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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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tv echo

tv echo

13 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

About the dialogue tease, my first guess was that the speaker was jokingly referring to Curtis and Wild Dog, too. But then aren't all the teases supposed to be Olicity related? Or am I remembering that wrong? 

IIRC, the MG teases given to jbuffyangel only had to be about 520.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

So Cisco had been working to make the Bunker impenetrable, I assume since the last time someone strolled right in.  But we also know that Chase was supposed to be there.  Are we to assume he was only upstairs in the publically accessed area?  

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So Cisco had been working to make the Bunker impenetrable, I assume since the last time someone strolled right in.  But we also know that Chase was supposed to be there.  Are we to assume he was only upstairs in the publically accessed area?  

I thought that too, but doesn't WM say Chase set off the EMP? That means he had to be downstairs at some point. (I do think he was upstairs by the time Felicity traced him.)

So basically, Cisco made the bunker impenetrable for the team to get out of. Good job, Cisco. 

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

Rene, please, like Oliver pays the bills, you know Felicity or Thea takes care of that. 

Maybe Chase was below the bunker and that's why they go down to the basement/sewer space? They like to drop many title anvils in the episodes.

Edited by leopardprint
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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

I will handwave that they have biometric security and that's how L2L got in, but yeah they have an elevator, garage and stairs, and none of these have manual overrides? 

ETA: IIRC, she's dressed differently in the other Lian Yu photos, no? 

Edited by leopardprint
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way2interested

way2interested

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

So i am guessing the last 2 episode happen in a span of a day?

I think it might be the end/the last portion of 522 and 523 might happen in a span of a day. Like, parts of the team get kidnapped in the last few minutes, and 522 will end with that scene with Malcolm in the lair and Oliver figures out where Chase is going and says some dramatic line about needing a team, taking drastic measures, going back to Purgatory, etc. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I'm laughing that the description in the episode thread still has "martial" issues. Stay terrible, CW Publicity.

I'm glad Helix didn't betray Felicity, and I hope they can be another dark grey organization like ARGUS that reoccurs. 

It's really stupid that Cisco et. al. never thought that an EMP could be used against the bunker. That's pretty basic. But I can handwave it away under plot contrivances because...sex. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

In the preview, Oliver says Chase locked them down there because he's "up to something out there." But assuming Chase isn't down in the bunker and is in fact out of there by the time the EMP went off, could he have known that both Oliver and Felicity would be down there? What if he rigged it to go off when Felicity did something at the computer on some sort of delay (unless he knew she was getting a program that would track him and rigged it to that? But how would he know unless he was involved with Helix?), and his plan was to have Felicity trapped down there and Oliver stuck outside, unable to get to her? 

Or the whole point is to have Oliver stuck somewhere while he goes and retrieves whatever corpse Oliver receives in 521. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

In the preview, Oliver says Chase locked them down there because he's "up to something out there." But assuming Chase isn't down in the bunker and is in fact out of there by the time the EMP went off, could he have known that both Oliver and Felicity would be down there? What if he rigged it to go off when Felicity did something at the computer on some sort of delay (unless he knew she was getting a program that would track him and rigged it to that? But how would he know unless he was involved with Helix?), and his plan was to have Felicity trapped down there and Oliver stuck outside, unable to get to her? 

Or the whole point is to have Oliver stuck somewhere while he goes and retrieves whatever corpse Oliver receives in 521. 

Well Oliver lives in the Bunker.  He might even have a routine, like always home by 3 am or maybe Chase had his own biometric device that verified Oliver was trapped. Or maybe he was waiting for Felicity to show up as well since at least IMO those are the two that have caused him the most problems.  I suppose even just seeing Felicity go in to the Bunker would be enough.  Oliver's not going after Chase if Felicity was trapped in the Bunker.  Lots of reasons for Chase to do what he did even if we don't know what he expected to do.  

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

I think he wants to disable the computers since Felicity is the one that found him, they had Oliver say she was something he hadn't planned for. Unless he also knows Cisco is a terrible architect and they don't have emergency exits. How would he know Oliver was going to be drowning his sorrows in the bunker? Ok also I just want someone, anyone, even if it's Chase, to give Felicity her due! 

I'm pretty sure the cement coffin in Chase's dad who's name I forgot or someone from Lian Yu to clue Oliver in to go there for final battle. 

ETA: So Chase is an archer, ninja, lawyer, video game programmer, electrical engineer, cat burglar, and psychologist, did I miss any? 

Edited by leopardprint
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way2interested

way2interested

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Well Oliver lives in the Bunker.  He might even have a routine, like always home by 3 am or maybe Chase had his own biometric device that verified Oliver was trapped. Or maybe he was waiting for Felicity to show up as well since at least IMO those are the two that have caused him the most problems.  I suppose even just seeing Felicity go in to the Bunker would be enough.  Oliver's not going after Chase if Felicity was trapped in the Bunker.  Lots of reasons for Chase to do what he did even if we don't know what he expected to do.  

I would think that keeping Felicity (paralyzed) in there would kind of trap Oliver in there even more as well, since now he would not only be concerned with trying to get out, but also be concerned with making sure both of them get out along with protecting his now physically vulnerable friend, which could make the whole process of getting out even harder.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)
1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

So if Chase was the one that set off the EMP, that means Felicity was right to trust Helix, and they didn't betray her after all. 

Yep, she was right to trust Helix. Cisco is the one she shouldn't have trusted.

42 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well Oliver lives in the Bunker.  He might even have a routine, like always home by 3 am or maybe Chase had his own biometric device that verified Oliver was trapped. Or maybe he was waiting for Felicity to show up as well since at least IMO those are the two that have caused him the most problems.  I suppose even just seeing Felicity go in to the Bunker would be enough.  Oliver's not going after Chase if Felicity was trapped in the Bunker.  Lots of reasons for Chase to do what he did even if we don't know what he expected to do.  

It may be that it was set to go off if something elaborate was run on the computer, since only Felicity (and maybe Curtis) could do that and also Oliver was in the bunker.  It wouldn't be hard to set up.

Or maybe he was hiding above and knew when to trigger it.

I'm just glad there is an in-show reason for Oliver to be trapped down there.

Edited by statsgirl
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

I do love Oliver's healthy ego that immediately knows Chase trapped him down there so that Oliver wouldn't stop Chase. Not like he hasn't been free the rest of the time while Chase freely executed his plan without worrying if Oliver could stop him.  I guess it's a good sign if Chase now feels he has to get in Oliver's way?  So...progress!   

Edited by BkWurm1
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leopardprint

leopardprint

Hahah, I was going to say, geez not everything is about you, Oliver! But the show is called Arrow so I guess everything is about him even though Felicity is the only one who's managed to get Chase. 

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bijoux

bijoux

3 hours ago, leopardprint said:

ETA: IIRC, she's dressed differently in the other Lian Yu photos, no? 

She probably has the same outfit on under those layers. I assume she put them on the warm up when cameras weren't rolling.

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I do love Oliver's healthy ego that immediately knows Chase trapped him down there so that Oliver wouldn't stop Chase. Not like he hasn't been free the rest of the time while Chase freely executed his plan without worrying if Oliver could stop him.  I guess it's a good sign if Chase now feels he has to get in Oliver's way?  So...progress!   

LOL! My thoughts exactly. 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)
57 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Yaaay we got another pic of the cutie patootie finally!!!!!

Is that guy the director?

I think he's the hair guy? 

Or makeup artist, as @Cleanqueen said :P

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
Ooops, missed that somebody else had responded
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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
47 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

LOL! My thoughts exactly. 

I would never say a bad word about Arrow ever again if Chase fired Oliver as his nemesis for being too easy and decided to switch focus to Felicity, a worthy adversary. Oliver can go on a desperately needed vacation. 

Edited by leopardprint
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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

(edited)
6 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I would never say a bad word about Arrow ever again if Chase dropped Oliver as his nemesis for being too easy and decided to switch focus to Felicity, a worthy adversary. 

That would be so much better. 

Chase might have been mastermind villain if not for the fact that his plan didn't include Felicity. Like how could you not plan on Felicity coming after you if you decided that you wanted to torture Oliver? 

Seriously though, I am kinda of getting tired of these Big Bads sleeping on Felicity Smoak. They make all these plans involving Oliver and forget about the person who really helped bring down the previous big bad. 

Edited by TwistedandBored
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lemotomato

lemotomato

21 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

Seriously though, I am kinda of getting tired of these Big Bads sleeping on Felicity Smoak. They make all these plans involving Oliver and forget about the person who really helped bring down the previous big bad. 

To be fair, it's not like the new Big Bads gets to talk to the former Big Bads to figure out what went wrong. Slade was imprisoned on Lian Yu (and probably wouldn't admit he got beat by a woman anyway), Ra's died, DD died. Maybe if Merlyn spilled the beans about who's really the brains behind Team Arrow...

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

46 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

To be fair, it's not like the new Big Bads gets to talk to the former Big Bads to figure out what went wrong. Slade was imprisoned on Lian Yu (and probably wouldn't admit he got beat by a woman anyway), Ra's died, DD died. Maybe if Merlyn spilled the beans about who's really the brains behind Team Arrow...

Can't let him do that.  Quick.  Kill him off. ;)

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

For somebody who's supposed to be 10 steps ahead, Chase wasn't actually very well-informed with regards to Oliver and his team. Didn't he have to get the information — and photos — from Artemis? Still, you'd think he'd been clued in to just how important Felicity is to the mission given that she's Overwatch. If he were really smart, he would have gone after Felicity right away and taken her out permanently,. That would have incapacitated Oliver in so many different ways. I mean, that could still be coming but it's kinda like when we complain about Oliver being made an idiot for plot. Same thing happened to Chase, IMO.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I feel like this is as much of a game for Chase as it is a mission. 

Yes, Chase wants to destroy Oliver. But he doesn't want to do it all at once. He wants Oliver to suffer bit by bit till he's on the edge and then destroy him completely with one last blow which is to destroy who he values most (Thea, Diggle, Felicity). 

To me it makes sense why he hasn't gone after Felicity yet. Of course he knows Felicity is most important to his mission as well as most important in his life. This is why he saved her for last. 

Edited by wonderwall
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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

3 hours ago, lemotomato said:

To be fair, it's not like the new Big Bads gets to talk to the former Big Bads to figure out what went wrong. Slade was imprisoned on Lian Yu (and probably wouldn't admit he got beat by a woman anyway), Ra's died, DD died. Maybe if Merlyn spilled the beans about who's really the brains behind Team Arrow...

The others I understand. They didn't know but Chase's whole shtick is that he knows everything there is to know about Oliver and yet he didn't even plan on Felicity. That is sort of down grades him as sort of evil mastermind villain. 

 

42 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I feel like this is as much of a game for Chase as it is a mission. 

Yes, Chase wants to destroy Oliver. But he doesn't want to do it all at once. He wants Oliver to suffer bit by bit till he's on the edge and then destroy him completely with one last blow which is to destroy who he values most (Thea, Diggle, Felicity). 

To me it makes sense why he hasn't gone after Felicity yet. Of course he knows Felicity is most important to his mission as well as most important in his life. This is why he saved her for last. 

I think he should have went after Felicity right after he was done with Oliver. Now, it just seems like he is going after her because he finally knows who the real threat truly is. 

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

I'm not sure Chase's plan holds up under a lot of scrutiny. I'm to understand his plan is to torment Oliver's loved ones until Oliver snaps and he kills him but who would be like "Oliver, why did you kill the dude that wrongfully imprisoned Diggle, kidnapped La Snuze, EMP'd Felicity and also randomly killed a bunch of people including his wife and a cop? You're a monster!" I don't know, I'm beginning to think Chase might just be addicted to being extra. (as if the whistling to the golden oldies while covered in blood didn't tip me off)

Edited by leopardprint
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way2interested

way2interested

Just now, leopardprint said:

I'm not sure Chase's plan holds up under a lot of scrutiny. I'm to understand his plan is to torment Oliver's loved ones until Oliver snaps and he kills him 

His plan is to make Oliver so miserable he'd want to give up on life/being the GA/mission/hope/etc., not necessarily to kill him. Killing Chase could be an outcome that Chase could want, but I think he's more about extending/intensifying the misery. And if Oliver were to kill him now-ish (circa 518/519 but post 517 and before whatever pep talk/reply Felicity might give him in 520) in the narrative, it wouldn't be about others judging him for killing so much as pushing Oliver over the edge possibly in a way that would make him conflicted as to why he killed Chase (because Chase is a threat, or because Oliver just likes to kill since he "admitted" it?) and drive him completely to shut down.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)
53 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

I think he should have went after Felicity right after he was done with Oliver. Now, it just seems like he is going after her because he finally knows who the real threat truly is. 

Why go after her right after going after Oliver though? I think letting Oliver stew in his misery for a bit, getting a bit better and then taking that little bit of hope away from him is so much more effective. 

Chase is sadistic, he seems like a person who loves games. Why not play the long game?

Edited by wonderwall
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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

Just now, wonderwall said:

Why go after her right after going after Oliver though? I think letting Oliver stew in his misery for a bit, getting a bit better and then taking that little bit of hope away from him is so much more effective. 

Chase is sadistic, he seems like a person who loves games. Why not play for the long haul?

I just think Chase though by making Oliver miserable, he would dismantle the team and thus destroy the Green Arrow legacy. He didn't plan on Felicity at all. 

I honestly think this is why he would go with his plan B, the Island and it's evil inhabitants. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

1 minute ago, TwistedandBored said:

He didn't plan on Felicity at all. 

He didn't plan on Felicity getting him that's for sure. Oliver said as much. But again - his game is to destroy Oliver, I don't think he cares at all about getting caught.

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

He didn't plan on Felicity getting him that's for sure. Oliver said as much. But again - his game is to destroy Oliver, I don't think he cares at all about getting caught.

He might want to destroy Oliver but he needed to be free to do that. Now, Felicity has made that impossible for him. There is literally nowhere he can hide that she wouldn't find him. lol 

If he was smart, he would have started with Felicity. or Taken Felicity before outing himself to Team Arrow. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Just now, TwistedandBored said:

He might want to destroy Oliver but he needed to be free to do that.

Judging by how easily he got away from those two men - I think Chase knows he can get out of most sticky situations.

Plus I can see why Chase would want to leave Felicity for last. It's like his grand finale. HE seems like a guy who loves theatrics. I'm sure that's his flaw and his downfall. 

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

Just now, wonderwall said:

Judging by how easily he got away from those two men - I think Chase knows he can get out of most sticky situations.

Plus I can see why Chase would want to leave Felicity for last. It's like his grand finale. HE seems like a guy who loves theatrics. I'm sure that's his flaw and his downfall. 

See this is what I don't get, why leave Felicity for last? Like she is the biggest threat to his game after Oliver and he thought what...that she was gonna sit on her hands while he tries to destroy the team?

His master plan needed some work. 

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

HE seems like a guy who loves theatrics. I'm sure that's his flaw and his downfall. 

Dude took the time to reprogram a video game sight gag for his own trap, so he's definitely got a flair for the dramatic. ?Going to be taken down by his own extraness. 

There will definitely be one last trick after he's gone. 

Edited by leopardprint
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)
4 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

See this is what I don't get, why leave Felicity for last? Like she is the biggest threat to his game after Oliver and he thought what...that she was gonna sit on her hands while he tries to destroy the team?

Because maybe he believes destroying her would undoubtedly destroy Oliver in a way no other person could. She is the Queen. Take down the Queen and the King is useless. I like to think of it as his checkmate move.

And again - his love of theatrics will be his downfall. He likely let that cloud the logical side of his mind

Edited by wonderwall
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
24 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

See this is what I don't get, why leave Felicity for last? Like she is the biggest threat to his game after Oliver and he thought what...that she was gonna sit on her hands while he tries to destroy the team?

His master plan needed some work. 

I also tend to think that he made a move early on intending to destroy her and her connection to Oliver when he set him up to kill Billy.  It just didn't work so she was still around to go after him and still around to see through Black Siren and free to make friends with Helix and borrow their resources when all by herself, she wouldn't have been able to expose him.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think that having Oliver kill Billy was Chase's plan to hurt Felicity to the extent that she could never forgive Oliver and abandoned him.  Chase badly misread the situation and instead  of Felicity leaving Oliver, she turned her sights on Chase instead.

But Chase is a clever man and now he realizes that Thea and Felicity are the two most important people in Oliver's life.  That's why he's saving them for last.  If only he would leave William out of it!

If I were Chase, my original master plan would be to have Oliver feel such despair, he takes his own life.

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