Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Sunshine]

I thought that was a Fashion Magazine?

It is.  The reporter asked her about Team Arrow and BC.  He wanted to make sure he had the jacket hand-off right.

[writersblock51]

 

On topic, it sounds like 3.01 will be stunt heavy, which is a good thing. As much as I criticize, the stunt work is always on point.

I suspect this will be the case, too, though I'm at a loss as to what big stunt thing it could be.  Nothing jumps out at me from the vantage point of how S2 ended.

 

Stunt work always helps the show look good.

 

No clue what the heck KC is smoking, drinking or eating but her comments about being a part of TA could backfire.  The show is already on the DVR (not Live) for our household.  The more she talks about her part in S3, the more likely I am to give up completely before it even airs in Oct.

I should probably head over to the Bitterness thread now.........

[Starfish35]

http://m.deadline.com/2014/07/syfy-ascension-cast-andrea-roth-pj-boudousque/

Devon Aoki has landed a major recurring guest role on the hit CW drama Arrow from Warner Bros TV. Aoki will play Tatsu Yamashiro, a character that first appeared in the Green Arrow origin series graphic novels published by DC Comics. She is a Japanese martial arts expert who wields a deadly sword, a blade from which her codename Katana is derived. In Arrow, Tatsu will be one of Oliver’s mentors in the flashbacks, and a critical influence on his journey to eventually become The Arrow of present day. Aoki, repped by Schiffco, appeared in features including 2 Fast 2 Furious, Sin City, D.E.B.S. and War.

Why are quotes in giant text now? Or is it just appearing like that on phones?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

OMG Katana! She's awesome

[Orion]

Type looks normal here Starfish must just be phones. Although the banner at the top of the screen is moving for me so maybe the forum is having problems today?

 

Is it bad that I looked at that picture of that actress and my first thought was oh god Oliver will be cheating with her in the flashbacks.

[calliope1975]

Hmm...I like Devon Aoki. Mentor and/or love interest?

[Morrigan2575]

Mentor, IIRC, she's one of Oliver'a keepers in Hong Kong, along with her husband and child

Font looks weird on phone especially in quote box.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Thanks Orion. I only have access using my phone right now, so maybe that's it.

ETA: and now suddenly it's back to normal. Ok. :)

Edited July 1, 2014 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

So with the female handler is Katana..I'm guessing that means her husband (father of her child) isn't David Caine as people suspected.

Unless they give her a DC comic character husband I'm guessing hubby dies because of Oliver and he feels guilty. That would tie into the father aspect of Oliver's present day story. Do I join my kids life if I could die and leave him/her again?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

TVLine now reporting.

http://tvline.com/2014/07/01/arrow-season-3-spoilers-katana-devon-aoki/

Devon Aoki (Sin City) has been cast as Tatsu Yamashiro — aka Katana — a “deadly,” blade-wielding martial arts expert, our sister site Deadline reports. Aoki’s character will be seen in Hong Kong flashbacks and will play a “critical” role in Oliver’s journey to becoming the Arrow. It’s not yet known whether Tastu will also appear in present-day Starling City.

As TVLine previously reported, the Hong Kong flashbacks will feature several new recurring characters, including another mentor named Toshi and his wife.

This makes it sound like Tatsu is not the same character as Akiko, Toshi's wife.

[Morrigan2575]

TVLine now reporting.

http://tvline.com/2014/07/01/arrow-season-3-spoilers-katana-devon-aoki/

This makes it sound like Tatsu is not the same character as Akiko, Toshi's wife.

So they're saying it's not the same person because I just assumed it was dummy names. Edited July 1, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[writersblock51]

Ohhhhh, interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

thanks for the links.

 

Hong Kong just got more interesting, in my opinion.  I was iffy on how much of the 'flashbacks' I'd want to see but this helps.

 

Unfortunately, there's still the present day mess that I'm dreading. 

 

I keep looking for reasons to keep watching the show in S3.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just FYI, spoiler tags aren't necessary in this topic.

[Morrigan2575]

Hahaha...just asked the question in the mod thread about comic information in the spoiler thread.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

So I guess Oliver will be sleeping with both Katana and Waller in the flashbacks?

 

Katie Cassidy's interview just further confirms my belief that the EPs are committed to making Laurel the Black Canary.  They'll start by making Laurel an increasingly close ally and confidante of Oliver now that she knows he's the Arrow, slowly bringing her character front and center again.  

Edited July 2, 2014 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

Hmm...I like Devon Aoki. Mentor and/or love interest?

Probably both.  This is the CW so I don't see Oliver going long without one even if it is in flashbacks only.  Nor would I be surprised if she showed up in the present.

[dtissagirl]

I love Katana, but how bitter does it make me that my very first thought was, "oh, great, they're bringing in another Birds of Prey member for Oliver to sleep with". :/ The fact that he's been sleeping his way through the entire BoP line-up so far make me irrationally angry.

[Morrigan2575]

Why are people assuming Oliver is going to sleep with his friend/mentor's wife in the Hong Kong Flashbacks?  Or are we assuming that Akiko /= Tatsu?  

 

TOSHI | Majorly recurring in (at least) the Hong Kong flashbacks, Toshi (late 20s/early 30s) will serve as Oliver’s teacher and handler, and eventually become a friend. A well-trained operative, skilled in weaponry, combat and intelligence gathering, he is also a devoted father and husband.

 

AKIKO | Toshi’s wife is another of Oliver’s Hong Kong caretakers, and is herself highly skilled in martial arts.

 

It seems like it's the same character just a different name to hide the fact that it was Katana.  

[foreverevolving]

 

Katie Cassidy's interview just further confirms my belief that the EPs are committed to making Laurel the Black Canary.  They'll start by making Laurel an increasingly close ally and confidante of Oliver now that she knows he's the Arrow, slowly bringing her character front and center again.  

In all honesty, i believe nothing KC say. i have a feeling she's just as clueless or just in the dark about most things than we the fans are.

[Sunshine]

So I guess Oliver will be sleeping with both Katana and Waller in the flashbacks?

 

Katie Cassidy's interview just further confirms my belief that the EPs are committed to making Laurel the Black Canary.  They'll start by making Laurel an increasingly close ally and confidante of Oliver now that she knows he's the Arrow, slowly bringing her character front and center again.  

I think this is what they are doing too. I think the hallway scene in 2.14 Time of Death was supposed to kill the toxic relationship so they could build a new one from scratch.  One of the EPs said then that Laurel needed to heal not just from the Sarah/Oliver stuff but all the pre-island time.  Might explain why KC keeps saying it's Laurel & Oliver forever too.  I think if they can bring her front and center slowly as Oliver's confidante without too much backlash (actual viewer drop-off) we are going to see them trying to advance the true love story again.  For the time being I think they will explore Olicity from the standpoint of Oliver possibly being jealous of Daniel simply to move him off the "because of the life I lead" stance.  I don't know if they will actually ever go there.  Before Season 2 the EPs actually said they were going to TEASE Olicity the first half of the season and the end of the second half.  (I wish I could remember where I read that but I did.)  Although I wish it weren't so, I don't think the EPs have actually changed their story direction.  They have just made adjustments to accommodate Felicity's popularity as well as Team Arrow.

 

In the IGN interview, SA says Season 3 is going to focus on the "core elements".  What the viewers consider the core elements to be are not necessarily the same things the EPs do. 

[tv echo]

I really hope I'm wrong.  Picturing Laurel's smug bitchface in the new Arrowcave, smiling at Oliver and being dismissive of Felicity and Diggle... ugh, no.

 

I've put off buying the Season 1 and Season 2 DVDs until I see where the series is going...

Edited July 2, 2014 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

Why are people assuming Oliver is going to sleep with his friend/mentor's wife in the Hong Kong Flashbacks?  Or are we assuming that Akiko /= Tatsu?  

 

It seems like it's the same character just a different name to hide the fact that it was Katana.  

The TV Line description makes it sound like Katana is in addition to the mentor and his wife.

[dtissagirl]

Why are people assuming Oliver is going to sleep with his friend/mentor's wife in the Hong Kong Flashbacks?  Or are we assuming that Akiko /= Tatsu? 

 

TV Line has edited their article to confirm they're one and the same: http://tvline.com/2014/07/01/arrow-season-3-spoilers-katana-devon-aoki/

 

But I'm still afraid Oliver will end up sleeping with her, yeah.

 

For me there's also another thing pretty problematic in this whole story -- Katana's husband is but a blip in her story to become a hero, and here they're putting him front and center, and Katana is "the wife". Barf.

[KirkB]

Why are people assuming Oliver is going to sleep with his friend/mentor's wife in the Hong Kong Flashbacks?

 

Because he's Oliver.

Pre-island Oliver would have slept with a friend's wife in a heartbeat. The Hong Kong version of Oliver, still reeling from losing Shado and Sara and even Slade to a degree might not be looking but if a hot woman comes on to him (as I kind of assume she will) then he's not likely to be in a position to turn her down. Post-island Oliver probably wouldn't do anything like that but in flashbacks he's not there yet.

Edited July 2, 2014 by KirkB

[abhi]

I think Katana will be more prominent in Season 3 than her husband. I am sure we will be seeing her in the flashbacks as well as the present whereas Katana's husband dies in the comics so I don't think that character is going to survive the flashbacks.

 

So, the casting has been done for Katana's husband, Maseo Yamashiro

http://tvline.com/2014/07/02/arrow-season-3-karl-yune-cast-olivers-hong-kong-handler/

Edited July 2, 2014 by abhi

[tv echo]

So, the casting has been done for Katana's husband, Maseo Yamashiro

Looks like there'll be plenty of pretty people who can fight to watch in Season 3.  

 

If they keep casting real martial artists on the show, then it'll make KC's lack of real fighting ability (assuming she fights) and use of stunt doubles even more apparent.    

Edited July 2, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Because he's Oliver.

Pre-island Oliver would have slept with a friend's wife in a heartbeat. The Hong Kong version of Oliver, still reeling from losing Shado and Sara and even Slade to a degree might not be looking but if a hot woman comes on to him (as I kind of assume she will) then he's not likely to be in a position to turn her down. Post-island Oliver probably wouldn't do anything like that but in flashbacks he's not there yet.

 

Pre-Island Oliver totally would.  Post Island Oliver I don't think he would, although I guess that's questionable given the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy thing from S1.  Unless they deviate massively from Katana's comic book history, she loves her husband and children.  I sooner expect that Oliver would sleep with Waller than Katana.  

 

Granted we don't know much about Hong Kong (and I could be very naive) but I just don't see Oliver/Katana being possible in the flashbacks...maybe if/when she shows up in Starling City they have a relationship.  I just see it happening in the flashbacks with her being the wife of his friend and a mother...that would take your character to a very low level, not sure he could recover from that.  Of course MMV

Edited July 2, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

Granted we don't know much about Hong Kong (and I could be very naive) but I just don't see Oliver/Katana being possible in the flashbacks...maybe if/when she shows up in Starling City they have a relationship.  I just see it happening in the flashbacks with her being the wife of his friend and a mother...that would take your character to a very low level, not sure he could recover from that.  Of course MMV

 

I agree. Sleeping with a married person is low but sleeping with a married person with children is a whole other business. If they really want me to quit, that would be it for me.

[Sunshine]

Pre-Island Oliver totally would.  Post Island Oliver I don't think he would, although I guess that's questionable given the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy thing from S1.  Unless they deviate massively from Katana's comic book history, she loves her husband and children.  I sooner expect that Oliver would sleep with Waller than Katana.  

 

Granted we don't know much about Hong Kong (and I could be very naive) but I just don't see Oliver/Katana being possible in the flashbacks...maybe if/when she shows up in Starling City they have a relationship.  I just see it happening in the flashbacks with her being the wife of his friend and a mother...that would take your character to a very low level, not sure he could recover from that.  Of course MMV

Yeah, but if husband and child should die in flashbacks grief sex could occur.  Also, Katana could go on a revenge killing spree if such a thing occurs which might contribute to Season 1 Oliver thinking eliminating people on The List was the way to go.  I guess I just wish present day Oliver would keep his pants zipped for a while.

 

I guess another option would be for Oliver to see that his friend has a wife and child so possibly he could too.  Might explain the reasoning regarding Sarah some. Katana sounds more than capable of taking care of herself physically.   

Edited July 2, 2014 by Sunshine

[statsgirl]

 

I guess another option would be for Oliver to see that his friend has a wife and child so possibly he could too

If the point of the characters is 1) grief sex with an attractive woman or 2) seeing someone can have both wife and children and still be a fighter, I vote for the latter, especially since the description reads "Maseo Yamashiro, who will be introduced in flashbacks as Oliver’s handler. Over time, he also will evolve into a teacher and a friend who helps Oliver step ever closer to becoming the superhero he is today."  That sounds like he'll be in the show for a while. 

 

Yes, Oliver, you can have a wife, especially one who is able to fight alongside you, although if Oliver grows increasingly unhuman in Hong Kong, I don't know how much he'll be able to help.

Edited July 2, 2014 by statsgirl

[BunsenBurner]

He mentioned Hong Kong, Amanda Waller and having a history. He also mentioned paying off Fryers benefactor from Season 1 which is funny because I don't remember seeing that on-screen and he spoke about it like it had already occurred. Hong Kong is supposed to be pretty nasty.

Regarding the team -He and Laurel would have a to reconcile her knowledge since she is now in on the secret. There was nothing specific about her being on the team. Season 3 would focus on the core elements but nothing about what those elements are.

He heard Season 3 was going to start off with a bang. (My interpretation, Seth and/or Roy/Arsenal. Colton Haynes in one of his European interviews alluded to something (no specifics) happening with his character in the Season Premiere. Oliver discovering Malcolm is alive and Thea is with him could start the season off on a bang too I guess.)

Basically he said nothing.

I believe that Amanda Waller wanted payment from Oliver for destroying Fryers and all his soldiers. IMO her failure to bring down the Ferris airplane and therefore the destruction of the Chinese economy was a huge embarrassment to her. I think we will see her place all the burden of repayment on Oliver because she believes that Sarah and Slade are dead. She will do everything in her power to destroy him and his humanity because he embarrassed her and she cannot forgive that a stupid rich kid could accomplish the ruination of her mission and her reputation. Edited July 2, 2014 by BunsenBurner

[Starfish35]

What's interesting to me is that they're bringing on another Birds of Pry character (if I'm reading the Wikipedia entry on Katana correctly-not a comics expert here). So that lends a slight bit of weight to the rumors of a Birds of Prey spinoff still being considered. But on the other hand, I can't imagine them doing a BoP spinoff with Laurel. I don't know to think.

[Morrigan2575]

If they really do a BoP spin-off my guess would be Sara, Helena, Katana, someone new and maybe Felicity.

[Starfish35]

I would be shocked if they put Felicity in a spinoff. I don't think they're dumb enough to remove Arrow's (likely) most popular character. And while I can see Sara in a spinoff, how would they get around Laurel as Black Canary? Would Sara take some other identity?

And now that I'm thinking about it, how exactly are they going to explain Laurel taking the Canary name with Sara still alive? "The city needed a Canary and you weren't here anymore, so I pretended to be you"?

[catrox14]

@Starfish35. I can't upvote your comment because it's much too close to reality and I might hate you a little bit for putting that out:(

Edited July 2, 2014 by catrox14

[Starfish35]

LOL sorry. :)

[shadow2008]

And now that I'm thinking about it, how exactly are they going to explain Laurel taking the Canary name with Sara still alive? "The city needed a Canary and you weren't here anymore, so I pretended to be you"?

 

Well, if the writers have Sara train Laurel, there would eventually come a time when Laurel has to come up with her own superhero identity. Sara could then give Laurel her blessings to take on the Canary moniker because she (Laurel) is a better person than she (Sara) could ever be and that it makes her more worthy of carrying on the Canary legacy. (gulp)

Edited July 2, 2014 by shadow2008

[KirkB]

Given Laurel as she has been presented on the show I still can't quite buy her going by Canary, Black or otherwise. Canary is her little sister's cute nickname. If she is going to be a vigilante like Oliver and Sara I think she would want a more majestic name, one that makes her sound more important, like Eagle or Hawk.

Edited July 2, 2014 by KirkB

[apinknightmare]

 

And now that I'm thinking about it, how exactly are they going to explain Laurel taking the Canary name with Sara still alive? "The city needed a Canary and you weren't here anymore, so I pretended to be you"?

 

Plus, Sara *is* Canary with the LoA. So, are there going to be two? This is why I think they'll start off by making Laurel another hero (like Manhunter) to test the waters, and then if/when they decide to make Laurel the Black Canary, then they'll kill Sara off.

[KirkB]

Hey, if Laurel does take the name Canary and Nyssa finds out, she could tell her father and Ra's could send two people to Starling. One to keep Oliver busy and the other to deal with Laurel. Though, knowing Ra's, the second person would be Sara.

[strikera0]

Plus, Sara *is* Canary with the LoA. So, are there going to be two? This is why I think they'll start off by making Laurel another hero (like Manhunter) to test the waters, and then if/when they decide to make Laurel the Black Canary, then they'll kill Sara off.

 

There are several different canaries in the comic books (e.g. Black Canary, White Canary, Jade Canary), but I wouldn't be shocked if the writers have Laurel start out as Manhunter before they ultimately transition her into the Black Canary role upon Sara's passing a season or two from now.

[apinknightmare]

 

There are several different canaries in the comic books (e.g. Black Canary, White Canary, Jade Canary)

 

Yeah, that's true. My denial has blocked it out. :)

[Starfish35]

But Jade Canary is Lady Shiva, isn't she? Did anyone else ever use Jade Canary? And White Canary is a villain from what I understand.

[formerlyfreedom]

We're getting a little bit off topic, discussing the possibility of a BoP spinoff. If there's any desire to continue that conversation (at least, until we hear anything differently), would you please take it over to Hopes and Fears? You can use spoiler tags to hide names of characters that are being announced, like Katana. Thanks much!

[strikera0]

I haven't thought about this before, but maybe after rejoining the League, Sara will have to repeat the introductory process and choose a new name for herself...

 

But Jade Canary is Lady Shiva, isn't she? Did anyone else ever use Jade Canary? And White Canary is a villain from what I understand.

 

To my knowledge, Lady Shiva is the only one who has ever used the Jade Canary title. White Canary is a villain but the character is so minor that the writers could probably tweak her anyway they want. What's interesting is that Jade Canary and White Canary are stronger martial artists than Black Canary in the comics because that's also true for Sara compared to Laurel. I think Lady Shiva even trained Black Canary for a little while

Edited July 3, 2014 by strikera0

[HighwayFlower]

I think the fact that Caity Lotz will not be at SD comicon is a bad sign for Sara.

[KirkB]

Maybe, but it could just be because Caity was busy or something.

[apinknightmare]

I think the fact that Caity Lotz will not be at SD comicon is a bad sign for Sara.

She's listed in the official S3 summary though, so it can't be that bad. Maybe she *is* a special guest. She's not technically a regular yet, is she?

[Sunshine]

She's listed in the official S3 summary though, so it can't be that bad. Maybe she *is* a special guest. She's not technically a regular yet, is she?

No.  Unless she is training Laurel I am not sure how they would go about inserting her in the story on a regular basis.  I would think Sarah, Laurel and Oliver working together would cause more problems for the writers unless they are tossing Felicity and Diggle under the bus. Not to mention who is going to accept KC as Canary if CL is on screen full time?   If she is simply recurring I would think from a budget standpoint she would be left as a guest star.  Didn't someone say you get paid as a regular even if you aren't in the episode? 

 

Also,  the official S3 summary is where the story is at the end of S2. It is more an introduction than "this is where we are going".  I do expect the international assassin will show up in S3 though. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by Sunshine

[apinknightmare]

No. Unless she is training Laurel I am not sure how they would go about inserting her in the story on a regular basis.

As a member of the League of Assassins? I assumed that's why they specifically mentioned her as an international assassin in the summary. She's the link between the LoA and Starling. I didn't think she'd be back in the Arrow cave.