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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

Well, I love that! I'm actually surprised. But it just makes me feel like they're doing it as a roundabout way of hyping the newbies? Like, at some point OTA is gonna be like "We need them, they make our team better!" or some other nonsense. ??

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WindofChange

WindofChange

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Well, I love that! I'm actually surprised. But it just makes me feel like they're doing it as a roundabout way of hyping the newbies? Like, at some point OTA is gonna be like "We need them, they make our team better!" or some other nonsense. ??

If this helps consolidate OTB and make them a stronger subset of Team Arrow then I'll be ok with it. As long as OTA are in charge it's all good.

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JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

I'm beyond glad that's the split but I'm not sure how it can work. Most fans are probably going to be on OTA's side and therefore not really interested in what the newbies are doing or why. I mean, personally I wouldn't care if Curtis, Rene and Dinah spontaneously combusted so I'm probably not going give a fig about any story they're trying to carry.

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

(edited)

Hehe maybe they're banking on us being grateful and in good mood OTA are together we'll feel kinder towards the noobs.

It's working for me. I haven't wished for a dead noob since the news dropped!

Edited by Mellowyellow
My horrid grammar!
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JJ928

JJ928

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(edited)

I remember saying that OTA vs Newbies made more sense, but I don't expect logic from Arrow.

I can't believe Arrow is using logic now! LOL 

I'm so happy! OTA vs the lame squad.

giphy.gif

Edited by JJ928
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WindofChange

WindofChange

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(edited)

I'm going to side with OTA no matter what. Even if they're presented as completely in the wrong I'm going to side with them...

Newbies: So Oliver/Digg/Felicity want us to drive us all off this cliff? WTF?
Me: Well then what are you waiting for, bitch!? DRIVE! 

It's irrational and illogical but this is how loyal I am to OTA lol

Edited by WindofChange
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Angel12d

Angel12d

I feel like it's almost obvious they're gonna set up OTA to be in the wrong but I don't even care. IDGAF about the newbies so  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I also feel like they're gonna position Dinah as some kind of newbies leader but I can't think of anything I want less tbh. Haha.

(Honestly, I just think the team is far too big and needs to be culled, even though I know it won't happen. But all these masks basically weaken Oliver as GA, IMO. This has been happening since s4 but it's even worse now because there's even more masks.)

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JJ928

JJ928

They can die for all I care. The only one I'd save is Curtis (he annoys me sometimes but he's ok), bring Agent Watson full time as the law enforcement connection,bring back Speedy, and Alena. LOL A girl can dream.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

It says a lot that I actually don't mind Rene now but that's only because they've dialled him back massively. I can't stand Curtis and want him gone. Dinah is just...there, sucking up screentime because comic canon so that annoys me. I'd actually rather it be OTA with Speedy, like it was with Roy. I always thought the brother/sister team-up should be explored more. Plus she shoots arrows and the show is, you know, Arrow. Haha.

And if the team needed a BC sometimes, then Sara could pop in now and then and go back to her team afterwards. Simple!

Edited by Angel12d
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I'm getting the sense Tinah will be like Laurel in S2/S3 where she will be given these storylines just because the show apparently has to have a BC but there's no real place for her in Oliver's life so she's this weird satellite just hanging in the fringes with her own story. Tinah is a little better integrated than Laurel in that at least she can go to crime scenes and such.

17 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It says a lot that I actually don't mind Rene now but that's only because they've dialled him back massively.

I feel like this is the only way the B team can work, way back in the background, dialed back massively. Tinah was fine in that role until they pushed her into the foreground this season. It just does not work. The balance gets out of whack. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)
10 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm getting the sense Tinah will be like Laurel in S2/S3 where she will be given these storylines just because the show apparently has to have a BC but there's no real place for her in Oliver's life so she's this weird satellite just hanging in the fringes with her own story. Tinah is a little better integrated than Laurel in that at least she can go to crime scenes and such.

Well, Dinah has no connection to Oliver in the way Laurel did but she's definitely connected to everything else. They made her a cop so she's all up in the investigating. She has her own villain in BS. She's bonding with Quentin and Diggle. Actually, she's basically having scenes with everyone but Oliver and Felicity. And now she's getting her own romance with Vigilante by the sounds of it, which will probably cause some conflict with the team. She's literally everywhere. LOL. I didn't get the same sense with Laurel tbh.

10 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I feel like this is the only way the B team can work, way back in the background, dialed back massively. Tinah was fine in that role until they pushed her into the foreground this season. It just does not work. The balance gets out of whack. 

Yeah, I didn't like Rene in the first half of s5 because they forced him too much. Unfortunately the same thing is happening with Dinah now. She wasn't like this in s5 and apart from the cringe-y forced generic female badass lines, I didn't have any big issue with her. Now I do. ?

Edited by Angel12d
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

10 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Well, Dinah has no connection to Oliver in the way Laurel did but she's definitely connected to everything else. They made her a cop so she's all up in the investigating. She has her own villain in BS. She's bonding with Quentin and Diggle. Actually, she's basically having scenes with everyone but Oliver and Felicity. And now she's getting her own romance with Vigilante by the sounds of it, which will probably cause some conflict with the team. She's literally everywhere. LOL. I didn't get the same sense with Laurel tbh.

On the surface, yes, Laurel had a connection with Oliver. But the show played that down quite a bit except when it was trying to dredge up drama. But a lot of times Laurel was actually kept away from Oliver. I see the same with Tinah. Tinah and Laurel both got bonding time with Quentin and Diggle. Scenes with almost everyone but no meaningful interactions with Oliver & Felicity. She's getting her own romance, Laurel had Wild Cat. Yes, Tinah is everywhere but what's most important for me and telling with regards to how unimportant she is to the overall story is how she has no role whatsover in Oliver's journey. Same with Laurel. And I keep circling back to BC not having a place on this show.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)
1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Yes, Tinah is everywhere but what's most important for me and telling with regards to how unimportant she is to the overall story is how she has no role whatsover in Oliver's journey. Same with Laurel. And I keep circling back to BC not having a place on this show.

I mean, I agree that BC has no place on this show full time and she has no role in Oliver's journey at all. In that sense she's very separate. But I also feel like they're giving Dinah far more connections than they ever did with Laurel. Laurel was connected to Oliver through their history and sometimes she had the law thing going on but that was about it. Dinah feels right up in the center of the action. Just IMO. I don't like it, mainly because it doesn't feel earned. 

Edited by Angel12d
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JJ928

JJ928

I agree that Dinah is getting more than Laurel did, it's totally unearned. I didn't care for Laurel, but she had relationships with everyone on the team. Season 3 she and Felicity were friends, she had a relationship with Thea, Roy, and in season 4 she had a relationship with Diggle. Like her or not at least if it was still LL (tho I prefer no BC on the show), some of these arcs would make sense. They didn't show DD develop any of these relationships, she had like 3 scenes with Digg last year & now I'm supposed to buy that they're buddies?

I have no interest in getting LL back but I have even less interest in DD. I feel like they took the worse parts of LL's writing and gave it to DD but amplified it. IMO, they should get rid of BC completely, obviously they can't do her justice. Instead they should bring in a different female hero. Hell, bring back Nyssa, Katana, Redeem Lady cop, or someone new (that can act ffs).

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Chaser

Chaser

When I saw the new SCPD set I sighed a bit cause I knew it would be Dinah's set. I'm also guessing that Vigilante is going to be a Cop too. Arrow programed me to resent any Black Canary. They needed to add another female character but I would have preferred Lyla or a civilian, not another mask that gets the instant treatment.

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WindofChange

WindofChange

59 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Yeah, they're really gonna try and force the idea that OTB is necessary, aren't they? Bollocks.

Did we ever really expect the writers to go "No we don't need them, bye newbies!"?

They're not going to get rid of them anytime soon I think, and if they're sticking around wouldn't it be preferable the writers give the audience an actual reason as to why OTA needs them? 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

6x10: Divided 6x11: We Fall

Yeah, they're really gonna try and force the idea that OTB is necessary, aren't they? Bollocks.

Unless the show is going to continue with the idea of two teams, I expect the conflict to be resolved by showing that OTA needs the newbies (which is true in the sense that they really can't patrol the whole city with just themselves anymore because they have kids and leadership roles in their careers), and the newbies need OTA (because they have less experience and leadership).

Don't get me wrong, I also love OTA the most, but in the narrative, the last time it was just OTA (season 1B-2A), Diggle was single, Felicity was an EA/tech support, and Oliver was a neglectful club owner/CEO in their non-vigilante lives. Team Arrow won't work without the newbies anymore because we're supposed to be seeing everyone live more balanced lives.

Edited by lemotomato
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JJ928

JJ928

I know the newbies will be back, but they should make this divide their fault. Going by SA's comments it seems like it may be their decision to leave, therefore, they should be the ones to crawl back or die. I prefer the latter but I'm realistic lol. 

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

I'm looking forward to just seeing OTA but then I'll be annoyed when the Kid's table comes back. I have a feeling this is going to be like when Thea and Felicity sabatoged Susan and most people were on their side (except the precious journos). 

Spinning off the noobs to their own team might be a good way of keeping the leader thing they are going for with Dinah while not clashing with OTA. Especially since they are redundant. 

Edited by leopardprint
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JJ928

JJ928

I'm all for the newbies to get their own show. Let them flop on their own and bring in some better actors to Arrow. I mean they got Emerson, so we know they can bring in that talent.

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bethy

bethy

Hasn’t WM said that Dinah’s new attitude gets her and others on the team into trouble? That makes me hopeful that the rift is the newbies’ fault and that they have to eat crow and come back. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)
49 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Unless the show is going to continue with the idea of two teams, I expect the conflict to be resolved by showing that OTA needs the newbies (which is true in the sense that they really can't patrol the whole city with just themselves anymore because they have kids and leadership roles in their careers), and the newbies need OTA (because they have less experience and leadership).

I dislike the newbies but I think this is what's going to happen. As long as it's not framed as OTA being completely in the wrong, I'll be okay with that. 

Edited by Angel12d
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Belinea

Belinea

27 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Dinah will lead Team Newbies.

So will she be Oliver then? Or Diggle? Curtis will have Felicity's role but which role will Wild Dog have? He is more of a Roy to me than an Oliver. 

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tv echo

tv echo

I don't really know if Team Newbies will even have a leader. I was just guessing. Both JH and RG have talked about how their characters are leaders. But if Dinah is the leader, then Curtis would be "Felicity" and Wild Dog would be "Diggle."

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Velocity23

Velocity23

6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I don't really know if Team Newbies will even have a leader. I was just guessing. Both JH and RG have talked about how their characters are leaders. But if Dinah is the leader, then Curtis would be "Felicity" and Wild Dog would be "Diggle."

Didnt Rick Gonzalez mention that his character Wild Dog is a lot like Oliver? If i follow that logic, Dinah is more like Diggle 

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tv echo

tv echo

Yes. RG has said that Wild Dog is like Oliver, and DR has said that Dinah & Diggle are kindred spirits.

I was just speculating about how the CW would promo the heck out of TGA vs. TBC. Somehow "Team Green Arrow vs. Team Wild Dog" doesn't have the same ring.

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bijoux

bijoux

3 hours ago, Chaser said:

When I saw the new SCPD set I sighed a bit cause I knew it would be Dinah's set. I'm also guessing that Vigilante is going to be a Cop too. Arrow programed me to resent any Black Canary. They needed to add another female character but I would have preferred Lyla or a civilian, not another mask that gets the instant treatment.

Agent Watson could have worked. I really think the actress pops in the role, and the character could have filled that void where Lance used to be in the early seasons.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Yes. RG has said that Wild Dog is like Oliver, and DR has said that Dinah & Diggle are kindred spirits.

I was just speculating about how the CW would promo the heck out of TGA vs. TBC. Somehow "Team Green Arrow vs. Team Wild Dog" doesn't have the same ring.

No, it doesn't. I think you're right. The CW won't be able to resist doing GA vs BC. I mean, we've seen how much they love hyping the nonexistent feud between BS and BC. 

2 hours ago, JJ928 said:

Let them flop on their own and bring in some better actors to Arrow.

It's not about better actors, I'm afraid. It's all about promoting intellectual properties. WB/DC seem to want these names out there for the public to get used to, to gain name recognition: Deathstroke (possible film?), Wild Dog (his own comics?), Black Canary (promo for comics?), Black Siren, Mister Terrific, etc. 

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Team Arrow won't work without the newbies anymore because we're supposed to be seeing everyone live more balanced lives.

Except for fighting more minions, OTB really hasn't shown their usefulness, IMO. At least Roy was patrolling on his own.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I do wonder if they're going to have Thea and Lance take sides (I'm assuming OTA's), but maybe I should instead be wondering if Thea's even going to be in those episodes. 

Also, I just saw that SA was asked about Black Siren, and I'm just amused every time I read his response to questions about her now. The same thing, over and over. Obviously not what people want to hear. 

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Trisha

Trisha

I usually like whatever DR says but wow, I really disagree with him when he says last year's crossover was a peek at their "greatest lives" in this interview. Just...no.

Quote

I think it’s interesting for Diggle that last year's crossover had the Dominators, and in that illusion they went into our heads and brought out what would be our greatest lives ... For Diggle, it was being the Green Arrow. I think that's a very interesting story, that somehow, some place in Diggle, he likes wearing the hood. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

16 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I usually like whatever DR says but wow, I really disagree with him when he says last year's crossover was a peek at their "greatest lives" in this interview. Just...no.

? ? ?

His greatest life is being GA and no sign of his wife and child? Sure, Jan.

I swear, sometimes they don't know their ass from their elbow. The interpretation changes every single time. ?

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WindofChange

WindofChange

(edited)
2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Except for fighting more minions, OTB really hasn't shown their usefulness, IMO. At least Roy was patrolling on his own.

I'm not really a fan of putting them in a lose-lose situations. If OTB start doing more in the field to show their usefulness people will complain about how they're taking away from OTA, if they don't do anything other than fight more minions then they're useless.

At least this way we can see OTA team up like we wanted and OTB can actually prove their usefulness. 

Edited by WindofChange
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

8 hours ago, WindofChange said:

I'm not really a fan of putting them in a lose-lose situations. If OTB start doing more in the field to show their usefulness people will complain about how they're taking away from OTA, if they don't do anything other than fight more minions then they're useless.

At least this way we can see OTA team up like we wanted and OTB can actually prove their usefulness. 

And then hopefully once the issues are resolved they can fade back into the background.  ?

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
15 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

It's not about better actors, I'm afraid. It's all about promoting intellectual properties. WB/DC seem to want these names out there for the public to get used to, to gain name recognition: Deathstroke (possible film?), Wild Dog (his own comics?), Black Canary (promo for comics?), Black Siren, Mister Terrific, etc. 

With the huge success of Wonder Woman, I'm sure that both WB/DC and Disney/Marvel are scouring through their comics archives for possible new female superhero movie franchises.

15 hours ago, Trisha said:

I usually like whatever DR says but wow, I really disagree with him when he says last year's crossover was a peek at their "greatest lives" in this interview. Just...no.

DR also keeps talking about how Diggle's son, JJ, will become Connor Hawke in the future, as seen in that LoT episode. However, iirc, that future was an alternate future that would exist only if the Legends failed to stop Vandal Savage and now no longer exists.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

I posted this in the Social Media thread because the guy narrating this video was careful to say that they put together the fight for the demonstration and that the stunt people weren't playing any characters. But then I wondered if he was just trying to throw us off - because if it was an actual rehearsal, it'd be GA fighting Wild Dog and BC...

12 minutes ago, tv echo said:
Stunt doubles for GA, Wild Dog and BC/BS (not rehearsing a scene, just demonstrating a fight)...
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Allison Keene (Collider editor) posted these pics from the Arrow set - are these new sets? I wasn't sure if the second pic was from the Arrow bunker...

Edited by tv echo
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way2interested

way2interested

The second pic looks more like Stein's secret lab from LoT (hence the "legend" reference).

8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

But then I wondered if he was just trying to throw us off - because if it was an actual rehearsal, it'd be GA fighting Wild Dog and BC...

I kind of hope so, the fight scene looks awesome and looks like Oliver is totally schooling them.

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