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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Guest

Guest

I don't know - they seem pointless. How long would it take her to get into that damn thing?

 

I hope it looks better in professional lighting and/or in motion. Right now with the wig and everything it looks like a Halloween costume from the Wal-Mart bargain bin. Not that Roy's is much better, but....yeah.

 

I keep thinking she's going to get caught on something. I know they probably wanted to differentiate from Sara's outfit but buckles are not practical.

 

Yeah, I agree. I actually think Roy looks like a kid playing dress up in his outfit so I'm not convinced Laurel is going to look that much better tbh. Wait and see I guess.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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JenMcSnark

JenMcSnark

(edited)

Yeah, I don't like it when the lair is overcrowded. It doesn't look right.

 

Also, if evidence comes to light that affects the joint ventures between Team Arrow and Team Flash, does that make it sound like there's doubt/friction placed between them? Please don't tell me someone from The Flash killed Sara because that is verging on absolutely ridiculous. 

 

 

Deleted because I'm actually reading the thread now and others have said it before and better. 

Edited by JenMcSnark
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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

I'm trying to think of what amazing stunt they could pull off to make the show enjoyable for multiple episodes without Oliver, and I'm failing. The guy might be a big ball of manpain, broody, controlling,and sometimes a douche, but he's still the main reason I tune in. For him and his relationships. Faux!Canary isn't going to cut it. Will BR be suiting up by then? I'm confused and very much not intrigued by this development.

 

ETA: I would be excited if I knew the focus would be on Diggle and Felicity and their combined awesomeness. As I'm pretty sure this is not the plan, I reiterate What Is Happening? (tm Jason Mantsoukas)

Edited by calliope1975
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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

If SA's only appearing in flashbacks for a couple of episodes, I wonder if we are still going to end up with a 75% FB 25% Present Day episode in 314 or 315 similar to The Odyssey or The Promise.

Edited by Sunshine
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wonderwall

wonderwall

I'm trying to think of what amazing stunt they could pull off to make the show enjoyable for multiple episodes without Oliver, and I'm failing. The guy might be a big ball of manpain, broody, controlling,and sometimes a douche, but he's still the main reason I tune in. For him and his relationships. Faux!Canary isn't going to cut it. Will BR be suiting up by then? I'm confused and very much not intrigued by this development.

I totally know what you mean. Oliver may be a big broody/assholish/hypocritical/emotionally stunted guy... But he's my broody assholish hypocritical and emotionally stunted guy. :/ I mean he pisses me off a lot but I love him.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

If SA's only appearing in flashbacks for a couple of episodes I wonder if we are still going to end up with a 75% FB 25% Present Day episode in 314 or 315 similar to The Odyssey or The Promise.

 

Yuck, no thank you.

 

I'm forever bitter about The Promise, because I had just gotten into the show when that ep aired, and I found SA's Facebook and he was all "THIS IS OUR BEST EPISODE EVER, IT'S AMAZING" and I was young and naive and actually RESCHEDULED A FLIGHT so I could be on the ground to watch it and was so, so, so disappointed. Never again, sir. Never again.

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Guest

Guest

The Lance family episodes from s2 are looking real good right about now because at least Oliver WAS ACTUALLY IN THEM. 

 

I genuinely can't believe they are doing this without their lead. I have no words for it. 

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Tangerine

Tangerine

I'm not disappointed, I'm meh about it too. I'm sort of tired of them shoving Laurel is BC down my throat... Granted i've been tired of it ever since episode 2, but yeah, with Oliver not there for the first few episodes, I don't think I'll be tuning in for those episodes. I'm not really interested in the Roy and Laurel show. 

 

I think i'd be disappointed if I expected better from Arrow in terms of Laurel, but I'm just over it lol I mean, I was disappointed the first two seasons, but now I'm just indifferent because I don't think they'll ever do BC any justice. Oh well. 

 

Every time I think I've accepted and moved on, they replay Sara's death and I get disappointed all over again. Because BC as a character in the comics meant something to me, and Sara embodied it so well and nothing we've seen from Laurel yet makes me believe that they can do BC justice. I know that this version of GA is different from any comic book iteration we've seen, but SA has done an amazing job and the writing for his development has been fairly decent. Now knowing that he won't even be around all that much for 2-3 episodes makes me feel....

 

simon-garfunkel-3.gif

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

If SA's only appearing in flashbacks for a couple of episodes, I wonder if we are still going to end up with a 75% FB 25% Present Day episode in 314 or 315 similar to The Odyssey or The Promise.

If it were 75% flashbacks, SA would be on the set. Since he isn't, it's going to be mostly present day, starring Laurel as the BC and Ray Palmer as The Atom.  I'd guess Thea and Malcolm too but without Oliver, why would they be there?

 

 

The Lance family episodes from s2 are looking real good right about now because at least Oliver WAS ACTUALLY IN THEM. 

Hell just froze over.

Is this a dastardly plot to make us appreciate Oliver?

 

Team Arrow hooked me in in s1, a mantra heard all over the internet.  Without Oliver, a smart EP would be focussing on how Diggle and Felicity get on without him.  But the question is, is there a smart EP attached to this show?

 

---

 

The TV Guide spread says that Felicity asks Caitlin to run a DNA test on the arrow that killed Sara.  Something happens to "a character we care about" and "the Flash characters are like 'Whoa, this is very serious'.  That doesn't sound like the canary cry, unless someone attacks Laurel with something radioactive.  And there's yet another "vital piece of evidence" about Sara's murder. Drop by drop. 

Edited by statsgirl
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

Words Arrow producers should NEVER use: chemistry, soul mates, and star crossed lovers.

Thank you.

You forgot "Emmy-worthy". ;)

ETA: Oops. I see @insubordination beat me to it. See? No one believes you anymore, Guggenheim!

Edited by NumberCruncher
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Ariah

Ariah

Could the Felicity's words in the published script-tease be about trying to cut the Arrow loose from the train tracks?

If she left the fancy party she may have been "armed" with just a butter-knife.

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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

Link to scans of the full article about the crossover.. nothing really new though.

So Caitlin and Felicity will discuss Oliver's work out routine during the crossover episode. This gives me so much pleasure, you guys have no idea. I mean real girls talk about shit like that, right?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I thought that ep 9 was the last one before Christmas but Ausiello's column makes it sound like 10 is the holiday episode with Dinah coming back for more of Laurel's story.

 

At this point, I'm just so tired of all the screentime they give Laurel, I can't even rail against it.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

Oh, joy. More Lance family drama coming up in 3x10. Ugh. I normally enjoy Alex Kingston but, somehow, the Arrow writers found a way to make me dread each time she returns to SC. Laurel better be telling her parents about Sara's murder in this special holiday Arrow episode. She's already the worst daughter ever for depriving them of getting to properly say goodbye before Sara was buried. I mean, if Quentin and Dinah had been told (because they loved and cared for Sara, too, Laurel) then, not only would there be actual police investigating the murder properly but, Sara might've gotten a proper embalming/casket/cremation rather than a freaking pine box in her re-dug grave!

 

Since Captain Boomerang has ties to A.R.G.U.S. then him having a "relationship to a recurring character" is, probably, with Lyla. And I've been thinking that the "something significant" happening to someone we care about in the middle of the Arrow crossover episode might have to do with either Diggle or Lyla. Which might then prompt the "big development" in their relationship at the end of the episode (a marriage proposal is my pet speculation).

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Ariah

Ariah

 I mean, if Quentin and Dinah had been told (because they loved and cared for Sara, too, Laurel) then, not only would there be actual police investigating the murder properly but, Sara might've gotten a proper embalming/casket/cremation rather than a freaking pine box in her re-dug grave!

 

I still hope for the big scene when they will re-dug Sara... and the grave will be empty!

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Axel

Axel

 

ETA: I would be excited if I knew the focus would be on Diggle and Felicity and their combined awesomeness. As I'm pretty sure this is not the plan, I reiterate What Is Happening? (tm Jason Mantsoukas)

 

 

To be fair every time I look at the Spoiler Thread I see pictures of or from Emily Bett Rickards and David Ramsey, logically they also  must have big part in these episodes

 

Yuck, no thank you.

 

I'm forever bitter about The Promise, because I had just gotten into the show when that ep aired, and I found SA's Facebook and he was all "THIS IS OUR BEST EPISODE EVER, IT'S AMAZING" and I was young and naive and actually RESCHEDULED A FLIGHT so I could be on the ground to watch it and was so, so, so disappointed. Never again, sir. Never again.

 

 

Well The Promise and The Odyssey are my favorite episodes. I loved the island flashbacks :/

 

It seems kind of early in the Flash for them to start suspecting Harrison of shenanigans though, doesn't it?

 

With the abnormal height of the archer remark from Felicity, maybe it was him shooting from his wheelchair?

 

But if it was Harrison, why Oliver would exchange, defy or whatever with the LoA ? To protect him ???

 

I'm not disappointed, I'm meh about it too. I'm sort of tired of them shoving Laurel is BC down my throat... Granted i've been tired of it ever since episode 2, but yeah, with Oliver not there for the first few episodes, I don't think I'll be tuning in for those episodes. I'm not really interested in the Roy and Laurel show. 

 

Yeah It will be much better when Oliver will be back and it'll be all Black Canary and Arrow...can't wait for the reactions when the first BTS pics of them will come out :p

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I thought that ep 9 was the last one before Christmas but Ausiello's column makes it sound like 10 is the holiday episode with Dinah coming back for more of Laurel's story.

 

At this point, I'm just so tired of all the screentime they give Laurel, I can't even rail against it.

Dinah comes back in 309, the CW already released it's holiday blurbs and that was the only thing mentioned, Dinah returns for Christmas with Laurel.  309 is the last episode of 2014, they already set the return dates for January.  

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Starfish35

Starfish35

KC looks great... If only I liked Laurel. Also, for the love of god can someone fix her spidery eyelashes?

Ok, I'm really really not trying to be catty here, but am I the only one who hates the heavy makeup? KC is very pretty when they go with a natural look for her, but I just find the heavy makeup very unflattering. And the mask just makes the white face and dark lipstick look even more mimelike. Forget the buckles on the costume, what about how long it takes the Canary to put on her face? :(

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Ok, I'm really really not trying to be catty here, but am I the only one who hates the heavy makeup? KC is very pretty when they go with a natural look for her, but I just find the heavy makeup very unflattering. And the mask just makes the white face and dark lipstick look even more mimelike. Forget the buckles on the costume, what about how long it takes the Canary to put on her face? :(

 

Yeah, I think the heavy makeup looks terrible, especially since she's got that cheap-ass wig on and the black mask and black outfit - everything is so severe and it's not a good look at all. I think she looks way prettier when she's got less makeup on (while she's training with Ted, for example).

 

Sara knew her superhero style. When you've got a lot going on in the eye area, you need a nude lip. RIP

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

I posted this in the spoiler thread from TvLine:

"It literally is a game changer in the sense that the series will never be the same afterwards."

No kidding. :/ Edited by looptab
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writersblock51

writersblock51

I do hope that Dinah and Quentin learn the truth about Sara but if it's during the holidays, that's even more painful to bear.  I cannot see how any of this will help Laurel look more sympathetic or understandable to many viewers.

 

The make up for Laurel when she's suited up is very stark. I'm assuming that's on purpose for some intention but I don't understand the point of it.

 

Also, I think the show (and the Flash) need to be careful about how much any new revelations tie them together too tightly. The occasional crossover and references are OK, I guess, but each series deserves their own path and enough episodes to tell the Oliver and Barry stories.  I hope the temptation to mesh the worlds doesn't result in either show suffering.

 

I'm already concerned that more attention, on the EP level, is being given to the Flash than Arrow as it is.

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tv echo

tv echo

Personally, I think each superhero show should have only one masked & costumed superhero.  More than one, and it looks like you're at a comic-con.

 

I still think Nyssa is a viable suspect as Sara's killer even though she showed up at the Arrowcave and vowed vengeance.  Part of her mission could've been to throw Oliver off the trail of suspecting the LOA and maybe framing Malcolm.  If Nyssa hadn't shown up in the Arrowcave, and Oliver only knew that Sara was killed with three arrows, wouldn't he immediately suspect the LOA?  Also, why did Nyssa leave before killing Sara's murderer?

 

Also, Nyssa is the one who told them that Malcolm was alive and that Sara was in Starling City to track down Malcolm for the LOA.  When Sara saw Oliver and then Laurel, she didn't say anything about Malcolm, I believe.  So how do we know that Nyssa was telling the truth about Sara's purpose in the city?

 

Finally, about Felicity's getting a DNA test run on the arrows, what if that DNA turns out to be Oliver's but it's a frame-up (planted DNA)?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

From the TVGuide link posted in News and Media -

“Oliver, Arsenal and Diggle track down the location of a boomerang-wielding killer named Digger Harkness (guest star Nick Tarabay) but are surprised when they come face to face with an A.R.G.U.S. team. Diggle asks Lyla why A.R.G.U.S. is involved but she defers until Harkness attacks the building, killing several agents and targeting Lyla. The Arrow joins the fight and gets help from an old friend – The Flash. Harkness manages to get away and Oliver teams up with Barry again to find him before he can get to Lyla. When Harkness plants five bombs in the city that are timed to explode at the same time, both teams must come together to save the city.”

I swear I read this twice before my brain kicked in and I realized that that "Harkness" is not actually referring to Malcolm. *facepalm* When TV shows collide....

Edited by Starfish35
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

Regarding episode nine:

 

"arguably the most epic episode we've ever done," showrunner Marc Guggenheim effuses.

 

 

I'm fully prepared to hate this episode.  I'm having flashes back to The Promise and the way that episode was hyped.  I hated that episode so much and was shocked when it got pretty good reviews and people were giving it an 11/10 rating (although I did have a good laugh when the ratings came in and that episode like tied for series low.  Haha). 

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

There is not one spoiler for the remainder of 3A or 3B that makes me feel anything positive (except maybe the hope that Dig and Lyla might get engaged). That is...distressing. I've been such a cheerleader of this show for such a long time, and even after they killed Sara and had a bumpy takeoff in general for 3A, I've continued to hold onto faith that there was a plan in place that would ultimately make it worth it. But now I'm starting to experience real doubt that I'm ever getting my show back.

 

I don't see how Laurel is suiting up by 311 (?) if there isn't a significant time jump in the hiatus. And the photos of her with Roy (and Felicity, theoretically, since EBR was holding the camera) make it clear that she will be working with Team Arrow, which kills my small hope that she would actually be off doing her own vigilante thing. Oliver is gone for what now appears to be at least three episodes. Even if he shows up in 312, it must not be until the very end if he hasn't been filming at all this week. So he'll (hopefully) be in 10-11 of the 14 episodes of 3B. That's basically the same number Ray will be in.

 

We're going to waste three episodes on building up side characters (Ray, BC, Roy, maybe even Dig and Thea), because the writers can't figure out a way to develop these characters naturally without removing Oliver from the picture. Felicity and Ray will be building a relationship, because, ditto. In the meantime, Oliver will presumably be suffering somewhere (physically, psychologically, emotionally, or all three). Like, nothing could sound less appealing to me than those three episodes.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

We're going to waste three episodes on building up side characters (Ray, BC, Roy, maybe even Dig and Thea), because the writers can't figure out a way to develop these characters naturally without removing Oliver from the picture. Felicity and Ray will be building a relationship, because, ditto. In the meantime, Oliver will presumably be suffering somewhere (physically, psychologically, emotionally, or all three). Like, nothing could sound less appealing to me than those three episodes.

 

I could not agree more.

 

I foolishly believed the EPs when they said that they had learned what worked in S1 and S2 and incorporated more of that into this season, but it's like they've taken everything I hated about those two seasons and this season is a bastard child of those things. I realize that my viewing tastes aren't everyone's, but...yeah. The mystery of the Undertaking was much more well done than this Sara mystery. The team aspect is off, Laurel's shoved front and center in a storyline that doesn't make that much sense except for BC! BC!, and there's even more writing to plot than there was before.

 

I am still curious about where this show is going, and all of these changes would probably be more palatable to me if I didn't know that Oliver was going to be gone for nearly three episodes. I don't like to get myself all worked up before I know what's actually going to happen, because we could be wrong about a lot of this, but I'm afraid it's going to be difficult for me to come back after a 6-week hiatus and a 3-ish episode arc where the hero of the show isn't even around.

 

I'm just so disappointed. This was my show. It's the only one I watch live, and one of three that I watch at all. I was so excited about it last season, and got so many people to watch. Now only one of them is barely hanging on. I hope the show turns around, and I hope I'm still interested in it when/if it does. I have such a difficult time letting go - I think I'm in the first stage of grief, haha.

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patchwork

patchwork

Limited Oliver can be a good thing if it puts focus on the other characters equally, shake up the dynamics a bit and play around with the normal format. My big fear is that we're going to get not a lot of anyone but Laurel. 

 

Maybe this is just something the show needs to get out of it's system. For good or bad this is their final push to make Laurel if not popular then at least accepted. I wonder if they regret giving Sara The Canary moniker, they could have given her any codename and her role wouldn't have changed. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Limited Oliver can be a good thing if it puts focus on the other characters equally, shake up the dynamics a bit and play around with the normal format. My big fear is that we're going to get not a lot of anyone but Laurel. 

 

Maybe this is just something the show needs to get out of it's system. For good or bad this is their final push to make Laurel if not popular then at least accepted. I wonder if they regret giving Sara The Canary moniker, they could have given her any codename and her role wouldn't have changed. 

 

I think limited Oliver could also be a good thing, but it really doesn't strike me as a good idea to have him gone for what seems to be three whole episodes after they come back from a 6-to-7 (how long is it, anyway?)-week break.

 

I know others here have mentioned that January is for hidden storylines because the ratings are lower anyway, so I get why they're doing it, I just don't care about watching any of this. I just hope that whatever it is they bring for February is enough to make me want to tune in, because at this point I'm not quite ready to give up yet.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Limited Oliver can be a good thing if it puts focus on the other characters equally, shake up the dynamics a bit and play around with the normal format. My big fear is that we're going to get not a lot of anyone but Laurel.

 

But we're not getting "Limited Oliver," we're getting Zero Oliver (I don't count flashbacks or any story that removes him from Starling/his team). Having other characters get the focus for a few episodes isn't always a problem, but I want Oliver there. The show is called Arrow, and I watch it for him and his relationships.

 

And beyond that--I don't have much interest in shaking up the dynamics or playing around with the normal format. I used to love the dynamics, and I had no problem with the format (aside from boredom with the FBs). I guess that's my problem. That Guggenheim quote was the thing that really made my heart sink. "It literally is a game changer in the sense that the series will never be the same afterwards." I want it to be the same. Not the same as 3A, but the same as the show I loved. Now it's clear that show isn't coming back. And maybe I'll like the new incarnation, once we get Oliver back, but maybe I never will. Based on 3A, I'm not confident that the writers and I are at all on the same page about what makes a good show.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

From the TVGuide link posted in News and Media -

I swear I read this twice before my brain kicked in and I realized that that "Harkness" is not actually referring to Malcolm. *facepalm* When TV shows collide....

 

As if Roy/Ray was not confusing enough, we now have Digger Harkness to mess both with Barrowman and John Diggle ... I need something strong and it is barely noon here.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Hmm.  Interesting.  Amy Gumenick (Cupid) actually auditioned for the role of Laurel Lance.  I've never seen her in anything, but something tells me that she would have been an improvement.

 

Per the interview:

 

“We definitely get to meet this wild woman,” she said. “Cupid is described as a villain, but she's really driven by love and determined to get the bad guys. She specifically goes after several of Arrow's rivals and enemies in hopes of buying his love, so to speak.”

 

 

Maybe Team Arrow should use her as a resource.  Point her in the direction of the bad guys and let her eliminate them.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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calliope1975

calliope1975

Hmm.  Interesting.  Amy Gumenick (Cupid) actually auditioned for the role of Laurel Lance.  I've never seen her in anything, but something tells me that she would have been an improvement.

 

She was so good as Mama Winchester on Supernatural - tough and able to kickass but could be very vulnerable and compassionate. I have no doubt she could have been a really good Laurel. 

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Tangerine

Tangerine

(edited)

She was so good as Mama Winchester on Supernatural - tough and able to kickass but could be very vulnerable and compassionate. I have no doubt she could have been a really good Laurel. 

 

What really impressed me about Gumenick as Mama Winchester was that you could tell she was channeling Samantha Smith's portrayal too. We only saw a bit of Mama Winchester on the show but I totally saw the resemblance. Plus, I thought she got the chemistry just right in scenes with Dean, her future son, as in there was nothing inappropriate there at all but she had such great spark with John, her husband-to-be. And what made Mama Winchester great in those flashbacks was her strength of character, not her ability to kick butt.

 

Gumenick also played Natalee Holloway in the TV movie where SA played her killer.

 

What could have been...

 

I could not agree more.

 

I foolishly believed the EPs when they said that they had learned what worked in S1 and S2 and incorporated more of that into this season, but it's like they've taken everything I hated about those two seasons and this season is a bastard child of those things. I realize that my viewing tastes aren't everyone's, but...yeah. The mystery of the Undertaking was much more well done than this Sara mystery. The team aspect is off, Laurel's shoved front and center in a storyline that doesn't make that much sense except for BC! BC!, and there's even more writing to plot than there was before.

 

I am still curious about where this show is going, and all of these changes would probably be more palatable to me if I didn't know that Oliver was going to be gone for nearly three episodes. I don't like to get myself all worked up before I know what's actually going to happen, because we could be wrong about a lot of this, but I'm afraid it's going to be difficult for me to come back after a 6-week hiatus and a 3-ish episode arc where the hero of the show isn't even around.

 

I'm just so disappointed. This was my show. It's the only one I watch live, and one of three that I watch at all. I was so excited about it last season, and got so many people to watch. Now only one of them is barely hanging on. I hope the show turns around, and I hope I'm still interested in it when/if it does. I have such a difficult time letting go - I think I'm in the first stage of grief, haha.

 

I'm with you here. This was my favourite show for a long time, and the one I would make people watch but now I'm kind of just...meh.

 

Basically what was working in S1 and S2:

- Team Arrow dynamic

- Felicity/Oliver's chemistry and very easy, fun interactions

- Laurel playing limited roles

- Sara as The Canary

- Oliver's growth and development into a hero

 

What we're getting this season:

- Barely any Team Arrow scenes

- Felicity/Oliver torn asunder with angst

- Laurel everywhere

- Sara is...I don't want to talk about it.

- Oliver goes missing for three episodes doing something possibly shady.

 

Well done, show. Well done.

Edited by Tangerine
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