Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ban1o]

mm some people are thinking Thea will get HIV lol. In the comics Mia Dearden slept with someone who them killed them self. Personally I highly doubt it. 

[jay741982]

So is it me or does MG throw out "Olicity" teases (which usually amount to nothing) when he senses fans are upset?

Like that's supposed to appease people. That annoys the heck out of me.

Yeah me too! Like we will have a smile at the Olicity Moment in next weeks episode or "We won't dislike" Olicity Interaction in 318. Dammit MG I want a nice decent length where they talk it out. Oliver lets her about how he wants to live she was his last thought before Dying etc

[Danny Franks]

mm some people are thinking Thea will get HIV lol. In the comics Mia Dearden slept with someone who them killed them self. Personally I highly doubt it. 

 

Thea and Mia are different people, despite the rhyming names. Mia was not Oliver Queen's sister, and Thea is not a teenage runaway who was abused by her father (yet, at least) and became a prostitute to survive. 

[Morrigan2575]

Thea and Mia are different people, despite the rhyming names. Mia was not Oliver Queen's sister, and Thea is not a teenage runaway who was abused by her father (yet, at least) and became a prostitute to survive. 

But, but COMICS!

[tv echo]

Here's my current speculation about 318 (which I agree could very well be "Public Enemy")...

 

By then, Quentin knows that Malcolm is alive and the person who had Sara murdered.  Unlike Dinah who abdicated responsibility to their daughter, Quentin is an angry parent who wants to track down and punish Malcolm himself.  Also, Malcolm is still Starling City's #1 most wanted criminal.  The Arrow is spotted fighting alongside Malcolm, or maybe Oliver is spotted talking to Malcolm in 317.   So in 318 Quentin sets up a police sting to capture the Arrrow in hopes he can get Malcolm's whereabouts from the Arrow.  Instead, they capture Roy in Arrow costume (who sacrifices himself to save Oliver).  But Quentin knows or finds out that Oliver is the real Arrow.  Oliver is forced to go underground.  Diggle goes into hiding with Lyla and Sara.  Roy is in police custody.  (Laurel is left off the hook because - cop's daughter.)  A visiting Mama Smoak is injured or ill.  Felicity is at the hospital with a police guard.  This scenario would explain why Mama Smoak doesn't interact with any characters other than Felicity.  I also think Mama Smoak has the outrageous 'hospital sex' line - perhaps upon regaining consciousness and hearing the doctor's diagnosis, she says something jokingly like, "well, I guess hospital sex is out."

 

MG said that 318 was a game changer and that Oliver would feel "overwhelmed".  Having Team Arrow scattered all over and wanted by the police would do it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by tv echo

[ban1o]

Haha I know thea is not the same as Mia Dearden but she's loosely inspired by her character. I just thought it was weird that people were thinking that

[tv echo]

MG implied that the "light" comment was not a passing of the love torch from Felicity to Laurel in regards to Oliver, but just to show the difference between Laurel and Sara (but who knows?)...

crochetscribe asked:
Is the 'light' comment to Laurel supposed to signify the end of Olicity as we know it, or is it showing us the difference between Laurel and Sara?
It’s the difference between Laurel and Sara.

[jay741982]

MG implied that the "light" comment was not a passing of the love torch from Felicity to Laurel in regards to Oliver, but just to show the difference between Laurel and Sara (but who knows?)...

I never thought the light comment was passing the torch at all though I know others did. That difference between Sara and Laurel is just NO

Here's my current speculation about 318 (which I agree could very well be "Public Enemy")...

 

By then, Quentin knows that Malcolm is alive and the person who had Sara murdered.  Unlike Dinah who abdicated responsibility to their daughter, Quentin is an angry parent who wants to track down and punish Malcolm himself.  Also, Malcolm is still Starling City's #1 most wanted criminal.  The Arrow is spotted fighting alongside Malcolm, or maybe Oliver is spotted talking to Malcolm in 317.   So in 318 Quentin sets up a police sting to capture the Arrrow in hopes he can get Malcolm's whereabouts from the Arrow.  Instead, they capture Roy in Arrow costume (who sacrifices himself to save Oliver).  But Quentin knows or finds out that Oliver is the real Arrow.  Oliver is forced to go underground.  Diggle goes into hiding with Lyla and Sara.  Roy is in police custody.  (Laurel is left off the hook because - cop's daughter.)  A visiting Mama Smoak is injured or ill.  Felicity is at the hospital with a police guard.  This scenario would explain why Mama Smoak doesn't interact with any characters other than Felicity.  I also think Mama Smoak has the outrageous 'hospital sex' line - perhaps upon regaining consciousness and hearing the doctor's diagnosis, she says something jokingly like, "well, I guess hospital sex is out."

 

MG said that 318 was a game changer and that Oliver would feel "overwhelmed".  Having Team Arrow scattered all over and wanted by the police would do it.

That's a good theory! I wonder what kind of Olicity scene or scenes we get In that episode if we won't dislike it Per MG

[chaos is welcome]

 

-- Asked if Laurel will get her own glass case so she doesn't have to carry her suit in a bag, MG says: "Keep watching."

From MG's tumblr list so kindly posted by TVEcho.  

 

NO.  FFS, just no. 

[Guest]

I don't care if Laurel gets her own glass case for her leather suit. I don't care if Laurel and Felicity become friends. I'm fine with both, as long as it's EARNED. And IMO, neither of those things have been. 

[Kordi]

On http://geekdad.com/2015/02/geek-channel-review-arrow-episode-312/ I read a very interesting speculation that I would like to share with you. Joey Mills wrote on "geekdad.com" on 7 february:

 

“[…] Ollie asks Malcolm to train him because Malcolm is the only one who can hope to defeat Ra’s. […] Ollie asks Malcolm to train him so that Ollie can help Malcolm reconnect to the people he cares about. Ollie will constantly be telling Malcolm that this is for Thea. He’ll be reminding Malcolm of Tommy and the father that Ollie knew Malcolm to be before Rebecca was murdered. All of this so that when the time is right, Malcolm can sacrifice himself and all he loves in order to defeat Ra’s.
That’s Ollie’s hope. But, he’s also a practical guy. If Malcolm can’t reconnect to his own humanity, if Malcolm has to be put down for real this time, who better equipped to do it than the 'student of the master'? Malcolm’s student. Ollie."

 

According to Mills, only Malcolm -not Oliver- can defeat Ra's, because Malcolm -not Oliver- was Ra's student, and (as Tatsu and Malcolm both said in 3x12) "only the student has any hope of defeating the master". I know, in 2x05 (?), some other League member was called Malcolm's master (I don't remember his name). However, it wouldn't take too much retconning to say that Malcolm had two masters and that one of them was Ra's himself, would it?

 

So we are going to see a story in which it will be Malcolm who fights the last battle with Ra's and defeats him - not Oliver. Oliver will be the one who "harnesses Malcolm's light". I imagine that Malcolm is going to get killed - so he dies as a redeemed villain/ antihero.

There are basically two reasons why I think Mill’s speculation is correct:

 

(A) On the Arrow Aftershow for episode 3x06 “Guilty”, SA explicitly said that Malcolm “is not evil”. And JB said in some interview (I can’t find the reference right now) that Malcolm loves Oliver like a son. IMO these comments indicate that we are really going to watch a Malcolm redemption arc.

 

(B) I somehow got the feeling that this season of Arrow is inspired by “STAR WARS: Return of the Jedi” with Oliver playing the part of “Luke”, Malcolm as a new “Darth Vader/ Anakin”, Ra’s as a sort of “Emperor” (and Thea as a kind of “Princess Leia”): (i) JB mentioned that the EPs first wanted to reveal Malcolm as Oliver’s father, but changed it later to Malcolm turning out to be Thea’s father. So they saw Oliver and Malcolm in some kind of father–son relation, but didn’t want to make this relation too obvious. (ii) Have you noticed how much SA loves the “Arrow Jedi” videos and “Light Saber Saturdays”? If not, take a look at his Facebook Page! He even made video of himself with a light saber and posted a foto of his office with this light saber on the table. I don’t think this is a coincidence. I do think this is a hint that Arrow is going STAR WARS…

 

I can already see it before my eyes: Oliver fighting with Malcolm while arguing with him like Luke did with Darth Vader: “Your thoughts betray you, Malcolm. I feel the good in you, the conflict.” :-) And then Malcolm will go after Ra’s… or something like that.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Kordi

[foreverevolving]

You know.. i find it very telling that were the day after the episode aired, and no one has yet to post the Canadian promo (which usually gets posted by the morning after an episode aired). I wonder if we'll see the Asian or NZ (which hasn't been posted in a couple of episodes) - i think those usually get posted by the end of the week?

[statsgirl]

I'd tell you about the Canadian promo but I had stopped watching by then.

 

I do think that Malcolm will have a redemptive moment before he dies. But I can't see the idiot that is Oliver right now playing such a long game.

 

And I'm sorry but she clearly doesn't really care all that much about her character. She just wants to be the lead, in every way that means, including being the love interest. Have you listened to that interview though? I only heard some of it but she didn't even sound like she believed what she was saying. Stopping and starting, hesitance. Just so awkward. I don't trust anything she says.

She's always pretty bad in interviews (I don't know why she doesn't get someone to write her a script with talking points beforehand)  but I agree, she just wants to be the lead without consideration for the overall quality of the show, just like she designed the BC suit with all the buckles and fingerless gloves so her nail polish can match her lipstick.

 

I really wanted Slade to interact with Diggle and Felicity but now that's not going to happen.  I don't care about Oliver/Thea/Malcolm on the island, if I ever see Laurel again it will be too soon, and I'm so angry at Felicity that I don't even want Olicity.

 

Has anyone got a reason for me to tune in again?

[apinknightmare]

You know.. i find it very telling that were the day after the episode aired, and no one has yet to post the Canadian promo (which usually gets posted by the morning after an episode aired). I wonder if we'll see the Asian or NZ (which hasn't been posted in a couple of episodes) - i think those usually get posted by the end of the week?

 

Someone on another site posted that a Canadian promo didn't air with last night's ep. Not sure how accurate that is, since I'm down here in Amurika.

[HighHopes]

Someone on another site posted that a Canadian promo didn't air with last night's ep. Not sure how accurate that is, since I'm down here in Amurika.

There was no Canadian promo last night (and there wasn't one for the Flash on Tuesday either). CTV is weird with their promos, sometimes they have them and other times they just air promos for the whatever is on next. I haven't noticed if they have been consistently airing them this season as CTV takes over the CW network when the episodes air and the CW usually cuts in before the promo airs... 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Haven't seen any of the overseas promos either. But I remember someone on Twitter (or maybe it was Tumblr) asked MG if they could stop the Canadian and NZ promos from giving away massive spoilers (such as the Thea reveal) and he said something like "Believe me, we're trying." There will be promos, I'm sure, but I'm wondering if they'd be able to convince the overseas channels to go with them. I believe those channels cut their own teases/promos.

[foreverevolving]

They do make their own promos. And just as MG has no say about the CW promos he even doubly has no say about overseas promos. He can ask them to not reveal anything, but as we've previously discussed before on another thread: each country is a market onto itself with different audience likes, that's why the Asian promo is so different than the NZ, than the CW (which is US market only i think), than the CTV and so on.

ETA: I've been thinking about title names for 3x18, and than I remembered this idiom and... I don't know, it feel like it may fit after the recent pictures we saw of Roy and with everything that has been going on this season: "Pack of Lies".

Yea that title mystery is killing me.

Edited February 12, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Hook75]

Anyway, so based on that, I guess Laurel's trainer will end up being Nyssa?

 

 

As long as it isn't Oliver.

 

Okay, the extended promo for The Return? Excited about it.

 

 

Me too, and I must admit I'm happy he is away from TA at the moment. He can come back to them when they are done with their FC/Ray prop duty.

[TanyaKay]

Maybe that hug between Felicity and Laurel is where KC got the idea she's in a love triangle. She might even think she's winning. It's more action than Oliver is getting.

Well she did touch Felicity's ponytail just like Oliver did in last episode. Maybe she is going to Single White Female Oliver next when she uses his moves on his girl. Oh boy ... I hope they are not gonna go there....

[jay741982]

Well she did touch Felicity's ponytail just like Oliver did in last episode. Maybe she is going to Single White Female Oliver next when she uses his moves on his girl. Oh boy ... I hope they are not gonna go there....

If they went there Sara/Felicity would've been better

[manbearpig]

I hope future Laurel/Felicity scenes are written better because I think Katie Cassidy and Emily Bett Rickards have been really good together in these past few episodes.

[Coop33]

Has anyone got a reason for me to tune in again?

 

Stephen Amell in suspenders? I know that's what I'm hanging on to (metaphorically, sadly).

Edited February 13, 2015 by Coop33

[BkWurm1]

They do make their own promos. And just as MG has no say about the CW promos he even doubly has no say about overseas promos. He can ask them to not reveal anything, but as we've previously discussed before on another thread: each country is a market onto itself with different audience likes, that's why the Asian promo is so different than the NZ, than the CW (which is US market only i think), than the CTV and so on.

 

That's a very good point.  I recall a discussion once (can't remember what countries were involved) but someone asked someone from another country if they would recommend some movie and they said yes, and proceeded to say exactly how it ended.  When the first person asked why would they spoil it. they didn't understand what the problem was, that they only way they would go see a movie is if they knew how it ended.  In some cultures the surprises and endings are the least important parts to keep secret. 

Edited February 13, 2015 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

Do we know if there are going to be any present-day SC scenes in next week's episode? Because I need to know if Detective Officer Captain Lance actually asked Laurel how long Sara's been dead and, you know, what actually happened to her body. They conveniently skipped over that part of the reveal so Laurel could be in the lair for Oliver to leave the city in her capable hands, so...

[Carrie Ann]

I kind of doubt there will be, given that we ended 313 on Lian Yu, and that the promo photos are all of that or flashbacks, and that Ray isn't in this ep either. Maybe one scene of a patrol or something? But I doubt they'll deal with the Quentin thing until at least the GAME CHANGER.

 

Also, remember how The Return wasn't supposed to refer to Oliver or to Slade? That came up when we still didn't know when Oliver would be back in SC post-death, didn't know this would take place on Lian Yu, so I wonder whether it really does refer to Oliver and MG was just being lawyer-y about the language. Otherwise...any thoughts on who it is?

Edited February 13, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

I thought The Return was in reference to Oliver returning to Starling in the flashbacks. I think he was trying to imply that it wouldn't be referring to Oliver in the present day returning from his death march from whatever asian location he was in for weeks.

Edited February 13, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Carrie Ann]

Oh yeah, that would make sense (and it would make sense to also refer to his return to Lian Yu), I just remember MG saying it didn't refer to Oliver or Slade. But I couldn't remember his exact wording on that bit, so I'm not sure.

[statsgirl]

The Return will be 1. Oliver to Lian Yu in the present and 2. Oliver to Starling City in the flashbacks.  MG probably thought that technically it didn't apply to Oliver returning from the moutain because he was already back.

 

Can I just rage for a moment on the idiocy of Amanda Waller sending Oliver, who was only half-trained and who had his picture all over that paper as a playboy billionaire, to Starling City to get the drug?

 

I doubt there will be any real consequences for Laurel from lying to Lance. By the time they get around to it, it will be so far in the future, March sometimes, that it will be assumed to have been dealt with.

[Sunshine]

I might be mistaken (too lazy to go look) but I thought MG said not all present day scenes take place on Lian Yu. Of course, that could simply mean that Ra's (or his minions)show up in just enough times to grab Malcolm to take him to Nanda Parbat.

[DrSpaceman10]

I thought episode 3x14 was where Laurel is supposed to be called "Black Canary" for the first time, thus completing her epic, game-changing, four-episode superhero journey. That must happen in present day, right?

[Chaser]

I thought episode 3x14 was where Laurel is supposed to be called "Black Canary" for the first time, thus completing her epic, game-changing, four-episode superhero journey. That must happen in present day, right?

Maybe Malcolm/Thea calls her Black Canary (twisted irony in that). Or maybe Oliver mentions Starling being safe in the hands of Black Canary. I'm assuming thats what the pretty good scene with Oliver and Laurel is going to be. He comes back and praises the good job she did.

[statsgirl]

I might be mistaken (too lazy to go look) but I thought MG said not all present day scenes take place on Lian Yu. Of course, that could simply mean that Ra's (or his minions)show up in just enough times to grab Malcolm to take him to Nanda Parbat.

We'll have a scene with Laurel and Tommy, where Laurel is weak and so upset that Oliver and Sara are gone, that sequeways into a scene of present day Laurel, kicking ass in the BC costume alongside Roy and Diggle.(I suspect there are no depths this show won't go to to raise Laurel.)

 

 

. I'm assuming thats what the pretty good scene with Oliver and Laurel is going to be. He comes back and praises the good job she did.

 

And that. Meanwhile Felicity will still be angry at him when  he's going through so much poor baby.

Edited February 13, 2015 by statsgirl

[jay741982]

So not looking forward to Ray returning in 315 or hints of Raylicity. Again I'm so goddamm sick of Ray and Laurel being Propped by a very popular character especially with Ray. What does EBR(also DR) have to do to get their own story arc next season even this season? They both have story arcs waiting in the wings just MG is all about Goddamn Laurel and 50 shades

We'll have a scene with Laurel and Tommy, where Laurel is weak and so upset that Oliver and Sara are gone, that sequeways into a scene of present day Laurel, kicking ass in the BC costume alongside Roy and Diggle.(I suspect there are no depths this show won't go to to raise Laurel.)

 

 

And that. Meanwhile Felicity will still be angry at him when  he's going through so much poor baby.

Yep this will probably happen cause God forbid MG has Oliver and Felicity have convos with each other he's too busy making Felicity isolated with SWM Oliver and he's all about Laurel makes me ill

[Sunshine]

We'll have a scene with Laurel and Tommy, where Laurel is weak and so upset that Oliver and Sara are gone, that sequeways into a scene of present day Laurel, kicking ass in the BC costume alongside Roy and Diggle.(I suspect there are no depths this show won't go to to raise Laurel.)

 

 

And that. Meanwhile Felicity will still be angry at him when  he's going through so much poor baby.

In Felicity's defense, nothing in the show has indicated that she has any idea of what he's going through. Or what he went through. She's experiencing her own pain and heartache. We know. She doesn't.

[jay741982]

In Felicity's defense, nothing in the show has indicated that she has any idea of what he's going through. Or what he went through. She's experiencing her own pain and heartache. We know. She doesn't.

Exactly and she probably won't know until maybe 318 or later more than likely though if we are getting this triangle and reportedly her and Oliver are working towards being friends for the time being hopefully it will come up. She finds out everything Ray don't stand a chance

[statsgirl]

I think Felicity knows enough. She knows that Oliver almost died even though she doesn't know about the being kicked off the mountain part or the Maseo & Tatsu part.

 

If this were well written, Oliver and Felicity would sit down and talk about their differences in whether Merlyn should join.  But it's not, and so Felicity is written to be cold and angry while Oliver gets beat up and suffers.

[Sunshine]

Oliver gets hurt all the time. What has been implied or shown in show that she knows he almost died?

BTW, I am not choosing sides. It appears a lot of fans are which I can accept even though I don't quite understand. I see where they are both coming from. Both are right. Both are wrong.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Sunshine

[apinknightmare]

Oliver gets hurt all the time. What has been implied or shown in show that she knows he almost died?BTW, I am not choosing sides. It appears a lot of fans are. I understand where they are both coming from. Both are right. Both are wrong.

Well, he told her, Diggle and Roy that he almost died, so I hope that would be enough for her to get it, haha.

[jay741982]

I think Felicity knows enough. She knows that Oliver almost died even though she doesn't know about the being kicked off the mountain part or the Maseo & Tatsu part.

If this were well written, Oliver and Felicity would sit down and talk about their differences in whether Merlyn should join. But it's not, and so Felicity is written to be cold and angry while Oliver gets beat up and suffers.

Yeah she don't know about his last thought being her and about the Maseo and Tatsu thing. She is glad he's alive they just want to write her as angry and cold cause of the Malcolm Crap and it's such crap that they can't talk it out cause MG is too busy propping Laurel and Ray Edited February 13, 2015 by jay741982

[jay741982]

Well, he told her, Diggle and Roy that he almost died, so I hope that would be enough for her to get it, haha.

She does get it except for the wanting to work with Scum that had Sara killed and brainwashed his sister to do it. She still thinks he wants to die not that he wants to live for Her, for Thea, for himself . He's an idiot getting training from Someone that is afraid of Ra's and likely wouldn't beat him.

[Sunshine]

Well, he told her, Diggle and Roy that he almost died, so I hope that would be enough for her to get it, haha.

Ha! Guess I slept through that scene. I usually catch those on rewatch but I haven't rewatched anything besides Flarrow this season.

[jay741982]

Does anyone think with Oliver rightfully worrying about Ra's targeting Thea that they are building up for him going after Felicity as well once he finds out Felicity is the Woman he loves. I can see Thea and Felicity both being targeted by Ra's via LOA

[statsgirl]

Sadly, no.  I think Felicity is so far out of this storyline that she might as well be in Central City with Ray. Oh, wait, she will be.

 

 

Ha! Guess I slept through that scene. I usually catch those on rewatch but I haven't rewatched anything besides Flarrow this season.

 

It was the "blink and you missed it" joyous return of Oliver scene, you know, the one where the Team all celebrates how happy they are that he's back?  Yeah, I missed it too.

 

When he walked into the lair, he said "sorry I was gone for so long, I almost died" and then Felicity launched herself at him, he hugged back for a brief moment before disengaging and walking over to Diggle and Roy to thank them for saving the city.  Then the Malcolm crap began.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I know that MG has declared that we're going to get lots of Laurel and Felicity, but does anyone remember if he specifically referenced any scenes or episode numbers?  These big Laurel/Felicity scenes in the last two episodes have really damaged Felicity's character, and I'm not sure that she can take many more hits.

[Genki]

I know that MG has declared that we're going to get lots of Laurel and Felicity, but does anyone remember if he specifically referenced any scenes or episode numbers?  These big Laurel/Felicity scenes in the last two episodes have really damaged Felicity's character, and I'm not sure that she can take many more hits.

 

Maybe it will be like those Felicity/Thea scenes we were going to get...

 

ETA: Between Ray and LaurelI don't have a good feeling for the upcoming Felicity scenes at all.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Genki

[Sunshine]

Is there going to be a Laurel/Felicity/Ray triangle too? She can't spend all her time propping Laurel. Ray needs attention too! (eyeroll)

[Orion]

Well, he told her, Diggle and Roy that he almost died, so I hope that would be enough for her to get it, haha.

That's another huge problem with the writing in this arc. He told Diggle, "I came close," in regards to dying in the very same episode that he magically swung down Main Street over top of a crowd of people covered by the news. So I can't really blame TA for being confused, hell I'm confused and I saw him get stabbed.

[jay741982]

Maybe it will be like those Felicity/Thea scenes we were going to get...

ETA: Between Ray and LaurelI don't have a good feeling for the upcoming Felicity scenes at all.

We are getting thea/felicity I believe later this season.

I know that MG has declared that we're going to get lots of Laurel and Felicity, but does anyone remember if he specifically referenced any scenes or episode numbers? These big Laurel/Felicity scenes in the last two episodes have really damaged Felicity's character, and I'm not sure that she can take many more hits.

In some peoples eyes maybe im not gonna hate felicity cause of scenes with Laurel. I'm no big fan of Laurel but I'm not going to hate Felicity I didn't like the comment in the last episode. MG should know Felicity adored Sara. Shame people turn on a character cause of a ugly line.

Is there going to be a Laurel/Felicity/Ray triangle too? She can't spend all her time propping Laurel. Ray needs attention too! (eyeroll)

Lord knows I've said my hatred of Laurel and Ray being propped. I'm gonna be sad watching fans turn on Felicity more shame on MG

Edited February 13, 2015 by jay741982

[jay741982]

I find it sad that some Felicity fans want her to be happy but yet don't want it with Ray(Gulity here) and are turning on her cause of being nice to Laurel. Hey I want a Thea/Felicity Friendship but I'm taking what I get. I'm hating MG.

Edited February 13, 2015 by jay741982

[Password]

I'm not taking anything happening right now seriously. Ep 11-13 have been farcical. I'm tuning in for Slade, but probably until Suicide Squad I'm out.

Therefore Oliver being a donut, Felicity's bitterness, Diggle being a background shadow, LAWWWREL in all her glory, Malcolm's ridiculous story. None of that has happened as far as I'm concerned. Anything that happens with Ray and Raylicity will receive the same treatment.