Spoiler Discussion Thread

[AyChihuahua]

 

 

Talking about your sex life in front of your colleagues is inappropriate.  It's really quite unfair to assume posters who find that gross would not find it gross if it were her and Oliver.  And fanfic is fanfic, not canon.  

 

 

If Ray does something it's terrible (like telling a bad guy to stay away from Felicity)

The only person I remember Ray telling to stay away from Felicity is Oliver.  And, of course, he's not bad.  If you're talking about the upcoming scene, I have not heard one person say that is terrible.  What is the alternative, Ray says "Sure, go ahead and have fun choking her to death."

Edited April 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[jay741982]

The Raylicity relationship continues to come across superficial and hollow as hell.

 

Barry is me.

I'm hoping Barry talks to her about that scene later in the episode and tells her he thinks she's overcompsating for Oliver not being available. And that that exchange was gross lol. Also that Oliver feels that he doesn't get to have the girl.

[ostentatious]

I don't know anyone who wants to see Oliver and Felicity vomiting out info about their sex life while Barry facepalms.

And yeah, the only way this works is if Barry gets all Sassy Gay Friend on her.

Edited April 11, 2015 by ostentatious

[rainydawn]

The timing is so wrong IMO when in a few weeks she supposedly confesses her love to Oliver and they have their moment.

Edited April 11, 2015 by rainydawn

[HighHopes]

What scene are you talking about? Because what happens in the scenes in The Flash aren't really the biggest issue - it's the timing of them. 

 

And I must be in a minority because I don't want to see Felicity acting like that with anyone. No thanks.

 

I agree the timing issue sucks. And I have never liked it in fics, but I know parts of the fandom do. 

 

Talking about your sex life in front of your colleagues is inappropriate.  It's really quite unfair to assume posters who find that gross would not find it gross if it were her and Oliver.  And fanfic is fanfic, not canon.  

 

The sex scene is  just one scene in a long line of things that Ray does = the worst but if Oliver does it = the best thing ever. And I didn't put blame on any posters here, but the fandom in general. I use a blanket statement and that wasn't actually fair. My apologies. 

[jay741982]

Talking about your sex life in front of your colleagues is inappropriate.  It's really quite unfair to assume posters who find that gross would not find it gross if it were her and Oliver.  And fanfic is fanfic, not canon.

I agree. I want her and Oliver to happen but I don't want their sex life discussed in front of Colleagues. I have a feeling that Oliver wouldn't let that happen lol

[apinknightmare]

And I must be in a minority because I don't want to see Felicity acting like that with anyone. No thanks.

 

Seriously. If/when her and Oliver ever get their shit together, please. No. 

[Sunshine]

I think this is my problem with Felicity's characterization on The Flash.  She has outgrown a lot of this behavior on Arrow but they keep writing her on The Flash like she first appeared in Arrow S1.  

[AyChihuahua]

 

The sex scene is  just one scene in a long line of things that Ray does = the worst but if Oliver does it = the best thing ever.

Do you have any examples in which Ray and Oliver have done exactly the same thing and any large group of the fandom has reacted differently to the two characters' actions?

[Angel12d]

Seriously. If/when her and Oliver ever get their shit together, please. No. 

 

I can't see them acting like that anyway. If they ever get together I think the most we'll get is a few kisses here and there and some hand holding. Shoulder touching. Basically things they already did before this season. Which is why Felicity acting like this just comes across as fake and trying too hard. Shudder.

[Chaser]

Sneak peek number2 is Ray and Felicity again? They are pushing Ray HARD. This is just going to annoy more people.

Felicity girl, I love you, but I'm skipping this because it would just taint Arrow and everything.

[jay741982]

I can't see them acting like that anyway. If they ever get together I think the most we'll get is a few kisses here and there and some hand holding. Shoulder touching. Basically things they already did before this season. Which is why Felicity acting like this just comes across as fake and trying too hard. Shudder.

Maybe that's what the writing is trying to show? She loves Oliver that we know and I can't see that behavior happening with Olicity. She'd probably really like the sex but wouldn't say in front of Diggle Roy Laurel and Thea what she shared with Barry and the Flash Crew.

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder, if The Flash audience hates him, how that would affect the spinoff?  I'm still not convinced it's really going to happen.  Brandon Routh is not cheap...would be hilarious to me if it did happen, but he was left out or a guest or something.

Edited April 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[jay741982]

Barry in that clip did literally what I did when Felicity starting sharing TMI

[statsgirl]

I'm glad I read your comments before I saw the clip.

 

Having prepared myself for the worst, what I got out of it is that 1. AK sees Ray as a male Felicity, geeky, excitable and socially inappropriate (Caitlin's "There are two of them") and 2. Felicity is trying really hard to tell the world that this is a great relationship with Ray, although I'm not so sure that that's what AK was trying to put across.

 

With respect to Ray being a male Felicity, I think if he had been paying attention to the Arrow feedback, he would have seen it isn't working, that what EBR can sell as charming, BR doesn't and they need to tweak that stuff.

 

With respect to the second, if that's what they want us to see, that Felicity is crazy trying to sell her relationship with Ray as being wonderful when she knows it isn't, I wouldn't be surprised if Barry says something to her about trying too hard, or that he knows what it's like to love one person while trying to make it work with another, in his case Iris and Linda Park.

[HighHopes]

Do you have any examples in which Ray and Oliver have done exactly the same thing and any large group of the fandom has reacted differently to the two characters' actions?

 

The showing up at her door vs Oliver knowing what car was Felicity's, where she parked and when she would get off work. 

Ray protecting Felicity ("stay away from her") when parts of the tumblr fandom go crazy when Oliver does the same thing to bad guys. 

Buying her the dress in 3x07. Oliver bought her the dress in the Dodger episode. 

 

There's been a double standard with Ray. With the pinging of phones (Felicity pinged Thea's phone before). And honestly, the amount of hate Ray gets is super tiring. Because yes he hasn't been perfect, but no one on the show has. The problems with Arrow didn't start with Ray. 

 

All I said was that similar scenes have been written before or headcanoned about for Oliver and Felicity, and now that it is happening with Felicity and a different love interest it's the worst thing ever and completely OOC and I just don't get it. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by HighHopes

[jay741982]

I'm glad I read your comments before I saw the clip.

 

Having prepared myself for the worst, what I got out of it is that 1. AK sees Ray as a male Felicity, geeky, excitable and socially inappropriate (Caitlin's "There are two of them") and 2. Felicity is trying really hard to tell the world that this is a great relationship with Ray, although I'm not so sure that that's what AK was trying to put across.

 

With respect to Ray being a male Felicity, I think if he had been paying attention to the Arrow feedback, he would have seen it isn't working, that what EBR can sell as charming, BR doesn't and they need to tweak that stuff.

 

With respect to the second, if that's what they want us to see, that Felicity is crazy trying to sell her relationship with Ray as being wonderful when she knows it isn't, I wouldn't be surprised if Barry says something to her about trying too hard, or that he knows what it's like to love one person while trying to make it work with another, in his case Iris and Linda Park.

Thanks for saying what I couldn't lol I completely agree

[apinknightmare]

I wonder, if The Flash audience hates him, how that would affect the spinoff?  I'm still not convinced it's really going to happen.  Brandon Routh is not cheap...would be hilarious to me if it did happen, but he was left out or a guest or something.

 

I don't think they'll hate him - seems like he'll be more in his element over there. What they're trying to sell with him fits in much better with The Flash.

[Chasity]

I'm glad AK isn't the show runner for Arrow. The Ray/Felicity stuff this season would have been way, way worse if he was. 

[AyChihuahua]

 

 

The showing up at her door vs Oliver knowing what car was Felicity's, where she parked and when she would get off work.

Ray protecting Felicity ("stay away from her") when parts of the tumblr fandom go crazy when Oliver does the same thing to bad guys.

Buying her the dress in 3x07. Oliver bought her the dress in the Dodger episode.

(1) Ray showed up at her door and barged in to talk about a work project while she was in her pajamas, when he could have waited an hour for her to be in her office.  Oliver was shot and bleeding to death with no other options.  Not comparable.

 

(2) You're quoting Ray.  Yes, Ray says that.  Where is the fandom outrage that it's bad when Ray says it and fine when Oliver does?  You're basically saying Ray and Oliver say the same thing...okay, sure...where is the outrage about Ray saying that?  Again, what else would Ray be expected to say the the gent strangling Felicity.

 

(3) What in the show, is evidence that Oliver bought her that dress?  I have watched that episode at least 20 times, and that is never stated, implied, or even hinted at.

Edited April 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[ostentatious]

I don't mind Ray, don't think he's a stalker, and don't care about the alacrity with which Felicity is moving on to Oliver.

But I do care about showing up at somebody else's house being super gross like that, and in that scene it's Felicity driving the grossness. This isn't anti-Ray, it's anti-squick.

Edited April 11, 2015 by ostentatious

[Chaser]

I can't watch the clip right now. What does she say?

[foreverevolving]

I think it's hilarious that people are complaining about that scene because I have seen similar scenes in Olicity fics countless times- and people seem to love it. Not that I am really looking forward to this episode of the Flash because time-wise it's weird, especially after last week's Arrow episode. 

 

But there seems to be a double standard in the fandom. If Ray does something it's terrible (like telling a bad guy to stay away from Felicity) but if Oliver does it it's amazing and "the hubby protecting the wifey!!". And honestly I'm so tired of it. 

I agree, while I am in no way on the Raylicity bandwagon. I feel like the fact that everyone dislikes them is... well the point. even caitlin points out how very similar they are... and i think that is the point, we are shown that they are Way too similar for this relationship to work. Also there's the all rebound thing for both of them, and Felicity obvious to "sale" and show the world that "haha see you thought this won't work but i'm proving you wrong" sort of like a rebellious teenager sort of thing, which will of course backfire.

 

ETA: Or pretty much what Ststs wrote.

I'm glad I read your comments before I saw the clip.

 

Having prepared myself for the worst, what I got out of it is that 1. AK sees Ray as a male Felicity, geeky, excitable and socially inappropriate (Caitlin's "There are two of them") and 2. Felicity is trying really hard to tell the world that this is a great relationship with Ray, although I'm not so sure that that's what AK was trying to put across.

 

With respect to Ray being a male Felicity, I think if he had been paying attention to the Arrow feedback, he would have seen it isn't working, that what EBR can sell as charming, BR doesn't and they need to tweak that stuff.

 

With respect to the second, if that's what they want us to see, that Felicity is crazy trying to sell her relationship with Ray as being wonderful when she knows it isn't, I wouldn't be surprised if Barry says something to her about trying too hard, or that he knows what it's like to love one person while trying to make it work with another, in his case Iris and Linda Park.

Edited April 11, 2015 by foreverevolving

[ostentatious]

I do get it. I'm supposed to perceive Ray and Felicity as being the same person like Oliver and Sara were the same person. I just think that Felicity wouldn't come in looking for opportunities to overshare about her sex life in public basically, in someone else's space.

I would rather see her overshare with LAUREL, ffs. While Roy facepalmed.

Edited April 11, 2015 by ostentatious

[AyChihuahua]

 

There's been a double standard with Ray. With the pinging of phones (Felicity pinged Thea's phone before). And honestly, the amount of hate Ray gets is super tiring. Because yes he hasn't been perfect, but no one on the show has. The problems with Arrow didn't start with Ray.

Now we're getting into Felicity being as bad as Ray, which is a different argument than you were making before, which is that Oliver is as bad as Ray.  Your examples don't work for me at all, either because they are entirely different situations, you're making a statement rather than an argument, or you're saying things that were never shown.  Now if you want to get into Felicity being as bad as Ray because she pinged Thea's phone (when she was in Corto Maltese?), fine.  

 

As far as hating Ray, I will say the same thing I say about Laurel.  I hate Ray because he's a terrible character played by a poor actor.  The poor writing, poor acting, and probably poor directing CAUSED my hate.  My hate didn't just arise for kicks, and since I don't particularly care about Olicity anymore, it exists entirely outside of Olicity.  Ray is a condescending, blinkered, creepy, inappropriate ahole, played by a poor actor with chronic pinkeye and little physical grace.  That is why I hate him.  

[statsgirl]

There a repeat of a Felicity line from the crossover. Or maybe it's Barry who said it.  When Barry tells the group that they're trying to deal with a metahuman who can control bees, Ray says "Cool.... I mean awful."  Can anyone remember the original?

 

Do we know who wrote this one?  Although it doesn't really matter since AK would have the final write through and he loves BR/Ray.  Even the title of the episode 'All Star Team Up' says a lot when it's really just Barry and Ray, and we've already had two Barry/Oliver team ups.  Three is  you count Three Ghosts.  And AK loves Sexual Innuendo Felicity.  Possibly Sexual Innuendo Felicity Barbie, given how her hair looks.

 

 

even caitlin points out how very similar they are... and i think that is the point, we are shown that they are Way too similar for this relationship to work. Also there's the all rebound thing for both of them, and Felicity obvious to "sale" and show the world that "haha see you thought this won't work but i'm proving you wrong" sort of like a rebellious teenager sort of thing, which will of course backfire.

They really seem to repeat themselves in terms of secondary love interests, don't they?    Sara was just like Oliver (which is why  many people still ship them, or would if Sara were alive because she's broken and a fighter like he is) and Barry and Ray are just like Felicity.  I suppose I should just be happy that Sara, Barry and Ray are canon the wrong people instead of spending two seasons in a relationship that is going to fail.

 

Methinks they're trying too have to do Raylicity.  At this point, Ray seems like less of an alternative to Oliver and more like someone Felicity is determined to be in a relationship with to show everyone that she can have a happy life without being with Oliver.

Edited April 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

Yeah I'm pretty much indifferent towards the whole R/F thing because I know where they're heading, but that clip was kind of gross and so not necessary. It's as cringeworthy to me as the "It feels good for you to be inside me" or something like that. NO. Felicity has outgrown that. She hasn't made an innuendo like that in such a long time that it grates my nerves. I honestly don't like the Felicity we see when she's around Ray. And yes, I see a difference. 

 

Gonna skip episode 1x18 for sure.

 

I wish the writers weren't so desperate to make Ray happen to the point that it affects Felicity's character/ ruin the momentum The Flash has been gaining the past few weeks. This episode would've been good before all the crap with Wells/Cisco/time travel happened tbqh

Edited April 11, 2015 by wonderwall

[lemotomato]

I for one, am grateful they spoiled those Raylicity scenes in particular, because now I'm not going to waste my time watching the episode. I've had more than enough of pod!Felicity on Arrow to subject myself to her on The Flash too.

[wonderwall]

Good news though, we'll get to see more of the Felicity we know and love when she's going up against Malcolm and Ra's! YAY! ALSO I'm so intrigued by what her interactions with Thea will be like. I can't wait for those scenes. I honestly think that Felicity will lose the pod when she loses Ray. 

 

I hope the episode will show that the whole thing takes place before the wedding because otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

[Genki]

This may be seen as nitpicking about Ray, but isn't part of the A.T.O.M Design from the Specs on the QC Server and Felicity's smarts with the processor and some of her other software that she developed? I'm sure Ray put a lot into the suit, but this extended propping is making me roll my eyes so hard.

 

I hope Felicity went off with Barry because she realises that there is something wrong and not because she thinks her is being unfriendly or jealous. I really don't get this clingy versions of Felicity.

 

Even if this episode is really meant to follow 3.17 I still don't see Ray/Felicity being this versions of a couple after they had a fight about trust issues. 

I think I buy it more being after the 3.18 "I love - Jello!" scenes with Felicity still in denial and REALLY overcompensating after not returning the I love you.

 

Alternatively what @wonderwall said, that  the episode needs to be before the wedding to make sense.

 

Frankly Ray Palmer is making me not want to watch the spin-off at all in spite of Sara's return.

[La Dee Da]

I got it from the episode description, Oliver undergoes a rigorous transformation. That plus the 3 week time gap led me to speculate that Oliver was brainwashed into embracing Al Saheem. Ra's sends Oliver to SC after Nyssa as a test for his new heir. We get a fight between LoA/TA +Nyssa before Oliver snaps out of it.

That's my spec for now, anyway

 

Me as well - maybe the mind-altering drugs Malcolm used with Thea come into play?  Ra's said that the LOAers would die for their leader regardless of what his or her philosophy, goals, methods might be - I can't imagine mere membership or oaths alone would be enough to transfer total and absolute loyalty between two very different Ra's (Ra'ses? Ra'si?).  Then a fight in which Al Saheem doesn't recognize or is comfortable fighting TA and Nyssa, followed by the team helping him snap out of it (I think the reciprocal "I love you" might come at that point, rather than on the jet).   

[kismet]

I'm glad I read your comments before I saw the clip.

 

Having prepared myself for the worst, what I got out of it is that 1. AK sees Ray as a male Felicity, geeky, excitable and socially inappropriate (Caitlin's "There are two of them") and 2. Felicity is trying really hard to tell the world that this is a great relationship with Ray, although I'm not so sure that that's what AK was trying to put across.

 

With respect to Ray being a male Felicity, I think if he had been paying attention to the Arrow feedback, he would have seen it isn't working, that what EBR can sell as charming, BR doesn't and they need to tweak that stuff.

 

With respect to the second, if that's what they want us to see, that Felicity is crazy trying to sell her relationship with Ray as being wonderful when she knows it isn't, I wouldn't be surprised if Barry says something to her about trying too hard, or that he knows what it's like to love one person while trying to make it work with another, in his case Iris and Linda Park.

Thanks! On target, with a lot of what I think. Seriously, don't understand why they didn't take any of the feedback from Arrow and try to make Ray a little more appealing in Flash. I mean that whole scene could have been rewritten with out the grade-school level humor. I seriously feel like I'm watching a teenage boys wet dream when I see the way they write Ray. He gets the girl, the suit and the ability to say/do anything. There must be teflon on that suit. Im not trying to be against him, but seriously how did this man get to run a multi-billion company. He acts like an 11yr old most of the time. Even on her worst socially inappropriate day, FS never acts like a schoolgirl. She might say something inappropriate, but she picks up on it and generally backtracks. Ray just owns his inappropriateness, likes its our problem not his. That type of personality just irritates me.

 

Yeah I'm pretty much indifferent towards the whole R/F thing because I know where they're heading, but that clip was kind of gross and so not necessary. It's as cringeworthy to me as the "It feels good for you to be inside me" or something like that. NO. Felicity has outgrown that. She hasn't made an innuendo like that in such a long time that it grates my nerves. I honestly don't like the Felicity we see when she's around Ray. And yes, I see a difference. 

 

Gonna skip episode 1x18 for sure.

 

I wish the writers weren't so desperate to make Ray happen to the point that it affects Felicity's character/ ruin the momentum The Flash has been gaining the past few weeks. This episode would've been good before all the crap with Wells/Cisco/time travel happened tbqh

At least the "it feels good" comment came at a very nervous moment (it was her first in the field mission) and it provided some humor. It was cheeky, esp the dry way in which OQ responded to the comment. In the Flash, they were explaining their visit & asking for their help in a group setting, not private 1 on 1 convo. There was literally no need to make a sexual innuendo, its unprofessional & just weird. FS also backtracked out of "feels good" line, which indicates she has some self-awareness & tries to fix it. There was none of that here. Also generally when FS makes these comments, they seem natural - like honest to goodness verbal slips (not so much in this scene, but other times). Ray seems to almost purposely put them in there. Its a frat boy/grade school humor of lowest denominator, which is just bad writing. If your gonna write bad sexual innuendos & puns, you need someone like Steve Carrell and his Michael Scott character who can pull it off. BR & the ATOM are not on the comedic level of SC/MS, also the shows are not always set-up for that type of humor.

I can't watch the clip right now. What does she say?

Im sorry, but then I would have to listen to that again and I just can't do that. Its just so poorly written & acting. Here is the gist - Its like 11yr old boys got together to write a funny scene, that then fell completely flat. I think they still are waiting for us to give them a high 5, they think it was so funny. There was a can't get it up joke from Ray, and then awkward confirmation from FS that everything works in that dept. Meanwhile everyone sat around in awkward disgust/silence. Followed by Barry bringing up serious concerns about metahumans that Ray took with his usual cocky persona, which is starting to grate on me. If you wanna be a hero, then be one and take stuff seriously. If you just wanna fly around in your suit and be cool, do that - but leave the crime fighting to the people that take it seriously, there are lives are on the line its not a laughing matter.

[Password]

I don't like Ray because his inappropriate behaviour has been normalised. I'd be on the Ray train if Felicity called him out on being an arrogant dick. I love Tony Stark for goodness sake. But Felicity makes me raise my eyebrows around Ray and it irritates me. The scene is obviously meant to make everyone and their mama uncomfortable. But because I already can't handle Ray it makes me want to throw something at the screen because Felicity's affection is going to this dude.

Just because he's temporary doesn't mean he doesn't affect characters around him. I hope the shade throwing from Barry is thick.

[NoWayOut]

If they are going with the brainwashed, show no mercy route with Oliver, I'm thinking Al Saheem will be the person Felicity stands up to.

[BkWurm1]

Well, this is the CW, so they're not going to show him eviscerating little girls or strangling babies.  Even The Walking Dead hasn't killed the baby yet.  Bratva, which means a lot of roughing people up and quite a bit of killing other mob people.  

Anyone watch the season finale for The 100?  They crossed a line I never expected them to cross. 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but they really didn't think this one through, did they? Obviously they knew O/F would be happening in 320 and they still continued with this sex talk between R/F in 118, as well as Felicity hanging all over him like a limpet. It's so wrong. People are already questioning/doubting Felicity's feelings and this is not gonna help AT ALL. Ugh. 

 

 

I think this is my problem with Felicity's characterization on The Flash.  She has outgrown a lot of this behavior on Arrow but they keep writing her on The Flash like she first appeared in Arrow S1.  

To be fair, it isn't Felicity that is suffering from an innuendo problem, it's Ray and she's coming to his rescue by saying she can attest everything works fine and then Ray actually spells it out and mentions Sex and honestly, Felicity looked a little uncomfortable too which is why she was hanging on his arm, half hiding her face while he goes on trying to assure everyone his problem getting it to stay up is only with the suit. 

 

It's cringe worthy (and it's supposed to be) but I'm not going to worry about other people's mistaken impressions on Felicity's fidelity.   We know it came before 3.18 so I can get over the TMI and the PDA and if anyone who doesn't know brings it publically you know a hundred people will jump in to explain and those that don't watch Arrow will never even know there is anything to be concerned about.

 

Ray being outright labeled as a male Felicity is great because that means this really is a copy of Oliver and Sara's relationships.  I hope Felicity gets to dump Ray but I feel very confident he's already one foot out the door.  It's another example of how being too alike is not a good thing which is interesting because just like with Sara, the stuff where she and Oliver were too much the same was mostly surface stuff while underneath, they were vastly different people. I think the same can be said for Ray and Felicity. 

 

I am back to being ready to cut him a break and give his character another chance.   I really think once they stop trying to force him where he doesn't fit, he'll become a more layered character on his own.  I don't think people hated him because he was a ship block but because as badly as Felicity suffered having to contort to fit into his scenes when tonally what she was going through was at odds with Palmer island, he suffered worse because he  had no good will built up for viewers to fall back on and so we were stuck with odd guy doing questionable things, smiling when he shouldn't (even though he wouldn't know it) making it very easy to resent this weirdo that still doesn't fit on the show.  When he goes to the spin off, he'll be practically a different man and maybe his quirks will amuse rather than enrage.  

[calliope1975]

And on that note, I think I'll be skipping 118 as well. I have to preserve the Felicity I know and love somehow. Ray doesn't work for me because the writing and acting haven't made me care about him. They've accomplished the opposite by making me want to never see the character again. While he may be on his way out, and I'm not even sure that's guaranteed, there's still 5 more hours left to inflict him on me. 

 

They had an opportunity to introduce a really cool new hero, and I think they blew it. As of now, he's bothering me on 2 shows and making me question why I'd want to watch him on a 3rd. 

[Morrigan2575]

Me as well - maybe the mind-altering drugs Malcolm used with Thea come into play? Ra's said that the LOAers would die for their leader regardless of what his or her philosophy, goals, methods might be - I can't imagine mere membership or oaths alone would be enough to transfer total and absolute loyalty between two very different Ra's (Ra'ses? Ra'si?). Then a fight in which Al Saheem doesn't recognize or is comfortable fighting TA and Nyssa, followed by the team helping him snap out of it (I think the reciprocal "I love you" might come at that point, rather than on the jet).

yeah I was thinking the herb or possibly something I read on Nyssa's wiki. Nyssa brainwashed Talia into turning against Ra's by continuously killing and reviving her via Lazarus Pit.

I don't know what rules they've set up in the show but if they allow the on pit to work unlimited times that kind of breaking/torture would be rather dramatic and fairly easy to tell (visually).

But who knows, could just be a haircut and extra sword fighting with Daddy Dearest.

If they are going with the brainwashed, show no mercy route with Oliver, I'm thinking Al Saheem will be the person Felicity stands up to.

I've been thinking Ra's but, yeah this would certainly fit the MG comment. Interesting. Edited April 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[CabotCove]

Talking about your sex life in front of your colleagues is inappropriate. It's really quite unfair to assume posters who find that gross would not find it gross if it were her and Oliver.  

Fairly while this Ray/Felicity convo is quite extreme its not like Oliver/Felicity werent talk about beds in front of Roy & Diggle, and being very flirty and suggestive in front of their "colleagues". And Felicity has been saying sex innuendos to Oliver and her other "colleagues" for years, really, I dont see what else is really new really. 

 

I wonder, if The Flash audience hates him, how that would affect the spinoff?

 

I guess we will just have to wait and find out on Tuesday night. And IF the Flash fandom hates him, I doubt that will change plans, the show will likely have so much more than The Atom story. Its a show that could possibly showcase a lot more DC heroes and team up in the future, it loosens the burden on Arrow & The Flash too.

 

 

There's been a double standard with Ray. With the pinging of phones (Felicity pinged Thea's phone before). And honestly, the amount of hate Ray gets is super tiring. Because yes he hasn't been perfect, but no one on the show has. The problems with Arrow didn't start with Ray.

 

 No they definitely didnt,  last year there was "SUPER"Sara after all bringing problems to the show. And since there is going to be a new season (4), Arrow's problems wont stop with Ray either, as they will likely be a new villain to tear Olic-....umm to ruin the show. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by Conell

[apinknightmare]

Ok while this Ray/Felicity convo is quite extreme its not like Oliver/Felicity werent talk about beds in front of Roy & Diggle, and being very flirty and suggestive in front of their "colleagues". And Felicity has been saying sex innuendos to Oliver and her other "colleagues" for years, really, what else is really new.

You see no difference between flirting and Oliver mentioning that Felicity bought him a bed (which she did, and not for sexual purposes) and assuring everyone in the room that Ray doesn't have erectile dysfunction and the sex is good?

I mean, I don't think they were intending to make people In the room uncomfortable, and as I wrote above, I'm sure it was really difficult for the writers to avoid writing innuendo, I just wish they hadn't gone quite so far with it.

Edited April 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

You know I understand frustration at the hate a character gets if you don't particularly see what the character is doing wrong in the eyes of others. But you're veering very close to being dismissive of those who have listed reasons for why they dislike that character repetitively and unrelated to shipping.

[CabotCove]

You see no difference between flirting and Oliver mentioning that Felicity bought him a bed (which she did, and not for sexual purposes) and assuring everyone in the room that Ray doesn't have erectile dysfunction and the sex is good?

 

MUCH difference to be exact. The situations are of course different, one couple is dating & sleeping together and the other isnt. At the same time it doesnt mean what Oliver/Felicity say & do is completely appropriate just because they aren't directly and openly talking about sex. This show isnt watched by a bunch of 2 year old only if at all, the writers know that their "innocent" quips  are totally going to be interpreted differently and doubly by the audience. Like when they have Felicity sayings things like "Its good to have you inside of me" , or when they had Felicity talking about Oliver's "family jewels" in front of Diggle. So no I dont see much difference in being direct or sneaky about it, unless you can get away with it to a very young audience..

 

But you're veering very close to being dismissive of those who have listed reasons for why they dislike that character repetitively and unrelated to shipping.

If you are talking about @highhopes, it seems to me they have stated clearly why they dont agree with those so called reasons why the character get so much extreme hate. They have stated that they find  double standards when other characters can get away with similar doings. Sounds to me like they didnt dismiss the reasons, just debunked them. In any case maybe its time to be considerate and mindful of the repetitiveness/extremes of such hate, for other members on board's sake, when they are telling you there is a problem!. There probably wouldnt be these conversations. The respect works both ways. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by Conell

[Angel12d]

If they are going with the brainwashed, show no mercy route with Oliver, I'm thinking Al Saheem will be the person Felicity stands up to.

 

Ooooh. This is an interesting idea. If Oliver does end up brainwashed (I'm not so sure he will, I don't know if there's evidence of that happening yet), having Felicity stand up to him and get through to him makes sense because she's been so intrinsically linked to his humanity. 

 

 

You know I understand frustration at the hate a character gets if you don't particularly see what the character is doing wrong in the eyes of others. But you're veering very close to being dismissive of those who have listed reasons for why they dislike that character repetitively and unrelated to shipping.

 

THIS. 

[Ariah]

Felicity's behaviour in this sneak peak from Flash reminds me of someone who tries too hard to convince the world and themselves their choice is the right choice.

 

"Look, he's great! He's my boyfriend. He's a genius. Did i tell you he's great? I mean great! <wink> Great in bed!"

 

It's natural - it's not Felicity, but it's natural. I'm also treating this scene as before Arrow's 3.17, so the lack of continuity does not bother me...

 

What bothers me is that this mat be how the writers imagine Felicity to be in a relationship. And if that's how she is, I don't want Olicity to happen. EVER, Because it would mean Felicity glued to oliver's arm, babbling about his skill of penetration in front of everyone, and being a general door-mat. Which I know - ok, I knew up to this Flash scenes - she is not. She should not be.

 

But since the writers think this is funny, they may go for it full throtle.

[Angel12d]

Felicity's behaviour in this sneak peak from Flash reminds me of someone who tries too hard to convince the world and themselves their choice is the right choice.

 

"Look, he's great! He's my boyfriend. He's a genius. Did i tell you he's great? I mean great! <wink> Great in bed!"

 

It's natural - it's not Felicity, but it's natural. I'm also treating this scene as before Arrow's 3.17, so the lack of continuity does not bother me...

 

What bothers me is that this mat be how the writers imagine Felicity to be in a relationship. And if that's how she is, I don't want Olicity to happen. EVER, Because it would mean Felicity glued to oliver's arm, babbling about his skill of penetration in front of everyone, and being a general door-mat. Which I know - ok, I knew up to this Flash scenes - she is not. She should not be.

 

But since the writers think this is funny, they may go for it full throtle.

 

She's definitely trying too hard. That's the only way I'm accepting her behavior tbh.

 

I honestly can't see her being like that with Oliver. I try to picture it and I just can't. It's like my brain does not compute such icky madness. 

[Ariah]

She's definitely trying too hard. That's the only way I'm accepting her behavior tbh.

 

I honestly can't see her being like that with Oliver. I try to picture it and I just can't. It's like my brain does not compute such icky madness. 

I know a girl who justifies her relationship with her fiancee just like that, it's sad to watch and even sadder to listen to.

 

Just like you, my mind refuses to imagine Felicity being this pod-person with Oliver - still it doesn't stop my fear that the writers think it's how Felicity-in-love would act. I mean, they don't see anything wrong in Ray's stalkerish behaviour, they think the relationship is "cute". Either they're lying their heads off because of the incomming spin-off (not throwing shade on its star is a must), or that's what they're really thinking. In which case - I'm sorry for their wives / partners. And for any relationship they'd be writing on these shows...

[apinknightmare]

MUCH difference to be exact. The situations are of course different, one couple is dating & sleeping together and the other isnt. At the same time it doesnt mean what Oliver/Felicity say & do is completely appropriate just because they aren't directly and openly talking about sex. This show isnt watched by a bunch of 2 year old only if at all, the writers know that their "innocent" quips are totally going to be interpreted differently and doubly by the audience. Like when they have Felicity sayings things like "Its good to have you inside of me" , or when they had Felicity talking about Oliver's "family jewels" in front of Diggle. So no I dont see much difference in being direct or sneaky about it, unless you can get away with it to a very young audience..

Yeah, you're talking about innuendo, which I take no issue with, regardless of who it's directed at, vs. Felicity talking about her actual sex life with Ray-one that she currently does not and has not had with Oliver. Like I wrote-I just wish they hadn't taken it that far.

[Password]

If the character is hated on before he ever gets together with a part of the ship, can it be so easily dismissed as ship hate? Look you have your reasons, and you've debunked them in your opinion. But please do not hand wave a different opinion because you've invoked your own (very welcome) opinion. I believe we're here to discuss, not dismiss. If it is factual debunking, cool. But these are people's thoughts. I have no doubt there are those who ship and therefore hate, but please do not lug everyone into one group because of your apparent debunking.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Password

[foreverevolving]

Felicity's behaviour in this sneak peak from Flash reminds me of someone who tries too hard to convince the world and themselves their choice is the right choice.

 

"Look, he's great! He's my boyfriend. He's a genius. Did i tell you he's great? I mean great! <wink> Great in bed!"

 

It's natural - it's not Felicity, but it's natural. I'm also treating this scene as before Arrow's 3.17, so the lack of continuity does not bother me...

 

What bothers me is that this mat be how the writers imagine Felicity to be in a relationship. And if that's how she is, I don't want Olicity to happen. EVER, Because it would mean Felicity glued to oliver's arm, babbling about his skill of penetration in front of everyone, and being a general door-mat. Which I know - ok, I knew up to this Flash scenes - she is not. She should not be.

 

 

 

 

But that's the point!!

FYI relationships like this do exist, where the couple may truly care and even love each other but deep down they know they are just wrong for each other, but are too afraid to admit it, so they will proceed to put on the "happy happy" show to show everyone that "yes, we are actually happy.. nothing is wrong here, absolutely nothing". I had a front row seat to this kind of relationship growing up, sooner or later the cracks start to grow and show and you just can't ignore it, you either separate or you become the kind of couple that fights all the time and ends up hating each other and depending on the couple may end up cheating because you're too much of a coward to end it..

My second point is, I think we need to remember (as far as we know at this moment) Ray is Felicity's first boyfriend since Cooper, and in between there was the all oliver's "I love you but I can't be with you thing", Felicity said herself in 305 to her mom that she really doesn't date and that she knows its a disappointment to her.

So yes, throw all of that, plus the rebound thing.... both Ray and Felicity are trying very hard to show that this works, because they are desperate for it to work.

In fact I think this is a good lesson for Felicity (as it was for Oliver last year, and as it was with Laurel- and we saw how that ended for both of them).

 

I highly doubt this will be Oliver and Felicity, simply because they won't have to put up a happy front to prove to the world that their relationship works, it just will- if the writers will let it.

Edited April 11, 2015 by foreverevolving

[CabotCove]

I'm glad AK isn't the show runner for Arrow. The Ray/Felicity stuff this season would have been way, way worse if he was.

 

Yeah The Flash tends to be over the top, Im not sure its AK or just the nature of the Flash show. Felicity just seems extra "high" whenever she is in this show to me.

 

And if that's how she is, I don't want Olicity to happen. EVER, Because it would mean Felicity glued to oliver's arm, babbling about his skill of penetration in front of everyone, and being a general door-mat

 

She only bragged to Barry about that, Ok Ok fair enough she was talking about something else. But these writers mentality if clear to me, I honestly dont think she will be talking/acting much differently with Oliver. In the end its really the same writers talking, somewhat, Imo.

 

And honestly how is  she acting much differently than when she brought Oliver to the Flash???. Wasnt she "cheerleading" him to The Flash team?, she was all over him that she might  as have been glued in his literal arms, and they were supposed to be broken up. I know its not just my take because  "they are married" was echoed all over the internet after Flash's 1.08.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Conell

[jay741982]

If they are going with the brainwashed, show no mercy route with Oliver, I'm thinking Al Saheem will be the person Felicity stands up to.

She has stood up to him plenty of times that's not surprising