Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Okay..then I remembered wrong about the casting..still considering they put the new line in the first episode obviously they changed or were told to change direction between SDCC and the premiere..starting to look for the actress in September fits.

Yeah, I don't think they wanted a new BC or at least not right away but clearly someone did. That casting call is interesting though, considering they wrote and cast away from that (for now anyway). Tinah doesn't really have much chemistry with Oliver, doesn't really interact with him one on one just as part of the team and they've never come close to kissing, he was with Susan and then Felicity (sort of) for most of her run, not that they cast Susan for great chemistry either. But maybe they wanted to keep their options open for the future or were told to? It does seem that Tinah's main story is likely to be more BC vs BS than anything and maybe someone as a LI.

[LeighAn]

9 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah, I don't think they wanted a new BC or at least not right away but clearly someone did. That casting call is interesting though, considering they wrote and cast away from that (for now anyway). Tinah doesn't really have much chemistry with Oliver, doesn't really interact with him one on one just as part of the team and they've never come close to kissing, he was with Susan and then Felicity (sort of) for most of her run, not that they cast Susan for great chemistry either. But maybe they wanted to keep their options open for the future or were told to? It does seem that Tinah's main story is likely to be more BC vs BS than anything and maybe someone as a LI.

You have to remember that the casting sides for Nyssa also included a love scene with Oliver. I think it's just about demonstrating an actresses range. I think it's more then proven Dinah and Oliver aren't going to be romantic especially as they are setting up for an Olicity wedding. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

20 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah, I don't think they wanted a new BC or at least not right away but clearly someone did. That casting call is interesting though, considering they wrote and cast away from that (for now anyway). Tinah doesn't really have much chemistry with Oliver, doesn't really interact with him one on one just as part of the team and they've never come close to kissing, he was with Susan and then Felicity (sort of) for most of her run, not that they cast Susan for great chemistry either. But maybe they wanted to keep their options open for the future or were told to? It does seem that Tinah's main story is likely to be more BC vs BS than anything and maybe someone as a LI.

Yeah..their tone changed fast from "our show is our show so it doesn't have to follow the comics" to "BC is the most important character next to GA (talking about the comics)"..from the way they talked after they killed LL and at SDCC I think they thought they were done with attempting to bring a BC on the show..

I don't know if they meant to test a romantic chemistry or just to see if there was any chemistry that is important even as a platonic team mate but either way at this point they picked a lane..

[tv echo]

14 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Has Richard Dragon been confirm by anyone connected to the show besides that casting notice which I think came from Reddit?

MG spoiled Richard Dragon at SDCC...

-- MG: "We are really, really thrilled. And you can also expect a really cool announcement, uh, not now, uh, about, uh, a character, uh, whose character's name is Richard Dragon from the comics, who will also be among our villains that we'll be seeing this year."  (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Flicks And The City video of Arrow panel highlights and Clevver News videos of full Arrow panel, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

-- MG teased that Richard Dragon will also appear as part of this “villainous cabal.” (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Entertainment Weekly article, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

-- MG: "Um, you know, what I really like about our interpretation of Richard [Dragon] is, he’s very grounded. Like, he’s not a flamboyant Big Bad. He doesn’t wear a costume. He really is, you know, a crime lord, sort of in the, you know, Tobias Church model. But, uh, with Tobias, we really only saw him for like five episodes, so we were excited about the prospect of doing like a cool, gritty crime lord, uh, but for a longer period of time. We’ve never really done that on the show before. So it’s different."  (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Video of MG interview in Jul. 25, 2017 ComicBook article, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)
 

14 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I missed this, was this posted?

Yes. Video of ComicBook.com interview with MG (referenced in the above-tweeted FanFest article) was previously posted...

-- On whether we'll see more new members of Team Arrow this season, MG: "Um, good question. I'll say - that's very clever, like, how do I answer that without, uh, revealing who lives and who dies? ... I'll say that, regardless of what the size of the team is, post-Season 5, we're not looking right now to add additional people to it." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Video of MG interview in Jul. 25, 2017 ComicBook article, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)
 

11 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah does anyone remember what the original take had her making him promise?  

Laurel's original dying words...

-- KC will return in 501. We will find out what Laurel whispered to Oliver before she died and what Oliver promised Laurel on her deathbed. From SDCC highlight reel, Laurel: "I need you to promise me something. Your instinct has always been to go it alone. Ollie, you can't." SA: "it's something that's going to have a lasting impact not just in, uh - not just in our season premiere, but over the next couple of seasons of the show... assuming we get renewed. But it's very important, and it's going to be critical to whatever the legacy of our show is." On whether this promise was something for Oliver to do or not do, WM: “It is both actually, and you’ll find out what it was in [the Oct. 5 premiere]," adding that the reveal will “inform a lot of Season 5.” (SDCC, Jul. 23, 2016: Video of Arrow Comic-Con 2016 Highlight Reel, page 40 of Spoilers thread; Video of Arrow panel and Comicbook, Hollywood Reporter and TVLine articles, page 40 of Spoilers thread; Scan of Arrow page from July 19, 2016 TV Guide Comic-Con Special issue, page 40 of Spoilers thread; Nerd HQ, Jul. 24, 2016: Video of SA's second Nerd HQ conversation, page 453 of Social Media thread;  Aug. 16, 2016 TVLine article, page 42 of Spoilers thread; and Sep. 26, 2016 Seat42F article, page 44 of Spoilers thread)

Edited July 29, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

And here are all the Michael Emerson spoilers from SDCC...

-- Warner Bros: "Michael Emerson will join the series in the recurring role of an unnamed mystery character that has yet to be announced. The Emmy®-winning actor is known worldwide for playing both the enigmatic Benjamin Linus from Lost and the high-tech billionaire Harold Finch in Warner Bros. Television’s Person of Interest." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Warner Bros. press release, page 1567 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

-- MG: "Um, and we want to, you know - we're not going to tell you everything in this panel, uh, but we - we can tell you that, uh, one of the other members of this villainous cabal is going to be played by Michael Emerson. And we could not be more excited.... We are really, really thrilled." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Flicks And The City video of Arrow panel highlights and Clevver News videos of full Arrow panel, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

-- On what he can tease about Michael Emerson's character, MG: "We're just lucky to have him on the show, quite frankly, because we've been huge fans of his... We are talking about him playing a character who's got a lot more nuance than the typical creepy guy role that he is often cast in. Um, and we've had a lot of creative discussions with him. And I think that's one of the things that has excited us and has excited Michael is that we really want to create a character in consultation and in conjunction with him. Uh, it's not just, 'hey, here's the script, go.' Uh, it's a real interesting, two-way back and forth."  (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Video of MG interview in Jul. 25, 2017 ComicBook article, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

-- Michael Emerson will recur as an unnamed mystery character that has yet to be announced. However, it seems likely that Emerson is playing Helix leader Cayden James. When EW recently asked whether Helix and Cayden James would return in S6, WM left the door open: “You never know... They are still in the wind. We don’t like to leave those threads dangling.” (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Entertainment Weekly article, page 4 of New Spoilers thread) 

-- On whether it's fair to say that Michael Emerson will be villainous, WM: "I think it's fair to say, he's going to be, you know, morally compromised." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Video of TVLine's interview with Arrow cast in MichaelAusiello tweet, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

-- On why they wanted Michael Emerson, WM: "Well, he's obviously tremendously talented, and he has a huge amount of cred in this universe. He was on Lost and then on Person of Interest. And he's beloved by everybody involved, the studio and the network. And we feel that he's just a great get and we're really lucky to get him." Also WM: "Well, he's gonna be on the show... He's a complicated character, I'll tell you that. He's going to be playing a complicated guy... He's gonna do some good things and some bad things too." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: IGN video of interview with WM, EBR and KC, page 1569 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

-- SA joked: "I'm a big fan of Michael Emerson, and I'm f**kin' fired up... I'm going to hate to kill him." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Video of TVLine's interview with Arrow cast in MichaelAusiello tweet, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

-- On Jul. 27, 2017, Michael Emerson tweeted: "I think I'm Vancouver-bound! Excited to join a fabulous success like @ArrowCWTV. I'll just keep my head down and try to make a contribution." (ME tweet, page 5 of New Spoilers thread)

Incidentally, it was just announced yesterday that ME will also recur on Mozart In the Jungle (scheduled to be released by Amazon later in 2017)...
http://deadline.com/2017/07/mozart-in-the-jungle-michael-emerson-recur-season-4-1202138214/

Quote

Person of Interest and Lost alum Michael Emerson has been cast in a recurring role on Season 4 of the Golden Globe-winning Amazon series Mozart in the Jungle.

Emerson plays Morton Norton, an eccentric collector of classical music ephemera and curiosities who prefers the past to the present. He spends his days alone in a gothic mansion surrounded by classical music relics, dressed as a 16th century homicidal composer named Gesualdo (a composer he finds very underappreciated). When Rodrigo (Gael García Bernal) arrives, he will be pulled into Norton’s bizarre world, taking a tour of his collection.
*  *  *
Emerson won Emmys for his roles as Benjamin Linus on Lost and serial killer William Hinks on ABC’s The Practice and starred for five seasons on CBS’ Person of Interest. He’ll be seen in a recurring role on the upcoming sixth season of the CW/DC series Arrow. He’s repped by Abrams Artist Agency and Vanguard Management Group.

ETA: I've been assuming that Michael Emerson will play Cayden James. But maybe they'll cast against type and have him play Richard Dragon, in which case they'll still need to cast Cayden James.

Edited July 29, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

 

ETA: I've been assuming that Michael Emerson will play Cayden James. But maybe they'll cast against type and have him play Richard Dragon, in which case they'll still need to cast Cayden James.

I thought they said Dragon is someone else. 

[tv echo]

Here's MG's full quote from the Arrow panel at SDCC - it certainly sounds like Michael Emerson is not playing Dragon, which is why I've been assuming that he's playing Cayden...

-- MG: "Well, you know, Season 5 was really about building up this team... And by the end of the season, we had Team Arrow 2.0, in a really formidable, you know, tightly knit way. In thinking about Season 6... we really wanted to double down on this concept of family and groups and found families. So, towards that end, we started thinking in terms of a group of villains, something we’ve never done on the show before. Um, so, we're gonna have a few familiar faces, like David Nykl is coming back, uh, to reprise his role as Anatoly, and as we know from episode 518... and he's coming back with a literal vengeance. Um, and we want to, you know - we're not going to tell you everything in this panel, uh, but we - we can tell you that, uh, one of the other members of this villainous cabal is going to be played by Michael Emerson. And we could not be more excited.... We are really, really thrilled. And you can also expect a really cool announcement, uh, not now, uh, about, uh, a character, uh, whose character's name is Richard Dragon from the comics, who will also be among our villains that we'll be seeing this year. Um, so you'll be seeing a lot of different villains throughout Season 6. And more so than any kind of villain of the week thing. These are, you know, characters that we'll be seeing really throughout the season. Uh, we've never done that before." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: Flicks And The City video of Arrow panel highlights and Clevver News videos of full Arrow panel, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

Edited July 29, 2017 by tv echo

[Guest]

Haha, those Tina sides upthread. They still make me feel ill. (I can't read stuff where Oliver is with someone else, even in casting sides, LOL.)

As for the whole possible BS redemption (and the article about not adding any more team members in s6), can anyone imagine two screechers on the team at the same time? I really can't? If they intend on having KC for more than one season, then I do think a redemption is a possibility but having her on the team at the same time as Dinah just seems weird considering they're very similar - both metas, both have the canary cry...etc... It's kinda redundant, IMO. So IDK what they're doing there. For now it just seems like BS is set up to be a foil for BC but I guess we'll see. 

They definitely need to do a cull of the team. I can take or leave the new members but my vote goes to Curtis. Sorry not sorry! ;P

Edited July 29, 2017 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

They screwed up Curtis' character in S5. At this point if any of them go, I hope it's him.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

They screwed up Curtis' character in S5. At this point if any of then go, I hope it's him.

Same. If he sticks around, I hope his island explosion experience changes him back to the character I used to like. But I don't think they're even aware that they need to do something about his character so I don't know if that'll happen? 

[Featherhat]

3 hours ago, LeighAn said:

You have to remember that the casting sides for Nyssa also included a love scene with Oliver. I think it's just about demonstrating an actresses range. I think it's more then proven Dinah and Oliver aren't going to be romantic especially as they are setting up for an Olicity wedding. 

Oh I don't think they are in the slightest (at least not for the foreseeable I never say never for a TV show) but it *could* have been a possibility last season if someone at DC was determined but once she came on the show yeah it was clear they weren't interested going there. I find JH ok, but mainly just "there" so I wonder what range she was actually required to play at the audition beyond "turn up look attractive and athletic and don't make people cringe" which she manages. KL OTOH I would have hired to play Nyssa on the spot and had her under contract asap, well she was a semi regular in S3 I guess but I was frustrated by her storyline.

 

37 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Haha, those Tina sides upthread. They still make me feel ill. (I can't read stuff where Oliver is with someone else, even in casting sides, LOL.)

As for the whole possible BS redemption (and the article about not adding any more team members in s6), can anyone imagine two screechers on the team at the same time? I really can't? If they intend on having KC for more than one season, then I do think a redemption is a possibility but having her on the team at the same time as Dinah just seems weird considering they're very similar - both metas, both have the canary cry...etc... It's kinda redundant, IMO. So IDK what they're doing there. For now it just seems like BS is set up to be a foil for BC but I guess we'll see. 

They definitely need to do a cull of the team. I can take or leave the new members but my vote goes to Curtis. Sorry not sorry! ;P

Good point about two screechers with  the same skills, it might get repetitive enough when they fight each other. I think there was more chance of that when KC was re announced as a S6 regular before JH was and no one was sure if this meant they had switched course again.

[Primal Slayer]

Having two characters with the same power is definitely weird and part of the reason why I don't see KC being around next season but The Flash has 2 1/2 Speedsters (Jesse is in and out constantly) so it would be totally plausible to keep both around if they decide to do so. 

And even Arrow had 2 archers on the team at the same time before retiring Thea.

[ComicFan777]

I think at one point in comics, Black Canary lost her canary cry and learned to only depend on her fighting skills, so you wouldn't necessarily have to have two screechers on the team if they wanted to go there.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think at one point in comics, Black Canary lost her canary cry and learned to only depend on her fighting skills, so you wouldn't necessarily have to have two screechers on the team if they wanted to go there.

I feel like they already are at point of not having DD depend on her cry and it will probably go that away again in S6 for both her and Siren since the two know they are pretty evenly matched.

[tv echo]

My impression from the EP interviews is that they don't currently plan a redemption arc for Black Siren this season, but they're not going to kill her off and they're not ruling out anything in the future.

[statsgirl]

15 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Why did he say about Emily?

Nothing bad.  it's just when he was asked in the FB Q&B what is was like to work with her (at least a couple of times I think), he said "Okay. Now let me tell you about how close Rene is to Oliver and he's just like him and it's so great to work with Stephen."  At that point he's been shooting almost as many scenes with Emily as he had with Stephen so he could have come up with something but it was like Felicity/Emily barely mattered..

He hadn't learned what the EPs knew by the time they introduced Barry, that an important road to fandom's heart is through Felicity.

[BkWurm1]

I swear he also said something worse than just his constant evasions and changes of the subject at least once, like wondering why he kept getting asked about working with her or being sick of it.  Or maybe that was just my impression based on his attitude?  Either way, the way he seemed to go out of his way not to talk about her stuck out like a sore thumb.  

[statsgirl]

I think you're right, he did say something about why he was always being asked about her.  Then he dismissed Felicity as a character and moved on to talking about how much he's like Oliver.

[LeighAn]

That was when he did that Facebook live on the CW account right? 

 

I think he was just super cocky when he started this that everyone was instantly going to love Wild Dog just because he's tough just because and didn't realise that you actually don't become a fan fave on a whim and that being a ass to fans on social media especially doesn't make you a fan fave. 

 

I feel like now that he's gotten some understanding that the fans don't love him as much as he expected them to he's mellowed out a bit. 

[Featherhat]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Nothing bad.  it's just when he was asked in the FB Q&B what is was like to work with her (at least a couple of times I think), he said "Okay. Now let me tell you about how close Rene is to Oliver and he's just like him and it's so great to work with Stephen."  At that point he's been shooting almost as many scenes with Emily as he had with Stephen so he could have come up with something but it was like Felicity/Emily barely mattered..

He hadn't learned what the EPs knew by the time they introduced Barry, that an important road to fandom's heart is through Felicity.

I guess looking at it from his POV he's on an action show centred around Oliver/SA, he knows he's potentially up for a regular role so positioning himself paired with the lead character/actor seemed pretty smart. Especially as the EPs were constantly going on about "Masks, fight scenes, comics!" in 5A. He didn't understand why the hell people kept asking about the blonde IT girl, especially as Felicity wasn't given very much in the beginning of the season and Rene had no interest in technology. If he didn't regularly interact with any fandoms on SM before let alone Arrow he might not have understood how it works.

Of course common sense dictates just politely answer every question and then write separate posts tweets about how WD is mini GA, how great is SA and not get publically worked up about it and common sense says if people keep asking about her then she's a popular character. At least his manager should have said something.

Once it became clear that even a lot of action and comic book fans/articles were not fans of Wild Dong, he did change his tune a bit. Funny thing is Oliver barely gave much of a stuff about him and they didn't really end up having many scenes together in 5B except as part of the team. It was Quentin that made Rene more bearable and that ended up being his main storyline and possibly a reason why he got the SR contract otherwise he's just one of Oliver's masks, for now at least. He might join the big group of people with kids storyline (if it exists) next season.

[tv echo]

Richard Dragon mentioned in a TVLine Q...

Why Wasn't Thrones' Yara Ready for Battle? Casual Flubs the '90s? What Is Once's Regina Up To? And More Qs!
By Vlada Gelman, Matt Webb Mitovich, Michael Ausiello, Kimberly Roots, Andy Swift, Dave Nemetz, Ryan Schwartz and Charlie Mason / July 28 2017, 11:07 AM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/07/28/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-2-yara-greyjoy-sea-battle-tv-questions-answers/

Quote

5 | Who would you cast as incoming Arrow villain Richard Dragon?

[tv echo]

Transcribed from video of WM interview in ComicBook article (just posted in New Spoilers thread)...

-- WM: "I think what we really wanted to do was talk about what the successes were last year and make sure that everyone knows we're going to double down on that and try to do the same kind of thing but even better in Season 6."

-- On showing Oliver as a father, WM: "It's really changed things. I mean, we're really trying to take Oliver as a character in a new direction. He's had this five years of experience being - you know, getting advice and taking wisdom from all kinds of places... Starting in Season 6 we wanted to sort of flip that dynamic and see him in a more, I don't know, paternal role... He's that way with the team and he's going to be, you know - whichever of the team survives - and he's going to be that way with his son as well. And it's just a new, interesting dynamic that will keep the character fresh and, hopefully, keep the show fresh as well."

-- On whether we'll see right away who survives and whether we'll see Oliver reacting to the potential loss, WM: "I think you're gonna see both. Um, we will get answers. You'll know by the end of the premiere who made it and who didn't. And you'll see Oliver mourning. You'll see some - you'll definitely see him going through a grieving process."

-- On what opportunities does Richard Dragon present as opposed to some other villains in the past, WM: "I think the thing we get out of Richard Dragon is a different way of approaching what worked last season, which was a very - we liked that we went back to this gritty crime drama for the show, and Richard Dragon gives us an opportunity to do that. He's from the streets, he's a fighter. He's from - you know, more from the Glades side of town. He's a gang leader. And we're going to use that to our advantage and also explore new territory. I mean, we've seen Oliver go up against a lot of people, but nobody quite like him."

-- On whether we'll see the idea of Slade Wilson's son being alive and out there as a story thread coming up, WM: "I can't tell you exactly that, but what I can say is that the theme this season is family and Slade will definitely be - whether it's in flashbacks or present day, we're not 100% sure yet, he'll be dealing with similar - a similar sort of debate and similar thematic territory."

Edited July 30, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- On whether we'll see the idea of Slade Wilson's son being alive and out there as a story thread coming up, WM: "I can't tell you exactly that, but what I can say is that the theme this season is family and Slade will definitely be - whether it's in flashbacks or present day, we're not 100% sure yet, he'll be dealing with similar - a similar sort of debate and similar thematic territory."

The show hasn't made me care about Oliver's son so I don't know why I would care about Slade's. 

I think the street level villains work so much better on Arrow so that and Helix sound promising. I do think Prometheus sort of ran out of steam at the end of the season so maybe having two big villains will help with that. 

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think there's a full on redemption planned for Slade. I'm guessing he does something good in 601, after first abandoning the team. Then his 2 part arc will deal with Joe and probably calling in a favor from Oliver.

My guess is we end up with an anti-hero situation.  Slade is NOT on Team Arrow, not one of the good guys but, isn't an out right enemy or villain. He also won't be around the way Merlyn was so we'll just end up with a truce.

Oliver: I can't forgive you for killing my mother but you saved my sister/wifey/brother so I'll let you go but, if you ever come to my city again all bets are off. 

[statsgirl]

I'm not sure what WH is talking about when she says " I think it can really go one of two ways for her, especially depending on if she's alive or not at the beginning of the season. Um, I think that she's just going to try to grapple with every piece of information that she's been given over the last, like, six months really. She's gotten handed a lot of information about herself, and about her family."

What information did she get?  She already knows Slade killed Moira, she already knows that William exists. She knows Oliver has killed people.  Other than Malcolm being willing to step on a land mine for her, what did she learn?

9 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I guess looking at it from his POV he's on an action show centred around Oliver/SA, he knows he's potentially up for a regular role so positioning himself paired with the lead character/actor seemed pretty smart. Especially as the EPs were constantly going on about "Masks, fight scenes, comics!" in 5A.[snip]

Once it became clear that even a lot of action and comic book fans/articles were not fans of Wild Dong, he did change his tune a bit. Funny thing is Oliver barely gave much of a stuff about him and they didn't really end up having many scenes together in 5B except as part of the team. It was Quentin that made Rene more bearable and that ended up being his main storyline and possibly a reason why he got the SR contract otherwise he's just one of Oliver's masks, for now at least. He might join the big group of people with kids storyline (if it exists) next season.

I don't know whether it was his decision or whether he was told that WD is a mini-Green Arrow but on a show with Diggle and four other masks, it was really annoying how much he kept pushing the "I am just like Oliver" button.  If anything, he was like Diggle, with his only skill using guns (unlike Evelyn who could shoot arrows, Curtis who had his technical background and Rory with his magic rags).  And also like Diggle and unlike Oliver, he was a father who had raised his child.

I think the Rene/Quentin storyline was created because the response to his character was so negative.  They deliberately took him out of the bunker and put him into the mayor's life with a completely different mentor and it was only then that people started liking him.

[bijoux]

@statsgirl, I raised an eyebrow at that Thea's learned a lot over the past six months, because as you said, aside from Malcolm stepping on a landmine for her, what new information did she get? I guess being a ruthless cutthroat in the making in Moira's vein? When will she learn that that can be extremely powerful and good when channeled correctly? That is a storyline I'd like to see.

[Morrigan2575]

She learned stuff about Robert and I'm guessing WH meant Thea learned a lot about herself.

I thought the Robert stuff was particularly poignant given Merlyn's ending. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

And you'll see Oliver mourning. You'll see some - you'll definitely see him going through a grieving process."

I still don't think anyone really close to Oliver will die so I translate Oliver grieving to Oliver feeling responsible for some deaths.

Edited July 30, 2017 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

We know Diggle and Felicity survive, although Diggle will apparently be hiding a secret injury. We know Slade, Dinah, Rene and Black Siren survive. We expect Thea to survive, since MG said he'll never kill her off, but if she's seriously injured or in a coma, would that cause Oliver to grieve? 

Curtis is a possibility, although it didn't sound like he was off the show from the way he talked and acted all happy at SDCC.

Quentin is a possibility but he's needed for S6 storylines involving Dinah and Black Siren, not to mention his developing friendship with Rene. So I think he survives as well.

Samantha is likely dead, so I suppose Oliver could be mourning her. However, he's seen her maybe a handful of times in the past year, after 10 years of no contact, and a one-night stand before that. She's virtually a stranger, so it would seem odd that he would go through a grieving process for her. At most, he would feel sad for William. But who knows with these EPs. If Samantha dies, they'll probably have Oliver acting like he lost a long-time girlfriend.

Evelyn is possibly dead, but would the show kill off someone that young? Also, I can see Oliver feeling maybe misplaced guilt and sadness, but I can't see him going through a grieving process for her. Also, she helped Chase put him and his family/friends in jeopardy.

I suppose he might mourn Talia, but again she helped Chase put Oliver's family/friends in jeopardy, not to mention trained Chase for the purpose of hurting Oliver.

I've of two minds as to whether or not Nyssa survives. On the one hand, she's such a great character who could show up from time to time on both Arrow and LoT. On the other hand, killing her off would eliminate any tricky obstacles/questions about the legality of her Nanda Parbat marriage to Oliver. And I can see Oliver mourning her death.

Edited July 30, 2017 by tv echo

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I still don't think anyone really close to Oliver will die so I translate Oliver grieving to Oliver feeling responsible for some deaths.

Yeah the most I can see in "grieving" is Samantha, but even then that's more of feeling the weight of the consequences after (for his son, the subsequent guilt, etc.). Although that one shot of Oliver on the island in the s6 footage looks to me like Oliver's usual "something bad just happened indirectly on my watch" face looking down at someone, so I'm guessing that has to be someone injured/dead.

And something else that I'm getting from some of WM's interviews is that it seems like they're going to do a gradual reveal of who's alive in 601 through present day/flashback reveals, so I'm wondering which characters they'll be saving for the end to reveal to be alive or the order they choose (my bet is on Diggle to be the last one just to set up his issues as one of the end of the episode "twists," but I'm wondering how/when they'll choose to reveal others-i.e. revealing Felicity's alive first like they did in 410 for the grave or closer to last to build up "tension").

[tv echo]

Also, in one of his SDCC interviews, MG said: "We're doing that [five-month time gap] again this year, but we are gonna, over the course of the episode, flash back to the moments right before and right after the finale. So you will get to see, you know, who lives and who dies. But you will also get it in this very piece-mealed out iteration." 

Edited July 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

Most probably Samantha or Nyssa would be my guess as well. one is the mother of his son and it affects him on that level even if she was a ONS, for whatever reason they keep making a big deal out of Nyssa saying "husband" every time she's popped up since and they sort of went through some things together and she was important to both Sara and St. Laurel. But if it *is* Nyssa they'd better get CL back for a couple of scenes or have her grieve on LOT. Then again they could make up reasons why he's grieving for Evelyn and/or Talia too.

[insomniadreams88]

If they want Oliver to be grieving - even months later in the present in the premiere - he will be, no matter who dies. They'll come up with some (weak) reason for it. 

Although comments about Oliver grieving can simply be because he's the only one whose reaction they can definitively talk about. They can't even really talk about William - not that it appears anyone has asked about him - because the only person the kid would grieve is his mother and while it seems they're all but saying "Samantha is dead/at the very least seriously injured and in a coma," they're not going to come out and say that. 

Has KL been spotted on set? I wouldn't be surprised if they do the presumed dead but maybe shows up later for Nyssa depending on actor availability. I'm sure they have at least one more "husband" comment in them. 

[Velocity23]

KL is not available. She has a new show. 

[Primal Slayer]

They better not pull this super secret cliff hanger type thing ever again, it's so annoying that the actors have to keep so hush hush. 

[leopardprint]

33 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They better not pull this super secret cliff hanger type thing ever again, it's so annoying that the actors have to keep so hush hush. 

Especially if the only person who ends up dying/incapacitated is Samantha so Oliver can play dad for a few episodes and give advice to Diggle. 

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

for whatever reason they keep making a big deal out of Nyssa saying "husband" every time she's popped

Maybe the idea that he can't marry Felicity because he's still technically married (in a ceremony forced on him and Nyssa by a now-defunct assassin cult)?  For my part, I think she calls him "husband" just to give him shit about it.  She clearly doesn't consider the "marriage" as binding.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe the idea that he can't marry Felicity because he's still technically married (in a ceremony forced on him and Nyssa by a now-defunct assassin cult)?  For my part, I think she calls him "husband" just to give him shit about it.  She clearly doesn't consider the "marriage" as binding.

I agree she just says it to get a rise out of him.  No one was worried it was a valid marriage last year when Olicity were engaged.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

I agree she just says it to get a rise out of him.  No one was worried it was a valid marriage last year when Olicity were engaged.

Agree! It's Nyssa's sense of humor I think. Just like she told Slade all the juicy goss about them. 

[Mellowyellow]

This is probably my wishful thinking but could he be grieving Curtis? He knows Curtis longer than the others so he could feel more guilt if Curtis dies.

[Morrigan2575]

9 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Agree! It's Nyssa's sense of humor I think. Just like she told Slade all the juicy goss about them. 

 

9 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I agree she just says it to get a rise out of him.  No one was worried it was a valid marriage last year when Olicity were engaged.

I'll be honest I don't get that from Nyssa/KL.I have no doubt that the writers through it in because they think it's funny. I just don't get that from KL's performance. She doesn't really (that I can recall) change her voice or facial expression in a way that I would know Nyssa is just taking the piss out of Oliver.

IMO Nyssa says Husband in the same way she says Sister or Beloved. These are titles and how those people connect to her. I assume when she says Husband she means it because that's his role.

[bijoux]

I'm browsing through the cast's and Bamford's Instagram accounts to see if there's anything new, and I just realized that for all the supposed secrecy the show is trying to maintain about who lived and who died, Bamford totally spoiled that Felicity lives when he posted he and other production crew members were on their way to wish EBR happy birthday during the shooting of 602. LOL Not that I think anybody honestly had money on Felicity, but way to keep up the ruse, dude.

[tv echo]

^^^ There's also this...

[Midnight Lullaby]

14 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe the idea that he can't marry Felicity because he's still technically married (in a ceremony forced on him and Nyssa by a now-defunct assassin cult)? For my part, I think she calls him "husband" just to give him shit about it.  She clearly doesn't consider the "marriage" as binding.

In season 4 when she came to Oliver for help I got at the feeling that for her the marriage was binding and I guess in a way it makes sense considering she has always lived inside the league and followed their rules even if rewatching season 2 it's like they wrote a different character. I believe MG when he says he finds it funny so I think their bad sense of humor is the reason they have her call him that.

[Featherhat]

20 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

In season 4 when she came to Oliver for help I got at the feeling that for her the marriage was binding and I guess in a way it makes sense considering she has always lived inside the league and followed their rules even if rewatching season 2 it's like they wrote a different character. I believe MG when he says he finds it funny so I think their bad sense of humor is the reason they have her call him that.

Yeah I don't think they mean anything by it, I'm just annoyed that Sara/Nyssa had all of one episode focusing on their relationship and Nyssa has had far more screen time with Laurel and Oliver. Yeah I know she was dead and then on another show but still. Not to mention forcing a lesbian to marry a man and then making jokes about it. Eh. Given that he was days away from marrying Felicity before it ended I don't think Oliver considers it valid unless it suits his LOA focused purposes. But if she's dying then it could theoretically be added to his "grief". Then again he could probably grieve for Captain Boomerang if the writers wanted it.

 

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

I'm browsing through the cast's and Bamford's Instagram accounts to see if there's anything new, and I just realized that for all the supposed secrecy the show is trying to maintain about who lived and who died, Bamford totally spoiled that Felicity lives when he posted he and other production crew members were on their way to wish EBR happy birthday during the shooting of 602. LOL Not that I think anybody honestly had money on Felicity, but way to keep up the ruse, dude.

I don't think they're being particularly subtle really. I guess they could always say "we're doing flashbacks about the person who died" if they wanted to sort of pretend it was her or anyone else who happens to mention shooting.

[BkWurm1]

10 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

I'll be honest I don't get that from Nyssa/KL.I have no doubt that the writers through it in because they think it's funny. I just don't get that from KL's performance. She doesn't really (that I can recall) change her voice or facial expression in a way that I would know Nyssa is just taking the piss out of Oliver.

IMO Nyssa says Husband in the same way she says Sister or Beloved. These are titles and how those people connect to her. I assume when she says Husband she means it because that's his role.

One of the reasons I decided she does do it to needle Oliver is the fact that she told Slade all about it.  Oliver said Nyssa talks too much but Nyssa is a woman of few words.  In the past, she has only addressed Oliver as Husband as a greeting.  But she filled Slade in on background details.  He knew she was Ra's' daughter and somehow also knew it wasn't real and he could be amused by it.   Plus, her marriage was valid by League rules and she's the one that dissolved the League so I can't imagine her really thinking they were still married any more than any of the other vows members of the League had made were valid.  Everyone was released from them.   It's conjecture but It fits with my head canon of Nyssa having a very dry sense of humor.   I can't remember specifics but I also swear there have been other instances where she's make jokes with a straight face.   

[leopardprint]

48 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

One of the reasons I decided she does do it to needle Oliver is the fact that she told Slade all about it.  Oliver said Nyssa talks too much but Nyssa is a woman of few words.  In the past, she has only addressed Oliver as Husband as a greeting.  But she filled Slade in on background details.  He knew she was Ra's' daughter and somehow also knew it wasn't real and he could be amused by it.   Plus, her marriage was valid by League rules and she's the one that dissolved the League so I can't imagine her really thinking they were still married any more than any of the other vows members of the League had made were valid.  Everyone was released from them.   It's conjecture but It fits with my head canon of Nyssa having a very dry sense of humor.   I can't remember specifics but I also swear there have been other instances where she's make jokes with a straight face.   

This was so hamfisted, because as you say, she's a woman of few words and why would she care about Oliver's love life enough to tell Slade of all people during some super urgent rescue mission. All so Slade could give more sage advice he learned during his Spa ARGUS detox. I'm thinking Slade asked her because he loves knowing Oliver's business. 

[Simba122504]

Does Andrew Kreisberg hate Olicity? I ask this because of a comment I seen on another site. I know he left after S2 to work on "The Flash." Was he against it while on "Arrow?" Sorry if this is in the wrong section. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Simba122504

[LeighAn]

10 minutes ago, Simba122504 said:

Does Andrew Kreisberg hate Olicity? I ask this because of a comment I seen on another site. I know he left after S2 to work on "The Flash." Was he against it while on "Arrow?" Sorry if this is in the wrong section. 

He has made as many pro Olicity comments as he has pro Lauriver comments, if not more, so I don't think he has strong inclinations one way or the other. In fact he said at comic con that the show didn't become sucessful until it became focused on Oliver Felicity and Diggle. He also said that Oliver and Felicity are the two people in your life you just want to say to them "why aren't you guys together- you should be together?"

 

Hes probably more supportive of GA/BC then Marc and Wendy because he wrote them in the comics but considering both Marc and Wendy have gone on the record as saying that they planned to drop Lauriver and move on to Olicity in season 2 Andrew would have been just as involved in that decision for the reasons they chose (the fact that Lauriver failed with the audience and the recognised lack of chemistry between Katie Stephen vs chemistry between Stephen Emily) as anybody else connected to the show.

[tv echo]

Filming on Aug. 3 at Orpheum Theater...