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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I really hate that 5-11 is called Second Chances.  The possible double meanings do nothing to help my calm.   

Same. But there are so many aspects of the entire series I wish it would apply to. So I'm just going to hope it's about one of those things. I almost wonder if they would have used that title for episode 100 if not for the "Invasion" crossover consistency. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

They probably thought Hey, let's make Diggle's kid a boy so we can have him for future Connor Hawke segments.  But they really screwed themselves not only with the misogyny of making Sara yet another male mask, there is no way the John Diggle Jr. on LoT was 35. Joseph David-Jones was 25 when he filmed it but also the character has the emotions of someone younger than than a man in his mid-thirties.

Another example of where they thought "Hey aren't we smart for doing this!' only to totally misjudge fan reaction.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I was confused at MG stating if JJ is CH, then Flashpoint happened. Is that in question? What am I missing? If anything, JJ becoming CH the LOT way means bad shit's going down in Starling City in the future. But what does that have to do with Flashpoint? 

I really, really dislike these writers. 

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Chaser

Chaser

Reading the latest article posted, it seems a lot of the critics are assuming it's Laurel and she is back on a more regular basis. I'm looking forward to these critics realizing that not only is Laurel not coming back, but that's not even her and it's a one off appearance to set up her replacement.  

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tangerine95

tangerine95

It really feels to me like they needed flashpoint consequences on a show other than flash so arrow changed something that wouldn't affect the rest of the show in a big way and that's mostly why Sara was erased. It's just dumb, you can tell they didn't think it through or how it looks. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

The whole JJ/CH thing is just stupid. They'll never get to the point on the show where that would matter for any longer than a glimpse into the future maybe in the series finale or another time travel trip to a possible future. There was no reason they had to erase Sara or couldn't have Diggle and Lyla have another kid or even make them twins. It was simply put there for some sort of Flashpoint consequence on Arrow and for some reason, they think that was cool and hoped no one would care/ask questions. (I still want to know why the kid's birthday changed. That hasn't been addressed, right?)

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
Quote

You start to get into the very, very complicated time travel rules that, quite frankly, I as a writer don’t have an appetite to answer unless we tell a story one day that deals with John Jr., and even then, I don’t know if we would directly address that issue head on. Anyone who watches Legends knows that, by design, we don’t spend a lot of time discussing temporal mechanics — some people like that and it annoys the hell out of other people.”

I don't care what explanation they give as long as they are consistent in their rules and really the only thing they've been consistent about is inconsistency.  A show runner on a time travel show that doesn't care about how time travel works shouldn't be the one deciding how to handle the time travel!!!

2 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I was confused at MG stating if JJ is CH, then Flashpoint happened. Is that in question? What am I missing? If anything, JJ becoming CH the LOT way means bad shit's going down in Starling City in the future. But what does that have to do with Flashpoint? 

I really, really dislike these writers. 

Flashpoint is what made Sara JJ/CH. So he's saying that the future that Big Sara went to was the one that Barry had messed with so that it must be real rather than just an option if it was right about something that even we didn't know about.  

So if it really happened, it makes every win on Arrow in the present pointless since oops, Oliver ultimately utterly fails the city, his loved ones and is alone and not only without his right hand man and girl Friday, but his right hand!  (Or left I don't remember, going for drama here)  This thing with turning Sara into JJ/CH is lazy and cheap since their cool twist not only doesn't makes sense but if it's true, ruins the show for me as a whole and commits them in a way they are now backing away from.  And yet, we have JJ so logic says Star City being a wasteland is coming.  At least on LoT I could believe that that future never happened, but now...Grr.

Just stop talking MG!

Edited by BkWurm1
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
3 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

It really feels to me like they needed flashpoint consequences on a show other than flash so arrow changed something that wouldn't affect the rest of the show in a big way and that's mostly why Sara was erased. It's just dumb, you can tell they didn't think it through or how it looks. 

I absolutely agree, I said as much right after the episode aired. I just figured a secondary reason was because they wanted that Connor Hawke connection/hint on Arrow.  Now it seems they're gun shy about going for Connor Hawke, so it just makes it utterly pointless. Guess they finally realized that the connection means LoT went to Flashpoint future IF (only IF) John, Jr becomes GA. However, they can squeak out of it by saying obviously That LoT 2046 isn't Flashpoint because John, Jr is older than Connor Hawke and never becomes Connor Hawks...until they decide to throw it all away because someone in the writers room goes, wouldn't it be kewl?!

Edited by Morrigan2575
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way2interested

way2interested

I'm just semi-surprised that the promo is spoiling that it's not really Laurel so abruptly and quickly, since given the reddit synopsis they don't find out for a little bit. Although I'm wondering if that glass breaking shot is actually from the end with Tina?

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wonder if they reworked the promo since the episode was spoiled. Went with the 'screw it' approach.

That's what I'm thinking. I wonder how MG and co. feel about the "big reveal" being revealed in the promo. All that build up for nothing lol

Maybe im imagining things but it looks like Katies nose piercing fell out from hiding during this shot

tumblr_oitreqZTOh1u6w5rho1_500.gif

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm just semi-surprised that the promo is spoiling that it's not really Laurel so abruptly and quickly, since given the reddit synopsis they don't find out for a little bit.

Maybe they think mysterious/evil Laurel is more of a draw than 'you're the love of my life, Ollie!' on her deathbed Laurel. Like maybe the audience will think it's a Sara straight out of the pit crazypants situation.?

People who don't watch The Flash wouldn't have any idea another Laurel exists, so...IDK.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

14 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wonder if they reworked the promo since the episode was spoiled. Went with the 'screw it' approach.

I don't know.  PR has often spoiled things that they probably shouldn't have.  Everyone being alive in 3.22 after Oliver "killing" everyone in 3.21 comes to mind. 

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Chaser

Chaser

I thought I saw a nose ring too, but I think its just the lighting. 

Are they in the same clothes from the party?

Also, Felicity is in black. She's going dark peoples.

KC is embracing the snarky bitchiness. Smh. They should have written Laurel that way, I probably would have liked her.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Huh. So it looks like those reddit spoilers are true. Otherwise ... why basically put the entire episode into that promo? 

Overall, I find that promo very underwhelming. And not just because I read the leaked spoilers. But it does remind me that KC plays evil well and the show did her a disservice by not letting her do that until now. 

Did I see Diggle punching Chase? 

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Although I'm wondering if that glass breaking shot is actually from the end with Tina?

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe they think that people figured out that's actually Black Siren already, so they put that in (or maybe they do actually show BS at the end of The Flash 310 and didn't think, "hey, we haven't aired that episode yet!"), but they think that maybe they can have the glass breaking and then people will be surprised when it's from Tina and not BS. But people won't be thanks to the leak. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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19 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wonder if they reworked the promo since the episode was spoiled. Went with the 'screw it' approach.

Why would they? Look how much shit has leaked for Arrow since S2 and they've never worried about it. I seriously doubt they'd start now, this is more online fandom than anything CW related IMO.

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way2interested

way2interested

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Are they in the same clothes from the party?

Also, Felicity is in black. She's going dark peoples.

KC is embracing the snarky bitchiness. Smh. They should have written Laurel that way, I probably would have liked her.

It follows the timeline of the synopsis. Party-Felicity doing tests-Black Siren reveal (although the post was super vague and didn't say Oliver was there)- Oliver (still in suit from party) talking with Chase. Looks like it all might happen the same day. Although the other shot of what looks like Oliver in regular clothes being shot away by her Canary Cry throws me off, but I guess that's when she escapes? Also I guess Oliver is in civilian clothes with Felicity go to a warehouse at some point even though I'm not really sure which point of the synopsis that connects with since Oliver's being GA when he's in the warehouse fighting Prometheus.

Also really liking KC embracing the evilness and actually semi-interested to see her like I was for her last Black Siren appearance.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

She sucked as Black Siren so I wouldn't expect much. All she's going to do is exactly what she did as Ruby (SPN) and BS. Strut around, cross her arms, make side comments, look up, look down, etc. she's just not a good actress, IMO.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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LeighAn

LeighAn

Boring promo is boring. They only thing I could say I enjoyed was how gorgeous Felicity looked in that black dress and what a nice aesthetic her and Oliver made in the loft scene. Other then that it was a whole bunch of meh.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

16 minutes ago, way2interested said:

 Although the other shot of what looks like Oliver in regular clothes being shot away by her Canary Cry throws me off, but I guess that's when she escapes? Also I guess Oliver is in civilian clothes with Felicity go to a warehouse at some point even though I'm not really sure which point of the synopsis that connects with since Oliver's being GA when he's in the warehouse fighting Prometheus.

 

Based on party clothes I think that is Rory being shot away by the sonic scream.  I think he's the one who irritates Oliver by making a move.

Felicity appears to be running in a warehouse with Curtis.  (Guy is tall and not as athletic as Oliver (SA).) 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Just now, way2interested said:

Maybe that's Prometheus in the 2nd pic and EBR really has a phenomenal right hook. 

oh lord please no :p EBR has a phenomenal right hook but I doubt Felicity does haha

Also you're ruining this

9 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Omg Felicity is totally going to punch Laurel isn't she...

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN (I haven't used this in a while)

DON'T RUIN IT :p

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Chaser

Chaser

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Boring promo is boring. They only thing I could say I enjoyed was how gorgeous Felicity looked in that black dress and what a nice aesthetic her and Oliver made in the loft scene. Other then that it was a whole bunch of meh.

I enjoyed the side by side Oliver and Felicity shots. Pretty.

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

She sucked as Black Siren so I wouldn't expect much. All she's going to do is exactly what she did as Ruby (SPN) and BS. Strut around, cross her arms, make side comments, look up, loom down, etc. she's just not a good actress, IMO.

There is nothing remarkable about her performance, but it goes Evil BS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Good BC. KC can do snide, it can get cheesy when she is going for it intentionally (smirky party BS from promo), but at least there is a spark of life.

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Chaser

Chaser

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

oh lord please no :p EBR has a phenomenal right hook but I doubt Felicity does haha

Also you're ruining this

DON'T RUIN IT :p

You should add the Come On to Olicity and Felicity's storyline. It worked with Laurel right?

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way2interested

way2interested

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Based on party clothes I think that is Rory being shot away by the sonic scream.  I think he's the one who irritates Oliver by making a move.

Felicity appears to be running in a warehouse with Curtis.  (Guy is tall and not as athletic as Oliver (SA).) 

Yep, looking at it for like the 5th time, you seem to be right. Although Felicity going into the field with Curtis seems to be pretty poor planning for the team (yet great fodder for the idea that Felicity punches BS in the final battle between the team vs. BS and Prometheus, especially if BS attempts to kill Felicity, eh, @wonderwall?)

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wonderwall

wonderwall

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

You should add the Come On to Olicity and Felicity's storyline. It worked with Laurel right?

Oliver helping to bring Felicity back into the light is my biggest COME ONNNNNNNNNNN. I don't even need a reunion (right now) if Oliver guides Felicity out of the darkness. 

Just now, way2interested said:

Yep, looking at it for like the 5th time, you seem to be right. Although Felicity going into the field with Curtis seems to be pretty poor planning for the team (yet great fodder for the idea that Felicity punches BS in the final battle between the team vs. BS and Prometheus, especially if BS attempts to kill Felicity, eh, @wonderwall?)

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)
1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe they think mysterious/evil Laurel is more of a draw than 'you're the love of my life, Ollie!' on her deathbed Laurel. Like maybe the audience will think it's a Sara straight out of the pit crazypants situation.?

People who don't watch The Flash wouldn't have any idea another Laurel exists, so...IDK.

I do think they looked at the responses to 5x09 and decided to show their cards. If you think about it this is a swerve from previous promos. They pretended Oliver was dead in 3x10 and they pretended Felicity was dead in 4x10. I thought they would pretend Laurel was alive with a emphasis on the miracle of it with just a hint of some mystery. Instead they did this. Oliver says its not Laurel and Laurel agrees. They may not of told the audience it was BS but it certainly looks like they don't want the audience thinking it's Laurel.

14 minutes ago, Trini said:

Wow; they're really going to have Black Siren on Arrow? I can't even imagine the convolutions they'll come up with to explain that. Good luck with that, everyone.

Arrow drinking game. Take a shot every time you spot a plot hole. Two if you spot a logic fail.

...........

Actually don't. Don't ever play that game.

Edited by Chaser
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

This promo seemed to write itself from the spoilers. They could've easily opened it with Oliver/Diggle talking about Laurel being back, "Laurel" saying the legends saved her, cut to their flashback scenes, cut to Felicity being suspicious of "Laurel" end promo. Leaves the general audience wondering still if she is the real deal or not but doesnt give away to much.

Are the Asian promos still a thing? They used to spoil plenty in theirs so im interesting to see what they give away in theirs.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

OMG that promo was better than the spoiler of the episode. So much felicity and olicity goodness.

Although I want to assume they changed the trailer because of the spoiler, I don't think thats the case. What else would they have shown of the episode if not the team fighting BS or them not thinking its her.

I want my 2017 gift to be felicity punching BS. But damn if the writers actually write that in, would the backlash be even worse? 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I do want to see Felicity punch BS. And really, who else could she be punching in 510 that would make sense?

Also, it seems like a good time to bring up my hope of seeing Felicity getting some training like she did from Diggle in S1. Why is the show so against that? It doesn't mean she has to mask up, but why not give her some self-defense lessons? Maybe she can get that from the new people she hangs with. It just makes sense, especially if you consider all the dangerous situations she's been in.  

The Olicity fan in me does like seeing those two together in the promo, though them together in the loft is giving me flashbacks to last year's crossover when the two teams were there and Oliver was giving the toast. And they were still together and it was before the awful BMD. 

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LeighAn

LeighAn

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Felicity isn't wearing black, she's wearing green.

That isn't important. Means nothing at all.

#itsthelittlethingsthatmaketheshiplife

Is it green is it? It looked black to me but hey I'll take green haha

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