Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

They said that Felicity would get a storyline that isn't about her father or her love interests.

Starting a start-up so Curtis doesn't feel so sad about his marriage falling apart would fit the bill.

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Didn't they also mention her father? That her storyline doesn't necessarily involve her connection to Oliver or her father?

Yes not related to her father as well. So I guess that means we won't see him back this year and they'll never explain why Donna kicked him out of her life.

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If Oliver knew that Susan was shady, why did he go to her when he was feeling so vulnerable after killing Billy and open up to her, seeking comfort?  Worst time in the worst to be with someone you don't want to expose your secrets to.

If he knows that she's got something on him, I think ultimately he could just be opening her because he wants to show her that he's a decent enough guy that she shouldn't use it. I'm not sure how he would know what exactly she has on him that would prompt him to behave this way strategically (unless we find out in a flashback gotcha that Human Target was pretending to be the PI she hired, and told Oliver what he dug up and gave to her, since we know HT knew Oliver was in Russia). There are plot holes there like, what happened to the original PI if HT was pretending to be him? Unless...maybe HT was pretending to be a PI all along and dealt with her from start to finish (this could be it since Susan and the PI knew who HT was). Did Susan never try to get in touch with the PI again - because surely she'd bring up the information that she received from HT as PI, and original PI wouldn't know about said info since he didn't provide it. Did she never bother to ask him for more info? But...this show is this show, so who knows. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

She was tied to Ra's al Ghul because Oliver her true love "died' because of him. She was tied to Damian Darhk because he paralyzed her.  This is the least she's been tied to a villain since Slade.  I don't see her trying harder to catch Prometheus because he killed Billy than she has gone after DD or Malcolm Merlyn.

I concede those points - she's as connected as she was to the last two main villains. However, what makes this different though is what Prometheus took from her, she won't get back unlike Oliver/the use of her legs.  

But my point still stands. Instead of taking down the main villain just because he's a baddie, she's taking him down because he took someone from her that she won't get back. The second Prometheus made Oliver kill Billy, it became personal to her. And I think that's still important. 

[calliope1975]

I have such a hard time believing that Oliver is playing the Rayporter because...it's Oliver. He faked out Ra's but was that his or MM's plan? Boy has routinely made the wrong decision time and time again. I'd like to hope he's learning but his curve is deep.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

I have such a hard time believing that Oliver is playing the Rayporter because...it's Oliver. He faked out Ra's but was that his or MM's plan? Boy has routinely made the wrong decision time and time again. I'd like to hope he's learning but his curve is deep.

The only reason I think it's possible is because SA pretty much said during that on-set interview a while back that this wasn't another Isabel situation, and that the outcome would be different. Whether he meant that Oliver wouldn't be such a dumbass about it this go-round, or whether he'd be played again and his magical penis and shared feels would convince her not to figuratively screw him, who knows. 

[insomniadreams88]

But if Oliver is playing Susan, doesn't it just make it another situation where he's lying to everyone about what he's doing? Are they really going to repeat that again? Especially after what she did to Thea? (And every time I think about that, I think about how Thea really needs a storyline now too, other than making excuses for Oliver, helping Lance and reminding Oliver that dating Susan is a bad idea.)

[Belinea]

I still have a hard time believing that Oliver sees anything coming. All his enemies are so clinical and have a plan that never fails and he usually begins to figure stuff out in a proper manner just in time for the season finale.

The thing with Felicity that bother me is that, yes, she lost her boyfriend which generally speaking as a regular human is horrible. But should the viewer feel her pain? I feel like that guy was never important to anybody. Nobody bothered to give them a backstory, nobody bothered to define it. She just had a boyfriend. Why? Because! It still is to me the weirdest storyline. 

At least with the report you can somewhat see how it started up and that there might be a purpose. But Felicity's boyfriend could have been her cousin and it would have done the same for her storyline. At least, I felt that way. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Are they really going to repeat that again?

Are you really asking that? Haha

[Midnight Lullaby]

The reason I think Oliver is playing Susan is SA remarking the difference between this situation and what happened with Isabel and also his insistence that they didn't sleep together. That could also be because of the tattoo like some said or because he realized Oliver wouldn't have looked good but it could also mean Oliver doesn't want to sleep with her when he is only playing her. Also the show loves trying to take the viewers by surprise and I think Oliver not being fooled would do the trick.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Belinea said:

The thing with Felicity that bother me is that, yes, she lost her boyfriend which generally speaking as a regular human is horrible. But should the viewer feel her pain? I feel like that guy was never important to anybody. Nobody bothered to give them a backstory, nobody bothered to define it. She just had a boyfriend. Why? Because! It still is to me the weirdest storyline. 

Their buildup for almost everything was kind of poor this season. 

• I felt bad for Billy and for Felicity losing her boyfriend - but not enough to root for Felicity for wanting to work harder to take down Prometheus. The reason why is because we only saw them only a couple of times together and them being together in the first place felt rather contrived. The audience doesn't even know what Felicity saw in him or why she was with him or why she cared so yeah. The twist was great - but the impact of the death was meh
• Evelyn turning into a baddie was poorly done as well because no one was invested in her enough as a newbie to care
• No one was invested in Curtis/Paul to feel bad for Curtis when Paul walked away because we've only seen them together twice

[insomniadreams88]

I feel like if Billy hadn't been killed, Felicity would have broken up with him. She still couldn't call him her boyfriend. But they would've had Oliver and Susan get together around that time to avoid Oliver and Felicity being single at the same time (because the horror! otherwise). Hey, maybe they even would have had Felicity waiting in the lair for him when he came back from Susan's to make it really hurt. 

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Are you really asking that? Haha

I'm not so much asking as begging, "please don't do that. Please." 

[Mellowyellow]

I'm going with Smoak Technologies as her storyline or her going off to avenge Mayo.

Even though she wasn't that into Mayo I can actually see that as adding more to her guilt and needing to avenge him. Maybe she thinks she should never have been involved with him in an attempt to get over Oliver and if she dated Mayo at all he wouldn't be dead. That might actually cause more guilt than if she had genuinely been in love with him.

Other than those two theories I have no idea what it could be. Unless they pull a Supergirl and have Felicity explore her sexuality with Tina which would be completely random and doesn't contribute to the main plot!

ETA: Someone mentioned that if they were looking to write Felicity out then Smoak Tech would be a good way to do it. Have her off with her own project, living her own life while Oliver gets the new BC love interest. I could make peace with that!

Edited December 11, 2016 by Mellowyellow

[Sunshine]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

They said that Felicity would get a storyline that isn't about her father or her love interests.

Starting a start-up so Curtis doesn't feel so sad about his marriage falling apart would fit the bill.

It would but I don't remember anything in 5.02 that would have started that arc unless it was Curtis wanting to be a vigilante.

Felicity had a couple of things going on in 5.02  She's the buffer between Oliver and the recruits. Shows a leadership role. She hears Ragman's story for the first time.

In 5.03 she is there for Oliver and she tells Rory the truth about Havenrock.

In 5.04 she is the sort of the leader and sends the Team into the field.  She also tries to get Rory back on the team by talking to him.

In 5.05 she has a nooner with Malone and Oliver gets clarity thanks to Human Target. Mortal lock dialogue.

In 5.06 she tells Malone the truth about who she works with and gets info relating to the killing stars.

In 5.07 she's team background more than anything else.

In 5.08 she's calling the shots (or Flash/Supergirl) to get support for the noobies going after whatever tech trying to locate the team.

In 5.09 she is basically running down clues from her computer and fighting with the boyfriend .  (I did think it interesting that she had more faith in Oliver than in Billy surviving a confrontation with the "Throwing Star" killer.

They said they were positioning her to do something "new".  Based on the setup I would say it looks more like recruiting vigilantes/deploying teams/running ops than creating a start-up.  This is S5 new.  My problem, which I've said along, is if she creates a start-up this year it will be more about Curtis/Mr. Terrific than her.  In S3 & S4 her non-team time was split with Palmer Tech so I'm not sure a start-up would be considered new.  Whatever started in 5.02 is supposed to still be paying dividends in 5.12 "Bratva" .  Does her 5B arc start after this?

I know plans change but in season 3 DC told them they couldn't use the name Oracle.  MG said the name changed but that didn't change their actual plans for Felicity.  She could become an information broker to other superheroes outside Green Arrow.  She could run her own information gathering team. Or, she could start-up a company, which would greatly curtail her vigilante duties, so Curtis has a place to develop his tech.   

Edited December 11, 2016 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I know plans change but in season 3 DC told them they couldn't use the name Oracle.  MG said the name changed but that didn't change their actual plans for Felicity.  She could become an information broker to other superheroes outside Green Arrow.  She could run her own information gathering team. Or, she could start-up a company, which would greatly curtail her vigilante duties, so Curtis has a place to develop his tech.   

I like this the best. I'd rather see Felicity go Dark Hat/White Hat hacker. Become an information broker for various groups. I prefer that to recruiting masks for Oliver.

I'd love it if she started working with Lyla as an Argus analyst/agent. 

[statsgirl]

The only reason I could see Felicity trying even harder to go after Prometheus because of Billy's death is because of her guilt that she didn't really love him or help him go after Prometheus and now he's dead. But in this night time version of General Hospital wimminz don't matter enough to have their own storylines.  Especially wimminz who don't wear masks, and even if they do (compare Evelyn & Rene).

Also, it's not like Felicity needs an excuse to go full steam after the bad guy. Well maybe season 5 Felicity does considering how lackadaisical she was when her five good friends (and two former lovers) were kidnapped by aliens.

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

If he knows that she's got something on him, I think ultimately he could just be opening her because he wants to show her that he's a decent enough guy that she shouldn't use it.

If that's the plan, then it's a really terrible plan.  "Please don't use the information that you have that I lied to the world because I'm really a nice guy."  It not only makes her an incompetent reporter, it makes her someone who would trash a huge story because she has feelings for a guy she barely knows. And it makes Oliver look bad because he's manipulating her about her feelings.

Susan was texting to someone in Russia while she was waiting for Oliver (described it as having a twitter fight  -- hah, lying again) so she's still trying to dig up dirt on him.  I don't get how he can trust her even an inch after how she manipulated Thea.

48 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The reason I think Oliver is playing Susan is SA remarking the difference between this situation and what happened with Isabel and also his insistence that they didn't sleep together.

The difference could also be that this time Oliver catches on before she has a chance to destroy him unlike with Isabel when he only figured it out when it was too late.

Quote

"We’re positioning her to do something in the second half of the year that is really, really key, and that isn’t about her relationship with Oliver or even necessarily her father or her mother. It’s really new territory for her, and we’ve very excited about it. Some big things are going to happen with Felicity.”

I got the feeling that what started in 5x02 would still be paying dividends for Diggle's storyline, not Felicity's. For Felicity, the Havenrock guilt ended in 5x04 when the reason for it resolved, which was to have Rory join the team.

 Recruiting vigilantes/deploying teams/running ops would still be about Oliver because it would be about helping him save the city.  That's the same thing she's been doing since season 1.  And if she does stay on the team, I have to insist that Rene start respecting her.  The adolescent routine got old long ago.

The wording "or even necessarily her father or her mother" worries me because it means it could still be about her father.  As much as I liked TA in the role of Noah, I don't want Felicity to always be about a man in her life.

[DrSpaceman10]

54 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

ETA: Someone mentioned that if they were looking to write Felicity out then Smoak Tech would be a good way to do it. Have her off with her own project, living her own life while Oliver gets the new BC love interest. I could make peace with that!

Why would they want to write Felicity out? She's a fan-favorite (see her numerous crossovers), she had a huge part in launching both spin-offs (see Barry and Ray), she's constantly making best character lists (see THR 50 Best Female Characters), outside of Oliver she probably has the most connections to characters in the Flarrow-verse, and she's half of one of the most popular couples on TV with Olicity. 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If that's the plan, then it's a really terrible plan.  "Please don't use the information that you have that I lied to the world because I'm really a nice guy."  It not only makes her an incompetent reporter, it makes her someone who would trash a huge story because she has feelings for a guy she barely knows. And it makes Oliver look bad because he's manipulating her about her feelings.

I mean, I don't know what other way he could go about keeping her quiet? He can't very well tell her he knows what she's up to - there's nothing stopping her from broadcasting whatever info she has on him right away - the only thing he could do is dig up some kind of dirt on her or appeal to her good nature and what she knows of him as a person to keep her quiet. And if she's manipulating him for a story - which she clearly is - then how would he look bad for manipulating her about her feelings when she thinks she's doing the same thing to him?

And the way SA talked about the arc indicates that her relationship with him is going to be what keeps her from outing him. So, it seems like she's already gonna trash a huge story because of how she feels about some guy she barely knows. 

Quote

I don't get how he can trust her even an inch after how she manipulated Thea.

That's why we're hoping that he doesn't - and this is all some kind of a ruse. 

[Mellowyellow]

15 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

Why would they want to write Felicity out? She's a fan-favorite (see her numerous crossovers), she had a huge part in launching both spin-offs (see Barry and Ray), she's constantly making best character lists (see THR 50 Best Female Characters), outside of Oliver she probably has the most connections to characters in the Flarrow-verse, and she's half of one of the most popular couples on TV with Olicity. 

To launch BC and the epic GA/BC romance. Didn't someone say DC was demanding full on comics to happen?

They need to get rid of her if they are going to make it work. 

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

To launch BC and the epic GA/BC romance. Didn't someone say DC was demanding full on comics to happen?

They need to get rid of her if they are going to make it work. 

This is my fear. Just look at the flashback in 509. How is anyone supposed to believe Oliver in an "epic romance" with someone else when he looked so smitten at a time when he shouldn't have?

I feel like I've said it before, but I really hope the writers surprise me with Felicity's arc and it's something so good that it somehow makes up for 5A. (It would have to be big for that to happen though.)

[statsgirl]

Quote

I mean, I don't know what other way he could go about keeping her quiet? 

I'm not saying it's not going to go down like that, because this show makes some of the worst moves, but as a plan it's right up there with trusting Malcolm Merlyn.

15 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

And the way SA talked about the arc indicates that her relationship with him is going to be what keeps her from outing him. So, it seems like she's already gonna trash a huge story because of how she feels about some guy she barely knows.

If she's manipulating him for a story, and we know she is given she's still digging up dirt on him in Russia, how impossibly arrogant of him to think that she would tank it " because of how she feels about some guy she barely knows" as you say.  That's not the shark she was presented to be.

A better way of keeping her quiet would be to give her access to some wonderful initiatives he's doing to help Star City so that she could see that bringing him down wouldn't help anyone but her own career.  But then, it wouldn't be Oliver's magic penis that saves the day.

That absolute stupidest thing he could have done was to go to her when he was feeling vulnerable and reveal his feelings and self-doubts, opening himself up to her future attacks if she chooses that route.

Edited December 11, 2016 by statsgirl

[insomniadreams88]

Well, maybe that's why she leaves - she loses her job because she drops the story on the mayor and claims she doesn't have anything to write even though she probably told her boss she would. Why else would she be able to give Oliver that month reprieve without her boss getting on her case? 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If she's manipulating him for a story, and we know she is given she's still digging up dirt on him in Russia, how impossibly arrogant of him to think that she would tank it " because of how she feels about some guy she barely knows" as you say.  That's not the shark she was presented to be.

It's not me saying it. Stephen Amell said it:

Quote

Amell added that he thought it would be "most interesting" if Susan Williams wasn't another Isabel Rochev-type and that "maybe her relationship with Oliver will become dynamic and she won’t wanna do what she did to Thea in the earlier part of the season." 

Quote

A better way of keeping her quiet would be to give her access to some wonderful initiatives he's doing to help Star City so that she could see that bringing him down wouldn't help anyone but her own career.  But then, it wouldn't be Oliver's magic penis that saves the day.

That absolute stupidest thing he could have done was to go to her when he was feeling vulnerable and reveal his feelings and self-doubts, opening himself up to her future attacks if she chooses that route.

Didn't she give him that 30-day reprieve on exposes to show her what he's got as a mayor? Seems like he's already giving her access to some of the wonderful initiatives he's got going on to help Star City, and she's still digging up dirt on him, so IDK how much of an incentive that would be. 

And yeah, Oliver opening up to her is stupid. But he is stupid. And if there's a gotcha coming up as far as him trusting her, then I don't expect a whole lot of his actions where she's concerned to make sense except for to set up said gotcha. 

[insomniadreams88]

The problem with Susan is that in her first episode she used Thea. I kind of hope Thea ends up keeping her promise. 

And considering what we saw of Oliver and Thea's relationship in 508 and the beginning of 509 until Susan showed up at the party, I can't believe that he's decided to trust someone (or even pretend to trust someone) who did what she did to her. 

[Cleanqueen]

32 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

To launch BC and the epic GA/BC romance. Didn't someone say DC was demanding full on comics to happen?

They need to get rid of her if they are going to make it work. 

It's been done and failed not sure how many times one can try for a live action version of an "epic" romance that's not as epic as some folks like to make it out to be. This is season 5, the show has at least two seasons in the bag, they're not getting rid of a fan fav character to recreate something that's yet supposed to be believable on screen.

[Sunshine]

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I got the feeling that what started in 5x02 would still be paying dividends for Diggle's storyline, not Felicity's. For Felicity, the Havenrock guilt ended in 5x04 when the reason for it resolved, which was to have Rory join the team.

 Recruiting vigilantes/deploying teams/running ops would still be about Oliver because it would be about helping him save the city.  That's the same thing she's been doing since season 1.  And if she does stay on the team, I have to insist that Rene start respecting her.  The adolescent routine got old long ago.

The wording "or even necessarily her father or her mother" worries me because it means it could still be about her father.  As much as I liked TA in the role of Noah, I don't want Felicity to always be about a man in her life.

Both Diggle & Felicity's storylines are supposed to still be paying dividends in 5.12 according to BFS's tweet.  

Diggle is in jail in 5.10 so he's probably still fighting for his freedom in 5.12.  They took a break in his arc from 5.05-end of 5.09 other than he could only leave HIVE/bunker as Spartan which seperated him from his family and caused some frustration and OOC behavior.  DR did say Oliver & Felicity would be there for him.

Felicity could very well be working with Lyla to track down information/people to get Diggle released.  It could also lead to more information acquiring for Argus.  Felicity's dad brokered information for gain. My guess is she would be doing it to help people.  In 3.10 Felicity decided saving the city was her mission not just Oliver's.  By my count, there will be at least 6 or 7 vigilantes/heroes on screen - Green Arrow, Diggle, Wild Dog, Ragman, Mr. Terrific, Speedy,& NuCanary.  Not every crime needs that many people deployed to them. Even if she's operating out of the bunker it could mean she determines which heroes go.

It is possible that saying it's not about "her relationship with Oliver or even necessarily her father or her mother" might simply have been MG's way of saying it's not about her relationships.  It's about what she wants outside those relationships inspired by no reason other than this is who she is.  In the last two episodes TA was in, the focus was on mom & dad's relationship more so than Felicity.       

[jay741982]

6 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, I hope Prometheus has another source because otherwise he's going off information from a 17-year-old and public knowledge about their personal lives? 

Hoping that's what Susan is for!

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

To launch BC and the epic GA/BC romance. Didn't someone say DC was demanding full on comics to happen?

Um no one ever said this. 

[Chaser]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

The only reason I think it's possible is because SA pretty much said during that on-set interview a while back that this wasn't another Isabel situation, and that the outcome would be different. Whether he meant that Oliver wouldn't be such a dumbass about it this go-round, or whether he'd be played again and his magical penis and shared feels would convince her not to figuratively screw him, who knows. 

I kind of wondered if there was more to SA's denials (regarding Oliver and Reporters night) than meets the eye. If Oliver turns out to be playing Reporter, a kiss is one thing but sex is ugh.

[Chaser]

Re: DC Comics, GA and BC. I speculated that DC had a hand in them bringing in another BC. That does not mean they are going live action Rebirth. I don't think that is the case at all. 

[insomniadreams88]

I wonder if they never address if it was a kiss/sex, and once they realized how it came across - Felicity grieving alone, Oliver going to the reporter - they decided to go the route that doesn't make Oliver look worse. Especially if there's any plan to get Oliver and Felicity back together. 

The best thing they can do with a new BC is no GA/BC romance at all. I think that might help with the reception of this BC with everyone, especially since she's not Dinah Laurel Lance - show fans, comic fans, certain character/ship fans, etc. 

[LeighAn]

Yep if Tina is a Black Canary of some version of a mask that the writers CW/WB want to take off and be well received then the absolute last thing they should do is making her a wedge in an established and popular relationship if they ever hope for the audience to like her. Especially given the reception to other temporary LIs.

I've said before when Brandon Routh was announced multiple articles mentioned how he was suppose to have his own ATOM spin off and Im pretty sure even the CW president mentioned they planned to spin him off at one of the TCAs the fact that he didn't and plans changed to more of an ensemble show I would not be surprised if it was due in part to the lack of reception he got in season 3.

However do I think the writers or CW/WB are smart enough to realise that it's pretty dumb to make Tina a third party Olicity cockblocker and have the audience like her? Um not so sure on that one....

I think if they have her and Oliver develop a close relationship and still not have Oliver and Felicity reunite or look like they are close to reuniting by the end of the season then it's anyone's game. I mean Stephens video where he waxed poetical about how super important Black Canary is to the Green Arrow was suss to me as he's never really cared about canon before and openly admitted he's never read the comics. 

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I mean Stephens video where he waxed poetical about how super important Black Canary is to the Green Arrow was suss to me as he's never really cared about canon before and openly admitted he's never read the comics. 

I don't think he cares about comic canon now, he's just buttering people up for the new BC they're getting ready to bring on. I've noticed how anyone who brings BC up lately (SA and DR have both done it) specifically mention Black Canary's value, not Laurel Lance's. I'm sure there are viewers who only care about seeing a pretty woman in a tight suit and don't much care who the pretty woman is, but I'd be willing to bet that a whole lot of the people who care about Black Canary care about who is behind the mask. Not sure how well Tina Boland, Black Canary is gonna go over. 

I am fairly sure that bringing on a new BC right after teasing Laurel Lance fans with her return is a really, really big mistake though, lol. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

So, so much a mistake.

I was noticing at another site that most of the posts happy with the last episode were from people who thought that KC/LL was coming back on the show now that the EPs have seen their mistake in killing her off, and thinking about coming back to the show again..

Maybe I'm a bad person but the only thing I'm looking forward to in 5B is their rage at MG when they realize that she's not really back at all.  Let's share the pain of this season all around.

[kes0704]

At least we know one thing about episode 510...even if the episode itself ends up not being that entertaining the social media melt down that follows will be.

Edited December 11, 2016 by kes0704

[tv echo]

If Felicity exited the show (for whatever reason), I would definitely stop watching.

As for Felicity's 5B storyline, I think it'll be tied back to Havenrock - her way of atoning - and that it'll involve Rory. That would explain why Felicity and Rory aren't in the 511 diner scene. Maybe she sells her stock in Palmer Tech and uses the multi-million dollar proceeds to build a new development in Havenrock's memory? Maybe this new development will be a haven ("haven" - get it?) for people with powers like Rory? That would also provide a reason for Rory to leave the show after this season. Remember this 511 pic that MG tweeted? 

I now think that Tina won't hook up with anyone this season, but just join Team Arrow - temporarily at first and permanently by the end of the season.  If the EPs expect the show to last another 3-5 years, then they may be planning another slow building love connection. That'll give them time to see how her character pops with fans and if people start spontaneously shipping her with Oliver or Wild Dog or whoever (you know, "organically"). I still think she's an intended love interest for someone currently on the show, but I now think they'll wait until next season for the actual hook-up. In the meantime, they'll work on making her a likeable character - tough fighter with amazing skills, warm and sometimes vulnerable character with sympathetic back story, loyal friend, etc.

Edited December 11, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

There is no way of knowing if Tina if even sticking around.  She is recurring at the moment like most of the newbies. 

[insomniadreams88]

And if she doesn't work out, they can always just put out an ad on Craigslist: "Seeking new Canary to team up with Star City vigilantes. Just ask anyone where our lair is. And don't worry about security codes. You should be able to figure them out. (Or ask the villain currently terrorizing the city.) We'll be waiting inside for you." 

[looptab]

Sorry guys, I've been catching up like three pages in ten minutes bouts and now I'm super confused - so it's been confirmed that Tina is going to be the nuBC? How did SA end up talking about BC's importance? 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, looptab said:

Sorry guys, I've been catching up like three pages in ten minutes bouts and now I'm super confused - so it's been confirmed that Tina is going to be the nuBC? How did SA end up talking about BC's importance? 

No, it hasn't been confirmed - we're just making educated guesses on Tina. SA talked about BC's importance in his post-MSF Facebook live chat. Maybe possibly to fool people into believing that Laurel is back to be Black Canary, but definitely to get them excited for whoever is taking over the mantle next. 

[bijoux]

It hasn't been confirmed, but SA has apparently talked up BC's importance in the GA lore in his Facebook live video, so people are drawing the conclusion that it was with the intention to pave the way for the new BC. Since Tina is the only announced female recurring character (aside from Talia), it seems logical.

[looptab]

Oh, okay. Thank you guys. :)

[tv echo]

New spoilers have just added to the speculation that Tina will be the New BC... 

Canadagraphs posted a 511 filming report, which stated in part: "When I returned they had moved to an alley that leads into the alley behind the restaraunt they were at. In the alley was the 'Green Arrow' (never saw him standing or from the front, so unsure if it was Stephen or his new stunt double.) and 2 actresses both dressed the same. One was Juliana Harkavy, the newest addition to the Arrowverse as 'Tina', and the other, her stunt double. Just like the Green Arrow I saw, I never saw either of them from the front, so unsure which was which. Shortly after they all moved into a small parking lot off the alley that was impssobile to get any view of and they shot scenes were GA tries to convince Tina that there is a better way to do things. This is essentially the START of her being brought into Team Arrow I think." 

In a post-509 facebook chat, SA said that if you just look at comic canon, the BC is the most important character next to the GA, saying: "It would be very nice to have the Black Canary back."

There were also DR's recent comments at CCXP-Sao Paolo Expo: "I will say that the Canary's death meant a lot to the fabric of the Arrow universe, to the fans...  And I don't know if the producers - I think that they did, I mean, I can't speak for them - but I don't know if anyone really expected as large a response as they - as we got from the fans. Um, at least I didn't expect it. And I'm not quite what the writers or producers expected. I'm sure they expected some. But it was a very large outpouring of grief really from the fans as well... So I'm not quite - I think they took some of that to heart and I'm not quite sure what's going to happen exactly with the Canary character, um, but they're listening... I - I - I know some things are - are percolating, you know, because they really are listening to how the fans reacted to Canary's death. And that's all I can really say about that."

Edited December 11, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

2 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In a post-509 facebook chat, SA said that if you just look at comic canon, the BC is the most important character next to the GA, saying: "It would be very nice to have the Black Canary back

But was this out of the blue or answering a question?

[tangerine95]

Honestly I feel like getting a new BC is a DC or WB request because as dumb as these EPs can be I don't think they think that the people who were upset about LL dying will be happy with a random character becoming BC since they didn't even accept Sara in season 2 or that many fans want a 3rd retelling of the BC story.

I think Tina won't be better accepted than most of the newbies because the main issue with them imo is that they don't have an actual purpose or bring anything new to the show or team since all the masks do the same thing basically. And everything BC related has been already told to death with Sara and Laurel so she has that working against her too if she really is BC.Imo her best shot at being accepted with a lot of fans is if they write her as a friend to Felicity and Thea since female friendship is something that's actually missing on the show.

[Velocity23]

11 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I think Tina won't be better accepted than most of the newbies because the main issue with them imo is that they don't have an actual purpose or bring anything new to the show or team since all the masks do the same thing basically. And everything BC related has been already told to death with Sara and Laurel so she has that working against her too if she really is BC.Imo her best shot at being accepted with a lot of fans is if they write her as a friend to Felicity and Thea since female friendship is something that's actually missing on the show.

They could even try a BOP kind of episode with the trio of girls. 

[tv echo]

29 minutes ago, looptab said:

But was this out of the blue or answering a question?

Responding to fan comment. From SA's post-507 facebook video chat (Dec. 7, 2016):

-- Fan said that "it would be awesome if the Black Canary came back."
-- SA replied: "And I agree. Lots of consternation within the fanbase about what's important the Black Canary - in the Green Arrow-verse. And I will say that - forgetting about the show for a second - if you just look at the canon of Green Arrow, John Diggle wasn't actually a character and he's indispensable. Felicity Smoak wasn't really a character and she's indispensable. So we picked and plucked from various parts of the DC universe. But if you're just getting into the canon of Green Arrow - the comic book character, not necessarily the show, but the comic book character -  ... Black Canary is easily the most important feature next to the Green Arrow. Period. Full stop. Forever. So it would be very nice to have the Black Canary back. I would agree with that."

Edited December 11, 2016 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

I hope he is aware when fans ask about the Black Canary being back they mean Laurel. I don't get what they hope to achieve baiting fans like that..

[insomniadreams88]

You know, if this Laurel is Black Siren like we've been speculating, I hope we find out about the others on Earth-2. We only know that that Oliver is dead (or presumed dead at least), right? 

[tangerine95]

Yeah I don't know what they're trying to do but if they want to transition to a new BC the worst thing they can do is bait LL fans like this and at the same time annoy people who dislike her by constantly bringing her back for guest spots and mentioning her. The fans who want BC back literally mean only LL and I seriously doubt they will be happy with their plans.