Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ostentatious]

I'm really confused. What I took from the promo was that Thea is implicated so Oliver claims he did it to protect her.

 

Now I see nobody else heard it that way...? What did I miss?

[MarDelSol]

Then he'd have to tell her he's the Arrow in this ep-and there's no indication he's doing that either. It's just impossible to tell from promos at this point, other than regardless of who is ultimately responsible, Oliver's giving himself up to Ra's for Sara's murder.

 

No. I think it'll go something like this:

 

Oliver is worried about Ra's threat on the city. He meets up with Thea for Christmas. He hugs her extra tight and says that line about protecting her, to which she's obviously confused. "What do you mean?" "Just that I'll always be there for you/It's nothing/whatever."

 

I can't really buy Thea as the killer. Nothing about the character in the past 2+ seasons point to that. I'd buy Sara's own sister being the murderer before Thea. At least there's history to back that supposition. It looks like Oliver confronts Malcolm, but I wonder if he confronts Thea about it. Probably not, because that's too easy.

 

I'm guessing he doesn't confront Malcolm about the murder. He finds out Thea's been hanging around with him and that's what enrages him, probably threatening him to stay away.

 

Only the audience will find out about who killed Sara. Team Arrow will think Oliver was framed. He'll go off to Ra's to demand a trial by combat. One of the last scenes of the episode will reveal Thea being the real killer (barf). Then the show will drag this crap out until episode 12 when Sin reveals whatever and the characters figure it out. Then lots of terrible melodrama follows.

Edited December 8, 2014 by MarDelSol

[apinknightmare]

I'm really confused. What I took from the promo was that Thea is implicated so Oliver claims he did it to protect her.

 

Now I see nobody else heard it that way...? What did I miss?

 

I think previous trailers made it seem more likely that Thea was implicated - this one had nothing to do with her at all, and threw in the bonus "shocker" that it's ~Oliver's DNA that Caitlin found on the arrow. 

 

I do think he goes to protect Thea, but there isn't anything in the preview that was posted today to suggest that.

[Password]

I'm really confused. What I took from the promo was that Thea is implicated so Oliver claims he did it to protect her.

Now I see nobody else heard it that way...? What did I miss?

The Asian promo showed the DNA was Oliver's. That's why we're speculating Thea because they share DNA.

[apinknightmare]

The Asian promo showed the DNA was Oliver's. That's why we're speculating Thea because they share DNA.

 

What I don't get is - surely whatever's left of the DNA would indicate whether it belonged to a male or female. It looked like Felicity pulled up Oliver's A.R.G.U.S. profile, so maybe she ran it through their system and it just detected certain markers and compared it against information they had in their database. Maybe there isn't anything about Thea in the database since she's not a criminal (yet)? Or maybe someone legit planted Oliver's DNA on it and Thea has nothing to do with the being framed part, and everything to do with being a target for Ra's to motivate Oliver to turn over Sara's killer? Or maybe it's a faulty result since everyone and their mother seems to have been in contact with those arrows and who the hell knows what's on them, haha. 

 

Can it just be Wednesday already?

[Password]

Yes I concur about whether it's female or male. We'll find out what they come up with on Wednesday, frankly this is something they might gloss over.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Given that Sara was murdered in her BC outfit and laid around for a while in it, I hope Laurel wouldn't wear it.

 

I don't think Laurel dressing up to fool anyone is likely, I'm just trying to figure out a scenario in which Laurel would NEED to suit up (per MG), and that's the only one I can come up with. Why would anyone on Team Arrow ask her to do that? Even if they need a presence in Starling with Oliver gone, I don't think any of them would ever ask her to put herself in danger when she's obviously not ready yet. But...who knows, I guess.

 

See, that's the thing. I don't think anyone's going to actually ask her to suit up, least of all Team Arrow. I mean, I don't think they even know she's been taking boxing lessons, and even if they did, they wouldn't ask her to go out and become a vigilante. Digg is more likely to suit up while Oliver is gone just to maintain the "green" presence (although I hope there will be criminals going, "Damn, that green guy took steroids. He looks much bigger these days!" Anyway, back to Laurel, if she's going to suit up, I think she's going to do it on her own, thinking she'd have to protect "her" city while Oliver is gone. Maybe ...

[apinknightmare]

See, that's the thing. I don't think anyone's going to actually ask her to suit up, least of all Team Arrow. I mean, I don't think they even know she's been taking boxing lessons, and even if they did, they wouldn't ask her to go out and become a vigilante. Digg is more likely to suit up while Oliver is gone just to maintain the "green" presence (although I hope there will be criminals going, "Damn, that green guy took steroids. He looks much bigger these days!" Anyway, back to Laurel, if she's going to suit up, I think she's going to do it on her own, thinking she'd have to protect "her" city while Oliver is gone. Maybe ...

 

That's why I thought she might put the outfit on to fool her parents - because MG said that something happens in this ep that makes it necessary for her to suit up. Maybe he's being a lying liar who lies, of course, but what could possibly necessitate her putting on that outfit? The team would never ask her to do it...I just don't get it. I guess we'll find out soon.

Edited December 8, 2014 by apinknightmare

[MarDelSol]

Yes I concur about whether it's female or male. We'll find out what they come up with on Wednesday, frankly this is something they might gloss over.

 

Of course. This is the same show where the head writer, a former lawyer, forgot that conflict of interest was a thing.

[ban1o]

Do you guys really think they're going to have Laurel lie about Sara and then dress up 5 weeks later to pretend to be Sara?  

 

That's really, really out there...I mean talk about character assassination and I don't even like the character.

agreed. And that will only make people hate Laurel. Really doubt that will happen. 

[looptab]

Ok, I'm going to get this out even if it's a very dumb theory..

but what if they go with something a la "Mission Impossible" with the face mask etc? There is a shot in the NZ promo where they are looking at the computers in the Foundry, on the left screen there is Oliver profile, on the right one pictures of someone that looks like Oliver (it's not very clear). So I've been thinking, what if  Malcolm (or someone else)was strolling around town disguised as Oliver, then murdered Sara and framed him? I know it doesn't make any sense but so do a lot of things on this show lol. It's just that they look so concerned, like Felicity is saying "Here, that wednesday at 11:30 you were shopping for groceries" and Oliver is like "I never shop for groceries!"

Or it's Oliver Evil Twin. One of these two :D

[writersblock51]

Do you guys really think they're going to have Laurel lie about Sara and then dress up 5 weeks later to pretend to be Sara?  

 

That's really, really out there...I mean talk about character assassination and I don't even like the character.

Yes, I think that's a distinct possibility. But she's doing it out of love, to protect her parents. But it's really all about her.

 

If this happens, I hope Quentin continues digging beyond leaving heart breaking messages on Sara's phone.

[Kordi]

Ok, I'm going to get this out even if it's a very dumb theory..

but what if they go with something a la "Mission Impossible" with the face mask etc?

Haha, I like this theory. Let me try to develop it a little bit more.

We know from the spoilers that Maseo is alive and with the LOA. Furthermore, MG said some time ago in an interview (?) the whole murder plot is the most convoluted thing they'd ever done on the show... So here is my (pretty wild and convoluted) speculation:

Maseo is Sara's murderer. When he killed her, he wore a mask that made him look like Oliver (while wearing the Green Arrow suit, too, in order to make his disguise complete). Since Sara thought (at least for a short moment) she saw Oliver she didn't expect any attack and let her guard down. Maseo shot Sara with a black arrow that had Oliver's DNA on it. He did this to set two opposing parties on wrong tracks: The black arrow was used in order to make Team Arrow think that somebody from the LOA was responsible for Sara's death. The DNA was on the arrow in order to trick Nyssa and the LOA into thinking that Oliver committed the crime.

Why would Maseo do all this? Because he is an undercover ARGUS agent who has infiltrated the league. ARGUS wants to defeat Ra's, but for some reason they can't/ don't want to do this on their own. Instead they want Oliver to do the job for them. Therefore, ARGUS looked for a way to stirr up a conflict between him and the LOA, and so they developed the plan to kill Sara...

Well, as I said, just some wild and convoluted speculation... but since I don't trust the writers to come up with something more decent, it may be nevertheless close to the truth IMO :-)

[ostentatious]

I honestly think that they will have Laurel do anything no matter how nonsensical.

 

Thing is, we have no idea what Laurel might do or not do in any given situation because there is no consistency to her choices. Never has been.

 

But with the choice to withhold this information from her father, Laurel moved out of "would Laurel do this?" territory and into "would a human do this?" territory. So now, Laurel also might do or not do anything at all, even if it doesn't make sense in a basic human nature way. It's like they roll a D20 to decide.

 

So I can buy that they would have her put on the suit to fool her parents, sure. That makes as much sense as not telling them in the first place.

[dtissagirl]

It's not even that I don't agree with the theory that someone is legit trying to frame Oliver [it's probably what happened?], but I can find so many problems with the writing that it hurts my brain. So someone goes to the trouble of planting Oliver's DNA on an arrow, but then doesn't make sure that evidence is easily found? It's the world's worst murder planner.

 

I mean, the chain of evidence is D-O-N-E. You just can't trust it. Oliver's DNA might as well have come from residual butt sweat he left anywhere in the Arrow cave, that accidentally got onto that arrow while Laurel was sitting there waiting for a whole night. I sure as hell don't think Laurel took any precautionary measures to ensure no contamination happened, because SHE MOVED THE BODY.

 

And then what, this person trying to frame Oliver just sat pretty and waited until the one day when Felicity goes to Central City and asks her new BFF Caitlin for help with the DNA? Maybe it was Dr. Wells, 'cause he was the only one who could predict that.

 

I just wish they weren't trying to go high crime here, because it's the kind of storytelling that assumes the audience is not only dumb, but that everybody watching never saw an episode of crime TV in their entire lives.

 

PS: I think the assumption that Thea is involved somehow also comes from Felicity's virtual autopsy thingy that said the killer was short. But maybe that's just shitty writing with no payoff as well. UGH.

Edited December 8, 2014 by dancingnancy

[blixie]

 

What I don't get is - surely whatever's left of the DNA would indicate whether it belonged to a male or female.

 

Ugh DNA is unique, that's entire fucking point of using it no two people should have the same DNA, if it says it's Oliver it's because it's Oliver's DNA. I hope to hell if Oliver thinks it's Thea, and thus he does the combat dance, it's because Malcolm mind fucks him and tells him it was her and poor SIMPLE Oliver believes him. I can not with this whole story. There is no way it's Thea, and if it is, god, that is so dumb, and lacking in narrative sense. Which granted won't stop Guggenheim, but feh.

 

Le'ts kill Sara and have Thea do it because SHOCKING SHOCK SHOCK! She is mad at Oliver so she murders Sara. Sure. 

[Axel]

That's why I thought she might put the outfit on to fool her parents - because MG said that something happens in this ep that makes it necessary for her to suit up. Maybe he's being a lying liar who lies, of course, but what could possibly necessitate her putting on that outfit? The team would never ask her to do it...I just don't get it. I guess we'll find out soon.

 

Or once Oliver gone, Team Arrow shuts down its business. Felicity takes time for herself, Diggle is already half out because of baby, Roy...is not exactly a team all by himself. That lets Laurel "always saving the world" who decides to take over with the vigilante thing. Then, Team Arrow reunites, if anything, to stop her from being killed at every turn

 

Now that I look closely there's a very short scene about Oliver involvement in the NZ promo, too. I think there's Malcolm behind it all. Still don't know how though :)

 

hmmm To frame Thea and cut her ties with Roy, Oliver etc...? And it ends up incriminating Oliver ? Whatever, it will all end up being Ra's

 

Why would Maseo do all this? Because he is an undercover ARGUS agent who has infiltrated the league. ARGUS wants to defeat Ra's, but for some reason they can't/ don't want to do this on their own. Instead they want Oliver to do the job for them. Therefore, ARGUS looked for a way to stirr up a conflict between him and the LOA, and so they developed the plan to kill Sara...

 

 

^Or this

[SonofaBiscuit]

Wouldn't gender be one of the easiest things to determine from the DNA sample?   During the course of this "investigation," why haven't they bothered to establish whether the evidence is pointing to a male or female??  So if the DNA is a match to Oliver, but it turns out that Thea is really the killer, I'm going to seriously side-eye this ridiculousness. 

[apinknightmare]

Wouldn't gender be one of the easiest things to determine from the DNA sample?   During the course of this "investigation," why haven't they bothered to establish whether the evidence is pointing to a male or female??  So if the DNA is a match to Oliver, but it turns out that Thea is really the killer, I'm going to seriously side-eye this ridiculousness. 

 

It would. I was just wondering if what Caitlin said about some of the markers being difficult to determine was laying the groundwork for it being inconclusive regarding gender (not sure if this is even possible - my knowledge of DNA is limited, haha) or if that was only a way to buy an extra week's worth of time for the show. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Axel]

^It would. Even the "confusion" between two half-sibling shouldn't be hard to determine. But their stories have so many plotholes anyway...

[Carrie Ann]

I like that we're getting to the Reverse Vampires stage of our theorizing here. 

[ostentatious]

Hmm.

 

In my ongoing quest to remain convinced that it's Tommy...

 

What if the results Felicity is seeing are actually somehow pointing not toward Thea, but toward a male sibling. I mean, they have as much business actually testing against Thea herself as they have testing against Oliver himself so it could happen. Maybe they mean they're running it against a database and for some reason Thea is in there. ANYWAY.

 

Felicity's "You did" is just her looking at "male half sibling of subject x (ie Thea)" and saying "You did" because that's the obvious answer to her.

 

They assume it's Oliver because well, he's Thea's male sibling and they're too dumb to remember that people don't stay dead and that it actually makes more sense for it to be Zombie!Tommy than for it to be Oliver, since Felicity was actually listening in on the conversation he had with Barry, so he has two witnesses for his alibi.

 

Article about familial search of DNA in CODIS, which presumably they're hacking at some point.

 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100616/0148599844.shtml

Edited December 8, 2014 by ostentatious

[statsgirl]

There are 23 pairs of chromosomes.  22 pairs have 2 sets of chromosomes with double arms.  One set has either double arms (XX) or one double and one single (XY).  (That's why there are sex-linked diseases like hemophilia, because the Y chromosome doesn't have an arm for a gene  to nullify the bad one.)

 

Most DNA matching is done looking by denaturing and complicated process , that's how you can tell which individual person the DNA belongs to provided you have a copy of their DNA in your data base.  However, to find out what sex the individual is, all you need is a really good microscope.

 

If  they're looking at the blood and thinking it's Oliver's, it has to be planted.

 

You can read about the different ways to analyze DNA here.  (It's really cool.)

 

 

I need for Felicity's reaction to be "oh you've GOT to be kidding me".

Or "yes, I really do have a type."

 

I hope I get my wish and the Ray/Felicity stuff post break is her helping him work on the suit rather than romantic stuff.

Edited December 8, 2014 by statsgirl

[Carrie Ann]

What I don't understand is why "they" would have Thea's DNA in any database? Just because she was arrested for DUI or whatever?

[looptab]

The biggest mistery is still why on earth Laurel didn't pull her phone out of her purse and called the police/Oliver/whoever immediately. This whole thing was a joke from the beginning, with so little sense, I'm sure we've all spent more time thinking about it than they ever did. 

[calliope1975]

Zombie!Tommy makes as much sense as anyone else. 

 

For the kid story, I hope it's so long and drawn out that it's forgotten. Do not want. And since Oliver apparently doesn't know about Connor, (I'm just going to call him Connor) make way for more angsty manpain. You know who would be critical to this (unwanted) story and really give some great performances? Moira Queen. Oh wait...

[apinknightmare]

So, Occam's razor: Oliver is being framed for Sara's murder to draw him into conflict with Ra's, and Thea has nothing to do with it (unless she's being threatened as incentive for Oliver, and/or will be revealed to the audience as the killer at some point during the episode).

I'm guessing the killer of unusual size is Tatsu, for reasons yet to be revealed, IDK. This is hurting my brain.

Edited December 8, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Soulfire]

About the speculation that Thea is Sara's killer -- they showed a different preview trailer for 3x09 at the Flarrow screening.

 

I wasn't at the screening event myself but have a friend who was. The preview for 3x09 they showed there was different from the one minute official trailer. It had a lot more Thea in it and was edited together in a way that made the audience believe Thea killed Sara. There were more scenes with Thea at Verdant, her apartment, and it looked like the part with Oliver in her apartment was a little longer.

 

This doesn't disprove any of the other theories, just thought it was worth mentioning.

[ostentatious]

What I don't understand is why "they" would have Thea's DNA in any database? Just because she was arrested for DUI or whatever?

 

Yes actually:

 

Case Solved – The "Shoe Rapist" James Lloyd

 

The most famous familial search case that made headlines around the world was the case of the "Shoe rapist." Between 1983 and 1986, women who wore stiletto shoes in South Yorkshire were attacked by a serial rapist. At night, a masked man would attack the women as they walked home from pubs and clubs in the area. The rapist would drag the women off the street and tie them up with stockings before raping them. He made a habit of stealing the shoes of his victims and was therefore named the "shoe rapist." He was never caught.

 

In March 2006, the UK DNA Lab ran the rapist's DNA through its database as a familial search and got a hit. It matched the DNA of the rapist's sister who had been arrested for a DUI offense in 2000. The sister recalled that her brother, upon hearing of her arrest in 2000, asked her, "Did they take your DNA?" When the answer was "Yes", the rapist, James Lloyd, knew it was only a matter of time before law enforcement would link him to the rapes.

 

Edited December 8, 2014 by ostentatious

[apinknightmare]

About the speculation that Thea is Sara's killer -- they showed a different preview trailer for 3x09 at the Flarrow screening.

I wasn't at the screening event myself but have a friend who was. The preview for 3x09 they showed there was different from the one minute official trailer. It had a lot more Thea in it and was edited together in a way that made the audience believe Thea killed Sara. There were more scenes with Thea at Verdant, her apartment, and it looked like the part with Oliver in her apartment was a little longer.

This doesn't disprove any of the other theories, just thought it was worth mentioning.

Definitely worth mentioning, thank you!

[statsgirl]

Oh, good point about Thea's DNA being on file for having been arrested for her car accident.  I was thinking both hers and Oliver's would be on file because they are the children of billionaires and susceptible to being kidnapped. 

3. Lyla (I am remaining firm on my conviction that women do not climb out of bed after childbirth to shoot other women.)

If she could, she's a  better woman than I am.  But most likely Diggle was there that night with her and the baby and it doesn't make sense that he would kill Sara and frame Oliver for it.

 

So, this is fakeout number how many now? Worst murder mystery/whodunit arc ever.

 

Since I dread having to engage in mental gymnastics to ever believe that Thea is the actual killer, I'm going to go with the theory that it was Ra's al Ghul, himself or someone under his command, who did the deed and framed Oliver in order to lure him away from Starling City and pressure him into choosing to be the Arrow and not Oliver Queen so that he'll join the LOA. Ra's made sure that Oliver's DNA would be on the arrow so that he can convince Oliver to join the LOA as penance for his "crime" of killing a League member or his City will pay. Until Oliver figures it out on that mountain top that Ra's is probably the real murderer ("you've taken your last life") and invokes the "trial by combat" clause.

 

Definitely worst mystery ever.  Why couldn't Laurel just hide Sara's mask and call the police?  Then at least we'd have a timeline.  Or maybe if Laurel just told Oliver & co. what time it was that Sara was shot?  Just knowing the hour would help clear up so much.

 

If it's Ra's going to all that trouble to bring an unwilling Oliver to join the LoA, we once again have the same question as with Waller and ARGUS -- what's so special about Oliver that these people are willing to do all these things to get him to join them?

 

and now I'm scared the EP's will make the final shot of the episode with Oliver and Ra's still fighting on the mountain top, the camera slowly drifting away... And no resolution whatsoever.

Nope, it will be with Oliver stumbling or being hit, falling over the side of the mountain and hanging on to a branch or rock to keep from falling into the abyss, hanging from the cliff.

But no resolution until 3x12.

 

I don't think Laurel dressing up to fool anyone is likely, I'm just trying to figure out a scenario in which Laurel would NEED to suit up (per MG), and that's the only one I can come up with. Why would anyone on Team Arrow ask her to do that? Even if they need a presence in Starling with Oliver gone, I don't think any of them would ever ask her to put herself in danger when she's obviously not ready yet. But...who knows, I guess.

Not to mention, the minute she tried to fight, the jig would be up, unlike when Diggle dressed up as Oliver..  The only use she could be to them would be standing on a rooftop some distance away, blonde hair flowing.

Edited December 8, 2014 by statsgirl

[ostentatious]

Literally the ONLY outcome that could make any of this nonsense worthwhile to me is if it's Tommy. THE ONLY.

 

As far as motive goes...you know, I never examined the evidence to question my own assumptions, but when Vertigo refers to the man of means who financed him, and who really hates Oliver...because Slade popped up two eps later I didn't think about it again, but did we ever get confirmation that Vertigo was talking about Slade?

 

Because Vertigo is a holdover from S1, when Tommy was still around.

 

In "Unfinished Business", when a girl dies at their club, due to a Vertigo overdose, Detective Quentin Laurel's father finds evidence that implies Tommy supplied her with the drug. Even though he is later cleared, Tommy is outraged to hear that Oliver didn't trust him enough to believe he was innocent. As a result, Tommy quits his job at Verdant, also, terminating their friendship. Tommy then asks his father for a job at Merlyn Global Group, which Malcolm gladly accepts with a hug.

 

So...there is a tangential Tommy/Vertigo connection, if only in a false accusation. But if Tommy is all like Revenant!Tommy or whatever, those sorts of little indignities would fester.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Nope, it will be with Oliver stumbling or being hit, falling over the side of the mountain and hanging on to a branch or rock to keep from falling into the abyss, hanging from the cliff.

But no resolution until 3x12.

 

 

See Barry, it's not just a stupid bar.  Salmon ladder proficiency can literally save your life.  Oliver could probably hang out all day on that branch.

[Morrigan2575]

As far as motive goes...you know, I never examined the evidence to question my own assumptions, but when Vertigo refers to the man of means who financed him, and who really hates Oliver...because Slade popped up two eps later I didn't think about it again, but did we ever get confirmation that Vertigo was talking about Slade?

 

He was talking about Blood.  Blood financed Veritgo to find out who The Arrow was.  This was pretty much stated in 207 and 209.  In 207 you have Blood being annoyed that the Arrow killed Veritgo before Veritigo passed on/determined the identity and in 209 you have Slade confronting Blood telling him not to be independent and look for The Arrow, from that Blood deduces that Slade already knows who the Arrow is.  From that we get the build up to the Slade reveal where he confirms that he knew who the Arrow was all along.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

About the speculation that Thea is Sara's killer -- they showed a different preview trailer for 3x09 at the Flarrow screening.

 

I wasn't at the screening event myself but have a friend who was. The preview for 3x09 they showed there was different from the one minute official trailer. It had a lot more Thea in it and was edited together in a way that made the audience believe Thea killed Sara. There were more scenes with Thea at Verdant, her apartment, and it looked like the part with Oliver in her apartment was a little longer.

 

This doesn't disprove any of the other theories, just thought it was worth mentioning.

Interesting. Definitely worth mentioning. I know you weren't there but did it actually flat out point out or heavily imply that she was the killer, or did it just have a lot of scenes with Thea in them? Because imo the official promo they released also implies that she might be the killer. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by ban1o

[catrox14]

I'm expecting a whole lot of this episode to be weird and choppy again, and lots of stuff happening in Offscreenville, and then someone here will try to figure out a timeline based on Felicity's wardrobe changes, and fail again.

There. Low expectations achieved. :)

[TELL YOUR PARENTS, LAUREL. DO NOT DRESS UP AS YOUR SISTER TO FOOL ANYONE BECAUSE THAT MAKES YOU GO FROM SHADY TO FULL ON CREEPY CREEPER WHO CREEPS. PLEASE MAKE A SOLID GOOD CHOICE FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE. BEST REGARDS AND MERRY CHRISTMAS.]

And yet I fully hope that is exactly what happens. Crazy Laurel is the only Laurel that works for me now.

[TanyaKay]

And yet I fully hope that is exactly what happens. Crazy Laurel is the only Laurel that works for me now.

But hasn't she always been a little crazy?

[Danny Franks]

Was it Thea? Hmm, well....

 

Thea did it knowingly? Character assassination and time for Willa Holland to get a new job.

Thea was brainwashed? Complete fucking copout waste of time that just telegraphs that the main reason to kill Sara was to clear the decks for Laurel.

 

So I'd hope Thea didn't do it, because otherwise these writers have even less ideas than I ever thought.

[NumberCruncher]

I saw this over on Tumblr and it sounds pretty on-the-spot to me re: Sara's death and how it ties into the LoA and Ra's al Ghul:

http://raven1066.tumblr.com/post/104674027731/my-grand-theory-plot-of-season-3-of-arrow

[ban1o]

I saw this over on Tumblr and it sounds pretty on-the-spot to me re: Sara's death and how it ties into the LoA and Ra's al Ghul:

http://raven1066.tumblr.com/post/104674027731/my-grand-theory-plot-of-season-3-of-arrow

That's actually an interesting and well thought out theory. (That's how I know it won't be what actually happens on the show lol.) 

 

But seriously, that's a pretty good theory. 

[apinknightmare]

That's actually an interesting and well thought out theory. (That's how I know it won't be what actually happens on the show lol.) 

 

But seriously, that's a pretty good theory. 

 

I think so too.

 

It doesn't take into account the belief that Thea is implicated (per @soulfire's post about the extended promo), but ultimately it doesn't matter for the theory to hold up IMO.

[catrox14]

But hasn't she always been a little crazy?

Not always but at least this would interesting... ish.

[Morrigan2575]

I know Raven from IMDb, nice person really into Comics.  I don't think he's right.  For one thing, he gives the writers way more credit for being "good" then I think they deserve.  These guys aren't geniuses, they aren't creative masterminds that weave mind boggling tales.  Looks at the stories we've had in the past....Malcolm, Slade, Isabel etc...these aren't amazing mindblowingly complex stories.  They're actually the most basic storytelling you can write and very often rely on the same trope I lost something/someone I loved and therefor I'll punish Oliver Queen.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

That's a wonderfully intricate storyline.

[Chaser]

I really think Laurel is going to tell her parents about Sara. Esp. with the right of Alex Kingston. She doesn't actually suit up to Ep 10 so I think the speed up time frame is compared to Oliver/Sara/Roy and not a literal quick change. I think what ever happens in the next episode is a more of a catalyst than anything. I can't image she would have that reaction to Oliver leaving, because that would come across as really arrogant. I wonder how involved with Team Arrow and the investigation she is going to be. It sounds (and looks like) from all the previews, her storyline is contained to her father and mother.

[apinknightmare]

I know Raven from IMDb, nice person really into Comics.  I don't think he's right.  For one thing, he gives the writers way more credit for being "good" then I think they deserve.  These guys aren't geniuses, they aren't creative masterminds that weave mind boggling tales.  Looks at the stories we've had in the past....Malcolm, Slade, Isabel etc...these aren't amazing mindblowingly complex stories.  They're actually the most basic storytelling you can write and very often rely on the same trope I lost something/someone I loved and therefor I'll punish Oliver Queen.

 

But they wouldn't have had to think of it - they'd be cribbing it from another comic franchise, which seems to be a thing they like to do. But good point.

[Starfish35]

That's actually an interesting and well thought out theory. (That's how I know it won't be what actually happens on the show lol.)

But seriously, that's a pretty good theory.

It's a good theory - it just doesn't account for Waller. And after last week's flashbacks I'm more convinced than ever that she's going to be a major player in this season's arc somehow.

Everyone's so focused on Ra's (not here specifically, just the fandom) but I'll still bet Waller's involved in this up to her neck.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

I disagree with that person that this is good writing, but I completely can see these EPs doing exactly that story, because ripping off something that was already written and acclaimed is much much easier than coming up with a new twist on old characters.

It just makes me cranky that it's totally all right for one dude to call for the murder a kickass lady character just to see if some other dude's dick is bigger. Ugh.

Edited December 8, 2014 by dancingnancy

[catrox14]

I really think Laurel is going to tell her parents about Sara. Esp. with the right of Alex Kingston. She doesn't actually suit up to Ep 10 so I think the speed up time frame is compared to Oliver/Sara/Roy and not a literal quick change. I think what ever happens in the next episode is a more of a catalyst than anything. I can't image she would have that reaction to Oliver leaving, because that would come across as really arrogant. I wonder how involved with Team Arrow and the investigation she is going to be. It sounds (and looks like) from all the previews, her storyline is contained to her father and mother.

Arrogance IMO is something laurel does possess.

[Guest]

That's a great theory, one I hope happens because I don't really like any other alternative tbh. The only thing that it doesn't consider is Waller, Maseo and his wife who all must be linked somehow. The flashbacks usually link into the present day. Then there's this whole Malcolm issue. Will he eventually join forces with Oliver to fight Ra's towards the end of the season? Also, I don't see this show killing off Ra's or sending him to the island prison so I'm really struggling to see where this is all leading to.