping off of the bridge for Rene, Slade's rampage to find his son, etc.)

[Hiveminder]

I think it should be possible to have the good guys and bad guys on more equal terms while keeping the tension going but not veering into 'you think you won, but actually you didn't because the villain is much smarter than you and always ten steps ahead, and his real plan was something completely different than you thought it was' territory. I would call an inability to do so a failure of writing skill. 

I don't think of this as something specific to Arrow, or even a glaring problem in any other show I watch. (Full disclosure, I mostly watch reality tv, documentaries, Netflix comedy specials, and Golden Girls, so this doesn't really come up for me much.) I just think the whole formula gets repetitious over repeated seasons of the same show.