Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Since it's a shared dream I can only assume the aliens cherry picked themes. It doesn't really make sense for Diggle to wear the hood, unless they're going to say that Robert sent his employee Diggle on the Gambit?

Would also help explain the bow. I would like for them to give a good explanation for all of that but I doubt we'll get that lucky.

[Guest]

I don't really see much about this dream world making sense so I don't really care how Diggle ends up being GA. I guess it's just to show that both Diggle and Felicity will always be there fighting that fight as Team Arrow no matter what? IDK. It's like a constant. 

[statsgirl]

The shower scene, at this point, looks like Oliver is taking a shower, Laurel interrupts him, he's all "Why are you here?" and she flashes the ring at him to show that it's okay, they're getting married.

I missed seeing Felicity with Diggle Arrow.  Is that in the promo too?

Quote

I can see Diggle creating a dream where Felicity is with him.

It would be a nice metastatement showing that Felicity is neccessary to the Vigilante even if she's not a mask.

Edited November 30, 2016 by statsgirl

[Sunshine]

Felicity is in the background of the shot when DiggleArrow throws Oliver to the ground.

[EmilyBettFan]

32 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I was enjoying not seeing Laurel. I skipped her Flash episodes and only tuned in to watch her death. Now I'll have to watch the awkward Laurel/Oliver scenes tomorrow.

You'd think if KC or the writers cared at all about the actual character of Laurel, they'd want her to be more that just a love interest. 

That's just it. All the cared about especially KC is her being a LI. She's transparent.

[Chaser]

I wonder how he figures out who is real and who is a delusion.

[tarotx]

I think this is going to be a shared dream world shown to us via centric character Oliver. (This is his show after all). But because this is a shared world everybody is going to influence it but we'll see it mostly as it affects Oliver. At least in the beginning. So I think Laurel's importance is because Sara would do most anything to have changed Laurel's fate. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tarotx

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

So, I got 2 out of 3 right. First Meet, First Kiss, I didn't get the First Date flashbacks

Nothing saying it won't show up in the episode.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

But it's Oliver's dream, isn't it? It would've made sense to include her since he was listing people who died in front of him - she was one of them. Not a big deal, I just thought it was weird.

We've known that Ray, Sara and Thea were there all along.  It's always made sense to me that the dream is built from all of their wishes.  It's just set in a world where Oliver never went on the Gambit.  

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Since it's a shared dream I can only assume the aliens cherry picked themes. It doesn't really make sense for Diggle to wear the hood, unless they're going to say that Robert sent his employee Diggle on the Gambit?

I can see Diggle creating a dream where Felicity is with him. I can also see how Diggle might become a Vigilante due to the Undertaking. Just not sure about the leap to Arrow.

 

It's all dream logic and a fake world where emotions and memories are being manipulated by aliens.  It's not an alternate time line.  Just a hodgepodge of stuff in a blender, lol.  

Edited November 30, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

17 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's all dream logic and a fake world where emotions and memories are being manipulated by aliens.  It's not an alternate time line.  Just a hodgepodge of stuff in a blender, lol.  

Exactly.  It's not an alternate universe, where if this one thing changed, logically these other changes would follow.   It's all a dream, so anything could happen.

[Midnight Lullaby]

There's another scene with Laurel in the promo where she asks Oliver if he is okay.

Anyway I looooove that Felicity and Dig are team Arrow in the dream too. I love that more than I care about seeing Oliver and Thea with their parents again and that says a lot because I love and miss Moira.

[Chaser]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The shower scene, at this point, looks like Oliver is taking a shower, Laurel interrupts him, he's all "Why are you here?" and she flashes the ring at him to show that it's okay, they're getting married.

I missed seeing Felicity with Diggle Arrow.  Is that in the promo too?

It would be a nice metastatement showing that Felicity is neccessary to the Vigilante even if she's not a mask.

I'm betting the shower scene goes like this: Oliver steps out of the shower making a comment about an upcoming wedding. He hands a towel to the occupant coming out behind them. GASP! It's Laurel! She's wearing a wedding ring! They're getting married?! Oliver leans to give her a kiss. GASP! Look at his back! No scars! This isn't real?! Scene.

I got questions. How quickly does he start seeing flashes to his real life? Is it only his vigilante life and Felicity he sees? Does he get flashes of his Mom and Dad dying? Laurel? Tommy? Thea as Speedy? Do the others start getting flashes?

Im thinking he starts getting flashes and then sees a news report about Green Diggle and starts looking for answers. I would be amused if Diggle and Felicity met because she (as CEO of her own company) hired him as a bodyguard.

I think I'm on the Laurel is more for Sara than Oliver than train. Sara being the one to bring up Laurel on The Flash or more importantly Oliver not mentioning her at all is interesting. The scene in the dressing room with Sara and Laurel from the promo shots. We already know that SA filmed with GG when CL and KC were filming the dinner party. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'm guessing Oliver and Laurel will have fairly superficial interactions (happy couple at the start, her confused when he starts ducking out) up until the goodbye at the end. Laurel and Sara will have the deeper moments. If that is the case, I will have to say something nice about the writers.

[bijoux]

No, I'm with you on Laurel being there for Sara. She's the one mentioning wanting her back on The Flash and I gather she tried something on LoT. So she's conjuring up Laurel being alive and getting what she wanted, i.e. Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

We've known that Ray, Sara and Thea were there all along.  It's always made sense to me that the dream is built from all of their wishes.  It's just set in a world where Oliver never went on the Gambit.  

Okay, let me rephrase then. Since it seems as if we're viewing a large chunk of this shared dream world through Oliver's POV, and since Laurel's presence has such a big impact on his dream world experience (just the entire scenario of Oliver marrying Laurel seems to be the event that brings the whole thing together), it would've made sense - to me - if Laurel had also been included on the list of people whose deaths Oliver wished he could undo. That Sara's desire to see Laurel alive manifests in ways that exclude her from spending time with Laurel in parts of this dream world and includes Laurel spending time with someone who didn't have the same wish to bring her back is weird to me (narratively speaking, since I understand that logic can't be applied to alien dream worlds). Since Barry presumably knew how Laurel had died, all the writers would've had to do is add one small line of Oliver saying something like, "Same thing goes for Laurel," or something, just to snap that little piece into place. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

It is weird. Maybe the Aliens saw twofer in Laurel with Oliver and Sara. Lol - I totally got an image of the Aliens eating popcorn watching this soap opera.

For me, the idea of Laurel being there more for Sara is less about the plot of it (Sara bringing the image to life) and more about the writers deciding to highlight that relationship for Laurel. Does that make sense?

[looptab]

Question: has the episode - or the script - been leaked? I was reading some people's comments on twitter and it looked like they already saw it or at least know what happens, so I'm wondering whether that's the case or it's just them speculating what they think it's likely to happen.

[Chaser]

If their intention is to imply Sara dreams this for Laurel, Laurel just got more pathetic. How many times did their girl time amount to Laurel crying over not becoming Mrs. Oliver Queen?

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

Question: has the episode - or the script - been leaked? I was reading some people's comments on twitter and it looked like they already saw it or at least know what happens, so I'm wondering whether that's the case or it's just them speculating what they think it's likely to happen.

I know screeners were sent out to reviewers.

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

Question: has the episode - or the script - been leaked? I was reading some people's comments on twitter and it looked like they already saw it or at least know what happens, so I'm wondering whether that's the case or it's just them speculating what they think it's likely to happen.

Maybe a screener leaked again or someone who watched a screener leaked info-what were they saying that suggested it leaked?

My petty self would inner cackle if the love letter leaked before it aired aka 4x05 haha

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

Question: has the episode - or the script - been leaked? I was reading some people's comments on twitter and it looked like they already saw it or at least know what happens, so I'm wondering whether that's the case or it's just them speculating what they think it's likely to happen.

I haven't heard about it leaking. It wouldn't surprise me if it's just speculation. Speculation is equaling fact a whole lot this season.

[looptab]

It wasn't from a journo - unless this person is one and I wasn't aware of it, haha. It was just the tone of the tweets made it sound like they do have knowledge about the episode - not in a "I know this means this because MG told me so and SYMBOLISM" kind of way, though. :)

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 minutes ago, looptab said:

Question: has the episode - or the script - been leaked? I was reading some people's comments on twitter and it looked like they already saw it or at least know what happens, so I'm wondering whether that's the case or it's just them speculating what they think it's likely to happen.

Well MG DMs with fans. I also wouldn't exclude journalists that saw the episode beforehand did the same. Anyway I'd keep in mind there are liars around..I learned it when I was lied to, LOL.

[Chaser]

1 minute ago, looptab said:

It wasn't from a journo - unless this person is one and I wasn't aware of it, haha. It was just the tone of the tweets made it sound like they do have knowledge about the episode - not in a "I know this means this because MG told me so and SYMBOLISM" kind of way, though. :)

What are they saying?

Lol - I wondered if you were talking about a BNF. Lol

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, looptab said:

It wasn't from a journo - unless this person is one and I wasn't aware of it, haha. It was just the tone of the tweets made it sound like they do have knowledge about the episode - not in a "I know this means this because MG told me so and SYMBOLISM" kind of way, though. :)

Could you post the link?

[Starfish35]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

If their intention is to imply Sara dreams this for Laurel, Laurel just got more pathetic. How many times did their girl time amount to Laurel crying over not becoming Mrs. Oliver Queen?

Far be it from me to defend Laurel, but this may just be a product of Sara's guilt over betraying her.  For Sara, a life where she wasn't the betraying sister, for Oliver, a life where he wasn't the cheating loser playboy.  Where Robert and Moira never got involved with Malcolm, and where the Undertaking never happened.  

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Far be it from me to defend Laurel, but this may just be a product of Sara's guilt over betraying her.  For Sara, a life where she wasn't the betraying sister, for Oliver, a life where he wasn't the cheating loser playboy.  Where Robert and Moira never got involved with Malcolm, and where the Undertaking never happened.  

I didn't think about it like that. You're right. That makes a lot of sense.

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I didn't think about it like that. You're right. That makes a lot of sense.

I didn't either, and it totally does. 

[looptab]

4 hours ago, Chaser said:

What are they saying?

Lol - I wondered if you were talking about a BNF. Lol

4 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Well MG DMs with fans. I also wouldn't exclude journalists that saw the episode beforehand did the same. Anyway I'd keep in mind there are liars around..I learned it when I was lied to, LOL.

No, I don't believe this person is a liar.

Edited November 30, 2016 by looptab

[Chaser]

The tweets were quite awhile ago. I think we would have heard more on Twitter verse if there was a leak. If she knows what happens, I'm guessing she knows a screener.

I think she actually posts here sometimes. I don't know under what name though.

[looptab]

9 minutes ago, Chaser said:

The tweets were quite awhile ago. I think we would have heard more on Twitter verse if there was a leak. If she knows what happens, I'm guessing she knows a screener.

I think she actually posts here sometimes. I don't know under what name though.

Makes sense. I was hoping it had been leaked - I just want to rip the band aid, haha.

[bijoux]

From the EW article in Spoilers Only!

Quote

It’s been five years since Oliver now didn’t get on the Queen’s Gambit, and he and Laurel are together,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim tells EW. “In fact, they’re about to be married. We basically pick up with them on the night before their wedding.

What? Is this not supposed to align with the present day? MG makes it sound like it's 2012, which was five years from Oliver getting, or not in this case, on the Gambit. Come on, Marc, you have ten fingers, use them to count!

[looptab]

I just rewatched the promo, and I just noticed Wild Dong wearing a red hoodie. Is that supposed to be their homage to Roy? 

[insomniadreams88]

Well, 10 years would just make Laurel really pathetic if it took that long for Oliver to propose and them to get married. Also, I guess that way, they don't have to even think about the Undertaking happening or not. 

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

I'm betting the shower scene goes like this: Oliver steps out of the shower making a comment about an upcoming wedding. He hands a towel to the occupant coming out behind them. GASP! It's Laurel! She's wearing a wedding ring! They're getting married?! Oliver leans to give her a kiss. GASP! Look at his back! No scars! This isn't real?! Scene.

I got questions. How quickly does he start seeing flashes to his real life? Is it only his vigilante life and Felicity he sees? Does he get flashes of his Mom and Dad dying? Laurel? Tommy? Thea as Speedy? Do the others start getting flashes?

The shower scene will probably go exactly like that, and they probably want viewers to be surprised, but guess what? No one will be because of the episode description, the promos, the interviews, etc.

And now I'm worried that the only way Tommy is in the episode (other than a mention here and there) is going to be with flashes of him dying. I still get upset seeing his death scene. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

Is that supposed to be their homage to Roy? 

I guess we'll know if there's some useless parkour involved!

[Sunshine]

I think this is what SA was talking about when he used the wording "retrospectively expected place".  If Oliver didn't get on the Gambit this might very well have been S1.

[Chaser]

Kind of wonder if the original plan was to have Oliver and Laurel get married in the 100th.

The night before their wedding? Huh. Not the timeline I had figured. I'm guessing it opens with them at the dinner party then.

I was thinking about what Ray would flashback to and my first thought was electrocuting Roy. Apparently I'm not over some things.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Chaser

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I think this is what SA was talking about when he used the wording "retrospectively expected place".  If Oliver didn't get on the Gambit this might very well have been S1.

Isn't that how he described finding BC in 510 or 511?

[Morrigan2575]

31 minutes ago, bijoux said:

From the EW article in Spoilers Only!

What? Is this not supposed to align with the present day? MG makes it sound like it's 2012, which was five years from Oliver getting, or not in this case, on the Gambit. Come on, Marc, you have ten fingers, use them to count!

Eh, these guys really aren't good with math

[Sunshine]

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Isn't that how he described finding BC in 510 or 511?

I don't know if it was specified or assumed.  I thought it was Laurel not BC, especially since I think she's coming back as BS not BC.  I have been known to be wrong plenty of times too.?

[Morrigan2575]

21 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Isn't that how he described finding BC in 510 or 511?

He was talking about LL/KC/BS in 510.

[looptab]

35 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I guess we'll know if there's some useless parkour involved!

If he starts useless parkouring, I'll riot! Get that hoodie off right now, Wild Dong!

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, Chaser said:

I'm betting the shower scene goes like this: Oliver steps out of the shower making a comment about an upcoming wedding. He hands a towel to the occupant coming out behind them. GASP! It's Laurel! She's wearing a wedding ring! They're getting married?! Oliver leans to give her a kiss. GASP! Look at his back! No scars! This isn't real?! Scene.

Oliver and Laurel showering together implies shower sex (because otherwise it's more efficient to shower alone)...  and now I have to go and bleach my brain.

[Cleanqueen]

13 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

 (no pun intended)

hahaha I like how Oliver sees the ring and his face is completely changing. That smile is slowly disappearing.

[Sakura12]

Of course one upside will be Oliver going WTF when he realizes marrying Laurel is fake. Because that's not his real world where he never really loved Laurel and they were long done when she died. 

[insomniadreams88]

Apparently Roy is in ep 100? 

http://screenertv.com/television/arrow-pays-tribute-laurel-lance-100th-episode-crossover/

I feel like I missed something? That was never announced, right? 

[HighHopes]

6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Apparently Roy is in ep 100? 

http://screenertv.com/television/arrow-pays-tribute-laurel-lance-100th-episode-crossover/

I feel like I missed something? That was never announced, right? 

I'm not sure if Colton will be in the episode or if Roy will just be mentioned. I think the same thing applies to Tommy/CD-- he didn't film but they may have him in a flashback or mentioned by another character somehow? (I think the current speculation on that is that someone will say that Tommy will be unable to make it to the rehearsal dinner because his job as a doctor in Chicago).  

[catrox14]

I'm trying reconcile Oliver's nope face when he sees the ring and Laurel's smug bitch face as she flaunts the ring at the guy she supposedly loves and who gave her the ring

To that end I've developed some wild ass head!canons based on that shower gif:

Alternate ideas:

-- Laurel and Oliver hook up but it's really Tommy to whom Laurel is engaged but Oliver doesn't know until she puts on her ring after they hook up. He sees it which is why he gets the nope face.

--Douchey!Ollie lives and he's trying to hook up with Laurel and she flashes her ring to remind Oliver she's engaged to Tommy and they are both being assholes to Tommy.

-- Laurel is engaged to Tommy who is Oliver's enemy and she's taunting Oliver with it after hooking up with him.

-- Laurel has trapped Oliver into marriage and she's flashing the ring to remind him of that fact.

-- The ring is Oliver's clue that isn't reality because it makes him think about Felicity and that he would never be engaged to Laurel EVER.

Just my WAGS.

Or poor Stephen just can't with KC no matter what. LOL

Edited November 30, 2016 by catrox14

[calliope1975]

I don't know. You can't really see SA's face in that scene with Laurel. I think he might be able to look like someone in love with her. You can do it, Stephen! I believe in you!!

[Chaser]

I noticed that SA maintained eye contact with Barry. Is it just woman he can't do that with?

I'm crossing my fingers that he had an Olicity flashback in that moment with Laurel.

[insomniadreams88]

So they're recycling an Olicity exchange for Oliver/Laurel. Seriously?! Maybe I should just prepare myself for Oliver to tell Laurel she's his "always" in this episode too.