Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

Well isnt she technically throwing shade at Thea also. Since both Queen siblings will be jugling relationship & being a hero.

[AyChihuahua]

Well isnt she technically throwing shade at Thea also. Since both Queen siblings will be jugling relationship & being a hero.

I would be surprised if KC knew Thea was getting a love interest.  From her interviews, she really seems to focus on LL's storylines.

[apinknightmare]

Even if she did know about Thea getting a love interest, I don't think it would matter. She obviously doesn't mind being or having a love interest - she just said she would like one on the show for Laurel. She just wants people to know that she feels good not being Oliver's love interest, for reasons that I'm guessing involve her being told Laurel probably isn't going to be in that role again. 

[Chaser]

The entire quote made me mad. Throughout S3 she was still talking Oliver and Laurel as a possibility in the future. At the Con in June she was trying to get audience support. She wanted BC and to be Oliver's love interest. But now that is off the table, she degrades the position and tries to box her replacement in to every criticism. Nice move. 

 

There is no problem with a character being a love interest, the problem comes when they are just a love interest who has crappy writing.

[apinknightmare]

It doesn't bother me too much. Clearly she wanted to be back in the LI role, since she was telling people to tweet at the producers if they wanted to see Oliver and Laurel back together. It's probably disappointing that it didn't work out for her, especially since popular ships are an easy way to get some buzz and publicity if you're one of the members of said ship. I tend to give KC the benefit of the doubt, because I don't think she's very good at expressing herself. I think she's just trying to spin it in a positive way for herself, and I know that Laurel not working out the way she was initially supposed to is probably very disappointing and difficult to deal with.

 

I'm sure others won't agree with me, haha.

Edited September 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I feel like she's repeating what the execs sold her on season four, that now she's not gonna be the love interest anymore, BUT she'll get a storyline of her own. If I were an exec, that's exactly what I'd have told her.

 

And really:

 

http://topsy.com/analytics?q1=%23olicity&q2=%23lauriver&q3=lauriver&via=Topsy

 

There's no way to spin THAT, you know?

[FireFoxy]

What comforts me is that if EBR were leaving the show, the cast would've known, I think? Therefore KC wouldn't have changed her tune about Loliver

 

Yeah, I don't trust this either. They are still filming 405 or 406 so it's early, but I'm thinking more towards the end of the season.

 

Also, people need to STOP pitting KC vs. EBR. It make Felicity and Olicity fans look awful. They are both friends and care for each other. I am sure if Emily were to leave, KC would be sad about it. She seems to adore her.

[HighwayFlower]

It's funny, because I do understand she would be disappointed and it's not her fault they wrote her character so bad. I would be very sympathetic to her as a person with feelings, if she wasnt also so terribly snotty and off putting in her media interviews. Instead of just disliking Laurel, I also now dislike KC.

[apinknightmare]

I think that sometimes people look for things to pick at with KC, and do a little bit of reaching as far as what she says and does-we saw some of that this past weekend. And I'm talking about the fandom in general, not necessarily anyone here.

I think that she's always going to be in a no-win situation with some people. I mean, the other day she said that Laurel and Oliver probably won't ever be together again, which is something people have been waiting for her to admit to, but because she made a comment about Laurel not needing to be a love interest, she's getting criticized. She would've been criticized if she had said that O/L still had a chance. She even said that Laurel was supportive of Olicity (or something along those lines). I just...IDK. Picking apart what she says is just counterproductive and exhausting at this point. I mean, everyone can like or dislike who they want, JMO.

[dtissagirl]

I honestly think that if EBR wanted to leave , it's more likely that the WB would find some extra money to offer her so she'd stay, even in a reduced episode capacity, rather than sign off on killing Felicity. They'd Han Solo her before they'd kill her.

[Smoaking Reporter]

I'm just wondering when the "Felicity's going to die" panic is going to stop. Probably never. It happens every season. I don't think she's dying at all although I can see why people think so after hearing DD say "where he lives, who he loves" in the promo. I still think she's safe though.

FireFoxy: I was with you until you claimed that it's only Felicity/Olicity fans that pit EBR/KC against each other. WTBS, I wish it would stop but it's probably not so I just ignore/dismiss those that do.

Edited September 11, 2015 by SmoakingLove

[Smoaking Reporter]

I think that sometimes people look for things to pick at with KC, and do a little bit of reaching as far as what she says and does-we saw some of that this past weekend. And I'm talking about the fandom in general, not necessarily anyone here.

I think that she's always going to be in a no-win situation with some people. I mean, the other day she said that Laurel and Oliver probably won't ever be together again, which is something people have been waiting for her to admit to, but because she made a comment about Laurel not needing to be a love interest, she's getting criticized. She would've been criticized if she had said that O/L still had a chance. She even said that Laurel was supportive of Olicity (or something along those lines). I just...IDK. Picking apart what she says is just counterproductive and exhausting at this point. I mean, everyone can like or dislike who they want, JMO.

Yea. I had to log off Twitter because it was awful. It wasn't that serious IMO. The same thing happened during Dragon Con. Her words & basically everything she did was picked apart & twisted. I was exhausted just reading the reaction tweets.

[Primal Slayer]

I love Katie, i doubt was trying to shade anyone. It's been 6 months-year? Since she wanted Lauriver to happen again? She is allowed to change her mind just as the producers went from saying that those two were the Lois&Clark of the show. In the middle of s2 nonetheless. Now they sing a very different tune. Does that mean they are shading Katie or getting hate for it?

I think sometimes people look way to much into things just like the people who were trying to make her look like satan at dragoncon.

A lot of people try to say that she hates EBR which is false as hell, they vacation together, or that Amell doesn't like her when clearly he adores her.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[apinknightmare]

Nah, she was asking people to tweet at the producers if they wanted O/L back together a couple of months ago.

[HighwayFlower]

I will agree that I am now predisposed to dislike her, but it didn't start that way. I had no knowledge of her before Arrow. Season one, I found her boring and didn't like her character, but didn't hate KC. It was her interviews that made me dislike her as a person, and now it is a lot harder for me to separate Laurel and KC.

Edited to say, I did get the impression that Steven didn't like her at first, but they seem to have a much better relationship now. (Based on how they act at cons)

Edited September 11, 2015 by HighwayFlower

[Reba]

My concern from the trailer is the return of whiny and pre-island Oliver. Did anyone else think it sounded like pre-island Oliver when he says "the only things I brought back from the island are pain, suffering and darkness". I think I am in the dark!Oliver is better camp.

[Primal Slayer]

It certainly wasn't in the last 3 months i believe. Even if it was, the show has started production again which could have made her value being independent.

[dtissagirl]

My concern from the trailer is the return of whiny and pre-island Oliver. Did anyone else think it sounded like pre-island Oliver when he says "the only things I brought back from the island are pain, suffering and darkness". I think I am in the dark!Oliver is better camp.

 

I think that's a typical Act I line -- he really doesn't know how to be a vigilante/hero without doing the broody I AM DARKNESS I AM THE NIGHT stuff -- but I think the theme of the season, and one of the things driving his relationship with Felicity is learning he CAN be the Green Arrow without the manpain.

Edited September 11, 2015 by dtissagirl

[apinknightmare]

It certainly wasn't in the last 3 months i believe. Even if it was, the show has started production again which could have made her value being independent.

 

Okay...it doesn't really matter if it was two or three months ago. It was at some point over the summer. And I'm pretty sure the reason she's valuing Laurel being independent of Oliver was because she was told it wasn't going to happen again, hence her changing her tune about it in these recent interviews. 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm just saying she isn't going: yesterday-laurel needs to be with Oliver, today: no, she is good on her own.

She may very well have changed her tune due what the producers have told her, maybe not. But it isn't something people should jump on her for when they would see red either way.

[Morrigan2575]

LOL at the Freudian slip.

Hahah Ooops

[apinknightmare]

I'm just saying she isn't going: yesterday-laurel needs to be with Oliver, today: no, she is good on her own.

 

 

I never said that she was? You wrote that it had been six months to a year since she had wanted Oliver/Laurel together, and no, it's been more recent than that. So, for us, people who only get to hear what she has to say about it when she's asked, it did go from "Tweet the producers if you'd like to see O/L together," to "That's probably not going to happen again." It's natural to speculate about why, I just don't think (or, honestly, don't care if) she was shading anyone when she was talking about Laurel not being a love interest. I just personally don't care about Laurel or Katie Cassidy enough to try to criticize it. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

I think that sometimes people look for things to pick at with KC, and do a little bit of reaching as far as what she says and does-we saw some of that this past weekend. And I'm talking about the fandom in general, not necessarily anyone here.

I think that she's always going to be in a no-win situation with some people. I mean, the other day she said that Laurel and Oliver probably won't ever be together again, which is something people have been waiting for her to admit to, but because she made a comment about Laurel not needing to be a love interest, she's getting criticized. She would've been criticized if she had said that O/L still had a chance. She even said that Laurel was supportive of Olicity (or something along those lines). I just...IDK. Picking apart what she says is just counterproductive and exhausting at this point. I mean, everyone can like or dislike who they want, JMO.

I think I should clarify. I wanted her to say Laurel was more than a love interest and had value outside of Oliver from the very start. But she didn't. She kept trying to sale Oliver and Laurel the Soulmates Tale. It's frustrating for me to finally get that from her only when it isn't hers anymore. And then to use wording that has been thrown negatively, and frankly unfairly at times, to EBR about Felicity....it gets too me. But I will admit to my own bias.

 

I agree that people look too much into what KC says and can unfairly target her. It seemed a bigger problem at Dragon Con.

[KenyaJ]

His DragonCon response does look a little ridiculous right now, but it might not be for what they've filmed thus far. I feel like Stephen tends to answer questions from a place of where he's at with Oliver vs. what we all know. I think once Oliver does get his shit together re: balancing Oliver and GA, that's definitely when he'll attempt to pop the question again.

 

I don't think the trailer makes his response look bad. He doesn't actually end up asking Felicity to marry him. At the end of 401, I'm sure he'll have a realization that he needs to pump the brakes on his original plan and torture us for the rest of the season wondering when he'll be ready again. So what he said about Oliver asking "when he gets his shit together" sounds appropriate to me. And I'm sure the "spoiler" he alluded to was the fact that Oliver wanted to pop the question right fucking now, LOL, but got ringblocked.

Edited September 11, 2015 by KenyaJ

[apinknightmare]

I think I should clarify. I wanted her to say Laurel was more than a love interest and had value outside of Oliver from the very start. But she didn't. She kept trying to sale Oliver and Laurel the Soulmates Tale. It's frustrating for me to finally get that from her only when it isn't hers anymore. And then to use wording that has been thrown negatively, and frankly unfairly at times, to EBR about Felicity....it gets too me. But I will admit to my own bias.

 

I agree that people look too much into what KC says and can unfairly target her. It seemed a bigger problem at Dragon Con.

 

Ah, I got ya. And yeah, that makes sense. 

[lemotomato]

It certainly wasn't in the last 3 months i believe. Even if it was, the show has started production again which could have made her value being independent.

She talked about how much she liked kissing SA and told her audience to ask producers for L/O at the Philly Wizard World in May (4 months ago). By then they had already aired the Olicity sex scene and filmed them driving off into the sunset. Not sure why she would need another couple months to really believe that L/O was highly unlikely to happen. Edited September 11, 2015 by lemotomato

[BunsenBurner]

After watching the promos for Season 4 many times and reading the wonderful comments by many of you I want to add my thoughts to the discussion.

 

But first a Flashback:

 

Remember the end of S3E23? No not Oliver and Felicity driving off into the sunset! The mea culpa by Guggie begging us to come back for S4 that I'm sure the BIGS of all the entities that own ARROW told him to do.  S3 sucked and they all knew it.  They were already trying to bring the multitude of fans who hated Season 3 back into the fold. They had already said yes to S4 but could see the storyline ruined S3 and that they had angered many comic and non comic book fans. They needed a revamp.

 

Present Day:

 

They show that O/F are happy, extremely happy and O wants to propose.  If Guggie learned his lesson then he will reduce the darkness of S4.  After all, O should be doing better, it's S4. He should have grown, psychologically and emotionally, by now. He's had a 5 month mental health break and lots of sex and has figured out he does want a life with F.

 

I hope that Guggie & Co. were told by the BIGS that they need to make O more intelligent rather than less.  That has never made sense since S2.

 

They have heard plenty about the boring stunts so want more and better.  

 

If the A.T.O.M. suit really did cost $180,000 that's a large chunk of money for something that essentially did nothing for the ARROW show. There are always exceptions of course, F saving O at the send of S3 was a result of that suit but something much cheaper could have been just as spectacular without the cost of the suit or RP for all those episodes.

 

Another thing that has to be fixed is the stupidity of OQ signing over the company to IR. It was asinine that the Queen's lost their trust funds as well as their company, not going to happen in the real world, totally unbelievable. They are fixing this by giving the company to F which will give them back the money and the means to build another hub for TA  and keep it running.  I realize this was in S3 but I truly believe that was added. Renaming the company Queen Inc. will hopefully be a result of the marriage of both O/F at some point in the future.

 

In other words, Guggie & Co. have to Right the Wrongs that they wrote in the last 2 seasons.

 

So what IMO are these promos saying?

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE COME BACK

We know we screwed up and we are doing what we can to fix it. Hopefully research shows this.)

PLEASE COME BACK, WE ARE TRYING TO DO BETTER.

 

This is just something I want to believe. I don't trust Guggie and I really want to see a better ARROW but I'm not sure they can achieve that. I HOPE i'm wrong.

[Coop33]

I don't think the trailer makes his response look bad. He doesn't actually end up asking Felicity to marry him. At the end of 401, I'm sure he'll have a realization that he needs to pump the brakes on his original plan and torture us for the rest of the season wondering when he'll be ready again. So what he said about Oliver asking "when he gets his shit together" sounds appropriate to me. And I'm sure the "spoiler" he alluded to was the fact that Oliver wanted to pop the question right fucking now, LOL, but got ringblocked.

Agreed. I wasn't trying to say his response made him look bad, just that it probably makes more sense from where he is in the story vs. where we are. 

[NumberCruncher]

So what IMO are these promos saying?

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE COME BACK

We know we screwed up and we are doing what we can to fix it. Hopefully research shows this.)

PLEASE COME BACK, WE ARE TRYING TO DO BETTER.

 

This is just something I want to believe. I don't trust Guggie and I really want to see a better ARROW but I'm not sure they can achieve that. I HOPE i'm wrong.

I think it's probably more the case that the network is pulling out all of the stops with the promos because they knew that S3 wasn't well-received (despite the ratings). MG insists that S3 was his best season yet so I think the delusion is alive and well with him. Meanwhile The CW is over here throwing puppies and rainbows at viewers hoping that they'll come back. It's really quite hilarious to watch.

[wonderwall]

Yeah, I don't trust this either. They are still filming 405 or 406 so it's early, but I'm thinking more towards the end of the season.

 

Also, people need to STOP pitting KC vs. EBR. It make Felicity and Olicity fans look awful. They are both friends and care for each other. I am sure if Emily were to leave, KC would be sad about it. She seems to adore her.

 

I wasn't trying to pit them together? Let's be real, fact of the matter is that if EBR were leaving, KC would've still been talking about how there's still a chance between LL and OQ just like in season 3? It's not like this means that KC would be happy to see EBR leave???

 

Regardless I don't want to get into this argument. It's bound to get messy and tbh I don't care enough about KC to talk about this further. 

[jay741982]

Ugh apparently it's gonna fun wondering this season if Oliver and Felicity will stay together or Break up! "Slams head on Desk" NO UNNECESSARY ANGST FOR THE LOVE OF GOD_

[catrox14]

 

Ugh apparently it's gonna fun wondering this season if Oliver and Felicity will stay together or Break up! "Slams head on Desk" NO UNNECESSARY ANGST FOR THE LOVE OF GOD_

 

Where are you getting that from?

[Starfish35]

It's from the TVInsider interview posted in the Spoilers thread.

the producers plan to “explore the nature of their relationship as a couple and we have no desire to break them up before [that]...one of the fun parts of the season is the will they stay together or break up.”

[dtissagirl]

I just can't read anything into that. What else could Guggie say? "Mwahaha we're breaking them up asap lol suckerzzz" or "they're never ever ever ever breaking up whoohoo endgame" are too spoilery. So he fed a line that might rile people up. Because he's Guggie.

[jay741982]

Where are you getting that from?

Latest entry in Spoliers only section

I just can't read anything into that. What else could Guggie say? "Mwahaha we're breaking them up asap lol suckerzzz" or "they're never ever ever ever breaking up whoohoo endgame" are too spoilery. So he fed a line that might rile people up. Because he's Guggie.

Yeah I realized that Stay Trolly Uncle Guggie LOL

[catrox14]

Thanks.  Egads.  I think he's trying to spin things since the proposal was spoiled.  He's a dipshit.

[calliope1975]

I don't think the trailer makes his response look bad. He doesn't actually end up asking Felicity to marry him. 

 

Plus, we've been told repeatedly by MG that the show has no control over what's put in the promos. Right? If so, I can see the actors and other crew wanting to keep spoilers to surprise the audience, and then bam! Canada shows some smooching. 

[Guest]

So what IMO are these promos saying?

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE COME BACK

We know we screwed up and we are doing what we can to fix it. Hopefully research shows this.)

PLEASE COME BACK, WE ARE TRYING TO DO BETTER.

 

This is just something I want to believe. I don't trust Guggie and I really want to see a better ARROW but I'm not sure they can achieve that. I HOPE i'm wrong.

 

IMO, the fact that one of the first things they're doing is resurrecting Sara tells me they know exactly what their biggest mistake was. Or at least one of them. But good writing for characters and not for plot remains to be seen. I'm cautiously hopeful though, which is weird. LOL.

[Guest]

the producers plan to “explore the nature of their relationship as a couple and we have no desire to break them up before [that]...one of the fun parts of the season is the will they stay together or break up.”

 

That just sounds like classic MG spin, same as last year. Meh.

[SmallScreenDiva]

It's possible. DD does have a confrontation with Anarky in one of the promos. Maybe DD brought him back or healed him using the stolen LP water.

 

I'm really starting to wonder just how much water DD stole from Nanda Parbat. Like, did he reroute an underground spring? Or did he park several pumper trucks outside the fortress? I mean, if he's lived as long as Ra's that's gotta mean a whole lot of water since Ra's used his for water lounging :P

 

Funny - yet he released the first trailer on his own FB page. If it makes him feel better, when it aired on TV last night - they cut out the ring part. So maybe they are playing both sides of the game. Honestly I think he's just crying sour grapes because his DragonCon response looks a little ridiculous now. I enjoy SA, but sometimes he can be a little boy temperamental, and this is just his latest tantrum.

 

Yeah, my second thought as soon as I recovered somewhat from that shot of the ring in the souffle was, "Oh Stephen is gonna lose his (mind)." He was very upset when the Olicity kiss was spoiled last year and this seems to be an even bigger deal. I don't think it has anything to do with the latest trailer one-upping the one he debuted on his page. I think it's legitimately about showing too much. And I do agree with him. I was fine with the souffle spoiler, but the ring was a little too much. Would have wanted to have seen that on Oct. 7. I mean, Twitter did go nuts but can you imagine what the response would have been like during the premiere when more people would actually be watching the show together?!?!  As for his DragonCon response, I actually find it hilarious because I think the dude nearly spoiled it himself. He said, "I can't answer that without -- I can't answer that."

[BunsenBurner]

IMO, the fact that one of the first things they're doing is resurrecting Sara tells me they know exactly what their biggest mistake was. Or at least one of them. But good writing for characters and not for plot remains to be seen. I'm cautiously hopeful though, which is weird. LOL.

I just plain forgot to mention Sara because losing her in S3E1 was their biggest miscalculation to date. Our biggest loss since she was in sync with GA in their fighting and could do her own stunts and we are not getting her back. Another reason to not return to ARROW.

[EmeraldArcher]

That just sounds like classic MG spin, same as last year. Meh.

I'm putting all of my faith in all of you who are CERTAIN MG is just trolling. I can't handle this emotional roller coaster! ;-). I'm so far gone...

[Primal Slayer]

The writers just found a way to have their cake and eat it to with Sara/Laurel. They needed characters for LoT, there were only so many females to choose from (as in like 1) so why not bring back a character that they liked and ship her to the new show.

[Reba]

I think that's a typical Act I line -- he really doesn't know how to be a vigilante/hero without doing the broody I AM DARKNESS I AM THE NIGHT stuff -- but I think the theme of the season, and one of the things driving his relationship with Felicity is learning he CAN be the Green Arrow without the manpain.

Yeah the words certainly say that and I expect that is what they are going for. I am more talking about the tone of SA's voice. When he plays flashback Oliver his voice is higher pitched. And that clip just brought me to "mom I got a girl pregnant" version of Oliver, based on just the sound of his voice.

[Guest]

Is anyone else wondering why O/F come back to Star City in a limo? What happened to the porsche? Starting to wonder if a limo is sent for Felicity by PT.

 

 

I'm putting all of my faith in all of you who are CERTAIN MG is just trolling. I can't handle this emotional roller coaster! ;-). I'm so far gone...

 

Haha. Well, I'm not saying there's no chance of O/F breaking up. I think it's slim, especially as we've seen a ring already. I do think there will be ups and downs. And if they do break up I don't think it would be for long. But that really did sound exactly like something MG said last year, except it was less about whether or not they'll break up and more about whether or not they'll get together. So...

[apinknightmare]

Is anyone else wondering why O/F come back to Star City in a limo? What happened to the porsche? Starting to wonder if a limo is sent for Felicity by PT.

 

I was thinking it might be because Coast City (or whoever they are) is far enough away from Starling that they couldn't easily drive back in the timeframe the team needed them in? I doubt we'll ever know, haha.

Edited September 12, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

I was thinking it might be because Coast City (or whoever they are) is far enough away from Starling that they couldn't easily drive back in the timeframe the team needed them in? I doubt we'll ever know, haha.

 

Oh, that's a good point. But still, a limo? Seems kind of random. Yeah, I guess it'll just be one of those things we just accept.

[Primal Slayer]

Is anyone else wondering why O/F come back to Star City in a limo? What happened to the porsche? Starting to wonder if a limo is sent for Felicity by PT.

 

 

I was wondering that as well. Will they even have Felicity know about PT at this point? Is this where all the money is coming from? 

[wonderwall]

I was wondering that as well. Will they even have Felicity know about PT at this point? Is this where all the money is coming from? 

I'm guessing Felicity bankrolled their entire vacation because she saved all of her earnings from Palmer Tech? IDK how much she got in her year of working there... But it certainly couldn't have been more than 500k base salary? Maybe Felicity had a huge bonus? IDK

 

I'm guessing the limo was because of PT and she learns about her position which is another reason why they go back? I hope that's the case

[Guest]

I was wondering that as well. Will they even have Felicity know about PT at this point? Is this where all the money is coming from? 

 

I wondered if PT maybe sent Felicity a limo to bring her back to be CEO. I don't know if she'd know about her new position at this point. I'm a bit confused as to how that's going to work. Because presumably, if she knew Ray had died, wouldn't she have gone back to Starling for his funeral? And surely she would have found out she was CEO not long after. 5 months later seems a bit strange. Maybe she already knows and has had someone else in charge? I just don't know.

 

As for the money, I imagine Felicity was on a pretty good salary as VP last season and Oliver isn't exactly broke broke.