Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

I'm getting vibes of Lemire's run with this announcement. Felicity=Naomi, Curtis=Fyfe, one does the software/hacking, one focuses on the hardware. Both work on creating trick arrows.

At least until 509-510 when they put Curtis in a mask I order to backdoor pilot his spinoff (I'm not even kidding)

[lemotomato]

Mixed feelings. I love Echo and I think he works great with the cast. I'm just not sure how they will fit Curtis in. I don't want him in the Arrow Cave regularly because they already have Felicity for Tech and they don't need another mask.

 

I'm kind of laughing at the fact that they didn't even wait for Laurel to be killed off because announcing another regular.

I think it only adds fuel to the "Diggle is in the grave, Felicity is leaving the show" spec. For all of 2 days, I know, but still.

 

As for Curtis being a regular, I can sort of see it working only if they're going to continue with the Felicity-as-CEO storyline (and y'know, actually show her working). It is kind of unrealistic to think she can work full-time with Team Arrow and successfully run a corporation at the same time. Oliver doesn't have to go on every patrol, so why not give Felicity someone to hand off her duties once in a while? And I say all of this as someone that gets really worried whenever Felicity's time with the Team is reduced.

Edited April 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[ArrowFan]

Sadly I don't think that is a good duo to be emulating. They are the 2 main reasons I find it very hard to watch that show.

 

Consider me on the team that thinks Curtis works better in small doses. I was overjoyed when EBR was promoted to a regular I think she adds something unique to the team dynamic both as an actor and as her character. It made the show a significantly better show. Kudos to them for seizing that opportunity. I think making Echo a regular is just a wrong tactical decision for the show. And I'm having the exact opposite reaction.

 

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the show killing off all the regulars (or heavily recurring) I liked in s1-3 to "focus" of the core story only to continue to bloat the cast every subsequent season with new masks. Tommy, Moira, Shado, Sara, Roy and even some of their VOTW all died in sacrifice for a better show per the writers and they are just making it worse. S4 looked like it was finally getting it stride by slimming down the masks and perhaps aiming for a more balanced story ~ but now I have to dread what machinations they will have to do to the plot to somehow incorporate unnecessary regulars like Malcolm & Curtis into every plot.

 

Im in major agreement with this. I love Curtis (thought 4x17, they overdid him a little), but he is better in limited doses.

 

The writers work best with a limitedcast. Season 2 was so strong because so many of the episodes revolved around Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity; Two secondary characters in Roy and Sara; and the rest were tertiary.

[AyChihuahua]

I think it only adds fuel to the "Diggle is in the grave, Felicity is leaving the show" spec. For all of 2 days, I know, but still.

I find the Curtis replacing Diggle speculation SO OFFENSIVE. Okay, so I used to watch The Walking Dead (quit after they killed horse #3), and every time but ONCE they announced a new black male character, they killed the prior black male character. I particularly hate it because I loved Oscar, the really good black prisoner. There's this scene where he's standing behind Daryl while Daryl feeds Judith for the first time, with this absolutely gorgeous smile. I found him completely fascinating, because he picked this ragtag crew of strangers over the people he knew in prison, and then the writers just killed him, without telling his story at all. Plus the show's set in like Georgia and there's only ever one major black male character at a time, and it infuriates me.

 

It went from Morgan (didn't die, but did disappear for several seasons) to T-Dog (dead) to Oscar (dead) to Tyreese (dead) and now back to Morgan. Oh, and the preacher who's currently on is a black male. So hey, progress?

Edited April 4, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

Maybe they just want to make sure they have Echo when they want him. Paul Blackthorne is a series regular and he doesn't get a lot of screen time. Arrow needs more POC so on surface I'm fine with his status upgrade. But if he's going to get more screen time and especially if he's going to get a lot, I hope they start working out this "perfectness" they have going with him so that he's actually human. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by tarotx

[bijoux]

My first reaction was nice news for EK, but do we really need more of Curtis? Then I got to thinking that we won't necessarily get much more of him than we do now. After all, Lance is a regular and he's hardly overtaking the show. So, if that's how that regular gig goes, I'm all for it.

@tarotx, jinx.

[Morrigan2575]

You know upping Echo to series regular doesn't have to be negative. They upped Manu from Recurring to Regular in S2 because they needed to lock him in for a specific story. It's possible they did the same with Echo, they need his character for something specific (spinoff potential? LoT role? Felicity storyline?)

Doesn't necessarily mean he'll have a heavy/long-term presence in S5 or beyond. They could just want to lock him in for S5 and didn't want to compete with other shows/offers)

Edited April 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

Goodbye Paul then, LOL

Also IMO what Arrow needs is less people, no more. Especially I didn't feel there was a lack of masked characters.

NOOOO I reject this.  good bye Laurel and Echo is taking her spot.

[DrSpaceman10]

Arrow's not an ensemble show, so every regular character should have some impact on Oliver/his story. Curtis has almost no connection to Oliver and I can't see how he'd impact his story at all.

 

I'm hoping Curtis won't be in the lair full-time next season and they'll keep him to a smaller role like they did this season, otherwise Arrow's going to have a lot of the same problems it's had with LL. 

[jay741982]

With Laurel leaving that's only two female regulars. The main cast of Arrow is dominant male I'm hoping they promote Donna next season to regular status or Lyla or Hell promote both . Like Quentin they don't have to be in every episode. Hell since Laurel is dying Please kill Malcolm too!!

Edited April 4, 2016 by jay741982

[Morrigan2575]

NOOOO I reject this. good bye Laurel and Echo is taking her spot.

Paul is Curtis' husband. Not Paul Blackthorne the actor that plays Captain Lance.

ETA: Did I misunderstand?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Midnight Lullaby]

NOOOO I reject this.  good bye Laurel and Echo is taking her spot.

To become Mr Terrific Paul has to die. I don't make the rules, sorry. :P

Poor Paul..I really like him and those two together.

[bijoux]

With Laurel leaving that's only two female regulars. The main cast of Arrow is dominant male I'm hoping they promote Donna next season to regular status or Lyla or Hell promote both . Like Quentin they don't have to be in every episode. Hell since Laurel is dying Please kill Malcolm too!!

I would take Lyla as a regular in a second. I love Donna since she pranced in on too high heels and too short a skirt,mbut think she works perfectly as a recurring character.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm personally hoping Malcolm is gone by end of S4 so there's room for Donna to become a series regular but I'm not sure they'll up CR

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'd take Lyla over Donna as well. I love Donna but I think as a regular she'd be a bit too much and Lyla is the head of ARGUS, there's potential there, not only as Dig's wife.

[foreverevolving]

I would take Lyla as a regular in a second. I love Donna since she pranced in on too high heels and too short a skirt,mbut think she works perfectly as a recurring character.

Y'a know? now i'm feeling offended on behalf of Audrey! woman has been on the show since Season 1, she's an extremely loved (seriously is there anyone who doesn't like her?), badass character they have yet to up to regular!

yet they do it with the new male character?

 

Come on show!!

[SmallScreenDiva]

Arrow's not an ensemble show, so every regular character should have some impact on Oliver/his story. Curtis has almost no connection to Oliver and I can't see how he'd impact his story at all.

 

I'm hoping Curtis won't be in the lair full-time next season and they'll keep him to a smaller role like they did this season, otherwise Arrow's going to have a lot of the same problems it's had with LL. 

 

This is what I'm hoping as well, he's a regular but doesn't have the screen time of the core trio or even Thea. I'm just very wary of this. Arrow has always had problems balancing characters. I like him in small doses but I'm wary Arrow might over do it like they did last episode. 

[Guest]

Yes, Donna is another character that only works in small doses, IMO. I'd much rather see more of Lyla tbh.

[SleepDeprived]

Curtis is joining the Team full-time in S5? Oh. I really like Echo, he seems like a fun dude. But I wasn't keen on him becoming a regular. Because that way too many masks thing is still a problem, once he becomes Mr. Terrific. Now, Lyla? YES, please!

 

So, does this announcement of EK getting upped to regular kinda shoot down any spin about possible budget concerns that Arrow might have, which is why somebody gonna get dead on Wednesday, or nah?

Edited April 4, 2016 by SleepDeprived

[bijoux]

I'd take Lyla over Donna as well. I love Donna but I think as a regular she'd be a bit too much and Lyla is the head of ARGUS, there's potential there, not only as Dig's wife.

If they ever do wake up and make her regular, the way she relates to Oliver would be one of the biggest assets she broought on. It's unique, and that's just from two moments we got over the course of 3+ seasons. Then there's also that great dinner scene with Felicity and Thea last year. I wouldn't mind more of that. But really, bringing ARGUS more to the foreground through her character would be great. And that's the part where her marriage could become interesting. Like, does Dig doing what he does cause problems for her at work?

[Starfish35]

I'll be surprised if they use the budget excuse. I think they'll just say for storyline reasons, needed to bring stakes back to the show, needs to show that superheroes can die (MG's already started with that one), etc etc.

Two female regulars is what the other two Flarrowverse shows have. I'm not thrilled with that, but I don't think it's unprecedented. But I see them upping Donna to regular status before Lyla, unless they intend to suddenly start making ARGUS a much larger part of the storylines.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

Curtis is joining the Team full-time in S5? Oh. I really like Echo, he seems like a fun dude. But I wasn't keen on him becoming a regular. Because that way too many masks thing is still a problem, once he becomes Mr. Terrific. Now, Lyla? YES, please!

 

So, does this announcement of EK getting upped to regular kinda shoot down any spin about possible budget concerns that Arrow might have, which is why somebody gonna get dead on Wednesday, or nah?

I doubt they'll go with Budget spin for LL/KC. It'll be story direction, needing something big to reset the danger/risks theme. Wanting to be daring, needing to shake things up in S4, and killing off a comic superhero/masked character was them going risky/edgy.

If you read the full MG EW interview in the Media thread you can already see the spin they're using being laid out.

[Belinea]

So, what I don't get with the MG interview: One the one hand he is saying that  death is permanent from a contractual basis. If you kill off a character, that actor is not working on the show on a regular basis but then he says that death has a different meaning now that we’re in a world of parallel universes on Flash and time travel on Legends.

 

So he is  basically saying that death isn't permanent, it is only permanent if the actor whose contract is null and void after being fired doesn't want to return. Am I getting this right?

 

I don't know why but I always assumed EK would be a regular next year, the way they always talked about him being in the beginning stages of being Mr. Terrific made me think that was the plan. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Belinea

[catrox14]

With Laurel leaving that's only two female regulars. The main cast of Arrow is dominant male I'm hoping they promote Donna next season to regular status or Lyla or Hell promote both . Like Quentin they don't have to be in every episode. Hell since Laurel is dying Please kill Malcolm too!!

 

Ugh this just makes the death of Moira more painful.  GAH.  I MISS MOIRA

To become Mr Terrific Paul has to die. I don't make the rules, sorry. :P

Poor Paul..I really like him and those two together.

 

But why???? Is it a comics thing? Are you trolling me LOL?

Paul is Curtis' husband. Not Paul Blackthorne the actor that plays Captain Lance.

ETA: Did I misunderstand?

 

OHHH I thought you mean Blackthorne.  NEVER MIND....but sorry Husband Paul...

[SleepDeprived]

I doubt they'll go with Budget spin for LL/KC. It'll be story direction, needing something big to reset the danger/risks theme. Wanting to be daring, needing to shake things up in S4, and killing off a comic superhero/masked character was them going risky/edgy.

If you read the full MG EW interview in the Media thread you can already see the spin they're using being laid out.

 

Yeah, I just read it. It was actually a really good interview. Thanks!

[quarks]

 

So, does this announcement of EK getting upped to regular kinda shoot down any spin about possible budget concerns that Arrow might have, which is why somebody gonna get dead on Wednesday, or nah?

 

The ongoing set issues on all three shows are not making me any less concerned about the budget issues for next year. 

 

But I don't think adding EK in changes whatever Arrow is budgeting for the salaries for regulars all that much. Basically, over four seasons, Arrow has lost four regulars (Tommy, Moira, Slade, Roy) and gained four regulars (Felicity, Roy, Slade, Malcolm).  (Neil McDonough is credited as Special Appearance By.) The only real gain in regulars came in season two, when Arrow added three - and then ended the season by killing two of them off. Adding Curtis for season five after killing off Laurel is just following that pattern.

 

Add me to the list of people who would be thrilled to see Lyla upped to regular status, though.

Edited April 4, 2016 by quarks

[statsgirl]

Tim Beedle@Tim_Beedle

Just saw this week's #Arrow. I'm not going to spoil anything, but it's easily the best episode of the season. Keep some tissues handy.

 

So Big Hero Death then....

[Sakura12]

I doubt EK costs as much as KC. So they did give themselves some more money in the budget. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yeah, husband Paul. Paul the actor is going to be just fine..

[Morrigan2575]

I'm curious to see if they'll get me with LL's death. I loathe the character but if done right it might work, it has before.

[calliope1975]

I also mixed feelings on EK becoming recurring. Echo's made Curtis likable, but they still need to dial down his perfectness by 100. However, I'm still more pleased at Curtis being recurring than I was when it was announced that MM was coming back. Again. After way outstaying his welcome.

 

Will I shed actual tears on Wednesday? I suppose it depends on it they are from sadness or happiness. 

[Guest]

I don't think you necessarily have to like a character to feel something about their death. It's usually the other characters reacting to the death that gets me.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think you necessarily have to like a character to feel something about their death. It's usually the other characters reacting to the death that gets me.

Yes, that's what's gotten me in the past. There's also one character whose deaths got me and, I actively loathed that character. However, their death episodes/scenes were very well done. Spoiler for the character/show even though it's pretty old

Kara/Starbuck on BSG. Both Malstrom and her final"death" in the series finale saddened me, even though I detested the character

Edited April 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[lemotomato]

Based on Lindsay MacDonald's sequence of emojis, I wonder if the episode will go with the "something big happens" in the cold open-"48-hours earlier" storytelling format. I can see them spending the whole episode hinting that Diggle dies, only to swerve at the end.

Edited April 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[TwistedandBored]

I am happy Echo will a regular cast member in season 5. This show sometimes has problems of not locking down actors and stories suffering because of it. Curtis is one of my favorite guest star character in a while. Plus EK gives me BTS Emily clips that are just hilarious. He is welcome in my book. 

[wonderwall]

I am happy Echo will a regular cast member in season 5. This show sometimes has problems of not locking down actors and stories suffering because of it. Curtis is one of my favorite guest star character in a while. Plus EK gives me BTS Emily clips that are just hilarious. He is welcome in my book. 

 

I feel like this is what happened to JR and how much of an epic fail Wildcat was in S3 because the actor got a new job... I have mixed feelings about this, yes, but I'm not going to judge until I hear more about season 5 in the summer. I think we may not see Curtis as much as people think we are... Look at PB and JB. They're series regulars yet we barely see them *shrugs*

[Morrigan2575]

I saw a screen cap from GATV that reveals Laurel's unexpected offer. It's a job offer from the new mayor.

[Velocity23]

Seems no cliffhanger for the end of the episode.

[statsgirl]

Who is the new mayor? Ruve?

[Midnight Lullaby]

All the journalists said they cried and since I never find their reactions accurate I think I won't, LOL.

[apinknightmare]

Who is the new mayor? Ruve?

 

I'm hoping it's Oliver through a write-in campaign. Because even worse than electing a closeted baddie is electing someone who apparently didn't want the job, lmao. That's so Star City!

Edited April 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[TwistedandBored]

I feel like this is what happened to JR and how much of an epic fail Wildcat was in S3 because the actor got a new job... I have mixed feelings about this, yes, but I'm not going to judge until I hear more about season 5 in the summer. I think we may not see Curtis as much as people think we are... Look at PB and JB. They're series regulars yet we barely see them *shrugs*

 

I don't think he will replace Felicity. I just think he is one dead spouse away from wearing a mask and going out there with the crew. 

[AyChihuahua]

All the journalists said they cried and since I never find their reactions accurate I think I won't, LOL.

I almost never cry at shows. Can't offhand remember the last time I did...maybe when Buffy died in S5?

 

Seems no cliffhanger for the end of the episode.

Cool, I took Thursday morning off work, hitting the liquor store tomorrow!

Edited April 4, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

If the new mayor is Ruve, then it makes sense that Laurel would be conflicted about going to work for her - seems like she'd want to infiltrate her office of evil. Maybe Ruve knows she's the BC, and that somehow results in her death? IDK.

[statsgirl]

Ruve is about the only character I can see Laurel having conflict about taking the job since she's eeeevvviiilllll.  With anyone else, it might be a nice job change for her.

 

Maybe Ruve is smarter than her husband, who still hasn't figured out that Oliver is the Green Arrow.

[BkWurm1]

I'm glad. He works well with everyone, they just need to hit the right balance. If he's going to be in the bunker with Felicity, at first, there's potential for comedy.

My gut says it means he's in the Bunker and Felicity stays in the CEO office for a long while at least. 

 

I think it only adds fuel to the "Diggle is in the grave, Felicity is leaving the show" spec. For all of 2 days, I know, but still.

 

As for Curtis being a regular, I can sort of see it working only if they're going to continue with the Felicity-as-CEO storyline (and y'know, actually show her working). It is kind of unrealistic to think she can work full-time with Team Arrow and successfully run a corporation at the same time. Oliver doesn't have to go on every patrol, so why not give Felicity someone to hand off her duties once in a while? And I say all of this as someone that gets really worried whenever Felicity's time with the Team is reduced.

I will be ok once they get to a point where she's back involved regularly with the team but not I'm not feeling like that happens any time soon.  :(  They are not subtle about making room on the team. 

 

I'd take Lyla over Donna as well. I love Donna but I think as a regular she'd be a bit too much and Lyla is the head of ARGUS, there's potential there, not only as Dig's wife.

Donna might as well have been a regular this season as often as she was on the show.  They don't have to have her in every episode but why not make her a regular reoccurring character?  Same for Lyla.  Make em regulars with a contract, just not full time.  I have a feeling that Curtis will be full time, at least as much as Quentin. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I almost never cry at shows. Can't offhand remember the last time I did...maybe when Buffy died in S5?

 

Cool, I took Thursday morning off work, hitting the liquor store tomorrow!

I only cry when I'm upset about something in real life and the tv show/movie upsets/annoys me even more.

[statsgirl]

Quentin being full time wasn't a problem because he had his very specific niche on the show -- he was The Cop they worked through.  Lyla would also be okay because she's Diggle's wife and head of ARGUS.

Curtis, on the other hand, is Felicity V2 (or V3 if you count Ray); he's an IT expert who is also comic relief.

[Sakura12]

I almost never cry at shows. Can't offhand remember the last time I did...maybe when Buffy died in S5?

 

I didn't even cry when Sara died, mostly because I was so pissed off that just turned off the tv and walked away. However I think I teared up when Buffy's mom died. 

[BkWurm1]

I almost never cry at shows. Can't offhand remember the last time I did...maybe when Buffy died in S5?

 

Cool, I took Thursday morning off work, hitting the liquor store tomorrow!

 

I'm going to lose it and start blubbering the second that Paul Blackstone does and you know he is going to bring it. 

 

If the new mayor is Ruve, then it makes sense that Laurel would be conflicted about going to work for her - seems like she'd want to infiltrate her office of evil. Maybe Ruve knows she's the BC, and that somehow results in her death? IDK.

So Chief of Staff maybe?  DA was my first thought but that's an elected position, isn't it? 

 

I still can't believe that TA just shrugged their shoulders and did nothing to stop Ruve' from winning just because he didn't want to look like a flip flopper.  Between the coercion to quit and Ruve' being in bed with DD, the very least they should have done is spread some rumors.