Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Genki]

Quote

As TVLine first reported, Chase is described as an “irrepressibly charming” contemporary of Oliver’s and “a man on a mission” — out as he is to avenge a tragic, violent loss from his own, years-ago past. He is someone who could “just as easily shake your hand as your best friend or break your neck as your worst enemy — and you never know which one is coming. Either way, he’s more than capable of having a good time as he does it.”

In the DC Comics canon, Chase was a New York City D.A. whose family was killed by mobsters, prompting him to seek justice in his own way under the name Vigilante. He also had strong ties to Deathstroke, who is portrayed by Manu Bennett on the CW series.

If they tie Adrian Chase's backstory to something in Oliver's past, like crimes he committed whilst in the Bratva, coming back to haunt him in the present, (such as it motivating Chase to be a DA and Vigilante) then this is storyline which could not be done with Laurel in as the DA. 

Sure they could have done more on her conflict between being the law and acting outside the law, but with the new character they can do that and possibly bring the story back to Oliver in a new way, [Bonus: Storylines of Oliver hiding his secret identity and also potentially fix the issue with the flashbacks-pure speculation].

For me, this new character doesn't replace Laurel, he rather brings a possibility of more interesting Storylines, to me, than Laurel ever did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Never seen him in anything, so while I hope he can act and fits in well with the cast, I'm happy that he is pretty handsome, IMO. [/shallow]

Hopefully so many casting announcement means there will be a few more villains of the week type story which I've missed the last couple of seasons.

[bijoux]

14 minutes ago, Genki said:

Hopefully so many casting announcement means there will be a few more villains of the week type story which I've missed the last couple of seasons.

I missed Oliver talking to the people he was fighting so much this season. To go back to halcyon days of, "What color are your shoes?" Those little things were so much fun.

[quarks]

12 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

 

*Did MG or any of the other EPs mention that writing the legal stuff was a slog and that's why Laurel got sidelined as a character? Because I kind of recall something about them not liking the courtroom scenes, but we saw plenty of non-courtroom Laurel stuff throughout the series, so that doesn't seem right. Did they mention that's why we didn't see much of her actually in court, maybe?

My answer got long, and since it only addressed past seasons, I put it in the Behind the Scenes thread.

[apinknightmare]

15 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Question:

I've been looking at some commentary on this casting news, and there are a lot of people angry about the comparisons to Laurel. I've seen a few things mentioned over and over that I don't recall ever hearing from the EPs, and I was wondering if anyone can corroborate, or has any sources handy? I haven't had much luck googling. 

* Did MG or WM ever say that they ran out of story for Laurel? I remember them saying something similar about Moira, and KC saying something kind of like that (or maybe it was that she felt they'd told Laurel's story? I can't remember) - but I don't recall ever seeing anything like that mentioned by one of the EPs. 

*Did MG or any of the other EPs mention that writing the legal stuff was a slog and that's why Laurel got sidelined as a character? Because I kind of recall something about them not liking the courtroom scenes, but we saw plenty of non-courtroom Laurel stuff throughout the series, so that doesn't seem right. Did they mention that's why we didn't see much of her actually in court, maybe?

Just to close the loop here, since I put the questions out there, this is the article it seems people were referring to, where MG talks about the courtroom scenes falling flat (and being expensive to film) and Laurel's story reaching "a plateau."

[lemotomato]

I don't think that making the new guy a DA and vigilante invalidates MG's reasons for killing off LL. Courtroom scenes falling flat and being expensive to film wouldn't matter for a DA because don't they usually work from the office, not actually handling cases? As for lawyer-turned-vigilante, well, that was rushed and not convincingly developed for LL because for whatever reason, that *had* to happen by the end of season 3, so I don't fault the writers for wanting to revisit that and do it properly.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm missing something.  Why do people keep saying "James" is a Vigilante?   I know the comicbook version was a vigilante before going batshit insane.  I also know that TV Line used the character's comic alias as a pun in their Article Title but, I haven't actually seen anything on the character description that says he's going to be dressing up in a costume and running around at night playing Vigilante.  

What am I missing?

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm missing something.  Why do people keep saying "James" is a Vigilante?   I know the comicbook version was a vigilante before going batshit insane.  I also know that TV Line used the character's comic alias as a pun in their Article Title but, I haven't actually seen anything on the character description that says he's going to be dressing up in a costume and running around at night playing Vigilante.  

What am I missing?

You aren't missing anything. Him being a vigilante seems to be an assumption at this point.

[dtissagirl]

I think his superhero name in the comics being Vigilante is confusing the hell out of people.

Edited June 17, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

Ah, thanks, I was getting really confused. 

[writersblock51]

I'm actually hoping that Oliver's inevitable (and hopefully well done) Bravta flashbacks have something to do with what's happening in present day Star City.  If the casting call details hadn't listed 'mob connected death' then a link to Adrian would have been a nice surprise.  Now I think it's a safe assumption, much like he's going to be Vigilante or similar. 

I like spoilers but I wish there were some details left out.  What follows is the awkward "epic, game changing, never done before" hyperbole from the EPs to explain why the audience will be blown away shocked BUT NOT REALLY with how clever the show has laid things out.

UGH.

Count me among those dismayed at the heavy dose of new males on the show - I suspect that a female will be added soon.  I've never expected gender balance on this show but the ratio of male to female is disturbing as we head into Season 5.  I think it's the most disproportionate since the series began.  Why is that?

I'd LOVE to have the S5 Big Bad be female - the show has had some fierce females in the past and I think could do well in the next season.  Fingers crossed.

I've been away from the Arrow forum for many months.  S4 pretty much burned me out.  I'm looking for news that will get me excited about the new season.  Frankly, I'm disappointed.  Not quite apathetic but almost there.

As much as I've been looking forward to learning and seeing Oliver earn his Bratva Captain status, I'm wary about how it will play out.  Perhaps there will be a compelling Bad Person in Russia as well?  I'd like to see Anatoly again.  I'm assuming he'll make a few appearances.

[Starfish35]

Quote

Count me among those dismayed at the heavy dose of new males on the show - I suspect that a female will be added soon.  I've never expected gender balance on this show but the ratio of male to female is disturbing as we head into Season 5.  I think it's the most disproportionate since the series began.  Why is that?

Yes, I just noted in the Mind Your Surroundings thread that we've gone from four female regulars (and Sara may as well have been a fifth) in season two to only two now.  Not that I regret losing Laurel, but it's a little frustrating to see the trend.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Starfish35
Added quote I was responding to

[way2interested]

It's kind of a weird subject for me concerning the fact that there's only two female regulars now. I'm bummed, but I'm not as upset with it on Arrow as I am with say Flash or LoT. On one hand, it really is a bummer and disappointing towards the upcoming story that there's only two females who barely interact one-on-one with each other in the first place. On the other hand, I kind of feel like the show is stuck in a corner concerning this problem this year (both by circumstance and by its own mistakes).

It was a bummer to kill off a female regular from the show during the strange trend that happened this year, but ultimately they cut off an arguably weaker aspect of the show that happened to include a female character. It just also happened to cut off some of the female interactions of the show, so it was an unfortunate consequence to a purposeful decision. However, these are the same people who have never really had Thea and Felicity directly interact for some unknown reason, so that one's definitely on them. Promoting other female characters is out of their hands since it seems that CR and AMA don't have the schedule to be a regular while KL has a new show and RF is in the Ghost in the Shell movie, so that seems like it's just unfortunate luck that they have no control over (but I'm not really sure what the circumstances are there). 

The new characters being all male so far is kind of in the same predicament for me as well. Personally, I kind of feel like maybe Wild Dog was actually supposed to be Baby Canary, but because of her lukewarm/apathetic reception at best they decided to scrap her for a new character instead. Plus, they might have wanted to go with a male just to avoid the ideas of replacing Laurel (since it seems like the idea of dishonoring Laurel was one of the reasons why Oliver and Felicity's relationship was sidelined towards the end of the season), even though to an extent it might look like they are temporarily replacing a Roy figure.

For Chase, I feel like they are just trying to avoid repeating some of the beats they had with Isabel from s2 before she became evil (along with trying to avoid too direct comparisons with this character and Laurel) by making him a male contemporary/frenemy of Oliver instead. Granted, they could have just had similar character traits and been different female characters, but I would honestly rather this type of series regular be a man purely to avoid the media(which actually angers me way more than the fan reactions)/hater/fan reactions to a female character possibly being Oliver's new love interest. Plus, Oliver hasn't really had a character interaction like this in a while, considering the last male "contemporary" for him (barring Diggle who is his friend, Lance who was more of a parental figure, and Curtis who was more support for Felicity and then last-minute for Oliver) was Ray who was really acting as a man on his own show Felicity's temporary love interest.

That leaves flashback guy (which I'm also meh about since it's just the flashbacks and we have no idea how those are going to to) and the big bad. The big bad probably being a guy is an actual disappointment to me because it was a clear chance to do something different and interesting (something that the writers have said that they always want to do) while still trying to maintain a better male to female ratio after killing off one of their female regulars. No idea why they went with a guy instead, but we can see how it goes for s5. Arguably any of these new characters could have been women instead, but the big bad is the only one where I can't really find an argument for it unless MG, WM, and GB were dead-set on having a macho drug lord being the big bad.   

That being said, could they have just written different characters overall who would have been female instead of male? Maybe, but since I'm not in the room and the episodes haven't aired yet, I have no idea what they could have/should have done as of yet. I at least hope this means that Thea and Felicity will interact a bit more, and I'm wondering what Brian was hinting at with his tweet. I'm just meh about it, but I think it's just because I know that Felicity is still going be her own character (despite unfulfilled plot lines) and that Thea will still be pretty relevant to the overall story (despite being more of a plot device), and they are both allowed to have plots and roles at the same time in an episode (402 that was just re-aired proved that), which is more than what the Flash can do.  

Long post that idk how to end blaaaa, I'm going to bed.

[calliope1975]

I'm just watching the Tony Awards and this new guy Josh Segarra just performed, and I approve of this new pretty casting.  

That said, the lack of women is annoying. I'd love AMA to be a regular but it appears she is not available. I do hope whatever women they do cast are better than #Poppy. She tried, but that role and actor just did not work for me. 

[kismet]

I'm disappointed that there are not more new females. However, I can see them trying to avoid the comparisons of just replacing LL/BC. Look at how many posts on these threads turned back around to discussing LL when it was revealed that one of the new characters was a lawyer and a potential vigilante. And #Poppy is a perfect example of just putting a female on the screen does not really make waves or help promote women. Poppy had to be one of the worst written & questionably acted roles of last TV season. It was very disappointing that she was a female. I'd almost rather them focus on making the characters good as opposed to just filling a gender or race quota.

For me nothing about the new casting sounds interesting or appealing because it feels like we have all seen or heard these characters before on Arrow. I'm glad they are getting a more diverse cast. But honestly the characters & potential storylines seem very boring to me, especially if you consider we were already stuck with Curtis's journey to a mask. I'm really getting tired of every character have their own mini-arc and destiny to become a mask. Or somehow mirroring a character that already exists on Arrow.

That being said, the fact that they haven't announced  the casting of the Big Bad makes me wonder & sincerely hope that is might be a female. They said the character was inspired by Idris Elba's on the Shield, that doesn't mean it has to be a man. I could see a female being in that role if cast & written properly.

[bijoux]

With the Bratva this year, which to my limited knowledge is patriarchal, I think having a Lady Macbeth villain would be an excellent move to be revealed later in the season. Done right, it could parallel Malcolm's and Slade's reveals. This is what I was hoping for after Ruve's first appearance, but then I didn't really like her in the role later on so I dropped it. Better to keep expectations low, though, since I was completely, 100% convinced that Thea would be crucial in taking down DD. We all know how that went.

[mahree]

On 6/17/2016 at 7:50 PM, writersblock51 said:

I'm actually hoping that Oliver's inevitable (and hopefully well done) Bravta flashbacks

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*back to lurkerdom I go*

[Velocity23]

Artemis is coming. Sorry Morrigan for the actress

[looptab]

Oh, no. :/

[HighHopes]

On one hand, I am happy they are adding a female character. The show needs more than Felicity and Thea. On the other hand, the character is not really old enough to interact with the rest of the cast besides for the whole fighting crime scenes imo. 

Can the show please stop with adding new characters that are also masks?? We have Curtis, at least one of the new male characters, and now her. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by HighHopes

[dtissagirl]

Trolls.

Also, hello whitewashing, long short time no see.

Edited June 21, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Thundercatmary]

She's cute! She looks very young, how old is she supposed to be?

[Velocity23]

Hmmm they could have Thea and Artemis teaming up?

[looptab]

I thought Thea was their version of Artemis? Wasn't she supposed to be a mix of Artemis and Mia? Sorry never read the comics so this is confusing.

[Guest]

I always thought she might be back in some way based on the way SA introduced her on twitter. It felt like more than a one-off appearance tbh. I just wasn't sure how. At least she's not gonna be baby BC. Something at least. 

Good that it's another female though. Bad that it's yet another mask. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by Guest

[TrueMyth]

Oh for fuck's sake, how easy is it to pick up archery on this show?

If they wanted me to buy into this character, they should have had her do SOMETHING to help take down Damian.  I mean, I did find her a bit sympathetic when her parents had basically been brainwashed into giving their lives to Genesis and leaving her all alone.  And I thought she was a better Black Canary than KC (damning with faint praise, I know).

How will she interact with the other characters outside of maskdom?  I really want more daylight capers and such.  She's supposed to be a little genius, right?  I was a bit bummed when Thea didn't go to college, but she never seemed that interested in school or degree level work.  However, this girl really should be doing something with her life instead of beating down criminals.

[Starfish35]

Oh no.

*facepalm*

I guess that's what I get for wanting more female characters, but.....Artemis?  Noooooooo.  Artemis was my favorite character on Young Justice!  And she deserves better than this actress.  *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

[foreverevolving]

3 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

Oh for fuck's sake, how easy is it to pick up archery on this show?

If they wanted me to buy into this character, they should have had her do SOMETHING to help take down Damian.  I mean, I did find her a bit sympathetic when her parents had basically been brainwashed into giving their lives to Genesis and leaving her all alone.  And I thought she was a better Black Canary than KC (damning with faint praise, I know).

How will she interact with the other characters outside of maskdom?  I really want more daylight capers and such.  She's supposed to be a little genius, right?  I was a bit bummed when Thea didn't go to college, but she never seemed that interested in school or degree level work.  However, this girl really should be doing something with her life instead of beating down criminals.

Maybe Felicity takes her under her wing? or becomes a foster home for her?

But I do agree on the whitewashing.. I guess it's a wait and see. :-/

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Oh no.

*facepalm*

I guess that's what I get for wanting more female characters, but.....Artemis?  Noooooooo.  Artemis was my favorite character on Young Justice!  And she deserves better than this actress.  *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

Maybe...maybe she'll be better in this role than her stint as baby BC? (Never seen her in anything other than Arrow before so IDK...)

I'm sorry. That sucks when you want someone better for your fave character.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Guest

[Soulfire]

At least it's not Laurel. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TrueMyth]

Also, it's a pretty sure thing that she won't be a love interest for Oliver.  I'm trying to look on the bright side.  I really am.

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Maybe...maybe she'll be better in this role than her stint as baby BC? (Never seen her in anything other than Arrow before so IDK...)

I'm sorry. That sucks when you want someone better for your fave character.

She was bad on several episodes of Supernatural, too.

[Starfish35]

*sigh* Someday I will learn not to hope for better from this group.

Well, she's still Evelyn Sharp, not Artemis Crock, even if she's using the Artemis code name.  So I guess.... whatever.  Different character.  Same code name.  I still don't like the actress though. :(

Edited June 21, 2016 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

18 minutes ago, looptab said:

I thought Thea was their version of Artemis? Wasn't she supposed to be a mix of Artemis and Mia? Sorry never read the comics so this is confusing.

It's super icky for me to think of Thea as Artemis because ~in the comics~ [and Young Justice], Roy is romantically involved with Artemis' sister. They have a kid and everything.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

She was bad on several episodes of Supernatural, too.

Ah. Well, then...I've got nothing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I still don't understand why they think adding more cast members is gonna help their issues though. It's not.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

As much as I didn't like her much in 419, and as much as I have no earthly idea what a teenager is going to do on Arrow, i.e. I'm mostly concerned about what kind of interactions she might have with the rest of the cast, I'm not freaking out for now.

It doesn't necessarily mean that she'll be part of the team, or that she'll appear in a lot of episodes. Could be like Anarchy, who popped in and out of the season. Maybe they show her her path and then send her on her way.

 

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It's super icky for me to think of Thea as Artemis because ~in the comics~ [and Young Justice], Roy is romantically involved with Artemis' sister. They have a kid and everything.

But they said it, at some point, right? Or did I imagine it? But lol, yeah, we can't escape sister-swapping. Even cross-media.:)

[SmallScreenDiva]

These new masks feel like network or studio mandates to me. I know Stephen said Arrow wasn't launching new characters or spinoffs this season but I don't know, man, is he sure about that? Just waaaaayyyy too many masks already and the season hasn't even started yet. Here's the current count: Speedy, Wild Dog and Artemis. In the wings: Curtis. Possible: the new DA Adrian Chase.

[dtissagirl]

Hahaha, maybe this is why they bring Roy back and the triangle is Evelyn/Roy/Thea, and they make Roy sister-swap across media.

[Guest]

Let's just hope it's like the previous season where it felt like a lot of new cast members and then they were only in one or two episodes. Although Artemis seems a bit more involved than that.

I'd like them to concentrate on the cast members we already have, thank you! 

[calliope1975]

I am whelmed yet cautiously optimistic. Why? I don't know. Wait. I've changed my mind. They have never seemed to do well with a ton of masks; I doubt this will be any different. I'm willing to be surprised though. 

[looptab]

4 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Hahaha, maybe this is why they bring Roy back and the triangle is Evelyn/Roy/Thea, and they make Roy sister-swap across media.

God, I hope they do it. Then they'll hear me laughing from here, haha.

[apinknightmare]

The only thing I'm a little worried about is an influx of masked people means that we're going to get a story about Mayor Queen and his superhero friends, because he can't leave City Hall to suit up. If that's not what they're planning, then...cool, I guess. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

The CW and their love for white actresses...Sigh. Also she was terrible both on Arrow and on Supernatural so I wasn't eager to have her back. Double sigh.

[Velocity23]

They can do Artemis and Wally West in crossovers just like in the Young Justice!

[RussianRoulette]

So we are indeed going back to Arrow basics then! /sarcasm.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

*sigh* Someday I will learn not to hope for better from this group.

Well, she's still Evelyn Sharp, not Artemis Crock, even if she's using the Artemis code name.  So I guess.... whatever.  Different character.  Same code name.  I still don't like the actress though. :(

I don't even understand why they went with Artemis when they could have done Starling.

Nice to see my predictions come true, now if only I could use that to hit the lotto

Edited June 21, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Well I don't know about anyone else but for me it's strictly a casting issue.  I would have been thrilled at the idea of getting Artemis on the team, but not played by MM.

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Well I don't know about anyone else but for me it's strictly a casting issue.  I would have been thrilled at the idea of getting Artemis on the team, but not played by MM.

She's a totally sucky actress and I get the white washing complaints.  What's screwing me up is that she was set up in S4 to be Starling so Artemis seems really odd.  I wonder if DC/WB pulled Starling for that rumored Harley Quinn/BOP/Ladies Only movie?

Edited June 21, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tarotx]

I think Madison is going to be shown to be a bit of a needy copy cat.  She was influenced by Laurel and stole her identity and now she's influenced by Oliver and is taking up an archer nick name. Maybe she'll eventually be herself and settle on the name Starling. As Artemis, I hope she gets a crossbow pistol like the Huntress had. That will give her a cross between the Weapon Artemis traditionally uses and the one Starling uses. 

[Velocity23]

I feel like since Oliver is getting Wild Dog as his protegee, Evelyn will be forming a duo with Thea.

[Velocity23]

Arrow: Season 5 Casts The Walking Dead Alum Chad L. Coleman

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/06/21/arrow-season-5-casts-the-walking-dead-alum-chad-l-coleman?abthid=57699d071054131617000027

Quote

Tobias Church is described as "an imposing gangster looking to unite the various criminal enterprises in Star City under his own singular command." The villainous character will first be seen in Season 5's premiere.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Velocity23