Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Ceylon5]

Sorry in advance, I have a hard time keeping all of these spoilers straight.  When is Felicity supposed to be alone in the dark with a pair of scissors?  Or did that already happen and I just missed it?

 

Maybe it was the scene when she was waiting to cut the wire on the bomb in 3x08.  I did wonder how it was that all 5 of them happened to be carrying a convenient pair of wire cutters, though.

[WaitandHope]

Felicity was alone in the dark with a pair of scissors at the end of 308...it just wasn't exactly what any of us thought.

[WaitandHope]

It's way too soap opera-ish, but maybe Oliver is in some sort of coma for two months 310-312 and being nursed by Maseo. I didn't pull up Campea's after show but didn't SA say "maybe" he's only in flashbacks for a couple of episodes. I feel like there was a little equivocation. But perhaps there is some sort of present-day Oliver in those episodes, he just isn't saying much?

[dtissagirl]

Felicity was alone in the dark with a pair of scissors at the end of 308...it just wasn't exactly what any of us thought.

 

Haha, true, I completely blanked out on that because I thought they all had wire cutters, not scissors. I was actually wondering during that scene if Barry had to go back and forth all over again to provide them with the cutters, even. :)

[apinknightmare]

I just went and watched it. It looks like he starts reacting after she comes through the crowd, and she doesn't make her move until he's angled away from her.

 

Yeah, I misremembered it. I watched it last night.

 

Something requiring her double probably happens later. 

 

Did anyone make out what the count was saying apart from "where is my accuser"? I heard him rambling on about the justice system and something about the Arrow.

[catrox14]

I just went and watched it. It looks like he starts reacting after she comes through the crowd, and she doesn't make her move until he's angled away from her.

My question is...why is her stunt double on the scene? Does something else happen later that requires the stunt double?

He was firing a gun wildly about him and thought it was prudent to try and get close enough to punch him? Because she got lucky she'll now be hailed as hero which will just spur on her thinking she is on the right path. Sigh...

[Starfish35]

Did anyone make out what the count was saying apart from "where is my accuser"? I heard him rambling on about the justice system and something about the Arrow.

It was something about the Romans and having the right to face his accuser, which I guess is the Arrow?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

Mods I have a question. Once a spoiler is posted in the spoilers only thread is it okay to link back to the spoiler for ease of flowing the spoiler discussion? I don't mean reposting the spoiler here but just be able to put a link in a comment for easy reference?

Edited December 5, 2014 by catrox14

[formerlyfreedom]

Mods I have a question. Once a spoiler is posted in the spoilers only thread is it okay to link back to the spoiler for ease of flowing the spoiler discussion? I don't mean reposting the spoiler here but just be able to put a link in a comment for easy reference?

 

Yep!

[Danny Franks]

My question is...why is her stunt double on the scene? Does something else happen later that requires the stunt double?

 

Won't any vaguely physical piece of business for Laurel require her stunt double? Unlike the real Canary, the actor playing this one is no martial arts, parkour, action junkie, capable of doing her own stunt work.

[catrox14]

Cool! Thanks mods

[Ariah]

They probably do a retake of the scene with the stuntwoman and then cut and glue it all together so that it looks like Laurel really punches the guy hard.

[Chaser]

Has there been any spoilers regarding what the others are doing during the B.C.T (Black Canary Trilogy)?

 

I remember EBR saying there was some stuff with QC (I like that she didn't call it Palmer Technology) and Ray (she didn't clarify romantic or not). And I know one of the EPs said there was some stuff with Thea and Felicity at some point (B.C.T or after).

 

I read something about Diggle-Hive but not sure when...

 

Nothing with Thea/Malcolm or Roy that I remember...

[apinknightmare]

Because I refuse to believe that Thea actually murdered Sara and am in the "framed" camp, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the Thea/Malcolm relationship, since she'll think it's him who's framed her, right? 

 

SHE HAD BETTER BE BEING FRAMED

[foreverevolving]

I don't remember the Vertigo hallucination masks from previous episodes, but looking at the Spoilers Only thread the only thing I can see in that picture is Voldemort!

Me too!!

[Chaser]

I'm all but convinced that Oliver won't be with the LOA during the missing episodes; there is no way they wouldn't show it. Unless of course they end the Hong Kong flashbacks well he is gone and switch to flashbacks with the LOA. But in that case why not show it in "real" time? And it would throw off their timeline (5 years away and so forth).

 

Maybe he is in a coma in Starling City or as someone mentioned, being nursed by old Hong Kong pals.

[SleepDeprived]

Because I refuse to believe that Thea actually murdered Sara and am in the "framed" camp, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the Thea/Malcolm relationship, since she'll think it's him who's framed her, right? 

 

SHE HAD BETTER BE BEING FRAMED

 

Thea, probably, is being framed (if she is the alleged killer) since Sin is supposed to be shedding some new light or bringing some new, important evidence to the Canary murder in whichever episode Sin's supposed to come back in, right? I think that was the purpose of the writers suddenly remembering that Sin existed and bringing her back next year.

 

Regarding the new costume discussion, I'm pulling a Barry Allen and arriving super late it...

 

I think we already saw most of the upgraded Arrow costume at the end of The Bold and The Brave or, at least, the top half of it. Cisco gave the new costume to Oliver right before the final scene, and Oliver was wearing it when he and Barry had their superhero-off in that warehouse. For comparison's sake:

 

 

The differences, as far as I can see, include:

• The new small weapons clip (explosives?) on the quiver strap.
• The baby arrows holder on the left bicep (used to be on the left wrist area and looked a lot heavier).
• The pockets in front are gone in the new costume.
• The wrist area, in general, looks sleeker/more tailored than the old costume.
• In the old costume, Oliver had a smaller quiver holding medium-sized arrows anchored to his thigh with one strap and a belt around his hips. In the new costume, based on that pap pic, it is now anchored with two straps. The belt strap's gone.
• Also, the pants in that pap pic seem a lot more snug (which I approve of, thank you, costume designer!).

 

I wonder what else they might've added to it that would make it too spoilery that SA can't take photos with fans?

Edited December 5, 2014 by SleepDeprived

[Carrie Ann]

Now that we know the general circumstances of Oliver going to Nanda Parbat, and the whole "something happens in 309 that changes our show forever," and the "literal cliffhanger," and Felicity not looking for Oliver because she knows where he is or where he isn't, and the emotional, draining scene of 311...

 

I am definitely leaning toward presumed death. Which SUCKS, and I'm not pleased at all. I think that if Nyssa were to report his death to Team Arrow, they might believe it, even without a body? The only question is where he is for two months. He's either with the LoA, and they're covering it up; or he's surviving in the wilderness again; or being tended to by someone.

 

The other option is that Ra defeats him but lets him live (and possibly Thea too) if he joins them, and that choice is communicated to Team Arrow. In that case though, it seems like Dig would be putting some pressure on Lyla to make ARGUS get Oliver out. 

[looptab]

He was firing a gun wildly about him and thought it was prudent to try and get close enough to punch him? Because she got lucky she'll now be hailed as hero which will just spur on her thinking she is on the right path. Sigh...

If that's what happens, I wish everyone's reaction were this:

  

[ban1o]

I agree that everyone would presume Oliver is dead. That makes the most sense to me based on the few spoilers we've heard. But it is strange that they won't be showing what Oliver is doing if he does join the LOA or is taken prisoner. Like it's not like the audience is actually going to believe Oliver is dead so there's no point in trying to trick us lol like they did with Malcolm or Sara or something.

Edited December 5, 2014 by ban1o

[KirkB]

Maybe they'll think he's dead because Nyssa tells them Ra's stabbed him and threw him off a cliff, but unbeknownst to the LoA he manages to catch himself. Still badly injured he lingers for a couple of episodes in a coma while being tended to by a friendly goat herder. Or something.

Edited December 5, 2014 by KirkB

[Ariah]

Regarding Oliver being nursed back to health theory...

 

I just hope he's not being nursed by a sexy and very caring girl who looks like Shado. Because those of us who read the comics know what did happen under similar circumstances to Oliver... Right? Right. Thank you very much, one baby-mama plot on the horizon is enough!

[Password]

Maybe they'll think he's dead because Nyssa tells them Ra's stabbed him and threw him off a cliff, but unbeknownst to the LoA he manages to catch himself. Still badly injured he lingers for a couple of episodes in a coma while being tended to by a friendly goat herder. Or something.

I second the goat herder theory. I can just see it. Hopefully the EPs don't decide to kill said goat herder for giggles.

[Ariah]

I second the goat herder theory. I can just see it. Hopefully the EPs don't decide to kill said goat herder for giggles.

 

Not for giggles.

For the MANPAIN!

[looptab]

I second the goat herder theory. I can just see it. Hopefully the EPs don't decide to kill said goat herder for giggles.

And the goat herder will have a cloak, and he will be the second iteration of Yao Fei, so the REAL and original and meaningful one, and when he dies Oliver will take the cloak and use it as disguise and grow a goatee in his honor./ Ok I'm done i swear

[dtissagirl]

Does Oliver get to keep a pet goat? :)

 

My dudebro friend who watches Arrow is psyched about Ra's, and he saw the promo pics today and immediately linked me to this scene from Batman: TAS:

 

 

That has shirtless dudes, swords, and a literal cliffhanger. I'm not so sure Arrow would just get rid of Ra's like that, but I thought it would be worth posting it for future comparing & contrasting.

[apinknightmare]

I agree that everyone would presume Oliver is dead. That makes the most sense to me based on the few spoilers we've heard. But it is strange that they won't be showing what Oliver is doing if he does join the LOA or is taken prisoner. Like it's not like the audience is actually going to believe Oliver is dead so there's no point in trying to trick us lol like they did with Malcolm or Sara or something.

 

 

Yeah, the death makes the most sense, but it still doesn't make any sense because everyone's going to keep waiting for him to come back to town. Which might be the point - it clears Oliver's screen time for Laurel, while still keeping the audience tuning in because they know even though he's "dead" he's going to come back. Although unless he really is just being nursed back to health and recuperating enough to get back to Starling, whatever interesting crap he gets up to is something I'd like to see. I guess maybe we'll be getting another set of flashbacks? 

[looptab]

 

Does Oliver get to keep a pet goat? :)

Just so long as the goat doesn't bother the fern :) 

About that Batman clip, at least we can be glad they avoided the nonsense of letting him keep the mask/hood/ whatever lol

Edited December 5, 2014 by looptab

[NumberCruncher]

Heh. The fern's had a rough couple of weeks. First Oliver throws things at her and then Lyla decides to use her as target practice. Hopefully she'll get some quality TLC time with Felicity while Oliver's off in Nanda Parbat.

The death speculation makes sense. I know it's been discussed already, but I would not be the least bit surprised if Diggle is the one who ends up going to look for Oliver while Felicity stays in Starling. Has DR been present in all of the filming of Laurel's big story arc. I know I've seen a lot of Colton and Emily tweets during that period of time, but what about him?

[SleepDeprived]

I think I saw a picture of DR during Foundry Fridays with Colton, EBR, and KC (with Grant photbombing in the back) somewhere.

[apinknightmare]

Does Oliver get to keep a pet goat? :)

 

My dudebro friend who watches Arrow is psyched about Ra's, and he saw the promo pics today and immediately linked me to this scene from Batman: TAS:

 

 

That has shirtless dudes, swords, and a literal cliffhanger. I'm not so sure Arrow would just get rid of Ra's like that, but I thought it would be worth posting it for future comparing & contrasting.

 

I'm having difficulty even watching that with Batman in the cowl and tights and mask without a shirt on. It's like watching a strange ballet that I can't take seriously. I do wonder what the outcome of that fight is going to be. Ra's will live. Will Oliver get super f-ed up or just take a header down the side of a cliff? Come on, Wednesday!

[blixie]

 

or being tended to by someone.

 

Ahhhh it's Zombie Tommy! Hee I'm still cool with Maseo, but I need Zombie Tommy so much. But I'd love a black hooded dude with black arrows taking care of Oliver secretly, they make us think it's Maseo, but it's Tommy. 

 

I don't know why I do this to myself, it's so not going to happen. SIGH. I am okay with the team thinking he's dead, I've thought since the "literal cliffhanger" spoiler from SA, and I'll take the not looking for him bit, only if he puts on one hell of an Olicity show about how only hells fire and death itself would keep him from coming back, and then well...he doesn't. Not having them look for him will never make sense, but I won't be mad at Felicity and Team Arrow for assuming something, utterly passively and wholly out of character because the writers of the show they are on suck.

[JenMcSnark]

Why did Laurel stumble-punch the guy and then stand there looking completely confused?  That was...weird.

[statsgirl]

Given that returning from the dead is practically SOP on this show, especially if you're a guy, I can't imagine what would make Felicity and Diggle not look for Oliver unless he told them that he was going undercover for a few months so don't look for him and blow his cover.

 

The shirtless cowl-wearing is funny, like the huge muscles on both characters. I guess it's the male equivalent of the DD breasts for women.

 

 

Has there been any spoilers regarding what the others are doing during the B.C.T (Black Canary Trilogy)?

 

I read something about Diggle-Hive but not sure when...

I think they said not this season.  All the spoilers are for Laurel but I bet there will be Ray Palmer in there too.

 

I'm all but convinced that Oliver won't be with the LOA during the missing episodes; there is no way they wouldn't show it. Unless of course they end the Hong Kong flashbacks well he is gone and switch to flashbacks with the LOA. But in that case why not show it in "real" time? And it would throw off their timeline (5 years away and so forth).

The audience wouldn't be suspense wondering what happened to him if they showed him with the LoA.  If he's missing missing, viewers will tune in for 3x11 and 3x12 hoping to see him.

[Sunshine]

From MG's Access Hollywood interview it sounds like 3.10 is supposed to be heavy Malcolm.  I guess that is why they aren't concerned about showcasing LL in Oliver's absence.  They expect people to tune in for Malcolm/John Barrowman.  Since 2015 is going to be a good year for Malcolm - he's getting flashbacks too - is Ray Palmer not going to be much more than he's been shown to be so far, suit or no suit?  Is Thea still getting a story arc or is it going to be about the Malcolm of it all?  Is Oliver being sidelined in his own show? LOL! I have more questions than answers or even guesses.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm not much of a Malcolm fan, Barrowman is entertaining but I feel he tends to go campy as a villain. That being said, I've been shocked at how utterly under used he's been given the big stink of bringing him back from the dead and signing him up as a series regular.

As for Zombie Tommy, pretty sure his return is actually going to be in the Malcolm flashbacks in 310 (or later)

Thea is another character that they've really under used, especially as they claimed this season was a reward for the actress. I'm not a huge fan of the character but they've been really quiet on the character as far back as SDCC. I can't tell if that means it's something huge or total BS and they have no story for her.

[BkWurm1]

The Malcolm news is probably the first bright spot I've heard about the post hiatus.

 

seriously, it's really awkward to have a discussion and go back and forth between threads

 

I have to say I'm loving having the spoilers and the discussion about the spoilers spit into separate threads.  It was way too easy to miss a spoiler amongst all the conversation and sometimes I don't want to hear the speculation on it (and get my hopes up too high).  Plus, I often wanted to go back and recheck the spoilers and most of the time I could never find them even a few days later.  Now it's so clean and fast and clear.  Adding links back to them when referencing something specific should help a lot in adding any needed clarity.  :) 

[Sunshine]

Having now watched the cartoon, who is going over the cliff in Arrow - Ra's or Oliver (Batman)?

[KirkB]

I've been shocked at how utterly under used he's been given the big stink of bringing him back from the dead and signing him up as a series regular.

 

That's a good point. They made a big deal out of him being a series regular, and they must have spent a fair amount of money, but how many episodes has he actually been in this season?

[statsgirl]

Barrowman was in eps 3 (Corto Maltese) and 4 (The Magician) and a brief moment at the end of ep 5 when Oliver moved in with Thea.  Hopefully they've got plans for him in coming eps, although what's he to do in 310 if Oliver isn't in town?

 

If they're using him heavily in ep 310, wouldn't they start promoting that now to get people to tune in, or would they wait till 309 has played through?

 

(I'm also someone who preferred having spoilers and spoiler discussion in the same thread instead of having to click 2 places now.)

[dtissagirl]

Barrowman was in eps 3 (Corto Maltese) and 4 (The Magician) and a brief moment at the end of ep 5 when Oliver moved in with Thea.  Hopefully they've got plans for him in coming eps, although what's he to do in 310 if Oliver isn't in town?

He was in the last scene of 302 as well. I remember watching an interview with Guggenheim in that he said they had Barrowman for 19 episodes, so he's already missed the four he's supposed to.

[Starfish35]

Oh that's interesting. So that means he should be in every episode from here on out? Hmmm.

[Morrigan2575]

I thought it was 18 episodes but could be 19. In either case, he's already missed all the episodes he could, he should be in every episode from 309 on.

[DrSpaceman10]

Technically, John Barrowman was in 3x02 (at the end) also. 

[foreverevolving]

I hope they are planning on using barrowman more in future episodes; it be a real idiotic (and annoying) move of them to sign him up as a regular and not utilize him. no offense to the other cast but, Barrowman is practically a god to many fan in the sci-fi world, or maybe i just see it that way because I did watch Torchwood. But even besides that: the man is a first class actor, a very busy one too.

[statsgirl]

It's interesting (as in I hate that) they use Barrowman a lot in Laurel heavy-episodes.  Both 303 and 304 had a lot of Laurel, and 310 is going to be the start of her Canary arc.  No dummies they.

[catrox14]

I think being a series regular just means JB is committed to Arrow as his first priority and keeps other shows from poaching him.

[foreverevolving]

I think being a series regular just means JB is committed to Arrow as his first priority and keeps other shows from poaching him.

Yes, which means that if they don't use him as often he loses/lost other job opportunities that would have kept him busy (which for an actor is an important thing).

Barrowman said before the season started that the ep's contacted him about having him back on arrow post season 1, that they were considering having him back for season 3; he mentioned that near the end of 2013 he send them an email or something saying "listen guys i'm finalizing my calendar for next year and have offers on stand by i need to close, i need to know where I stand with you guys so i can close things up"(more or less there's a video or more of him saying something to that extend) which tell me that: in order to be available full time for Arrow he rejected other offers. So if they don't use him as much it's probably annoying to him as it makes it hard for him to properly travel around and do other gigs, it will mean losing days on arrow.

 

speaking of which: Barrowman is in scotland right now for one of those gigs, so he may not be in 3x14 if they are shooting that before they go on christmas break.

[catrox14]

I'm sure he's being paid for all the episodes regardless of his appearing in them all. I know they did that with Misha Collins and Mark Sheppard on SPN.  So sure he might not be in every episode but he gets paid anyway as a series regular. 

[SleepDeprived]

I was wondering, if 3x10 is indeed relatively Malcolm heavy, how feasible is it that Malcolm actually is the one who manages to save Oliver after he falls in the fight with Ra's?

 

I know it's been speculated that SA, probably, only shot flashbacks in 310/311 but one really short scene to show Malcolm standing over Oliver at the snowy mountain or that Malcolm has Oliver in some hideout wouldn't take more than a few hours to shoot, would it? Then, they can just cut to a Barrowman close-up and that's a good enough cliffhanger for the audience on the Oliver front while the show sets him aside to accommodate the Laurel Lance and the Mystical Black Mask trilogy.

 

If Malcolm saves Oliver then Oliver might feel like he owes him, which could lead to an uneasy alliance. It could also further strengthen the hold that Malcolm has on Thea since it makes him look like he actually cares about family. I mean, Malcolm knows where Nanda Parbat is or wherever the duel is taking place so, maybe, he treks there discreetly to find out who wins, finds Oliver hanging on the cliff/fallen/injured/unconscious and takes him someplace to let him recover and convince him that the two of them must get rid of Ra's once and for all. Wasn't it teased at SDCC that Oliver and Malcolm will sort of come together in order to defeat the big bad of the season? After showing the audience that he has Oliver, Malcolm can spend all of 3x10 plotting against (and/or, possibly, flashbacking to his time with) the LOA. He might get the B-plot while the A-plot can be Diggle, Felicity, Roy, and Laurel against Brick.