Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ban1o]

Ban10, "Lone Gunmen" and "Legacies" strongly imply that Laurel and Tommy hooked up shortly after the Queen's Gambit vanished. Both of them felt guilty about this for different reasons, and they broke up until Oliver came back.

Thanks! Don't really remember that! I'll have to re-watch those episodes :P Maybe during the hiatus I'll rewtach season 1.  

 

 

About  the hints of Oliver not being always on the island, something that cracks me up every time is how not one of the people who must have seen him shirtless before the gambit (Laurel, his mom, Thea) ever questioned where  the hell did he get those tattoos lol.

LOL so true 

From the Spoilers Only thread, "we're hearing the trio might go more than a few episodes without their hooded leader."  Look, I realize that from spoilers and such, but do they really think that the best way to get people to watch is to advertise that Oliver will be missing for several episodes?  I honestly see this backfiring on them, but that's just me.

lol like I know the want people to think Oliver is totally actually dead forever, but come on, everybody knows he isn't. Anyway the spoilers is definitely a lie because we know for sure due to DR comments that he's  back in 3x14 so at most he's gone for 4 episodes. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Kordi]

What Morrigan said. It's impossible that he was on the island for five years (what he "says") while speaking fluent Russian (what he "does"). He had to learn it somewhere. Everyone remarks upon the fact that he didn't know it when he left.

Thank you for reminding me of that! I had forgotten about the Russian, sorry. Now I remember that dinner scene with his family...

[ban1o]

Well The Russian could have been explained by someone teaching him to speak Russian, like Shado started teaching him Chinese (died to soon though) and he could have met Russian mob members on the island as well. I'm curious if he will actually go to Russia on the show. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[ostentatious]

I think overhearing Tommy and Laurel in the pilot was enough to know that they were hooking up and not be shocked .He as very emotionless in the first few episodes and he didn't really have a reason to be mad considering her was "dead." lol  just don't think that really hints he had been in Starling City before. 

 

Also wasn't it implied that they had just started hooking up before Oliver returned Tommy had been mostly a playboy until then. 

Sure, technically it was enough for him to not be shocked.

 

But why was it important for the writers to script Laurel mentioning it to Tommy?

 

There is no motivation for the writers to script it if the answer is oh he overheard them earlier, Laurel just doesn't know it.

 

So it's less is it possible that it might be that he simply overheard them earlier, and more that it is unlikely that that's the answer. The entire pilot is full of lacunae like that, where you're invited to question Oliver's story. And we know that his story is false. Therefore, it is more likely than not that this isn't just a pointless line and actually means something. The writers want you to question Oliver's story, because his story is b.s.

 

And no, Laurel and Tommy seemed like an on again/off again thing to me.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ostentatious

[looptab]

 I'm curious if he will actually go to Russia on the show. 

I hope so. I want to see Anatoly (or whatever it's spelled :P) again! :)

But why was it important for the writers to script Laurel mentioning it to Tommy?

 

Because they had to show that Laurel knows him in his bones. ;)

However, while that bit of information wasn't necessarily the conclusion to be drawn, at least at the time, they sure did leave themselves some room in the narrative for retconning a few things here and there, and expand their story. I'm sure the fact that he had been back in Starling wasn't planned from as early as Season 1.

By the way, does this mean we'll have to see him pining for Laurel? Oh jeez, my eyes! lol

[SonofaBiscuit]

By the way, does this mean we'll have to see him pining for Laurel? Oh jeez, my eyes! lol

 

Well, the writers do like their parallels, so maybe flashback Oliver pining for Laurel will be offset with present-day Oliver hooking up with Felicity. 

[Danny Franks]

I hope so. I want to see Anatoly (or whatever it's spelled :P) again! :)

Because they had to show that Laurel knows him in his bones. ;)

However, while that bit of information wasn't necessarily the conclusion to be drawn, at least at the time, they sure did leave themselves some room in the narrative for retconning a few things here and there, and expand their story. I'm sure the fact that he had been back in Starling wasn't planned from as early as Season 1.

By the way, does this mean we'll have to see him pining for Laurel? Oh jeez, my eyes! lol

 

The thing that always amused me about that particular reveal was that Laurel later says, 'did you see his face? He didn't even blink!' Yet in the club scene, she never even looks at Oliver as Thea blabs. She's looking at the floor, all shamefaced, while Tommy is the one watching for Oliver's reaction.

 

In hindsight, that really was the best type of love triangle. Because one third of it really didn't let himself care what the other two were doing. I liked Oliver when he could compartmentalise like that and just say, 'I have more important things to worry about'. Less woobie face, which I'm sure you lot will still be experiencing in full force when he returns from the dead.

 

Still, it sounds like the flashbacks are getting more absurd, and painting Oliver as a bigger jackass than I'd like him to be, to explain how he didn't ever go home before. If they retcon in that he actually went back to Starling City, saw his family and friends without them knowing, and then hopped off back to Hong Kong? Dick.

 

What are the odds that they stick in a scene where he was going to go and see Laurel, but sees her and Tommy getting it on through her apartment window, just like that scene with Tommy watching them in season 1. Parallels. That's good writing, you see. The writers of this show know all the 'clever' tricks!

Edited December 16, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Kymmi]

Well, the writers do like their parallels, so maybe flashback Oliver pining for Laurel will be offset with present-day Oliver hooking up with Felicity. 

 

Pretty sure the parallel will be him pining for Laurel in the past (seeing her with Tommy) and him pining for Felicity in the present (seeing her with Ray).  And I've just given myself a stomach ache.  

[looptab]

Pretty sure the parallel will be him pining for Laurel in the past (seeing her with Tommy) and him pining for Felicity in the present (seeing her with Ray).  And I've just given myself a stomach ache.  

I hope they don't go there. I don't think it would do any good..:/ but, since we all know who we're talking about, the odds are high. :S

 

Danny franks, season 1 is a big black hole to me :D but yes, Laurel was bipolar like that from the beginning. One second shamefaced, the next one yelling she doesn't owe him an apology. BTW  I agreed with her, she really didn't. 

But I'm curious to find out how they are going to have Oliver being actually in Starling and not contacting anyone without making him look like a douche. 

[dtissagirl]

But I'm curious to find out how they are going to have Oliver being actually in Starling and not contacting anyone without making him look like a douche.

I'm kind of wondering if Waller will put one of those brain bombs up Oliver's skull. And/or Maseo's. If they go rogue she explodes them, that's motivation enough to steer clear of friends and family.

[Password]

The flash backs are becoming problematic because these writers aren't particularly good at remembering what they actually wrote. The more I see, the more I wonder at Oliver not having a psychotic break. I mean he did KILL people, but the show's lack of finesse for dealing with Oliver's multitude of issues is showing. Now, we learn he had to use torture tactics to get information. Oliver must have an enormous amount of light inside him to still be...functioning.

I really hope there are zero parallels between the first triangle and the second. As much as I enjoyed Oliver's ability to shut down his feelings in season 1, it ended in him sleeping with Laurel after telling Tommy to go get her...yeah not the healthy way to do things.

[statsgirl]

Maybe it will be like in Hong Kong and he'll try and they'll threaten to kill Thea if he does. The question is why in the world would Waller move him to Starling City when the Suicide Squad is close by to do whatever she needs Oliver to do, and do it more effectively?

 

In the pilot episode, the conversation Laurel and Tommy have in the alleyway implies that they hooked up over Oliver's death and Laurel regrets it, although Tommy regrets it not continuing.  But would they still be occasionally hooking up three years later, since Laurel kept saying it was a mistake?

 

If the parallel is him pining for Laurel in the past, and for Felicity in the present, it will really weaken his feelings for Felicity.  The point of loving Felicity is that it's completely different, more adult and faithful, than his feelings for Laurel.

 

On the other hand: I'm starting to get really annoyed by Guggenheim's twitts ;)

 

His "Who says Oliver's coming back?" makes me quite furious - not because I have doubts that Oliver will be back, but because promoting your show by stating the core element of the show may not be present after the hiatus is a marketing failure.

Hee.  Was that a Freudian slip, or did you really mean 'twit'?  (I'm hoping for the latter.)

 

I'm still wondering about this tactic of marketing Oliver away or minimal during sweeps.  Not just me, the guy who writes the We Minored in Film reviews is coming back for 3x10 to find out how the team does without Oliver and then he's not much interested in the rest.

 

I want to know how the team deals with finding out Oliver is dead, and how they react to him coming back. Given the spoilers, there's nothing in between that's must watch for me.

 

SA said he'll be in every episode, even if it's just flashbacks, and the average viewer who's not reading anything online will go, "well, if he's in the flashbacks then he's coming back soon". And then you put one short scene in each episode of Oliver in present time -- even if it's unconscious Oliver being nursed to health by Malcolm/Maseo/Nyssa/rando person, then you can milk that for 2 or 3 episodes, and you make Oliver's reunion with Team Arrow an actual thing to look forward to.

The flashbacks are already problematic for me, especially the Hong Kong flashbacks. I. don't. care. 

 

So seeing Oliver nursed back to health by a random person who is not Diggle or Felicity is just as bad as flashbacks.  There's no emotional payoff for me.

 

Well The Russian could have been explained by someone teaching him to speak Russian, like Shado started teaching him Chinese (died to soon though) and he could have met Russian mob members on the island as well. I'm curious if he will actually go to Russia on the show. 

I thought it was supposed to be an abandoned island?  If there were someone else there, wouldn't they have handed him a razor and a pair of scissors?

 

Edited, because there's no excuse for using 'was' instead of 'were'.

Edited December 16, 2014 by statsgirl

[dtissagirl]

The flashbacks are already problematic for me, especially the Hong Kong flashbacks. I. don't. care. 

 

So seeing Oliver nursed back to health by a random person who is not Diggle or Felicity is just as bad as flashbacks.  There's no emotional payoff for me.

 

I agree with you, totally. But since the EPs have said that they don't believe this show works without the flashbacks [iIRC, it was on SDCC -- one of them said they tried no flashbacks in the S1 Helena episodes, and thought the show didn't work without them], they put a lot more weight in the flashbacks than I've ever seen from online fans.

I also think that if the directive here is that Arrow is bigger than just Oliver, or "is more than one person" like SA said on Facebook, then they're banking the emotional payoff on the other characters living without Oliver and the ramifications of that.

They've already missed the point that Team Arrow >>>> everything else in 2B, so it's not even something new.

This is not what I want, btw, I wish this show was doing something else ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, but it's what I'm gleaming from the spoilers, and PR and social media from the cast and crew.

[BumpSetSpike]

 

I thought it was supposed to be an abandoned island?  If there were someone else there, wouldn't they have handed him a razor and a pair of scissors?

 

He had a razor, just no scissors apparently.  He has the same stubble throughout the entire flashbacks so far yet when they pick him off up the island, he has a 20-year beard growth.  

[quarks]

The show can use Laurel/Oliver and Laurel/Tommy flashbacks in two different ways:

 

1. Tease the audience again with Laurel/Oliver shipping moments to create more suspense about whether or not Oliver and Felicity will hook up by the finale.

 

2. Have something that tries, once again, to put yet another nail into the Laurel/Oliver coffin.

 

At this point I really don't think the show can do anything else to convince viewers that Laurel and Oliver will never, ever happen again, which is what happens when you spend a full season assuring viewers that terrible and toxic and awful as their relationship was, so awful that nearly every character on the show except Moira feels the need to point it out, they will never ever stop loving each other. But the showrunners might try. 

[chaos is welcome]

Between the latest EW thing and David Ramsey saying we have to go 4-5 eps wo Oliver.......

I just CAN NOT. No to the nth power.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Between the latest EW thing and David Ramsey saying we have to go 4-5 eps wo Oliver.......

I just CAN NOT. No to the nth power.

 

Yeah, I'm not watching 10 until I read comments because it's going to be sad and heartbreaking and awful.  Then Guggenheim used the word "Canary" to describe 11, so that's a big nope.  Not sure about 12 but 13 is literally named Canaries, so that's another big nope.  By the time the show gets to the point where I want to watch again, it'll be March and I won't even be home on Wednesday nights, so boo!

[apinknightmare]

Between the latest EW thing and David Ramsey saying we have to go 4-5 eps wo Oliver.......

I just CAN NOT. No to the nth power.

What EW thing?

[ban1o]

What EW thing?

It's posted in SPOILERS. EW said that Oliver might be gone from the trio for more than a few episodes. Don't  think it's true though since DR said Team Arrow (including Stephen) have been shooting in the foundry and they are currently filming episode 14.But  I guess 4 is considered more than a few lol. 

 

And that's if you don't count episode 13 pictures of Oliver which since it's the Vertigo episode is debatable if Oliver is real or not or it could be a scene at the end of the episode perhaps. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

Maybe Oliver can say that he's glad that Tommy and Laurel have found happiness with each other, as he moved on with Shado.  It would help to explain why Laurel's picture disappeared in s2, and honour what Oliver has with Shado.  It won't help much with why Oliver jumped into Laurel's bed the first chance he thought he could have her, screwing over his best friend who believed in him far more than Laurel did, but they'll have to live with that or retcon it with Stone Cold Oliver.

 

They have to try to convince viewers that Oliver/Laurel won't happen again because to do anything else would spoil his relationship with Felicity.  She rejected him because he wasn't all in, now he's left her saying that he loves her and to start again with Oliver/Laurel is going to anger the Felicity fanbase, which appears to be considerably larger than the Laurel one.

 

 

I also think that if the directive here is that Arrow is bigger than just Oliver, or "is more than one person" like SA said on Facebook, then they're banking the emotional payoff on the other characters living without Oliver and the ramifications of that.

They've already missed the point that Team Arrow >>>> everything else in 2B, so it's not even something new.

Thus showing they really didn't learn from last year's mistakes after all.

 

I can buy that Arrow is bigger than just Oliver, but that's dependent on which person it's shown to be bigger with, and all the spoilers for 311-314 are about characters I don't care about.  It's like the flashbacks, I don't care but they don't annoy me unless they take over the show and I'm not getting what I want, as happened in  2B.  If I have to watch to see the emotional payoff of living without Oliver, I want it to be Diggle and Felicity, and maybe Roy a bit, not Roy or Thea or Malcolm and not Laurel.

Edited December 16, 2014 by statsgirl

[ban1o]

Posted a Laurel/Tommy flashback scene in spoilers. I'm surprised Katie didn't wear a wig since her hair is so blonde now. 

Also posted a picture of Thea in flashbacks. I'm trying to debate whether or not she can pass as 15 or not lol. 

[Kymmi]

I feel the same way.  Laurel's hair was so much darker in the pilot (I actually preferred the brunette on her, but as someone that lightens my own hair, I can't criticize LOL) Thea is definitely pushing the ability to pass as 15.  And that wig.  I don't like the wigs they use on this show as a whole, but both Thea's and Oliver's is horrendous.  Oliver's is even worse than usual, and I didn't know that was possible.

[apinknightmare]

I feel the same way.  Laurel's hair was so much darker in the pilot (I actually preferred the brunette on her, but as someone that lightens my own hair, I can't criticize LOL) Thea is definitely pushing the ability to pass as 15.  And that wig.  I don't like the wigs they use on this show as a whole, but both Thea's and Oliver's is horrendous.  Oliver's is even worse than usual, and I didn't know that was possible.

 

Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't put a wig on Katie too. And it wouldn't even have to look that great at the top since she has a hat on. How weird. 

 

UNLESS ZOMBIE TOMMY IS A GO AND THIS ISN'T A FLASHBACK

 

j/k

 

Oliver's is godawful. Good lord, I was always hoping he'd take a shower, but...and I hate myself for this...I prefer it dirty.

[BkWurm1]

I'm surprised Katie didn't wear a wig since her hair is so blonde now.

 

Some people are always changing her hair.  I can buy that she's done the blond thing before.

 

 

He has the same stubble throughout the entire flashbacks so far yet when they pick him off up the island, he has a 20-year beard growth.

 

I'm going to have to go with a magical herb that makes hair, especially facial hair, grow in thickness and length at an incredible speed.  At some point Oliver will remember this herb he discovered and bring it to the market, thus regaining his fortune. 

[KirkB]

I'm going to have to go with a magical herb that makes hair, especially facial hair, grow in thickness and length at an incredible speed.  At some point Oliver will remember this herb he discovered and bring it to the market, thus regaining his fortune.

 

Makes sense. There were apparently a lot of plot convenient plants on that damn island.

[Chaser]

Catching up on so many spoilers. 

 

Maybe the point of the Laurel/Tommy flashbacks isn't so much a parallel of Oliver's pining, but of Laurel and Felicity's reactions to him being gone. Laurel falls into whatever she does with Tommy, but Felicity rejects Ray. Girl can hope right? Lol

 

Regarding the dialogue tease, my first guess was actually Thea. Maybe the Team lets Thea in on whats been going on and Roy tells her he still loves her (assuming he remembers of course) and thats her guilt-ridden response. 

 

I like some of the characters in the Hong Kong FBs, but the only FBs I want to see are the Russians ones.

[statsgirl]

I wonder if the Amell's Christmas party this year is going to include a Bad Wig contest. Robbie can bring his from Firestorm.

 

 

Maybe the point of the Laurel/Tommy flashbacks isn't so much a parallel of Oliver's pining, but of Laurel and Felicity's reactions to him being gone. Laurel falls into whatever she does with Tommy, but Felicity rejects Ray. Girl can hope right? Lol

Gosh, I hope so. That would be really great. At this point, there isn't anything in 11 - 14 I'm looking forward to.

 

I'm looking forward to the Russian FBs too. I wonder if Oliver puts his hair in a ponytail to show he's a tough guy meaning business.  But season 5 is island FBs again?  That's going to be annoying.

[Password]

Cripes the more I think about Ray-Felicity the more complicated it seems. I desperately want Felicity to be happy, and for reasons unknown she's taken with Ray.

...I keep thinking to myself "but it's RAY" as if that makes it obvious why he's a terrible option. I just...good luck making Felicity not look like ass whilst getting into a relationship with Ray. Whatever happens, it'll forever be overshadowed by the view that she's probably still mourning Oliver's death going into a relationship with him. And I do assume by ep 14 Raylicity will be a go. Even Ray had a year to mourn (which isn't long) but 3 months? Not to mention Felicity was Oliver's final thought before being pushed off a cliff. Yeeeeeah. Good luck.

The more I think about it, the more it seems Oliver will have to yet again push her away to make it believable that she'd get into something with Ray. Even though that quote is probably Olicity (oh please let it be someone else) this show doesn't always deal with those intense, rightful emotions concerning Felicity in the right way. It'd be easy for her to say to zombie-Oliver she doesn't want to be a woman he loves.

If she DOES say it if, perhaps Oliver wants to get into a relationship but she's like "nope I have no time to sit and wait for your real death" I'd do a slow clap. But we'll see what happens I guess.

[BkWurm1]

Even though that quote is probably Olicity (oh please let it be someone else) this show doesn't always deal with those intense, rightful emotions concerning Felicity in the right way. It'd be easy for her to say to zombie-Oliver she doesn't want to be a woman he loves

 

I can't imagine the line except in the context that him loving her from afar is not what she wants.  So he loves her, great, now do something about it. 

[Ariah]

I'm hoping the quote, if it's from Felicity, is taken from her "epic" breakdown scene, in which she's talking to Oliver's quiver / bow / costume, alone in the Foundry.

 

There was a tiny quote from EBR, where she said that she cannot imagine Felicity not talking to Oliver anymore - now granted, it's logical it was about the period after the date and the breakup, but perhaps - just perhaps - the writers will give us a heart-clenching scene of Felicity mourning and talking to Oliver's belongings: "I don't want to be a woman you love if it means you're not coming back. Please, let things be the way they used to be, I don't need anything else, just be here. Just be alive."

[TanyaKay]

The show can use Laurel/Oliver and Laurel/Tommy flashbacks in two different ways:

1. Tease the audience again with Laurel/Oliver shipping moments to create more suspense about whether or not Oliver and Felicity will hook up by the finale.

2. Have something that tries, once again, to put yet another nail into the Laurel/Oliver coffin.

At this point I really don't think the show can do anything else to convince viewers that Laurel and Oliver will never, ever happen again, which is what happens when you spend a full season assuring viewers that terrible and toxic and awful as their relationship was, so awful that nearly every character on the show except Moira feels the need to point it out, they will never ever stop loving each other. But the showrunners might try.

You never know with the show runners - everything from episode 2x06 - 2x10 was pointing at Oliver and Felicity's romance, in fact even episode 2x13 also hinted at that when Oliver assured Felicity that she will never lose him but bam, at the end of the episode we had a lunge and Sara/Oliver romance started.

This season, we've had 6 Olicity strong episodes (3x01, 3x02, 3x05, 3x07, 3x08, 3x09) on Arrow and two Olicity heavy episodes on The Flash (1x04 and 1x08) with multiple direct and indirect declarations of love by Oliver and Felicity admitting it to Barry how she feels about Oliver. In addition, we've had characters like Diggle and Barry who also commented on the feelings these characters have for each other. But one can never really trust these writers and how they would want to tease at, or at least make some kind of reference to, Oliver and Laurel's doomed romance. I think it would be in absolute worst taste and a disservice to this season's story telling.

Edited December 17, 2014 by TanyaKay

[ban1o]

It would make sense to at least reference it though. I mean for the whole first season he was "in love" with her and hooked up with her the first opportunity he got. And while he was on the island apparently he kept her picture/thought of her the whole time. But don't worry I doubt they will. They seem to have ignored the Oliver/Laurel romance/relationship all season. Don't see them stopping that anytime soon.  

Edited December 17, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

I agree, I think they do need to talk about Oliver's feelings for Laurel and the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle and put it into context with respect to how the EPs are thinking today.

 

I just hope they don't compare Laurel's feelings then to Felicity's feelings now. No good could come of that, IMO.

[Kordi]

I don't know if this has already been addressed, but could the title of 3x14 ("The Return") possibly refer to a return of General Matthew Shrieve (Marc Singer) to... whatever place? From MG twitter spoilers we know it does not refer to a return of Oliver or Slade. However, maybe there is a connection between past-time Slade and/ or past-time Oliver we will hear about in 3x14?

This is what I have read about Shrieve (Singer):

"Singer will join the Arrow gang as General Matthew Shrieve. Arrow, which features current stories intercut with flashbacks to Oliver Queen’s time away from his home city, will have Shrieve play a significant role in Oliver’s upcoming season three flashbacks. In DC Comics, Shrieve is the leader of the Creature Commandos. The Creature Commandos were originally a team of military superhumans (referred to as metahumans in the television world) during World War II and included a werewolf, a vampire, Frankenstein’s monster, and a gorgon. It’s likely the show won’t go exactly the same route with the character. Singer will first appear in episode 14 of the third season."

quoted from: http://www.themovienetwork.com/article/marc-singer-joins-arrow#sthash.oE2LW2K9.dpuf

[dtissagirl]

I have a feeling them keeping Laurel and Oliver in complete separate storylines has nothing to do with romance. I bet the EPs have cold sweaty frightening NIGHTMARES about that picture on the island, and they wish they could go back and erase it from existence. Can you imagine the potential season five that picture gets us? Oliver all snarky and fun and Green Arrow-y, in a loving stable relationship with Felicity... and the flashbacks to the island are him pining for another woman? Embarrassing doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

But they need Black Canary to exist outside of Green Arrow. They did it with Sara, and they're gonna have to do it again with Laurel. Because one of the biggest complains they get from the comic book fans about Laurel becoming Black Canary is that it can't be under Oliver's tutelage. And I think they're gonna do that -- Laurel is gonna be BC without Oliver's influence, positive or negative. I think they might be tying it to the people who are important to her independent of Oliver -- Sara in 313, Tommy in 314 -- the two people who have told her previously that they believe she's always trying to save the world.

[looptab]

I have a feeling them keeping Laurel and Oliver in complete separate storylines has nothing to do with romance. I bet the EPs have cold sweaty frightening NIGHTMARES about that picture on the island, and they wish they could go back and erase it from existence. Can you imagine the potential season five that picture gets us? Oliver all snarky and fun and Green Arrow-y, in a loving stable relationship with Felicity... and the flashbacks to the island are him pining for another woman? Embarrassing doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

I was just thinking about this..how are they going to deal with that? That picture truly is a nightmare ahah. Bet it will make an appearance in 314, though.

By the way, did he still have it when he came back to Starling?

[Hipkarma]

I was just thinking about this..how are they going to deal with that? That picture truly is a nightmare ahah. Bet it will make an appearance in 314, though.

By the way, did he still have it when he came back to Starling?

Yes he did have it. You see it stuck in the bottom corner of a photo frame on the desk in his room in the early s1 episodes.

[looptab]

Yes he did have it. You see it stuck in the bottom corner of a photo frame on the desk in his room in the early s1 episodes.

Damn! lol Thank you, I just recalled it showing every now and then in flashback. It's not fair, though: I can't take a 5 minutes walk without losings things from my pockets, yet that pic manages to survive safe in his pocket despite Oliver getting blown up in the air and beaten and almost drowning. :p 

Anyway, the thing I'm looking forward to the most is Slade's return. More than Oliver's comeback, surely more than the rise of LL. Do you think he'll be in the Suicide squad?

[dtissagirl]

I was just thinking about this..how are they going to deal with that? That picture truly is a nightmare ahah. Bet it will make an appearance in 314, though.

By the way, did he still have it when he came back to Starling?

 

I can't decide if they're just gonna ignore the picture until the last possible minute when they actually have to deal with it [i.e. in the last episode of season five], or if they're gonna keep bringing it up on flashbacks to minimize its importance -- thus saying to the audience, "forget what you saw in the pilot, that was not at all the point we were trying to make, even though it totally was the cornerstone of our five-year plan to attach Oliver's humanity to the love of a woman, IF ONLY IT HAD WORKED WITH THE FIRST WOMAN, many apologies".

 

They've kinda done some minimizing of the picture last season when Sara showed up on the island, and Shado asked Oliver about the girl in the picture. Celina Jade -- bless her expressive eyes -- looked at Oliver as if he were A WORM TO BE SQUASHED. But yeah, if they wanna lampshade how much they want the audience to move on from that picture, the flashbacks in 314 would be the perfect time to make another derisive comment about it.

[looptab]

I can't decide if they're just gonna ignore the picture until the last possible minute when they actually have to deal with it [i.e. in the last episode of season five], or if they're gonna keep bringing it up on flashbacks to minimize its importance -- thus saying to the audience, "forget what you saw in the pilot, that was not at all the point we were trying to make, even though it totally was the cornerstone of our five-year plan to attach Oliver's humanity to the love of a woman, IF ONLY IT HAD WORKED WITH THE FIRST WOMAN, many apologies".

 

They've kinda done some minimizing of the picture last season when Sara showed up on the island, and Shado asked Oliver about the girl in the picture. Celina Jade -- bless her expressive eyes -- looked at Oliver as if he were A WORM TO BE SQUASHED. But yeah, if they wanna lampshade how much they want the audience to move on from that picture, the flashbacks in 314 would be the perfect time to make another derisive comment about it.

LOL I swear, your comments have me always laughing alone like a crazy person, especially the ones about Crazy Eyes Ray and how he's minutes away from eating Felicity. So, thanks for that :)

 

However, I agree, they'll keep minimizing its importance, at least while they're still aboard the Olicity train and if they don't decide (God forbid) to give Lauriver another go. I think one nice way they could extricate themselves from it is if in season 5 they try to convey the message that Oliver was so hellbent on fixing past mistakes and Laurel was the symbol of it. So in a way fixing things with her would erase the last five years, or something like that. At least that's what I wish they'd do. :)

[Morrigan2575]

You never know with the show runners - everything from episode 2x06 - 2x10 was pointing at Oliver and Felicity's romance, in fact even episode 2x13 also hinted at that when Oliver assured Felicity that she will never lose him but bam, at the end of the episode we had a lunge and Sara/Oliver romance started.

 

Except that whole Sara/Oliver romance was done specifically to set up the ILY gotcha in the finale.  MG said before it even started, in like December/January that there was another Olicity roadblock on the way, once Barry went into the coma.  There was no intention in the EPs minds of switching ships mid-season or abandoning Olicity...as stupid as it was, O/S was clearly done to stall Olicity in S2 so they could end with the ILY fakeout that wasn't really a fakeout.  Olicity has been the only ship these writers have been sailing since May 2013...when they basically gave a postmortem interview saying that they had to wrap up the O/L/T triangle before they could move onto Felicity.

 

I'm not saying they won't do something equally as stupid in S3, and have Oliver come back from the dead and for Felicity to run into Ray's arms because she's sacred of her feelings for Oliver or what have you.  It would be some lame twisted version of O/S from S2 but it would be the same thing, a pointless relationship with no build up, done just to delay until 323

Edited December 17, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

LOL I swear, your comments have me always laughing alone like a crazy person, especially the ones about Crazy Eyes Ray and how he's minutes away from eating Felicity. So, thanks for that :)

 

However, I agree, they'll keep minimizing its importance, at least while they're still aboard the Olicity train and if they don't decide (God forbid) to give Lauriver another go. I think one nice way they could extricate themselves from it is if in season 5 they try to convey the message that Oliver was so hellbent on fixing past mistakes and Laurel was the symbol of it. So in a way fixing things with her would erase the last five years, or something like that. At least that's what I wish they'd do. :)

 

Hahaha, thank you. <3

 

And I like your idea a lot, hopefully that's how it plays out. I think it makes sense if they make the picture + Robert's book a combo of things Oliver felt he had to fix, yeah.

 

To keep this on topic: one of the reasons I'm clinging to the ZOMBIE TOMMY theory is that Tommy made me like Laurel. It's as simple as that. Even if he comes back evil, or crazy, or whatever, that's a relationship I can root for, because I already did once. I'm actually interested in the Tommy/Laurel scenes in 314, because if they hint that Tommy had real feelings for Laurel from the start -- maybe even from back when she was with Oliver, that changes Laurel's love interest endgame in an interesting way. And then I'm not gonna be ruling out the S3 finale shocker! being Zombie Tommy.

[Sunshine]

Well they did say Laurel would be getting a new love interest this season.  They didn't say who it was.  Everyone just assumed it was Ted Grant because he was much younger than his comics counterpart.  Maybe its Zombie Tommy?

[Axel]

Catching up on so many spoilers. 

 

Maybe the point of the Laurel/Tommy flashbacks isn't so much a parallel of Oliver's pining, but of Laurel and Felicity's reactions to him being gone. Laurel falls into whatever she does with Tommy, but Felicity rejects Ray. Girl can hope right? Lol

 

 

 

Honestly I don't see it happening. The show doesn't parallel or compare Felicity and Laurel, we do, and the show never implied the girls moving on was a bad decision.

 

The show is written through Oliver's perspective, so it's more likely supposed to parallel something between Past!Oliver and present : like for example in the past Oliver truly loses his humanity after going to SC ( watching his sister becoming an adult he barely recognizes, the love of his life moving on with his best friend, a stranger running his father's company and sleeping with his mother : all the people he wanted to return to so much moved on and his father and him have been erased and replaced by others people ) which had a direct impact on how Oliver acted when he finally returns to SC in the pilot. This contrasting with Oliver in the present, (who in 3A kinda saw this happening again : his company run by a stranger, the girl he loves moving on, his sister not being who he thought she was anymore etc...) returning to SC after another "death" but this time deciding to fight to get his life back. Just an example.

 

 

 

I'm not saying they won't do something equally as stupid in S3, and have Oliver come back from the dead and for Felicity to run into Ray's arms because she's sacred of her feelings for Oliver or what have you.  It would be some lame twisted version of O/S from S2 but it would be the same thing, a pointless relationship with no build up, done just to delay until 323

 

But Ray-Felicity is a pointless relationship done just to delay until 323 and give the characters something to do (something which at some point has an impact on Oliver)

[Morrigan2575]

But Ray-Felicity is a pointless relationship done just to delay until 323 and give the characters something to do (something which at some point has an impact on Oliver)

 

I agree, it is.  

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm choosing to remain positive.  Many times present-day Oliver makes the opposite choice that flashback Oliver did.  If flashback Oliver sees a happy Laurel with Tommy, maybe the anger pushes him to embrace the darker parts of himself.  When present-day Oliver comes back to Felicity, who's been utterly destroyed by his death, maybe that finally pushes him to embrace the "light" (cheesy, I know).  I don't see the writers/EPs wanting Felicity to look bad, so I don't think she's going to be moving on with Ray in the 8-10 weeks where Oliver is "dead."  Now I suppose we could time jump ahead (and skip the time jump over the break between seasons) to put Felicity with Ray and Laurel in the BC costume, but that would unnecessarily complicate the timeline, so I'm not sure they would do that.

[NumberCruncher]

They've kinda done some minimizing of the picture last season when Sara showed up on the island, and Shado asked Oliver about the girl in the picture. Celina Jade -- bless her expressive eyes -- looked at Oliver as if he were A WORM TO BE SQUASHED. But yeah, if they wanna lampshade how much they want the audience to move on from that picture, the flashbacks in 314 would be the perfect time to make another derisive comment about it.

Hee! I loved that moment because Shado was side-eying Oliver so hard in that scene. Also, didn't Slade throw shade at Oliver over the whole sister swapping thing in one of the island flashbacks? The Lian Yu inhabitants were spilling truth tea all over the place. I don't think that was by accident.

 

 

To keep this on topic: one of the reasons I'm clinging to the ZOMBIE TOMMY theory is that Tommy made me like Laurel. It's as simple as that. Even if he comes back evil, or crazy, or whatever, that's a relationship I can root for, because I already did once. I'm actually interested in the Tommy/Laurel scenes in 314, because if they hint that Tommy had real feelings for Laurel from the start -- maybe even from back when she was with Oliver, that changes Laurel's love interest endgame in an interesting way. And then I'm not gonna be ruling out the S3 finale shocker! being Zombie Tommy.

I'm completely with you on this. As much as I loathe back-from-the-dead storylines, I'd be more than willing to make an exception in Tommy's case because A) I love Colin Donnell so much and B) the Laurel/Tommy romance was literally the only time I've ever enjoyed Laurel scenes. I thought they were really cute together and they made each other better. If bringing back Tommy can make me enjoy Laurel more I say "bring it on" because I'm tired of feeling complete nothingness from her scenes/storyline. Yes, I know that my inner feminist is screaming right now that I'm seemingly defining a female character by her male love interest and that's a big no-no in my book, but if that's what it takes so that I don't have to fast-forward her scenes altogether, I'm willing to do just that.

Edited December 17, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[KirkB]

But given how much the EP's have latched on to the grim and grittiness of Nolan's Batman, CAN they ever really lighten Oliver up? Their whole mission statement seems to be breaking Oliver down so they can rebuild him as the Green Arrow, but even if he doesn't generally kill anymore they can't ever really have him be the cheerful, quippy rogue from the comics because it would change the tone of the show they have been building all this time. Light and quippy works on Flash, but not on Arrow unless they plan to change it, and they don't seem to like to change their plans.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Given how massively dark and broody and manpain-y Oliver is they can definitely lighten him up a bit without making him actually cheerful, because God knows he's light years away from that. Instead of quippy, they can make him snarky, which he kinda already is. There's humor in the guy and it peeks out every now and then, especially when he's with Diggle and Felicity, even with Thea and Roy, so I'd love to see a little bit more of that. It won't feel like a 180, but more in line with actual progression for his character.

 

On another note, I loved Tommy, but please God, no resurrecting Tommy. Or Moira. Or Sara. Or anyone we know is really dead. Except for Oliver, because, well, "Arrow." I've always had a problem with bringing the dead back. Even with Slade and Deadshot, characters I also like. Too many false deaths, resurrections and it loses meaning, IMO.

[Sakura12]

Isn't Colin Donnell busy getting a teenager pregnant on the Affair? I know he can show up for a few minutes for a ep or two but I don't think he can come back full time being on another show. 

Edited December 17, 2014 by Sakura12