Spoiler Discussion Thread

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I don't see them having someone who just came onto the team acting as a leader on her first few episodes on the show no matter what what their codename is. That would be really stupid even for them imo and I would be pissed. Not even Sara did that and she was pushed just as hard as BC.

I think the whole equal to Oliver thing will come down to her being a great fighter and not being treated like the rest of the newbies in the sense that Oliver won't train her like the rest of the newbies who he treated like inferior fighters and put them  through some pretty aggressive training. Basically I think she'll be treated as a fully formed fighter and hero from the start. 

You know this is funny because Marc said in an interview about Curtis the only way to do a Hero right and get the audience to invest is by seeing them struggling and working there way up to hero.

Im in agreement that Tina is going to be a fully trained fighter Oliver can easily slip into his Arsenal of recruits but I find it amusing if it means they writers don't care if they "do it right" with Tina haha.

[BkWurm1]

23 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Has Dinah - Quentin's ex, mother of Sara & Laurel - ever been referred to in show as a Drake?  I'm wondering if Tina is going to be either a relative of Dinah Drake or named Dinah Drake and goes by Tina.  Boland could also be a married name.  This will probably appease some who rejected Sara because she didn't have the name. She appears to be a metahuman with a sonic cry.  She's the best fighter ever.  MG did say she would have deep comic roots.  Are there any other Black Canary's besides DD & DLL?  If she is a Drake, maybe she and Quentin fall for each other and have a daughter DLL in honor of the original Black Canary  :-) 

I want to swear that yes, we did see her maiden name, but does anyone remember when?  Am I imagining things?

[tangerine95]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Laurel was doing just that the moment she found out about Oliver

I mean she tried because that was her personality and everything she said would come across as entitled and like she was giving orders. But I don't think the show ever tried to present Laurel as a leader or even co leader on team arrow. She was very much a sidekick mask imo even when they tried to pretend the whole team was equal and there was no leader in season 4. 

 

7 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

You know this is funny because Marc said in an interview about Curtis the only way to do a Hero right and get the audience to invest is by seeing them struggling and working there way up to hero.

Im in agreement that Tina is going to be a fully trained fighter Oliver can easily slip into his Arsenal of recruits but I find it amusing if it means they writers don't care if they "do it right" with Tina haha.

 Probably because they want to avoid doing another BC origin story and think a fully formed BC would be better accepted.

[jay741982]

32 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well the James as Guardian thing on Supergirl is pretty awful and I swear getting worse.  They might take themselves out of the competition.  

I don't know I like that more than the forced Kara/Mon-el romance and him eating screen time that should go to Alex and J'onn. Seriously he's in the musical instead of Alex which frankly pisses me off. God forbid Kara has Alex by her side no it's gotta be douche bro Mon-el being shoved down our throats. Seriously he's almost always by her side. Cause she can't be single and focus on herself Apparently

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I mean she tried because that was her personality and everything she said would come across as entitled and like she was giving orders. But I don't think the show ever tried to present Laurel as a leader or even co leader on team arrow. She was very much a sidekick mask imo even when they tried to pretend the whole team was equal and there was no leader in season 4

I guess this is a difference of interpreting those moments. I think they were intending to show Laurel as a leader of some kind but it wasn't earned so it failed to stick.  JMHO

[LeighAn]

All they ever did was have Oliver argue and dismiss Laurel. He never deferred power and respect to her in the same way he does with Felicity and Diggle when it comes to Team Arrow business.

The only time Laurel "gave orders" was in 3x03 when she called Felicity to get her to look something up and Felicity responded kind of dismissively that she didn't realise they were even friends.

Other then that Laurel was no more then the Roy type sidekick who would occasionally go off on her own and then get chewed out and put back in her place.

Im pretty sure Tina will be pretty much another recruit in Olivers Arsenal who because Olivers more open to Team work now, will occasionally get to speak up with ideas.

But all the spoilers and the last episode suggests that Felicity will be calling shots as much as Oliver and holding a position of power within the team.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

All they ever did was have Oliver argue and dismiss Laurel. He never deferred power and respect to her in the same way he does with Felicity and Diggle when it comes to Team Arrow business.

The comment I was replying to said the show never had anyone else who didn't earn acting like a leader. I'm saying that Laurel did act that way, regardless of whether anyone around her responded to her behavior or not. IMO Laurel was dismissive and bossy towards Felicity and Diggle from the moment she stepped foot in the lair when she had never earned a thing.

[LeighAn]

Just now, catrox14 said:

The comment I was replying to said the show never had anyone else who didn't earn acting like a leader. I'm saying that Laurel did act that way, regardless of whether anyone around her responded to her behavior or not. IMO Laurel was dismissive and bossy towards Felicity and Diggle from the moment she stepped foot in the lair when she had never earned a thing.

Well in that your right but I took that as just her personality and Katies lack of finesse and like ability haha and not a statement from the show. 

She was grieving and wanted to catch Saras killer at all costs but katie played that grief in such an arrogant and entitled way that it didn't translate .

[ComicFan777]

If Tina's attitude is anything like Laurel or Wild Dog, I don't want her around.

[LeighAn]

12 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

If Tina's attitude is anything like Laurel or Wild Dog, I don't want her around.

Well she crosses her arms, comes across smug and thinks she's funnier then she is based on what little we've seen already so....

Not looking good.

Edited February 1, 2017 by LeighAn

[Mellowyellow]

Why can't they write badass without those traits.

Alex on Supergirl is a compete badass and she's not aggro or smug!    

[Chaser]

I'm trying to remember. Have they ever used the C Plot to promote an episode like this?

[Velocity23]

You mean like Ray during 4x06?

[ComicFan777]

It would be kinda funny if JH took her acting tips from watching Laurel and that's why she's got some common acting choices as KC.

[LeighAn]

Wasn't 4x11 promoted as a straight action promo with very little about Gothlicity?

[calliope1975]

19 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Well she crosses her arms, comes across smug and thinks she's funnier then she is based on what little we've seen already so....

Not looking good.

She kind of reminds me of Tori from Saved By The Bell. Probably not the association TPTB were going for. 

[Chaser]

They always promote the action and it's hardly ever a truly accurate picture of the episode but these promos are only the C Plot of the episode, no hint of the A or B. In 4x06, Ray was sorta A plot. In 4x11, Diggle was A plot.

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

She kind of reminds me of Tori from Saved By The Bell. Probably not the association TPTB were going for. 

I'm never going to unsee that. Lol

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

She kind of reminds me of Tori from Saved By The Bell. Probably not the association TPTB were going for. 

Tori didn't have a super badass chain on her jeans though!

Also thank you for that image. 

[Starfish35]

I do understand the skepticism regarding Tina, believe me.  I haven't been wild about what we've seen so far.  But I still would like to see more before I pass judgment.  With Thea sidelined, for whatever reasons, the show desperately needs more female characters. And she would have to go a long long long long loooooooooooooooooooooooong way for me to dislike her more than Laurel.  So....*shrugs*  I'm in wait and see mode still.  But I do understand why not everyone may feel that way.

[catrox14]

I just did not like her introduction scene. It was too cliche. I thought Sara's overall introduction was just so much better. It was filled with so much heart and nuance and anger.  But that's just me.

Edited February 1, 2017 by catrox14

[insomniadreams88]

So about those reddit spoilers. Isn't that so convenient that the one Oliver chooses is apparently really named Dinah? If that is in fact true, the Internet should be interesting after tomorrow's episode. 

And if it is true, wow is that a gamble to take. What if this BC doesn't work out? What will they name the next one?

[thegirlsleuth]

Wow. And its from the guy who's super reliable. Tomorrow is going to be super interesting.

I had wondered if Tina's name was a foiler, but they built it right into the story.

They gave her the name, but I wonder how the comics fans will take it if she doesn't have the right history.  Sara was the perfect canary, but her name always held her back.  If they put "Tina" in fishnets and let Oliver grow out that Van Dyke, it will be comic book heaven.

[calliope1975]

Re: Dinah Drake. HAHAHAHHA. LOL. They really don't give a fuck anymore, do they? That legit sounds terrible. 

Well, if they're going to go full terribad, let's do this! I'm excited. 

[Chaser]

That's hilarious. This is the real real one, like really real one.

[thegirlsleuth]

Also, in the same thread, the original poster included the following snippet:

"Felicity: No one's gonna be good enough for you. Because you keep comparing them to Laurel, which is an impossible standard you might want to consider loosening.

Oliver: We just need to keep looking."

It would seem the canonization of St. Laurel continues.

[bijoux]

Just now, thegirlsleuth said:

Also, in the same thread, the original poster included the following snippet:

"Felicity: No one's gonna be good enough for you. Because you keep comparing them to Laurel, which is an impossible standard you might want to consider loosening.

Oliver: We just need to keep looking."

It would seem the canonization of St. Laurel continues.

While ridiculous, this makes complete sense in connection with the casting shown in the promo.

I hope Steve enjoys his Dick van Dyke next year.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, thegirlsleuth said:

Also, in the same thread, the original poster included the following snippet:

"Felicity: No one's gonna be good enough for you. Because you keep comparing them to Laurel, which is an impossible standard you might want to consider loosening.

Oliver: We just need to keep looking."

It would seem the canonization of St. Laurel continues.

If someone could point me to the episodes where we see this Laurel on screen, that would be great. 

#RememberSaraPlease 

[lemotomato]

If those spoilers are true, I'm going to need to buy more popcorn. And I thought last week's meltdowns were entertaining.

[Chaser]

Looks like a one episode wrap up of her island. Wrap speed.

Im trying to get this dialogue. So are they making a parallel of Tina/Vince and Oliver/Laurel? That segue into second chances, reference to saving their partners? 

Im worried Tina is an idiot. Oh wait, her name was also Dinah and you want me to wear her clothes? Okay!

[calliope1975]

Do we call her Tina or Dinah? Tinah?

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

If those spoilers are true, I'm going to need to buy more popcorn. And I thought last week's meltdowns were entertaining.

Won't  the comic fans be pleased? I thought they wanted this Dinah Drake who is a comics character?

[Chaser]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

Do we call her Tina or Dinah? Tinah?

I vote for Take3 or 3.0 or BTDT (Been There Done That)

[insomniadreams88]

Nothing against the actress or character, but naming her Dinah Drake makes me want her to fail. Because if she does, it would be very hard to bring in another BC. 

[Mellowyellow]

Errr Guys??

This is bad for Olicity right if that dialogue is true????

[BkWurm1]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Nothing against the actress or character, but naming her Dinah Drake makes me want her to fail. Because if she does, it would be very hard to bring in another BC. 

I think it would take something huge for the show runners to admit they've failed.  

The Dinah Drake reveal is so on point with what so many of us were afraid of.  So Laurel was foiler the whole time.  

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Errr Guys??

This is bad for Olicity right if that dialogue is true????

Honestly, nothing IMO has changed from when she was just Tina (And yeah, sigh, I think we are going to end up calling her Dinah).  She has a lover that she failed and Oliver has one Waaaaaaay in the past he failed and Dinah is his chance to save Laurel.  But since she's tied to Laurel and Laurel was a failed romance, nothing says they have to go there either.  

The show will IMO do exactly what we've thought, test and tease Oliver and Dinah and see if it works.  If not, Olicity to the rescue.  And who's to say it will work?  Right now the way both characters are written, I don't see it being interesting.  

So again, I don't think anything is yet set in stone but yeah, I'm still kind of pissed about what i have to sit through first to find out if I should drop it our not.  

Edited February 1, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

The write up for 5x10 didn't sound very Olicity friendly but the episode was. Who knows how this one is actually going to come across? 

It sounds vaguely flirty but it also sounds like its referencing earlier conversations. I need context.

[BkWurm1]

If Tina is Dinah and thus will likely be given the full BC treatment, then something that I demand the show do is develop a BoP dynamic between Felicity and Dinah.  I've been told that the relationship between Barbara Gordon and Dinah was core to the character, so since Felicity is Arrow's Oracle, they need to get on that immediately.  

[MaisyDaisy]

I now predict we will get a 0.4 in the demi this season. For all the praise this season has gotten from the comic crew, it didn't show up in the ratings. I think Dinah will be the last straw for a lot of people who were willing to wait out Susan, but even moderately flirty flirt with Dinah while Olicity is sidelined will turn some away. It's viewer fatigue, we have been here, done this, and the comic canon seems to come at the price of characters/relationships/friendships that actually brought in more then 1.7 million viewers. I don't have the energy or interest to watch Oliver have 'moments' with Dinah/Tina.

[catrox14]

LOOOL on those spoilers . If that is real? I'm gonna be patting myself on the back for calling it a long time ago and I think I'll be done. I'm not here for a rerun of Oliver and Black Canary.  Fuck.

[Starfish35]

Quote

So about that name.

Tina Boland was my official cover for undercover work.

It was to protect my family.

My real name is Dinah, Dinah Drake.

Hahahahahaha hahahahahaha hahahahahaha oh my goodness.  I can't stop laughing.  I'm so sorry guys.  But this is going to be epic.    I can't wait to see all the reactions. 

I still can't help being a little bitter of behalf of Sara.  :( But still.  The fandom meltdown tomorrow night is going to be something to see.  Wow. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

If someone could point me to the episodes where we see this Laurel on screen, that would be great. 

#RememberSaraPlease 

Only on Earth 267

[bijoux]

Let's be fair here. Her costume was very complex and she always managed to show up in the field in time, buckled, eyelashed and nails done. That takes skill.

[Starfish35]

Ok random sleep-deprived crazy wild speculation.  

There was some rumblings about a new spinoff, right? Geoff Johns mentioned that they would be announcing another show, although he didn't say spin-off.

What if (all disclaimers about crazy speculation apply) instead of being a setup for a new GA/BC partnership, this is all setup for a new spinoff, with Black Canary headlining, or at least playing a significant role? They couldn't do it with KC's BC because she was too unpopular polarizing.  (And Sara is anchoring a different show).  But a new Canary with all the proper comic book creds....well.  That might be a different story.  Especially if Barbara Gordon is back on the table since Titans is no longer a thing.  

I don't know.  What do you think?  Too crazy of a theory? 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Starfish35

[Mellowyellow]

I'm so sad guys. So so so sad =(

[Chaser]

Lol smh. 

I knew they weren't fans of KC/LL as BC but this is something else. I feel like GB was like 'hey let's make one of the newbies a new Black Canary, actually make her The Black Canary. If they think Laurel was just proto, even better.'  

Meta Cry? Check.

Comic Name? Dinah is pretty common! Check.

It's like they made sure Comics! Couldn't say anything.

The only part of the dialogue that sounded flirty/creepy to me was the second chances line from Oliver, but that references an earlier conversation so I don't know how it will read and its a similar theme started in 5x09 with saving BS so idk. Everything else read pretty standard too me. Completely ridiculously convenient but still, rather standard.

[Mellowyellow]

Are they really going to go there and have him bang a chick with the sameish name so he can have his second chance??? Does this not sound icky to them???

I'm so sad *sniffles*

I'm the crying shipper right now. This is Harry Potter all over again but so much worse because they actually wrote Olicity for a while. 

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok random sleep-deprived crazy wild speculation.  

There was some rumblings about a new spinoff, right? Geoff Johns mentioned that they would be announcing another show, although he didn't say spin-off.

 

Geoff Johns tweet was news about a new DCTV show, could be any show. It never specified a Berlanti show.

Well this news sucks. It makes me feel like they think we're all stupid and don't pay attention. I mean how convienant that they find someone named Dinah Drake who has a Meta cry. Never mind that we had Dinah married to Quentin Larry Lance and that they named their daughter Dinah's Laurel Lance....Nooooo this one is for realz Dinah Drake...because WB told us we needed a new BC.

Sadly, this has the looks of Sleepy Hollow and Heroes levels of self destruction. 

[MaisyDaisy]

I think as a theory it has credit. But if it was true, gosh the timing and the execution is terrible. Look at what sidelining Olicity/Felicity and bringing all the noobs has done to the ratings. How can they justify a spin off with these ratings.

i think it was/is on the table, but the ratings might force them to keep any spin offs on hold.

at this point just give me Felicity, Digg and we can take Thea as she isn't busy and give us Felicity and Friends.

[sara1121]

So are we now allowed to speculate about Tina/Dinah/Oliver romance without being accused of being "hysterical"? Probably not. But you know what, I don't care. For me, assuming those spoilers are true, Dinah Drake + "You are my second chance"=99.99% chance they are going to road test a Dinah/Oliver romance. There is a small chance that Olicity will return if Dinah/Oliver is very unpopular, but I really think Olicity is truly over and has been for a long time. I've suspected it since the beginning of the season, but the Dinah Drake name puts the final nail in the coffin for me.

Since they have repeatedly stated that Felicity's storyline is separate from Oliver, I predict the season with continue with a very minor touch of Olicity to keep the diehard "O/F are totally getting back together next episode/next sweeps episode/season finale" fans coming back + Oliver/Susan until later in the season + Oliver/Dinah flirting/being "equals", growing closer. Then Susan is gone. Dinah/Oliver have a moment by the season finale. Kiss? Maybe, but possibly not. Certainly they will be growing closer. Season six will likely be them getting together. Felicity will be off having her own storylines that involve Oliver a bit (to keep stringing those diehard Olicity fans along), but not too much. The end.

At this stage it's not so much about Oliver/Felicity for me, but the concern that Felicity will be pushed aside and get less screen time - ie becomes the Laurel in this scenario - for Tina Dinah to be the leading lady. And kind of annoyed that Felicity's boyfriend gets killed by Oliver and his reward might be  his "epic comic canon romance", while presumably Felicity will end up alone, or with another cardboard cutout boyfriend (not that being alone is a bad thing of course - just annoyed at the optics in this particular scenario).

Additional spec: We're finally going to hear Oliver utter the line we've all not been waiting for: "Pretty bird."

Edited February 1, 2017 by sara1121

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Geoff Johns tweet was news about a new DCTV show, could be any show. It never specified a Berlanti show.

I know that - that's what I was saying.  The spinoff part is just my wild speculation.