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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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No, don't do that. I like the Flash and since I've stopped watching Arrow I don't want Laurel ruining everything on another show. 

Yeah, I want her as far away from The Flash as possible. I'm loving the lightness of the show so far. I don't need Laurel messing that up.

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Will The Atom Go From ‘Arrow’ To ‘The Flash’? 

Routh fills us in on the Atom, his powers, and - of course - Felicity.
by shaunna murphy 10/15/2014
http://www.mtv.com/news/1964670/brandon-routh-arrow-flash-felicity/?utm=share_twitter

As for what Ray’s plans truly are, of course Routh couldn’t say much — only that he has one, that he also has “a past,” and that at least part of the charming front he puts on is legit. However, Routh also said that a Ray Palmer flashback episode might be in the cards.

 

“From the beginning, when I met with Marc [Guggenheim] and Andrew [Kreisberg], they mentioned that they were thinking of doing a flashback episode all about Ray, or just about the day that something happened in his life at the same time that it happened in other characters’ lives,” Routh continued.

 

*   *   *

“As far as we are in the scripts, there’s no knowledge of [Felicity] going [to Central City],” Routh continued. “As mysterious as Ray is, she’s mysterious to him… I don’t know anything about her back story. I have no knowledge of her working with the Arrow, I have no knowledge of her and Oliver as a relationship, or any of that. But as Brandon Routh, I’m like, ‘What? Come on — Oliver, and Barry, and Ray? Come on.’ She’s a hot commodity. But it’s all good – as long as she’s honest with everybody. Or is she? [Laughs]”

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The Flash's’ Candice Patton on Meeting ‘Arrow's’ Felicity: ‘Last Thing We Need Is Women on TV Hating Each Other’

By Linda Ge and Travis Reilly on October 14, 2014
http://www.thewrap.com/cw-the-flash-candice-patton-on-meeting-arrows-felicity-crossover-episode/

 

Nice comments by Candice Patton.  Incidentally, while Iris is vastly different from Laurel in character, I noticed a disconcerting thing while watching The Flash this week - Candice's speaking voice sounds almost exactly like Katie Cassidy's voice (except for the hostility).

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I agree with her - women are few and far between on shows as is, we don't need them to be cat-fighting.  Ugh.  I'm not sure how to feel about the Felicity cross over, though.  I'm looking forward to her interaction with Team Flash (really hoping for some interaction with Tom Cavanagh), but the double date?  Felicity has had enough awkward/painful romance moments this season and there have only been 2 episodes.  From the Flash side, I'm not shipping anyone, but admit I'm kind of uncomfortable with Barry being in love with a girl that he was raised with as a sister.  Squick.

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I'm on the fence too. On one hand I can't wait for Felicity to head over because I think she is going to interact well with the Flash team and yes to Felicity and Harrison. On the other hand, with everything she has gone thru with Oliver (and no doubt will go thru again on the next episode to prompt her to go to Central City) the woman needs a break.

 

I'm just hoping they that this awkward date ends in Felicity and Barry dropping truth bombs on each other and they part with no drama. Personally, I really don't want any tension between Barry and Oliver because of Felicity. And I don't want to see hurt puppy dog Oliver either.

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Not happy that Felicity will be mostly missing for episode four.  Based on polls and such, she seems to be a favorite, so I would think that Arrow would want to make sure that she has a presence in every episode.  I'm not too excited about episode three or four, actually. 

 

When Iris showed up in the second episode I was having flashback nightmares about Laurel. That's not a good thing. Hopefully the actress can get past that and win me over.

 

 

Taking to small talk thread.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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Not happy that Felicity will be mostly missing for episode four.  Based on polls and such, she seems to be a favorite, so I would think that Arrow would want to make sure that she has a presence in every episode.  I'm not too excited about episode three or four, actually. 

 

 

Taking to small talk thread.

They did.  They could have easily written Felicity out of 304, it takes place the same week as Flash 104.  MG even commented on it on twitter or in an article, that Felicity would be in 304 just not in Starling...I can't remember his exact wording but it was something like, we wouldn't do that  (leave Felicity entirely out of an episode)

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I agree with her - women are few and far between on shows as is, we don't need them to be cat-fighting.  Ugh.  I'm not sure how to feel about the Felicity cross over, though.  I'm looking forward to her interaction with Team Flash (really hoping for some interaction with Tom Cavanagh), but the double date?  Felicity has had enough awkward/painful romance moments this season and there have only been 2 episodes.  From the Flash side, I'm not shipping anyone, but admit I'm kind of uncomfortable with Barry being in love with a girl that he was raised with as a sister.  Squick.

 

I think women don't have to be friends all the time but if they are going to be enemies let's make it about competing for a job vs competing for a man. I also really don't like the idea that women have to be friends either especially when that friendship is born of them both liking the same man unless they both decide to not pursue said man. 

 

I long for the day when women can just fight with each other and compete with each other and still not hate each other. I also long for the day when women that do hate each other and do fight will not have their fights be about a man, their children or cooking and that the fighting is no longer reductively referred to as catfighting.

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^I get the sense that it will be like a thirty second scene or something.  I guess that we'll know more after next week's episode, but I'm not sure it's enough to entice me to watch live.

Oh yeah, I don't expect it to be anything major 1 min of screentime, tops.  She gets called by someone on TA to help track a baddie or get a warning that Merlyn's still alive, or even a phone call from Ray.  I was just saying they could have easily not included Felicity in the episode at all but they chose to.

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I actually don't mind Felicity going to central because I think it's is a way to set up the crossover by having her meet everyone in Central including Iris. I have a few theories as to what the crossover will be about but I narrowed it down to two prospects: 

  • There's going to be a big bad ruining everything and Team Arrow and Team Flash have to team up to defeat said bad guy. This is actually quite an obvious trope.
  • Felicity will get kidnapped for whatever reason, thus Team Arrow and her new friends on Team Flash will be concerned and try to team up in order to get her back. Not only would this provide a lot of character development and realization for Oliver, but I also think that it could provide a lot of character development for Felicity. Hopefully this won't be a classic damseled case where Felicity is all 'come save me', but we actively get to see her try to save herself. 

I honestly don't know what else would bring the two teams together other than their friendship/love for Felicity or trying to defeat a big big bad. 

Edited by wonderwall
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I suspect it will be a big bad that Arrow has encountered come to Central City.  Felicity will head over to help them track him (because it's almost always a him) down.  I seriously hope they wouldn't damsel Felicity.  Too many emotions, she needs a few episodes where she can be Felicity.  To that point, so do I.  LOL

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I suspect it will be a big bad that Arrow has encountered come to Central City.  Felicity will head over to help them track him (because it's almost always a him) down.  I seriously hope they wouldn't damsel Felicity.  Too many emotions, she needs a few episodes where she can be Felicity.  To that point, so do I.  LOL

I too don't want Felicity to be damseled, I also want Felicity to be central to the plot in the crossover. I think it's possible for Felicity to be kidnapped yet still be badass. Hmm. Maybe they could go about it another way... hmm any ideas? 

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They won't damsel Felicity while Oliver is the only one who can rescue her. That would undercut the distance the show has put between them. Rather, they'll wait until they can put 50 Shades of Ray in a position to save her from something. Then she'll be a helpless, useless woman with womanly ways and woman parts. Hell, she'll be lucky if she isn't casually murdered.

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Isn't the Clockmaker going to show up in Central City? That's Felicity's tailor-made villain.  And then there's a Flash villain who is supposed to show up in Starling City.

 

They have to be very careful how they handle Felicity from now on, with Sara gone and Laurel "the least-liked character" (io9 review) now centrestage as the Black Canary.  I got my best friend into watching the show and she phoned me today to say she was done, she just can't watch Laurel any more, although she'd be happy to tune in if they ever do a show about Diggle and Felicity.   (Completely seriously, she asked if TPTB were trying to torpedo Arrow so they can move on to other shows.

I'm guessing "miscommunication" means everyone forgot about the fern. Poor fern.

I hope the set dresser is not going to get into trouble.

 

I continue to pursue Felicity to hire her,” Routh told MTV News over the phone. “She’s the best tech brain in the city, or maybe even further than that. I definitely had my eyes on her from the beginning — coming to Tech Village for the first time, not necessarily knowing anything about what she looks like. [it was] just about her brain and her abilities and skills. I continue to do that, but once I see her and meet her, maybe it becomes a dual purpose. But at the forefront I need her skills for my plans, as I continue to try to make them happen. And Ray Palmer tends to get what he wants.”

Is it to create a shrinking machine?  I must confess, I like that someone is pursuing Felicity for a change and bonus, it's for her brains.  That's even rarer on TV than it is in real life.

Edited by statsgirl
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I like that someone is pursuing Felicity for a change and bonus, it's for her brains.  That's even rarer on TV than it is in real life.

 

I would love if Ray is only interested in Felicity for her brain and skills and not for romance purposes. I'd love it even more if she just wasn't his type or he was gay. No romance, just friendship and colleagues. I want a lot of things I'll never get.

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Ugh, again with the mentions of a Ray Palmer flashback? How is this even necessary? We had to wait three seasons before we get a flashback for Felicity and then this smarmy stalker gets one after a handful of episodes? NO. 

 

I would love if Ray is only interested in Felicity for her brain and skills and not for romance purposes. I'd love it even more if she just wasn't his type or he was gay. No romance, just friendship and colleagues. I want a lot of things I'll never get.

 

Me too. I would prefer it if no romance happened at all and this was all about Felicity thriving professionally outside of the Arrow cave. Actually I love that idea. Can we have this please?

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Ugh, again with the mentions of a Ray Palmer flashback? How is this even necessary? We had to wait three seasons before we get a flashback for Felicity and then this smarmy stalker gets one after a handful of episodes? NO.

If I could only marry this post I would...

Look, I get it. The Atom is the show's shiny new toy and everyone has a hard-on for BR but do the existing characters have to fall away because the showrunners need another springboard for their next superhero show (and yes, I have no doubt they're hoping for one)? It's aggravating. How about focusing on fixing the problems of your flagship show before its viewers decide to tune out altogether?

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If I could only marry this post I would...

Look, I get it. The Atom is the show's shiny new toy and everyone has a hard-on for BR but do the existing characters have to fall away because the showrunners need another springboard for their next superhero show (and yes, I have no doubt they're hoping for one)? It's aggravating. How about focusing on fixing the problems of your flagship show before its viewers decide to tune out altogether?

 

Exactly. The trouble is I can't see why he's the shiny new toy because I think he's an arrogant stalker so they've already lost me. I'm willing for that opinion to change but right now I can't stand him. And BR is a wooden actor to me so I'm lost on all levels.

 

I really don't think Ray had to even be in 302 so they are already forcing him in where he doesn't fit naturally. We could have just seen him call or email Felicity repeatedly or maybe some notifications of flower delivery to her house to show he was trying to hire her and how annoying that was. But having him there in the middle of everyone grieving over Sara just threw everything off. And if they can do that in an episode as delicate as Sara then they'll continue to do it all season long. 

 

The flashback thing really annoys me though because it's not important, especially as he'll probably go over to The Flash. Let him have a flashback there FFS. 

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They won't damsel Felicity while Oliver is the only one who can rescue her. That would undercut the distance the show has put between them. Rather, they'll wait until they can put 50 Shades of Ray in a position to save her from something. Then she'll be a helpless, useless woman with womanly ways and woman parts. Hell, she'll be lucky if she isn't casually murdered.

 

50 Shades of Ray. Heh!  I wish I could laugh at the last part, but you are probably spot on with your prediction.

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It doesn't make it any better but I think Ray's flashback is supposed to be something that happened during the finale (Unthinkable).  I am thinking he lost someone important to him thus his speech to Felicity at the elevator.  The Arrow/Roy Komodo scene occurred at QC for a reason.  (BTW, where did Roy go after Arrow went out the window?  Did he provide Laurel with directions on where to find them because he didn't want to be the backup anymore?)  I am guessing he wants Applied Sciences and Felicity's help to some how design/create the red and blue suit or some secret weapon. 

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It doesn't make it any better but I think Ray's flashback is supposed to be something that happened during the finale (Unthinkable).  I am thinking he lost someone important to him thus his speech to Felicity at the elevator. 

 

Isn't it supposed to be Jean Loring (Moira's defense attorney)?

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Isn't it supposed to be Jean Loring (Moira's defense attorney)?

I don't think so, they said they would address it (comics Jean/Ray) but they also said they would address Isabel being on The List and they never did (and no, sleeping with Robert Queen isn't a reason to end up on the Undertaking List).
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I don't know if it's Jean Loring or not but they did say there would be something to connect them.  I do remember MG saying the age gap was too wide (20 years I guess)  for their traditional comic relationship.  I wondered if maybe she was his mother-in-law or something.

 

or what Morrigan2575 said

Edited by Sunshine
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but I narrowed it down to two prospects:

There's going to be a big bad ruining everything and Team Arrow and Team Flash have to team up to defeat said bad guy. This is actually quite an obvious trope.

Felicity will get kidnapped for whatever reason, thus Team Arrow and her new friends on Team Flash will be concerned and try to team up in order to get her back. Not only would this provide a lot of character development and realization for Oliver, but I also think that it could provide a lot of character development for Felicity. Hopefully this won't be a classic damseled case where Felicity is all 'come save me', but we actively get to see her try to save herself.

 

I hope it's the former. Seems overkill if Felicity gets kidnapped and multiple characters from two different shows/cities come to her rescue. 

Plus I don't think she'll make such an impression to the characters on The Flash.

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Plus I don't think she'll make such an impression to the characters on The Flash.

Respectfully disagree again :p 

 

Felicity is already friends with Caitlyn and Cisco. According to Candice Patton her and Iris will be buddies too. And we all know how Barry feels about her. So that leaves Joe, Eddie, and Harrison. I don't see why they wouldn't like her considering she's going to be helping Barry in regards to his vigilantism. 

Edited by wonderwall
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I think it's the first scenario.  Something happens at the end of 307 that TA thinks originated in Central City so they head on over at beginning of  308.  Testosterone runs amuck. Fisticuffs ensue. (No I don't think it has anything to do with Felicity.  Probably more territorial. My city, my way and we all know Oliver likes to be in charge.)  Oops it's a Flash villain running loose in Starling City.  Let's head back and bring our new BFFs - Barry, Caitlin & Cisco.

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Friends is one thing. Dropping everything to kidnap her when already capable people are on the trail? No

That's putting Felicity dangerously close to special snowflake status. 

The problem with this statement is that Barry, Caitlin, Cisco, and Harrison are already helping the people of Central City. They're already going out of their way to help innocent people. That's why I don't think it's that surprising why they would drop everything to help a friend in need. Isn't that kind of what Felicity did in order to help Walter? She essentially put herself in danger to help him. 

 

And I have no doubt that Felicity would do the same for each and every one of them. Felicity isn't a special snowflake. She's their friend. Friends do whatever they can to help each other. What do you expect them to do when she gets kidnapped? Say "Sorry we won't help because that's not our problem"? That basically goes against who Barry is as a person :p 

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But since the crossover occurs in two cities I feel it's a bit much if she gets kidnapped in Star and Team Flash comes to help in the second part. 

Plus the crossover should primarily be about Barry and Oliver and further developing their characters...everyone else takes a backseat so to speak. 

In your scenario Felicity gets development over everyone else except Oliver. 

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But since the crossover occurs in two cities I feel it's a bit much if she gets kidnapped in Star and Team Flash comes to help in the second part. 

Plus the crossover should primarily be about Barry and Oliver and further developing their characters...everyone else takes a backseat so to speak. 

In your scenario Felicity gets development over everyone else except Oliver. 

I mean, I'm not saying that Felicity will be kidnapped. I'm just saying that it's a possibility :p 

 

And I think that Barry possibly facing the death of a friend could be ripe with character development. As for Oliver, it could develop his character in regards to making his decision about keeping Felicity at arms length and finally start actively living instead of being just the Arrow. 

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I assumed that Team Arrow goes to CC because of the Clock King who they have experience with from ToD. Did I make that up?

Edited by Guest
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But since the crossover occurs in two cities I feel it's a bit much if she gets kidnapped in Star and Team Flash comes to help in the second part. 

Plus the crossover should primarily be about Barry and Oliver and further developing their characters...everyone else takes a backseat so to speak. 

In your scenario Felicity gets development over everyone else except Oliver. 

 

Most of the time when people get kidnapped they get thrown in a closet, often times with a gag in their mouth, and left to wait until they are rescued. The character development goes to their rescuers not to the victim of kidnapping.  They become the MacGuffin. (Felicity with the Count, Laurel with Slade, Thea with the fake vigilantes) None of them benefitted character wise from being kidnapped.  The character beats went to Oliver in all of those examples.

 

But I agree with Angel12d it's the Clock King.

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But since the crossover occurs in two cities I feel it's a bit much if she gets kidnapped in Star and Team Flash comes to help in the second part. 

Plus the crossover should primarily be about Barry and Oliver and further developing their characters...everyone else takes a backseat so to speak. 

In your scenario Felicity gets development over everyone else except Oliver. 

If this was the right scenario how would you know that only Felicity would be getting development? Also she should considering she's been on the show for a long time and deserves development. Oliver might take down the bad guys but, Felicity is actually the one doing all the work to find them.

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You didn't make up the part about the Clock King being in Central City.

 

Maybe that's why Felicity goes there in Arrow 1x04 in terms of the season progression, to establish herself as part of the Starling City vigilante team, and brief Barry, Cisco and Caitlin on some of the people Team Arrow has encountered.  That's how they  know who to call when Tockman shows up.

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With the Clock King I can totally see Felicity being all like 'I've got to get him properly this time!' and that's why she wants to help everyone on The Flash. Or it could have nothing to do with Felicity.

 

I don't see Felicity being kidnapped though. I am so done with the woman on this show being kidnapped. Fingers crossed!

Edited by Guest
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Oliver and Barry both have a strong connection to Felicity. The prods have called her the glue between the shows. They've given her a dyad with half the cast of Flash already, and by that point she'll have several more.

I would be shocked if it isn't something to do with her that ends Flash 108 on a note that will send them back to the grimmer realities of SC. We know they get into a fight during which Barry happily trash talks Oliver (it's literally like you're standing still) and which Stephen has characterized as him playing the older grumpier non-superpowered guy with Barry as the little dickhead running circles around him. To me, that sounds less like warring philosophies on how to handle the villain and more personal. Kind of like a couple of dudes who both are maybe kinda not entirely but not entirely not into the same girl. I mean, even when he had no powers, Barry stood up to Oliver over the way he treated Felicity. Just because he and Felicity have probably settled into a better off as friends since we're in love with other people thing, that doesn't mean Barry wouldn't feel protective of her anymore. Particularly when it comes to Oliver, since he probably got the ENTIRE story from her.

I would say that Flash vs Arrow has them in conflict, ostensibly over some practical aspect of hero-ing but on a deeper level about her. The Brave and the Bold, since that is the title of a classic team-up series, has them putting that conflict aside to handle another situation. Since EBR filmed a scene in which she is alone in the dark with a pair of scissors as a weapon, I would say she is probably at risk. If their conflict centered on her, the resolution will be too.

I am really not seeing how being the target offers opportunities for character development that being the heroes going to rescue her does not. Oliver, for example, already has Ray to contend with. Ray is more successful, more intelligent in the Felicity way, taller!, smoother, more educated, willing to push and take risks, not obviously damaged, and Jewish. The only things Ray is NOT is closer to Felicity's age and a better fighter. At least Oliver doesn't have a guy who is younger with greater fighting prowess to contend with! That sort of thing might further his feelings of creeping mortality! Oh, wait...

Does it suggest Felicity is important, both to them and to their shared universe? Of course. Because she is. I don't really know how much more clear the prods can make that.

This means that the SHOCKING REVEAL at the end of 108 has to play in here. Don't know how to work my "Tommy is alive!" pet theory in. If the 108 to 308 segue is Felicity-centric it seems more likely it's some sort of dad thing or previously unrevealed information about the intersection of her past and Oliver's.

Edited by thecatbastet
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 If the 108 to 308 segue is Felicity-centric it seems more likely it's some sort of dad thing or previously unrevealed information about the intersection of her past and Oliver's.

That could be why we got a Felicity backstory finally 3 episodes before.

 

I'd like it to be about her dad but I got the feeling from various interviews that the only Felicity parent they would be dealing with is her mother.

 

 

Katrina Law is currently in Vancouver.

Gorgeous picture. I hope the city of Vancouver realizes how effective publicity Stanley Park is for the city and never shuts it down.

Edited by statsgirl
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