Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

I have a feeling this episode is going to require an immediate rewatch. 

 

For science. 

[apinknightmare]

Oliver joining the League has huge consequences for Nyssa (Katrina Law), particularly when the organization sets its sights on her in the April 29 episode. Luckily, Nyssa will have the protection of Laurel (Katie Cassidy)

LMAO

[looptab]

^Lucky Nyssa ahahahh

[statsgirl]

There are a ton of spoilers, especially as Felicity being strong and "sassy".  I'm going to be optimistic and see that as a reaction to all the complaints about Felicity this season whiny, crying all the time and especially being a doormat to Ray which I think is the opposite of that they thought they were writing.  I read AK talking about how strong Felicity is and what a good option Ray is, and i think "what show are you watching?"

 

I concede that Felicity's always stood up to Oliver, and I love and appreciate that trait. I know this is crazy talk, but maybe, just maybe, we could have seen a Ray-less Felicity this year, and it could have been more clear that she was developing outside of romantic relationships. As it is, that's not what I saw on my screen. I really hope these next few episodes allow Felicity to have a point of view and talk about her feelings instead of being told how she feels all the time. 

Yep.

 

I get the feeling that these are the course-correction episodes and they really want people not to give up on the show yet.  Ratings have been good but also a lot of people have been writing or tweeting that they're not happy about the show and ready to give up on it. 

 

Or maybe it's just Felicity's turn since so much of the promotion has been about Laurel, Ray and Ra's this season.

 

 

"There's a real trinity formed between Laurel, Diggle (David Ramsey) and Felicity. And they're all sort of leaning on each other and they're processing things in different ways," Guggenheim said.

Oh Marc, you never stop trying to make Laurel relevant, do you?

Edited April 21, 2015 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

"There's a real trinity formed between Laurel, Diggle (David Ramsey) and Felicity. And they're all sort of leaning on each other and they're processing things in different ways,"

 

Sigh, they're really going to force Laurel into the Arrowcave now that Roy is gone aren't they?

 

Laurel distracts herself by trying to save Starling City

 

This is not the motivation I like to see. So far Laurel's motivations have been to quench the fire inside of her (ironic statement, I get it), a distraction, and to honor her sister (one that could've had traction but overall in the execution doesn't make sense anymore especially considering Sara would NOT have approved)

Edited April 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oliver joining the League has huge consequences for Nyssa (Katrina Law), particularly when the organization sets its sights on her in the April 29 episode. Luckily, Nyssa will have the protection of Laurel (Katie Cassidy), as well as the remaining members of Team Arrow.

 

 

Forever laughing.

 

So sad that I can't watch this one live...probably won't be able to watch for several hours, actually.  That's OK, I'll just fast-forward the DVR to the part I want to see and watch that first.  Then it's back to the normal routine of checking comments before I even think of watching.

Edited April 21, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[apinknightmare]

I'm curious about the "you won't believe how it ends," hookup spoiler. I mean...I hope they both get a happy ending.

Seriously though, what's the deal with MG saying the ILY and sex was deliberately held back. Is it going to be the last good memory Oliver has and that's what will bring him back from his trip to the dark side, or is this some other kind of gotcha (I can't imagine how or why it would be, but I don't trust any of these people).

[wonderwall]

I'm curious about the "you won't believe how it ends," hookup spoiler. I mean...I hope they both get a happy ending.

Seriously though, what's the deal with MG saying the ILY and sex was deliberately held back. Is it going to be the last good memory Oliver has and that's what will bring him back from his trip to the dark side, or is this some other kind of gotcha (I can't imagine how or why it would be, but I don't trust any of these people).

 

Maybe they'll bring up the fact that Felicity has abandonment issues? Or at least I hope Felicity tells Oliver or someone why it took her so long to tell Oliver she loves him? This is my best case scenario

[looptab]

It's funny how people have been clamoring for the Team Arrow Trinity and they once again have to remove Oliver and put Laurel there. Like, stop trolling, FFS!

[apinknightmare]

Maybe they'll bring up the fact that Felicity has abandonment issues? Or at least I hope Felicity tells Oliver or someone why it took her so long to tell Oliver she loves him? This is my best case scenario

Yeah, hopefully it's something like that.

[BkWurm1]

.

Team Arrow will soldier on: What is Team Arrow anymore? That is one of the questions the group will struggle with after losing Oliver and Roy. "There's a real trinity formed between Laurel, Diggle (David Ramsey) and Felicity. And they're all sort of leaning on each other and they're processing things in different ways," Guggenheim said. While Laurel distracts herself by trying to save Starling City and Felicity struggles with her grief over Oliver's departure, the April 29 episode will "really [upend] Diggle's world, certainly vis-a-vis Oliver," Guggenheim said. "That's something that will certainly have repercussions in the remainder of the season."

 

If Dig doesn't go out into the field, so help me Larry!

 

What happened to Ray?   They aren't seriously going put Laurel out there alone?  That's all kinds of absurd. 

[NoWayOut]

Wasn't there a spoiler about how we'll finally know why it took Felicity so long to tell Oliver she loves him?

 

 

"While Laurel distracts herself by trying to save Starling City and Felicity struggles with her grief over Oliver's departure"

 

Isn't this a repeat of what happened when Oliver got kicked off a mountain and "died"? I hope we'll see Felicity do more than just grief.

[Soulfire]

Is it going to be the last good memory Oliver has and that's what will bring him back from his trip to the dark side, or is this some other kind of gotcha (I can't imagine how or why it would be, but I don't trust any of these people).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they did exactly something like this. Felicity's I love you to Oliver being Arrow's version of True Love's First Kiss. Once Oliver's darkside, Felicity and her I love you will be the magic that undoes the mindspell. It's just fantastic enough to sound up Arrow's alley. 

[wonderwall]

Wasn't there a spoiler about how we'll finally know why it took Felicity so long to tell Oliver she loves him?

Isn't this a repeat of what happened when Oliver got kicked off a mountain and "died"? I hope we'll see Felicity do more than just grief.

 

I think someone tweeted that? IDK but I really hope so.

 

Also yeah, I don't want Felicity to just grieve Oliver. I want her to take action, do something. I mean I wouldn't mind seeing her grieve after seeing evil!Oliver, but yeah, I need to see her do more than that.

[statsgirl]

 

Seriously though, what's the deal with MG saying the ILY and sex was deliberately held back.

Because they thought it wouldn't be a problem, that the audience would "know" that Felicity loved Oliver and we'd all get lost in the angst of them being apart so they could leave the ILU till sweeps.  Another backfire because many people thought that Felicity didn't love Oliver or thought her shallow for being with Ray.

 

The stated reason may have something to do with Felicity's fear of abandonment although that doesn't really make sense at this point given how comfortable she seemed in the he relationship with Ray.  I'm just glad he breaks up with her before she goes off with Oliver though.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they did exactly something like this. Felicity's I love you to Oliver being Arrow's version of True Love's First Kiss. Once Oliver's darkside, Felicity and her I love you will be the magic that undoes the mindspell. It's just fantastic enough to sound up Arrow's alley. 

I'd laugh and laugh.  It seems so preteen girlish, which something I swear these guys are.

 

 

"really [upend] Diggle's world, certainly vis-a-vis Oliver,"

So this is when Oliver goes evil and does the thing that changes their relationship forever.

 

I can't stop laughing at Laurel drowning her sorrows in saving Starling City. At least it's better than a bottle or pills.

[SleepDeprived]

I don't think Roy or Thea have said it, but I do believe they love each other.  But when you talk about running away with someone a lot, it isn't that much of a leap to go to elopement in my opinion.

 

Actually, Roy told Thea that he loved her way back in "Unthinkable." I remember because I thought it was a great parallel that all the TA boys told their significant others that they loved them in back-to-back scenes in that same episode.

 

I'm curious about the "you won't believe how it ends," hookup spoiler. I mean...I hope they both get a happy ending.

Seriously though, what's the deal with MG saying the ILY and sex was deliberately held back. Is it going to be the last good memory Oliver has and that's what will bring him back from his trip to the dark side, or is this some other kind of gotcha (I can't imagine how or why it would be, but I don't trust any of these people).

 

Bet they get several since there's going to be a morning after so... Allll night looonngg. ;) But yeah, the ILY is probably what brings Oliver back from the dark side. The episode after Oliver/Al Sah-Him as the VOTW is, after all, titled "This is Your Sword," about how love transforms and such and such.

 

I wonder if that clip of Oliver saying he was "Al-Sah-Him, Warith al Ghul, Heir to the Demon, and you will obey" is from 3x21 and not tomorrow's episode? Who's he  saying it to? Fellow LOAers or Nyssa/Diggle/Felicity?

[Sunshine]

Funny thing about Felicity's ILY and the Olicity hook-up though - it isn't happening during sweeps.

[wonderwall]

Funny thing about Felicity's ILY and the Olicity hook-up though - it isn't happening during sweeps.

Yeah what's happening during sweeps is Laurel... smh I just don't get it

[Chaser]

Love the Nyssa has Laurel for protection. Does the episode description say that Laurel goes to Diggle and Felicity for help with Nyssa? Way to pass the buck.

[NoWayOut]

I think someone tweeted that? IDK but I really hope so.

 

Also yeah, I don't want Felicity to just grieve Oliver. I want her to take action, do something. I mean I wouldn't mind seeing her grieve after seeing evil!Oliver, but yeah, I need to see her do more than that.

 

I'm slightly more hopeful now that I remember that she's possibly cooking up a plan.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah what's happening during sweeps is Laurel... smh I just don't get it

I wonder if they just couldn't hold it off one more ep to make it fit with the rest of their story?

Maybe there's something else coming up for them during sweeps.

Also, I'm really worried about what's going to happen with Oliver and Diggle in next week's ep. Ugh.

Edited April 21, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

I wanna make a bet that we'll get Ray finally figuring out that Oliver is the friend that was "more than a friend". I mean it only took him months to put it all together. Unless he forgot that she was so depressed and grieving in Jan/Feb when he started really putting on the moves. Bet he uses that and the shoulder lean from last episode as his rationales for breaking up with Felicity. I bet the writers will strip a little bit more of FS's agency and have RP be the one to tell her that she is in love with OQ. Score more points if he mentions Jello during the break-up.

[jay741982]

I wonder if they just couldn't hold it off one more ep to make it fit with the rest of their story?

Maybe there's something else coming up for them during sweeps.

Also, I'm really worried about what's going to happen with Oliver and Diggle in next week's ep. Ugh.

I think what breaks Oliver out of his mind spell will be Felicity telling him that she loves him again. Maybe we will get more Olicity Sexy times in 323 before the seasons end

[Chaser]

I find it more interesting that they are promoting this episode like its the beginning of Sweeps. The press screening, the interviewers and the spoilers all remind me of The Calm. I think story wise they couldn't hold it off any longer so they are hoping the promotion will carry thru to the next episode because I doubt they are going to repeat this for the next episode.

 

I'm sure there is more Olicity to come. 3x22 (Given that song) and 3x23 (the Finale) for sure. 

 

I don't know what I'm feeling about the next episode tho. Not here for Nyssa and Laurel bonding, but I do want Felicity and Diggle. Worried about Diggle and Oliver.

[Belinea]

Oliver will probably threaten Diggle's family in some way. Weren't there BTS pics of the baby? So Oliver will go after Diggle and his family and Diggle cannot forgive him for that. Maybe Felicity will get Oliver to snap out of it. 

 

Laurel's story is still not interesting to me. She still feel connect to the rest. Wasn't that one of the reasons she found out? So that she could have a better connection to the main storyline. Her storylines still feel less important. Sometimes the whole episode works just fine without her there. 

[looptab]

Funny thing about Felicity's ILY and the Olicity hook-up though - it isn't happening during sweeps.

 

I was wondering a few pages back whether maybe it was Arrow's scheduling, and not The Flash's that got shuffled? Maybe the CW had them air new episodes a week earlier and this episode was actually meant for sweeps?IDK

Love the Nyssa has Laurel for protection. Does the episode description say that Laurel goes to Diggle and Felicity for help with Nyssa? Way to pass the buck.

Well to be fair, the remainig members of TA also get a mention in passing. It just makes me laugh :)

[kismet]

Funny thing about Felicity's ILY and the Olicity hook-up though - it isn't happening during sweeps.

It should have happened months ago, so Im not worried that its not happening in sweeps. Let's just be grateful its finally happening. :) That just means they hopefully they have something bigger & better planned for sweeps.

[Sunshine]

I wonder if they just couldn't hold it off one more ep to make it fit with the rest of their story?

Maybe there's something else coming up for them during sweeps.

Also, I'm really worried about what's going to happen with Oliver and Diggle in next week's ep. Ugh.

More than possible.

Could give the wedding and marriage some credibility.**

My biggest concern - Diggle was why I stayed with Arrow after the pilot. I really don't know how I am going to deal with these 2 being at odds with each other into S4.

**They haven't released the episode description for 3.22 yet have they? Maybe it is Oliver/LOA random and they don't want to distract from 3.20 buzz.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Sunshine

[Soulfire]

Didn't @quarks post a break down about how whenever - or at least in most cases - there were positive movements on the Oliver and Felicity front, ratings went up for the episode the week after? Maybe that's what they're hoping for here. A big Olicity episode to bring the audience with them into sweeps.

[HighHopes]

I wonder if they just couldn't hold it off one more ep to make it fit with the rest of their story?

Maybe there's something else coming up for them during sweeps.

Also, I'm really worried about what's going to happen with Oliver and Diggle in next week's ep. Ugh.

 

At the Calgary Expo, Stephen Amell talked about how he was worried that when he read the script for 3x21 the show was going to have Oliver do things that they couldn't undo. And that when something like that happens he works hard to do the reverse math to see if they can come out of it, and that if it was a ruse that it could eventually be explained. 

 

I find it more interesting that they are promoting this episode like its the beginning of Sweeps. The press screening, the interviewers and the spoilers all remind me of The Calm. I think story wise they couldn't hold it off any longer so they are hoping the promotion will carry thru to the next episode because I doubt they are going to repeat this for the next episode.

 

I'm sure there is more Olicity to come. 3x22 (Given that song) and 3x23 (the Finale) for sure. 

 

I always thought that they moved up this episode in the schedule, and that we were originally supposed to have 2 week break like The Flash instead of the one week break. So that this week's episode would have been the first episode for sweeps. But I'm wondering where are all of the EBR interviews? Unless they are saving them for another week or the finale? I do hope we get them though because EBR really does seem to get her character better than the show runners and I always enjoy reading her take on Felicity. 

[writersblock51]

Forever laugh-cringing at the

 

 

Nyssa will have the protection of Laurel

 

crap. Just... wow.

 

Otherwise, pretty much everything else from the Olicity and LoA stuff tomorrow night to even Roy and LP'd Thea and everything with Felicity and Diggle sounds great.

 

The only stuff that I'm meh about it is the Hong Kong stuff. I hope the final episodes come up strong in the flashback world - this season has been lackluster for me there.

 

Edited April 21, 2015 by writersblock51

[apinknightmare]

At the Calgary Expo, Stephen Amell talked about how he was worried that when he read the script for 3x21 the show was going to have Oliver do things that they couldn't undo. And that when something like that happens he works hard to do the reverse math to see if they can come out of it, and that if it was a ruse that it could eventually be explained.

Well, that doesn't make me feel very good, haha.

[calliope1975]

Love the Nyssa has Laurel for protection. Does the episode description say that Laurel goes to Diggle and Felicity for help with Nyssa? Way to pass the buck.

 

Is Nyssa mortally wounded? Because she can kick Laurel, Felicity, and Diggle's ass ten times over. It's always good to have backup, but I can't see how using Laurel as protection wouldn't lead to certain death.

 

I know it's been spoiled to the high heavens, but we aren't getting an ILY from Felicity in 320? If not, I bet they are saving it to be the key to breaking Evil Oliver out of his funk. I am both rolling my eyes and having a tiny shipper, cliched squeal because it's so lame it might actually turn around and become fun.

 

It probably won't be for eons, but I can't wait until we get rid of the antiquated Nielsen system. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by calliope1975

[apinknightmare]

They ILY was spoiled in one of the promos.

[tarotx]

Diggle's world is going to be Upended and Oliver does things SA wondered if they could come back from? Oh I'm sooo looking forward to that...not!

[Password]

Yeah I'm getting worried now about what Oliver will do. If Oliver is brainwashed, will Digg hold him entirely accountable? Will Digg know he was brainwashed? What was the point of this ridiculous Ra's Ollie Ghul plot?

Laurel, Felicity and Digg is genuinely making my eye twitch. They come up with a great plan to get Roy cleared, but don't even try for Oliver?

I really hope I don't throw things at my screen for that episode. One of the people who watched the episode said the team don't say goodbye, not really. So does that mean they hope/think this gig is temporary?

[catrox14]

The only kind of protection Laurel can offer Nyssa is legally.  And even that is laughable. My gods...the propping is still going on. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm sure there's a plan for Oliver. I'm just worried about whether the awful stuff is part of it or not.

[Sunshine]

Didn't @quarks post a break down about how whenever - or at least in most cases - there were positive movements on the Oliver and Felicity front, ratings went up for the episode the week after? Maybe that's what they're hoping for here. A big Olicity episode to bring the audience with them into sweeps.

I thought about this when I posted about it not being sweeps yet. Makes me wonder what's happening in the final 3 episodes that hasn't been spoiled yet.

[SleepDeprived]

For one, Thea’s descent into the Lazarus Pit does yield unexpected results and no one is sure what to make of it.

 

What do they mean unexpected results that no one is sure what to make of? Unexpected for them or for the audience? Does she develop other-worldly powers or something? I thought Malcolm is telling everyone that the Pit changes a person (in their SOUL!), which is why he's not really keen on Thea taking a dip in the magical tub? And I'm sure Ra's already knows the Pit can make a person cray-cray. I would think that they should, at least, be a little bit prepared for dealing with a crazy Thea after she gets revived.

 

Oliver will probably threaten Diggle's family in some way. Weren't there BTS pics of the baby? So Oliver will go after Diggle and his family and Diggle cannot forgive him for that. Maybe Felicity will get Oliver to snap out of it.

 

There are BTS pics of Baby Sara for the finale run of episodes? I thought no one even knew whether or not Audrey Marie Anderson will be in these upcoming eps let alone Baby Sara. I could see Evil!Oliver wanting to go after Diggle's family to get to him but I don't think this show will be ballsy enough to kill off or seriously harm a baby, or have Evil!Oliver kill Lyla (maybe injure her a little, though). And no way will Oliver be able to get back from that. At most, the threats to Diggle's family will probably be just words. I think, maybe, Diggle and Evil!Oliver will end up in a knock-down, drag-out fight that results in some serious hurting, both physical and emotional, in 3x21. If Diggle gets seriously hurt and the injury has permanent-ish implications, that could be something that Digg might not easily forgive, even if he knows Oliver wasn't himself at the time. Perhaps, whatever injury Diggle sustains is what prompts the Diggle 2.0 thing/possible costume that DR teased he got a full body scan for S4 during one of his cons.

[apinknightmare]

^yes, baby Sara is in 3x21 (MG said so on Tumblr).

[SonofaBiscuit]

The last thing I remember SA questioning was the decision to kill off Sara.  I remember that he said something like, "Are we sure about this, guys?"  And look how that mess turned out.  If he's questioning whatever happens in 3x21 and if the damage can eventually be undone, well I'm really concerned.  Like, are people going to be rage-tweeting MG after next week's episode, or what?  Also, have we reached the shark-jumping portion of the season yet?  Because I remember MG talking about skirting as close to that line as they could without actually jumping the shark.  

[wonderwall]

I honestly do think that there's a plan afoot. Oliver Queen is too strong to be brainwashed in a span of a week or so. Also because it doesn't seem as though Felicity will be affected that much by evil!Oliver as Diggle is so there must be a reason to that (this is at least what I got from the spoilers). I'd think that Felicity would be against evil!Oliver and support Diggle... Hopefully this is the case. That's the only reason (if Oliver does something unforgivable) I'd forgive him. 

[SleepDeprived]

^yes, baby Sara is in 3x21 (MG said so on Tumblr).

 

Is she? Oh, well, damn. Then that makes me a little more nervous for the Diggles. She's hopefully not gonna get hurt, though, just crying a lot to make Diggle angry/fearful/pissed at Evil!Oliver and the LoA.

[NoWayOut]

It's looking less and less likely to be an O/F wedding. Not only do they deliberately hold things back when it comes to Olicity, Oliver and Diggle's relationship will be taking a bad turn in 321 and it doesn't sound like it'll be over in one episode. I can't imagine O/F would decide on a pitstop wedding in 322 with everything going on around them.

 

Like I said before, I will only be okay with this Oliver/Diggle arc if it's something they can come back from and it isn't being served as a catalyst to gradually move Diggle away from the team.

[Soulfire]

Felicity: "Okay, well, even if a magic hot tub were not crazy talk we're not going to let you go and join the League of Psychotic Murderers, even if it is to save Thea!"

 

Heh. But also, Oliver's face after he says "There's a way for me to save her" physically pains me. Well played, Amell.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Soulfire

[Morrigan2575]

I honestly do think that there's a plan afoot. Oliver Queen is too strong to be brainwashed in a span of a week or so. Also because it doesn't seem as though Felicity will be affected that much by evil!Oliver as Diggle is so there must be a reason to that (this is at least what I got from the spoilers). I'd think that Felicity would be against evil!Oliver and support Diggle... Hopefully this is the case. That's the only reason (if Oliver does something unforgivable) I'd forgive him.

MG said it's 3 weeks between 320 and 321, then 321-323 take place with a few days.

SA also talked about a loophole with Evil!Oliver at a recent con...loopholes usually indicate mind whammy

Edited April 21, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

3 weeks, MG said it's 3 weeks between 320 and 321. Then 321-323 take place with a few days.

SA also talked about a loophole with Evil!Oliver at a recent con...loopholes usually indicate mind whammy

 

Ahhhhhhh that makes more sense. 

[apinknightmare]

After everything Oliver's been through it would take months to break him. So if he's batshit in three weeks it's either because he's being drugged or because he's pretending.

ETA: or because these writers are terrible

Edited April 21, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

Problems: Oliver continues to deny Ra's, more people die.

What is his solution? What kind of plan could hr come up with? I mean I think something to do with metahumans and an enormous piles of explosives. How big is Ra's house?