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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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statsgirl

statsgirl

20 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't think 505 is going to be awful, but I don't think it's going to end with them getting back together so I'm braced for seeing them again repeat that, nope, they are not together and that's not something I'm looking forward to even if I'm well aware of it.  Plus it's likely that it will then trigger Oliver to go off and get a love interest of his own and it's bad enough having to ignore the nearly not there Mayo but whoever Oliver "dates" is automatically going to get more screen time.  So 505 could have something really positive in it, but it's not going to IMO change anything on screen in what I'd consider a positive way, at least not for a while.  

If Oliver and Felicity being apart in any way is affecting the ratings, then to double down on it and let the audience know "nothing to see here, folks, they're split" seems like bad management to me.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If Oliver and Felicity being apart in any way is affecting the ratings, then to double down on it and let the audience know "nothing to see here, folks, they're split" seems like bad management to me.

But they have to be free to tell their story! ;p

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'd have to give these guys a shit ton of credit if they actually made Prometheus Evil E2 Oliver or Oliver's broken psyche being both hero and villain.

That would be such a WTF moment if it did happen.  

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

At least it would be an interesting WTF moment, IMO

I've suggested it before as well but I think it would be five minutes of interesting and the rest of the series just off the rails unwatchable.  ( The version where Oliver has a split personality - E2 I think would be interesting but illogical) 

Edited by BkWurm1
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
23 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'd have to give these guys a shit ton of credit if they actually made Prometheus Evil E2 Oliver or Oliver's broken psyche being both hero and villain.

Sneak peek starts at 1:00:

Edited by apinknightmare
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catrox14

catrox14

41 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I've suggested it before as well but I think it would be five minutes of interesting and the rest of the series just off the rails unwatchable.  ( The version where Oliver has a split personality - E2 I think would be interesting but illogical) 

For me at least it would fun and different and as far as illogical...well, it never stopped this show before. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I've suggested it before as well but I think it would be five minutes of interesting and the rest of the series just off the rails unwatchable.  ( The version where Oliver has a split personality - E2 I think would be interesting but illogical) 

I think the Earth 2 Oliver idea is both interesting and possible. The biggest problem is the fact that Prometheus is supposed to be related to something Oliver did in S1. Not sure how to make that work.

If this was the final season they could go the St. Elsewhere route. If course that would probably kill the DVD sales

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

21 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think the Earth 2 Oliver idea is both interesting and possible. The biggest problem is the fact that Prometheus is supposed to be related to something Oliver did in S1. Not sure how to make that work.

If this was the final season they could go the St. Elsewhere route. If course that would probably kill the DVD sales

No snow globes!!!!

Yeah it's the season one connection that makes E2 Oliver illogical.  Unless E2 Oliver wasn't lost at sea but accidentally transported to E1 and he was pissed that E1 Oliver got to go home his his family while E2 Oliver was stuck here?  

Yeah, I got nothing.  

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

eah it's the season one connection that makes E2 Oliver illogical.  Unless E2 Oliver wasn't lost at sea but accidentally transported to E1 and he was pissed that E1 Oliver got to go home his his family while E2 Oliver was stuck here?  

Actually...this is not the worst idea.

Hmmm. My wild ass spec: 

Maybe when Barry messed up the timeline the first time, E1 and E2 Oliver's swapped. E2 Oliver came over and is the bad Oliver who lied to Felicity about the BMD drama, who conveniently didn't have sex with Felicity again that I can remember post shooting and post breakup so we can avoid any skeevy non-con with Felicity being with the wrong Oliver, and did other idiotic OOC things. And Prometheus is really OUR Oliver who is coming back to reclaim his life from Evil E2 Oliver.

Edited by catrox14
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TrueMyth

TrueMyth

I'm so confused when people talk about E2 Oliver.  The Oliver of Flash's Earth 2 (the steampunky world where Harrison Wells is the father to Jessie Quick) is DEAD.  He died on the Gambit and his father likely became the Arrow.  I assume people just use "Earth 2" to refer to any alternate world Oliver, but it's still confusing.

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catrox14

catrox14

36 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

I'm so confused when people talk about E2 Oliver.  The Oliver of Flash's Earth 2 (the steampunky world where Harrison Wells is the father to Jessie Quick) is DEAD.  He died on the Gambit and his father likely became the Arrow.  I assume people just use "Earth 2" to refer to any alternate world Oliver, but it's still confusing.

Maybe he didn't die after all.  #BlameBarry

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

38 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

I'm so confused when people talk about E2 Oliver.  The Oliver of Flash's Earth 2 (the steampunky world where Harrison Wells is the father to Jessie Quick) is DEAD.  He died on the Gambit and his father likely became the Arrow.  I assume people just use "Earth 2" to refer to any alternate world Oliver, but it's still confusing.

 

28 minutes ago, Thundercatmary said:

Supposedly he died ;)

Exactly.  I am referring to the supposedly dead Oliver from E2.  Unless you see a corpse (and frequently not even then) the dead are not very dead on this show.    

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Maybe he didn't die after all.  #BlameBarry

Earth 2 wasn't affected by Flashpoint.  Wells came back still knowing the same timeline that Barry remembered.  (So at least one person yelled at Barry for messing with time travel.  I knew I liked that guy.  )

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Anyone else thinking Church is gonna be dead at the end of 505? Looks like from the promo stills that GA and Church meet at least twice in the next ep. It's ludicrous that they've fought each other so many times and Oliver hasn't put this guy down (my frustration with Damien and GA facing off all the time last season; we knew nothing was going to happen because it wasn't the finale yet). Chad Coleman is recurring, but that doesn't have to mean the entire season, does it? 

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catrox14

catrox14

41 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Earth 2 wasn't affected by Flashpoint.  Wells came back still knowing the same timeline that Barry remembered.  (So at least one person yelled at Barry for messing with time travel.  I knew I liked that guy.  )

Once they start messing with timelines all bets are off, IMO. They can decide at any time that oops..it really did have another effect when they need it.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
17 minutes ago, Chaser said:

DR casting and Brian Sullivan is now following Harkavy. Confirms it for me and since Sullivan co wrote 5x10 I think she does appear in 5x10 instead of 5x11.

Interesting.  I was just looking her up on IMDb.  I haven't seen her in anything, but there was a picture of her with Audrey Marie Anderson in The Walking Dead.  Somehow I'd missed that AMA was in that.  

I'm still trying to figure out what the logic is in this nu!Canary business.  Somehow I just am not understanding the reasoning here.

Edited by Starfish35
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Chaser

Chaser

I'm not sold on the theory of nuCanary. I think it's more likely to be a BC like character. Like you said, The logic of doing a new black canary is hard to follow. 

In show it doesn't make sense and it makes even less sense out of show. 

Honestly, this entire thing is frustrating me. I don't want a new mask and I'm not looking forward to them teasing this character. 

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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

I mean I agree I don't want yet another mask, and for sure not another BC. On the other hand a bad ass girl to hang with Felicity and Thea could be cool.  I think though that there is already to many masks and someone on the new team has to go.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Anyone else thinking Church is gonna be dead at the end of 505? Looks like from the promo stills that GA and Church meet at least twice in the next ep. It's ludicrous that they've fought each other so many times and Oliver hasn't put this guy down (my frustration with Damien and GA facing off all the time last season; we knew nothing was going to happen because it wasn't the finale yet). Chad Coleman is recurring, but that doesn't have to mean the entire season, does it? 

I think Church is going to get killed off too. The promo seems to indicate he knows Oliver is GA and usually when villains know, the're not long for the world. Also, if Church was meant just to be the bad guy that brings the newbies together and they establish themselves as a team in 505, it would explain MG's comments about 505 being the end of a chapter, and 506's title "So It Begins"

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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)
3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm still trying to figure out what the logic is in this nu!Canary business.  Somehow I just am not understanding the reasoning here.

More masks = better show = nobody cares about plot because people in leather are fighting= job as a writer well done.

New Canary = way to get Oliver to follow his tradition of showing every Canary his bedroom eyes..

I guess, they just assume that all people about care is the comic book aspect of the show and therefore they want to attract them by adding characters that might seem familiar to comic fans yet they can still claim that they are original characters because they give them a new name to go with their known comic counterpart. 

Edited by Belinea
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I can't think of a good reason why they'd add another Canary unless it was to kill Olicity for good.  The show already has a tonne of masks.

I'm still not completely sold on a nuCanary, but IF they are adding one, an alternate good reason is because Time Warner told them to. Because they want the BC brand visible. Because maybe those rumors they'll put BC in the Harley Quinn movie are true.

But WHY would they use a third Canary to kill O/F when the first two didn't kill it, I do not know.

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Belinea

Belinea

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

But WHY would they use a third Canary to kill O/F when the first two didn't kill it, I do not know.

Their logic is something that we probably aren't supposed to get. Maybe BC1 (Sara) couldn't stay as LI because BC2 was still around and had to become BC. Therefore BC1 had to go. Unfortunately BC2 had no romantic chemistry with SA. So maybe they think that the third time's a charm and BC3 will be able to be crime fighter and have romantic chemistry with the lead. If she ends up being a LI for Oliver. Because at this point she could also be added for the most annoying newbie, Wild Dog. For some reason he seems to be extra special..

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)
12 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Their logic is something that we probably aren't supposed to get. Maybe BC1 (Sara) couldn't stay as LI because BC2 was still around and had to become BC. Therefore BC1 had to go. Unfortunately BC2 had no romantic chemistry with SA. So maybe they think that the third time's a charm and BC3 will be able to be crime fighter and have romantic chemistry with the lead.

The only way this works is if they kill Felicity. I'm pretty sure they know that too.

Like, I completely get the idea behind Canary = the boogeyman who will cockblock O/F forever. It's the exact same one that was around forever when Laurel was alive. Any Canary is a threat to the main 'ship ~because comics~. I get that. But they would still need Felicity to be dead or gone for it to work.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

I would have preferred to keep Laurel! She was so devoid of chemistry with O I felt like she was a non threat. The looks of horror he used to give her! I felt like there was more chance she'd run off with Felicity than get Oliver to run off with her.  I would have preferred Laurel stay as Canary.

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doesntworkonwood

doesntworkonwood

My opposition toward nuCanary is less so anything to do with Oliver and Felicity (which I doubt they'll drop because it's definitely a factor in bringing in viewers) and more so 'we've already had two (three if you include Evelyn for 1 episode), why do we need another one?'. Especially with all the newbies, what could she actually bring to the table? We don't need any more muscle, Oliver has already got help leading his team with Felicity and Diggle, and Felicity and Curtis pretty much cover the tech side. Felicity already has connections to the SCPD, Oliver has connections to the DA's office (because you know, he's mayor), we've got Lyla with connections not only to ARGUS but also the POTUS (when the show remembers), they have Rory on the team plus they're still friends with Barry if they've ever got problems with metahumans. They've got their hands in every pot, what is she actually going to do?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm still not completely sold on a nuCanary, but IF they are adding one, an alternate good reason is because Time Warner told them to. Because they want the BC brand visible. Because maybe those rumors they'll put BC in the Harley Quinn movie are true.

But WHY would they use a third Canary to kill O/F when the first two didn't kill it, I do not know.

4th Canary, they already put Evelyn in the Canary outfit in 419 and 423 (filmed but cut). Hell she even got the Canary Cry.

I have never bought into this Tina character as the new Black Canary. Jade Canary, maybe. Lady Blackhawke or Starling also possible. Hell they could make her Manhunter for all I know. 

I also don't buy the idea that Oliver/Tina are LI. I think people latched onto fake sides written just to test an actress and decided this is 100% what's going to happen.

I have no doubt that WB wants more masks for merchandizing, spinoffs and to guage movie appearances but, I don't think they want a 4th Black Canary that has absolutely no relevance to the actual comics. Because if they did, they would have kept Evelyn in the Black Canary role

@MuuMuuChainsmoker please move TV Echo's lost to the summary thread

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Belinea

Belinea

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I have no doubt that WB wants more masks for merchandizing, spinoffs and to guage movie appearances

Considering all the 'trouble' they seem to be currently having with their movies maybe they should indeed focus their attention on stuff that sells for them but I sometimes wonder if they get that concept. You have to be really talented to get two of the most famous superheros and still make a movie that fans still don't really care for...

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

2 hours ago, Belinea said:

Their logic is something that we probably aren't supposed to get. Maybe BC1 (Sara) couldn't stay as LI because BC2 was still around and had to become BC. Therefore BC1 had to go.

Sara couldn't stay because of Laurel, yes. But it had nothing to do with being a love interest for either of them, IMO. By the time S2 rolled in, Laurel had already been stripped of the LI role. Sara in S2B was essentially set up to be the diversion for the "woman I love" twist at the end of the season. 

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I can't think of a good reason why they'd add another Canary unless it was to kill Olicity for good. 

3 hours ago, Belinea said:

So maybe they think that the third time's a charm and BC3 will be able to be crime fighter and have romantic chemistry with the lead.

Hang the entire future of the show (hundreds of millions of dollars in business) on the possibility the audience MIGHT go for a third Canary/GA romance when the first 2 didn't pan out? I know, I know, Arrow has done a lot of stupid things and TPTB is still doing a lot of stupid things behind the scenes, but I have difficulty buying BC3 as something meant to kill Olicity. I'm more inclined to believe Time Warner demands to put more IPs out there and sell more merchandise. Stalling the ship is probably seen as an added bonus but I don't see killing the main ship as the purpose. 

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Sunshine

Sunshine

I think NuCanary is a WB/DC mandate.  My concern isn't about being a love interest.  I am more concerned about a 2B repeat where everyone is sidelined for this character. Nothing indicates this but I don't have faith in the storylines anymore. 

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emarasmoak

emarasmoak

(edited)
1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

I think NuCanary is a WB/DC mandate.  My concern isn't about being a love interest.  I am more concerned about a 2B repeat where everyone is sidelined for this character. Nothing indicates this but I don't have faith in the storylines anymore. 

I absolutely agree with this. I think that this is a WB/DC mandate to make everyone forget that the last live iteration of Black Canary wasn't as successful as TPTB hoped (it was such a failure that they had to remove her of the LI role and then have her killed). So I think that they hope that when Black Canary gets to be in a movie (Harley Quinn's?) there would be a positive buzz about the character (this could happen if we get a good and likeable actress that can be believable while fighting, such as CL or KL, and does not get the LI treatment with Oliver).

I think that this is similar to the rumours about a possible movie including Wild Dong, pointing that the reason that such an annoying character is getting so much time is that they hope we love him so they could use this positive buzz to promote the movie and sell merchandising.

Edited by emarasmoak
grammar/ spelling
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catrox14

catrox14

Hmmm. I'm really going to laugh if this new woman is actually a half-Lance sister, or Dinah's sister who is name Dinah Drake.

Wild Ass Spec:

If Prometheus is  Evil E(x) Oliver, perhaps he meets this NuBlackCanary (if that's who she is) and they can be sent back to whence he came with her. BECAUSE COMICS is fulfilled.  Our Oliver can continue being Green Arrow and O/F finally get back together.

It's like SPOILERS FOR DOCTOR WHO:

   the Meta Human Crisis Doctor and Rose being coupled up in the parallel universe 

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arjumand

arjumand

34 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Good news guys! Arrow is not being used as a prop for a spin off, but hey there's this movie....

I read that in the Professor's voice, hope you don't mind.

good news.jpg

 

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

On 505, SA: "Oliver and Felicity discuss a little bit about the relationship and, you know, where it is in this week's episode. Fun scenes." (EW PopFest,

Oh. Hooray.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Here's what I don't get about the idea that a New BC is coming to fulfill the BC/GA romance canon. Why? Why would the show want to fulfill comic canon now. The show dropped Dinah Laurel Lance and Oliver Jonas Queen after the first season (really, way before that). The GA/BC pairing of the second season was a means to an end and had the added bonus of establishing Olicity. We know TPTB like talking out of both sides of their mouth but they've been pretty consistent about eschewing comic canon for the stories they want to tell. So, again, why would fulfilling comic canon, "because comics," be important now? 

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Chaser

Chaser

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the EPs have any desire to have any version of GA/BC on their show. They did the non-mask version in S1 and the masked version in S2. Pretty sure they are good. I also don't believe there is any mandate for GA/BC to be live action. If there was, we would have seen it before now. I think any talk of GA/BC is nerves.

As for this new girl being a ship stall. It doesn't work if its nuBC. At all. NuBC with the potential to be regular doesn't say TEMP and keep Olicity in WHEN. It's says THREAT and puts Olicity in IF (With how the fandom is right now). If she isn't BC then I think there is a slight chance she is a Temp LI (like Huntress). And by slight I mean like 10%. 90% percent sees Olicity getting back together in 5x10. Esp given the response to the first few episodes.

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Chaser

Chaser

Regarding Prometheus, I can't picture any of the potentials as him right now. I think E2 or 3 or 4 is interesting but I think its too weird at the moment. I'm not sure how they could work it all in without it being super contrived. Part of me thinks we haven't even meet him yet.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Regarding Prometheus, I can't picture any of the potentials as him right now. I think E2 or 3 or 4 is interesting but I think its too weird at the moment. I'm not sure how they could work it all in without it being super contrived. Part of me thinks we haven't even meet him yet.

i would agree, I'm guessing it's someone we haven't met yet.  Seems like 509 will be his backstory/reveal just like 209.

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the EPs have any desire to have any version of GA/BC on their show. They did the non-mask version in S1 and the masked version in S2. Pretty sure they are good. I also don't believe there is any mandate for GA/BC to be live action. If there was, we would have seen it before now. I think any talk of GA/BC is nerves.

As for this new girl being a ship stall. It doesn't work if its nuBC. At all. NuBC with the potential to be regular doesn't say TEMP and keep Olicity in WHEN. It's says THREAT and puts Olicity in IF (With how the fandom is right now). If she isn't BC then I think there is a slight chance she is a Temp LI (like Huntress). And by slight I mean like 10%. 90% percent sees Olicity getting back together in 5x10. Esp given the response to the first few episodes.

^^^^ This!  100% This

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