Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

If Ghost Fox Goddess is a nod to Ghost Fox Killer, I would like Felicity to wear Oliver's green hood to a clandestine meeting at least once.

I feel like KH has been in Van a lot. Three episodes maybe?

[ComicFan777]

Since the Ghost Fox Killer targeted the Triad and had spies infiltrate the gang, it would be cool if that's a hint as to where Felicity's dark arc is going...she blackmails China White to help her take down the Triad.

[Belinea]

Is it just me or do the episode descriptions make the episodes sound really dull lately?

[tv echo]

Is 513 the first time that they've centered an episode around a character (complete with flashbacks) who's a recurring character (Wild Dog), and not a series regular?

Edited February 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Every description that doesn't feature Felicity is boring. I'm bias.

This is Sin-Eater right? I'm not getting a connection.

I also don't get why Lance feels guilty about the breakout because of DD. What am I missing?

So Oliver can't go out as GA because of the ACU....removing Oliver from the equation...sounds like a BC set up.

31 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

Since the Ghost Fox Killer targeted the Triad and had spies infiltrate the gang, it would be cool if that's a hint as to where Felicity's dark arc is going...she blackmails China White to help her take down the Triad.

Or to use the Triad against Prometheus.

Oliver and Felicity are coming at Prometheus from two different directions with two different methods, I wonder if Prometheus is going to figure that out and try to pit them against each other.

[ComicFan777]

I'd say 5.11 counts as an episode centered around a recurring character complete with flashbacks - recruitment of Tina complete with her origin flashback.

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Is 513 the first time that they've centered an episode around a character (complete with flashbacks) who's a recurring character (Wild Dog), and not a series regular?

There was the episode with Deadshot flashbacks. He wasn't even recurring.

[way2interested]

Just now, Chaser said:

So Oliver can't go out as GA because of the ACU....removing Oliver from the equation...sounds like a BC set up.

Yeah, it kind of struck me as that too. The police being against Oliver as GA might become a thing for the "Oliver as mayor" plot, meanwhile someone has to help take down the girl group. Plus, with this episode being written by women, directed by a woman, having the VOTW be 3 past female villains, I would think they would want to complete the circle and have some female hero help take them down (although I will give them bonus points if Thea hoods up to help protect Lance and if Felicity teams up with Tinah or something while she's dealing with her own plot).

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Is 513 the first time that they've centered an episode around a character (complete with flashbacks) who's a recurring character (Wild Dog), and not a series regular?

I believe League of Assassins (205) was the first Flashback episode for a non series regular. I think it was also the first time we had a flashback episode focused on someone not named Oliver Queen.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I also don't get why Lance feels guilty about the breakout because of DD. What am I missing?

He put Lady Cop in prison for working with the bad guys.  Then he turns around and works with the bad guys so she feels he was a hypocrite, stops feeling guilty for what she did wrong and  justifies breaking out of jail. Yeah, it doesn't make all that much sense but at least it gives him a bit of a storyline.

[Chaser]

Ah okay. It's a reach since they made a big deal about DD threatening LL but it's Arrowsense. 

[Belinea]

So the Green Arrow is supposed to face the legal system because of Billy, but what about all the other people he might have killed this week? Did he not kill people just last episode? It is strange that Billy was never important in life to any of the viewers but now shapes so many storylines for the characters. You'd think he would have been more prominently featured if many thing go back to his death. 

[Cleanqueen]

Since the ACU reports to Oliver Queen then can't he call off the arrest of the Green Arrow?

[insomniadreams88]

21 minutes ago, Belinea said:

It is strange that Billy was never important in life to any of the viewers but now shapes so many storylines for the characters. You'd think he would have been more prominently featured if many thing go back to his death. 

I wonder if this is why Felicity's dealing with her grief through 520 - they're going to find ways to bring up Billy's death every few episodes. 

Imagine when they fill in Dinah on what happened. Imagine if Dinah's all, "I lost my boyfriend too." Then Felicity has to awkwardly go, "Uh, yeah, Detective Malone, right, my boyf-[choking noises] Nope, still can't call him that."

Edited February 3, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[Belinea]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Imagine if Dinah's all, "I lost my boyfriend too. Uh, yeah, Detective Malone, right, my boyf-[choking noises]

They can both call them lovers just to show their unbelievable importance.

[Sunshine]

I know what WM said but is she actually dealing with her grief or just playing with Helix in 5.20?  The interview was released before a return to Ghost Fox Goddess was put in play. 

[insomniadreams88]

9 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I know what WM said but is she actually dealing with her grief or just playing with Helix in 5.20?  The interview was released before a return to Ghost Fox Goddess was put in play. 

True. I wonder if we'd get different interviews now about Felicity's storyline.

[dtissagirl]

37 minutes ago, Belinea said:

So the Green Arrow is supposed to face the legal system because of Billy, but what about all the other people he might have killed this week? Did he not kill people just last episode? It is strange that Billy was never important in life to any of the viewers but now shapes so many storylines for the characters. You'd think he would have been more prominently featured if many thing go back to his death. 

I think the insane troll logic they're using here is -- if the character has a name, then it's a kill that has consequences. Unnamed characters can die by the dozen, no problem, nobody will care.

[tv echo]

When they were shooting 513, Tyler Ritter tweeted a pic of his SCPD Detective Malone business card. Maybe we'll find out that Felicity has been carrying around Billy's business card - just like Oliver carried around Laurel's pic during his "island". ;)

Edited February 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Cleanqueen]

7 minutes ago, tv echo said:

When they were shooting 513, Tyler Ritter tweeted a pic of his SCPD Detective Malone business card. Maybe we'll find out that Felicity has been carrying around Billy's business card - just like Oliver carried around Laurel's pic during his "island". ;)

LMAO..she couldn't call him her boyfriend so in order to remember his name she needed his business card sort of like how Oliver needed to remember who Laurel was.

[statsgirl]

Quote

Maybe we'll find out that Felicity has been carrying around Billy's business card - just like Oliver carried around Laurel's pic during his "island". ;)

Then people can say Look, they're paralleling Oliver and Felicity's journeys to make them even more perfect for each other!

Edited February 3, 2017 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I think the insane troll logic they're using here is -- if the character has a name, then it's a kill that has consequences. Unnamed characters can die by the dozen, no problem, nobody will care.

That works, bc Oliver was going to kill all those unnamed Mirakuru guys in S2 by burying them under tons of concrete and he was pretty chill about it (and then later totally against killing them in a different way, bc this show is this show).

Also, LOL. Guggie really has some very strange ideas.

[insomniadreams88]

Question: Do you think they're going to catch Lance up on everything he missed while he was in rehab? Because I'd love to see that scene onscreen. "We fought aliens. Oliver killed Felicity's BF. Black Siren pretended to be your daughter. That's why her statue is gone. We recruited a new Black Canary and you'll never guess what her name is! Etc." 

[dtissagirl]

15 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

That works, bc Oliver was going to kill all those unnamed Mirakuru guys in S2 by burying them under tons of concrete and he was pretty chill about it (and then later totally against killing them in a different way, bc this show is this show).

Team Arrow exploded a whole bunch of unnamed Russian prison workers to save Lyla, nobody gave a fuck. Then a week later Oliver killing the Count was ~a big deal~. This has been one of the most consistent things Arrow's done in all these years: a kill is only relevant when the writing says so.

[Belinea]

22 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

We recruited a new Black Canary and you'll never guess what her name is

What? It's Dinah Drake! You recruited my ex-wife?! Since when does she like leather?

[SmallScreenDiva]

28 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

...a kill is only relevant when the writing says so.

Oliver killed Ra's no problem, no angst. Even went on a world tour with his girl. Killed Damien, suddenly it's "OMG, I'm a killer again!!! Waaaah!"

[insomniadreams88]

Can't blame Thea for not suiting up this season with the whole "Killing people? Eh" attitude that there seems to be. At least there's that.

Speaking of Thea, now that we know what's going to be going on with Felicity, Rory is pretty much definitely gone after 512 and Lance has been mentioned in two descriptions, she's the one I want some focus on ASAP. Although, I'm going to start to feel like if they do focus on her, it's going to be for a farewell storyline. 

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Oliver killed Ra's no problem, no angst. Even went on a world tour with his girl. Killed Damien, suddenly it's "OMG, I'm a killer again!!! Waaaah!"

If you really think about it, it's the creepiest shit ever (other than the murder-boner post-Billy-killing, anyway). "THE PEOPLE I KILL ONLY COUNT IF I KNOW THEIR NAMES. [Except sometimes they still don't.]"

[calliope1975]

So is Tinah going to choose to be BC, or is everyone just going to be like, well, you'll be BC whether you like it or not? What if she always wanted to be called something else and wear sensible, flexible outerwear, and Oliver's all, lol no, you are BC and you will wear this black leather outfit we've had sitting around because I have an inexplicable fetish for a woman I couldn't stand when she was alive but have now martyred in her death. 

Why's Tinah agreeing to sign up with these people?

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

So is Tinah going to choose to be BC, or is everyone just going to be like, well, you'll be BC whether you like it or not? What if she always wanted to be called something else and wear sensible, flexible outerwear, and Oliver's all, lol no, you are BC and you will wear this black leather outfit we've had sitting around because I have an inexplicable fetish for a woman I couldn't stand when she was alive but have now martyred in her death. 

Why's Tinah agreeing to sign up with these people?

Well look at it this way..it would be even weirder if he asked her to wear a leather corset, fishnets and heels, LOL

[tennisgurl]

45 minutes ago, Belinea said:

What? It's Dinah Drake! You recruited my ex-wife?! Since when does she like leather?

"Every time I brought up leather, she said she wasn't into that..."

[Angel12d]

Do you think 512 will have a scene where Tina is introduced to Diggle and Felicity? Or is that asking too much? LOL.

[insomniadreams88]

50 minutes ago, Belinea said:

What? It's Dinah Drake! You recruited my ex-wife?! Since when does she like leather?

"Damnit, Oliver! You better not sleep with my ex-wife next! Both my daughters weren't enough?"

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

Do you think 512 will have a scene where Tina is introduced to Diggle and Felicity? Or is that asking too much? LOL.

I'm assuming there will be a small time jump and that will have happened offscreen. 

Because otherwise, what, only really a couple of hours or so could have passed between 511 and 512 to see that meeting, and is Diggle really going to be flying off to another country hours/a day after he gets out of prison? 

[BkWurm1]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Because otherwise, what, only really a couple of hours or so could have passed between 511 and 512 to see that meeting, and is Diggle really going to be flying off to another country hours/a day after he gets out of prison?

Yeah, wouldn't most official consider someone out on bail rushing off to Russian a problem?  Are people out on bail even allowed to leave the country?

[Chaser]

19 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

So is Tinah going to choose to be BC, or is everyone just going to be like, well, you'll be BC whether you like it or not? What if she always wanted to be called something else and wear sensible, flexible outerwear, and Oliver's all, lol no, you are BC and you will wear this black leather outfit we've had sitting around because I have an inexplicable fetish for a woman I couldn't stand when she was alive but have now martyred in her death. 

Why's Tinah agreeing to sign up with these people?

Did they mention BC or becoming BC to Tinah in 5x11? I haven't seen it anywhere.

How manipulative. Join our Team. Save yourself. Find Purpose. Yeah it's really about finding a clone of a dead teammate, ex girlfriend. Surprise!

[statsgirl]

Why would she agree to take on the public name of a woman she didn't know and who is known by the whole city to be dead?  Maybe she'll insist on being called Blackest Canary.

23 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, wouldn't most official consider someone out on bail rushing off to Russian a problem?  Are people out on bail even allowed to leave the country?

I thought they weren't allowed to leave the state.

[Trisha]

27 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, wouldn't most official consider someone out on bail rushing off to Russian a problem?  Are people out on bail even allowed to leave the country?

I'm assuming if the evidence Felicity leaked is strong enough, all charges will be dropped.

[Sunshine]

Adrian Chase said dismissing the charges was just a formality. Until then he was being released on bond.

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Why would she agree to take on the public name of a woman she didn't know and who is known by the whole city to be dead?  Maybe she'll insist on being called Blackest Canary.

I thought they weren't allowed to leave the state.

Human Target maybe takes on Diggle's identity in prison?

[finnaire]

52 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I'm assuming there will be a small time jump and that will have happened offscreen. 

Because otherwise, what, only really a couple of hours or so could have passed between 511 and 512 to see that meeting, and is Diggle really going to be flying off to another country hours/a day after he gets out of prison? 

Yeah, about those time jumps- is Billy still in the fridge? Because nobody's mentioned the funeral since the party (snerk) and Felicity seemed mighty happy to be hacking.

[Cleanqueen]

I think there was a time jump between 5x10-5x11. I think several weeks. 

[Belinea]

37 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Felicity seemed mighty happy to be hacking.

Maybe that is what they meant by 'spring in her step' ;-)

Edited February 3, 2017 by Belinea

[insomniadreams88]

36 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Felicity seemed mighty happy to be hacking.

Yeah, interesting that the happiest we've seen Felicity in a long time is doing what's kickstarting her "darker" arc. 

[Cleanqueen]

I think we all know now that the darker part means her doing morally questionable things. I don't think it'll be her being angsty and mopey, they leave that for Oliver.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I think we all know now that the darker part means her doing morally questionable things. I don't think it'll be her being angsty and mopey, they leave that for Oliver.

Yep. I just think it's interesting considering WM's interviews about Billy putting a "spring in Felicity's step" and her being happy with him, things we never saw onscreen. 

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. I just think it's interesting considering WM's interviews about Billy putting a "spring in Felicity's step" and her being happy with him, things we never saw onscreen. 

Yeah, because with the hacking, it was noticeably there.  

[way2interested]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. I just think it's interesting considering WM's interviews about Billy putting a "spring in Felicity's step" and her being happy with him, things we never saw onscreen. 

MG said that, not WM, yet ironically WM is the one saying that Billy's death is following Felicity in 5b to 520 whereas MG and BFS are the ones who are saying it's a mix of everything Felicity has been through, I believe.

[lemotomato]

WM over sells and equivocates in her interviews all the time. Thanks to @tv echo's spoiler archive, here's what WM has said vs what actually happened on the show so far:

• WM: "There will be more standalone episodes this season. Um, and I think that we'll be - we are looking to kind of go deeper into the bench of villains from the DC Universe, and again... go back to our roots in the way that we had - more season 1." 

What actually happened as of 511: No villains from the DC Universe featured except for Prometheus.

• On how Flashpoint will affect Arrow, WM: "Yeah, I can tell you that it's going to have - we are going to, you know, we're going to honor it and see what kind of effect it'll have on our characters.” “It will have a big impact on the characters that it does have an impact on." “And there will be some characters that are…more influenced or more impacted by it than others. And I definitely would say, you know, Felicity is going to be - she's going to be carrying something in regard to that through the season.”

What actually happened: throwaway mention that Baby Sara is now Baby JJ. And both mentions happened during Arrow/Flash crossovers. (Flash 302 and 308) No effect on Felicity as of 511.

• On Felicity, WM: "She's really, in the beginning of the season, grappling with the fallout from what happened at Havenrock and that will be a huge focus for her in the first nine [episodes].”” For the first half of the season, Felicity is really going to be focused on Haven Rock and what she did in last season”

What actually happened: Havenrock only got mentioned in 503 and 504.

• On what ways we might see KC appear in Arrow outside of just flashbacks, WM: " You will see in the episodes where she appears - Episode 510 definitely, our midseason premiere.  People can leave and get killed and you can still find new and crazy ways for them to come back. I can definitely tell you that there's a way we're going to bring her back and she's going to be alive and well. And Flashpoint might have a little bit to do with that”

What actually happened: She wasn’t LL alive and well, and Flashpoint had nothing to do with it

• On whether a Black Canary might suit up as soon as by S5’s end, WM: “There’s definitely a possibility... Look, it’s hard to do a show about Green Arrow without having a Black Canary. I don’t know if it will happen this season or when, but… we are going to be true to origins in the DC universe, and she’s always going to be there.”

What actually happened: It’s happening now.

In summary: don't put any stock in what WM says.

Edited February 3, 2017 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

WM gives terrible interviews but I love how that paragraph about BC reads: Look...we have to do this..we can't get rid of her. 

[insomniadreams88]

WM definitely oversold Flashpoint's effect on Arrow. If someone didn't watch The Flash, they'd have no idea that Felicity knew about Diggle's kid. I'm assuming she was supposed to be carrying that "secret," but that was so weak. It was never even mentioned that she knew, right?