Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, looptab said:

So there's just one Barry - who has grown in the alternate reality, but has all his memories from the original one? Am I getting this right?

Yes. I added some more thoughts on my previous post, but yeah I think that's how it works.

[looptab]

4 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

his consciousness snaps back to where he started,

Wait, back to where he started, as in..?

[Starfish35]

Just now, looptab said:

Wait, back to where he started, as in..?

As in present day. 

[dtissagirl]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In June, GG had tweeted that the title of The Flash S3 premiere is "Flashpoint," but that it would be their own version of the comics Flashpoint story. 

Right. The problem I'm having here is we're missing a very important piece of information so far: WHY are they doing flashpoint on TV? What's the endgame of doing it on TV?

In the comics, that arc had super specific endgames [that were mostly business-oriented, btw]:
1. Incorporate all of the Wildstorm and Vertigo characters into the main DC line
2. Eliminate the multiple universe mess they had going on
3. Reboot all books to #1 issues existing in a single united universe to boost sales and catch the attention of new readers who wouldn't touch a multiverse with a 10 foot pole
4. De-age a whole bunch of characters, make them "grittier" and possibly clinically depressed and with notions that romance is terrible for you, because that's what Didio believed new readers coming from live action media wanted
5. CREATE A PERMANENT* NEW REALITY that had many similarities to the old one, but wasn't the old one

* And by permanent I mean it lasted 5 years and DC killed it a couple of months ago. LOL.

So. Is the point on TV to create a new reality permanently that sorta looks like the old one, but isn't? Or is it just to mess around with alt.realities for kicks and then go back to what it was before?

[apinknightmare]

Not sure which I hate more: Barry or time travel

[looptab]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

As in present day. 

Oh, ok, duh! Thank you. This stuff is confusing af, haha.

[dtissagirl]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Not sure which I hate more: Barry or time travel

It's like they think Barry is Donnie Darko, but he's actually the creepy bunny.

[looptab]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Not sure which I hate more: Barry or time travel

I'm facing the same conundrum at the moment. Fucking Barry.

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, Carrie Ann said:

One reason I lean toward this boyfriend situation being Flashpoint related--whether he's Barry or someone else--is because of the sort of odd and abrupt way the reconciliation story died off so close to the end of last season. I suspect that when breaking out the season-long story, they were planning to have them reunite, but once the larger EP group decided how far-reaching Flashpoint would be, I wonder whether that's when they decided how they wanted it to affect O/F this season. Had they reconciled, it would have been incredibly frustrating for O/F fans and non-fans alike to pull them apart again because of Flashpoint. But if they did want to return them to the S1/2 dynamic, and to give them more storytelling fuel to drag it out for even longer, then FP would be just the tool to do that.

So anyway, yeah, for now I lean pretty strongly toward the idea that in the new timeline, Oliver and Felicity were never together, but both have feelings for each other that have presumably continued to grow/deepen despite whatever other relationship(s) Felicity had/has. And Flashpoint will have erased their history since at least S3, but possibly since Barry visited in S2 (why would he have visited, given the changes to his life? not a clue, but he obviously did). Honestly, that plus the possibility of either fully reverting back to the original timeline or at least recapturing their memories of it, would be my ideal scenario w/r/t the new boyfriend. My worst-case scenario is basically what @apinknightmare suggested--that they're just going to redo S3 stalling/angst/avoidance.

That's what Felicity 'carries' with her; the knowledge of what her and Oliver were.

[Ophanim]

RE: O/F in this season, if Oliver gets LI (later in stories, or maybe Sara if flashpoint had some influence) I think then there is real  possibility/desire by TPTB to "cancel" Olicity. I honestly believe it all depends on how SA and EBR will play scenes between each other - only then we will get some idea in what direction they as characters are planning to go. On BF front, I love Felicity more than I care about Oliver (I know, I know... this is story about him bla bla... but I love Felicity and  stayed because F, their chemistry was just bonus), so as long as she is in picture, I am in as viewer.

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, looptab said:

I'm facing the same conundrum at the moment. Fucking Barry.

Will he ever stop being the worst? I need someone to know about what he did just so they can hopefully (finally) say WHAT THE EFF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

[Proteus]

Barry being Felicitys boyfriend makes no sense to me. I doubt that'll happen. He has his own show and issues to deal with.

[apinknightmare]

If only his issues stayed on his own show. 

[looptab]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Will he ever stop being the worst? I need someone to know about what he did just so they can hopefully (finally) say WHAT THE EFF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

We can keep hoping, haha.

20 minutes ago, Chaser said:

That's what Felicity 'carries' with her; the knowledge of what her and Oliver were.

That's super sad, but I like it.

[calliope1975]

31 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Not sure which I hate more: Barry or time travel

 

31 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

So. Is the point on TV to create a new reality permanently that sorta looks like the old one, but isn't? Or is it just to mess around with alt.realities for kicks and then go back to what it was before?

I don't know that they have a logical end goal beyond - they did Flashpoint in the comics and we want to do it, too, even though it doesn't really make sense and just confirms, once again, that Barry is The Worst. If Barry hadn't screwed up 100 other times, this could be a compelling story line. Instead, it's That's So Barry! 

SCDD both got me excited and depressed for Arrow. That's about normal. Why, oh why, couldn't my brain decide to fall in love with one of the Law & Order shows? Oh, no, I have to fixate on the crappily written, angst fueled Arrow. 

[Password]

The more I read about the Flashpoint episodes the more weary I get. We'll see exactly how much change takes place but I have to say... I must remove myself from social media. 

I've always thought a what-if episode or arc would be interesting on Arrow but not permanent changes. I'm past caring about Barry but I am worried about what on earth the writers are going to do with his actions. 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

-- On what they're doing for the 100th episode, MG: "Well, you know, it's interesting, our 100th episode is 508. Turns out, 508 will be chapter 2 of our three-part crossover. So the 100th episode is going to be the middle part of the crossover. Uh, and then episode 9 is our midseason finale. So we're kinda designing things to be like a hundredth - two-episode hundredth episode celebration, the bigness of our mega crossover, and the bigness of our midseason finale. So it's actually timed kinda perfectly."

MG is not a fan of clarity. What is he saying, simply that 508 and 509 are big episodes (the crossover and the mid season finale always are) or that they are closely connected and could be a one two-part episode? Which doesn't make much sense since there's LOT finishing up the crossover before 509. Or is he just not saying anything at all?

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

MG is not a fan of clarity. What is he saying, simply that 508 and 509 are big episodes (the crossover and the mid season finale always are) or that they are closely connected and could be a one two-part episode? Which doesn't make much sense since there's LOT finishing up the crossover before 509. Or is he just not saying anything at all?

I get the sense from his quote that Arrow's 100th episode will be part of the crossover, and the ramifications of whatever happens will carry over to the mid-season finale. But the most likely thing is that 508 and 509 are big episodes because of the crossover/mid season finale, so it happens to be a happy coincidence that the 100th episode falls on the eighth episode, right in the middle of all of it. 

[Guest]

Barry is the worst. But he's not the worst in a Britta Perry kind of way where it's a running joke and you love her anyway. He's genuinely the worst. 

As for O/F, I really don't think they're cancelling or ending them for good. I do think they're putting them on hold though and both Oliver and Felicity will have love interests this season because nothing says love of your life like being with other people. At least according to the writers who thought sister swapping was a good idea. LMAO what a mess.

I guess I'm mostly concerned what this is gonna do to Felicity's character tbh.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Guest

[Password]

What I'm hearing from the writers sounds like "Felicity has so much to deal with emotionally. Havenrock really shook her and she'll be dealing with the aftermath for the entire season. So we thought what better time to introduce a new LI."

I'm a little bitter. 

[thegirlsleuth]

I think Guggenheim made the statement about 508/509 BOTH being the 100th episodes because there was a lot of comments--including from Stephen Amell--that the 100th episode should be just about Arrow. So now we have the 100th episode and the bonus 100th episode, which is not actually how counting works.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I find it a bit hard to reconcile what Emily said about Felicity's emotional state (she made it sound a pretty big deal) and what MG said about Felicity making innuendos like in season 1-2. Did anyone else wonder about that? About what "version" of Felicity we are likely to see..

[kismet]

2 hours ago, Carrie Ann said:

One reason I lean toward this boyfriend situation being Flashpoint related--whether he's Barry or someone else--is because of the sort of odd and abrupt way the reconciliation story died off so close to the end of last season. I suspect that when breaking out the season-long story, they were planning to have them reunite, but once the larger EP group decided how far-reaching Flashpoint would be, I wonder whether that's when they decided how they wanted it to affect O/F this season. Had they reconciled, it would have been incredibly frustrating for O/F fans and non-fans alike to pull them apart again because of Flashpoint. But if they did want to return them to the S1/2 dynamic, and to give them more storytelling fuel to drag it out for even longer, then FP would be just the tool to do that.

So anyway, yeah, for now I lean pretty strongly toward the idea that in the new timeline, Oliver and Felicity were never together, but both have feelings for each other that have presumably continued to grow/deepen despite whatever other relationship(s) Felicity had/has. And Flashpoint will have erased their history since at least S3, but possibly since Barry visited in S2 (why would he have visited, given the changes to his life? not a clue, but he obviously did). Honestly, that plus the possibility of either fully reverting back to the original timeline or at least recapturing their memories of it, would be my ideal scenario w/r/t the new boyfriend. My worst-case scenario is basically what @apinknightmare suggested--that they're just going to redo S3 stalling/angst/avoidance.

I believe too that this BF is Flashpoint related as well. I do wonder if BA "fixed" his life and reversed his mother's death, there would be no need for him to have ever gone to SC ~ so in all likelihood he never would have met FS &OQ. Which makes him being the BF an odd choice. But yet it works for the shows to have him as the BF. I do agree that perhaps O/F were going to reconcile in s4, but because FP became a mandated across the 3 shows event, they backed off. It does explain some of the ways they handled situations post break-up and even the break-up itself. They knew they could wipe the slate clean, so they went for the worst tropes ever.

As of now, I'm going to assume that BA is the only one who knows about Flashpoint. Perhaps he shows up on FS's doorstep for advice (since his team shut him out) and she has no idea who he is. That then involves him revealing to her what happened, while asking for her advice. She helps restore his timeline, but of course she restoring it to something she has no idea about. She is essentially erasing the only timeline she knows (an AU timeline for us) to get back to what BA says is the real timeline. However, because she is not cognizant of what actual happened in real/our timeline - she makes some unilateral decisions and either does not undo some stuff or keeps stuff from her timeline. When things return to "normal" she carries the burden of knowing that she was responsible for people's lives being changed.

It does allow the writers to completely undo all of s3 & s4. Erase a lot of what I hated & some of what I loved. It could bring back Ras, Moira, Isabel, Blood, Slade and a whole bunch of goodies/baddies from previous seasons. Havenrock never happened. FS was never paralyzed. MM never became the head of the LoA. Perhaps Nyssa is still in line, with no marriage to OQ. OQ was never part of LoA. It is a tempting offer to writers. But as an audience member, I get confused because of the timeline that they erased and then restored what is the truth? What are the events & people that matter? Do the last 2.5 seasons of Arrow mean nothing? Do the first few episodes of Arrow mean nothing as well until FS "fixes" stuff? Are all the deaths still intact? Will we never know who really is dead and who really is alive? At what point should I believe it's ok to watch the show and know that what is happening will actually stick around and be the truth.

If the Flashpoint works and the intention is to literally bring Arrow back to s2 pre-BA meet. Then all of these speculations do fit together. Perhaps instead of MQ, OQ ran for mayor and won. Instead of Blood being the civic bad guy, the new cop/DA is the mastermind. In that scenario OQ & FS never dated, never lived together and were never engaged. So her having a boyfriend makes sense, her AU-self choosing not erase him from the timeline makes sense. Even LL's quasi plagiarized you can't do it not alone speech makes sense because OQ has not heard it every other month from FS & Dig for the past 3 years. Dig may have never reconciled with Lyla in time for Sara's conception. So it's not that Connor becomes Sara, but Sara legit never existed.  And if we rely on BA to fix Arrow's timeline, all he is going to know is the big events - so little things are going to get lost in the shuffle.

My head is starting to hurt thinking about the possibilities. On one hand, I'm excited that it means we might get Moira alive and well. Slade & Isabel can be put back on the table. BMD could never have happened. SL never died at the hand of TQ. On the other hand, I'm bummed that it means the last 2.5 years of faithfully watching and following Arrow mean nothing because the writers can cherry pick whatever they want to keep as true and erase whatever they choose to get rid of. And in that vein, I think it's possible that they may bring LL back to life. I don't think they will have her stay in SC, but maybe she will survive her injuries and leave. And I don't trust MG about "present day" because which timeline is he talking about. Present day in our timeline? Present Day in the FP timeline? Present day in the restored timeline?

Not only does this Flashpoint development completely eradicate the value and importance of death in the Flarrowverse. It basically opens the door for the writers to do whatever they want with no relation to the past. I invested 4 years into Arrow & its character development and it turns out the joke may be on me because a little over half of that may have never happened or will just be a deja vu moment for the characters. Or maybe it all happened, because time wants to happen. Or maybe LoT or the crossover will fix everything and muck it up at the same time.

[Chaser]

LOL I have to be the only one who is more positive coming out of SDCC than going in. I wasn't bummed out by much and things I wasn't looking forward to I now am. That's a plus for me.

I'm liking what I'm seeing about Superhero High. The Mayor's office with Thea/Felicity. The potential with Diggle. Felicity with Havenrock.

As for Olicity, no surprises about where they are starting the season. Partners. I'm so looking forward to this fight scene and them working the new recruits together.

Felicity's boyfriend. I think its Barry. Like CarrieAnn said, it fits with the seemingly sudden change in direction at the end of the last season. The kiss in the Flash sizzle reel. Her appearance in 3x02. Possibly Barry's voice in the Arrow sizzle reel. I see this as potentially a good thing for Olicity. It's screams short term. Temp love interests that start early make me happy (they didn't even mention the reporter lady for whatever that is worth).

The only thing I didn't like was KC, but the more I think about everything the more I think it will be nothing much.

[dtissagirl]

I'm more positive too. It's not Arrow, it's Barry.

But also, I was reading all the transcriptions tv-echo posted [YOU ARE THE BEST], and while we were given a full storyarc concept for Oliver -- wants to save the city, is garbage Mayor, needs help vigilante-ing so he can become a better Mayor -- we got very little re: what's the season arc for Felicity/Diggle/Thea/Lance. They all talked emotions a lot, but very very little plot. Curtis got more of an arc tease than them. I'm gonna assume this is all because Flashpoint.

[TrueMyth]

41 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I find it a bit hard to reconcile what Emily said about Felicity's emotional state (she made it sound a pretty big deal) and what MG said about Felicity making innuendos like in season 1-2. Did anyone else wonder about that? About what "version" of Felicity we are likely to see..

Emily also said something about her cracking jokes in public and crying in private.  Felicity can be pretty masterful at compartmentalizing emotion and using humor as a shield.  The question for me will be how many of those private moments are we going to see our is this something that Emily will be trying to play in subtext?  Wendy also mentioned Felicity being affected and wanting to play that, so I'm hoping we'll see SOMETHING of Felicity's private feelings.

On Flashpoint, I go back and forth, because I really do enjoy well done time travel.  If Barry is going to "fix" Flashpoint universe at the end of the first episode, in someways, I could get behind the first episode of Arrow taking place in a bubble of that new universe.  What I'd like to to see would be Felicity and Oliver being mostly good partners in the lair, dealing with the criminal of the week or whatever, then one of the final scenes be Felicity heading home, only to have Oliver there, and they kiss and we find out, they DID get married last year in this reality!!!  Only to have the time wave wash over and "correct" and now Felicity is with a different guy, a stranger we don't know, and she gets a call from Barry saying he really needs some advice.

I mean, that would be horribly painful, but it would be a wink to the Olicity fans on the same order as the fake marriage.

The real problem with it though, would be just how tied up it is with The Flash.  I do agree that you should NOT have to watch The Flash to understand the plot of Arrow.  I agree that Barry being the temp-BF and most of the meaningful scenes happening on Arrow is a better way to manage it.

[kismet]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Not sure which I hate more: Barry or time travel

The thing is this Flashpoint story is its not even time travel. It's time fuckery. It's cherry picking what to undo from a timeline and characters that you spent 4 years creating, nurturing and molding. It's messing with everything and nothing all at the same time. At this point, all speculation is valid. Spoilers are essentially useless. Until we see how long FP is going to last and how long standing the effects are, there really is no point - since everything can change. Not even current truths of the past 2.5 years are valid or necessarily still accurate. It's a world of unknown right now for the Flarrowverse.

Time Travel is far more complex & delicate. It serves a narrative purpose. What Barry did was selfishly go back and unhinge the dimensions of time because he missed his Mommy. I've lost people I've loved dearly and were taken away too soon. I would never alter the entire universe to get them back. I certainly wouldn't try 2 years in a row. Especially after the costly events of the first attempt. And if I was considering it, I would probably bounce the idea off of people I know & trust. Not just lie to them and set my plan in motion. I'm choosing to hate Barry.

[way2interested]

Yeah, count me in on the positive team. Other than the looming feeling of a secret Flashpoint-themed twists that might be coming, everything basically Arrow related I'm up for for the season. I'm less happy about the rather vague descriptions we have on things (Lance is alright, right?), but everything that has actually been revealed so far I've liked.

P.S. Since I first brought up the whole crack theory of Barry and Felicity being in a relationship because of Flashpoint but said it probably wouldn't happen, if it does, do I still have to eat a hat?

[SmallScreenDiva]

20 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm gonna assume this is all because Flashpoint.

That's what I'm getting, too. I'm guessing they can't tease much about their actual arcs because what we're gonna see in the beginning is not going to jibe with later. Although how come Oliver has a definite arc? Why isn't he going to be affected as much as Felicity and Diggle? (Or maybe he is, who knows). I'd also love to get the "why" of Flashpoint, like you mentioned above @dtissagirl. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[Carrie Ann]

8 minutes ago, way2interested said:

P.S. Since I first brought up the whole crack theory of Barry and Felicity being in a relationship because of Flashpoint but said it probably wouldn't happen, if it does, do I still have to eat a hat?

I vote no hat-eating for anyone for anything related to Flashpoint because it is all so WTF that I feel like every theory is potentially accurate while also very ridiculous.

[kismet]

After thinking about Flashpoint more, it actually made me a little more positive to Arrow's new season. Because a lot of what I hate will probably disappear between 501-Crossover. I was hating the direction of the show with all the newbie masks, OQ being dumbed down again, Dig being AWOL, O/F being trashed and yet manipulated for audience retention. And all the major characters arc being buried under newbie prop. But in all likelihood, it won't matter because nothing stays or lasts in the Arrow world. Barry has basically helped fix all my problems with his selfish run through time & space.

I fully expect FS's character to have no problem returning to a more lighthearted comic relief after Havenrock, because I fully believe Havenrock never happened. It's going to be one of the things FP fixes. I have experienced these writers for 4 years now, there is no way they are going to give FS an emotionally heavy, guilty conscience and redemption arc over Havenrock. EBR might want it and would hit it out of the park. But the writers want no part of that. They nuked Havenrock for reactionary intentions - look how cool our plots can be! They wanted to join the Cool Kids of TV writers that set off nukes. IMO, its a naive expectation to imagine that this group of writers are going to follow through with an actual story on the emotional end of that catastrophic event and forced choice by FS. 

[looptab]

I'm positive too! There's some stuff here and there that bothers me some, but overall I'm good about it. :)

[tarotx]

So is Oliver's new costume the one Old Oliver wore in Legends 2046? 

[wonderwall]

11 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

I vote no hat-eating for anyone for anything related to Flashpoint because it is all so WTF that I feel like every theory is potentially accurate while also very ridiculous.

....What did I ever do to you???

Hat eating should be for every scenario :p

[bijoux]

7 minutes ago, kismet said:

After thinking about Flashpoint more, it actually made me a little more positive to Arrow's new season. Because a lot of what I hate will probably disappear between 501-Crossover. 

I would honestly hate that. If writers pull shit, they need to deal with that shit.

As for Havenrock, it wasn't just EBR who mentioned that, WM did as well. So it will be addressed in some way.

[kismet]

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

As for Havenrock, it wasn't just EBR who mentioned that, WM did as well. So it will be addressed in some way.

Yes, when they erase it from the timeline :)

[tv echo]

Havenrock was mentioned by Brian Ford Sullivan and MG (if jbuffyangel is to be believed), as well as EBR...

Quote

-- On Jul. 22, 2016, Brian Ford Sullivan tweeted: "Just to add (and it's #SDCC so I'm feeling spicy), there seems to be a narrative building that with all these new castings, we've lost ... sight of our core characters Dig, Felicity, Thea, Lance, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, these new people ... are giving us an opportunity to see them in a different light and tell stories we couldn't have without them. I would love to give you ... 'news' on what's happening with Dig, Felicity, Thea, etc. this season but there's big spoilers involved. Trust me when I say that ... what's happening with them is in keeping with their respective emotional fallouts from last season, whether it be Dig killing Andy, ... Felicity and Havenrock, Lance losing Laurel, etc. Big stuff is coming for all of them. Can't wait for you to see! #ArrowSeason5." (BFS tweets, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- SDCC (Jul. 22, 2016): jbuffyangel: "I didn’t even have to prompt him [Marc Guggenheim] for this one you guys. He just gave it to me. He said they are going to deal with Felicity and Havenrock. He said that it won’t be episode after episode of Felicity 'wringing her hands' BUT they are going to dig deep on it. It’s going to be a HUGE part of her arc this year. BIG."  (jbuffyangel recap of conversation with MG, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

Edited July 25, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Since apparently Oliver's most important relationship is and, according to SA, has always been with Star City, we need a new shipper name - so how about...

#Starliver

Any shippers? ... Anyone? Anyone?

ETA: I hope you realize that I'm joking. ;)

Edited July 25, 2016 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

Since apparently Oliver's most important relationship is and, according to SA, has always been with Star City, we need a new shipper name - so how about...

#Starliver

Any shippers? ... Anyone? Anyone?

Olicity is good too....

[kismet]

Can the Flashpoint get us back Starling City? Because I think Starling City seemed like a better place to be. I'll be bummed if one of OQ's first motions is not to return the city to its original name.

Also now that we know TQ & FS have been doing most of the mayoral work, the statue is beginning to make sense. I can see how those 2 would want to honor their fallen friend. Meanwhile, I can never imagine OQ coming up with that idea. OQ probably doesn't even know its being built.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, kismet said:

 

Can the Flashpoint get us back Starling City? Because I think Starling City seemed like a better place to be

 

They're both shit holes. 

[kismet]

Starling wasn't a shit hole until OQ returned, so we can FP and erase his actions that helped cause it to become a shit hole.

It was a corrupt place for sure, but after MM's earthquake machine it became a living shit hole - that only got worse with Slade/Blood.

I would have lived in Starling City in s1/2, just not in the Glades. But after that, you're pretty dumb or desperate to still be living in Star City.

[dtissagirl]

Olivity, which is basically a typo. Sounds about right.

[wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

They're both shit holes. 

Yes. Unfortunately they're OUR shit holes :p

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, kismet said:

Starling wasn't a shit hole until OQ returned, so we can FP and erase his actions that helped cause it to become a shit hole.

It was a corrupt place for sure, but after MM's earthquake machine it became a living shit hole - that only got worse with Slade/Blood.

I would have lived in Starling City in s1/2, just not in the Glades. But after that, you're pretty dumb or desperate to still be living in Star City.

The Markov device going off wasn't a result of Oliver's actions. The damage would only have been more.substantial if you removed him from the picture. Slade and Ra's were there because of him, yes. But DD showed up because of the hellmouth. Again, without Oliver, who would have stopped him? The greenery in his underground bubble was lush though, I'll admit that.

[kismet]

Just now, bijoux said:

The Markov device going off wasn't a result of Oliver's actions. The damage would only have been more.substantial if you removed him from the picture. Slade and Ra's were there because of him, yes. But DD showed up because of the hellmouth. Again, without Oliver, who would have stopped him? The greenery in his underground bubble was lush though, I'll admit that.

Yes but OQ's return was perhaps the trigger that initiated the sequence of events. Delay his return or alter how he returned and we have a completely different story. Have him bring in FS earlier or keep Dig out. If he had never targeted his Father's List, MM may have chosen to use the Markov device at another time or in another capacity.

It could get really crazy, when you think about if you undo one tether how different everything can be. And therefore when you have to piece it all back together to the "right" way its virtually impossible. BA didn't just break or alter the timeline, he absolutely shattered it.

All I'm saying is Starling City did not seem like that much of a shit hole until OQ returned. So it might not be his fault, but he was unwittingly the cause of it's demise. Or at least their could be an argument made that links his return to its downfall. And I just want Starling City back. Star City has always sucked.

[tv echo]

From Seat42F interview with MG, as LoT EP, at SDCC (Jul. 23, 2016)
(video posted by tv echo on page 180 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

-- On whether we'll see Connor Hawke Diggle again in LoT, MG: "Um, you know, we love the actor.  Uh, it is more than possible.  We actually - we were in the writers room the other day talking about a story set in Star City 2047, like a year after episode 6 last year.  Um, and I'm really excited about - the idea is awesome, definitely something that I want to do this year...  As with all things on all shows, we just need  like to find the right time, the right opportunity, but yeah, that's totally like something we would love to do."

As previously mentioned, MG also said that Flashpoint will not affect LoT "in the near term" because that show already deals with time travel and he didn't know how to work that with Flashpoint, but "in the longerish term, Flash will definitely have a big impact on Legends, so there's a - there'll be a storyline that'll start to come into play that you'll see a point of connection, but not at the early going."

Edited July 25, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This was retweeted by SA - S4 suit versus S5 suit...

[tarotx]

8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

This was retweeted by SA - S4 suit versus S5 suit...

 

I guess it is similar but a little bit different? 

[kismet]

Sleeves is my 2nd favorite spoiler to come out of SDCC. The 1st being confirmation of Bratva actually coming to Arrow.