Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

 

I approve of the GIF choice. 

[Trisha]

JustJared is mostly an aggregator that doesn't really do very much original reporting at all, so I wouldn't consider them a source. THR story said that most network dramas typically renegotiate in season six, but it wasn't specific to Arrow. I think some cast members are probably in negotiations now, but it's hard to tell which ones beyond SA (who's previously stated a couple of times that he's signed through S7).

I hope someone at this weekend's con flat-out asks SA how long he wants to do the show. Because I think a lot of it rests on him. With CW expanding to Sunday nights and Pedowitz previously saying he wants Arrow around for a while, a big part of it rests on how long he's willing to stay with it. 

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, Zackary said:

I think the only one they really need for renewal is SA, and since he’s locked for season 7 everything else can be sorted out.

But the first reporting was saying the renewals are up in the air because of actors contracts. 

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, Zackary said:

I think the only one they really need for renewal is SA, and since he’s locked for season 7 everything else can be sorted out.

I get that, I'm just confused as to why they would jump the gun in announcing renewal without even having an idea on the rest of the cast, which the paps/JJ were saying was the reason why they didn't announce Arrow's renewal in the first place.

Edited April 2, 2018 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Would they publicly announce that the show is coming back if they didn't already have an idea about how those contracts will be figured out? Unless the idea of shortening the season is still in the air and whatever negotiations are made would influence that.

Of course they would. Only person they can't film without is SA and he just said he's signed through S7 and will be back next year.

[Belinea]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Would they publicly announce that the show is coming back if they didn't already have an idea about how those contracts will be figured out?

Technically, the show only needs SA. Therefore they can renew the show. However, it would make sense that they try to work out their contract situation as early as possible since it probably doesn't make writing the show easier. Least of all if you want to keep the character. Judging by the public statement on Willa, she wanted out and they knew very early that she wasn't going to renew her contract. (Which might be PR but still)

But as I mentioned before, I doubt they'd let EBR walk away. Not sure about DR but if they know what is good for the show they keep him around as well. 

Also, I still find it weird that paps know about contract situations. Who tells them that? The actor? The crew? 

However, I wouldn't be surprised if S7 is either a) the last season or b) a shorter season or c) both combined. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Belinea

[calliope1975]

It's also possible that between reports that the cast was negotiating together and the renewal announcement, everything was worked out. Also that those reports weren't accurate. 

[Zackary]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

But the first reporting was saying the renewals are up in the air because of actors contracts. 

She’s stated before that she means anybody other than SA. Sorry, thought it was clear that its about everybody other than him.

[Velocity23]

Just now, Zackary said:

She’s stated before that she means anybody other than SA. Sorry, thought it was clear that its about everybody other than him.

But when Pedowitz first mentioned the negotiations it was the issue of Arrow and its cast. So there shouldnt have been the issue with Arrow unless they were waiting for the whole cast. 

Quote

“At the moment, it’s a little too soon,” Pedowitz says. “We’re noted for announcing at winter TCA that we’re picking up shows, we just weren’t ready to do that yet. A couple more weeks [and] we’ll probably get around to it. I’m pretty confident we’ll see them all back.”

The news comes as Arrow is currently in its sixth season, typically when networks enter into contract negotiations for its leading actors. “I cannot discuss casting negotiations, but I do believe some members of the cast are already signed for longer,” Pedowitz says.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

It's also possible that between reports that the cast was negotiating together and the renewal announcement, everything was worked out. Also that those reports weren't accurate. 

Or that they have a reasonable expectation that it will be settled soon.

I never thought contracts were holding up renewal, I've seen many networking/shows get renewed with lead actor contracts still in question.

I always thought it was more about scheduling and back and money (what WB will pay vs CW).

[Trisha]

Would they bother with this for Susan?

[Zackary]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

But when Pedowitz first mentioned the negotiations it was the issue of Arrow and its cast. So there shouldnt have been the issue with Arrow unless they were waiting for the whole cast. 

Renewals aren’t being based on who signs on or doesn’t. Arrow has SA and with him they can go as long as they want. I’m not sure as to your point? Some members could have already extended their contracts when he said that, we just don’t know who. They announced their entire lineup all at once. I doubt they were waiting to sign on every member of Arrow’s cast before announcing every show’s renewal. If you’re referring to her tweet, she never said renewal was dependent on cast being resigned. She just said it’s now time to wait and see who will be back and who won’t.

[Featherhat]

25 minutes ago, Zackary said:

Willa was still billed higher

Nope she's not actually billed higher. PB and ST got the highly coveted WITH Susan Thompson AND Paul Blackthorne.

Willa 5th after SA, KC, CD and DR, that's actually technically *last* in the credits in some ways because "With and And" are special. I don't deny WH was a great coup for the show, but so was PB who had had multiple series regular and recurring roles in shows for over a decade.

I do think they knew this was going to be her last season, but supposedly that's because she asked for it and they agreed, not because she wasn't originally signed on for 7. If she hadn't wanted out, she'd still be there.

22 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Strangely enough, I am not that worried. SA said that he has a contract, right. (Also they wouldn't renew the show if Arrow himself isn't locked down) And for some reason, I highly doubt they'd let EBR and DR walk away. As for the rest, I can't say I need them on the show all that much. 

I'm always slightly worried at renegotiation time because you never know if things are going to go pear shaped, even if everyone wants everyone to stay etc, but there's no point in worrying about it unless we specifically hear some worrisome rumours. 

26 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

In the case of KC we all saw billing was meaningless. so i dont give much importance to that.

Indeed, 2nd billed and probably one of the higher salaries, completely useless to the story half the time, even as BC. 

[Trisha]

From TV Line  (ETA: this seems like a diplomatic way for EBR to say that the writers dropped the ball on the Felicity/Curtis conflict and don't even bother to address how they came back together):

Quote

Question: Is there still a chance of getting Felicity’s company off the ground in this season of Arrow? —Rita
Ausiello: “Yes, Helix Dynamics sort of comes back,” Emily Bett Rickards responded when Matt Mitovich hand-delivered your question to the set last week. “Felicity and Curtis obviously got in a bit of a disagreement over a big problem, and I say their disagreement is ‘little’ because we do come back to Helix Dynamics without addressing it a major way. They just decide to accept each other back, because I think they miss each other more than anything. Which is nice. Sometimes space and time [heals wounds].” Added Echo Kellum: “You’ll see Felicity and Curtis get back on the ball, making sure that they’re focused on doing what made them great in the first place, by delving into some dynamic technologies.”

Edited April 2, 2018 by Trisha

[Guest]

Ugh. Of course they don't address the fact that Curtis is a piece of trash who shouldn't be trusted. Time heals wounds? This is just crap. But expected crap tbh.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm not surprised by that. I got the feeling of it in 616 and that was before the 619 episode description was released.

I'm also not surprised that Felicity would accept him back. Nor do I think Felicity would make a big deal about it.

I don't think OTA/NTA hate each other as much as FANS hate NTA or expect/want OTA to hate NTA.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Aeryn13]

So, they don`t adress it really? Jesus. It`s not like they just had a little tiff. That`s as bad as Curtis whining in the last episode about not being invited to Thea`s party. Do the noobs even understand what "we`re through" means? Because it does change something, Hoss. 

Though I`m a lot more miffed that the reason they give for the annual Oliver/Diggle bromance break-up is Diggle`s heretofore unseen and nonsensical desire to single-white-female the shit out of Oliver. 

Why not have Felicity leave him for Barry next? That would spread the angst even to another show. If you go crazy, go big. 

[Belinea]

Didn't Curtis tell her they are done?! See, this is exactly what is bad about the show. Many storylines don't have any emotional payoff.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

I figured he'd be accepted back considering they were still working together after the team split up, but to not even address it after the ep where Curtis and Dinah got all bitchy about Digg and Felicity wanting to see Rene? So Arrow lazy. 

[Lady Calypso]

No surprises to the above. With last episode having Curtis talk about his partnership with Felicity still being a thing, and then the press release for 6x19, I fully expected the issue to be swept under the rug. It's just shitty writing and more to the point, I'm not surprised if we're supposed to have always been rooting for Helix Dynamics to be a thing, even after what Curtis did. I do think we're supposed to see Curtis in a more positive light, moreso than Rene and Dinah. And maybe I would have been more receptive toward Helix being explored again....had the scene of Curtis physically harming Diggle through his designed technology not existed. Also, Curtis telling Felicity he was done with her. It's as if the showrunners have selective amnesia.

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

They just decide to accept each other back, because I think they miss each other more than anything. Which is nice. Sometimes space and time [heals wounds].” Added Echo Kellum: “You’ll see Felicity and Curtis get back on the ball, making sure that they’re focused on doing what made them great in the first place, by delving into some dynamic technologies.”

The Bolded part is the biggest bowl of BULLSHIT I've read in some time.

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

I figured he'd be accepted back considering they were still working together after the team split up, but to not even address it after the ep where Curtis and Dinah got all bitchy about Digg and Felicity wanting to see Rene? So Arrow lazy. 

It is lazy and it is typical of Arrow but, at this point I can't separate Lazy Writing from Character. 

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Would they bother with this for Susan?

I'd say no but have no idea who they would do it for, plus did he just confirm that Wil Traval is in 621?

Quote

Felicity and Curtis obviously got in a bit of a disagreement over a big problem, and I say their disagreement is ‘little’ because we do come back to Helix Dynamics without addressing it a major way.

Ngl, I laughed at the shade and kudos to EBR for trying to rationalize it in her head..

[Belinea]

Also, Curtis really hurt Diggle. Felicity should be angry about that for a while longer. I have to admit Curtis was fine in small dosage but the way they are writing him now makes me dislike him. It makes me dislike all the newbies. The time spent on them and their tantrums could be used to flesh out actual storylines that make sense. 

[Guest]

I think we all expected the team back together again. But to not address their issues is utter bullshit. And the fact is OTA should hate the newbies for what they've done. The fact that they don't is a problem, IMO.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

say no but have no idea who they would do it for, plus did he just confirm that Wil Traval is in 621?

Human Target?

[insomniadreams88]

That makes me so angry. I could totally see them ignoring what Curtis did to Diggle (especially after they've ignored that Curtis tracked Felicity by feeding her nanites last season) and still have Curtis somehow mention that Felicity tracked him in 609. 

UGH. 

[Belinea]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 Curtis and Dinah got all bitchy about Digg and Felicity wanting to see Rene

Considering the fact that Rene attacked Felicity's husband with an axe and wanted to do what with that? Kill him? After he shot at (accidentally) Felicity? 

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Also, Curtis really hurt Diggle. Felicity should be angry about that for a while longer. I have to admit Curtis was fine in small dosage but the way they are writing him now makes me dislike him. It makes me dislike all the newbies. The time spent on them and their tantrums could be used to flesh out actual storylines that make sense. 

The problem with that, is that even after the shit Curtis pulled Diggle and Felicity went to check in on Rene AND it was Curtis that told the to GTFO.

Like I said, I don't think OTA hated NTA as much as fans did or wanted/expected them to.

The show pretty much always had OTA being the grown ups so it's not surprising to me that Felicity wouldn't make Curtis grovel or reject a reunion.

I'm also not sure if it will get totally ignored. I expect some minor ramble from Curtis and then a quick acceptance from EBR.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Human Target?

Wonder if they try to use him to clear Oliver, or maybe use him in court while Oliver goes off to try to get Diaz or something.

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

The show pretty much always had OTA being the grown ups so it's not surprising to me that Felicity wouldn't make Curtis grovel or reject a reunion

Same, kind of disappointing, but I see it too, along with the fact that not rejecting a reunion isn't the same as begging the newbies for one, which the show also stayed away from.

[Trisha]

Well, this is promising from the Deadline article on the CW renewals. A tighter season would be amazing (personally, I think LoT's current season order is too short, but something like 18 episodes for Arrow would be perfect):

Quote

The network is expected to play with the sizes of the orders more than ever next season. It already does limited runs for a number of series including DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, The 100, iZombie, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend as well as Jane the Virgin this season. The list may grow bigger next season and include more DC shows I hear.

[Featherhat]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'd say no but have no idea who they would do it for, plus did he just confirm that Wil Traval is in 621?

Helena maybe? That would be a big thing they'd want to keep under wraps and a comic booky thing they might want to explore next season. Barry or the LOT resurrected Samantha so William can go off and live with her? Though I think AH lives in Vancouver. Could just be doing a scene using regulars that they want to keep secret for now and no surprise guest. 

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'd say no but have no idea who they would do it for, plus did he just confirm that Wil Traval is in 621?

Quote

That's what I'm wondering. It seems like a rando name drop otherwise. 

[way2interested]

13 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Helena maybe? That would be a big thing they'd want to keep under wraps and a comic booky thing they might want to explore next season. Barry or the LOT resurrected Samantha so William can go off and live with her? Though I think AH lives in Vancouver. Could just be doing a scene using regulars that they want to keep secret for now and no surprise guest.

I could see Helena potentially, but even KP was thinking CP. It can't be no one since he said that they flew the special guest back to Vancouver, didn't he?

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

That's what I'm wondering. It seems like a rando name drop otherwise. 

Seems like the familiar kind of random guest star reveal, so I'm taking it. Kind of interested to see why he's back.

[KenyaJ]

Ugh, that Felicity/Curtis spoiler is such bullshit. You can't have one character act like a total asshat to another and sweep it under the rug. If we don't get some kind of apology from Curtis for hurting Diggle and telling him and Felicity that he and his fellow jackasses were done with them, I'm going to throw something at my TV.

Like I said, I don't think OTA hated NTA as much as fans did or wanted/expected them to.

At this point, I think it matters less how the characters feel about each other and more how the audience feels about them. The (online) audience reaction to NTA has been so decidedly negative that I don't think "Bygones!" is going to work for a lot of viewers, even though I'm sure most of the audience was expecting it, based on prior precedent. But simply putting NTA back in OTA's orbit without addressing all the shit that's gone down isn't going to ameliorate the audience's feelings about NTA. If anything, it may piss us off more.

Edited April 2, 2018 by KenyaJ

[kes0704]

They can’t seriously expect the audience to just forget everything that’s happened with the newbies and continue on without consequence.  Curtis deliberately hurt Diggle using the shared company technology and Rene attacked Oliver with a axe, there’re not things you can just gloss over and instantly forget. 

Arrow has delved into resurrecting the dead, healing hot tubs, mysticism and magic but Felicity accepting Curtis back without any discussion or apology for his actions would have to be the most unrealistic thing they’ve ever done. It’s not how human beings with emotions react. 

[Morrigan2575]

26 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

At this point, I think it matters less how the characters feel about each other and more how the audience feels about them. The (online) audience reaction to NTA has been so decidedly negative that I don't think "Bygones!" is going to work for a lot of viewers, even though I'm sure most of the audience was expecting it, based on prior precedent. But simply putting NTA back in OTA's orbit without addressing all the shit that's gone down isn't going to ameliorate the audience's feelings about NTA. If anything, it may piss us off more.

It really doesn't. So what if a few fans get pissed and bitch online? Hell even if all those bitching fans quit (which doesn't happen) it still wouldn't matter. The CW just renewed Dynasty...you think they give a crap about a few Arrow fans quitting because NTA is sticking around?

Edited April 2, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[insomniadreams88]

I wonder if the person they're hiding on set is CD? Yes, SA tweeted that photo and I've seen some sites pick it up, but I don't think I've seen any of them mention official confirmation? 

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

They can’t seriously expect the audience to just forget everything that’s happened with the newbies and continue on without consequence.

To be fair, no one said that that's what was happening and that hasn't been confirmed. All that's been said is that Curtis and Felicity still work on their business to some sort of extent in the future, and it was always the newbies who had a problem with OTA, not the other way around (until parts of 614, and even then Diggle and Felicity still came to see all 3 of them). If anything, Curtis and Felicity have the least beef between each other, so the snippet that they'll still work on their business is miles different from them confirming that Rene and Oliver are going to suddenly be best friends or something. 

[calliope1975]

I'm disappointed but not at all surprised that Felicity and Curtis will be working together and bygones will be bygones. Unlike Felicity, I hold a grudge, so full warning, I'll be bitching about this for years to come. Or, until the next major plot point gets dropped. Oh Arrow writers, you are so, so terrible at your job. 

[KenyaJ]

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Unlike Felicity, I hold a grudge, so full warning, I'll be bitching about this for years to come. Or, until the next major plot point gets dropped. Oh Arrow writers, you are so, so terrible at your job. 

Same. It's shitty, plot-oriented storytelling, plain and simple.

[Lady Calypso]

I found this tweet from Rick:

So, I don't know whether he knows for sure that Rene is coming back because of his contract, but my first thought when seeing this was "Oh god, please no". I'm sure Rick is a fine person in real life, even with his questionable social media presence, but I'm done with Rene. 

[statsgirl]

The only woman I can think who merits all that secrecy if Susanna Thompson but she appeared last season. Jessica dG maybe a gotch that MG wants to hide but who cares if Susan Williams comes back?

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The Bolded part is the biggest bowl of BULLSHIT I've read in some time.

We all fanwank to make sense of what's happening on the show. Too bad EBR has to too.

 

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Like I said, I don't think OTA hated NTA as much as fans did or wanted/expected them to.

 

I'm pretty sure the EPs had no idea that fans would hate NTA this much.  They didn't know that Rene would be so disliked last season, and when they found out, they still had him full time for t his one and got rid of Rory.

58 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

At this point, I think it matters less how the characters feel about each other and more how the audience feels about them. The (online) audience reaction to NTA has been so decidedly negative that I don't think "Bygones!" is going to work for a lot of viewers, even though I'm sure most of the audience was expecting it, based on prior precedent. But simply putting NTA back in OTA's orbit without addressing all the shit that's gone down isn't going to ameliorate the audience's feelings about NTA. If anything, it may piss us off more.

 

I bet they're thinking "well, we redeemed Malcolm Merlyn, Moira and Slade, the audience will grow to love NTA again, just give them time."

The problem is that those three were better actors, and what the characters did wrong, they did as villains.  What NTA does wrong, Rene attacking Oliver with an axe, Curtis causing Diggle pain when hacking his chip and then telling Diggle and Felicity to go to hell, and Dinah just hysterical about Vince, they did as supposed heroes. You can't redeem that.

Edited April 2, 2018 by statsgirl

[KenyaJ]

13 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, I don't know whether knows for sure that Rene is coming back because of his contract, but my first thought when seeing this was "Oh god, please no". I'm sure Rick is a fine person in real life, even with his questionable social media presence, but I'm done with Rene. 

Juliana and Echo posted celebratory tweets too. That's not necessarily a guarantee of anything, but at this late point in the season, I feel like they'd all know if they weren't coming back in S7. Feh.

[Belinea]

16 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm sure Rick is a fine person in real life, even with his questionable social media presence, but I'm done with Rene. 

Is there anyone still left who is Team Rene? At this point, there is nothing about him that makes him remotely likeable. 

[bijoux]

Anatoly gets arrested in 6x17, I don’t think we heard of that before. Give me some good scenes between him and Oliver, since they’re apparently also back to pushing Dinah into Oliver’s orbit in his capacity as mayor.

[Guest]

Those 617 pics. Can we not have one episode without Dinah? JFC. They really love forcing her in every single plot this year. I'm tired. And that picture of Dragon and BS? SHUDDER. 

19 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, I don't know whether knows for sure that Rene is coming back because of his contract, but my first thought when seeing this was "Oh god, please no". I'm sure Rick is a fine person in real life, even with his questionable social media presence, but I'm done with Rene. 

Both RG and JH tweeted about S7 and both times I rolled my eyes like PLEASE LEAVE I HATE YOU. Not the actors, of course, but I'm so done with both Rene and Dinah it's not even funny. Someone even said to JH that they like her but not Dinah and she replied with "Give it time" or something like that. Sorry but no. I'm done.

The fact that the writers won't even address the conflict in the way it deserves will probably make things worse. IMO the newbies need to apologise to OTA and they really shouldn't be a big team again until next season but they're just gonna sweep it under the rug like it was no big deal. But the point is, it is a big deal. The writers and their disconnect with their audience forever baffles me. You'd think I'd be used to it by now. LOL.

[statsgirl]

I could accept Rene in the mayor's office  (except in the gun episode)  because he interacted mostly with Quentin.

I am fed up with Dinah being in everyone's story from Diggle to NAT to the police department to her own love interest to the BS arc. I am so sick of her.

[insomniadreams88]

Looking at the 617 photos, all I can think is, "WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING, OLIVER AND DIGGLE?" It's not news. We saw the promo. But still.

Also hoping we get at least twice as much Anatoly as Dragon. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Zackary said:

Willa was still billed higher. I know it’s different now because so many people have come and gone that billing doesn’t  reflect what’s on screen. Nevertheless, when they cast the pilot and planned out the series, they did so with Willa being billed higher than PB. PB didn’t simply sign on a year after Willa or anything. They both signed on at the same time and the network determined that Willa should be billed higher. When you translate that into how they negotiated the contracts, it just doesn’t seem likely they’d offer him 7 years and her only 6.

Being the very last one to be billed doesn't mean that they are at the bottom of the totem pole. When you get the "and" it can indicate higher pay then a lot of the cast. (See BTVS where AHS was technically 2nd highest after SMG and AH took his spot once he left)

2 hours ago, Trisha said:

From TV Line  (ETA: this seems like a diplomatic way for EBR to say that the writers dropped the ball on the Felicity/Curtis conflict and don't even bother to address how they came back together):

Go figure they take the easy route.