Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

It seems the point of this is to have a Black Canary rather than to honour Laurel Lance (cue the destruction of her statue)  They spent this season on WWLD but now they've brought KC back as the Black Siren to clear the decks, or rather the waterfront, so that our palate is all cleansed for Tina as the new BC.

It's not nice but comic heritage is what DC appears to care about and in truth, Laurel Lance had the name but not much else in common with Dinah Lance from the comic books.

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I wonder if Lance will be back in the SCPD by the end of the season.

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Maybe it depends if Chase sticks around and Oliver continues as mayor.  If neither of those things happen, then they'll need Lance as the police liaison.  If it's covered by Chase or Mayor Handsome, then I have no clue what they'll do with him.

Edited January 19, 2017 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

  On 1/19/2017 at 4:19 AM, statsgirl said:

 

It seems the point of this is to have a Black Canary rather than to honour Laurel Lance (cue the destruction of her statue)  They spent this season on WWLD but now they've brought KC back as the Black Siren to clear the decks, or rather the waterfront, so that our palate is all cleansed for Tina as the new BC.

 

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But I guess the part that doesn't make sense to me is what the Black Siren has to do with Laurel and cleansing the palate?  How is lionizing Laurel ALL SEASON LONG paving the way for a nuCanary?   Instead of emphasizing the need for another woman in black, it feels like they keep harping on the loss of Laurel.  Black Siren turning up and reminding everyone how much they miss Laurel seems to me to make them more inclined to think no one can replace Laurel, not more.  And blowing up her statue is just a kindness to art lovers of the world.  It does nothing to change the part where it's on her tombstone that the Black Canary is dead. 

I just don't see how any of this makes a new mask seem like a logical next step.  

[wonderwall]

I know this is a little sad... But Laurel drinking a glass of water instead of champagne is incredibly impressive lmao

[bijoux]

Well, I mean, she supposedly came back from the dead. They could have sprung for some cider.

I actually like what was shown of WD in the loft. It acknowledges and emphasizes the fact that that it's odd to have the newbies there.

[Cleanqueen]

  On 1/19/2017 at 5:37 AM, wonderwall said:

I know this is a little sad... But Laurel drinking a glass of water instead of champagne is incredibly impressive lmao

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They look so good toasting people from the dead. I have this feeling by this time, they don't trust her, including Oliver. It was odd that the trailer focused on the wine glasses which we knew about it being used for DNA.

 

With every episode, I keep praying for the loft to get blown up. It's not enough to get it sanitized but I want it blown up.

Also I think the new Iris and Barry loft on the flash will be their version of the Arrow loft. Once Barry and Iris break up, everyone will have "back from the dead" or in their case "which timeline is it"  parties

[bijoux]

  On 1/19/2017 at 2:41 PM, Cleanqueen said:

They look so good toasting people from the dead. 

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It's actually sad how happy it makes me to know that they'll have at least three scenes together - this, BS's attack in the lair, and that stunt in the field. I mean, they can turn out to be completely meaningless, but at this point, I'm happy.

[Cleanqueen]

  On 1/19/2017 at 2:47 PM, bijoux said:

It's actually sad how happy it makes me to know that they'll have at least three scenes together - this, BS's attack in the lair, and that stunt in the field. I mean, they can turn out to be completely meaningless, but at this point, I'm happy.

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yeah I mean following the death of Malone they could've just had them be apart or distant but nope we're having the most olicity filled episode in a while.

[Trisha]

  On 1/19/2017 at 2:47 PM, bijoux said:

It's actually sad how happy it makes me to know that they'll have at least three scenes together - this, BS's attack in the lair, and that stunt in the field. I mean, they can turn out to be completely meaningless, but at this point, I'm happy.

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And if the Reddit spoiler synopsis turns out to be correct, they'll also have a conversation about E2 counterparts and how circumstances can influence the path a person takes (and maybe even another one when Oliver declares at the end that he's going to honor LL's last request and find a new BC). 

[Chaser]

I get it:

1-5: Sprinkle Olicity

6-9: Felicity/Mayo gets focus.

9: End Felicity's Temp

10 - 12: Sprinkle Olicity

12 - 15/16: Oliver/Reporter.

End Oliver's Temp.

Olicity Reunion.

[wonderwall]

  On 1/19/2017 at 4:41 PM, Chaser said:

I get it:

1-5: Sprinkle Olicity

6-9: Felicity/Mayo gets focus.

9: End Felicity's Temp

10 - 12: Sprinkle Olicity

12 - 15/16: Oliver/Reporter.

End Oliver's Temp.

Olicity Reunion.

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I see you took a scientific approach to this ;)

[calliope1975]

So when can I resume viewing - 17 - 18? 

Shockingly enough, I'm actually looking forward to this next episode. I hope it's finally the end of LL and/or Earth Whatever LL. There might even be some good character moments. Look at me being all optimistic. :D

[wonderwall]

  On 1/19/2017 at 5:31 PM, calliope1975 said:

Shockingly enough, I'm actually looking forward to this next episode.

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Because Felicity is going to punch Laurel right??? :)

Also you don't want to miss Felicity's dark arc! I suggest tuning into episode 12,14 specifically :) Also it does seem to be that Havenrock will be brought up in episode 11 if that interview is to be believed so...

[Starfish35]

I'm going to give 10 and 11 a try.  The promo has me curious how this all plays out, and I am curious about Tina.  After that is TBD, but if they're serious about giving Felicity a substantial arc of her own (color me skeptical after last year), I may stick around for that. 

But crossing my fingers that this is KC's last Arrow appearance for a very long time. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

  On 1/19/2017 at 7:51 PM, wonderwall said:

Because Felicity is going to punch Laurel right??? :)

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COME. ON!!!!

[bijoux]

It looks like the loft is really getting a work out this year. Apparently, there's an upcoming fight in 416 taking place there. It's getting to be worse than Laurel's apartment in this regard.

[Chaser]

Chances are Felicity is involved so Yay!

....I wonder if Lance is to since he was looking beat up.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Chaser

[Guest]

Who is that supposed to be? Or are they just stand-ins for scene set up or whatever? Although why is one wearing a mask?

That was a lot of questions, haha.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Guest

[bijoux]

It says previz, so I think it's safe to bet it's just stand-ins and they're setting up the scene.

[Starfish35]

  On 1/19/2017 at 9:02 PM, bijoux said:

It says previz, so I think it's safe to bet it's just stand-ins and they're setting up the scene.

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Thank you.  I was wondering what that meant but didn't want to ask in case it was something really obvious and I was just being dense. Lol!

[bijoux]

I had to google it as well, so no worries. ;)

[Guest]

I didn't even notice the caption! Doh.

[Cleanqueen]

so does Felicity give back the loft to Oliver? otherwise i assume she's involved if it does indeed happen in the loft.

[statsgirl]

Maybe Oliver is having Susan move in with him and so Felicity offers him the loft because it's so much bigger and brighter than Susan's place.  I kid, I hope.

Would they have stopped hiding from Prometheus by then?  Because if Oliver is so worried about Thea in 5x09 that he wants her to stay in the bunker to be safe, how come Felicity is still living with all those windows in 5x16?

[insomniadreams88]

  On 1/19/2017 at 9:46 PM, statsgirl said:

Would they have stopped hiding from Prometheus by then?  Because if Oliver is so worried about Thea in 5x09 that he wants her to stay in the bunker to be safe, how come Felicity is still living with all those windows in 5x16?

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Well, they seemed to have forgotten about the threat of Prometheus by episode's end. Maybe Prometheus left a note - "I'll give you the next X weeks off since I just made you kill an innocent detective" - at the scene of Billy's death that we didn't see. 

If Thea was still in the bunker, why wasn't she alerted when someone (a.k.a. Black Siren) entered? Shouldn't she have realized "Laurel" was there before Oliver walked in at the end? (I know they wanted it to just be Oliver and "Laurel" there, but still.) Why did they all let Felicity go home alone? Leaving her to grieve alone aside, Prometheus could have easily decided to go after her while Oliver was at Susan's, Diggle was being arrested, Paul was leaving Curtis and the others were MIA. Even if you want to argue Prometheus didn't want to go after her then so she'd suffer since her BF was just killed, it was still a risk.

[Cleanqueen]

Prometheus wanted to give them a little break, after all he made Oliver kill Felicity's useless boyfriend. That was enough pain for one night lol.

[spartan]

  On 1/19/2017 at 5:31 PM, calliope1975 said:

So when can I resume viewing - 17 - 18? 

Shockingly enough, I'm actually looking forward to this next episode. I hope it's finally the end of LL and/or Earth Whatever LL. There might even be some good character moments. Look at me being all optimistic. :D

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Do not expect to say goodbye to black siren, berlanti has made it clear that katie cassidy will be back during the last episode of this seasons. Arrow includes.

Tina new canary, ok, excited for a love story between oliver and Tina

[wonderwall]

  On 1/20/2017 at 12:10 AM, spartan said:

Do not expect to say goodbye to black siren, berlanti has made it clear that katie cassidy will be back during the last episode of this seasons. Arrow includes.

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When? 

[insomniadreams88]

  On 1/20/2017 at 12:10 AM, spartan said:

Do not expect to say goodbye to black siren, berlanti has made it clear that katie cassidy will be back during the last episode of this seasons. Arrow includes.

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Why? I think of Black Siren as a Flash character. (Same with any other Earth versions of the Arrow characters because the multiple Earths has been almost entirely a Flash thing.) I don't see why we'd see BS again after 510 because she'll have served her purpose once the statue is destroyed and Tina is introduced. I do think it's likely we'll see BS on The Flash - maybe even in the final scene of 310, depending on how they're going to handle her "escape" from STAR Labs - but that's it. 

[AyChihuahua]

  On 1/20/2017 at 12:10 AM, spartan said:

Do not expect to say goodbye to black siren, berlanti has made it clear that katie cassidy will be back during the last episode of this seasons. Arrow includes.

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Link/citation?

[tv echo]

  On 1/20/2017 at 12:42 PM, tv echo said:

I think the problem is that the head EPs are all so busy with multiple projects that they just don't have the time to devote much thought or attention to Arrow. So they fall back on pre-planned story arcs or comics-based stories.

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The above is what I posted in the Heartaches, etc. thread (in response to discussion about how they used plots originally planned for O/L for O/F in previous seasons). But that made me think of this...

If indeed Tina becomes the New Black Canary, then it'll be interesting to see how her introduction to Oliver compares to how BC meets GA in the new GA Rebirth comics. That'll maybe provide a clue as to where Arrow is thinking of going in the future.

Tina debuts in 511, titled "Second Chances." In the GA Rebirth comics, there's apparently this dialogue:

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“The city got a second chance. I got a second chance. So do you,” Queen tells Black Canary in what you can consider their “first date.” She replies: “Here’s to second chances."

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https://www.inverse.com/article/26336-green-arrow-black-canary-shipping-dc-romance-rebirth

Coincidence?

Edited January 20, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

  On 1/17/2017 at 5:58 PM, kariyaki said:

That is indeed perplexing, I don't know why it doesn't show a newer post. Might try heading over to the Bugs section and asking in there.

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Thanks. As suggested, I reported this problem in the Bugs forum, and it now looks like it was corrected (fingers crossed):
http://forums.previously.tv/topic/52748-fixed-last-post-date-is-correct-in-topic-list-view/

Edited January 20, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

  On 1/20/2017 at 12:47 PM, tv echo said:

The above is what I posted in the Heartaches, etc. thread (in response to discussion about how they used plots originally planned for O/L for O/F in previous seasons). But that made me think of this...

If indeed Tina becomes the New Black Canary, then it'll be interesting to see how her introduction to Oliver compares to how BC meets GA in the new GA Rebirth comics. That'll maybe provide a clue as to where Arrow might go in the future.

Tina debuts in 511, titled "Second Chances." In the GA Rebirth comics, there's apparently this dialogue:

https://www.inverse.com/article/26336-green-arrow-black-canary-shipping-dc-romance-rebirth

Coincidence?

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Or seeing as how Tina is the C plot of the episode description the title could just as easily be something relating to Talia and Russia or Diggle or Felicity who are the promoted A and B plot. 

Or it's a combination of all three plots and second chances refers also Tina becoming the second Black Canary (if you ignore the fact that Sara exists).

But until we see the episode play out the title of the episode having similarities to dialogue in the comics doesn't necessarily mean that the writers are doing a straight up adaption of the comics seeing as they have never really made the show all that similar to the comics in the first place. Even this season isn't all that close to comic canon.

Edited January 20, 2017 by LeighAn

[Morrigan2575]

Sooooooo Pike is Prometheus, right?

[Velocity23]

I have a hard time believing they will do anything romantic during 5x11 unless its sexy time with susan. 

[bijoux]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:12 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Sooooooo Pike is Prometheus, right?

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Even if he's not, I welcome him being more present, because that means the police, which is supposedly overrun with corruption, is present as well. Because dealing with that issue has been super lame so far this season. Step one: form a corruption fighting unit. Step two: Prometheus executes one unit member. Step three: Put Malone on the unit off screen. Step four: ..... Crickets.

[Chaser]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:12 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Sooooooo Pike is Prometheus, right?

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Let's see....S1 character who returns for S5 and starts getting screen time...yup. Pretty good chance. He also looks like he can pull it off.

I did a rewatch but I don't remember Pike too much. What was his deal?

I doubt they would name the episode after the C plot. Its probably a reference to the episode as a whole. And if it was a reference to a comic line, it could easily be an Easter egg.

[Morrigan2575]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:20 PM, Chaser said:

I did a rewatch but I don't remember Pike too much. What was his deal?

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He's pretty much been in the background, shows up from time to time each season and doesn't like The Arrow.

[bijoux]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:21 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

He's pretty much been in the background, shows up from time to time each season and doesn't like The Arrow.

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Or Lance, really.

[Morrigan2575]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:23 PM, bijoux said:

Or Lance, really.

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Yeah, he's a minor antagonist to both Arrow and Lance. He got a chunk of episodes in S2 mostly acting as the Police Antagonist while Lance was the Inside Man.

It's not perfect but, it's miles better than some random character we've never met before

[insomniadreams88]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:16 PM, bijoux said:

Even if he's not, I welcome him being more present, because that means the police, which is supposedly overrun with corruption, is present as well. Because dealing with that issue has been super lame so far this season. Step one: form a corruption fighting unit. Step two: Prometheus executes one unit member. Step three: Put Malone on the unit off screen. Step four: ..... Crickets.

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Yep. It's like as soon as they got rid of Church, they forgot corrupt cops existed. Has the ACU even been mentioned since Billy told Felicity he was joining? 

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:12 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Sooooooo Pike is Prometheus, right?

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I'd like that a whole lot more than what they tried to sell us in 509. 

[bijoux]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:27 PM, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. It's like as soon as they got rid of Church, they forgot corrupt cops existed. Has the ACU even been mentioned since Billy told Felicity he was joining? 

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Not that I can recall.

Really, I don't even need Pike to be the actual Prometheus - although I wouldn't mind it - I'd take him as Prometheus' inside man. 

[Sunshine]

I like the idea of Pike as Prometheus but does he fit the age profile?  Isn't Prometheus early 30s? AH is only 42 and could play younger.  If he's not Prometheus he could be the inside connection.

[way2interested]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:35 PM, bijoux said:

Really, I don't even need Pike to be the actual Prometheus - although I wouldn't mind it - I'd take him as Prometheus' inside man. 

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Same, plus we still need to find out how Prometheus got Oliver's old arrows supposedly from police evidence. Since he's been around since s1, seems like the right candidate who could have done it.

[bijoux]

And by the looks of it, possibly Oliver's old suit as well.

[insomniadreams88]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:38 PM, way2interested said:

Same, plus we still need to find out how Prometheus got Oliver's old arrows supposedly from police evidence.

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Yeah, they seemed to have dropped that the moment they figured that out too. It seemed like they were trying to set up Billy as possibly working for Prometheus with that and then... nothing. 

[Sunshine]

Another idea...With Rene's background could they perhaps be setting him up to join (go undercover) in the ACU?  Might explain his scenes with Lance.

[statsgirl]

Getting Oliver's old suit would explain why it's sometimes so hard to tell Oliver and Prometheus apart.

Second Chances may refer to linking the Bratva stories since it introduces Talia.  It could also refer to giving Tina a second chance to find Carlos or fight crime.

[bijoux]

  On 1/20/2017 at 2:43 PM, Sunshine said:

Another idea...With Rene's background could they perhaps be setting him up to join (go undercover) in the ACU?  Might explain his scenes with Lance.

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But he has military background, he wasn't on the police force, so it wouldn't make sense... Yeah, they might actually do it.

The ACU might actually be a good way to incorporate Tina. Although I don't think they should use her too much at first.

[Sunshine]

Rene transporting a prisoner in his care and beating him to earn a dishonorable discharge doesn't mean he was military police but it could.  It's also not unusual for former military to become police. Just speculating.  I guess we'll know soon.

[Cleanqueen]

Just listened to that interview with Natalie, I liked the host (Kyle Anderson) stating that he thought Emily was a wonderful actress and that he was excited for her dark arc but I guess Natalie didn't want to add that she agreed with his praise for Emily.

They also mentioned that there was a reason for having Diggle locked up again, I wonder if there is more to it than just having Felicity clear his charges. I would love for them to connect his arrest with Prometheus.