Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

EBR posted a pic of CR on the hospital set. EBR and CR were photographen on the Palmer Tech set. And I don't think it could be seen where WH and CR were in their shot, just that CR had the same outfit as she did in the previous shots.

[Guest]

EBR posted a pic of CR on the hospital set. EBR and CR were photographen on the Palmer Tech set. And I don't think it could be seen where WH and CR were in their shot, just that CR had the same outfit as she did in the previous shots.

 

Thank you. I'm getting all turned around! LOL.

[kismet]

Considering the vastness of an organization like HIVE, I think it would be shortsighted for ARROW to destroy it in one season. I will also say it would be short-sighted & dumb to put MM in charge of HIVE, like they did with LoA. Part of the reason, I have such a vile response to any future LoA plots is because of their missteps with Ras & MM. Had they just put Nyssa in charge, and let the LoA fade back into the grey potentially nefarious organization they were I would have had no problem with LoA showing up. But the writers definitely screwed it up when they gave it to MM.

 

I think they definitely need to disable the HIVE organization this season, stop their corn project and whatever this genesis thing is. But I do think they should keep HIVE around as a fractured but viable criminal organization. And then HIVE can fade into the background and perhaps become a player again in 2-3 seasons.

 

I'm torn about what they should do with DD. I really like NM, but they seem to have run out of things to do with his character. I think there are more stories to tell with him, but I can't imagine the writers have the creativity to do it, considering they could barely get 15 episodes out of him without scraping the same idea barrel.

[Chaser]

4x18 is airing 4/6 right? I never thought I would look forward to a Laurel episode. Is this the last hiatus since they are taking an extra week?

I'm super petty. I'm making notes of podcasts and after shows I want to watch.

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, 416 airs on 4/6

[Mrs. de Winter]

So if the show had a “kill list” and the network didn’t make a decision until the holiday break on the victim, does that mean that Felicity was never on it?  Or was the limo scene at the funeral a pick-up after the decision was made?  If Felicity was never on it they did a better than expected job of faking people out. 

 

We never found out who Felicity’s dad was working for did we?  I wonder if it will end up being Malcom and that is how MM knew about Oliver’s kid.  At least that would have made this ridiculousness somewhat interesting. 

 

Any ideas on what Felicity’s project is going to be?  EBR said it is about “trying to prevent danger and death in the future.” Some sort of early warning system?  Is she going to start he own company with Curtis and build tech things for the team?  Here’s hoping it is something that she has a large roll in and that is hers.

[Morrigan2575]

Felicity was never on the kill list. The limo seen was filmed pre Christmas break, during the filming of 414

[Mrs. de Winter]

That is what I figured re: Felicity not being on the list.  It seems there are several courses of crow that may need to be eaten before this is all over. 

[calliope1975]

How long was the kill list, I wonder. Was it everyone but Oliver and Felicity? Limited to the Lance clan? I'm very curious.

[SmallScreenDiva]

This is the one thing I was sure of this entire time: Felicity was never a candidate for the grave. 

[looptab]

I would guess that Donna isn't there either because they want to focus on the Lance family or because CR had other commitments, but if this were real world, I think it would depend on how Quentin and Dinah feel and how they mourn. I can see reasons both for and against Donna being there, but if she is, I would hope that she would sit in the back with Oliver and Felicity rather than in the front with the Lance family. She's still a very new girlfriend and barely knows Laurel. As Laurel told Quentin before the building blew up, she'd like to join them for dinner to get to know Donna. In terms of feelings, I think Dinah should get priority over Donna.

Yeah, as I stated in my earlier post, at this point I'm not arguing that Donna should be there, I was more taken aback that the reason for her absence might be Quentin asking her not to go. And probably you missed the post where I reply to you directly, but I've said exactly that: I wouldn't expect Donna to be especially involved, but she should be there nevertheless.

Anyway I'm dropping this now.

Edited March 2, 2016 by looptab

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Virtually the entire last page was related to talk about other fans and their views.  You guys are *killing* me.  

 

Please.  

Stop.  

Stop. 

Stop.  

STOP talking about Arrow fans.  

 

And now for something nicer. 

[Starfish35]

Awwwwww. Kitties! :)

[wonderwall]

Wait, are the collider videos considered fan talk? I'm confused haha

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Wait, are the collider videos considered fan talk? I'm confused haha

 

Last time this issue came up, a few people sent us some impassioned and generally respectful message as to why opinions of people affiliated with media outlets should be fair game for criticism.  I have some sympathy for that argument and in some cases, there is room for that kind of thoughtful discussion.  

 

That being said, the Collider discussion basically ended up boiling "Here is why those Collider morons suck-diddly-uck for thinking X." As you correctly observed in one of your posts, the conversation took a turn towards fan talk and kept careening down that path.  That path leads to tears and spooky carnival death.   No one wants that.  

[BkWurm1]

At the risk of oversharing, which I was trying to avoid, I am hoping my ex's new wife doesn't show up at our daughter's graduation or wedding, and I'd be very upset if she showed up at her funeral.  And they have been together a lot longer than Quentin and Donna have.

 

Any solace Quentin needs, he can get from Dinah even though they've been apart for years.  They can share memories of :Laurel and Sara when they were little, remembering when they found out Dinah was pregnant and all their feelings then, and watching the girls grow up, anecdotes about Laurel wanting to be a lawyer, talking about what a great woman she had grown up to be. 

 

Donna would have no place in that. She's been Quentin's  girlfriend for only a few months and she barely knew Laurel.  For Quentin, I think he'd get more out of talking and remembering with Dinah than having Donna there.

In TV Land I think who is at a funeral does boil down to the story being told so if all they needed was the Lance family in morning, we wouldn't have to have a shot of Donna being supportive of Quentin, but in real life it's far more likely that Dinah too would show up with her boyfriend than go to her daughters funeral alone.  She and Quentin would both morn for their daughter and would probably share a moment or too but too much time has gone by to have any expectation of really solidly leaning on each other anymore.  They aren't that person to each other anymore no matter what connection they will forever share because of their kids.  For DL and QL, they aren't even in each other's regular lives. 

 

I totally understand wishing some virtual stranger that is not in your life (aka the ex's new SO) wouldn't be around for a very personal or vulnerable moment, but realistically, they belong at these events be it a graduation or wedding or funeral because it's important to the ex and that makes it important to them as well...even when it feels like a huge intrusion to those of us on the other side. 

 

It's tricky because they'd want to be there to be supportive of this person in their lives and part of that is knowing when to step back and let them find support with someone closer to the situation but stepping back is only a temporary thing and the real support comes from those you have in your regular day to day life.

 

So all that is just for me to say that whether a boyfriend or girlfriend or even just a friend friend was there at the grave site rather than meeting up later at the memorial or sitting in the front row rather than in a back row  really comes down IMO not to propriety or any kind of "accepted" practice but to what that person in morning needs...even if that might be at odds with what other people also just as deeply in morning want.  It's tough place to be in and not easy to find the right balance, but they do have a good reason to be in that place. 

 

I'd hope that Quentin wouldn't begrudge Dinah support or comfort in the face of such a loss even if it came from a source in the past he wished didn't exist.  Of course this IS TVland so no boyfriend for Dinah cause that would be a wasted paycheck and complicated casting and a build expectations about future storylines that the show might have zero intention of following up on. 

 

Really not showing Donna at the funeral doesn't even mean that she wasn't there (off screen),   screen), she's just not in the relevant scene being filmed.  That likely would be a moment she'd supportively have backed off.

 

I don't think how long someone has been dating is the biggest deciding factor.  I think it would be how they make you feel.  Would Donna being there in some capacity be a comfort to him?  Time isn't always the best way to determine that. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by BkWurm1

[wonderwall]

From my point of view, I definitely wouldn't expect ones girlfriend of only a couple of months to be invited to her boyfriend's daughter's funeral. It just seems strange to me because to me, burying someone should only be for the people who were closest to them. I'd get seeing Donna at the wake, but not at the actual burial.

And who knows? Maybe this whole thing is as simple as Donna not knowing that Quentins daughter just died. Maybe no one told her because they're either too busy or too in grief to even think about notifying her.

[Velocity23]

So seems Oliver was at Tommys funeral.

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/140299236173/luvsumtv-reblogged-your-post-oliverdant-i

[bijoux]

I'm glad it hasn't been referenced. Saying that "you'd crawl into [this] hole" seems a pretty crass thing to say in someone's eulogy to me.

[looptab]

From my point of view, I definitely wouldn't expect ones girlfriend of only a couple of months to be invited to her boyfriend's daughter's funeral. It just seems strange to me because to me, burying someone should only be for the people who were closest to them. I'd get seeing Donna at the wake, but not at the actual burial.

And who knows? Maybe this whole thing is as simple as Donna not knowing that Quentins daughter just died. Maybe no one told her because they're either too busy or too in grief to even think about notifying her.

I really want to stop harping on about this, but may I remind that Diggle and Felicity did attend Moira's burial? Edited March 2, 2016 by looptab

[Morrigan2575]

So seems Oliver was at Tommys funeral.

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/140299236173/luvsumtv-reblogged-your-post-oliverdant-i

Hmm, so I guess that settles it?  Past Funeral is Sara, present funeral is Laurel.  Which actually makes a ton of sense given just how much they've tied Laurel to Sara in the past. Even KC during the TCA's (last year) was talking about how Laurel was becoming her sister and, in her "talknerdy" interview she mentioned the super strong bond between Laurel/Sara and how they were possibly twins. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[doesntworkonwood]

Hmm, so I guess that settles it?  Past Funeral is Sara, present funeral is Laurel.  Which actually makes a ton of sense given just how much they've tied Laurel to Sara in the past. Even KC during the TCA's (last year) was talking about how Laurel was becoming her sister and, in her "talknerdy" interview she mentioned the super strong bond between Laurel/Sara and how they were possibly sisters. 

They are sisters. They might be twins. But that's not a spoiler or anything...

[tarotx]

They are sisters. They might be twins. But that's not a spoiler or anything...

KC did use the term Twin sisters and while it's not a spoiler, MORRIGAN2575 is talking about it in relationship to the 4.19 funeral. 

[dtissagirl]

I cannot wait for the super inappropriate symbolism that this episode's gonna carry. Laurel buries people, Laurel gravediggs people, Laurel gets buried herself. Yikes.

[doesntworkonwood]

KC did use the term Twin sisters and while it's not a spoiler, MORRIGAN2575 is talking about it in relationship to the 4.19 funeral. 

I'm aware. I was being sarcastic :D

[wonderwall]

I really want to stop harping on about this, but may I remind that Diggle and Felicity did attend Moira's burial?

I in by no means was attacking your argument, just wanted to state my PoV. IMO I'd rather Felicity/Diggle be at Moira's wake than at her burial but that's a personal statement I've never voiced on here because I always thought that it was such a minor detail that I simply overlooked it. My PoV has nothing to do with the show, and if the show decided that Donna couldn't be at the funeral for whatever reason, I'd be okay with that considering my personal views. 

[Morrigan2575]

They are sisters. They might be twins. But that's not a spoiler or anything...

I just realized I used sisters when I meant twins.  Glad you got the joke

[hogwash]

Does that mean that Sara is gonna ~know~ when Laurel dies since they're so "connected"? I would actually buy it if the second half of S02 hadn't convinced me that they kinda despise each other. They're like frenemies (the kind in mid-2000s teen movies) who happen to be sisters.

 

Anyway, Oliver's single manly tear really fits considering Thea forced to him stay/be friends with Laurel. Plus, Barry barely knew her and Felicity tends to get overemotional and empathetic when it comes to these things so all that fits too.

[Chaser]

I'm interested in reading the post mortems from the EPs. I'm hoping they go through their thought-process on each character.

Personally, I think Laurel was at the top of their list. They were writing her for the grave. No storylines, no new cast members to interact with, etc...

[looptab]

I in by no means was attacking your argument, just wanted to state my PoV. IMO I'd rather Felicity/Diggle be at Moira's wake than at her burial but that's a personal statement I've never voiced on here because I always thought that it was such a minor detail that I simply overlooked it. My PoV has nothing to do with the show, and if the show decided that Donna couldn't be at the funeral for whatever reason, I'd be okay with that considering my personal views. 

Oh, I didn't think you were. :) I hope it didn't sound like I was attacking you. If so, that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to point that out - not to you in particular, just for the sake of the argument I am making. :)

[tv echo]

PRELIMINARY SUMMARY OF SPOILERS FOR 416 - 419:

 

S4, Episode 16: Broken Hearts
-- Production code: 416.  Director: John Showalter.  Shoot Dates: Jan. 21 - Feb. 1, 2016. Airdate: Mar. 23, 2016. (MG tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread, BFS tweet, page 895 of Spoiler Discussion thread, and Hollywood Hills article, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- 416 synopsis: TBA.
-- See 416 promo and extended promo posted. (416 promo and extended promo videos, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Laurel will be back in court in 416.  (MG tweet, page 28 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Laurel, MG: "She's going to prosecute Damien Darhk in 416.  Or try to. ;)." (MG reply tweet , page 33 of Spoilers thread)
-- Cupid (AG) will appear in 416.  (CBR article, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- Cin tweet, "Broken Hearted..... #Arrow filming scenes with Oliver, Diggle, Willa, Felicity aaaaaand... Cupid today." (Cin@filmsy101 tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread)
-- Pic of Olicity 'wedding' posted. (MG tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- On the wedding pic, MG: "Not a dream sequence.  Not a hallucination.  Not an alternate reality.  Not a flash forward to a potential future." (MG tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Canadagraphs: "#Arrow just shot scenes of the Olicity wedding. Episode 416." (Canadagraphs tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread)
-- ChefB tweet: "@yvrshoots @iAMourCashmier I was there. Wrapped at 1030 and yup a wedding and Cupid." (ChefB@chefbk11 tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread)
-- Pics of hotel ballroom and aisle where they filmed the Olicity wedding posted. ((NO)ra tweets, page 837 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- What's Filming tweet (on Jan. 29): "#Arrow setting up in PNE Forum. Saw a 1950s era linens truck /w San Francisco on it. Flashback/Time Travel? Were @ Alsco Linens Wednesday." (WF tweet, page 30 of Spoilers thread)
-- Taiana (ER) may be in this episode. (ER tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

 

Episode 416 and/or 417
-- 416 extended promo included shot of Oliver lying shirtless on table in Arrowcave. (416 extended promo video, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- SA tweeted on Feb. 3: "It's not a season of Arrow until I'm shirtless on an exam table fighting for my life." (SA tweet, page 866 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

S4, Episode 17: Beacon of Hope
-- Production code: 417.  Director: Michael Schultz.  Shoot Dates: Feb. 1- 11, 2016.  Airdate: Mar. 30, 2016? (MG tweet, page 30 of Spoilers thread)
-- 417 synopsis: TBA.
-- MG's Billy Joel song pick for 417 is "She's Always a Woman." (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- In response to fan asking which storyline has been a challenge for him and Ben Sokolowski to co-write, Brian Ford Sullivan: "417 was a real challenge. In a good way. You'll understand why when you see it." (BFS tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Donna Smoak will appear in 417. (CR tweet, page 30 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per CR, filming for 417 started on Feb. 1. (CR facebook posting, page 30 of Spoilers thread)
-- CR shot a scene in the Starling City Hospital for 417. (CR instagram pic posted in fan tweet, page 866 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Curtis will be in 417 because EK was shooting on Feb. 4. (EK tweet, page 30 of Spoilers thread)
-- Emily Kinney, who plays the Bug-Eyed Bandit, will be in 417 because she was shooting an Arrow episode on or about Feb. 5, 2016. (Tweets in Morrigan2575 post, page 31 of Spoilers thread, and same tweets in Velocity23 post, page 859 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Taiana will be in this episode because ER was filming the week of Feb. 1. (ER tweet, page 850 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

S4, Episode 18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine
-- Production code: 418.  Director: Rob Hardy.  Shoot Dates: Feb. 12-23, 2016.  Airdate: Apr. 6, 2016?  (MG tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- 418 synopsis: TBA.
-- Per MG, 418 began shooting on Feb. 12. (MG tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- MG's Billy Joel song pick for 418 is "Famous Last Words." (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- PB posted pic of Quentin wearing a flashback wig on Feb. 12. (PB tweet, page 316 of Social Media thread)
-- Arrow was filming at Vancouver Community College on East Broadway on Feb. 17-18 (with "Queen for Mayor 2016" pic).  (YVRShoots tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread, and Oliver Queen Films Notification Letter, page 878 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Scenes being shot at Vancouver Community College have to do with the mayoral campaign.  (YVRShoots tweet , page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Feb. 17, SA, WH and KC were filming something for mayoral campaign; and PB and KC filmed a coffee shop scene.  (Juvelyz in VC tweets, page 880 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Taiana will appear in 418 because ER was on the Arrow set on Feb. 23.  (ER tweet page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Unclear whether Donna will appear in 418.  On Feb. 18, CR tweeted: "Nooooo @EmilyBett -I want to Nemo w/ you!! ???? We'll have Nemo pajama party next week!" (CR tweet, page 881 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

Relevant MG Tumblr Post?

-- In response to fan asking if it was true that KC "decided to leave" or whether it was just a rumor, MG replied: "Total rumor. And a false one, at that."  (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)

 

S4, Episode 19: TBA  (has "R" in title)
-- Production code: 419.  Shoot Dates: Feb. 24 - Mar. 4, 2016.  Director: Laura Belsey. Writers: WM and Beth Schwartz.  Airdate: Apr. 13, 2016? (MG tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- 419 synopsis: TBA.
-- At the Portland Comic Con on Feb. 18/19, Alex Kingston said that she would be returning to film Arrow at the end of the week. (Video of Portland Comic Con 2016, page 325 of Social Media thread)
-- Alex Kingston arrived in Vancouver on Feb. 25 for Arrow filming. (Papp tweets, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per Canadagraphs, Sara Lance's old gravestone marker was on set on Feb. 26. (Canadagraphs tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Feb. 25, SA tweeted that Madison McLaughlin will be appearing on an Arrow episode. (SA tweet, page 902 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Madison McLaughlin's casting in a mystery role for 419 seems to match a recent casting breakdown for “Rebecca,” a teenage character who appears in Episode 19 — with the potential to recur — and is described as a “smart, snarky” “escapee of a dangerous cult.” (TVLine tweeted article, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Papp tweet said that Madison McLaughlin was not playing "Rebecca."  (TVLine tweet, page 904 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- According to the Dark Archer comics, when Malcolm was young, he was a member of a cult called The Hidden. So it's possible that Madison McLaughline's character is somehow related to Malcolm. (Oliverdant tumblr post, page 920 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Leaked on-set funeral pics showed Dinah, Nyssa, McLaughlin's character, Felicity, Thea, Diggle, brunette Laurel and Quentin (with and without flashback wig), and also men carrying a casket, and funeral scenes.  (Various papp tweets and fan tumblr posts, pages 32-33 of Spoilers thread, and pages 908-915 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Leaked on-set funeral pic showed partial view of tombstone with "ayton" as part of name, but could be coincidence and not relevant to the funeral. (KatieCassidyBrasil pic, page 909 of Spoiler Discussion thread, and papp tweet, page 33 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per papp tweet, SA was also in a group scene as well as a scene alone with the gravestone. (Larry Andreutti tweet, page 915 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per papp tweet, description on pic folder was "Katie Cassidy films her last day on Arrow." (marilia@melliegrantaf tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread and page 909 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Papp report (on Feb. 26): "Katie Cassidy films her last day on the CW series 'Arrow'. The 29 year old actress is apparently being fired from the show for not getting along with other cast members, and being late/holding up production." (Scan of Steve Ginsburg blurb posted in fan tweet, page 913 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per Canadagraphs, 419 episode title is "Canary Cry."  (Canadagraphs tweet, page 33 of Spoilers thread and page 914 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per Canadagraphs, the tombstone didn't have a name. (Canadagraphs tweet, page 915 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per Canadagraphs: the majority of twitter or tumblr posts about who's in the grave are right; there were two funerals being filmed (present day and flashback); the Clayton tombstone was a "random fluke"; and during the day, every main cast was on set, plus three non-regulars, and at no point was everyone on set at the same time.  (Canadagraphs tumblr post, page 923 of Spoiler Dicussion thread)
-- Arrow was filming at the Terminal City Club Hotel in Vancouver on Feb. 28-29. (Oliver Queen Films filming notification letter, page 33 of Spoilers thread, and page 919 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Donna will appear in 419 because CR returned for Arrow filming on Feb. 29. (CR tweet, page 33 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per fan tweet (on Feb. 24), PY was back for filming Arrow. (OutlawHobbies tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread)

Edited March 2, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

I'm interested in reading the post mortems from the EPs. I'm hoping they go through their thought-process on each character.

Personally, I think Laurel was at the top of their list. They were writing her for the grave. No storylines, no new cast members to interact with, etc...

They even gave her the dialogue with Oliver about whatever happens to them not being his fault. Sure, pretty much everybody got to have a similar conversation with him, but hers matched the lines from the FF.

Edited March 2, 2016 by looptab

[Midnight Lullaby]

They hinted heavily at Laurel being in the grave since the beginning of the season with all the times they had Lance say he worries about her, that he doesn't know what he would do if something happened to her, with Laurel saying it wouldn't be his or Oliver's fault because she chose to put herself in danger and she can take care of herself so I believe she was a top candidate from the beginning, but they also hinted at other characters, even Felicity, mostly for the sake of creating buzz. For example an argument for Lance being in the grave could have been that they made him work with Darhk so that at the end he could have redeemed himself even if it was going to cost him his life. It's hard to say which characters were real options and which one were just red herrings, or we took them as such, unless they flat out tell us.

By the way I remembered Marc said the death will feel "deserved"..any idea what he could have meant? It's a weird choice of words and if they didn't know who was going to be back then even weirder.

[Sakura12]

She said Laurel and Sara were like twins, really? So KC basically confirmed that Laurel wanted to become Sara. Not honor  her or anything like that, take over her life. Because that's something that's doesn't come across as crazy. Maybe a better storyline for Laurel would've been she has some undiagnosed mental illness. 

[Morrigan2575]

By the way I remembered Marc said the death will feel "deserved"..any idea what he could have meant? It's a weird choice of words and if they didn't know who was going to be back then even weirder.

 

 

I thought he was talking about the Lazarus Pit when he gave that "deserved" comment?

 

She said Laurel and Sara were like twins, really? So KC basically confirmed that Laurel wanted to become Sara. Not honor  her or anything like that, take over her life. Because that's something that's doesn't come across as crazy. Maybe a better storyline for Laurel would've been she has some undiagnosed mental illness.

 

At TCA's last year KC gave an interview where she talked about Laurel's progression, it went she was avenging her sister, to honoring her sister to becoming her sister.

 

Then in the Talk Nerdy interview a couple of weeks ago, she talked about how Sara/Laurel were so close, their bond was beyond sisterly and how (no spoilers) but she wouldn't be surprised to find out that they were twins.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

She said Laurel and Sara were like twins, really? So KC basically confirmed that Laurel wanted to become Sara. Not honor  her or anything like that, take over her life. Because that's something that's doesn't come across as crazy. Maybe a better storyline for Laurel would've been she has some undiagnosed mental illness.

She basically said that it wouldn't surprise her if they found out Sara and Laurel were twins, because they were so connected. It was her own head canon.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I went looking for his comment and he didn't say deserved, I remembered wrong, he said "it will feel organic and very earned". It was back in October. http://www.etonline.com/tv/173462_arrow_season_4_premiere_who_is_dying/

It seems a weird choice of words if you don't know who is going to die and why.

[wonderwall]

It's kind of sad, Laurel went from being a supposedly strong, confident, and somewhat passionate lawyer in season 1 to a wannabe vigilante who's life revolves around Sara. I feel bad for LAUREL fans. Because the character was so much more than the mask, and I don't even have to like her to know that. 

[looptab]

She basically said that it wouldn't surprise her if they found out Sara and Laurel were twins, because they were so connected. It was her own head canon.

This twins comment will never stop being hilarious to me. :)

[tv echo]

SUMMARY OF GENERAL SPOILERS ABOUT THE BIG DEATH*

 

(* These spoilers do not include the episode-specific spoilers)

 

-- Regarding the 401 flashforward gravesite scene, MG: " It’s not a fake out. That’s not how we work." WM: "They will stay dead. We want to bring stakes back to the show, so we’ll be finding a way to handle the Lazarus Pit portion of Season 4 in a new, inventive way that I can’t reveal, but it will be cool.”  MG: "It’ll feel organic and very earned. It’s actually very elegant.” (Collider, DocBrown TV, EW, ETonline, Hollywood Reporter, TVLine and Variety articles, page 22 of Spoilers thread)

 

-- WM: "As seen in the season premiere, we’re going to say good-bye to a very prominent character on the show. It’s going to be a tearjerker at the end." (Emmys article, page 93 of Starling City Times thread)

 

-- On who's in the grave, WM: "It’s going to be a big shocker." (EW article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

 

-- Per WM, we’ll finally learn who dies "towards the end of the season. I can’t tell you which episode – you’ll have to watch! But it’s big stakes and it’s going to be a big shock, so we want to make sure that we handle it with as much care as possible, and that means making sure that we are ramping into it in all the right ways, so that pushes it towards the last few episodes of the season.” (Variety article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

 

-- On whether the foreshadowed death will be worth the buildup, WM: "I'm very confident it will be worth the wait. It will definitely happen towards the end of the season. I can't tell you which episode, but it's going to be a game-changer, for sure." (ComicBookResources article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

 

-- On Feb. 14, 2016, DR said that he "just found out" who's in the grave and that it'll be "very, very sad." (DR panel at Dallas ComicCon 2016, page 320 off Social Media thread)

 

-- EBR: "No matter who it is, we’ve been together for four years. The show has been going for four years, these characters are established and they know each other,” she says. “Whoever is in that grave, a part of the machine will be missing and I feel like we’ll know it as a story, we’ll know it as a show, we’ll know it as an audience, we’ll know it as a friend. it’ll be very potent and very heartfelt.” (Zap2It article, page 898 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

-- On what's happening after 415, SA: "We are really building towards our endgame after the conclusion of this episode. I feel safe to say that there is a victory of sorts within 415, but going forward — and as we learn sometimes with the show — victories aren’t always what they seem, so we have some good stuff coming up. ... We also obviously have to tie up the flash forward from the beginning of the season... That was always gonna happen in the final third of the season. We’re catching up with that timeline so that’s stuff that we’ve been dealing with recently, and it’s been some challenging times on set, but I think it’s producing good television, for sure.” (Variety article, page 32 of Spoilers thread)

Edited March 2, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

 

"It’s going to be a tearjerker at the end."

Tears of joy?

 

ETA: I'm really curious what the cast, and SA in particular, think about the death.

Edited March 2, 2016 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

I think there was a quote later that made it clear that the "It’ll feel organic and very earned. It’s actually very elegant.” line was about how they'd get rid of the Lazarus Pit. Which, to be fair, is still connected to the death, because the easy way to undo it is now gone.

 

I don't know if I'd use "elegant", but Nyssa killed the pit because of Laurel's actions, so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[tarotx]

I've been thinking about MG's tumblr response about KC wanting to leave and how that was a false rumor. Re-reading the article about how a big name comic character death isn't off limits, I think MG wants to make sure Arrow (or Marc Specifically) gets the credit of killing the real Black Canary off. I mean he is the one the made sure it was known that DC didn't order Amanda Waller dead. I'm really starting to let the spoiler Laurel in the gave set in as actually going to happen. Still can't quite let my self accept it. Even though on any other show she is the clear choice. 

http://tvline.com/2015/10/07/arrow-season-4-recap-who-died-death-oliver-felicity-proposal/

I think there was a quote later that made it clear that the "It’ll feel organic and very earned. It’s actually very elegant.” line was about how they'd get rid of the Lazarus Pit. Which, to be fair, is still connected to the death, because the easy way to undo it is now gone.

 

I don't know if I'd use "elegant", but Nyssa killed the pit because of Laurel's actions, so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Scribbles]

For LL to die in a way that feels organic and "earned", it needs to be a death that is in character.  For LL that would be rushing in on emotion and natural consequences that follow from doing so.  They have shown us repeatedly Oliver calling LL out for this.  One of my favorite scenes was LL jumping MM in an alley and him toying with her.  Her recklessness and his cool/confident condescending attitude with her was true to form for both of them.  Her secret keeping and first instinct being to lie to those close to her (see Nyssa's statements) should play into a earned death.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Thanks! I never read the TV line article before so that quote being about the death made no sense to me. Now that I did I can stop wondering what MG was trying to say, LOL

[Scribbles]

I should have added to my earlier post....Ruve killing LL in a matter of fact way would have been fitting.  She, unlike DDarhk has been presented as less talk/more action.  The problem with this is Ruve is not a "him"

[ComicFan777]

I should have added to my earlier post....Ruve killing LL in a matter of fact way would have been fitting.  She, unlike DDarhk has been presented as less talk/more action.  The problem with this is Ruve is not a "him"

 

Maybe it doesn't have to be a him who does the actual killing.  Maybe it ends up being Malcolm orchestrating/manipulating the whole murder like what he did to Thea.  Ruve or DD could end up being the instrument.

Edited March 2, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Guest]

It wouldn't surprise me if Malcolm isn't the one who does the actual killing either but I think his actions will lead up to it. They've made a point of showing how Malcolm's interference and meddling has set up a lot of bad things and Oliver has let them slide because he's Thea's family. But if his actions result in a death of someone they all care about, I think that will make them realize that he needs to be dealt with finally.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Guest

[ComicFan777]

It wouldn't surprise me if Malcolm isn't the one who does the actual killing either but I think his actions will lead up to it. They've made a point of showing how Malcolm's interference and meddling has set up a lot of bad things and Oliver has let them slide because he's Thea's family. But if his actions result in a death of someone they all care about, I think that will make them realize that he needs to be dealt with finally.

 

It is kinda strange though to think that it takes Laurel's death to make him reconsider things - I mean, what about Sara?  Granted, she is alive now, but still the action was there. 

 

[Velocity23]

I am wondering if its seeing how it affects Thea also. Laurel/Thea had a special bond (at least accordin to the show) so i could see Oliver finally being ready to kill him if Thea gives her blessing.