Spoiler Discussion Thread

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Also, MG trotted out the ratings line again, saying TV ratings in S5 went down 20% but streaming was up 17%. I'm side-eyeing that claim so hard. Since S5 is not on Netflix yet (and they don't release ratings anyway), they're probably just talking about the CW site and app -- which of course would rise because this is the first season the show isn't on Hulu and there's really no where else to legally stream. Smoke and mirrors...

TV ratings went down 34.5% in demo, 30% in viewers compared to season 4. Arrow season 5 is on Netflix right now, but MG probably is only referring to the CW app when he talks about streaming ratings. 

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Since S5 is not on Netflix yet

It is here in the US - it has been for months. :)

[Guest]

The only show that should do a Black Lives Matter episode is Black Lightning, IMO. Otherwise MG will find a way to turn it into an All Lives Matter episode. Please no. I really hope this was just an idea that will get thrown into the trash where it belongs.

[Primal Slayer]

I can already tell that the backlash Arrow is most likely going to get from attempting to do a BLM type episode is not gonna be nice.....And it probably won't do favors for Echo who I assume would be the lead of the episode. But here's to hoping they prove me wrong on all fronts.

[Guest]

Unless I'm mistaken, there is not a single black writer in the Arrow writers room. Sorry but the idea that a bunch of white writers can write a Black Lives Matter episode is just...abhorrent to me. It has disaster written all over it. They should be ashamed of themselves for even thinking they have the talent and knowledge to write such an important and sensitive subject and do it justice. 

No. No no no.

[calliope1975]

26 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Unless I'm mistaken, there is not a single black writer in the Arrow writers room. Sorry but the idea that a bunch of white writers can write a Black Lives Matter episode is just...abhorrent to me. It has disaster written all over it. They should be ashamed of themselves for even thinking they have the talent and knowledge to write such an important and sensitive subject and do it justice. 

No. No no no.

That about sums up my reaction to this story idea, but I did a lot more swearing. I'd say it's unbelievable, but with MG and his ego, yeah, I believe it. Sigh....

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, Trisha said:

I'm listening to MG's interview now and I just got to the part about how he wants this year's topical episode to be about Black Lives Matter. Oh god. Oh god, no. 

I can't stop laughing at the train wreck that is coming.  

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I can already tell that the backlash Arrow is most likely going to get from attempting to do a BLM type episode is not gonna be nice.....And it probably won't do favors for Echo who I assume would be the lead of the episode. But here's to hoping they prove me wrong on all fronts.

Or maybe David Ramsey?  

 

Honestly, as terrible an idea as this is, and boy howdy is it, I do feel they have a better chance at doing a not as terrible episode than with the gun control one.  For one, there doesn't have to be many sides of the argument.  And they can make it way more personal than characters arguing over statistics.   Now if they try to "solve" the problem like they did in Spectre of the Gun, there's no hope but if they just try to let the audience connect emotionally to it, maybe there's a shot of being worth while.  I can imagine DR delivering something incredibly emotional, especially since Diggle now has a son to worry about growing up and dealing with it.  

And now that they do have Black Lighting in the CW family, even if they don't have the writers on their staff, they should (please or please) have the sense to take whatever they create to other writers that might have a clue to look over and point out where they are making the most egregious missteps.  Maybe they will bring in help to do the script to get it right in the first place?  It has all the making of just a cringe fest but maybe they could kick Oliver and the rest of the very pale people into just listening mode and let the other characters that actually have credibility do the explaining.  

 

I'm clinging to hope because as much as "Spectre of the Gun" was terrible, at least I could shrug and move on.  This has the potential itself of coming off as wildly, if unintentionally, racist.    

[SmallScreenDiva]

This is the show that didn't give actual gun violence survivor Felicity Smoak a POV so no, I think they will utterly fail at this BLM episode. 

[BkWurm1]

Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

This is the show that didn't give actual gun violence survivor Felicity Smoak a POV so no, I think they will utterly fail at this BLM episode. 

You are probably right, but lack of a POV was one of the big complaints about his SoG episode, so maybe?

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

You are probably right, but lack of a POV was one of the big complaints about his SoG episode, so maybe?

Remember MG's responses on Tumblr about Felicity in 513?

[BkWurm1]

But that was last year.  A year later he will admit to mistakes.  

[statsgirl]

36 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Honestly, as terrible an idea as this is, and boy howdy is it, I do feel they have a better chance at doing a not as terrible episode than with the gun control one.  For one, there doesn't have to be many sides of the argument.  And they can make it way more personal than characters arguing over statistics.   Now if they try to "solve" the problem like they did in Spectre of the Gun, there's no hope but if they just try to let the audience connect emotionally to it, maybe there's a shot of being worth while.  I can imagine DR delivering something incredibly emotional, especially since Diggle now has a son to worry about growing up and dealing with it. 

This is where I am. While it seems like a bad idea to me, the positions are less extreme than they are about guns.  No one should have to have The Talk where they explain to their children how to behave when they are stopped by the police just because.  Hopefully they have enough respect for David Ramsey that if he says something is a bad idea, they'll listen to him

[calliope1975]

MG thinks he's more woke than he is, and I'm already cringing at what the outcome could be. My fear, as others have stated, is MG will go the All Lives Matter route, or at least have a character take that position, and that's not who these characters are or what this show is about. I'm not sure why Arrow has to have VSE's. These writers aren't good enough to tackle serious issues.

[TwistedandBored]

I am sorry but Arrow does not have the talent or POC people to to write an episode about BLM. Just no. I am already sort of dreading seeing how they would write a good Muslim POC female character in LoT. I don't need them making me dread an episode of Arrow where they get preachy and are out of touch about the issue. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

8 hours ago, Trisha said:

Nope, unless they hired some new writers over the summer. I would have been skeptical about this before the gun control episode, but now I'm downright terrified. Have they learned nothing?!

Also, MG trotted out the ratings line again, saying TV ratings in S5 went down 20% but streaming was up 17%. I'm side-eyeing that claim so hard. Since S5 is not on Netflix yet (and they don't release ratings anyway), they're probably just talking about the CW site and app -- which of course would rise because this is the first season the show isn't on Hulu and there's really no where else to legally stream. Smoke and mirrors...

Aside from the fact that live viewers went down more than that saying the streaming was up 17% doesn't mean anything in itself. If they have as much people that watch it on streaming as live viewers than we are talking..if they don't he is just throwing numbers around hoping to impress people that don't have the full picture.

On the BLM episode I'm afraid he wants to write it himself..I got the feeling he thinks of this type of episodes as his projects..now I'm worried what might come out of the characters' mouths. :/

[LeighAn]

So is he going to use  character to represent the other side of the argument? Cause that sounds like an invitation for trouble. 

[apinknightmare]

It does. Hopefully they at least have the sense to bring in a "villain" or some other one-off character to make that argument if they're going to make that argument at all. Like a cop Dinah works with or...something.

[tv echo]

Here's my transcriptions from watching the new Collider video interview with MG (posted on page 6 of New Spoilers thread by @way2interested - thanks!). I'll also post them in the Mind Your Surroundings thread since he also talks about LoT (fyi, I didn't transcribe all of the nonspoilery portions)...

-- MG confirmed the episode orders for Arrow S6 (23 episodes) and LoT S3 (18 episodes). His official title for both shows is EP, but his job is show runner for both shows.

-- On Arrow S6 theme, MG: "It's family. It's not just, like, biological family, although that's a big component of the season, but it's also, like, sort of found families and, like, the families one develops as opposed to the one - you know, the family that one gets born into."

-- Per MG, in planning the 23 episodes, they talk a lot in terms of "tentpoles" or "chapters" (not "log lines" for episodes). Also, they generally think of the season in terms of 4 "narrative acts." They also plan for the mini breaks. They know that episode 8 is the crossover and episode 9 is the midseason finale, although that isn't "written in stone."

-- Per MG, they've talked about having a Big Bad for the first half of the season and a Big Bad for the second half of the season, and last year, they "flirted" with it with Tobias Church, who was the Big Bad for the first 5 or 6 episode, but at the end of the day, it's one television season and they want it to feel like one big narrative arc. That said, he hinted that they're doing things "a little differently" for the Big Bad in S6.

-- Per MG, they're in the process of breaking 609. They know how the season will end, and they know generally when they want certain things to happen.

-- Per MG, they'll do another topical episode this season, like they did the gun violence episode last season. MG: "I really want to tackle Black Lives Matter and I have a story idea for that." 

-- Per MG, "a great percentage of the directors are all returning people." Last year, they had a lot of new directors. For both Arrow and LoT, they try to make sure that 50% of the directing slate is diverse, which he defined to mean "basically anyone who's not a white guy. Either a person of color or a woman." This season there are only 1 or 2 brand new directors.

-- Interviewer asked if they were thinking in terms of Supernatural-distance for the Arrow series. MG said that "it's too far in the horizon." But he then quoted SA saying, "what's the point of doing the first five if you're not going to do the second five." MG also mentioned TVD ending at around S8. He then said that he doesn't know "what numbers we have to do in order to stay on the air through Season 10"  and that it's not just about live ratings any more but also about streaming ratings. He said that Arrow's live ratings went down 20% from S4 to S5, but that it's streaming ratings went up 17%, so that it's only a 3% loss over the course of Seasons 4 to 5.

-- Interviewer mentioned that when he announced that he was going to interview MG, he got a lot of questions. MG then asked, "A lot? Or a-locity?" Interviewer said that, yes, he did get multiple questions about that.

-- MG said that he was talking with Andrew Kreisberg about an "arena" idea for next season's crossover (Arrow S7).

-- Per MG, the template that gets set for a show after a few seasons is a "narrative template," rather than a "production template." They're limited only by their budget, but they can go over budget on one episode as long as they make it up on another episode (example: "bottle episodes").

-- Interviewer said that the reason Arrow is successful is because of the characters and asked MG if he ever thought of having an episode about, like, a dinner party, where the characters are just arguing about movies, doing this and that, etc. Interviewer then mentioned that his fave scene in the Avengers movie was when the Avengers sat around talking about who can lift Thor's hammer (no action). MG: "Did my line producer put you up to this? ... I think in Season 6 of Arrow, we now have, quote, unquote, the right to try an experimental episode like that. And, um, I'm certainly more intrigued by doing an episode like that, as opposed to a bottle episode where we're trying to tell a regular story but we're just doing it in all of our standing sets and doing it on the cheap.... Certainly, that would be cool. I would love to do just a pure, character-based episode."

-- MG said that they "let a lot of sunshine" into S4 because S3 was "so unrelentingly dark." He said that he and CW Pres. Mark Pedowitz debate over which seasons of Arrow were the darkest. Pedowitz thought S2 was the darkest because they killed off Moira. MG disagreed because that was only 1 episode out of 23, whereas S3 was "so unrelentingly dark... It started off with Sara's death and it just never let up." So in S4, they "opened up the blinds and let some sunlight in. And people didn't dig that." MG really liked S4 and thought it had a lot of great episodes, but "people really did not dig that." He said it was a "good reminder" that people don't necessarily want a lot of lightness on Arrow. However, he said that they have to have a good balance and "mix it up" but without changing the overall tone of Arrow.(*)

(* tv echo: I have to disagree with MG's interpretation of S4. Live ratings for S4 were great during the first half of the season when episodes were relatively lighter. Ratings didn't drop until S4 turned dark after 415 with the Olicity/BMD break-up and Laurel's death. However, I have a feeling that MG got a lot of hate mail about S4 from certain segments of the fandom.)

-- Per MG, James Bamford has been promoted to "the producing director on Arrow in Season 6."

-- On LoT episode orders, MG: "Season 1 was 16, Season 2 was 17, and Season 3's going to be 18... I think that 18 is probably the most we can do. It's a very, very, very ambitious show, even compared to the other shows, because of the ensemble nature." Also, he said that LoT's budget was "pretty similar to the other super-powered shows. It's just the... production challenges." Every week they have to create a different time period and every week they have to have "all these superpowers on display."  In contrast, on Flash, "he's just running fast," and on Supergirl, "she's just flying." But on LoT, they have 3 characters who fly, etc., plus time travel and "historical accuracy," costumes, etc.

-- On LoT, MG: "We're going to a circus in the 1800s, we're going to Victorian London, sort of doing our send-up of sort of a Penny Dreadful kind of episode. Uh, we're doing the Golden Age of Hollywood... We're going to go back to Aruba... It's madness. It's just total insanity."

-- Same writing process for both Arrow and Lot, but just different mind set.  LoT is "fun and frothy" while Arrow is "grim and gritty."

-- On LoT S3 theme, MG: "Growing up... I say that with the caveat that the show's always going to be fun. We're never going to have anyone grow up too much. But our characters are kind of like Peter Pan and the Waverider's their Neverland. And over the course of the season, everyone's going to - in their own way and in a way true to their character and true to the tone of the show - will confront the issue of growing up."

-- Interviewer then turned to the fan questions that he received, saying: "Putting a lot together, there were a lot of questions about Felicity. I think that, from what I deduced, and I've probably already figured this out, and you know this, is that people really care about her. That's what I got from Twitter." MG: "I'd say that's accurate." Interviewer: "So what can you tease - obviously she's going to be back this season. That's obvious. What can you tease, if anything?" MG: "We are actually - last year we wanted to, uh, do her own business story, and we got sidetracked by this Helix storyline that we came up with for her. But we're finally doing a business this year. Um, in fact, um, one of the questions I get a lot on Twitter is, 'what does so-and-so do for money? what does so-and-so do for money?'" They then veered off into a discussion of little production details, continuity, and a Game of Thrones discussion ("how long it takes a raven to get from Point A to Point B").

-- Returning to Felicity, MG confirmed that she will create her own business. MG: "We have another storyline for her in the back half of the year that, uh, I quite frankly don't want to spoil. But, uh, it involves... It involves a situation that is separate from the team. Um, because one of the things - ... Not a solo episode. It's actually a storyline... It's really because, you know, for us, we don't want to - we always want to try to avoid Felicity only getting defined by her relationship to Oliver or her activities on the team. You know, we want to try to give Felicity as much of an outside life as possible. Um, while at the same time, still have the storylines feel like they're, you know, organic and part of the show."

-- Interviewer asked if MG dealt with "this" all day on Twitter because of Felicity, because he "got a lot of it." MG said that he doesn't "deal with a lot, to be honest with you." MG then said: "I hate to say it, but okay, I'm going to admit something.... If you're rude or obnoxious - and it doesn't have to be about Felicity, it could be about anything - I just mute you. I mute - mute, mute mute. Mute, mute, mute. I'm just muting, you know." He'll take 15 minutes and go through his timeline and "just mute the hell out of people." He said that he only mutes rude people because "you only want to spend so much time with negativity." He only mutes people who say things that they wouldn't say to his face.

-- Interviewer asked if there was the danger of seeing fans pitching ideas on Twitter and then the idea is "off the plate." MG replied that they don't see a lot of ideas posted on Twitter and that the only time that happened was when someone suggested on Twitter that Felicity's code name be Overwatch "and I thought, oh, that's really cool." And they did it on the show. But that's more the exception than the rule.

-- As for more spinoff shows, MG said that that was above his pay grade but that his feeling is that they're at a "saturation point."

-- On landing Michael Emerson for Arrow, MG: "We have been talking to Michael forever... And we talked to him a lot last year. We got really close last year but things didn't work out with his schedule, um, and, you know, he was just coming off Person of Interest and I think he wanted a little time off, which is very understandable. And basically we just came back around and we said, 'hey, remember us?' Um, and he could not be more lovely and could not be more fantastic on the show. His daillies are starting to come in and, um, he's Michael Emerson." MG refused to answer the interviewer's questions as to whether or not ME was the Big Bad of S6 and how many episodes he was pitched for. MG said only that ME knows exactly how many episodes he's going to be in on Arrow and that ME will have to fly in and out of Vancouver to shoot his episodes, although they're trying to bunch the shooting of his scenes together.

-- MG refused to confirm or deny whether or not Thea's going to survive the island explosion. Interviewer quoted MG's previous quote about how Thea's never going to die on Arrow. MG joked about how he's said a lot of things that he's gone back on. He referenced a previous S1 quote by him, AK and GB about how there would never be super powers on Arrow. Both he and the interviewer said that things change. MG noted that Thea was on 14 -16 episodes last season. MG: "Willa had asked us, you know, to reduce her work load, and we accommodated her." Interviewer: "So it's similar this year. Anyway - I won't make you answer." MG: "Yeah." He then referred back to how they're working with everybody's situations (regular cast and guest cast), what stories they want to tell, and what the cast wants to do (like, in terms of how many episodes they want to do, or other things they want to do).

-- Interviewer then asked if we'll see more romance this season (fan question). MG: "This is a coy way of finding out about Oliver and Felicity... Yeah, there's definitely some romance this year. Definitely some romance this year. I'm being very coy about it. I'm going to be as coy as the question."

-- Interviewer asked if they get a bump in budget with each additional season of Arrow and LoT. MG: "We don't get a bump. In fact, Warner Bros. does what's called a neutral budget, which is, once you factor in everyone's contractual and union required raises, that's your budget. So it's the same money that you had in Year 1, you have in Year 6, just adjusted for inflation.That said, um, we did get a new sound stage for Arrow this year. Because you move the money around. It's the same bucket, but how the money gets apportioned." Interviewer asked if the new sound stage was a villain lair or what. MG: "I will tell you, there's a sound stage that we have - that we've had since Season 1 - that we're losing due to construction around the area, and very soon it's going to become too noisy to shoot in it. So what we're doing is, we're destroying the stuff that we shoot on that sound stage, and somebody reconstructing... yes... We're writing to it." So they're doing something they normally couldn't do. MG then talked about making "lemons out of lemonade" and about how some great ideas came out of production challenges.

-- MG mentioned how in 601 they're going to flash back to right after the island explosion.

-- Interviewer asked if Slade Wilson was going to be redeemed or what. MG: "The way I like to think of Slade is, you know, that - we basically showed the audience at the end of Season 5 that the mirakuru's out of his system. So now we're dealing with a Slade Wilson's that's sort of in possession of all of his marbles. Um, but to me what makes the character so interesting is, he's never black or white. You know, he's never pure good or pure evil. He's complicated. Um, so to me, he's a character that's - it's not that he's beyond redemption, it's that you never know what you're going to get with him." MG said that, for a time, DC told them that they had plans for Deathstroke so Arrow couldn't use him, but then that changed at the end of the year. He knew that they were going back to Lian Yu at the end of S5, so he went to DC and got permission to use Deathstroke for the S5 finale and S6 premiere, as well as a Slade Wilson-centric story, the two-parter in S6: "Episodes 5 and 6 this year, where the flashbacks will be from Slade's perspective, and it's very much a Slade-Oliver two-hander." MG said that they just have "to operate within the requirements of DC."

Edited September 7, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

Bless you @tv echo for the full transcript! I so wanted to know the exact romance quote! Hehe was thinking of begging you to transcribe it!

[wonderwall]

31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- Interviewer asked if there was the danger of seeing fans pitching ideas on Twitter and then the idea is "off the plate." MG replied that they don't see a lot of ideas posted on Twitter and that the only time that happened was when someone suggested on Twitter that Felicity's code name be Overwatch "and I thought, oh, that's really cool." And they did it on the show. But that's more the exception than the rule.

You guys still mad at me about this? LOL

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

You guys still mad at me about this? LOL

yes! You are permanently barred from tweeting ANY ideas to MG ever again! LOL

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

You guys still mad at me about this? LOL

Omg was that you?????

You're famous!!!!!

[wonderwall]

27 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

yes! You are permanently barred from tweeting ANY ideas to MG ever again! LOL

YOU ONLY HATE IT BECAUSE OF THE MG OF IT ALL. Overwatch isn't that bad LOL It makes sense! Plus it doesn't come with the burden of 'legacy' that Oracle does.

[Guest]

We forgive but we never forget.

LOL. In all seriousness, I don't hate Overwatch as much as I did at first. Actually, it doesn't really bother me at all anymore. And it is better that she has a non-comic book name otherwise we would've just had the crazies saying she was stealing someone else's legacy or whatever. 

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

 it is better that she has a non-comic book name otherwise we would've just had the crazies saying she was stealing someone else's legacy or whatever. 

Ha! They say that Dinah is stealing someone's legacy. And she's probably more comically then most characters on the show.

 

36 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

You guys still mad at me about this? LOL

You should charge MG a pitch fee$$$$ 

[Belinea]

I always get the feeling that the Arrow producers don't care about details at all. I mean, he even mentioned that he finds that strange that people are so focused on that. I don't think it is weird at all if you make a show about a billionaire, make a storyline about him losing his money but then still have him do stuff that no broke person could.

I also think that he likes the LoT is so all over the place. You can always say 'that is time travel'. It is crazy and therefore not many rules apply. Mostly one of the reasons, I couldn't get into it. It is just too fun, you know.

As for the BLM episode, of course he will write it. That is the only reason why they are doing these episodes because he wants to include his personal views and political ambitions. And because the cause is important, l hope he will treat this one better than the gun episode. 

[wonderwall]

I've been wondering why they've been keeping Emerson's character a secret when most people have already guessed he's most likely going to be Cayden James... And I think that it goes either 2 ways. He isn't Cayden James and is some other character that's intent on making Oliver's life hell OR they're going to introduce Emerson's character in the first half of the season with a different name.Then we're going to find out in the midseason finale or 6B that he is in fact Cayden James and a very bad person. Maybe the surprise is why they're being super secretive about it - they want to fool the audience for a bit?

Edited September 7, 2017 by wonderwall

[lemotomato]

56 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

yes! You are permanently barred from tweeting ANY ideas to MG ever again! LOL

But what if she tweets only good ideas at him?

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I've been wondering why they've been keeping Emerson's character a secret when most people have already guessed he's going to be Cayden James... And I think that it goes either 2 ways. He isn't Cayden James and is some other character that's intent on making Oliver's life hell OR they're going to introduce Emerson's character in the first half of the season with a different name.Then we're going to find out in the midseason finale or 6B that he is in fact Cayden James and a very bad person. Maybe the surprise is why they're being super secretive about it - they want to fool the audience for a bit?

Could be, they could even tie ME into both of Felicity's stories, like he shows up in SC as an interested party/client/etc that's related to her new business.  Then we find out he's Cayden James and tied into her 6B (non Olicity, non Team) story.  

The new spoiler about Vigilante still makes me think Pike (in his relationship to Lance).  Although, it could also be Dinah's boyfriend, i guess we could stretch it to anyone that's been on the show before.  Maybe it's Curtis's ex Paul? LOL

Edited September 7, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[LeighAn]

 

Sounds like Dinahs "dead" boyfriend to me.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Could be, they could even tie ME into both of Felicity's stories, like he shows up in SC as an interested party/client/etc that's related to her new business.  Then we find out he's Cayden James and tied into her 6B (non Olicity, non Team) story.  

That's what I was thinking. He could be like a brilliant investor - which without his money Smoak Ent. wouldn't be possible? 

Because Guggenheim in that interview talked about wondering WHY people want to see these boring scenes at Felicity at the office - see what they do daily for their jobs... And this is one way that could spice it up

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Ha! They say that Dinah is stealing someone's legacy. And she's probably more comically then most characters on the show.

Haha, shocker!

Though I don't think they've handled Dinah's rise to BC very well tbh. It feels very forced, at least to me. She should've been someone else and they should have put the other name to rest, IMO. But that's nothing to do with "stealing legacy" and everything to do with the ick factor I feel about women being interchangeable, especially with the BC mantle. YMMV.

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I've been wondering why they've been keeping Emerson's character a secret when most people have already guessed he's going to be Cayden James... And I think that it goes either 2 ways. He isn't Cayden James and is some other character that's intent on making Oliver's life hell OR they're going to introduce Emerson's character in the first half of the season with a different name.Then we're going to find out in the midseason finale or 6B that he is in fact Cayden James and a very bad person. Maybe the surprise is why they're being super secretive about it - they want to fool the audience for a bit?

Yeah, I'm confused as to why they wouldn't just tell us who he is, unless they're doing some kind of bait and switch thing OR he's not Cayden James at all. At this point it could go either way. I'm leaning more towards him being Cayden James particularly as they mentioned the character being something similar to what ME has played before but with a twist (I think, IIRC?). And he did play a super intelligent computer expert/engineer/hacker in POI. So it made me think perhaps he was going to play a more "evil" version of that. IDK. 

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Sounds like Dinahs "dead" boyfriend to me.

Yeah, Dinah's BF is definitely a real possibility. Really, I'm just going to be shocked if her BF is actually dead and doesn't pop up again (whether he's Vigilante or not), especially with her getting a LI this season. 

And the "very close connection to one of our series regulars" has put Pike pretty low on my list. (Unless they consider his connection to Lance "very close"? I don't think it is/should be.)

[Guest]

I think Vigilante is either Dinah's dead boyfriend or E2 Oliver. Don't ask me how he ended up alive on E1. It's dumb but this is Arrow. LOL.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Guest

[wonderwall]

I can't really imagine Dinah getting 2 villains/morallly compromised characters to deal with this season...

I'm guessing Vigilante is going to be for Diggle. I'm not really sure what connection he'll have to him, but I doubt it's going to be Dinah.

[leopardprint]

Perhaps Cayden James is an alias as well like Adrian Chase/Simon Whatever/ Prometheus. I think his introduction as an investor for Felicity's company or interested in working with her seems like a good possibility. Maybe he's actually playing a super smart tech comic book character? 

[Starfish35]

10 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Sounds like Dinahs "dead" boyfriend to me.

What I was thinking.

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I think Vigilante is either Dinah's dead boyfriend or E2 Oliver. Don't ask me how he ended up alive on E1. It's dumb but this is Arrow. LOL.

Haha, I'd actually feel slightly sorry for SA if they just dumped the flashbacks only to give him double duty as an alternate version of Oliver. ? 

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I can't really imagine Dinah getting 2 villains/morallly compromised characters to deal with this season...

I'm guessing Vigilante is going to be for Diggle. I'm not really sure what connection he'll have to him, but I doubt it's going to be Dinah.

Maybe Vigilante is Diggle's dad or future JJ or possibly Baby Sara from an alternate dimension who has time traveled to exact revenge on Barry. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by leopardprint

[Velocity23]

But we never met E2 Oliver. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Haha, shocker!

Though I don't think they've handled Dinah's rise to BC very well tbh. It feels very forced, at least to me. She should've been someone else and they should have put the other name to rest, IMO. But that's nothing to do with "stealing legacy" and everything to do with the ick factor I feel about women being interchangeable, especially with the BC mantle. 

I think they've handled Dinah the character well but her introduction and role in the show less then- if that makes sense? Like she gels well as a character with the rest of the cast but I still don't know why she's even there? Like shes neither a huge asset to the team or a huge liability she's just there because?

 

But then Laurel was exactly the same. She was written as just there because and didn't feel like a functional necessary part of the team. I don't think the writers are particularly enamoured with Black Canary as it pertains to needing her to tell Olivers story. For all the pr bs about not being able to have Green Arrow without Black Canary they certainly don't seem to put much thought into her. Only Sara seemed to get the most thought out writing and that's because she was their own adaption/spin on the character and not some 'Because Comics' version.

[way2interested]

At this point Rene, Curtis, Lance, Thea, and Diggle (unless Richard Dragon actually is for Diggle while Anatoly and the Bratva/FBI agent are the two for Oliver) are the ones without a personal villain semi-announced so far, so I'm guessing it's for one of them.

[LeighAn]

10 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I think Vigilante is either Dinah's dead boyfriend or E2 Oliver. Don't ask me how he ended up alive on E1. It's dumb but this is Arrow. LOL.

 

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

But we never met E2 Oliver. 

I thought E2 Oliver is dead? He killed himself instead of Robert? 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

But we never met E2 Oliver. 

MG or WM or whoever it was said it was someone we'd already seen on the show. Technically we've already seen Oliver. 

Anyway, it's just a theory. I need to remember I shouldn't post theories on here otherwise it gets taken as fact. Haha.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Guest

[Starfish35]

Just now, LeighAn said:

 

I thought E2 Oliver is dead? He killed himself instead of Robert? 

He died, but I don't think we know how.  All we know is that Robert survived and became the Green Arrow on that Earth instead of Oliver.

[Cleanqueen]

Definitely sounds like Dinah's ex. Wendy said one of our series regular's, which is pretty much what they refer to the newbies at.

I am truly excited for Michael and especially his scenes with Emily, it's by far the one thing I am enthusiastic about the most for season 6.

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

MG or WM or whoever it was said it was someone we'd already seen on the show. Technically we've already seen Oliver. 

Anyway, it's just a theory. I need to remember I shouldn't post theories on here otherwise it gets taken as fact. Haha.

Ooh! I forgot about it being someone we have already seen. Although technically we've seen Dinahs boyfriend as well.

 

If it is back from the dead E2 Oliver I totally expect him to be Smoaked by Felicity and have full on Nope seriously your still here face around BS just for the lols ;) 

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

MG or WM or whoever it was said it was someone we'd already seen on the show. Technically we've already seen Oliver. 

Anyway, it's just a theory. I need to remember I shouldn't post theories on here otherwise it gets taken as fact. Haha.

That is like saying E1 LL is the same as E2 LL to me. 

[Belinea]

How do you go from E1 to E2? Do you buy a ticket for a special plane? Why do you not go back? Is E1 the better earth? 

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

He died, but I don't think we know how.  All we know is that Robert survived and became the Green Arrow on that Earth instead of Oliver.

Actually, all we know is that Earth 2 thinks he's dead, right? That being said, I don't think E2 Oliver is Vigilante or we'll ever see him. He may be the one case where no body doesn't mean not really dead/could pop up at any time. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

That is like saying E1 LL is the same as E2 LL to me. 

Haha. Not what I meant at all. E2 Oliver looks the same as E1 Oliver. In lawyer speak that means, yes, technically we have seen him on the show already...because they look exactly the same. I can see MG spinning his words like that. That's all. Again, I'm not saying it's happening. It's just a theory. I'll leave it there.