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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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I'll be shocked if she's not a regular next season, frankly, especially if Willa Holland leaves.   But no, it hasn't officially been announced.  And Curtis isn't going anywhere.  WD....I could see that one going either way. 

Edited by Starfish35
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1 minute ago, way2interested said:

If anything, I'm actually surprised they didn't announce RG as a series regular for s6 after the Wild Dog-centric episode. Not saying they won't at some point, but I would have thought that would have been a good time to announce it afterwords. 

EBR was announced in February, Colton in March and Echo in April (of their respective years).  I imagine announcements will come soon, if they are coming at all (sadly, probable).

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I feel like WD as a regular in S6 has been inevitable since the moment we had WM (right?) answer a Q about Diggle by talking about WD. 

If we get the WD we saw in 510, even 511, I wouldn't hate it. But I'd still rather they ship off the newbies to protect other cities at the end of the season. 

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Curtis will probably stay since they've already given Echo a regular spot. 

I have heard rumours that they signed Juliana for limited episodes this season on the premise that if audiences respond well to her she'll be made a regular next season but I don't know the validity of that but it sounds reasonable. Hopefully it's the Paul Katie and Willa version of regular where some episodes she'll just disappear or only have C plot storylines. Haha.

Also if the rumour is true I wonder how they measure response to a character. Social media? Reviewers? Focus groups? I think she's been recieved well enough on social media and in reviews in the sense that she's not loathed/hated even though she has not been the breakout star either like a Felicity or a Cisco. From Twitter episode commentary and the reviews I've read I'd say they enjoy her but are ambivalent about her place on the show.

As for Wild Dog I'm not sure about him. The writers really seem to love him and they've spent time giving him a flash back backstory and of all the newbies he seems the most developed and integrated into the show. But hes had the worst response from social media at least. So I'm curious.

Edited by LeighAn
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Another thing is that last season Echo got a much much better response then Juliana or Wild Dog dude -dont know his name- are getting this season. Even though Curtis isn't well loved this season people loved him last season. Which might explain why the writers went into this season so gung ho about newbies joining the team. 

So the differences in responses makes me infinitesimally hopeful that we won't get WD and BC staying next season. But I'm also not holding my breath.

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It would be useless of them to bring in a new Black Canary just to not put her to full use so even though they want to keep the audience "guessing" about her suiting up and joining full time. She will suit up and go by BC and she will be a series regular next season. Her episode count that she is contracted for will probably be at least half the season with her showing up in at least 18/23 episodes if I had to guess.

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I honestly don't see how they can make them regulars beyond 14 episodes. Especially if Barrowman might be returning. 

I could honestly see BC taking Artemis under her wing and pop up from time to time.  (Especially since they giving the new BC scene after what seems a checklist, bo-staff, training with Diggle, giving her a Sin like character to team up wouldnt surprise me). 

Edited by Velocity23
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3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I think the response so far to Dinah has been better than the response to WD.  That's NOT to say that it's been uniformly positive, but it also hasn't, so far, been strongly negative.  

Seems mostly ambivalent to Me, she's there and most reviewers seem confused as to why they bothered with another BC. 

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I honestly don't see how they can make them regulars beyond 14 episodes. Especially if Barrowman might be returning. 

I could honestly see BC taking Artemis under her wing and pop up from time to time. 

I've been hoping she gets turned into a floater, 3 or so episodes per show but, alas I think Arrow is stuck with her.

If I had my way, Curtis would be gone, Dinah would be a floater and Rene would get a 14-18 episode contract For Arrow. Keep Thea for the rest of the show, even if it's in a reduced capacity because I think the show/Oliver needs that relationship. However, if Willa's contract reduction is due to BTS I will have to accept that she may be gone after S5.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Also, I know people here do not want to hear this, but they are not going to have just one female regular in the cast.  If WH is out (and yes, I know we don't know that yet), then they will add another female regular, and right now the most likely candidate is JH.

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7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I think the response so far to Dinah has been better than the response to WD.  That's NOT to say that it's been uniformly positive, but it also hasn't, so far, been strongly negative.  

I'd call it a "she's just there" response.  I think she's gotten points for tough girl lines and action scenes but I've yet to see any real investment or fandom developing around her. I don't even think I've seen as much frat boy she's hot responses. I've seen some but not to the extent I'd thought she get. And the reviewers seem to be talking a lot about why the show even needs another Canary. 

Whether that's enough to get her a full on regular contract I guess we will see.

Edited by LeighAn
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7 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I honestly don't see how they can make them regulars beyond 14 episodes. Especially if Barrowman might be returning. 

Is there talk about him returning in a larger capacity next season?

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2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Also, I know people here do not want to hear this, but they are not going to have just one female regular in the cast.  If WH is out (and yes, I know we don't know that yet), then they will add another female regular, and right now the most likely candidate is JH.

They might split the time so they have WH for an amount of episodes and JH for an amount of episodes. I honestly feel like all the newbies might get lower episode numbers with their contract. 

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1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Also, I know people here do not want to hear this, but they are not going to have just one female regular in the cast.  If WH is out (and yes, I know we don't know that yet), then they will add another female regular, and right now the most likely candidate is JH.

Oh I agree. Best case scenario might be to hope WH isn't leaving after this season and is still going to be a regular in S6 and if we can't get rid of a BC for good, JH just stays in a recurring role. Unfortunately? I'm feeling pessimistic about S6 regulars. 

And if Curtis is staying, I hope we get more of the Curtis from S4 and not what we've seen this season. 

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Just now, bijoux said:

Is there talk about him returning in a larger capacity next season?

Barrowman talking he is back for the last part of the season. I dont think he is gonna be used on LOT beyond s2. And Merlyn and RF are not getting killed off on LOT when they are the main villains for Flash and Arrow. 

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6 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Also, I know people here do not want to hear this, but they are not going to have just one female regular in the cast.  If WH is out (and yes, I know we don't know that yet), then they will add another female regular, and right now the most likely candidate is JH.

IF (and that's a big IF) WH is out, then yes I expect JH is in. The thing is we have no idea what WHs contract is. Did they resign her to a multi year 14 episode contract? Did they lock her in for 3 years planning to get through S7? Did they resign her for a 1 year contract? 

Without having any idea what her new contract (and yes, I'm assuming it's new since she's had way more episodes in the past). I have no real clue as to what her future might be.  WH might be gone or they might be very happy with keeping WH in a reduced capacity.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

The most response she got was the chatter around chemistry with Diggle. 

That still makes me giggle. Especially if there is some greater (conspiracy) plan to switch up romantic relationships from Olicity to GA/BC haha. 

Its like season 1 redux when everyone was seeing more chemistry between Willa/Stephen then Stephen/Katie haha.

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I too think that we're stuck with Curtis, Wild Dog and Tinah through to next season.  The EPs can't seem to come up with a decent storyline for Thea that doesn't involve putting her life at risk and having her brother save her. I can't imagine that WH is happy with her limited role on Arrow.  She deserves a better gig.

FYI: This weekend I talked about Arrow with a close friend, who I would classify as part of the 'general audience' viewership. She's watched every season but usually not live; she'll record and watch stored episodes when she gets a chance. (She now watches Lethal Weapon live.) In between episodes, she pays no attention whatsoever to Arrow and doesn't read any Arrow news or spoilers. She's also never read the comics.  She doesn't ship anyone, not even Oliver & Felicity.

I found her input interesting - she's actually enjoying this season of Arrow, although she didn't like the way the team split up at the end of last season and the beginning of this season. She thinks the show is better now that Diggle is back with the team. She likes Dinah because she's "so much better than Laurel" and doesn't see anything romantic in her interactions with Oliver. She liked Rory and is 'meh' on Wild Dog.

Also - and this comment surprised me (since I never said it to her) - she can't see the show getting rid of Felicity because "Felicity is the heart of the team" and Curtis just "doesn't bring the same level that Felicity does." So even someone who never reads articles, fan forums or social media posts about Arrow recognizes the importance of Felicity to the show.

Edited by tv echo
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On 2/18/2017 at 9:54 AM, strikera0 said:

Yeah, the Pilgrims story was hella lame. Would it have been so hard to reveal that Dinah was a hyperactive child and her mom decided to enroll her in a martial arts school when she was 5-years-old to keep her busy?

 

On 2/18/2017 at 10:05 AM, statsgirl said:

I love that idea.  It's realistic, because hyperactive kids do benefit from martial arts, and it explains why she's so good at it without the five boxing lessons equivalent.

In future episodes, we learn that:

  • Tinah went undercover with a criminal gang that was really into archery, so she became an expert archer.
  • Tinah went undercover with a criminal gang that was really into flying, so she became an expert pilot.
  • And so on.

Really, it's an all-purpose device for whatever expertise the writers want her to possess.

Edited by tv echo
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26 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Barrowman talking he is back for the last part of the season. I dont think he is gonna be used on LOT beyond s2. And Merlyn and RF are not getting killed off on LOT when they are the main villains for Flash and Arrow. 

I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse here, but how does him coming back to Arrow towards the end of this season influence the newbies' contracts for next season? Are you assuming that they'll have him more present in S6 of Arrow, since he won't be of use on LOT past this year? I'd say the producers' infatuation with Barrowman speaks in favor of that. On the other hand, this year is supposed to bring closure to the five (ten) year plot he put into motion so it would make equal sense for this to be the year they get rid of him.

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52 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

EBR was announced in February, Colton in March and Echo in April (of their respective years).  I imagine announcements will come soon, if they are coming at all (sadly, probable).

I was just still thinking about them getting their announcements around "centric" episodes as well. EK was announced after 417(Curtis' intro to the team), EBR and MB were announced around 114(flashback centric episode with Oliver and Slade and Felicity's intro to the team, and CH was announced near 118 (IIRC, I'm not actually sure, but if so, it was a kick start to Roy's intro to the team).

Just trying to figure out a pattern to the announcements, but it might just be coincidence.

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On 2/18/2017 at 7:54 AM, strikera0 said:

Yeah, the Pilgrims story was hella lame. Would it have been so hard to reveal that Dinah was a hyperactive child and her mom decided to enroll her in a martial arts school when she was 5-years-old to keep her busy?

 

On 2/18/2017 at 8:05 AM, statsgirl said:

 love that idea.  It's realistic, because hyperactive kids do benefit from martial arts, and it explains why she's so good at it without the five boxing lessons equivalent.

I didn't watch 5.13 so I'm only going off what's been said here, but I totally agree.  I'm disappointed that they seem to be trying to go the Sara-clone route with her fighting skills rather than making her her own person.  Having her learn martial arts as a child would have been a good way to start.  

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3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse here, but how does him coming back to Arrow towards the end of this season influence the newbies' contracts for next season? Are you assuming that they'll have him more present in S6 of Arrow, since he won't be of use on LOT past this year? I'd say the producers' infatuation with Barrowman speaks in favor of that. On the other hand, this year is supposed to bring closure to the five (ten) year plot he put into motion so it would make equal sense for this to be the year they get rid of him.

If that was the case they would have used him more in s5. I just think they wanted to keep him but reduced the cost. So he doesn't commit to another project full time. 

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Just remember that they can and will go back to the drawing board and rewrite a script while they are filming. They have done it, remember? Felicity was only supposed to be in 103, but they had to write her into 104 while filming....

MG said they are usually filming one, prepping the next ep, and still writing the one after that. So most likely, given they are about to start filming 519 on Tuesday, they are finishing 520 and starting 521.

If push come to shove, that is more than enough time for them fix some mistakes before any of these eps air. 

 

Its not not that they can't, or it would be too costly because at some cons I've been too, SA said its common  to go back film some things for most eps so I imagine reshoots are worked into budget( how much would it cost to reshoot a scene on a set they use most days anyway?) 

 The question is whether or not their hands are forced to do so whether they want to or not. 

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In  my mind a revolving cast not only makes sense, but actually honors the comics better. From my understanding a lot of these characters, even BC, was prone to a lot of coming and going. Also, wasn't the whole point of the noobs was so Oliver had help and didn't need to be out every night? So wouldn't it make sense that the team rotateed and had people that took nights off, or people that had solid smaller missions for intel? 

It seems awfully stupid for them to ALL be out on the street at the same time so much.

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I'd like Thea to stay but it seems more up to Willa Holland at this point than long term planning. As powerful as Dinah Drake is, she's better suited for recurring the way Sara briefly was because she may take over the whole Team.

Getting Zoe back is Wild Dog's Get Out of Arrow Free card and I really hope the show uses it.  The backstory episode was written partly after the election so maybe they looked at the response to him and prepped a way out, in the same way Rory said he'll be back after the Bratva episode.  Maybe it's just for the big season finale or maybe they're looking to see if they want him for next season..

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26 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Getting Zoe back is Wild Dog's Get Out of Arrow Free card and I really hope the show uses it. 

Yeah, I could see them doing this really easily.  That's why I'm not as convinced as others that he's going to be around next season.  I could see it going either way at this point.

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Getting Zoe back would also be a good way to show that Oliver has made a good impact on people. Rene got sober because he wanted to help him, and threw helping Oliver he was able to heal and get to a place that allows him to be a good father again.

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I think Dinah is here to stay. She perfectly serves her purpose. It doesn't matter if she is not overly popular, just that she isn't hated.

Dinah has already split that 'vocal minority' in half. I saw people ranting about Tina do an abrupt 180, just hearing that she was Dinah.

The fans left raging were the LL stans, and they almost compleatly lost their comic canon fanboy platform of support.

Ironically enough as someone who has never liked LL, I do think the switching of the BC was done in an aweful way, sliding out one female character to slot in another is gross.

Has anyone else noticed that Arrow is getting quite the reputation for it's poor writing of female characters?

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I think the only woman they have ever  done a sucessful job writing was Felicity, but now they made her an inconsistent hypocritical mess to the story as well. I loved FS til bmd stuff, for me it all went down hill from there for her.

Edited by LadyChaos
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WM said Oliver and Thea have a really great scene coming up.  It's one of her favorites.  She also likened Thea being in a similar place to where Moira was at right before she died but for different reasons.  Before they got in the limo in 2.20 is when Moira told Oliver she knew about him being the Arrow and that she was proud of him.  She was also getting ready to tell them the truth about Malcolm being alive when the limo was rammed which led to the Slade and choice confrontation.  

I think the Oliver/Thea scene is probably going to be along the lines of him being a good mayor and that Moira would be proud.  Thea could be getting ready to tell Oliver the truth about Susan when something happens to her. Or she could be confronting Susan when something happens.  There are photos of a wrecked limo that started showing up around 5.15.  In 5.15 Vigilante attacks Oliver as Mayor.  I guess I'm wondering if Thea was in the limo.  WM does say in her word salad that things get dicey for Thea.  The whole thing could happen with Thea being shown getting into the limo in 5.14.  In 5.15 Oliver finds out and anything about Thea is just exposition to others.    

Does Vigilante attack Oliver as mayor because of something Prometheus does?  At the end of 5.14 (I think) we're supposed to see how Prometheus was putting pieces in play in 5A.  When Chase shows up in 5.03 he has just taken over as District Attorney and he has a prior experience with Oliver Queen over a girl.  Reporter shows up in 5.03 to get a big story on Oliver Queen.  (It could be something as simple as someone suggesting there is a story there.)  Thea shuts her down.  Then she starts hitting on Oliver in 5.05 courtesy of Human Target.  Maybe the DA and Reporter are both unwitting pawns in Prometheus' game?    

Prometheus doesn't want Oliver dead.  He just wants his life ruined.      

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Question: the board that Prometheus had the team's photos on in 509 - was it one of those you could flip over? I don't remember. But maybe if it is, Prometheus flips it over and we see his plan? Maybe he's talking to someone else and that's how we find out who he is? Could be the end of 514?

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Getting Zoe back would also be a good way to show that Oliver has made a good impact on people. Rene got sober because he wanted to help him, and threw helping Oliver he was able to heal and get to a place that allows him to be a good father again.

Maybe Thea leaves to meet with daddy dearest, to tell him ' I still hate you for all eternity, and I want you to die a death of a thousand fiery suns. But it's Wednesday so could you fix my problem with Ollie...' and then she asks him for dirt on Susan

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I don't think that getting Zoe back would indicate anything one way or the other. Having a normal life while being a vigilante has been a recurring theme throughout the course of the past couple of years, with a few people learning lessons about it (Diggle, Felicity) - and Oliver's still trying to get there. He could just as easily get his daughter back and leave her with a sitter, leave her with someone he has an offscreen relationship with, or hell - leave her alone, I guess - if that's what they wanted to do.

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2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't think that getting Zoe back would indicate anything one way or the other. 

I agree I don't think it indicates a specific path. They could have Rene exit stage left or they can use it to further develop the character.

In other news, I've decided to just wait and see what they've set up with Susan through 515. I just can't be bothered speculating on so little information.

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19 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

WM said Oliver and Thea have a really great scene coming up.  It's one of her favorites.  She also likened Thea being in a similar place to where Moira was at right before she died but for different reasons.  Before they got in the limo in 2.20 is when Moira told Oliver she knew about him being the Arrow and that she was proud of him.  She was also getting ready to tell them the truth about Malcolm being alive when the limo was rammed which led to the Slade and choice confrontation.  

I think the Oliver/Thea scene is probably going to be along the lines of him being a good mayor and that Moira would be proud.  Thea could be getting ready to tell Oliver the truth about Susan when something happens to her. Or she could be confronting Susan when something happens.  There are photos of a wrecked limo that started showing up around 5.15.  In 5.15 Vigilante attacks Oliver as Mayor.  I guess I'm wondering if Thea was in the limo.  WM does say in her word salad that things get dicey for Thea.  The whole thing could happen with Thea being shown getting into the limo in 5.14.  In 5.15 Oliver finds out and anything about Thea is just exposition to others.    

She still hasn't had her annual near death experience, so why not?

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3 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

I found her input interesting - she's actually enjoying this season of Arrow,

Many general viewers might agree with her. When i watch a show only to kill some time i dont expect much for continuity i just want to be entertainted . I feel like a large part of the viewership of shows like arrow ,flash and LoT just want to kill some time and adding many characters,each having small filler episode arcs,while putting plenty of "badass" stunts and a bunch of "cool" lines for every character to deliver is enough for viewers to be entertained in arrow type of shows who are also CW shows. On the contrary,non stop melodrama and conflicts between characters irritate them, especially when they are written so badly.

That being said,a part of the viewers also cares about characters,which is why many of them bother and keep watching cw shows anyway(their storylines are predictable at best )so not honoring those dynamics,ruining continuity and repeating the same tropes again and again will lead them to easily forget to tune in or even bother to check after a small hiatus because they dont invest anymore. In a way theres also a part of the viewership that wont tune in just to see the fancy stunts of the week. Thats the difference between the arrow viewership pre season 5 and the arrow viewership now. There was a steady loyal viewership for two years in a row(season 3 and vast majority of season 4) and this seasons it seems like the show lacks faithful viewership. Proof is the fact that demo has clearly dropped instantly after the christmas hiatus(which didnt happen either in s3 or s4) even though it ended on such a big cliffhanger and even though it was reviewed by some critics as one of the best  Arrow episodes. Arrow could have had the SPN type of viewership,steady loyal viewers and small drop from season to season but it really seems that the passionate,loyal fans are not loyal anymore. That always harms cw shows considering how much they need the internet buzz.

Edited by theOAfc
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No one other than Diggle has a normal life while on Team Arrow, and Diggle can only do it because he's got Lyla and she's got ARGUS nannies on hand.  It could go either way, Rene could get Zoe back and leave or  decide his mother/sister/the foster family can give Zoe a better life and stay on the Team. 

I think it will be either Rene or Tinah who stays.  It could be both but there are more popular characters to keep on than one who is marginally popular as well as one who is generally considered the worst of Team II.  5x13 was supposed to be the episode that made everyone sympathetic to Rene but it didn't work for me.

18 hours ago, finnaire said:

In 5.05 Oliver and Thea meet Susan again when she’s with the city councilman and still nothing untoward happens. It isn’t until later that Thea tells Oliver that Susan is poison. Unfortunately, she’s telling it to the Human Target and Oliver misses out on that exchange.  So, although Thea continues to be negative about Susan in future episodes, I do see why Oliver doesn’t actually understand the underlying vitriol she has. I think he does just think Thea dislikes Susan because of the negative reporting.  And, I think he thinks it was deserved and so doesn’t hold it against her.

I do think he’s still a dumbass for dating a reporter in the general scheme, but, on rewatch, I don’t think he’s an idiot for not mistrusting her based on their interactions.  If that makes any sense.

Finally, also on rewatch:  1) There's no way that is a coverup of the actress’ tattoo or that the shot was accidental; 2) The guy she is paying for intel is not just a PI;  3) It is that guy who identifies Christopher Chance as the Human Target and they are both familiar with who/what he is; 4) Since she only learned about Oliver’s Russian connection at that point, why was she already investigating him?

I have a hard time believing that covered-up tattoo meant nothing.  It was tweeted out by a TVLine columnist.  Why would she tweet out that out unless she wasn't told to?

It's hard, but I do believe that HT is even more of a moron than Oliver if Thea told him what Susan had done and he still told Oliver to date her. But I have to put Thea in the moron group too if she knows HT was pretending to be Oliver and doesn't check that the real Oliver knows what Susan did to her.  And why doesn't Oliver ask Thea exactly why she's so opposed to Susan before "getting serious" with her?  All three of them are idiots.

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Also, I know people here do not want to hear this, but they are not going to have just one female regular in the cast.  If WH is out (and yes, I know we don't know that yet), then they will add another female regular, and right now the most likely candidate is JH.

It could be worse.  Susan could be the one staying.

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5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

It's hard, but I do believe that HT is even more of a moron than Oliver if Thea told him what Susan had done and he still told Oliver to date her. But I have to put Thea in the moron group too if she knows HT was pretending to be Oliver and doesn't check that the real Oliver knows what Susan did to her.  And why doesn't Oliver ask Thea exactly why she's so opposed to Susan before "getting serious" with her?  All three of them are idiots.

It could be worse.  Susan could be the one staying.

Did Thea know, I thought they intentionally kept her in the dark to get a real reaction from her.  

Also for all we know HT is working with Prometheus or Susan....or he just meant to use it as a way to break to Oliver that Felicity was seeing Malone, so he should go have a one night stand with the reporter to get over it.

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7 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah, I could see them doing this really easily.  That's why I'm not as convinced as others that he's going to be around next season.  I could see it going either way at this point.

WM commented in her interview after Rene's episode that they weren't planning more flashbacks for him this year but it could happen in season 6.  I don't think he's going anywhere.  :(

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Just now, BkWurm1 said:

WM commented in her interview after Rene's episode that they weren't planning more flashbacks for him this year but it could happen in season 6.  I don't think he's going anywhere.  :(

Well, they also used to talk about exploring Sara's time with the LoA, before she took a header off the roof. 

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17 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I'm surprised it took this long for her to have an interview though I suspect they will have an official red carpet for once she goes "full" Canary and joins full time. But I gotta respect her for her answers about the fandom.

I think this might be something that her people arranged and not anything official. Unless Suzanne Gomez is booking people on rando blogs now-which she could be, I guess. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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