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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

(edited)

Not this week. Flash is new today but no Arrow tomorrow. Next Tuesday (Dec. 2) and Wednesday (Dec. 3) is the schedule for the crossover.

Unless you want to watch the episodes back-to-back, and have the patience to wait, then DVR is your friend.

ETA: What Kordi said. :)

Edited by SleepDeprived
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blixie

blixie

For the record I think it's possible Team Not Arrow will be run out of Palmer Tech's Applied Sciences, that will be "the lair" where Ray/Felicity run ops out of. So Oliver's precious territory can stay pristine and uninvaded. RME.

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ostentatious

ostentatious

For the record I think it's possible Team Not Arrow will be run out of Palmer Tech's Applied Sciences, that will be "the lair" where Ray/Felicity run ops out of. So Oliver's precious territory can stay pristine and uninvaded. RME.

It is, but it's more likely they'll keep it in the foundry, since that'll recycle that one time Oliver was mad because Felicity let Barry into the foundry, and the prods are *huge* environmentalists when it comes to recycling story. 

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I tend to think the Atom/Ray stuff will be kept separate from the Team Arrow stuff for the time being as well. Ray still has to reveal all of this to Felicity in the first place, and finish work on the suit, and we only have Episode 9 for that to happen. And after that, I imagine it might take some time before he's just out in the field. And even with Oliver gone, for whatever reason, it's still his secret--all of their secrets, actually--and I think Felicity would keep it that way if she could. Now, if Ray already knows about Oliver as many of you suspect, then that point would be moot. But I still think Ray would want his own space, because that's the kinda guy he is. And using the Palmer Tech facilities means they don't have to build a new set.

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blixie

blixie

(edited)

Did they get rid of that set they "blew up" last year? That was the set I thought they'd use in his Dwarf Star Suit "lab", I was envisioning him showing Felicity. And in Ep 9 he's making amends to Felicity, I assume that means she finds out something about his "secrets" and dishonesty in the crossover. I don't see how that won't be his ATOM plans and that he totes knows everything about Team Arrow.

Edited by blixie
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Agreeing with both that what Ray needs to make amends for is keeping secrets (EBR said that one of the reasons Felicity is attracted to him is because he's "transparent") and that Ray won't be in the lair while Oliver is gone.  There's just too much drama to be milked by having Oliver discover when he gets back what Ray has been doing, and only then letting him in the lair.

 

Felicity may not get sidelined in terms of screentime because she's probably going to be prominent in Ray's story, but it does feel like she'll have little to do in the lair in terms of actual character as opposed to being on comms and computer searches.  IIRC, the only spoilers we have for the post-break episodes is the Laurel trilogy that is four episodes long (3x10-3x12 plus 3x13 "Canaries") and that we're going to be learning about Ray's plans.  And then EBR posted the photo of Arsenal and Black Canary.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Not sure about that set, blixie, but that would make some sense.

 

I still think "amends" is a clumsy way of saying that he's going to address the date/kiss. Maybe he's been kind of MIA since then, and Felicity calls him on it or something, and then the amends could be revealing what he's been working on and bringing her in on it?

 

But if not, it just seems like a lot for Felicity to learn that Ray is working on a superhero suit and deal with that, while also dealing with Oliver leaving with the LOA. But I suppose she could learn about him removing that dwarf star mineral stuff from the land she just helped him acquire, and she could be angry that he IS using the land for some sneaky purpose, and he has to make "amends" by revealing the purpose.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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blixie

blixie

 

it just seems like a lot

 

It is a lot to jam in, but I feel like that's pretty much been 3A in a nutshell, thingses HAPPENING, w/o giving the characters the space to breath and process. I just feel like they want to lay the groundwork of Team Arrow + Bumbling Canary + Ray stepping in the void Oliver is leaving. It could also be another reason Oliver is willing to go off with the LoA, he knows he's not leaving The City in the lurch w/o any heroes to hero while he's gone. I think the cliffhanger is more about showing the Audience how the team survives without Oliver and not whether Oliver will survive w/o his team.

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slayer2

slayer2

(edited)

Sooo...this crossover. Will it play on Tuesday AND Wednesday? Or...

It's both Tuesday and Wednesday. Double duty, shakin' booty.

 

Annnnnd I'm a page behind again. Gah! That's what I get for catching up on my phone.

Edited by slayer2
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looptab

looptab

Does Oliver mean that there is no fun in being with a depressed, brooding lonely hero?  In that case, why not stop being depressed lonely and brooding?

No, I was making a joke :D Since he gives Barry relationship advice, it must be because he wants another sad, lonely hero to keep him company ;)

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Here's what I'm worried about re: superhero Ray. The projection of his A.T.O.M. suit was really cool, but how is this show with its budget going to make it look like something a tech guy would actually have? Fingers crossed.

 

Yeah, I worry about that too. Either they're getting extra budget for the suit because they're planning on spinning Palmer off to his own show, or we'll be looking at a bunch of bottle episodes in Arrow's future, to save some money for the SFX involved in that. 'Cause I'm sure they realize the entire audience has seen Iron Man in action, and anything that looks less realistic than that will be pretty ridiculous.

 

...Or maybe it's a miniaturized robot and they'll use action figures and stop motion animation, Robot Chicken style. :)

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statsgirl

statsgirl

. I think the cliffhanger is more about showing the Audience how the team survives without Oliver and not whether Oliver will survive w/o his team.

I hope so. But in order for it to be about how the team survives without Oliver, they have to focus on the Team (Diggle/Felicity/Roy) and not on Ray or Laurel, and I don't have much faith that will happen. They're too excited about their shiny new toys.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

Felicity's being sidelined? 

In terms of team arrow :p Sorry I wasn't being clear. It's like after episode 2 the only time she's seen in the lair or with the team is when she's just gathering data or whatever... It's sad. I miss her interactions with Diggle and Oliver. They used to have a lot of great lines together. 

Edited by wonderwall
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I seem to recall that, in the Arrow After Show with John Campea (the one where SA was a guest), SA talked about how they - the Arrow TPTB - do monitor what's being said on the Internet and that they realize that Episode 10 (first Jan. episode) of each of the previous two seasons was the weakest one; therefore, he indicated something to the effect that they've changed that this season and that this season's Episode 10 will be fresh and different (or words to that effect).

 

So it sounds like the EPs believe that running a Laurel-heavy arc for four episodes after the midwinter break is actually going to be an improvement over previous seasons.  I imagine that it'll be heavily promoted as the debut of the new Black Canary.

Edited by tv echo
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

Well we at least know Barry does the salmon ladder because Grant mentions it in the TV Guide interview with him and Stephen.  Whether or not that means we'll get Oliver on the salmon ladder is another story.  All I know is that I need a good scene soon because by my rough estimation we haven't seen shirtless Stephen in over 10 episodes and that's just tragic.  /shallow

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DrSpaceman10

DrSpaceman10

 All I know is that I need a good scene soon because by my rough estimation we haven't seen shirtless Stephen in over 10 episodes and that's just tragic.  /shallow

 

Who would have thought Felicity would be shirtless on The Flash before Oliver would be shirtless at all this year? Oliver does have that shirtless fight coming up in 3x09 though ;)

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Don't Barry and Cisco both try the salmon ladder?  I think the TV Guide article said that Felicity and Caitlin are talking about the regimen while Barry and Cisco use it but I can't find the link now.

 

But yeah, no shirtless Oliver and no shirtless Diggle reinforces the idea that they really don't know what people tune in for.

So it sounds like the EPs believe that running a Laurel-heavy arc for four episodes after the midwinter break is actually going to be an improvement over previous seasons.  I imagine that it'll be heavily promoted as the debut of the new Black Canary.

Agree it will be heavily promoted and people will tune in to see the first episode of Black Canary and also to find out what happened to Oliver.  By the second, though, we should get an idea of whether this was a good idea or not.

 

ETA:  Found it.

 

 

Rickards and Panabaker work on a scripted joke-laden exchange about Oliver's workout schedule while Valdes and Gustin each film bits on the famed salmon-ladder aparatus. 

I think Barry should be able to do the salmon ladder -- he doesn't have muscles like Oliver but he also doesn't weigh much and he's got super-fast metabolism.

Edited by statsgirl
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Lisin

Lisin

But yeah, no shirtless Oliver and no shirtless Diggle reinforces the idea that they really don't know what people tune in for.

Sadly I don't think it's up to them. I listened to a podcast with SA and he said that the shirtless scenes were really really difficult to keep up with physically, and that after S1 wrapped he almost immediately got pneumonia so he had his contract changed so that he is only shirtless when it is really needed for the scene. That's why there's a lot less skin nowadays. 

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

^Ooh.  That's incredibly disappointing.  I'm not kidding when I say that shirtless Oliver was the only reason that I continued to tune in during season 1.  I don't even remember many of the episodes that season...I just remember a lot of scenes of Oliver working out.  Shirtless.  Bummer. 

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Looks like everyone gets to do the Salmon Ladder these days. Except Oliver Queen. Man, could these showrunners be any more removed from what made the show a success. Not that I was too interested in Oliver doing it, but I sure as hell enjoyed when Sara did.

 

If Felicity and Caitlin had a 'clinical' conversation about Oliver's regimen while Caitlin practically salivated at the sight of Oliver doing his thing? I might actually be tempted to seek out the clip and watch it at some point.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I get the feeling that the conversation is during Barry and Cisco trying it though.  Not that they need to fuel the Barry/Caitlin ship any further.

 

I think the shirtless scene in the mountains in 3x09 must have been really difficult, as in really really cold.

 

I'll take shirtless Roy even.  Maybe the three of them can trade off.  (Not Ray though, that scene in the last episode was weird.)

 

(I think it's so funny the current emphasis on chiseled male bodies where before it was only about the women looking unrealistically good.  Nice to see the neurosis being spread around.)

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I have a feeling that SA, even on his worst day, still look hella good shirtless, so I'm not sure why he's nearly killing himself to stay in shape.  Maybe just do a normal person work-out regime or something??  That would probably be completely adequate.

 

In an interview, KC mentioned something about finally being able to do something that she had been practicing, and she was so excited about it.  It can't be the salmon ladder, right?  No way.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I think the showrunners think if they let Cassidy have and do everything Lotz/Sara has, people will magically love Laurel. People like Sara, give Laurel, Sara's jacket. People liked Sara doing the Salmon Ladder, let Laurel use it too. They can't seem to comprehend that's not how things work. 

 

Even if she does it, Lotz had maybe a week or two to practice the Salmon Ladder while Cassidy's been practicing/training since last season. So it won't be that impressive to me anyway. (That and seeing Kacy katanzaro take that thing like it was as easy as walking up stairs)

Edited by Sakura12
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

I really don't think it will be the salmon ladder.  In my mind that would contradict what MG said about Laurel's progression in the crossover event interviews--i.e. she still has a long way to go and is going to have to take a lot of beat-downs before she's even close to Sara's level.

 

ETA:  It makes me laugh that really the only ones to this day who have been able to do the salmon ladder are Stephen and Caity (and even she could only do a couple).  I'm still not convinced that Brandon even really did one but rather just jumped from a standing position.  Grant admitted that they had to use a digital double in order for Barry to do it.  I highly doubt Cisco will be able to pull it off.

Edited by NumberCruncher
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I have a feeling that SA, even on his worst day, still look hella good shirtless, so I'm not sure why he's nearly killing himself to stay in shape.  Maybe just do a normal person work-out regime or something??  That would probably be completely adequate.

 

IIRC, Stephen didn't ask for the shirtless scenes to be reduced because of the upkeep on his body, it was because he had to spend too much time in the makeup chair getting the scars and tattoos applied and whatnot. He said something about it in his Girl on Guy interview with Aisha Tyler. It came up when they were talking about what it's like to be the "number one" (which is first on the call sheet, if I'm remembering right) and how demanding it is, and SA said that's why he feels okay asking the showrunners to consider him first when making the shooting schedule so he can have some time off, and also why he felt comfortable asking them to not have him shirtless if the story didn't call for it, because the makeup application was too demanding on his time.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

And MG would NEVER contradict himself <<wink>>

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

 

Heh.  :)  He's actually pretty consistent at telling the truth...he just horribly exaggerates/oversells everything.

 

I agree with @statsgirl that's it's probably Katie finally being able to do chin-ups in her workout.

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Guest

Guest

So MG said no Canary cry for Laurel after all. Don't know if I trust him enough to not change his mind. Hopefully it won't happen this season though.

 

Also lol @ the twitter account who asked that question. Arrowbackontrack = cancel Olicity. Olicity is not the real problem here. Oh the irony.

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Guest

Guest

The crossover looks great actually. I'm not used to looking forward to episodes anymore so this is a nice feeling! It'll be interesting to see how Oliver works on The Flash considering the tone of the show is much lighter.

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Guest
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