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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Belinea

Belinea

I think it is problematic that everyone and their mother saw and heard (even from Laurel herself) that she loves Oliver but he doesn't love her like that anymore. She wasn't his true love. Why change that after everything. Isn't that making Laurel even more of an idiot when she should be this super empowered woman?

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Sunshine

Sunshine

5.08 "The Love Letter" 

Based on pics we've seen, in the AU (timeline or earth) Felicity will have established Smoak Technologies.  EBR cameo probably.  No idea what they are doing with Diggle in the episode.  

If the rumors are true, although the source is unproven, we may be getting a rehearsal dinner and wedding for Laurel Lance and someone.  This gives KC her dream "Love Interest" role she feels was wrongly taken from her. KC is posing in that picture with the ring hand showing on purpose would be my guess.

Colin Donnell is unavailable due to filming Chicago Med but they think they have a way to get him in.  I wonder if they are using the same technology that they used for the Human Target episode.  If it worked well in 5.05 they might be doing the same thing with Tommy.  Wil Traval did tweet that he was back in Vancouver (could be totally unrelated) and could certainly double for Tommy with the help of technology.

I think marrying Oliver is the most likely scenario (love of Laurel's life and all that) but if Thea and Oliver are "looking in" on the happenings could they actually be part of them?  Does Thea wanting to stay make sense if Thea is alive and well there?  Do they become "them"?  I am unfamiliar with how this works so I may be way off base.  I haven't watched Flash since S1 except for crossovers so I haven't seen any E2 episodes.

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quarks

quarks

I'm not entirely sure where this idea that Felicity will only have a cameo appearance in 508 is coming from.  Granted, I'm also the one arguing that with at least 25 speaking parts, no one other than Oliver, Barry and Kara will have that much screentime in 508, but that said, EBR is BTS pictures with other Arrowverse actors, and has been a pretty big part of the previous crossover episodes, both on Flash and Arrow.

And Berlanti still sees Felicity as a draw - he put her in the Superhero Fight Club promo, after all, and she's heavily featured in the promos for Flash next week. He keeps putting Felicity-like characters into his shows. Given that the main point of these crossover episodes is to get Supergirl and  Flash viewers to watch Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, I think she'll have a bit more than a cameo. 

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RussianRoulette

RussianRoulette

(edited)

Oh holy hell! @dtissagirl why would you say that? Do not poke masters of the CW universe! 

Though it would, of course, be the nail in the coffin to have Laurel wearing Moira's ring. Or, you know, a further declaration of love to the fans. 

Bwahahahaha. This is hilarious in such a bad way. 

(That said Moira is presumably alive in this universe as well as Robert. Why would she hand out her ring? And Laurel's ring seems to have a pavé band, which I think Moira's didn't?) 

Edited by RussianRoulette
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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Am I allowed to dream that Oliver have his rehearsal dinner and then have to attend an urgent business meeting with the impressive Miss Smoak. Cue all the squee-ness from the season 1 laptop meeting.

I would TOTALLY be happy with that! 

Laurel can keep her ring and smug smile! If he meets Felicity its game over! 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I really don't understand how an Oliver/Laurel wedding in an alt.universe could possibly be a love letter to any fans of the show.  Laurel is dead in our universe and this would just be rubbing salt in the wounds of those who shipped her with Oliver.  And does anyone who ships Oliver with Felicity (or Sara or anyone else) want to see an Oliver/Laurel wedding?  Finally, anyone who doesn't care for shipping at all isn't going to want to see such an event either. 

I hope that Felicity and Diggle aren't minimized in the 100th episode. Without them (OTA), Arrow probably wouldn't have even made it to 100 episodes. I don't think the same could be said about any other character on the show not named Oliver Queen.

-- Andrew Kreisberg (TV Line, Apr. 21, 2013): "[Felicity] is our secret weapon that we didn’t even know we had."

-- Andrew Kreisberg (EW, Sep. 7, 2013) on the new fun dynamic between Oliver, Diggle and Felicity: ”One of the crew members actually pointed this out to us. He said, ‘The scripts are really funny this year.’ It’s not just Felicity. It’s having Felicity and Dig and Oliver together. Having that triumvirate... All three of the actors are pretty light on their feet. The characters have survived the Undertaking, and they’ve gotten into a bit of a rhythm. One of the things we’re really exploring is that they’ve really become friends. And they really have become family. There’s an easygoing camaraderie about them that allows them to enjoy what they’re doing a little bit more.”

-- Andrew Kreisberg (EW, Jan. 10, 2016): "Arrow took awhile to find itself. Arrow needed Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) which it didn’t have early on, and it had voiceover, which it didn’t need."

-- Media tweet (WGFestival, Apr. 16, 2016): "Kreisberg: It was around midseason of Season1 when the show became #Arrow. Guggenheim: Episode 18, everything clicked for us.  #WGFestival."

-- Andrew Kreisberg (Collider, Aug. 25, 2016): "We’re so proud of Supergirl last season, but it reminded us, a little bit, of Season 1 of Arrow. We knew there was a great show in there and, every once in awhile, we would make it great, but we didn’t know how to do it consistently yet. We really feel like this year, at least for us creatively, we’ve cracked the code and we’re coming out of the gate strong. It’s almost the same trajectory that we had on Arrow, where we started to figure it out towards the back half of Season 1, and we’re coming out of the gate really strong with Season 2."

-- Andrew Kreisberg (EW, Oct. 7, 2016): "The experience of Supergirl is more akin to the experience we had on Arrow, where we knew there was a great show in there, and every once in awhile we made a great one, but it wasn’t until the back half of that first season — and certainly the beginning of season 2 — that we really felt like we had a handle of what that show was creatively."

-- Stephen Amell (PaleyFest, Mar. 9, 2013): "I don't think that my character had cracked a smile, you know, before episode 3 when I saw [Felicity].  And we were shooting that - I remember calling you guys afterwards. I started saying, 'Emily was really great and that was a really fun scene to shoot.' I had a - you know, I'm legitimately laughing at her as she's bubbling away, and I'm so happy, you know, it was getting lonely in the Foundry with Diggle." David Ramsey: "It was, it was. I mean, how many sit-ups can I watch this dude so? ... Sad. It was very sad before Felicity."

-- David Ramsey (Comic Book Central, Mar. 7, 2015): "No one saw Felicity and Oliver coming. Nobody saw that.  I mean, Emily, to her great credit, was hired as a guest star on the show. And, um, no one saw that character morphing the way it did.  And I've said publicly before, thank - I mean, thank God she did because me - you know, for the first several episodes, even half the season, it was just me and Stephen kinda brooding around Starling City fighting crime.  And then you have, thank God, this comic relief in Emily Bett (interviewer interjects, "uh, breath of fresh air") coming in really - breath of fresh air.  And - but even with that - and she could very well have stayed in that place where there was some comic relief and you kinda give her some one-liners and it really would stay that breath of fresh air, like you said . But to see the chemistry that she had with Stephen, and that kinda morphed into a romance between Felicity and Oliver - I don't think anyone called that. I think people - I think the fans probably hoped for it, but - but to see it really happen and become something else [unintelligible word] - nobody really knew that was coming."

-- David Ramsey (City of Heroes 2, May 15, 2015): "I always say, 'thank God for Emily' because it was just me and Oliver for the first season, just brooding around the foundry. It was like, 'oh God, the foundry and Starling City, and let's save the city, what are we going to do?' Just two men - it was hard for us to talk to each other. Finally Felicity showed up for some levity. But seriously, Emily - I mean, how many good things can be said about Emily? She was never intended to be who she became, at least in the writers' room. She just made the audience - us, the cast members - we just fell in love with her. She's a terrific actor and lights up every single scene that she's in."

Edited by tv echo
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

The biggest struggle parsing vague info/spoilers for Arrow is, because the show obviously writes for an audience who has never watched any kind of TV show ever before, that I have to look at the info and go, but what would a person who has never watched TV before think about this?

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way2interested

way2interested

The way I could possibly see it happen(a.k.a would want to happen), given the actual little spoilers that we have, is

  • Aliens throw Oliver into dream-world after rendering the metahumans/powered people powerless to get rid of all of the main heroes
  • Dream-world is generic things someone like Oliver would want back- money, family/friends alive, no responsibility as GA
  • Oliver immediately knows something is up, but is momentarily thrown-off balance with seeing his family back and GA out of existence
  • He is engaged/married to Laurel, but it's she and Sara who really have more of cameos, not Diggle/Felicity

Next part is more of my own random spec:

  • GA doesn't exist, but crime still does (s1 villain cameo), pushing Oliver to become the vigilante again even in dream-world
  • He tries to find dream Diggle and Felicity to make OTA once again, along the way finding Deathstroke which pushes the three of them together to stop him
  • Insert fights and dramatic moment of Oliver leaving his "dream world," etc.

It's probably asking too much, but I could honestly see something like that happening (with probably a mix of other references/moments) that I would partially consider a love letter to the fans.  

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Just to clarify, when I said EBR cameo I meant at Smoak Technologies in the AU not in the episode.  I think more time would be given to Queens/Lances/Merlyns.  Those were the 3 families the show was originally supposed to be about.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I don't think this is a Earth 2 situation, I think it is dream world the Aliens put Oliver and Thea in. Oliver knows nothing about Earth 2 so I don't see how any of that would be in his dream. I think he'll see Sara and Deathstroke will appear making him think about another life where the three of them were connected. Maybe Diggle shows up as Green Arrow further making Oliver question the dream. I think Felicity will ultimately be the one to break Oliver out of the dream world. Maybe he passes by her on the street or Felicity is calling out to him in the real world to wake up. 

Also if they make Oliver married or getting married to Laurel, I think it will show how they are not meant to be together. That reality isn't real and will never be real. It will be seeing the people in his dream that are real vs the ones that are not. 

Edited by Sakura12
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bijoux

bijoux

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

Colin Donnell is unavailable due to filming Chicago Med but they think they have a way to get him in.  I wonder if they are using the same technology that they used for the Human Target episode.  If it worked well in 5.05 they might be doing the same thing with Tommy.  Wil Traval did tweet that he was back in Vancouver (could be totally unrelated) and could certainly double for Tommy with the help of technology.

I didn't get the impression that CD will turn up at all, just that Tommy would be acknowledged by other characters. Maybe he'll just be in the other room the whole time.

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Chaser

Chaser

Everything seems to indicate that KC will only have a scene(s?) at the mansion, probably married to Oliver. If I was a KC/LL fan I would be pissed. Instead of highlighting Black Canary, they give her stepford wife. If that is what they believe comic fans want..

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tarotx

tarotx

'What if" episodes (which 100 may or may not be but feels like it might) are a common trope. I think Oliver is going to be given the chance to be out of his "super hero" business but it would mean not having the most important parts of himself - his purpose and friends. He's going to be led to believe this one is real but he'll choose the life we've been watching unfold instead of what would be a dream scenario. 

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Ophanim

Ophanim

(edited)

I need to see at least 2 more episodes before I give my judgment about direction/storyline in season 5. RE: 100 episode aka love letter episode, if I learn something for past few years, G is delusional in own reception how some stories are received. I already said it will all depend how S/E would play their scenes.

Does anyone think there is order above, DC or CW TPTB to cancel/suspense olicity in season 5? for whatever reason. Judging by big lack of PR for term olicity, even by writers itself, who in the past were pro, now you have EP/writers saying they are writing away from romance (olicity). I am sure there will be romance. Just no olicity. What do you think?

Maybe EBR (I hope not!) is leaving and they need establish new romance/storyline. Maybe retcon with Lauren isn't coincidence, maybe is it Flashpoint and in new timeline, L is/was actually saint, and "Ollie" loved her and she been love of his life, I don't know, I just trying to explain sudden arise of "sainty" L, and her potentially permanent  comeback on Arrow in 5B. Berlanti did said in one interview regarding changes in Flaspoint: you'll find out a few over the first couple of episodes some of the mild [effects]. They're not significant, but they become a little bit more emotionally significant," So F loves her BF, and O discovers suddenly "lost love" for L.  Just speculation. God, I feel like we talking more about L now when she is dead, than when she was live and on show. 

Edited by Lidach
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Chaser

Chaser

I've seen a couple people on Twitter talk about "the wedding" being confirmed as Sara and Ray. What?

9 minutes ago, Lidach said:

I need to see at least 2 more episodes before I give my judgment about direction/storyline in season 5. RE: 100 episode aka love letter episode, if I learn something for past few years, G is delusional in own reception how some stories are received. I already said it will all depend how S/E would play their scenes.

Does anyone think there is order above, DC or CW TPTB to cancel/suspense olicity in season 5? for whatever reason. Judging by big lack of PR for term olicity, even by writers itself, who in the past were pro, now you have EP/writers saying they are writing away from romance (olicity). I am sure there will be romance. Just no olicity. What do you think?

Maybe EBR (I hope not!) is leaving and they need establish new romance/storyline. Maybe retcon with Lauren isn't coincidence, maybe is it Flashpoint and in new timeline, L is/was actually saint, and "Ollie" loved her and she been love of his life, I don't know, I just trying to explain sudden arise of "sainty" L, and her potentially permanent  comeback on Arrow in 5B. Berlanti did said in one interview regarding changes in Flaspoint: you'll find out a few over the first couple of episodes some of the mild [effects]. They're not significant, but they become a little bit more emotionally significant," So F loves her BF, and O discovers suddenly "lost love" for L.  Just speculation. God, I feel like we talking more about L now when she is dead, than when she was live and on show. 

I think they are doing a standard ship stall. They aren't promoting Olicity right now but what they have said about it and what we saw in the first episode tells me it is still very much in the plan.

They have always focused a lot on the action and masks in the promos. It does feel more than usual (esp with the lack of Olicity). My best guess would be because of the drop in the male demo. They care lots about the male demo and they have a very stereotypical view about what the male demo wants to see. 

The "saintly" Laurel stuff is to give her death meaning. They get to pretend she was always the character they wanted her be. 

"Emotionally significant" could be like Diggle's family changing. The knowledge Felicity carries with her would be emotional. 

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Ophanim

Ophanim

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

 

The "saintly" Laurel stuff is to give her death meaning. They get to pretend she was always the character they wanted her be. 

"Emotionally significant" could be like Diggle's family changing. The knowledge Felicity carries with her would be emotional. 

They can pretend, but viewers and critic noticed difference. Again showing/telling is presenting as writers main problem in storytelling.

I forget about Diggle and his potentially family changes in  Flashpoint, I hope Sara is still here and boy is his nephew.   

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Chaser

Chaser

There is an old tumblr response from MG that's cracking me up. Someone asked for a scene of Oliver and Laurel married in alternative universe (since Olicity fans get whatever they want, this would be for comic fans). MG did his normal "we don't write for fandoms, we write for the story and what's organic" and then said if it works they would do an alternative universe. 

That's literally what he is going to do. Write one scene of them married and then spend the rest of episode writing against it. He is going to give them fan service from tumblr. The shade. LOL

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

What? Why would Oliver imagine Sara and Ray getting married? They also barely talked to each other on LoT.  

It would make sense for their love letter to fans by having Oliver and Laurel get married because comics. Then have it all be dream orchestrated by evil aliens. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Chaser

Chaser

Re: Ray and Sara. I have no idea. I looked on the LOT forum to see if something posted something there but I couldn't see it. I saw one of the twitters(yv something) say that BR and CL are filming at the mansion for LoT on Wednesday. But I don't know if that was the Twitter that was trolling or how that comfirms anything.

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

What? Why would Oliver imagine Sara and Ray getting married? They also barely talked to each other on LoT.  

It would make sense for their love letter to fans by having Oliver and Laurel get married because comics. Then have it all be dream orchestrated by evil aliens. 

When it comes to the relationships, I'd rather they honor the show they have been writing for five years.

Leave the comic influence to the action. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

Aw, well at least KC gets to live her Lauriver dream for an episode. Good for her. It's all she's ever wanted.

But if this is a dream world orchestrated by evil aliens (I forgot about the aliens for a brief happy time, haha), why would they have O/L married? Surely Oliver will be like "This isn't right, it's not what I want!" LOL.

For that reason, I'm sticking with a 'What if Oliver never became GA' scenario because it links in to the idea of Oliver's legacy. I'm guessing something about this dream/alt.world won't be right and they'll use it show Oliver needs to be GA.

Edited by Angel12d
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Where does it say Sara and Ray are the ones getting married? I keep reading on twitter it has already been spoiled but nobody is saying the source. Sara definitely isn't a real Sara if that's the case. I think Oliver would do a double take at his and Felicity's ex's together and him with Laurel. LOL Nightmare place for Oliver fans and Sara fans :p Maybe that's the plan? Ick us into being another fandom that wants to split the show ;) 

Edited by tarotx
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Chaser

Chaser

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It will probably play out (if they are talented enough) as one of those episodes that makes you questions which is the real reality and which is the dream ala Buffy being in an insane asylum 

Haha...they aren't talented enough. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)
6 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Where does it say Sara and Ray are the ones getting married? I keep reading on twitter it has already been spoiled but nobody is saying the source. Sara definitely isn't a real Sara if that's the case. I think Oliver would do a double take at his and Felicity's ex's together and him Laurel. LOL Nightmare place for Oliver fans and Sara fans :p Maybe that's the plan? Ick us into being another fandom that wants to split the show ;) 

I've not read anything about Sara and Ray. I'm sure it would have been posted here if it had been confirmed. I bet someone is messing around tbh.

I can't even picture it. Just...no. No.

Edited by Angel12d
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Sakura12

Sakura12

I don't see how Sara and Ray getting married is for Arrow fans. Sara and Ray are minor characters on Arrow. If this is a dream I can see it as more of Oliver's real world bleeding through the dream. Ray, Deathstroke, Diggle and Felicity showing up in his what if he never went on the Gambit dream would make him question it because he met all of them after the Gambit. 

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tarotx

tarotx

I don't like the idea of Ray being shoehorned to Sara. But it does seem to be a thing on LOT this season but I don't see it as an arrow wedding. If it's a wedding it's on LOT.  But I think Oliver and Speedy will leave the "dream" world on Arrow but Sara not until the beginning of LOT. I think she's going to have Ray talk her down. I don't know why that is a thing but it's also more than rumored to happen when Sara goes up against Darhk in the LOT season 2 premiere.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I think I heard something that Sara and Ray are going to clash on LoT. I thought it was more that Sara gets chosen as the leader over him. I don't think they'll have those two get married. This seems more like a because comics thing. Oliver marries Laurel but it's all bad dream. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Why are people even assuming this Ray/Sara stuff is even Arrow related? They are currently filming 3 episodes for the crossover  (technically down to 2ish, since Arrow is mostly over).

Isn't it more likely that wh as tever weirdness is going on with Ray/Sara + Wedding is on LoT?

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tarotx

tarotx

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why are people even assuming this Ray/Sara stuff is even Arrow related? They are currently filming 3 episodes for the crossover  (technically down to 2ish, since Arrow is mostly over).

Isn't it more likely that wh as tever weirdness is going on with Ray/Sara + Wedding is on LoT?

 

I guess because LOT is filming on the Mansion location. I have no idea where the Ray and Sara marriage rumor originated from though. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I think the rumor only started because of the wedding talk on Arrow and the fact that Ray is in the mansion as well. We're not even sure if there is an actual wedding in the first place. We've just seen characters in black dresses and a bar. It could just be a party that the Queens seem to like throwing for every occasion. I remember making fun of Oliver for his solution to everything was to throw a party at it. 

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