Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Starfish35]

15 minutes ago, Proteus said:

It just doesn't make sense to me. Barry isn't crossing over to Arrow at the beginning of the season.

Do we know that?  I mean, have they said that?

[looptab]

I seem to remember Barry appearing in the premiere last  season, too, and no one knew about that.

He could very well be the boyfriend, it's not  like he has to appear the whole episode. A couple scenes top would do it?

[bijoux]

He wouldn't even need to appear. The audience knows Barry. All that's needed is Felicity hanging up her phone and Oliver asking if that was her boyfriend. Yeah, Barry needs me in CC. I won't be long. Don't kill the newbs while I'm gone.

[Guest]

Because flashpoint is a thing that's happening (DAMN YOU BARRY), we definitely can't rule out Barry as a bf option. I don't think we can rule out any of the new guys in the cast tbh.

And it could be that they're trying to keep it secret and we won't know until GG's name appears in the credits in 501. Even if he's not the new bf, I still think he'll be visiting to explain flashpoint to the audience. Unless these idiots have forgotten that not everyone watches Flash, which also wouldn't surprise me. 

[Password]

Barry is someone I wanted Felicity to date in season 3. So much better than Raybot. But now? No fam. It's too late for my enjoyment. 

I love Barry and Felicity's friendship, they're sickly sweet and I did kind of low key ship them. But them dating now?... No

[foreverevolving]

55 minutes ago, bijoux said:

This picture makes me a bit sad..

Because I love how MM looks! she looks like what most women look (ie she's not a size 0!) sadly I am sure that if she won't be written out by the end of the season we will see her shrinking down per mandated by the CW!

However, she will have to start working out more to make her believable as a super hero.. cause Caity Lotz set a very high standard in this universe for non super powered people.

Edited July 28, 2016 by foreverevolving

[bijoux]

The thing I actually notice is how much fitter EBR is. Not slimmer, fitter. It's the same thing I notice with WH. She's slighter than EBR but obviously not training. And this is nothing against either her or MM. It's just starting to cause a cognitive dissonance seeing computer- and lair-bound Felicity far fitter than any of the women going in the field.

[looptab]

8 minutes ago, bijoux said:

The thing I actually notice is how much fitter EBR is. Not slimmer, fitter. It's the same thing I notice with WH. She's slighter than EBR but obviously not training. And this is nothing against either her or MM. It's just starting to cause a cognitive dissonance seeing computer- and lair-bound Felicity far fitter than any of the women going in the field.

I think Willa trains too. I guess, because of their different body types, EBR looks more muscular.

Edited July 28, 2016 by looptab

[Mellowyellow]

It would actually be awesome if it were Barry! It won't be because these writers are just not that good! It'll be some random irritating dude!

That said, I now know how you all must have felt in season 3. I started watching LoT before I watched season 3. When I read on wiki that Ray was the love interest I was thrilled! I loved Ray on Legends and thought he was adorable so I had no issues with him as the love interest and LOVED season 3! 

[thegirlsleuth]

Between Flashpoint impacting the first episodes of Arrow and Supergirl flying into episode 8, I'm beginning to think that "grounded and street level" doesn't mean what Mericles and Guggenheim think it means. I know that they say they are returning to their roots, and I think they are going to try, but I'm beginning to wonder if that's possible with this shared universe.

[kismet]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Oh yeah. I already hate the fact that she's got a new boyfriend. She is single and entitled to move on, of course, but it still doesn't sit right with me. She didn't hang around. I still don't know why a new love interest is the first thing they give her. Character development would be first on my list, tbh. 

So whoever the boyfriend really is, I'm gonna hate it with the fire of a thousand suns. But Barry would still be my preference. I still can't believe I'm hoping Barry is her boyfriend when I look at GG and see a 15 year old. LOL.

I was upset about it. But after thinking about it and then reading some tumblr stuff I have made my peace with it. It is in her character that she would move forward so quickly with her life. Dating and getting a new boyfriend does make sense. She does tend to put stuff behind her quickly - she doesn't necessarily resolve or process it, but she certainly puts it in the rearview mirror quickly. She bottles up emotions - however that does not seem to stop her from actively trying to move forward. When Cooper died she up and changed her entire persona, and then moved across country.

I do think that this BF is her attempting to keep forward motion in her life. And despite all the bad things that has happened in her life, her striving for forward motion over all else is consistent. I do believe that it won't be a relationship were she falls in love. It will probably be a committed relationship, because she seems like the kind of woman that has relationships - instead of dating around. But its not a love match, it's a love the one your with match. I just hope they don't have that awkward "L"ove u / Jello scene again. I want FS to walk away from this relationship on her own accord because either OQ decides to fight for her or she decides she deserves more than a comfortable spare tire relationship. I don't want Ray 2.0, where she waffled, never voiced her opinion, but the writers dragged it out to make RP look sympathetic & so they could borrow his plane.

I agree with you that a BF would not be the first thing I would think to give her in s5. However, I would have never put FS & O/F in this position after BMD. In my world, they would have worked through it. There would have been a break, but it would not have happened they way it did. Then again - BMD never would have played out the way it did. The writers wrote themselves into this hole, there are only so many ways they can get out of it.

[bijoux]

What sort of bothers me here is that Felicity is (presumably) doing the same thing she did with Ray in S3 and she was there to see that didn't work. Which should have been a lesson. The one who's usually bad at having lessons stick is Oliver, not Felicity. Then there's the fact that she is trying to move on with someone new and he's got tunnel vision for his mission and the city.  Does that sound familiar to anyone? Because it sounds a lot like S3 to me. And I'm sorry, I've seen S3 already, I don't need it again. The way to make this work for me would be to make it about Felicity running away. Not just from her feelings about Oliver, but from dealing with Havenrock, her father's return, learning new things about her parents, the mess with the company, the rest of the team being gone. That, I feel, would be true to her character. Like @kismet said, she changed her persona and moved across country after Cooper. She also dug herself into a cubicle in the IT department. I have a feeling if we were to go further back, we would discover that MIT GothFelicity was nothing like Vegas high school Felicity. 

[kismet]

I personally have always believed that FS can be as stubborn and block headed as OQ at times. So it doesn't bother me as much that she did not learn her lesson with the RP relationship. I wonder if its because she never had the same issues with the relationship that the audience had with it. She seemed content to float along. If OQ had never gone to NP, she probably never would have broke up with RP, or at least it would have been awhile.

It also doesn't surprise me that we are getting s3 all over again. That is par for the course for these writers. Rinse & Repeat is their MO. Sometime I feel like I'm stuck on a skipping record when it comes to their storytelling.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think Madison looks fine to play a fighter..her character isn't supposed to be as skilled as Sara and it's not like Echo or the guy that plays Wild Dog are as ripped as SA or David but no one has a problem with that. It's true though that Emily has a very fit body that makes her appear the strongest between all the ladies and it's ironic Felicity is the only one that supposedly can't fight. They could have a scene or two with Felicity training since it's obvious the actress does LOL

About the boyfriend I'm still hoping he is a consequence of flashpoint..if he isn't it's season 3 all over again and I'm not interested in watching that. We can explain Felicity having a boyfriend from her POV if we want but I think the most accurate explanation is that they need to stall Oliver and Felicity and that kind of writing makes me lose interest in rooting for the couple to end up together.

[FurryFury]

I actually want to see a Felicity/Barry relationship. Always had a soft spot for this pairing, even if I really dislike Barry now. I also feel like they had good chemistry and would probably be terribly cute together. Considering they both are part of their shows OTPs, Flashpoint or another AU would be the only way for this to work.

[tv echo]

7 hours ago, bijoux said:

He wouldn't even need to appear. The audience knows Barry. All that's needed is Felicity hanging up her phone and Oliver asking if that was her boyfriend. Yeah, Barry needs me in CC. I won't be long. Don't kill the newbs while I'm gone.

MG told jbuffyangel that there's a moment in 501 that will be difficult for Olicity fans. So it's very possible that we learn about Felicity's boyfriend in 501 during a conversation with Oliver.  Then in Flash 302 we see her visiting Central City.

Also, in the Flashpoint-changed timeline, maybe Oliver & Felicity got together and broke up earlier than S4 and never lived together or got engaged. Maybe Barry tells her about the original timeline before he forgets everything, including her real history with Oliver - she's like the secret-keeper - and that's the knowledge she brings back with her to Star City. 

Maybe Oliver doesn't know about his son in the new timeline because Barry never told him, but Barry tells Felicity.

Who knows.

ETA: You know how we once talked about how the Flash repeats Arrow's story beats?  In a way, Barry's new timeline life living with his parents is like his Ivy Town - the idyllic but not really real reality. Also, apparently, one of Cisco's storylines next season is going to focus on his relationship with his brother.
 

Edited July 28, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

If it's Barry -- and yeah, I agree the spoilers so far kinda point to him -- I'm gonna be forever laughing that at least the writers are aware that they can't give Felicity a real relationship, however temporary. Oh no. Just give her the relationship that 100% of the audience will immediately know is there to display THE TIMELINE IS WARPED, and nothing else.

Also, this, from an article posted in Mind Your Surroundings --

Quote

With Barry having saved his Mom’s life, ripples are going to be felt throughout the whole universe. Barry isn’t close with the West family, Cisco is wealthy, and something messed with Diggle’s timeline over in Arrow.

This implies the completely different alternate reality from Flash 301 is still going on Arrow 501. Or is Barry gonna fix the timeline, but he'll still be distant from Joe and Iris, and Cisco is still gonna be wealthy?

[Sakura12]

I see no problem with Felicity wanting to stay fit but that in no way means she can go out and fight. Doing cardio and strength training does not equal fighting skills. 

I wouldn't mind Barry being the BF either even though I can't stand Barry. Although Flashpoint Barry should be different since he never lost his mommy. He would be a better option than someone in Arrow's cast, because most of their relationship would take place off screen. So it won't take up much of Arrow's time. 

[tv echo]

Quote

-- On Jul. 16, 2016, Carly Pope tweeted: "Just read #503. What a bunch of glorious little maniacs. This is going to be certifiably FUN." (CP tweet, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

So Carly Pope (Susan Williams) is going to be in the same episode as Cody Rhodes ("A Matter of Trust").  Now I'm curious.

504 is supposedly the big Diggle & Oliver episode and 505 is the big Olicity episode. So Susan Williams meets Oliver in 503. I wonder if they start dating or Oliver thinks about dating again in 504, and that leads up to Oliver & Felicity having a talk about their relationship in 505.
 

Edited July 28, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

Sitting on it for a while, I'm kind of perplexed as to why Curtis and Evelyn want to be physical fighters. From a character POV, not just because they're supposed to become Mr Terrific and Artemis. Being inspired by GA and wanting to fight for their city is all well and good, but these two are supposed to have other capabilities that could certainly contribute. Curtis in particular as a genius could help the cause more in the bunker than flailing around in the streets IMO. He's obviuosly beaten up, so if the point of training with Oliver were self-defense and not to be a liability if and when he needs to get in the field, I'd say great. It doesn't seem to be that. And I just went and watched a clip from 419 (I think I deserve brownie ponts for this) to confirm that Evelyn is supposed to be really smart. She's an academic decathlete. That sounds smart and something which could be channeled better than fighting street thugs.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, kismet said:

I was upset about it. But after thinking about it and then reading some tumblr stuff I have made my peace with it. It is in her character that she would move forward so quickly with her life. Dating and getting a new boyfriend does make sense. She does tend to put stuff behind her quickly - she doesn't necessarily resolve or process it, but she certainly puts it in the rearview mirror quickly. She bottles up emotions - however that does not seem to stop her from actively trying to move forward. When Cooper died she up and changed her entire persona, and then moved across country.

I do think that this BF is her attempting to keep forward motion in her life. And despite all the bad things that has happened in her life, her striving for forward motion over all else is consistent. I do believe that it won't be a relationship were she falls in love. It will probably be a committed relationship, because she seems like the kind of woman that has relationships - instead of dating around. But its not a love match, it's a love the one your with match. I just hope they don't have that awkward "L"ove u / Jello scene again. I want FS to walk away from this relationship on her own accord because either OQ decides to fight for her or she decides she deserves more than a comfortable spare tire relationship. I don't want Ray 2.0, where she waffled, never voiced her opinion, but the writers dragged it out to make RP look sympathetic & so they could borrow his plane.

I agree with you that a BF would not be the first thing I would think to give her in s5. However, I would have never put FS & O/F in this position after BMD. In my world, they would have worked through it. There would have been a break, but it would not have happened they way it did. Then again - BMD never would have played out the way it did. The writers wrote themselves into this hole, there are only so many ways they can get out of it.

Felicity was about to marry the love of her life and then a few months later she's moving on. It looks kinda cold from where I'm standing. I don't believe she's emotionally moved on at all and I do agree that it's in her character to bottle up those emotions and attempt to move forward quickly. I just don't believe a new boyfriend is the best way to highlight that. She could have thrown herself into her work  and maybe when someone asked her if she thought about dating, she could just dismiss it and say something like "I don't have time for that" or whatever. I'd like to see on screen that she's bottling up those emotions rather than just trying to guess what her behavior means. 

I mean, I agree with a lot of points you've made and can reason them all myself but will that come across on screen? Will it be clear to the audience? Or will it just look like she never really loved Oliver that much and is all totally fine with moving on? I hope it's the former but with this show I worry that it will be the latter.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if this new boyfriend is a way to show some character growth in Felicity - that she might acknowledge that she's doing it for the wrong reasons - then okay. That's fine. I just don't think it is. Right now it's just opening a door to Oliver dating someone else and O/F being done for a while. (I don't think they're over for good at all but there's no doubt they're shelving them for a time.)

I guess we'll see. I can hope for the best but they haven't done right by Felicity in a while now.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Guest

[tv echo]

I think that they needed to show some changes in the Arrowverse due to Flashpoint without completely screwing up Arrow's past four seasons and Arrow viewers who don't watch Flash.  So they threw in stuff like Felicity dating Barry, which can be easily erased and which also gives a little something to Barricity fans, and Diggle's family probably changing to include John "Connor Hawke" Diggle, Jr. They have no problem throwing Felicity under the bus.

As for Curtis and Evelyn wanting to become physical fighters - it sounds like there's a lot of crime on the streets of Star City and not enough police out there fighting it due to corruption in the SCPD.  So a lot of new vigilantes are copying GA and fighting the criminals. Curtis and Evelyn are just two more of them, who are fighting with heart and little training.

From the Showbiz Junkies interview with EBR:

Quote

-- On Curtis becoming Mr. Terrific, EBR: "This idea of him becoming Mr. Terrific is awesome. He is going to get the suit. Um, but it's sorta him sorta balancing out. finding out what he can do, because you just don't become - you don't go like from 0 to 100 to be a superhero. You need training... He might have the drive and the goal to go towards, but you have to have the technical training. It can't all just be heart, because then you will end up dying."

That last line reminded me of KC's interviews where she was always talking about how Laurel fights with her heart or from the heart. ("Obviously last season, she was a fighter, she's always been a fighter, but it was a lot more heart. This season, I think it's not just heart; she actually has been training and working on that aspect of herself, the going out at night.")

The new vigilantes are like S3 Laurel - fighting with heart but not much training. 

Remember how, in past cast interviews, Arrow actors would sometimes answer questions by using what turned out to be lines or phrases from upcoming episodes? So I wonder if EBR was repeating a line that Oliver tells Curtis or the newbies in 501 or 502.  If so, it makes sense on its own.  But in context, it doesn't make sense because Laurel had both heart and training in S4 (presumably) and ended up dying anyway. Unless it's a character point for Oliver - that he maybe feels guilty for Laurel's death because he didn't train her or train her enough before accepting her onto the team.

Edited July 28, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

17 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is if this new boyfriend is a way to show some character growth in Felicity - that she might acknowledge that she's doing it for the wrong reasons - then okay. That's fine. I just don't think it is. Right now it's just opening a door to Oliver dating someone else and O/F being done for a while. (I don't think they're over for good at all but there's no doubt they're shelving them for a time.)

Aside from them being broken up and the casting of Carly Pope who is SA's age have we had any indication that Oliver will be getting a love interest? Because SA's beating that Star City or bust drum pretty loudly.

[Guest]

Just now, bijoux said:

Aside from them being broken up and the casting of Carly Pope who is SA's age have we had any indication that Oliver will be getting a love interest? Because SA's beating that Star City or bust drum pretty loudly.

No, none. That's purely a guess on my part! 

[tangerine95]

Yeah I'd probably be fine with Felicity dating someone and it being non flashpoint related if they used it as a way to explore her character and her tendency to run and try to leave stuff behind before she's actually over it. Like if they gave her scenes where she voices that and learns from it the bf wouldn't be a bad thing. But I don't think they would, I mean they never did with Ray.

Right now tho I do think the boyfriend is Barry and it's a flashpoint related thing. I just don't know if they change or erase some of the olicity relationship until the timeline is fixed. 

[Password]

There are 2 things I look forward to in the premiere: Bratva flashbacks and how much Barry messed up the timeline. I suppose "look forward to" is completely the wrong wording for Barry's mess, but I'll leave it at that. Even though over and above I care about Felicity's POV and dealing with Havenrock. 

[apinknightmare]

If I'm going to have to sit through romantic drama (which I generally like, but hate on this show because they cannot do it well to save their lives), then I'd prefer it to be for character reasons. But the people who run and write this show don't seem to care for much other than plotty plot movement and can undo character development on a dime, so I wouldn't be surprised (if the boyfriend isn't Flashpoint related) if he's just around to a) be an obvious reason why O/F didn't get back together over the hiatus, because it seemed as if they might be heading that way at the end of S4, and/or b) a quick way to introduce another character into the fold to get another storyline moving (like he turns out to be a baddie, or someone from Havenrock, or whatever), and will be over and done once that thing/those things are accomplished.

[smoaksmichaelas]

Lol I just find it funny that whenever things go wrong with Olicity it's Felicity's love that is questioned & scrutinized. The fandom (Olicity) can be really harsh on her even when it's Oliver that's being cold. I think she deserves better & right now that's not Oliver. What he did wasn't some small thing that can be overlooked. EBR said it will take time for Felicity to answer questions left by the breakup. I think she will tell him to move on in episode 5.

Anyway I'm pretty sure S5 will be a reverse of S3 for Olicity. I think Oliver is the one that will be dating hence the reason for the bf. I would like to see them fight for each other but whatever. Even if Barry is the boyfriend I still think she will tell Oliver to move on. I don't think she's ready.

[tv echo]

Knowing how MG likes to use Billy Joel song titles, note that "A Matter of Trust" (503 title) is also the title of a Billy Joel song.  The song has been described as follows (go to link for lyrics):

Quote

The song emphasizes the importance of trust in a relationship, and that having trust is essential to a long-lasting relationship even more so than passion or control.   This is a song about real love, and what it takes to have a strong loving relationship -- trust.  This is not simply trust in the sense of sexual fidelity, but trust that your partner has your interests at heart, that you are a couple together, a single unit, rather than two people living under the same roof. Thematically, this could have been a companion song or follow-up to 52nd Street's "Honesty" or to "An Innocent Man" from Billy's album of the same title.

http://www.onefinalserenade.com/a-matter-of-trust.html

The song has also been described as follows:

Quote

In this song, Joel sings about what it takes to make a relationship last. Once the wave of passion subsides, it becomes a partnership where the couple has to trust each other and be there in times of need. Joel married model Christie Brinkley the year before this was released.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=10543

So I'm curious as to what the story is for 503 (which debuts Carly Pope's character and guest stars Cody Rhodes), and whether the Billy Joel song title is just a coincidence or has any relevance whatsoever.

Edited July 28, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

Since she already basicaly says “you keep waiting for things to go back to the way they were. They’re not.”. I dont think episode 5 will be her telling him to move on.

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Knowing how MG likes to use Billy Joel song titles, note that "A Matter of Trust" (503 title) is also the title of a Billy Joel song.  The song has been described as follows (go to link for lyrics):

http://www.onefinalserenade.com/a-matter-of-trust.html

The song has also been described as follows:

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=10543

So I'm curious as to what the story is for 503 (which debuts Carly Pope's character and guest stars Cody Rhodes), and whether the Billy Joel song title is just a coincidence or has any relevance whatsoever.

This episode has a big Oliver/Dig scene so the title makes sense to me.

[smoaksmichaelas]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Since she already basicaly says “you keep waiting for things to go back to the way they were. They’re not.”. I dont think episode 5 will be her telling him to move on.

Regardless of whether she tells him or not, I think he will be. I don't think he will fight for her at all because in the time they've been together I've never known that to be true.

[Velocity23]

Well we only have what Marc said so far. And according to that he is not giving up.

[Midnight Lullaby]

5 minutes ago, smoaksmichaelas said:

Regardless of whether she tells him or not, I think he will be. I don't think he will fight for her at all because in the time they've been together I've never known that to be true.

I think this is likely to happen even if it wouldn't be my preference. No matter how much Oliver loves Felicity he is always pretty passive and suffers in silent rather than fight for her. The only time he tried to do something was the fake wedding during episode 16 and after that he went back to keeping his distance. I don't know if it can be explained with him thinking he doesn't deserve her but that's the vibe I get.

[HighHopes]

We have known since the third season that Felicity wants to share her life someone. Felicity was ready to spend the rest of her life with Oliver, she believed they were in a mature trusting relationship. Then she ends up in the hospital and he doesn't visit, and okay she forgives him for that. Then she finds out that he has a kid that he not only did not tell her about, but that he was also visiting behind her back. That is a huge blow. Especially when she finds out that three other people knew about this kid. It's hard to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't trust you, and I don't blame her for trying to move on from that relationship.

Sometimes we don't end up with the person we thought we would spend the rest of our lives with. My sister recently ended her eleven year relationship, and now that's over and she's moving on. It happens. (And they broke up late March/Early April and now she's starting to get back into dating. If she can do it, I have no issues with Felicity doing something similar). 

[Midnight Lullaby]

What I find weird about her moving on is that I got the feeling in the few moments they shared after the fake wedding that she was giving hints she didn't really want to move on for good, forget about him and start over with someone else. She told Oliver she didn't mean what she said about thinking he can't change, she hugged him when he, Dig and Lance went back to the lair, she babbled about their loft/her loft..

I wouldn't "hate" her or Oliver for moving on, but if they did move on for real and committed to someone else in a meaningful way then I don't know if I wanted them to get back together at the end. Throwing temporary love interests at the couple gets old at some point and it gets old fast when the writers do a horrible job at writing that type of storyline.

[Carrie Ann]

18 minutes ago, smoaksmichaelas said:

I don't think he will fight for her at all because in the time they've been together I've never known that to be true.

The only way I think Oliver could/should start "fighting" for Felicity again is if she gives him some indication that she wants him to. She shut him down with finality in 416 and didn't reopen that door, and has now apparently started dating someone else. (Whether FP-related or no, I don't think that will be erased by the end of the first ep.) So she would have to 1) break up with this dude, and 2) make Oliver believe, in some way, that she could forgive him and let him back in sometime. (And also, realistically for this show, fighting for her would equal maybe one-two episodes where we see...something similar to 416, I guess? Not sure what anyone else is envisioning for that.)

IMO, if one of them had to date someone else first, Felicity is the logical person to do that because of her tendencies to shut things out and try to move on. I don't feel bothered about this on a character level, and I won't if Oliver dates someone several episodes down the line either. We still have yet to hear anything about a love interest for him, but I feel quite confident that should the writers take that route, that move, and Oliver, will receive their fair share of criticism. I don't want to watch it, on either part, but it's not a dealbreaker for me.

[kismet]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Felicity was about to marry the love of her life and then a few months later she's moving on. It looks kinda cold from where I'm standing. I don't believe she's emotionally moved on at all and I do agree that it's in her character to bottle up those emotions and attempt to move forward quickly. I just don't believe a new boyfriend is the best way to highlight that. She could have thrown herself into her work  and maybe when someone asked her if she thought about dating, she could just dismiss it and say something like "I don't have time for that" or whatever. I'd like to see on screen that she's bottling up those emotions rather than just trying to guess what her behavior means. 

I mean, I agree with a lot of points you've made and can reason them all myself but will that come across on screen? Will it be clear to the audience? Or will it just look like she never really loved Oliver that much and is all totally fine with moving on? I hope it's the former but with this show I worry that it will be the latter.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if this new boyfriend is a way to show some character growth in Felicity - that she might acknowledge that she's doing it for the wrong reasons - then okay. That's fine. I just don't think it is. Right now it's just opening a door to Oliver dating someone else and O/F being done for a while. (I don't think they're over for good at all but there's no doubt they're shelving them for a time.)

I guess we'll see. I can hope for the best but they haven't done right by Felicity in a while now.

Oh yes... I'm with you on the bolded part. And with these writers and how they have treated character development & FS ~ it is a very valid concern. I am only trying to take reason and approach the situation from a rationale place. I also agree, they have not done right be FS for awhile now. And I'll be so bold to say none of her romantic relationships have been handled well with the exception of Cooper. Even in its glory days, I think it was more SA & EBR that made O/F the amazing couple that so many people adore. If left up to the writers, I'm not sure how much I really like O/F. And there were definitely more times when they sacrificed her character for a plot point or another character.

My personal opinion is giving FS a BF is a bad idea. My professional opinion as a TV audience member/fan is its a bad idea. My trained opinion from a psych/health perspective, getting a BF so soon is a bad idea, but a common one. Nothing about FS having a BF seems like a good idea to me. I can rationalize it, but that doesn't mean its a good idea. It's most definitely a ship stall. And its TV trope at its best.

Also I think a major point to mention is that if the BF is only present in the FP, then everything we are discussing about the BF & character development is completely null & void. Because FS never willingly accepted being part of the FP and so this new BF is not a choice but rather a result of another person's actions. This FS we meet in 501, may not even be FS, she's an AuFS. So all this worrying or talking about her BF is mute, because it will all be reset when the writers reset the timeline. At that point, it will be interesting to see just how much AuFS is responsible for resetting because then we can actually see her choices. Or at least hope the writers tell us why she does what she does. And at that point, I hope they choose to not ruin her character.

Honestly, I can rationalize FS's new BF. But its hard to worry about it too much because we have such little details. If 501/502 are all part of the FP and 503 is back to Arrow time, then FS BF may be nothing. And then really we only have 2 episodes before we get to that 505 special episode for Olicity which could be a reconciliation. Even if they stretch the FP out to the crossover, we'll have seen AuFS with another guy, but can we hold her actions and the writing against her? She was not herself, so any damage done to her character for me will be water under the bridge.

[way2interested]

At least it would seem that the show wouldn't be taking these love interests too seriously either, since no character has been promoted being a love interest. Heck, if it wasn't for SA (who subsequently helped start that whole Felicity's bf "rumor" that was brought up from Tvline), we wouldn't have known about this at all. Granted, they may have wanted it to be a surprise, but it still means to me that they didn't want anyone to know/think about them being with other people for some reason, be a surprise for the sake of surprise or surprise for the sake of Flashpoint or whatever reason.

[kismet]

Technically, the City got a promotion to Love Interest this season. And if that doesn't tell you that romance is not a strength of these writers, I don't know what will.

[DrSpaceman10]

40 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Well we only have what Marc said so far. And according to that he is not giving up.

Marc never said that, as far as I know. JBuffyAngel asked him leading questions and he replied with yes/no answers, which makes me question how accurate it is.

From JBuffyAngel's tumblr: Link

Quote

I asked him if Oliver was giving up and he said, “No! No no non no!”

[kismet]

As much as I want to see OQ fighting for FS, I also want to see him respecting her choices. She made it pretty clear that she did not want a romantic relationship at this point. And he violated some major trust points, so her hesitation to rekindle is pretty expected and definitely valid. I want him to show that he is learning to be a better interpersonal partner. That he is learning to let people in, when his gut reaction is to shut people out or make illogical personal decisions. I can't remember where I read it but somebody said that although O/F had a solid foundation of friendship & work partnership, they never really gave themselves time to develop a romantic relationship foundation. In s4, they both made some mistakes with communication and their romantic partnership. If they had had a more solid relationship foundation, I don't think the BMD would have led to a complete break-up.

I think if OQ is too gung ho about trying to get FS back against her wishes, I will not like that. He can go out of his way to be an amazing partner on all levels. His actions can show that he is becoming a changed man. But in order for me to actively wish for OQ to "FIGHT" for FS, FS has to be the one to open that door and say she wants to get back in. I don't want OQ being passive and fatalistic like he was in s3 just accepting the fact that FS has moved of. But I also don't want him to completely disregard her feelings, opinions and thoughts on reconciliation. It's not a good way to start a relationship, if you just steamroll over a person's valid position, because how you feel is more important. There is a fine line and a happy medium that I hope the writers find. It's really on both of them to reconcile the relationship.

[calliope1975]

11 hours ago, Password said:

Barry is someone I wanted Felicity to date in season 3. So much better than Raybot. But now? No fam. It's too late for my enjoyment. 

I love Barry and Felicity's friendship, they're sickly sweet and I did kind of low key ship them. But them dating now?... No

 

4 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

If it's Barry -- and yeah, I agree the spoilers so far kinda point to him -- I'm gonna be forever laughing that at least the writers are aware that they can't give Felicity a real relationship, however temporary. Oh no. Just give her the relationship that 100% of the audience will immediately know is there to display THE TIMELINE IS WARPED, and nothing else.

Barry's the only person I would be okay with Felicity dating. 1 - It's totally temporary because we all know he's going to eventually fix Flashpoint (or muck up the timeline even more knowing this dumbass.) 2 - If it's Barry, I don't have to sit through a regular being one of Felicity's ex that is then going to turn out to be yet another hero or a villain. 

Having written all that, if I'm wrong and it's not Barry, and I have to experience more of S3's terribadness, there better be something fucking spectacular happening in other parts of the show because I can't do it again. My spirit is weak. 

[Morrigan2575]

I came across a quote from GG the other day but now i can't seem to find it.

In the quote GG mentioned that Barry will start to forget the other timeline.  Does anyone remember the quote and if GG meant he comes back to Prime Flarrowverse and forgets the Flashpoint Timeline or is he still in Flashpoint and starts to forget the Real/Prime timeline? 

I know in the sizzle reel Barry clearly remembers the "real" timeline. At First glance i thought it meant that he starts to forget the Flashpoint Timeline after he retuns to Real World.  However,  if The Flashpoint AU exisist for a large part of S3/5 (not so much LoT S2) then maybe he starts to forget the real world?

I don't know, it seems lile Flash will have the most direct impact of Flashpoint, while Arrow will only see minor changes

[Midnight Lullaby]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I came across a quote from GG the other day but now i can't seem to find it.

In the quote GG mentioned that Barry will start to forget the other timeline.  Does anyone remember the quote and if GG meant he comes back to Prime Flarrowverse and forgets the Flashpoint Timeline or is he still in Flashpoint and starts to forget the Real/Prime timeline? 

I know in the sizzle reel Barry clearly remembers the "real" timeline. At First glance i thought it meant that he starts to forget the Flashpoint Timeline after he retuns to Real World.  However,  if The Flashpoint AU exisist for a large part of S3/5 (not so much LoT S2) then maybe he starts to forget the real world?

I don't know, it seems lile Flash will have the most direct impact of Flashpoint, while Arrow will only see minor changes

Maybe you are referring to this article? http://comicbook.com/2016/07/27/grant-gustin-on-the-flashs-relationships-with-iris-joe-and-wally/

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm starting to believe that Barry will be Felicity's boyfriend because of Flashpoint. That the Felicity/Barry scene they showed in the trailer is of them kissing on the train is a clue. That's the point when they basically agreed they were perfect for each other but were totally in love with other people. What if that convo never happened, instead they agreed to give it a go? So Barry & Felicity could have been in a relationship for the past two years, meaning no Nanda Parbat or Ivy Town for Oliver & Felicity. Oliver could still be in love with Felicity but is just pining for her quietly. This is the new normal until Supergirl crosses over to tell Barry on The Flash that even her universe is now being affected by the fuckery he began and that's the crossover story basically: everybody trying to fix Flashpoint. (It is a bit weird though that MG kept saying LOT is not going to be affected by Flashpoint, and yet that's going to be where the climax of the crossovers is going to be. Unless, them being time travelers is what helps fix Flashpoint). Now, I'm still kinda ruminating on the "why" of all this. Why the reboot, if this is what they're actually doing. I'd be OK if they pretend that horrible woman and her always-coloring kid disappear from all the timelines.

[apinknightmare]

Quote

And I think it's when he starts to realize that's happening, that's when he starts to realize how selfish this kind of was, how messed up it was. It's affecting not only him and his family's life, but everybody connected to him and -- who knows? -- countless people across the globe potentially.

So the incredibly indecisive Barry Allen is going to try to fix things again once he realizes how much this has affected everyone's life.

He is truly an awful moron. 

Edited July 28, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I came across a quote from GG the other day but now i can't seem to find it.

In the quote GG mentioned that Barry will start to forget the other timeline.  Does anyone remember the quote and if GG meant he comes back to Prime Flarrowverse and forgets the Flashpoint Timeline or is he still in Flashpoint and starts to forget the Real/Prime timeline? 

It was about him remembering the real timeline as I recall.

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm starting to believe that Barry will be Felicity's boyfriend because of Flashpoint. That the Felicity/Barry scene they showed in the trailer is of them kissing on the train is a clue. That's the point when they basically agreed they were perfect for each other but were totally in love with other people. What if that convo never happened, instead they agreed to give it a go? So Barry & Felicity could have been in a relationship for the past two years, meaning no Nanda Parbat or Ivy Town for Oliver & Felicity. Oliver could still be in love with Felicity but is just pining for her quietly. This is the new normal until Supergirl crosses over to tell Barry on The Flash that even her universe is now being affected by the fuckery he began and that's the crossover story basically: everybody trying to fix Flashpoint. (It is a bit weird though that MG kept saying LOT is not going to be affected by Flashpoint, and yet that's going to be where the climax of the crossovers is going to be. Unless, them being time travelers is what helps fix Flashpoint). Now, I'm still kinda ruminating on the "why" of all this. Why the reboot, if this is what they're actually doing. I'd be OK if they pretend that horrible woman and her always-coloring kid disappear from all the timelines.

The language about Oliver and Felicity at SDCC certainly sounded like they were broken up, not never in a relationship.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Also, I just read the Comic Book Movie report about the crossover and Supergirl, so my spec about Supergirl coming in to help fix Barry's fuckery has been decimated :P

[bijoux]

All I've got on that is that I'm happy DR will get his wish of having Dig react to Supergirl.