Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ComicFan777]

It's weird...
- Thea had a crush on Tommy who turns out to be her brother.
- Roy is kinda like Oliver.
- Wild Dog is supposedly like Oliver (I don't really get it though).
If Thea ends up with Wild Dog, are we supposed to conclude that Thea's type is her brother?...because that is icky.

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I am just curious how the EPs will react if people might hate on BC 3.0 too. What will be their reaction then? 

If Tina receives a less than enthusiastic reception, we'll get:

a) a snarky MG tweet about how people are watching the show wrong

b) a snarky MG tweet about shippers just being mad

c) an interview from WM saying that people have to wait until the end of the season to see the whole plan

d) BFS tweets explaining what they are actually doing with the character that didn't come across on screen

e) me crying because I still can't completely quit this mess 

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

It's weird...
- Thea had a crush on Tommy who turns out to be her brother.
- Roy is kinda like Oliver.
- Wild Dog is supposedly like Oliver (I don't really get it though).
If Thea ends up with Wild Dog, are we supposed to conclude that Thea's type is her brother?...because that is icky.

Dude, I've been there for years now.

[Mellowyellow]

When they have a scene together, the heart eyes etc are adorable. Then I run off and read fanfic and it kinda fuels me into shipping because fanfic Oliver (most of the time) is very good to Felicity. She's his world in fanfic.

I try not to get into the specifics of how actual cannon Oliver behaves because my poor little shipper heart can't cope with it! 

I think I'm kinda weary at the thought of being dragged along for another season with an Olicity bone thrown in here and there and the show pissing me off each week. Gawd this is depressing!

[insomniadreams88]

Crazy theory: The Rene/Lance scene coming up is going to be Lance hiring Rene as Oliver's security detail because, by 512, everyone's going to realize that having security willing to tell a reporter the mayor's whereabouts is a bad idea. And who better to have than someone who knows when/where Oliver's going to be sneaking off to? (The "interview" would just be for show - say, Rene walking into Lance's office at City Hall - but they'd have to talk about something, so cue Rene/Lance scene.) Of course, this means that the public is going to have to believe that Rene could protect Oliver, but we already known Star City residents aren't the smartest people. 

[Belinea]

Also because I seriously cannot remember: Where did Malcolm go off to? Not that I want him back but is he coming back?

[Cleanqueen]

26 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

It's weird...
- Thea had a crush on Tommy who turns out to be her brother.
- Roy is kinda like Oliver.
- Wild Dog is supposedly like Oliver (I don't really get it though).
If Thea ends up with Wild Dog, are we supposed to conclude that Thea's type is her brother?...because that is icky.

I don't think she will. Unless they changed their minds Rick was saying that WD had other people in mind when someone brought up the idea of him and Thea.

[statsgirl]

When last seen (on LoT), Malcolm was in 1930s Chicago working with DD and Reverse Flash to help Al Capone.

17 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Crazy theory: The Rene/Lance scene coming up is going to be Lance hiring Rene as Oliver's security detail because, by 512, everyone's going to realize that having security willing to tell a reporter the mayor's whereabouts is a bad idea.

But it's so romantic!  It proves she really really lurves him! 

Everyone working at City Hall is so stupid, nobody's going to care, it's Mayor Handsome.

Edited January 4, 2017 by statsgirl

[LeighAn]

I'm still not seeing how Tina has a connection with Oliver=Tina and Oliver are true love foreva. 

Evelyn Wild Dog and Rory all had/have a connection with Oliver and all of them have their own "Islands" of pain.

Until we have more to go on I just don't see the point in jumping to conclusions. It was a generic phrasing of words IMO and was left to the very end of the article. 

I mean if they were setting up a Oliver/Tina romance why not give them their own sales pitch article like they did Oliver/Susan the girl the show is actually selling as a love interest.

[lemotomato]

30 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm still not seeing how Tina has a connection with Oliver=Tina and Oliver are true love foreva. 

::cough::confirmation bias::cough::

And as @way2interested pointed out, the "will form a connection with Oliver" part was TVLine's phrasing, not a quote from WM.

[Trisha]

23 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I mean if they were setting up a Oliver/Tina romance why not give them their own sales pitch article like they did Oliver/Susan the girl the show is actually selling as a love interest.

Well to be fair, she didn't get sales pitch articles until after we met her, and they really didn't start selling her and Oliver together hard until recently. Mentioning Oliver's "connection" to Tina this early might be trying to prepare the audience and get them in the head space they want. 

I really have no idea which way it will go because the characterization this season is such a mess. I'm jealous of the people who seem so confident in their predictions (on both sides). Olicity could be on the road to reuniting ... or they may be over. The only thing I know is that I dismissed all the people earlier this season who were speculating about Felicity's BF lasting more than 3 eps and not being Flashpoint Barry, the reporter becoming a LI, Laurel being retconned, etc. So I'm trying to stay positive because I can't understand why a a show would capture magic in a bottle and then just throw it all away in a handful of episodes, but I'm also not wearing rose-colored glasses anymore. I'm just in wait-and-see mode, I guess. 

[LeighAn]

IIRC they were hinting at an Oliver/Susan flirt early on weren't they?

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I really have no idea which way it will go because the characterization this season is such a mess. I'm jealous of the people who seem so confident in their predictions (on both sides). Olicity could be on the road to reuniting ... or they may be over. The only thing I know is that I dismissed all the people earlier this season who were speculating about Felicity's BF lasting more than 3 eps and not being Flashpoint Barry, the reporter becoming a LI, Laurel being retconned, etc. So I'm trying to stay positive because I can't understand why a a show would capture magic in a bottle and then just throw it all away in a handful of episodes, but I'm also not wearing rose-colored glasses anymore. I'm just in wait-and-see mode, I guess. 

Looking back at 5A, I feel like what actually happened was something in between the worst-case scenarios and the optimistic predictions. Billy was not Flashpoint BF and didn't get dumped early, but he also didn't matter much to the storyline or Felicity. The LL retcon lasted about 2 episodes. Felicity's Havenrock storyline turned out not to be significant, but she's also had plenty of screentime (I remember there were fears that she wasn't on set because she was on vacation a lot, or something). Oliver and reporter didn't really happen until 507/509, and even then the worst we've seen so far is one onscreen kiss, not the sex scene predicted in 505, or 507, or 509. Oliver and Felicity didn't get back together in 505, but for all that they talked about moving on, they sure stared lovingly at each other a lot. 

So I mean... maybe watching with no expectations is the way to go, if possible.

[Trisha]

15 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

IIRC they were hinting at an Oliver/Susan flirt early on weren't they?

I *think* the first real hints of flirtation were during that set visit when SA said she wouldn't be the next Isobel, and by that point the viewers had already met her (and saw her digging up stuff about Oliver in Russia).  I might be wrong though. 

[Sunshine]

Seeing Laurel (?!) “is a very welcome surprise” for Oliver, says showrunner Wendy Mericle. “But there will be… whatever the reverse of a ‘silver lining’ is… when he finds out what’s really going on. It will have a lot of emotional resonance, particularly for him and Felicity.” On top of that is the “significant fallout” of Malone’s murder, a tragic accident that steers Felicity to “a darker place” as she sets her own sights on Prometheus. That, coupled with the question of the Big Bad’s identity, “is a gift that keeps on giving for the rest of the season,” says Mericle.

Oliver gets sad and decides to fulfill his promise to Laurel.  Felicity gets mad and targets Prometheus.   So, is Felicity's "darker place" arc going to last the rest of the season or is TVLine adding 2 +2  and coming up with 5?  I'm okay with it being all of 5B if her cohort aren't just random nobodies.  I just watched her with a random nobody in 5A. 

[Sunshine]

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I *think* the first real hints of flirtation were during that set visit when SA said she wouldn't be the next Isobel, and by that point the viewers had already met her (and saw her digging up stuff about Oliver in Russia).  I might be wrong though. 

When they were teasing the character originally she was a tough reporter but "oh wait till you see how she's won over."  

The first teases of Tina are tough cop who's anti-vigilante but "oh wait till you see how she's won over."

Trite rehash for both characters but if you watched S1-S2 it's easy to jump to conclusions if Oliver and an attractive female are involved.   

[Sunshine]

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

I'm still not seeing how Tina has a connection with Oliver=Tina and Oliver are true love foreva. 

Evelyn Wild Dog and Rory all had/have a connection with Oliver and all of them have their own "Islands" of pain.

Until we have more to go on I just don't see the point in jumping to conclusions. It was a generic phrasing of words IMO and was left to the very end of the article. 

I mean if they were setting up a Oliver/Tina romance why not give them their own sales pitch article like they did Oliver/Susan the girl the show is actually selling as a love interest.

It'll be interesting to see the pitch after 5.12.  If they go Tina/Oliver I wouldn't think they would try selling it until Susan serves her purpose in 5.12.  I also think they hope to make Tina more than just a love interest.  I want to like Tina but in order for that I need her established before she becomes anyone's love interest.  

[LeighAn]

Thing is I'm feeling fairly confident Tina is going to fail spectacularly whether she is the best thing since slice bread or not. She is already a controversial and I'd argued disliked character before she's appeared on the screen and I'm not seeing that changing once she actually is on air especially given all the newbies have been pretty much failure despite how hard the writers have tried selling them. I don't see Tina breaking the mould. 

And if the writers can't get the audience to buy in with her I don't see them being able to get the audience to buy in to a romantic relationship between her and Oliver. Especially given the flak and intense dislike they've gotten from the audience reception to Billy and Susan. 

[Trisha]

29 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So I mean... maybe watching with no expectations is the way to go, if possible.

But no expectations means no investment/interest. I loved this show for four years; I want to have expectations for it (not to be confused with viewer entitlement). Personally I think my way out of this is to stop reading ultra positive metas (my hopes were WAY too high for 5x05), while also trying not to expect the worst. I'm also really going to attempt to give Tina a chance - not just because this show could use another female character, but because I already feel bad for the actress. I hope she has a thick skin (or a good social media manager).

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

It'll be interesting to see the pitch after 5.12.  If they go Tina/Oliver I wouldn't think they would try selling it until Susan serves her purpose in 5.12.  I also think they hope to make Tina more than just a love interest.  I want to like Tina but in order for that I need her established before she becomes anyone's love interest.  

See, that's why this whole thing doesn't ring completely right to me. This stems on the idea that the audience might like Tina, and we won't even see her until they're filming 516. Even Sara and Ray were established before becoming LI, and Susan is clearly pretty short-term along with Malone so the audience reaction didn't even matter too much to an extent because by the time they get them, they've already planned beyond them. If she's for s6, fine I guess, but it's weird to write to something for the future that people may like or want in lieu of writing something that they have confirmation that at least a portion of their audience likes/wants.

[thegirlsleuth]

Unless the network gets some really bleak market research back, I don't think we're going to see Oliver and Felicity back this season.  I think that Susan was the transition girlfriend, and they will assess whether Oliver is transitioning to the new Black Canary or transitioning back to Felicity, but  outside of a possible season finale kiss, I don't think they will move forward with either romance until next season.  One thing I've had in the back of my mind was the comment Wendy made about season six being a soft reboot.  It may just mean getting rid of the flashbacks, but I do wonder if they will restructure for a more Justice League feel--they've certainly got the stable of masks in place.  If that does end up happening, I do think they are going full comic book and the odds of a Black Canary/Green Arrow romance will be much higher.

[LeighAn]

Wendy also said just recently that they have had already worked out a storyline for Olicity relationship in season 6.

[statsgirl]

They've got a stable of masks but a whole lot of audience rejection of them.  Maybe the reboot is in terms of Oliver finishing his Hero's Journey along with the flashbacks and give him a new purpose.

I don't understand why they would have a Black Canary/Green Arrow OTP for the show.  Olicity has won Ship of the  Year two years in a row, there is a whole lot of buzz for Felicity as a character, and the best reviews are always when the episodes are OTA heavy.  Why would they reject that for a BC/GA OTP with a character that hasn't even been introduced yet and when most of the audience couldn't care less about the comics?  Of course they might, but it would be incredibly stupid and whatever else GB is, he's not stupid about TV shows.

5.03 was just on and it ends with Thea promising Susan that if she stabs her in the back again like that, she'll be lucky if she still has a blog.   Oh, Thea, don't forget that promise!

I think Tina can become a good character but only if they don't have her sleep with Oliver.  Sara was well liked until the lunge.  Tyler Ritter knew that the person dating one half of the OTP isn't generally liked by viewers so he was careful in his tweets to emphasize the detective part of his role and not the Felicity's bf part.

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

 Felicity's Havenrock storyline turned out not to be significant, but she's also had plenty of screentime (I remember there were fears that she wasn't on set because she was on vacation a lot, or something). Oliver and reporter didn't really happen until 507/509, and even then the worst we've seen so far is one onscreen kiss, not the sex scene predicted in 505, or 507, or 509. Oliver and Felicity didn't get back together in 505, but for all that they talked about moving on, they sure stared lovingly at each other a lot.

She had screentime but it was all in aid of other people's storylines.  Mostly she was "Mom".

I can understand a decision to spend time introducing new characters in the first part of the season but I really hope it's true that there is a real storyline for Felicity, with proper time spent on it, for the second part of the season.

Edited January 5, 2017 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

I'm apathetic to optimistic about Arrow. I'm at the point where I generally just ignore the stuff I'm not a fan of and am cautiously optimistic about the stuff I want to see.

I still don't see Tina as a LI for Oliver. I don't believe the show cares about GA and BC. I'm curious about the character and hope she is a great addition. I still think Olicity will be together sooner than most think. Nothing that has come out has convinced me otherwise. I'm looking forward to Felicitys storyline and am hoping for some cool characters and her father to make an appearance.

As for the stuff I'm not a fan of.... whatever. I just don't care. There is no point in getting worked up over it. My Arrow viewing is very specific at the moment and I'm totally okay with that. 

Hopefully, I hear great things about 5b and I tune in full time again.

[LeighAn]

You also have to remember Olicity is WB/CW couple, they used them repeatedly to advertise the show and the show DVDs. So they see Olicity as a marketable commodity. They would likely have the market research that suggests to them Olicity is a marketable commodity.

So why would they then abandon that for a character and ship the audience hasn't even seen yet and who the audience is already ready to not embrace? Tina is not a comic canon character so it's not some desperate need to be canon or spin off a character into her own show or movie considering she's not a canon character. So that can't be the answer. 

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

The only thing I know is that I dismissed all the people earlier this season who were speculating about Felicity's BF lasting more than 3 eps and not being Flashpoint Barry, the reporter becoming a LI, Laurel being retconned, etc. 

So, me, then?

[thegirlsleuth]

14 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Wendy also said just recently that they have had already worked out a storyline for Olicity relationship in season 6.

I missed this interview.  Did she say it was positive?

I don't think they've 100 percent committed to abandoning Olicity, but they have certainly killed it off for the season. Honestly, at this point they don't even feel like friends.  When they discussed how in 5.10 Felicity will mourn for herself, Billy, and Oliver, I'm wondering if Felicity is going to give Oliver a speech about how she doesn't blame him, but she can't forget he killed her boyfriend.  I think they are willing to at least test whether the GA/BC relationship could be a go--and I do think it would be a slow build instead of a lunge--and if it doesn't work, back to Olicity. 

I don't mean to sound so pessimistic. I'm waiting to see what the fallout of Billy's death is next episode, but right now I put the odds of them reuniting at roughly 50/50.

[AyChihuahua]

53 minutes ago, way2interested said:

See, that's why this whole thing doesn't ring completely right to me. This stems on the idea that the audience might like Tina, and we won't even see her until they're filming 516. Even Sara and Ray were established before becoming LI, and Susan is clearly pretty short-term along with Malone so the audience reaction didn't even matter too much to an extent because by the time they get them, they've already planned beyond them. If she's for s6, fine I guess, but it's weird to write to something for the future that people may like or want in lieu of writing something that they have confirmation that at least a portion of their audience likes/wants.

I think they chem-tested/generally tested the shit out of her and they're fairly confident she'll be enjoyed by at least the non-comics dudebros they are courting. Plus I think the WB/DC demanded her.

I'd love someone to explain, in detail, why "obviously" they want to keep Olicity bc it's a goldmine. What does that actually mean, and for which contractual party, in which precise power position, is she a goldmine? If you mean ratings, that's just the CW at most, which fairly clearly ain't that concerned about ratings. I mean, they've killed Olicity since 415 so what exactly does "goldmine" entail? She's not in the comics. She has a Funko, which would be relatively minor licensing fees for...somebody. Exactly which party, with exactly which contractual power, makes exactly what power/revenue out of Olicity?

9 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I missed this interview.  Did she say it was positive?

I don't think they've 100 percent committed to abandoning Olicity, but they have certainly killed it off for the season. Honestly, at this point they don't even feel like friends.  When they discussed how in 5.10 Felicity will mourn for herself, Billy, and Oliver, I'm wondering if Felicity is going to give Oliver a speech about how she doesn't blame him, but she can't forget he killed her boyfriend.  I think they are willing to at least test whether the GA/BC relationship could be a go--and I do think it would be a slow build instead of a lunge--and if it doesn't work, back to Olicity. 

I don't mean to sound so pessimistic. I'm waiting to see what the fallout of Billy's death is next episode, but right now I put the odds of them reuniting at roughly 50/50.

No, she didn't. She did not say there would be positive Olicity happenings in S6. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[LeighAn]

It was in the Blastr interview. She was asked if she think the show is better off without Olicity and instead of saying yes totes better like the interviewer wanted (or yes totes better TinOliver foreva) she answered that Olicity are the Core Couple of the show and the writers get a lot of mileage out exploring different sides of their relationship and they are excited by where they are taking them in season 6.

ETA are "Chemtesting the hell out of Tina"

Except they didn't chem test her with Stephen Amell or at least we have no proof they did or didn't. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by LeighAn

[Chaser]

14 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I think they chem-tested/generally tested the shit out of her and they're fairly confident she'll be enjoyed by at least the non-comics dudebros they are courting. Plus I think the WB/DC demanded her.

I'd love someone to explain, in detail, why "obviously" they want to keep Olicity bc it's a goldmine. What does that actually mean, and for which contractual party, in which precise power position, is she a goldmine? If you mean ratings, that's just the CW at most, which fairly clearly ain't that concerned about ratings. I mean, they've killed Olicity since 415 so what exactly does "goldmine" entail? She's not in the comics. She has a Funko, which would be relatively minor licensing fees for...somebody. Exactly which party, with exactly which contractual power, makes exactly what power/revenue out of Olicity?

No, she didn't. She did not say there would be positive Olicity happenings in S6. 

I don't mean this in a snarky or disrespectful way, but why is so important for you to stress just how over you believe Olicity is? I get it isn't your thing anymore and I respect your view but at times it seems you take personal offense to anyone who does believe Olicity is still alive on Arrow.

[way2interested]

48 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I think they chem-tested/generally tested the shit out of her and they're fairly confident she'll be enjoyed by at least the non-comics dudebros they are courting. Plus I think the WB/DC demanded her.

At this point I really hope that there's some passive aggressive comment from someone that references DC demanding these things for s5 because it would actually explain everything to me.

However, chem-testing/focus grouping or whatever still kind of goes against basic consumer behavior logic. Business logic states that consumers/sellers inherently adhere to a sure thing rather taking a risk for a potential gain unless it's a gain of avoidance of a loss. The show trying to switch couples (a risk) wouldn't inherently make sense over a semi-sure thing (putting Olicty together) unless the loss (viewers? press? idk, but overall money in there somewhere) they were trying to avoid stems from very real and distinct possibilities they were considering taking otherwise (keeping Oliver single or even putting Olicity back together again). If the latter two decisions projected real losses for them, then taking a risk with someone new makes sense, otherwise, innately it doesn't. On the other side, consumers won't risk sure things (knowing how Olicity looks on-screen, whether one likes it or hates it) for potential gains (is Oliver and Tina the best couple ever? who knows?) unless the risk benefits avoiding a significant loss (Olicity or Oliver being single is the worst thing ever, I want anything else!), so throwing something new to established customers is also inherently going against consumer logic. 

Then again, this is just me trying to establish some logic where I don't have nearly all of the facts, plus the idea that Arrow has gone against what I think is common consumer logic before (ex: retaining customers>>>>>>gaining new customers, especially once you are established as a specific brand with certain expectations, but then again one could argue that Arrow has continuously been trying to re-brand itself every year, who knows, I don't know all of the facts). Plus, this is me putting waaaaay too much thought into it, but that's how my brain works.

Edited January 5, 2017 by way2interested

[Sunshine]

IIRC, Stephen said several times during the Turtles press tour that Oliver and Felicity aren't together in season 5.  

WM said in an earlier TV Line interview that Oliver and Felicity might not reconcile this year.  In the one regarding Susan, I think she rephrased that to "we always said Oliver and Felicity wouldn't get back together right away."  MG told jbuffyangel that Olicity shippers would have to be patient but that they would be rebuilding them.

If a rebuild is still the plan my guess would be it starts towards the end of season once Oliver realizes what Felicity has been up to and attempts to help her.  It could happen during hiatus or season 6 could be the actual rebuild.  

They haven't lied so far.  Just a lot of rejection/denial going on by some of us (myself included).  That said, plans change.  You don't always get what you want. (sarcasm)

As far as Oliver & Tina without her ever having been seen by the audience.  Remember EBR's story? 

[sara1121]

38 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

It was in the Blastr interview. She was asked if she think the show is better off without Olicity and instead of saying yes totes better like the interviewer wanted (or yes totes better TinOliver foreva) she answered that Olicity are the Core Couple of the show and the writers get a lot of mileage out exploring different sides of their relationship and they are excited by where they are taking them in season 6

Do you mean this interview? http://www.blastr.com/2016-12-19/exclusive-arrow-showrunner-talks-flashpoint-future-olicity-and-season-six. 

Quote

Q.Do you think Oliver and Felicity are better when they’re not together?

A.(laughs) That is like the most loaded question!

Q. Because they’re such great friends and teammates, and we’re reminded of that again this season. 

A. We are. We made a choice at the top of this season not to … not to get them back together right away, for sure. And to leave that question up in the air. Which I think is a really real thing to happen. Going back to the real and roundedness, these are two people who have been thrown into this mission, and it’s not really a traditional workplace, so to speak. It’s a very unique situation. And we wanted to honor the reality of, it’s always hard to work with somebody you really care about. In season four, we saw them work together while trying to maintain a relationship. Now, they’re working together in the context of not knowing what their future is, romantically. 

I think both sides provide — having them together and apart —  certain types of storytelling opportunities. This season has certainly given us different ones. But I think ultimate the key thing, and i think is true for so many series, especially ones where you’ve been fortunate enough to go to 100 episodes and beyond, that you have that central core relationship and as writers you have that opportunity to explore it. And you can take it many different directions. We definitely have some ideas about where we’re headed in Season 6. We’ll see where that goes.

She said core relationship not core couple which is a bit different to me. Digg and Oliver and Oliver and Thea also have central core relationships. To me she is saying that they have ideas not a whole Olicity storyline planned. Could be felicity as season 6 villain? That's a different direction! (Though I dont actually think that one is likely, for the record).

Edited January 5, 2017 by sara1121

[LeighAn]

Except they didn't write Emily to be a love interest like is being hypothesised here. They liked her character and found her charming do they kept writing her in and eventually wrote her to be Olivers love interest after Laurel failed spectacularly at the task at hand. 

People are speculating Tina is being written in specifically to be Oliver love interest despite the fact that Olicity haven't failed spectacularly as a couple and are immensely popular and probably the most asked about aspect of the show.

So comparing Tina to Emily doesn't work as a straight up comparison

[LeighAn]

8 minutes ago, sara1121 said:

Do you mean this interview? http://www.blastr.com/2016-12-19/exclusive-arrow-showrunner-talks-flashpoint-future-olicity-and-season-six. 

She said core relationship not core couple which is a bit different to me. Digg and oliver digg and thea also have central core relationships. To me she is saying that they have ideas not And she said they had ideas not a whole Olicity storyline planned. Could be felicity as season 6 villain? That's a different direction! (Though I dont actually think that one is likely, for the record).

This isnt directed entirely at you but Im sorry:

So now Olicity is over, TinOliver forever, Felicity is going to leave the show and come back for "very special appearances" AND become a Villan because...

Honestly I'm not trying to be snarky and defensive but this reasoning is all becoming exhausting about stuff that has no absolutely no basis in fact. 

In that answer she says we made a choice to not put Olicity back together RIGHT AWAY which is mean a stall.

But if people need to believe the opposite despite lack of evidence fine.

Edited January 5, 2017 by LeighAn

[Sunshine]

I just meant that they don't necessarily make big decisions based on audience reaction.  If they like Oliver & Tina, they might go there before we ever meet her.  They have to be writing 17 or 18 now (I think).  Based on the sides I think Tina is meant to be the female equivalent of Oliver.  I don't know if Tina is being written to be his love interest.  I do think some teasing will happen even if they never go there.  

[dirtypop90]

I've always believed Tina/Oliver will get a try because the actress who plays Tina is too attractive IMO for TPTB not to be tempted to at least test her with the male lead. No deeper reason needed for them.

So what happens to Olicity largely depends on whether the actress who plays Tina has chemistry with Stephen Amell IMO. If they have chemistry, I dont see tina failing because fan boys will love her. She's a mask and hot and the writers won't treat her like they did laurel (writing wise). I do believe they have learned from those days.

Obviously can't call because we haven't seen tina and oliver in a scene yet. But I strongly believe TPTB will try to correct the mistakes they made with laurel with Tina. And I think this actress is far more likeable than Katie. So, to me, it will come down tochemistry.

I am (was) a fan of olicity (mixed feelings now) but I wont hate Tina for existing, if the actress is good drums up chem with Amell, which IMO is hard to do.

Edited January 5, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Mellowyellow]

Are there more fan boys than shippers ?

[dirtypop90]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Are there more fan boys than shippers ?

A fanboy can be a shipper (ship tina/oliver as a couple) If you mean Olicity shippers, Tina could convert people. There's no way to know until she actually joins the show.  But people hop off and on ships all the time and the writing for olicity sucks IMO. I'm a shipper, but not as invested in Olicity as I was, due to the poor writing for olicity. I could be swayed elsewhere and other people who have cooled on olicity like me could be won over, and then you add the olicity haters.  So yea I think Tina/Oliver have a major shot if the chem is there.

Edited January 5, 2017 by dirtypop90

[LeighAn]

Why would the writers care about dudebros more then any other viewer. Arrow already brings them in strong male demo numbers? In fact where they seem to be losing overall viewership numbers is from their women demos. So why try to win over an audience base they've already won? 

[Sunshine]

For some reason males seem to be the coveted demo.  MG actually says he's writing for what type of show he'd like to see.  He often refers to the 10 year old boy inside himself.

[dirtypop90]

9 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Why would the writers care about dudebros more then any other viewer. Arrow already brings them in strong male demo numbers? In fact where they seem to be losing overall viewership numbers is from their women demos. So why try to win over an audience base they've already won? 

They will try to please both worlds with Tina. I don't know why people are assuming the casual viewer will hate Tina when we havent even seen her yet? I would understand if we knew she was terrible. But if the actress shows up and everything clicks, she wont be hated by the general audience and she will please comic book fans. Yes, there will be a group that will hate her solely because she gets in felicity's way but I really don't think the majority of viewers believe felicity is the show. There are some that like felicity and will also like Tina.

Edited January 5, 2017 by dirtypop90

[GirlvsTV]

5 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Honestly I'm not trying to be snarky and defensive but this reasoning is all becoming exhausting about stuff that has no absolutely no basis in fact. 

In that answer she says we made a choice to not put Olicity back together RIGHT AWAY which is mean a stall.

But if people need to believe the opposite despite lack of evidence fine.

Endless, circular arguments can be made for either outcome at this point. However, I keep seeing the notion of a O/T hookup being treated as if it's totally without evidence or merit and I find that, frankly, ridiculous. 

Tina is most likely being introduced as the superhero who is Oliver's comic romantic partner. WM just teased the 'connection' she'd develop with Oliver. Plus, I was trying to come up with ONE recurring (2+ consecutive eps) female character, who was single and not related to Oliver, that appeared on the show and was NOT a LI for Oliver - and the only one I could think of was LL's s1 friend. Except I'm not sure she ever met Oliver on the show. 

Anyway, my point is there is evidence for both outcomes. If you want to stay optimistic about Olicity that's great, but it isn't completely bonkers if others don't feel that way.

[Mellowyellow]

Maybe if we're all converted to Tina we'll be totally fine then! Everybody will be happy!

The fanfic will all go to waste though!

Someone was right when they said something along the lines of never ship a non comic pairing cuz it'll end badly. 

[tangerine95]

I don't think the idea of a Sara/Oliver type hook up is crazy, I don't think so but I can see why people would think it might be happening. But I find it really unlikely that the show is putting so much importance on Tina and her potentially having chemistry with Oliver and they're considering changing the main relationship they spent 4 seasons building up especially when they've already had to go through changing it once before to even get to olicity.

[MaisyDaisy]

I no longer visit the Olicity tag on tumblr due to the rampant passive aggression towards anyone not in the Olicity bubble. All the insinuations that Olicity is actually hot and heavy and on the cusp of reuniting at any given moment- I just lack the cognitive skills to see that.

I don't get the frustration at people discussing that Olicity is not 100% likely, or that Tina is a love interest or Nucanary. It might feel repetitive, but the logic is there.  

[lemotomato]

17 minutes ago, GirlvsTV said:

Tina is most likely being introduced as the superhero who is Oliver's comic romantic partner. WM just teased the 'connection' she'd develop with Oliver. Plus, I was trying to come up with ONE recurring (2+ consecutive eps) female character, who was single and not related to Oliver, that appeared on the show and was NOT a LI for Oliver - and the only one I could think of was LL's s1 friend. Except I'm not sure she ever met Oliver on the show. 

Amanda Waller. And when she was cast as thin and attractive, there were people speculating Oliver would sleep with her too, albeit in the flashbacks.

[statsgirl]

29 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

A fanboy can be a shipper (ship tina/oliver as a couple) If you mean Olicity shippers, Tina could convert people. There's no way to know until she actually joins the show.  But people hop off and on ships all the time and the writing for olicity sucks IMO. I'm a shipper, but not as invested in Olicity as I was, due to the poor writing for olicity. I could be swayed elsewhere and other people who have cooled on olicity like me could be won over, and then you add the olicity haters.  So yea I think Tina/Oliver have a major shot if the chem is there.

For me, it's about the character of Felicity.  No matter how good the chemistry between Oliver and Tina is, and the chemistry between Oliver and Sara was good, in the end, Tina will be just another mask, just another character on the show that we've already had 2 versions of, 5 if you count Nyssa, Lyla and Thea.  Same old, same old.

What appeals to me about Felicity is the fact that she's a hero she doesn't don a costume and go out and fight, that even though she's scared to death much of the time  she goes ahead and does what needs to be done, that she's important because she's smart, not because she can throw a punch, because she's funny (which Tina will probably not be) and because she's geeky and socially awkward like I feel much of the time.  I can identify with her, and there's no way I'm going to identify with tough ex-marine Tina.

Tina can be the best mask ever but there's no way she's going to be as good as Felicity for me because Felicity gives the show something no one else can.  She was the reason I started watching the show, and if they keep downplaying her, she's the reason I'm going to quit watching.

Edited January 5, 2017 by statsgirl

[dirtypop90]

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

For me, it's about the character of Felicity.  No matter how good the chemistry between Oliver and Tina is, and the chemistry between Oliver and Sara was good, in the end, Tina will be just another mask, just another character on the show that we've already had 2 versions of, 5 if you count Nyssa, Lyla and Thea.  Same old, same old.

What appeals to me about Felicity is the fact that she's a hero she doesn't don a costume and go out and fight, that even though she's scared to death much of the time  she goes ahead and does what needs to be done, that she's important because she's smart, not because she can throw a punch, because she's funny (which Tina will probably not be) and because she's geeky and socially awkward like I feel much of the time.  I can identify with her, and there's no way I'm going to identify with tough ex-marine Tina.

Tina can be the best mask ever but there's no way she's going to be as good as Felicity for me because Felicity gives the show something no one else can.  She was the reason I started watching the show, and if they keep downplaying her, she's the reason I'm going to quit watching.

I said I cooled on Olicity, not Felicity. I can enjoy Felicity's character and her story even if she doesn't end up with Oliver. I don't think felicity is in danger of going anywhere, and I dont think she needs to be with oliver to be great. I dont relate to felicity but I've always like her character second to Oliver's and didn't care much for Laurel (and Im actually a lawyer lol) or Sarah for the record. 

I enjoyed Oliver and Felicity before they got together and I can enjoy them both even if the story doesn't end with them together. 

IMO Just like it is unfair to downplay felicity because she doesn't have a mask, I think it unfair to say tina will be "just another mask" when we haven't even met her yet. She can be a mask and a good character.

Edited January 5, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Chaser]

I would actually argue there is no evidence of anything. A ton of spec to fit into preconceived notions, but no evidence.

What we know is that Tina is a cop that gets recruited to the Team. Occurring to Reddit spoilers, she is NuCanary. All the blanks being filled in are based on bias cause all the evidence of one thing has a counter point. 

She is BC so she is a LI .....  okay but Sara and Oliver dated and then broke up and when Laurel was NuCanary her and Oliver never dated.

She had an Island and her and Oliver have a connection ....... All masks have 'islands' and all the boobs have had a connection to Oliver (also its Team Arrow so that is important).

It's Comics!....... Refer to all previous seasons .....also, I don't believe Arrow is following the comics more this season than it has in the past, I just think its more action oriented this season and its focusing on new relationships. Those relationships happen to be with new comic characters, but the show introducing comic characters is not new.

The show isn't talking about Olicity or focusing on it.......That's par for course when it isn't happening.

All I'm saying is all this 'evidence' just cancels out. We don't know anything. I honestly think 'most likely' just depends on which side you were already standing on.