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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
13 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Don't ever mention pictures when Laurel is the conversation topic. They might decide to blow up that photo, frame it and hang it in the middle of the bunker next. 

Nah. Oliver's gonna put the pic inside the memorial case because that thing will never die. 

It's just funny because killing LL was probably the best thing for her character as she's had more focus and elevation to hero status than when she was actually alive. LOL. 

Edited by Guest
Trisha

Trisha

16 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Will the mannequin be able to reach up and awkwardly cup Oliver's cheek?

LOL. I don't get who they're trying to target with teases like this. Last hiatus they teased the Laurel statue, and that didn't really do anything to build excitement or ratings for the premiere.  (The replies on MG's tweet are golden, though.)

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Guest

35 minutes ago, Trisha said:

(The replies on MG's tweet are golden, though.)

I thought the replies were not...the best idea tbh. Isn't it better to be apathetic about things? MG thrives on any kind of buzz, including hate, so he's probably loving it. That's why I'd keep quiet. I get fans feeling frustrated though, especially when he started S5 promo off the same way with promo art of that awful BC statue. And here I thought he didn't like repeating storylines and letting the show go stale???

statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

The Laurel stans are replying to have BS be redeemed and take her place on the team as the real Black Canary.

I'm so naive, when I saw the picture I thought yeah, Dinah's new costume.  I didn't connect the "memorial" part.  Because it's so stupid, Tommy is dead, dead, Moira is dead, dead, Robert is dead, dead but there aren't endless memorials to them. Roy lost his identity and had to move away alone but there' no memorial to him. And it's not even because being on Team Arrow that Laurel died, she was fridged because Quentin said no to DD.  Unless there is a specific story point to this, it's really just a farce at this point.

9 hours ago, LeighAn said:

If I have to sit through some Siren flash back ep I hope they go full left of centre and make her reasons for going evil something we haven't already predicted. 

I was going to say that has there been anything we haven't predicted? but then I remember the Chase reveal and that was pretty cool so there's a chance.

But the Laurel memorial case made me lose hope again.

8 hours ago, imusuallysweet said:

I guess I missed a lot too. The reason they broke up was never really addressed. At least not on Oliver's end. They framed his actions as right & had her doing all the apologizing. That was bull. & then her entire Helix arc was basically all about him. Not about everything she's been through. That episode to me only benefited one person in the relationship. It should have been rewarding for both individuals. It totally crapped all over Felicity & no their problems aren't fixed. They're still there.

Everything always gets framed from Oliver's POV and every story is about him with a few exceptions (e.g. Laurel's addiction arc) which I guess is somewhat okay since the show is called Arrow but instead of constantly bringing in new characters and replaying the same storybeats, I wish they would spend more time fleshing out the POV of the existing characters on the stories.  As frustrating as it was that Felicity's s4 and s5 arcs like Havenrock and Helix ended up being about Oliver, it was even worse for Diggle and Thea.  After being nothing but a prop in Malcolm's stories for s3 and 4, the only interesting this Thea got to do s5, getting her Moira on, was dismissed as something bad and the reason she had to go away to repent and become good again.

That is the story the show needs to spend time on, not yet another Black Canary memorial when they've got a new Black Canary right there.

If I were Dinah, I'd be quitting the team.  But I bet it's going to be her idea to justify it.

Edited by statsgirl
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calliope1975

calliope1975

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Tommy is dead, dead, Moira is dead, dead, Robert is dead, dead but there aren't endless memorials to them. Roy lost his identity and had to move away alone but there' no memorial to him. And it's not even because being on Team Arrow that Laurel died, she was fridged because Quentin said no to DD.  Unless there is a specific story point to this, it's really just a farce at this point.

I totally agree. If anyone in this show deserves a memorial, or at the least, a charity in her name, it's Moira Freakin' Queen. She did a horrible thing, finally took responsibility, served time, inexplicably ran for mayor with a ton of community support, and died protecting her children. 

But I have become immune to the dumb things this show does, so sure, let's put LL statues and memorials all over town. Why not? I just had a thought that MG is such a dick/troll he'd probably have Mayor Queen dedicate a bench to LL in Starling City's park, and then I'd have to find his car to key.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I disagree... Moira hardly served time for taking part in a tragedy that killed hundreds. A memorial is generally for people who've helped the community, and while Moira dying for her children is honorable - I don't think that's something worthy of a memorial. 

I love Moira so much and I miss that badass bitch like crazy, but she didn't deserve to be memorialized. Neither did Tommy or LL... 

As for Roy, he left the city as a criminal. I can see why they didn't make a memorial for him.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

12 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I disagree... Moira hardly served time for taking part in a tragedy that killed hundreds. A memorial is generally for people who've helped the community, and while Moira dying for her children is honorable - I don't think that's something worthy of a memorial. 

I love Moira so much and I miss that badass bitch like crazy, but she didn't deserve to be memorialized. Neither did Tommy or LL... 

As for Roy, he left the city as a criminal. I can see why they didn't make a memorial for him.

Well, yeah, you are correct. I just figure if we're handing out memorials...  I think I'm just annoyed at the elevation of LL to a degree that wasn't earned and wasn't what I saw on my TV. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

The Black Canary was a vigilante who broke multiple laws in spite of being an ADA but she still got a huge chocolate statue on the pier.  It's similar to Roy who "died" as the Arrow, someone who was also a vigilante but who had done a lot of good and who I believe was never convicted of what he was arrested for.  Six of one, half dozen of the other but still she got the statue and he got nothing.

But even if neither Moira nor Tommy (who died trying to save Laurel from her own stupidity) nor the Arrow deserved a public statue like the Black Canary got, how about a private memorial like what Laurel is presumably getting from that picture?  They don't have Roy's old suit in a glass case.  (Yes, I know Thea is currently wearing it but it's the idea of the thing.)  They didn't put up one to Sara when she was dead s3.

Psychologically, it is just so wrong to have a glass case with a mannequin wearing Dead Laurel's Black Canary outfit and have the living team forced to walk by it constantly as they head off to fight crime.  It's enough to give one PTSD.

Especially as Laurel didn't die because she was the Black Canary.  She died because she was Quentin's daughter.  It's so very fake.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

It's probably too much to hope that Black Siren breaks in and destroys this memorial like she did the statue so it's not around for long, right? 

Maybe we'll just see it in the premiere, with Dinah standing in front of it (maybe with Oliver or Lance with her) and looking at it before going to where her own mannequin will now be with the others, and that's the only time we see it? (Again, probably too much to hope for.) 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
39 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe the memorial is there so Dinah can stop and genuflect while she asks herself what would Laurel do? Then she can go out and do the opposite, because Laurel did a ton of dumb shit.

I expect candles and flowers, lots of scenes of Dinah pondering her place on the team, "can I truly be the Black Canary?", "Can I live up to her example?" Real, heavy, existential pondering about life.  LOL

Joking aside, I expect it will be shown once or twice as part of Dinah's journey to putting on the mask and then forgotten. Although a tiny part of me expects that it'll be destroyed by BS once Dinah becomes the Black Canary.

 

Ahh, the Meta

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

10 hours ago, LeighAn said:

 

If I have to sit through some Siren flash back ep I hope they go full left of centre and make her reasons for going evil something we haven't already predicted. 

I'm hoping her origin is something along the lines of: Lance family is even more screwed up on E2 or Dinah/Quentin are dead,Sara is off somewhere and after Oliver dies Laurel doesn't have anyone left to turn to or tie her to Starling City so she moves to CC to start over which is rampant with crime. Laurel suffers many muggings and near death experiences with bad guys, gets hit by the PA during a bad encounter which leaves the guy dead, shortly after that Zoom takes her under his wing and seduces her with the "help and you'll never have to suffer again blah blah blah" which starts her down her dark path and her drive to never be "weak" again. 

bijoux

bijoux

Who exactly is MG trying to fool with his don't go by series regular contracts trying to determine who makes it? KC, JH and RG have just signed theirs. He explicitly stated that WH and PB are staying as series regulars next year. EBR and DR? Bwahaha. Pull the other one. I'd be willing to put EK on the chopping block, but he's had publicity shots done in his suit during the hiatus. And I'm sure the CW would pay for that if he wasn't sticking around. ?

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Some media comments on MG's tweet of the "Black Canary Memorial Display" production art...

First Arrow Season 6 Concept Art Features Black Canary Memorial
By Matthew Erao June 23, 2017
http://screenrant.com/arrow-season-6-images-black-canary-memorial/

Quote

In a way, the new memorial is far more fitting. The original Black Canary was helpful to the city, but the statue seemed a bit much considering she was a vigilante, and a relatively new one. With Dinah wearing her own version of Black Canary’s costume, it’s a nice touch to put Laurel’s original one on display with the other mannequins in the lair. With Prometheus’ destruction of the former lair, however, this could also be our first glimpse of the new headquarters for the team.

Of course, Laurel may not be the only one who needs a memorial. Given the shocking finale of season 5, Oliver may have lost some more companions, either to death or something worse. Speedy’s costume still mingles with the other active heroes, so we could see the season open with Oliver gazing at a wall of discarded costumes for his dead and absent friends. Given how much more optimistic Oliver has been lately, here’s hoping that isn’t the case.

The other notable thing about bringing Laurel’s costume to the forefront is it leaves it open for someone else to don it. On the one hand, that could be Dinah. It could also be Black Siren, Laurel’s Earth Two doppelgänger. Both Dinah and Black Siren have been promoted to series regulars in Arrow season 6, so there’s a good chance that they’ll be back and vying for Star City’s Most Sonic Scream.

Arrow EP Teases Black Canary Memorial For Season 6
by Russ Burlingame | June 23, 2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/06/23/arrow-ep-teases-black-canary-memorial-for-season-6/

Quote

In a tweet, Guggenheim has revealed a new Black Canary memorial -- this time, the costume in a glass case, lit from the back, with an aesthetic that would feel very at home in Green Arrow's lair.

It also looks a lot like the case in which Batman kept Jason Todd's Robin costume in the Batcave for years after his death in the comics -- something we've seen homaged in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Edited by tv echo
insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

From the screenrant article linked above: 

Quote

it’s a nice touch to put Laurel’s original one on display with the other mannequins in the lair. With Prometheus’ destruction of the former lair, however, this could also be our first glimpse of the new headquarters for the team.

1) Wasn't Laurel's costume already on display with the others? Or did they move it by the end of last season and I forgot?

2) Wasn't the lair already basically fixed up by the time Oliver left for the island in 522? Did I forget something else? I didn't think the team needed a new base (other than for obvious reasons, like its location being the worst kept secret/its security being a joke). 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

1) Wasn't Laurel's costume already on display with the others? Or did they move it by the end of last season and I forgot?

No, it was still with the others. They're just moving it out of the way to make room for Wild Dog's and Dinah's, I guess.

Quote

2) Wasn't the lair already basically fixed up by the time Oliver left for the island in 522? Did I forget something else?

Yeah, it was already fixed up. They don't need a new base.

Edited by apinknightmare
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

It's interesting that MG mentioned The Walking Dead's finale cliffhanger from last year. TWD's Season 7 premiered last fall with high ratings as people tuned in to see who was bashed with Negan's bat. So it makes you wonder if MG copied TWD with the Arrow S5 finale cliffhanger as a blatant ploy to get higher ratings for the S6 premiere (not that ratings matter to him! (eyeroll)).  If that's the case, he should also remember that after TWD's premiere last fall, ratings quickly plummeted as viewers were turned off. This reply tweet also made me roll my eyes...

Edited by tv echo
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Still, all they did was put glass around it. Nothing else about it is new, we've seen it since season 4. 

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Well, if nothing else the costume on a mannequin is pretty appropriate for KC's mannequin like acting, so I give points for that. I keep thinking it should have crossed arms though for full effect.

What was her costume hanging on in s4 & 5?

leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

If it got special production art, considering it was already displayed in a glass box, it's probably for some storyline reason. 

Also, I wonder if Arrow has hit their floor with viewers or if there are people still hanging on by a thread ready to drop the show. Shouldn't it concern them that their first episode got the highest streaming views because that means people didn't follow up? 

Edited by leopardprint
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, leopardprint said:

If it got special production art, considering it was already displayed in a glass box, it's probably for some storyline reason. 

Yep. It's meant to have significance, which is annoying two years post-death after she got a separate memorial last premiere. I figured her outfit was hanging up and once there was a new canary they'd fold it up and put it away, not detach and cover with glass like it's a display at Graceland. She just...didn't do anything remotely deserving of all this memorializing. 

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Trisha

Trisha

(edited)
1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Shouldn't it concern them that their first episode got the highest streaming views because that means people didn't follow up? 

I'd also question the streaming views numbers. Yes, probably on the CW, but wouldn't that be because they were no longer on Hulu? I wonder if overall streaming views were the highest or is he just talking about CW site/app...

In any case, his reply is cringe-y. As was pointing out that there was an Easter egg in the finale that we all supposedly missed. (We didn't.)

Edited by Trisha
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lemotomato

lemotomato

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Also, I wonder if Arrow has hit their floor with viewers or if there are people still hanging on by a thread ready to drop the show. Shouldn't it concern them that their first episode got the highest streaming views because that means people didn't follow up? 

The EP interviews, promos, and season 5 as a whole have convinced me that they don't make any writing decisions based on ratings. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

6 hours ago, way2interested said:

I'm thinking the main reason for the display is they are afraid if they just ditch the costume (cause they need the space for existing characters) someone is going to freak out about dishonoring Laurel blah, blah, blah, so now they instead are going to get rid of it by 'moving it to a place of honor'.  That probably will never be seen again.      

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way2interested

way2interested

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm thinking the main reason for the display is they are afraid if they just ditch the costume (cause they need the space for existing characters) someone is going to freak out about dishonoring Laurel blah, blah, blah, so now they instead are going to get rid of it by 'moving it to a place of honor'.  That probably will never be seen again.      

That's my reasoning too, at least for the production reasons. Narratively, I'm thinking used in 601 to kick off Dinah and/or Black Siren for the season and then, like the statue, never seen again except to either be destroyed, like the statue, or officially used by Dinah in a later episode (or even at the end of 601).

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