Spoiler Discussion Thread

[looptab]

YAY us. :)
 

 

• and Laurel's last words are: "I need you to promise me something . . ."

That right there is BMD level awfulness potential.

Edited April 7, 2016 by looptab

[BkWurm1]

Hello page one thousand! I don't know whether to say congratulations, or sorry mods. Both?

Yep, both.  :D 

[Sakura12]

The poor mods must have gone insane yesterday/this morning. This board was busy. 

[calliope1975]

Why would they let some random stranger take up the BC mantle when they would never let Sara use it? 

 

Could it be Madison dressing up in some hero worship vigilante thing? Have we ever had a rando member of the public take on one of our peep's outfits in homage? (Not counting Ra's evil extortion attempt.) Maybe Nyssa takes her in to train her and starts a baby LOA. 

[thegirlsleuth]

I'm putting this here because I think I heard that Caity is going to be in the last episode of the season, but what if the promise Laurel asked Oliver to make is to have her sister take up the Black Canary mantle? By making it Laurel's dying wish they may try to be returning to Caity becoming BC and the fans being ok with it.

[Sakura12]

I suppose since she's dead, I'll pretend people are going hero worship Arrow's Black Canary when I really don't think she's done all that much to be that well known. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't think there's a force on earth that can make the fans be okay with someone, especially Sara, replacing Laurel as BC, LOL.

I think the fact that they are putting "Black Canary" on the grave means it's done, BC died with Laurel.

I have no idea what the promise might be but since they already said it will be something that will be important in S5 I'm thinking it could be relevant to Oliver's journey, for example something connected to him outing himself as the GA and be a hero in the open, not hiding anymore.

I also don't know if the writers themselves decided what the promise was exactly, LOL

[looptab]

Could it be Madison dressing up in some hero worship vigilante thing? Have we ever had a rando member of the public take on one of our peep's outfits in homage? (Not counting Ra's evil extortion attempt.) Maybe Nyssa takes her in to train her and starts a baby LOA. 

Given the last article posted in the media thread, I hope to God the person in the wig is not Felicity. I didn't have that impression at all after reading WM's comment on how the death will impact Felicity, but now I fear it, because if there's something this show can do, it's doing awful things. Plus 419 is written by Wendy and Beth, and we know what those two got us.

Edited April 7, 2016 by looptab

[Artsda]

Since they mentioned a change of costume possibly for Sara, hopefully she gets her black outfit back. Plus Oliver did basically say she was the black canary and it was her path, not Laurel's.

 

Wow page 1000! Congrats! Is there any other thread with that many pages on the forums?

[lemotomato]

Given the last article posted in the media thread, I hope to God the person in the wig is not Felicity. I didn't have that impression at all after reading WM's comment on how the death will impact Felicity, but now I fear it, because if there's something this show can do, it's doing awful things. Plus 419 is written by Wendy and Beth, and we know what those two got us.

They can't be that stupid, can they? I mean, they have to know how much that would piss off everyone, right? 

[Midnight Lullaby]

It wouldn't piss me off as much as make me laugh hysterically. Don't go there writers, please.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[HighwayFlower]

Laurel asked Oliver to promise something when she expected to live and recover, so it would not be a dying wish type of promise.

[Carrie Ann]

I rewatched that last scene with Laurel and Oliver to try and figure out the promise. I don't get it.

 

She didn't know she was going to die. She told him he is the love of her life. He asked why she was telling him this and she said anything could happen. If it wasn't followed by the promise me something, I would believe she was trying to get back together with him. 

 

None of the obvious things I consider make sense to me, and the only possibility that sort of fits would be if she asked him to promise that he would tell someone everything about his 5 years "on the island," since she and Thea both commented on it earlier in the episode? It would give them a sort of framework for all of the flashbacks, and since they originally had a 5-year-plan for the show, it would make sense that him talking to someone would take place in S5. But I think that's all pretty much wishful thinking.

[apinknightmare]

Laurel asked Oliver to promise something when she expected to live and recover, so it would not be a dying wish type of promise.

 

It could've been. She said that she realized anything could happen, so I guess she could've said, "In case this happens again and I do bite it..."

 

It just happened way sooner than she anticipated, haha. 

[hogwash]

Maybe she told him to give up his dream of being a house husband and keep being the Green Arrow, the light, beacon, symbol, etc. the city needs. Sounds right up their alley.

Where is this Felicity as BC stuff coming from??

[looptab]

They can't be that stupid, can they? I mean, they have to know how much that would piss off everyone, right? 

I sure hope they do.

[apinknightmare]

Where is this Felicity as BC stuff coming from??

 

Not trying to get into fantalk, but it's a theory being floated by the Felicity & Friends contingent. And I hope no one on this show is stupid enough to go there. I agree that since The Black Canary is written on her headstone, it ends there. 

[NumberCruncher]

Where is this Felicity as BC stuff coming from??

A click-bait article that The Hollywood Reporter published. It's nonsense, but people are flipping out.

[apinknightmare]

A click-bait article that The Hollywood Reporter published. It's nonsense, but people are flipping out.

 

Oh, was it there too? Yikes.

[NumberCruncher]

Not trying to get into fantalk, but it's a theory being floated by the Felicity & Friends contingent. And I hope no one on this show is stupid enough to go there. I agree that since The Black Canary is written on her headstone, it ends there.

Also considering that MG has stated (quite adamantly multiple times) Felicity will never have a mask, I think it's pretty safe to say they won't ever go there. I don't remember which article it was that someone posted last night but MG also specifically kept Felicity out of the grave because she was only one of two non-masked characters on the show so it really does seem like they realize the importance of having a good mix of characters.

[tarotx]

Maybe we will see Black Canary's influence on the youth of Star. Madison can play younger so maybe Black Canary seems cool and inspiring and it almost gets Madison killed trying to be her. Perhaps at the end of the episode Madison's character decides to be a lawyer instead?

[hogwash]

That's a relief. I thought I missed something. Really don't want to see a repeat of Laurel's S03 arc. I'm hoping 419 puts a nail in the coffin (sorry) of the BC thing like the LOA episode did for the LOA.

[looptab]

I don't remember which article it was that someone posted last night but MG also specifically kept Felicity out of the grave because she was only one of two non-masked characters on the show so it really does seem like they realize the importance of having a good mix of characters.

Does anyone remember which article that was? I don't think I have read that. Was it posted in the media thread?

[NumberCruncher]

Does anyone remember which article that was? I don't think I have read that. Was it posted in the media thread?

Yes, lemotomato posted it over in the media thread.

Edited April 7, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[looptab]

Yes, lemotomato posted it over in the media thread.

Thank you, I'll go check it :)

Eta:couldn't find it :/

Edited April 7, 2016 by looptab

[NumberCruncher]

Thank you, I'll go check it :)

Eta:couldn't find it :/

It's here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-laurel-dies-black-canary-881454

[statsgirl]

I really hope the Black Canary dies with Laurel. it's the least they can do for her now.

 

I rewatched that last scene with Laurel and Oliver to try and figure out the promise. I don't get it.

 

She didn't know she was going to die. She told him he is the love of her life. He asked why she was telling him this and she said anything could happen. If it wasn't followed by the promise me something, I would believe she was trying to get back together with him. 

She said that she realized anything can happen (i.e. they could die at any moment) and that's why she said it then.  I don't think she was trying to get back together with him because he's still in love with Felicity.  She should have waited a few more months if she wanted him back.

 

Oh, you mean why did MG put it in?  To screw with viewers until they figure out what they're going to use the promise for.

 

My original theory was that they have a play of their own going on against DD. I'm starting to lean a bit towards her pseudo adopting him and comforting him since his other kid is not around to do it. I'm still leaning towards the first option. Because it seems like Oliver will be the voice of reason, while the rest of the team goes off the rails in various degrees. So Felicity turning vicious and out for blood could make sense.

I hope they keep Felicity away from a daughterly relationship with Quentin because that will leave the impression that Felicity has taken not only the love interest and Sara's friend roles from Laurel, she's also taking the Quentin's daughter role.

 

For the wedding, I hope it's Digg who walks her down the aisle.

 

I missed this too, but now it makes perfect sense to me -- LoT will answer the time travel problem, Flash will answer the alternate realities problem, and Arrow will actually answer the Lazarus Pit problem. Most likely by finding out there are no more pits, or by deciding not to LP Laurel if they find one.

 

That's... kind of insane how Laurel's death will affect the storyline more than she ever did in life.

LOL   But isn't that what Tommy's death did too?  And Sara's until they needed her back?

 

Diggle's shame, Quentin's hurt, story propping .... fridging.

[Nagevs]

For the wedding, I hope it's Digg who walks her down the aisle.

 

 

 

I'd actually like Donna to walk Felicity down the aisle and Digg to be Oliver's best man.

[bijoux]

I really think the promise will turn out to be no big deal. Oliver, don't blame yourself for this. It was my choice.

 

Could it be Madison dressing up in some hero worship vigilante thing? Have we ever had a rando member of the public take on one of our peep's outfits in homage? (Not counting Ra's evil extortion attempt.) Maybe Nyssa takes her in to train her and starts a baby LOA. 

I do think Madison is the most obvious answer for the woman in the suit. Never thought about how Nyssa would react to that. I'm really looking forward to an update on Nyssa since she dismantled the LoA. Has she been on a cruise around the world?

 

I'd actually like Donna to walk Felicity down the aisle and Digg to be Oliver's best man.

Ditto. Unless Felicity choses to walk down that aisle alone, Donna's the one who should do it.

[BkWurm1]

None of the obvious things I consider make sense to me, and the only possibility that sort of fits would be if she asked him to promise that he would tell someone everything about his 5 years "on the island," since she and Thea both commented on it earlier in the episode? It would give them a sort of framework for all of the flashbacks, and since they originally had a 5-year-plan for the show, it would make sense that him talking to someone would take place in S5. But I think that's all pretty much wishful thinking.

Maybe he starts therapy!  That would be a welome twist.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[popgoesculture]

 

I'd actually like Donna to walk Felicity down the aisle and Digg to be Oliver's best man.

 

I have no idea how the subject started, but Dig as Oliver's best man makes the most sense... since the show basically erased the friendship between Digg and Felicity. (The first two seasons, I would've said they were the stronger friendship. The last two have definitely changed that.)

 

But maybe things will change with Laurel gone? I'm interested in seeing how this shakes up how the team relates to one another, particularly since I think Digg and maybe Felicity will be hit hardest by the guilt (Digg for Andy, Felicity for not being there as Overwatch/ to stop them from reassembling that idiotic statute). 

[ComicFan777]

I think Digg and Thea will be the hardest hit with guilt.  Digg because he trusted Andy, and Thea because she didn't kill Malcolm.

[BkWurm1]

I hope they keep Felicity away from a daughterly relationship with Quentin because that will leave the impression that Felicity has taken not only the love interest and Sara's friend roles from Laurel, she's also taking the Quentin's daughter role.

 

Shrug.  Laurel and Sara are always going to be Lance's daughters but Sara is on another show and Laurel is dead.  There's nothing that Felicity is taking away.  Why can't she be friends or have scenes with the only other non mask on the show?  (Curtis IMO doesn't count since he actually IS destined for the mask)

[EmeraldArcher]

But maybe things will change with Laurel gone? I'm interested in seeing how this shakes up how the team relates to one another, particularly since I think Digg and maybe Felicity will be hit hardest by the guilt (Digg for Andy, Felicity for not being there as Overwatch/ to stop them from reassembling that idiotic statute). 

I think everyone will have guilt to some degree in this descending order: 1. Diggle perhaps having the most guilt because his actions directly impacted Darhk's re-magic-ing. 2. Thea, not only because she didn't kill Malcolm, but also because she didn't take a kill shot at Darhk in the prison. 3. Felicity, because she left the team and will be full of what-if's, but no specific focal point for her guilt. 4. Oliver and Quentin, I hope they have the least amount because they were shown coming to terms with Laurel's decision to be BC, especially Quentin, and knew she accepted the risks.

 

I'm actually really excited about seeing the dynamic among the team, especially because I think KC was the weakest actor within the group. I anticipate that there will be a different vibe, with less arm-crossing and sharp intakes of breath before speaking. Hopefully, there will be less unintentional vitriol directed toward Oliver, too.  I'm just hoping for more natural interactions among these friends and teammates. 

[EmeraldArcher]

 

I'm trying to figure out what's going on in this 2x19 picture, posted in Spoilers. Thea's looking at Oliver in concern, but he's looking at Felicity, and she's looking at the ground.  I really hope that they don't write Felicity as acerbic toward Oliver at the funeral.  She can be mad at the situation and mad about the violent lifestyle that claimed her friend's life, but I don't want her to lash out at Oliver the way she did when she was stressed about finding Ray.  They linked her frostiness toward Oliver then because she blamed herself for giving in completely to their relationship to the detriment of everything else. I almost dread her lashing out now because of the violence of the vigilante lifestyle that has cost them all so much, especially Laurel.  She alluded to her rejection of that violence in 4x17, so I hope they don't clumsily conflate everything so that she's bitter toward Oliver and blames him in any way.  An upside-down kiss can't fix everything.

[wonderwall]

Looking at the promo pictures...

I know 1000% now that the actors are going to murder me with their scenes. 419 looks absolutely heartbreaking. 

 

And it would've been A LOT BETTER if we didn't have a 3 week hiatus. WTF show?!

[apinknightmare]

I'm trying to figure out what's going on in this 2x19 picture, posted in Spoilers. Thea's looking at Oliver in concern, but he's looking at Felicity, and she's looking at the ground.  I really hope that they don't write Felicity as acerbic toward Oliver at the funeral.  

 

With SA's comment that this season is going to end with a more well-rounded or complete Oliver (I can't remember exactly how he worded it), I think that Felicity might withdraw into herself, and maybe blame herself, and Oliver's going to be the one who convinces her that there isn't anything to feel guilty about. I think he'll probably do that for everyone - be for them what they've always been for him. Maybe?

[AyChihuahua]

My guess is Felicity's just looking at the grave. Thea's trying to comfort Oliver and Oliver's staring at Felicity bc of all the luuuuuuuv. 

 

I don't THINK they'll have her be acerbic towards him at the funeral. 

[bijoux]

I'm hinestly surprised that they're picking up right where they left off. There's no logic to my reason, I just didn't expect it.

Crap, has Oliver now eulogized all of his old friends? And man, that scene with Lance is going to be rough.

[EmeraldArcher]

With SA's comment that this season is going to end with a more well-rounded or complete Oliver (I can't remember exactly how he worded it), I think that Felicity might withdraw into herself, and maybe blame herself, and Oliver's going to be the one who convinces her that there isn't anything to feel guilty about. I think he'll probably do that for everyone - be for them what they've always been for him. Maybe?

I can live with that.  I would rather have any anger directed at the appropriate people--the bad guys.  If she's going to feel guilty, I don't want that to manifest in anger directed at Oliver like it was earlier this season.  And, it would be great if Oliver could support others the same way he's been supported.

 

Awhile ago, I predicted that Felicity might be on the brink of darkness and Oliver brings her back.  I was trying to find a parallel between her and #Poppy, but even if there's no relationship between those two, I still think having Oliver's Light-with-a-capital-L dimmed a bit before he restores her hope would be interesting.

My guess is Felicity's just looking at the grave. Thea's trying to comfort Oliver and Oliver's staring at Felicity bc of all the luuuuuuuv.

I know--the more I stare at him, I mean the picture, I feel like he would stride over and kiss the living day lights out of her (if this were a fic).  I think they can all appreciate that life is too short to hold grudges against liars who lie about secret kids and stuff.  Besides, they have #Laurel'sBlessing so they're practically obligated to get back together STAT to fulfill her dying wish.

[Coop33]

With SA's comment that this season is going to end with a more well-rounded or complete Oliver (I can't remember exactly how he worded it), I think that Felicity might withdraw into herself, and maybe blame herself, and Oliver's going to be the one who convinces her that there isn't anything to feel guilty about. I think he'll probably do that for everyone - be for them what they've always been for him. Maybe?

 

I agree. I actually thought that this wonderful gif dtissagirl posted in the episode thread could symbolic of the direction they will each go in moving forward.

[ComicFan777]

Random thought: With talks of the looking for the pit, it made me think of Oliver/Felicity talk about the pit back in 4x5 - I got the impression back then that Felicity would use the pit because she doesn't want to say goodbye whereas Oliver thought it shouldn't be used. 

 

If Felicity is determined to find the pit to resurrect LL, do you think Oliver would discourage her and tell her that she needs to let go? or do you think his opinion has changed now?

Edited April 7, 2016 by ComicFan777

[dtissagirl]

I was surprised too that 419 picks up at the hospital, but it makes sense if they're gonna look for a Lazarus Pit. I mean, I *hope* that happens before Laurel's body is buried. Learn your lessons, show.

[apinknightmare]

Random thought: With talks of the looking for the pit, it made me think of Oliver/Felicity talk about the pit back in 4x5 - I got the impression back then that Felicity would use the pit because she doesn't want to say goodbye whereas Oliver thought it shouldn't be used. 

 

If Felicity is determined to find the pit to resurrect LL, do you think Oliver would discourage her and tell her that she needs to let go? or do you think his opinion has changed now?

 

After seeing the clusterfuck that happened with Sara and Thea, why they'd consider using one now is beyond me. I mean, I guess I can hand wave it since it's for Laurel and Laurel herself didn't seem to care very much about the side effects, but...jeez.

Edited April 7, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Midnight Lullaby]

I hope the episode will make me feel some sort of sad emotion because I really want to but I only feel indifference right now. Maybe I've been too indifferent to Laurel for too long but I felt they ridiculed her death and I blame that too for my inability to connect with what happened. First Darhk hit her with Oliver's arrows, then she humiliated herself fishing for I don't even know what with Oliver, then they made it look like Oliver killed her and that was the end. I still can't believe it, LOL

Oliver seems the calmer in those pictures and I love the idea of him for once making Felicity and Diggle accept the death and let go of their guilt.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[tarotx]

LOL some are back to thinking it was really William that died even though we just watched Laurel die :p (I don't know if you can read the link)

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheArrowCave.ArrowCW/permalink/947340775386322/

[statsgirl]

I see Thea inherited Laurel's buckles

Shrug.  Laurel and Sara are always going to be Lance's daughters but Sara is on another show and Laurel is dead.  There's nothing that Felicity is taking away.  Why can't she be friends or have scenes with the only other non mask on the show?  (Curtis IMO doesn't count since he actually IS destined for the mask)

They can share scenes as long as he doesn't become her pseudo-father and walk her down the aisle.  I think that's too soap opera for something not written by Shonda Rhimes.  I've always loved Quentin's relationship with Felicity but now that both Laurel and Sara are gone, I want them to be careful how they write his scenes with her.

 

With SA's comment that this season is going to end with a more well-rounded or complete Oliver (I can't remember exactly how he worded it), I think that Felicity might withdraw into herself, and maybe blame herself, and Oliver's going to be the one who convinces her that there isn't anything to feel guilty about. I think he'll probably do that for everyone - be for them what they've always been for him. Maybe?

I like the promo with Oliver trying to steady Digg for a change. I hope Oliver does become more complete by the end of the season but he can't be too complete, there still needs to be work left to be done for next season.

[nksarmi]

Ok I can just tell from those photos - the actual death didn't make me cry - but I'm going to cry for Quentin.  Damn it - I will need to watch this episode alone.

[catrox14]

Hello page one thousand! I don't know whether to say congratulations, or sorry mods. Both?

[apinknightmare]

So, given the flash forward scene and the spoiler pics, does Oliver just hang around until the cemetery dudes cover the coffin with dirt? Does he help them shovel? How freaking long is Felicity chilling in the back of the limo? I need answers.