Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Angel12d]

Happy new year!

 

Not feeling that episode 310 description. Not feeling it at all. I'm kinda confused when this time jump is going to happen, unless no time jump happens at all. If Oliver doesn't come back until 313 or 314 and the show sticks to real time, that could mean he's only gone for four weeks. That seems plausible. I think I only reasoned there would be a time jump because I couldn't imagine how Laurel could ever suit up as BC after barely eight weeks of training. But with the way they've just tacked on the description of her suiting up like it's an afterthought, I'm not surprised. Whatever. I really don't care anymore. It's happening regardless of what I think about it.

 

Also 315 is called Nanda Parbat. Does that mean Oliver will be going to NP? Will we just be flashing back to Sara's time there? Will it involve Laurel? Who knows. Quickly finding that I don't care either. Seriously, none of these episode titles/descriptions have me excited for the rest of the season tbh. 

[apinknightmare]

Happy new year!

 

Not feeling that episode 310 description. Not feeling it at all. I'm kinda confused when this time jump is going to happen, unless no time jump happens at all. If Oliver doesn't come back until 313 or 314 and the show sticks to real time, that could mean he's only gone for four weeks. That seems plausible. I think I only reasoned there would be a time jump because I couldn't imagine how Laurel could ever suit up as BC after barely eight weeks of training. But with the way they've just tacked on the description of her suiting up like it's an afterthought, I'm not surprised. Whatever. I really don't care anymore. It's happening regardless of what I think about it.

 

Also 315 is called Nanda Parbat. Does that mean Oliver will be going to NP? Will we just be flashing back to Sara's time there? Will it involve Laurel? Who knows. Quickly finding that I don't care either. Seriously, none of these episode titles/descriptions have me excited for the rest of the season tbh. 

 

I think Laurel suiting up so soon lends to her not being very good and having to find another way to be a hero, or however MG put it. And I think the NP episode might have to do with flashbacks of how Malcolm joined the League?

[Angel12d]

I think Laurel suiting up so soon lends to her not being very good and having to find another way to be a hero, or however MG put it. And I think the NP episode might have to do with flashbacks of how Malcolm joined the League?

 

Yeah, the suiting up early does lead to her being terrible at it. I just find the motivation lacking tbh. She says it's to find who killed Sara and make them pay but I don't see how that leads to her putting on that leather outfit. It's just a weak excuse and hasn't resonated with me at all. Also I have no interest in seeing her get beat down all the time. The whole thing is just too fast.

 

And of course! Malcolm. Yes, that makes sense. I legit forgot about him for a second there.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, the suiting up early does lead to her being terrible at it. I just find the motivation lacking tbh. She says it's to find who killed Sara and make them pay but I don't see how that leads to her putting on that leather outfit. It's just a weak excuse and hasn't resonated with me at all. Also I have no interest in seeing her get beat down all the time. The whole thing is just too fast.

 

And of course! Malcolm. Yes, that makes sense. I legit forgot about him for a second there.

 

Yeah, I don't think her putting on that suit is going to have anything to do with Sara. It's either going to be to fool Quentin or because she thinks she can help with the city since Oliver's gone. That's why killing Sara off to fuel her journey was so stupid - everything she's done she could've still done if Sara was alive. They should've just had her lose her faith in the justice system and start taking criminals on herself. But this isn't the bitterness thread, so I'll stop right there, haha. 

 

I'm guessing 3x15 is going to wind up being another flashback-heavy episode, which...no thanks. Especially if it's not even Oliver's. I'll wait and see before I get too deflated about it though.

[Password]

Didn't they say something about Ray Palmer getting a flashback? They might throw that in there even though it's called Nanda Parbat.

[Chaser]

The LL to BC Arc should be titled Lost in Translation. I'm having a hard time understanding just how they are getting from Point A to Point B. I guess the conversation with her mother was supposed to be the light bulb moment. However if its about getting Sara's killer, then why is she suiting up in 3x10? She doesn't know about Malcolm and Thea. I don't believe Diggle or Felicity would tell her given her past history of rash behavior, the fact that Malcolm would kill her if she went after him and I think they would want to protect Thea. It could be about Oliver leaving and the city being vulnerable, but why would she believe she could fit that void? And how does that tie into Sara? Sara wasn't a part of protecting Starling City when she died. Her motivations are getting jumbled up. One episode is about 'justice' and the next episode its about 'revenge.' IMO she should be focused on nothing but getting Sara's killer; have her train for that. Next season, make it about realizing it can be about more then that. Don't try and fit two/three seasons worth of growth in 9 episodes.

 

Do the EPs approve of episode descriptions? I'm asking because I reread the denial quote about the BC Arc and he said she would be making be strides to becoming BC. I wonder she isn't titled till later and the description just jumps the gun.

 

ETA: Anyone else feel like they are setting up Laurel v. Thea/Oliver and Team Arrow v. Malcolm.

Edited January 1, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Chiny11]

Didn't they say something about Ray Palmer getting a flashback? They might throw that in there even though it's called Nanda Parbat.

Oh boy! Palmer is getting a flashback too?

Where is my Arrow? Where is my Oliver? I need him back ASAP... Man-Pain... Stubbornness and all. I promise I won't complain about that again. :(

At the rate everyone is getting a flashback (or an arc), they would soon rename the show to "SC Vigilantes & Heroes".

[Velocity23]

I think 3x15 is about Malcolm flashbacks with young Nyssa being present also.

 

[quarks]

Do the EPs approve of episode descriptions?

 

 

This depends upon the network. I don't know what the CW's policy is. 

 

What mostly interests me about this episode description is not anything in the description. It's that for the second time in two weeks, Arrow has chosen to bury the lede, as they say, releasing the first official descriptions about Laurel's transformation on the day after Christmas and now on New Year's Eve.

 

It's hardly a hard and fast rule, and we can all come up with exceptions, but in general, Hollywood studios rarely release anything that they think fans will get excited about or want fans to get excited about between December 22 and January 3rd, because fewer people are paying attention.  

[ban1o]

What mostly interests me about this episode description is not anything in the description. It's that for the second time in two weeks, Arrow has chosen to bury the lede, as they say, releasing the first official descriptions about Laurel's transformation on the day after Christmas and now on New Year's Eve.

It's hardly a hard and fast rule, and we can all come up with exceptions, but in general, Hollywood studios rarely release anything that they think fans will get excited about or want fans to get excited about between December 22 and January 3rd, because fewer people are paying attention.

 

 

Quarks ALL the CW show episode descriptions were released yesterday and they ALWAYS release them 3 weeks before the episode premieres on Wednesday (with i think one exception that I remember when it was released the Thursday). The timing has nothing to do with "burying" Laurel. Most other networks released the episode descriptions yesterday as well. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by ban1o

[Chaser]

My two cents: they have faith in the story they are telling, but no faith in the audience reaction to the story. Which is why Team Arrow, Felicity and Olicity come with more social media kick then LL mentions. Of course, social media is generally safe for the above three. I know that there was a lot of buzz for BC picture, but buzz doesn't always mean positive. If it was overwhelmingly positive, I don't think we would have seen such back track from the EPs about the BC-Triology. 

 

I will say I expect to see more of a BC push as we get closer (either to 3x10 or 3x13). I think they want to get viewers to check out THE BLACK CANARY's 'official' debut. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

This depends upon the network. I don't know what the CW's policy is. 

 

What mostly interests me about this episode description is not anything in the description. It's that for the second time in two weeks, Arrow has chosen to bury the lede, as they say, releasing the first official descriptions about Laurel's transformation on the day after Christmas and now on New Year's Eve.

 

It's hardly a hard and fast rule, and we can all come up with exceptions, but in general, Hollywood studios rarely release anything that they think fans will get excited about or want fans to get excited about between December 22 and January 3rd, because fewer people are paying attention.  

 

It definitely felt like a Friday Night News Dump, didn't it? I didn't think much about the after-Christmas tweets, but I definitely side-eyed the episode descriptions when they were released yesterday. Could just be they had releases queued already for Wednesdays. I would read more into it if only Arrow released a summary, but CW issued one for all its shows. I'm actually looking forward to see how CW will promote the next few episodes.

[apinknightmare]

I will say I expect to see more of a BC push as we get closer (either to 3x10 or 3x13). I think they want to get viewers to check out THE BLACK CANARY's 'official' debut.

To what, watch her get her ass kicked? They shouldn't have mentioned anything about Black Canary until she was somewhat competent at fighting. Makes no sense.

[Chaser]

That's why I'm leaning towards the description not being an accurate portrayal of what we see in the episode. The idea that her first time out is with the moniker Black Canary. It's backwards. They just tacked it on to the end of the synopsis, after Ray's mention of the ATOM suit. Where is the fanfare? 

[apinknightmare]

That's why I'm leaning towards the description not being an accurate portrayal of what we see in the episode. The idea that her first time out is with the moniker Black Canary. It's backwards. They just tacked it on to the end of the synopsis, after Ray's mention of the ATOM suit. Where is the fanfare?

Well, that's kind of my point. You put Black Canary in the description, people who tune in for that are going to expect to see a competant Black Canary, not someone who gets their ass kicked. If she's not taking up the moniker in the show, then it shouldn't be mentioned in the description. They're just setting people up for disappointment.

Could MG maybe be overselling her ineptitude?

[SonofaBiscuit]

You just know that if Laurel eventually gets a win, whomever she saves will probably ask her, "Who are you?"  And then she'll respond (with dramatic background music, of course), "I'm the Black Canary."  And then I'll laugh and laugh and laugh.  OK, no I won't because I won't be watching, but I could totally see this happening.  That Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world.

[Carrie Ann]

I am at a total loss to speculate about anything for the rest of the season, because it seems like so many things hinge on how much time passes between 309 and Oliver's return. On the other hand, the writers have made me doubt that they still care about writing toward organic development and conflict, so maybe it doesn't matter at all whether six weeks or six months have passed. The characters will behave however the plot requires them to, whether or not it feels right or believable.

 

So what I'm trying to do now is figure out what the point of any of this is, and then work backward. Why did they need Oliver to die? Obviously to prop up other people, but what about for Oliver himself? What's the endgame for him? To me, the season has to end with him embracing both sides of himself. Since we'll only have about 10 episodes to get to that point, he's either going to go through a mini-arc of what he's already done in the last 2.5 seasons (if he "comes back wrong," and has to relearn how to be a human/hero), or he's going to come back dedicated to reclaiming his life and committed to his humanity.

 

That second option is more appealing and makes more sense to me based on 3A, so I'm just going to talk about that general direction. Where do other people need to be when he comes back? If Team Arrow plus BC plus maybe Ray are floundering without him, and he needs to swoop back in to save the day, then what's really changed before/after his death? He comes back to the same life he left. But if they've figured some things out and are doing relatively okay, then he could find that the place he used to occupy in Starling is gone, and he has to adjust to this new reality, the way they all did when he died.

 

By the same token, this is why it seems to me like Felicity has to either move on with Ray, or decide that she just can't be with Oliver because she feels like it's only a matter of time until he dies again. Again, the second option is the one that I find more believable (I mean, I actually don't believe she'd be able to keep herself from him after losing him once), but the show doesn't seem to have the patience for more subtle stuff this season. And it seems unlikely to me that they would spend this time on the Ray/Felicity dynamic if they weren't going to go anywhere with it. But, maybe they will go with option #2, and Ray will still just exist as a foil for Oliver and object of jealousy because of Felicity's role in PT and ATOM stuff.

 

And again, this is why I do think it's possible they're going the Insta-Hero route, regardless of what the EPs say. Laurel may struggle through her three-episode crucible, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's the final gauntlet and then she's just the BC. I hear what some of you are saying about being okay with that because you just want it over with, and I wish I felt that way, but I don't. I think the truth is that I'm just never going to be happy with this storyline, and that's that. The only way I end up happy about it is if she leaves to find her own city to defend at the end of S3, or if she does this and decides it's not the life she wants.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[quarks]

Sure, the CW usually releases episode descriptions on Wednesdays.  But they easily could have said, hey, wait, this is New Year's Eve. Maybe we should hold off and release this next Wednesday, when people might be paying more attention.

 

They didn't.

 

There's all kinds of possible explanations for this, not necessarily involving Laurel - the CW didn't want to release two sets of episode descriptions at once, although they've done that before, or whoever is responsible for this has heard yet another rumor that the CW is doomed and/or didn't want to work between Christmas/New Year's, so said screw it, and so on.  But still, no one involved with the promo side of Arrow thought, wow, Laurel suiting up is such an awesome, major moment that we need to make sure that episode description isn't just dumped on New Year Eve.  

[Morrigan2575]

Quarks ALL the CW show episode descriptions were released yesterday and they ALWAYS release them 3 weeks before the episode premieres on Wednesday (with i think one exception that I remember when it was released the Thursday). The timing has nothing to do with "burying" Laurel. Most other networks released the episode descriptions yesterday as well.

I think it's interesting that they included Black Canary in a low press/news attention (period) when it was utterly unnecessary to the actual episode description. They tacked it on at the end, which gives it a feel of being unnecessary/unimportant/something you want to be missed/overlooked.

If Laurel's debut is something they expect to get huge positive attention/reaction it wouldn't have been tacked on at this point. It would have been proclaimed from on high in the media run-up to 309 or handled in postmortem interviews. Or, they would have waited until they started the media push for the return from winter break 1/19.

Instead, run up to 309 press, is MG running as far away from the laurel/canary trilogy as possible. What AJK proclaimed as the Laurel trilogy, is now Malcolm, Roy, Team Arrow episodes and oh yeah Laurel will make some strides towards BC. Instead of waiting until the big media push in 3 weeks it's dropped now, when no one is paying attention...by the time the show comes back it will be old news and (hopefully) no one will care to raise a stink.

Rather than announcing it at a point where people can get excited (think Ra's at Big DCTV evet at SDCC) and get maximum press coverage they're hoping to bury it now, so the negative reaction will be negated by time.

Now, is that a fact...nope, I have no idea what the CW Promo department is thinking but, it's certainly one interpretation.

The other possibility is that they're not trying to bury it to avoid negative reactions. However, they don't think it will benefit them very much or that the audience will actually care about it...not worthy of a grand announcement.

To counter this I point to the grand announcement of getting Black Canary at SDCC 2013...and they most definitely promoted Sara/CL as Black Canary back then.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

Sure, the CW usually releases episode descriptions on Wednesdays.  But they easily could have said, hey, wait, this is New Year's Eve. Maybe we should hold off and release this next Wednesday, when people might be paying more attention.

 

They didn't.

 

There's all kinds of possible explanations for this, not necessarily involving Laurel - the CW didn't want to release two sets of episode descriptions at once, although they've done that before, or whoever is responsible for this has heard yet another rumor that the CW is doomed and/or didn't want to work between Christmas/New Year's, so said screw it, and so on.  But still, no one involved with the promo side of Arrow thought, wow, Laurel suiting up is such an awesome, major moment that we need to make sure that episode description isn't just dumped on New Year Eve.  

but CW doesn't revolve Arrow. They released all the episode descriptions yesterday.  Fox and NBC  released their episode description on New Years Eve as well. It doesn't have anything to do with Laurel. I think people are over analyzing things. Why would they wait when every other network is releasing their episode descriptions?. they ALWAYS release episode descriptions on the Wednesday 3 weeks before. The Hart of Dixie episode description was released on Christmas Eve, which his a holiday as well when the episode premieres January 15. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by ban1o

[tv echo]

Happy New Year, everyone!

 

I don't think I'll be watching Episode 10 live - simply because it sounds too sad.  I'll be battling the midwinter blues (otherwise known as S.A.D.) anyway, so I don't need to watch something that will depress me.  I'll probably record the episode and read others' comments and recaps to see if there's something I need to watch immediately.

 

P.S.  Regarding TV female superheroes, I'm really looking forward to Agent Carter - yeah, I know 'not comics', but I don't care.  Sorry to go slightly off-topic.

[quarks]

To offer a couple contrasts:

 

1. The Arrow vs. Flash/Brave vs. Bold episodes, hyped before the shows were even scripted, let alone filmed.  Why? Because those were episodes that the producers predicted (correctly) that fans would want to see. "Left Behind"?  Well, most of what we're actually seeing is about Felicity and Malcolm, not Laurel, but that aside, even though this is the episode where Laurel suits up at last, we're hearing less about it than we did about the crossover episodes way back in August.

 

2. Agent Carter.  Like Laurel's debut as Black Canary, this is coming in January. Like that debut, it's not a spoiler. We've known that Laurel would be the Black Canary since the pilot (occasional fan hopes aside). We've known that an Agent Carter show would be coming for well over a year now.

 

ABC? Hyping Agent Carter everywhere this fall. The CW? Barely hyping Laurel's transformation at all. That's what's interesting. Yes, ABC has more money, but I don't think that's entirely it. I think it's also that ABC figures that Peggy Carter can draw in viewers - and they have evidence: two popular movies and internet fan support. Laurel, more doubtful.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with Laurel

 

Exactly. The co-lead of one of the CW's biggest shows is suiting up, and it's being treated as just another episode by the CW, in the same category as other "eh, it's just January" episodes from Fox, NBC and so on. (Unless you are ABC, apparently, pushing your winter hiatus shows, but that's another discussion.) I find that interesting.

 

Back to spoiler discussion - can I hope that Malcolm will say, "I can help you get your revenge against Ra's Al Ghul. And to prove it, I'll kill this DJ."  Too much?

[Chaser]

I want to know when the description was written. Before or After the BTS photo of KC's stunt double leaked. Thinking about it now, it wouldn't make sense to debut LL as BC the episode after Oliver's death. The death was such a huge moment, it has to be addressed in a big way right off the bat. It needs its own episode. I wonder BC only shows up at the end of the episode as an OMG moment to the audience. But then the photo was leaked and their way of damage control was to embrace it and the response to the 'Its Too Soon' was to give up the episode number. Now they have to put it in the description. I think it would explain why the line seems to be tacked on.

 

I don't think the timing of the release should be side-eyed, but I do think the general promotion of LL as BC is lacking a lot. The single line at the end of the description. They could have put more of an effort into hyping Laurel at ComicCon. 

[tv echo]

I think Laurel's debut as the Black Canary would have a lot more impact if we hadn't already had Sara as the Canary (sometimes referenced in the media as the Black Canary) for the past year on Arrow.

[ban1o]

 

 

1. The Arrow vs. Flash/Brave vs. Bold episodes, hyped before the shows were even scripted, let alone filmed.  Why? Because those were episodes that the producers predicted (correctly) that fans would want to see. "Left Behind"?  Well, most of what we're actually seeing is about Felicity and Malcolm, not Laurel, but that aside, even though this is the episode where Laurel suits up at last, we're hearing less about it than we did about the crossover episodes way back in August.

We don't have a full promo for Left behind yet., We have seen basically 5 shots. Oliver lying in the mountains and someone coming beside him, Malcolm, Thea, Felicity and Roy. That's like nothing, and all of those , except for Oliver, came from a New Zealand promo which CW has nothing to do with. If they release a full promo and there's still no Laurel or mention of BC then i would agree that they are not promoting her at all and trying to bury her. And for all we know she might not suit up until the very end of the episode 10 which would actually make sense. 

 

Anyway my point was the timing of the release of the episode description had nothing to do with trying to bury Laurel so people wooldn't react negatively to her becoming BC. 

Also Agent Carter is a new show based a supporting character from CA movies. Of course they are hyping it. :P  

 

 

I think Laurel's debut as the Black Canary would have a lot more impact if we hadn't already had Sara as the Canary (sometimes referenced in the media as the Black Canary) for the past year on Arrow.

Yeah it's funny Sara has been referenced as Black Canary so many times that Laurel is really no big deal lol. 

 

 

Back to spoiler discussion - can I hope that Malcolm will say, "I can help you get your revenge against Ra's Al Ghul. And to prove it, I'll kill this DJ."  Too much?

I read a comment on an article and it said that Oliver should kill the DJ. "I promised my best friend i would never kill again, but, I'll make an exception this one time Douche!" lol but yeah hopefully Malcolm kills him. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by ban1o

[dtissagirl]

You know, if Laurel buckling up in the suit is the very last thing that happens in 310, I'm definitely gonna believe that they planned on it being as shocking as Sara dying [lolno, but see previous cognitive dissonance every time ever re: Laurel's storyline.] And that their plans to PR it were for AFTER 310 aired, since it kinda looks like 311 is the big Laurel ~crucible episode.

Except the camera guy blew the whistle with the stunt team pic, and they had to give the promo shots and an episode number to Entertainment Weekly as damage control. And then whoever wrote this episode description had to go with "oh, right, bee tee dubs, Laurel is BC now", which is an incredibly weird thing to tackle onto a summary, since it's an statement that is sort of external to the narrative. But it's out there already, so they need to reference it.

Edited January 1, 2015 by dancingnancy

[olicityfan25]

Look at all the lists Felicity and Oliver are on. Or even the actors Emily Bett and Stephen Amell are on. Even Sara got on year end lists.

 

Laurel made the most annoying list. This isn't going to change because she "suits up." She's just an annoying character and a suit isn't going to mask that.

[ban1o]

You know, if Laurel buckling up in the suit is the very last thing that happens in 310, I'm definitely gonna believe that they planned on it being as shocking as Sara dying [lolno, but see previous cognitive dissonance every time ever re: Laurel's storyline.] And that their plans to PR it were for AFTER 310 aired, since it kinda looks like 311 is the big Laurel ~crucible episode.

Except the camera guy blew the whistle with the stunt team pic, and they had to give the promo shots and an episode number to Entertainment Weekly as damage control. And then whoever wrote this episode description had to go with "oh, right, bee tee dubs, Laurel is BC now", which is an incredibly weird thing to tackle onto a summary, since it's an statement that is sort of external to the narrative. But it's out there already, so they need to reference it.

Yeah I'm really think 3x10 will build up to her suiting up and then at the very end of the episode she'll suit up. It's actually possible it was meant to be shocking but the stunt double picture spoiled it so they were forced to release the promo pictures and to mention it because it would look bad if they ignored it. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by ban1o

[Kordi]

O.K. I know I've already posted the link to menalsoship's speculations about S3B on his tumblr blog. But since I think they really deserve that people take a closer look at them and offer some considerations and comments on these specs, I 'm now going to quote the main parts of these speculations. I would really like to know what you think about them. (Sorry, for being such a pain in the ass right now!)

 

"First of all, I think Malcolm will save Oliver. I’m sure Ra’s isn’t the big bad of the season, Merlyn is. Mostly because in a show that wants to stay grounded, there’s no other enemy as powerful as Ra’s that can be done. [...] If Oliver beats Ra’s on Season 3, then what other threat could he face? It’s either that or the show goes full meta-human (something the EPs said they don’t want to do).

 

So, first thing first, there’s no way Malcolm could believe Oliver would defeat Ra’s. So why send him to die? Well, Malcolm is a planner; a man all about tactics. He can’t defeat Ra’s but he can make the League start questioning him. How? Well, here comes this boy (Oliver) he [Ra's] supposedly killed, walking again the streets of his city. Did he actually beat him? Did he lie? Is he getting weaker?

 

I think Malcolm wants to take over the League. He wants people to stop believing in Ra’s. A leader is nothing without a following. I think he and Oliver will team up to exile Ra’s from the League only to see the Magician betray the Arrow. Then we will see Oliver teaming up with Ra’s to defeat Merlyn, as he brings war to Starling City in order to finish what he started in season1. Then, in season 4, they could still have the League as some sort of ally, as Ra’s wants Oliver to be his heir.

 

Also I think, for episodes 3x10-12, they will do their version of Lemire’s “Broken” comicbook run: In that series, Oliver is thought [to be] dead and Fyff and Naomi team up with a man called John Diggle to take down Richard Dragon and his gang, who saw the oportunity of a Seattle without Green Arrow to reclaim the city. Of course, the good guys (Digg, Naomi and Fyff) don’t win… they are defeated no matter how good their plan is or how hard they work. But then, Oliver returns… saves Diggle and re-take Seattle.

 

Back on Arrow, I think the first scene of 3x10 will be a follow-up of 3x09 when Malcolm gives Felicity the big news: “Oliver Queen is dead”. Then we will jump 2 months [ahead] and the gangs lead by Brick have taken over Starling City. We will see all the Team [Arrow] being lost without Oliver. I think Laurel will see the city has become a dumpster and that will prompt her to suit up. By the end they (Diggle, Felicity, Roy and Laurel) will have a small victory. Then, in 3x11, we will see Team Arrow + Laurel going against Brick, and they will fail. They will get defeated and one of the characters is gonna be taken hostage. Now, in 3x12, we will see the return of Ted Grant as he and Laurel team up to try and save some people. Sin will clash with Laurel about wearing the suit. Oliver will show up, still not ready (physical or mentally) and after a huge fight they will defeat Brick.

 

On 3x13 Vertigo will return. He will inject Laurel with the drug that will make her see Sara telling her she is not fitted to wear the suit (aka her biggest fear). Oliver will struggle with his PTSD as he thinks he now can’t do good as the Arrow either. Everything should be back to normal by the end of the episode. Something will happen on this episode that will justify the return of Slade on 3x14. My tought? Chase (DJ Moron) is Joe, his son who is a meta-human that has some sort of charm-speak (you can call it that xD).

 

I think that by the end of the season we will have Roy, Laurel and Ted as heros which will make Oliver realize he can have the time to be Oliver Queen. Ray will leave and Oliver will make the Queen Foundation or Queen Industries, and Felicity will be the CEO.

 

I don’t think we will see the Atom [...] suit up this season at all or maybe with a prototype suit on the final episodes. I really think the Atom is gonna be the third CW show they were talking about and the final suit will be shown in the pilot [...]."

[pootlus]

The only way Laurel suiting up is going to be remotely realistic is if the time jump is five years (and even then it's going to be barely credible with her starting fighting training comparatively late in life, but I can handwave that).  But that would leave EBR playing around 8 years older than she actually is, and would leave DR as the youngest-looking 40-year-old in history.

 

I fully admit to being a complete hypocrite where Laurel is concerned.  I have no desire to see her get beaten up (that episode where she stupidly went after the criminal was brutal, even though I loathe the character) but I've also got no desire to see months and years spent on her training, especially as she has zero chemistry with Ted (and he turns into a plank of wood around her), and the thought of insta-Canary fills me with rage too.

[ban1o]

The only way Laurel suiting up is going to be remotely realistic is if the time jump is five years (and even then it's going to be barely credible with her starting fighting training comparatively late in life, but I can handwave that).  But that would leave EBR playing around 8 years older than she actually is, and would leave DR as the youngest-looking 40-year-old in history.

David Ramsey is like 43 :P but yeah he looks young lol. 

 

I fully admit to being a complete hypocrite where Laurel is concerned.  I have no desire to see her get beaten up (that episode where she stupidly went after the criminal was brutal, even though I loathe the character) but I've also got no desire to see months and years spent on her training, especially as she has zero chemistry with Ted (and he turns into a plank of wood around her), and the thought of insta-Canary fills me with rage too.

 

yeah I don't want to see her get beat up. I don't really like watching female characters get beat up like that. And even the scene with the criminal seemed inconsistent with how she fought in season 1 but the writing for her is very inconsistent anyway. And I don't know if Larel fans are going to want to see her get brutally beat up so It makes me wonder who they are writing for.  

Edited January 1, 2015 by ban1o

[calliope1975]

I do wonder how much the picture leak has changed TPTB's plans promotion wise. If they were so confident in Laurel suiting up, why not hype it to the high heavens at Comic Con? They didn't have to spoil Sara being brutally murdered, but they could have said Laurel would be taking strides to her becausecomics! identity. They didn't bury the lead with Ra's. They put that info out there loud and proud. I think everyone was expecting it so the backlash wouldn't have been any more than it already was when they killed off Sara. I just don't understand what their plan is and why they continue to persist with something that hasn't worked for 3 years.

 

While I'm interested in seeing baby Nyssa, once again, I'm not here for all these Oliver-less shows. Why the fuck would I care what Ray Palmer was doing years ago? I barely want to watch him with Felicity; I definitely don't have any desire to watch him on his own. (And I finally watched that Hallmark movie that BR was in where he was charming, handsome, fun, and did not have crazy eyes - why couldn't that guy be on Arrow?)

 

Oh well, I'm looking forward to the amount of backtracking and tap dancing that will be happening in the weeks ahead. And miracle upon miracles, they could surprise me and I'll love it. We'll see.

[ban1o]

 If they were so confident in Laurel suiting up, why not hype it to the high heavens at Comic Con? They didn't have to spoil Sara being brutally murdered, but they could have said Laurel would be taking strides to her becausecomics! identity. They didn't bury the lead with Ra's. They put that info out there loud and proud. I think everyone was expecting it so the backlash wouldn't have been any more than it already was when they killed off Sara. 

They might have didn't know then lol. I really don't think the writers plan stuff out that much. (mostly kidding about this) And it would have kind of spoiled Sara's death tbh. IF people heard Laurel would become BC this season then everybody would be speculating about Sara's death and there would be more backlash since Sara was still alive. . But I guess most people were speculating she would die anyway. Anyway I'm beginning to think Laurel suiting up as BC was supposed to be a "shocking" plot development. 

 

But then again KC did post that picture of her being molded for a mask pretty early so maybe they were just planning on promoting it during the hiatus or something. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

David Ramsey is like 43 :P but yeah he looks young lol. 

 

yeah I don't want to see her get beat up. I don't really like watching female characters get beat up like that. And even the scene with the criminal seemed inconsistent with how she fought in season 1 but the writing for her is very inconsistent anyway. And I don't know if Larel fans are going to want to see her get brutally beat up so It makes me wonder who they are writing for.  

 

Yeah, I could not care less about Laurel, but the very last thing I want to watch is her getting beat up. Or losing constantly. At this point with her it's like...jesus, that's enough. I can't imagine how people who are actually fans of her will react to her not being able to hold her own. Unless they're overselling that to ease the minds of the fans who aren't looking forward to her, and she winds up being better than they're letting on.

[Angel12d]

"First of all, I think Malcolm will save Oliver. I’m sure Ra’s isn’t the big bad of the season, Merlyn is. Mostly because in a show that wants to stay grounded, there’s no other enemy as powerful as Ra’s that can be done. [...] If Oliver beats Ra’s on Season 3, then what other threat could he face? It’s either that or the show goes full meta-human (something the EPs said they don’t want to do).

So, first thing first, there’s no way Malcolm could believe Oliver would defeat Ra’s. So why send him to die? Well, Malcolm is a planner; a man all about tactics. He can’t defeat Ra’s but he can make the League start questioning him. How? Well, here comes this boy (Oliver) he [Ra's] supposedly killed, walking again the streets of his city. Did he actually beat him? Did he lie? Is he getting weaker?

I think Malcolm wants to take over the League.

 

 

I've been thinking for a while that Malcolm might turn out to be the big bad. Partly because he is a bad person, the history is there, and also because Ra's al Ghul is too big of a figure to be defeated by Oliver - or anyone tbh.

 

I also found Ra's reaction to Oliver in 309 very interesting. He was almost surprised when he said he was 'just a boy' and seemed kind of impressed that he had got as far as he did in their duel. It felt like there was an air of reluctance to kill him but he had to because that's what he does when challenged to a duel. I haven't rewatched the episode since it aired but that was my first impression. I honestly don't see how Oliver could possibly go up against him again and win. I do, however, see the team (and Thea hopefully) banding together to defeat Malcolm. That's more plausible.

 

I do wonder if Ra's is just going to be this vague kind of presence throughout the season that is there to maybe guide Oliver. I remember reading something about how Ra's is there to show that Oliver can't be two people at once. That he can't possibly be the best of his ability because he's still trying to be Oliver Queen. I think to even be remotely in with a chance of defeating Ra's (again, I doubt that will ever happen), Oliver would have to just be the Arrow and we all know that's not what this season is about. 

 

And really, if we look at the bigger picture, all the problems they've had this season lead back to Malcolm. He started this, not Ra's. I'm sure we're supposed to think that Ra's is the big bad because of what we know about Sara and the LoA but Malcolm is the one who bought them the trouble in the first place.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Angel12d

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, if I were to pick between Ra's and Malcolm as the Big Bad to be defeated in the season finale, I'd pick Merlyn because in the grand scheme of things, the crap he pulled was way more shady. But I'm still not completely ruling out Amanda Waller/ARGUS as a potential Big Bad. And that speech Oliver and Lyla recited verbatim from what Waller said in the flashbacks legit gave me as much creeps as Malcolm putting the whammy on Thea. Brainwashing vs mind-control, who wins?

[chaos is welcome]

With the announcement that 3x15 is Nanda Parbat, I really think "The Return" is going to parallel both flashback Oliver and present day oliver choosing to leave Starling on his own volition OR realizing its safer/better for his family/friends if they move on without him. 

 

I am not sure how exactly he shows up in canaries (we know he does, and we know it isn't a flashback to previous things because its Cisco's upgraded suit), but either he manages to MAKE the team think he was a hallucination or the figure out he is alive and he leaves anyway. 

 

This would explain the multiple spoilers saying we have to go more than a few eps without Oliver, and Stephen saying in his QandA he was donning the arrow suit for the first time in awhile. 

 

This does not excite me.  Of this is correct, it means its probably going to be march at the earliest before we get anything remotely not depressing on this show.  

[ban1o]

With the announcement that 3x15 is Nanda Parbat, I really think "The Return" is going to parallel both flashback Oliver and present day oliver choosing to leave Starling on his own volition OR realizing its safer/better for his family/friends if they move on without him. 

 

I am not sure how exactly he shows up in canaries (we know he does, and we know it isn't a flashback to previous things because its Cisco's upgraded suit), but either he manages to MAKE the team think he was a hallucination or the figure out he is alive and he leaves anyway.

Mmm my only qualms with that spec is that

1. Guggenheim said "The return" did not refer to Oliver and

2. at a comic-con David said that Stephen was back and shooting scenes in the foundry. They were shooting episode 14 at the time 

Edited January 2, 2015 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

This would explain the multiple spoilers saying we have to go more than a few eps without Oliver, and Stephen saying in his QandA he was donning the arrow suit for the first time in awhile. 

 

"Awhile" is probably a relative term to him - it couldn't have been that long because we got pictures of him dressed as Arrow shooting a scene with CH only a week or two before he said that. 

[LadyChaos]

awhile to SA might be going 3-4 days without donning the suit.

[KirkB]

The more I read about these upcoming episodes the less interested I am to watch them, and considering I was hovering around the ten percent interested mark in the first place that's not really a good sign. 

[foreverevolving]

Yeah, if I were to pick between Ra's and Malcolm as the Big Bad to be defeated in the season finale, I'd pick Merlyn because in the grand scheme of things, the crap he pulled was way more shady. But I'm still not completely ruling out Amanda Waller/ARGUS as a potential Big Bad. And that speech Oliver and Lyla recited verbatim from what Waller said in the flashbacks legit gave me as much creeps as Malcolm putting the whammy on Thea. Brainwashing vs mind-control, who wins?

I don't think Malcolm is ever going to be fully defeated (and this has nothing to do with Barrowman), If i am not mistaken the dark archer is the main enemy of Green Arrow, it be like having superman without Lax Luther or Batman with out The Joker. Sure you can kill him but than.. What is left? Every hero needs an antagonist that is in many ways their equal or slightly better. While Ra's is obviously a villain he is so far out of Oliver league he will win, every. Single. Time.

No Arrow needs Malcolm whether in business suit, or archer suit. Arrow needs him to help advance Oliver's progress.

About the episode.. In al honesty that description doesn't turn me off from watching. I actually find it more intriguing and hilarious than anything else, while everyone got a line or two about what their character is doing and feeling Fakanary gets barely half a line at the end of the synopsis, as if the person writing it was saying 'ohh shot, once again i totally forgot to add something about that character nobody likes..'

Edited January 2, 2015 by foreverevolving

[tv echo]

Regarding the specs about S2B, I still don't understand Malcolm's plan - whatever it is.  Also, if Malcolm is able to retrieve Oliver's body and save him, then it will mean that Malcolm was able to get in and out of the secret LOA dueling site (with Oliver's body) without being spotted by Ra's or the LOA.  I assume that Ra's minions are still scouring the globe for him?  

 

I disagree with those specs about Laurel suiting up because she sees the city has become a dumpster.  That would make no sense.  Her father is the police captain.  So she'd basically be saying he's doing a crap job of keeping the city safe.  Instead, why wouldn't she go to him and her boss, the DA, and work with them to try to improve things?  She is still an ADA, right?  If they go that route of Laurel suiting up because the city's a dumpster, it would just further disrespect Quentin.  Oh wait... makes no sense and disrespects Quentin - yeah, it'll probably happen that way.

 

Alternatively, the EPs could be trying to make parallels to Oliver's journey - no matter how ludicrous the comparison - and have Laurel see a hallucination of Sara when she's down and have Sara tell her to get up, not to give up, that she's a hero and worthy to wear the suit.  This would be a call back to when Oliver saw a hallucination of Tommy who told him to get up, etc.

 

It still irks me that this season seems to be leading up to the conclusion that you have to be in costume to be a superhero (no matter how incompetent or little trained you are) - I know there's debate about this.

 

BTW, I wanted to mention that someone pointed out that the duel did not take place at Nanda Parbat but at another secret location.  But one reviewer had pointed out that there was steam rising from a nearby hot springs, speculating that it was hinting at the Lazarus Pit.  But isn't the Lazarus Pit at Nanda Parbat?  So could the secret duel site be near Nanda Parbat?  Otherwise, whoever rescued Oliver would have to transport his body to Nanda Parbat or wherever the Lazarus Pit is located.  Maybe someone can clarify how this might work.  Maybe the rescuer will carry Oliver's body to the healing destination in the same way that Laurel carried Sara's arrow-ridden body from the alley to the foundry basement - magically.

Edited January 2, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

BTW, I wanted to mention that someone pointed out that the duel did not take place at Nanda Parbat but at another secret location.  But one reviewer had pointed out that there was steam rising from a nearby hot springs, speculating that it was hinting at the Lazarus Pit.  But isn't the Lazarus Pit at Nanda Parbat?  So could the secret duel site be near Nanda Parbat?  Otherwise, whoever rescued Oliver would have to transport his body to Nanda Parbat or wherever the Lazarus Pit is located.  Maybe someone can clarify how this might work.  Maybe the rescuer will carry Oliver's body to the healing destination in the same way that Laurel carried Sara's arrow-ridden body from the alley to the foundry basement - magically.

 

There's more than one Lazarus Pit - they're not just located in Nanda Parbat.

 

And since "Canaries" is when Count Vertigo reappears, I'm assuming that if we see any kind of hallucination regarding Laurel, it'll be of her worst fear variety (like Oliver's in The Calm), and if it involves Sara, it probably won't involve her saying nice things to her. Could be wrong about that though. 

 

I don't really think that her suiting up to clean up the city is disrespectful to Quentin - he's not able to keep all the criminals off the streets - if he was there would be no need for the Arrow. Her putting on a suit to fight crime doesn't really line up with what they're trying to sell us regarding her motivations, but that would fit in perfectly with her questionable narrative since no one seems to be able to figure out if she's training because she wants to become a vigilante or if she really gives two shits about finding Sara's killer. And if it does have to do with Sara's killer, who exactly does she go out to fight? Does she find out it's Thea and try to take her on? LOL. 

[TwistedandBored]

I think that Laurel suiting up as BC would have an impact. The initial reaction for those who don't read spoilers or seen the pictures would be "OMG" "Laurel is BC"…etc. This would be what is going trend at the end of the episode. What would interest me is the reaction after all the dust is settle and people get over their initial shock. This is when people would start to analyze Laurel's journey to BC aka InstaBC. This last reaction is the one that is going to matter going forward. 

[KirkB]

Now I'm imagining what Laurel's arc is going to look like to the uninformed viewer. Those people who know the comics and those on boards like this are fully aware she is going to put on a costume and try to fight crime. Whether this is seen as a good or bad thing depends on the individual. But there are bound to be some people watching the show who have never picked up a comic and have no idea corners of the internet like this exist. Doesn't that mean Laurel becoming the Black Canary is going to come out of left field? Nothing on the show indicates she ever had the urge to do so. Sure, she attacked a guy with a baseball bat, and she is taking boxing lessons from Ted, but on the show it doesn't look like she is doing anything more than getting in shape and/or working out her frustrations. From that perspective she is all the sudden deciding to try and emulate Oliver and Roy and Sara. But why? 

[chaos is welcome]

I'm sure the writers think they have hinted at it REALLY WELL all along.  Insert sarcastic eyeroll here.

 

TV Echo-you hit on a good point, they should NOT have made her a semi capable lawyer turned DA if they wanted us to believe the only way she can deal with the city going south is to suit up. 

We should take bets on how many episodes it will be until someone tell Quentin his daughter is dead.

[ban1o]

 

We should take bets on how many episodes it will be until someone tell Quentin his daughter is dead.

Ooh me first.  I think he'll find out by episode 13. Since that's the episode Caity Lotz/Sara returns.  

[wonderwall]

I say the final 3 episodes of the season, most likely season finale! I mean, I hope not, but I'm pretty sure they want to drag this out as long as possible. 

[apinknightmare]

Ooh me first.  I think he'll find out by episode 13. Since that's the episode Caity Lotz/Sara returns.  

 

Suzanne Gomez tweeted about KC and PB's scenes in the second ep of the BC arc, so I think he finds out in 3x11. Or 3x12 - whichever the second ep of the trilogy is. He's got to find out soon.