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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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Maybe all the hype about "the show will never be the same again!" wasn't just hyperbole. Maybe Oliver takes a break from being Arrow and it's just the Black Canary as the vigillante next season. After all, she's a full fledged hero now, Canary Cry and everything. /bitter

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Maybe all the hype about "the show will never be the same again!" wasn't just hyperbole. Maybe Oliver takes a break from being Arrow and it's just the Black Canary as the vigillante next season. After all, she's a full fledged hero now, Canary Cry and everything. /bitter

As strange as this sounds, I could handle this for a couple of episodes.  Like Oliver Queen gets his company back, starts dating Felicity, and reestablishes a public life.  I keep coming back to Barry telling him he could do some good and inspire as Oliver Queen and I'm hoping we see the payoff for that. 

 

But I would also hope that Oliver setup a lair somewhere at QC for Roy if he is out of prison and Thea since it seems like she is getting a mask (and maybe even Laurel if she doesn't have her own separate story as the floater) to operate while he and Diggle train them and coach them to handle minor bad guys.  Then, it will take something big - like HIVE - to bring him/Green Arrow back out into the field.  But I honestly could accept a couple of episodes of Roy/Laurel/Thea fighting bad guys while Oliver tries to be Oliver Queen again and he and Felicity try dating and he has to fight the impulse to run after bad guys and sheepishly hands over some criminals to the police as OQ instead of the Arrow.  A little light comedy and O/F happy times before we deal with the Big Bad of season 4.

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I could take a while of Laurel and Ray being the ones to protect the city, but only if I don't see it on my screen.  I can't see Diggle agreeing to stay on if Oliver isn't (maybe he's looking for HIVE) and even if they bring on Thea along with Roy, the idea of several episodes of the Vigilante Team, Keystone Kops version, doesn't make me want to tune in.

 

I think (hope) the "I am Oliver Queen" applies to him being a whole person at last.  If they introduce Damien Darhk at the end of this season, the team is going to need all the help they can get.

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So, if they're introducing one of next seasons' villains at the end of this season, then maybe there's not a time jump? Or I guess maybe we're to believe that he's going to take five months to get his evil plans in evil order?

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(edited)

I think Roy might still be wearing the Arrow outfit next season. In hiding by day and doing The Arrow work by night. A bit of a return of how the hood was in S1. Thea will be Speedy and wear the red outfit.

But Oliver will have to be still in the save my City business. Maybe they will have him run and be Mayor of Starling city.

I can't see him being whole yet. But maybe after being Al Sah-him he will accept that whatever he calls himself He's Oliver Queen. I think he will search to make Oliver Queen a man who deserves Fecility's love. Kind if like s3 and s4 will be taking the themes of s2.

Edited by tarotx
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They can gave a small time jump for 3b Comics but not really affecting 4a.

I know some thing will be up because they've talked about how people will be excited about the first previews of season 4.

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I could take a while of Laurel and Ray being the ones to protect the city, but only if I don't see it on my screen.  I can't see Diggle agreeing to stay on if Oliver isn't (maybe he's looking for HIVE) and even if they bring on Thea along with Roy, the idea of several episodes of the Vigilante Team, Keystone Kops version, doesn't make me want to tune in.

 

I think (hope) the "I am Oliver Queen" applies to him being a whole person at last.  If they introduce Damien Darhk at the end of this season, the team is going to need all the help they can get.

I'm not thinking several as in 5 or 6, more like 2 maybe.  And I in my head most of the focus would be on Oliver as Oliver with just small snippets of costumed vigilantes doing some good in the news and maybe some mask breaking up a drug deal and leaving the criminal gift wrapped for the police ala season one.  What would really make this work for me is the comedy that could be played of Oliver being a "good Samaritan"/"concerned citizen" while the cops side-eye him.  And I want some comic bits of him saying its harder to run a company than jump off buildings or "I'd rather take a sword to the chest than meet with another Vice President."  Ok maybe one episode of this would be enough - but I NEED it! :)

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I could take a while of Laurel and Ray being the ones to protect the city, but only if I don't see it on my screen.  I can't see Diggle agreeing to stay on if Oliver isn't (maybe he's looking for HIVE) and even if they bring on Thea along with Roy, the idea of several episodes of the Vigilante Team, Keystone Kops version, doesn't make me want to tune in.

 

I think (hope) the "I am Oliver Queen" applies to him being a whole person at last.  If they introduce Damien Darhk at the end of this season, the team is going to need all the help they can get.

I think both Ray and Laurel might be easier to take on their own (bonus if you need to, you can fast forward them)  I really like the idea of Roy wearing the hood for a while.  But yeah, the fun part would be Oliver's reaction to all this stuff, not so much Roy, Ray, and Laurel doing their thing.  It couldn't possibly last for more than a few episodes but there could be some great stuff as Oliver can't quite let go of being the Arrow and then figure out that he's the only one that insists he has to only be one thing.

 

Then Oliver could have the green tights back, Roy can switch to being Red Arrow (cause he won't want to go back to being a sidekick) and then we can get the distinction between the Red Arrow and the Green Arrow.  

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Like others, I will be pissed off is s3 is re-set since I had to suffer through the mess that it was. 

 

This is from a while back and I'm really quoting the general sentiment, rather than a particular poster. but this puzzles me. Pain already lived through is sunk cost, it's gone. Not sure why the future must be equally painful to justify the pain felt previously? Isn't it better to just reset things to where they should be and move on, regardless of how stupid it was at the time?

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I think the viewers who watch for the stunts and the masks & costumes would want Oliver back fighting by the end of the first episode, but I can see them toying with the idea in the season opener.

 

But then I look at Laurel in the pictures getting her canary cry, and I think no, just no.  At this point in the season, I find I like her less than I did last year.

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I'm hoping that Felicity's Ray is Barry in Oliver's body comment is at least Felicity talking about how Ray should be the perfect guy for her but confesses she's not in love with him. That along with the run out and Mama Smoak talk will lead to a good time to break up with Ray before the Arrow&A.T.O.M team up. Still eye roll comment but at least isn't all Ray is Perfect perfect having felicity prop him up some more.

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I doubt very much Felicity will be Ray when the Team leaves for Nanda. They have the break up pieces in play already, it just needs a final blow and I imagine its coming in 3.19 or at the beginning of 3.20.

 

 

I'm hoping that Felicity's Ray is Barry in Oliver's body comment is at least Felicity talking about how Ray should be the perfect guy for her but confesses she's not in love with him. That along with the run out and Mama Smoak talk will lead to a good time to break up with Ray before the Arrow&A.T.O.M team up. Still eye roll comment but at least isn't all Ray is Perfect perfect having felicity prop him up some more.

This episode takes place before 3.18 so Mama Smoak won't be on her mind. I think it was supposed to be before 3.17 as well. I imagine Felicity and Ray will be in a stronger place. That being said, I'm thinking Barry or Felicity does say something about her and Oliver because they wouldn't pass up on that chance.

 

Really looking forward to Barry's eyeroll at Cisco's ATOM naming. Also just realized that NotWells is from the future and he didn't look that impressed when ATOM flew in; that makes me laugh.

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As much as I detest Ray Im hoping Felicity don't cheat on him so to speak. MG was asked about that and he said duly noted.

I think that was his way of saying "already on it". At least I hope it was.

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(edited)

If Oliver and Felicity are in a position to start a relationship at the end of this season (I have no idea if they will or not) then I really don't want a time jump. Yeah, I'm being a shipper. Fight me! I just think it's unfair that we missed all the good flirty stuff leading to their first date in 301 and then presumably we'd miss the first couple of months of them dating. NOPE. I want to see some good stuff before they inevitably mess it up for a while and we all know they will. 

 

I understood why they did a time jump after s1 and to an extent s2, but it's really not necessary anymore. They could just skip a few weeks here and there after some episodes. It's no big deal. 

 

Also, I really hope 323 and "My name is Oliver Queen" is Oliver finally realizing he can have it all rather than him choosing just to be Oliver. IMO, the whole point of this season was his inability to choose an identity when really he never had to choose. He just had to accept he could be both. Simply choosing Oliver is missing the point, for me personally anyway.

 

Plus I have no interest in seeing Laurel and Ray look after the city while Oliver stays Oliver. I'm here to watch his story, not theirs. This is not the BC or Atom show, although they certainly tried to make it that way sometimes. No thanks. Give me back Oliver please. 

Edited by Angel12d
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I haven't kept on top of spoiler thread for a show with this kind of voracity since Buffy and Smallville. Thank you Team Arrow for giving me a show to obsess about.  That said, after reading the links, following the cast, writers etc on every form of social media there is and reading everyone's excellent spec on this forum I have no idea what is going to happen.  I will offer this, I think we will see, a break up, a make up, a union, a death, a rebirth and a set up to solidify Arrow ( and by extension) Oliver Queen as the foundation from which other spin offs are born and CW can maintain it's status as the network that does superheroes right.  

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Oh I know the samantics but I still want it to be along those lines otherwise I see only the ick factor of proping up Ray And the causing non spoiled fans to drop both Felicity&Ray down a couple of degrees.

I doubt very much Felicity will be Ray when the Team leaves for Nanda. They have the break up pieces in play already, it just needs a final blow and I imagine its coming in 3.19 or at the beginning of 3.20.

This episode takes place before 3.18 so Mama Smoak won't be on her mind. I think it was supposed to be before 3.17 as well. I imagine Felicity and Ray will be in a stronger place. That being said, I'm thinking Barry or Felicity does say something about her and Oliver because they wouldn't pass up on that chance.

Really looking forward to Barry's eyeroll at Cisco's ATOM naming. Also just realized that NotWells is from the future and he didn't look that impressed when ATOM flew in; that makes me laugh.

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I truly do not believe they will reset the season via time travel. I just don't think MG is that into it. He's mentioned that he is not involved in the Flash, so I think he will stand up for his show and not allow that part the Flash to be part of Arrow. This season has been so inconsistent & poorly executed in so many ways -- if they turn around and just reset to 9mo prior I will be so pissed. Even with all the problems, I want this season to stand for something. So if it is finally that OQ knows his true identity, thank goodness. He'll still have problems, but I want him in a mentally happier place by s4. I have a feeling s4 flashbacks are gonna be very very dark, so we need some contrast.

 

I wonder if the title of the finale hints that we may not get the traditional "My name is Oliver Queen" monologue at the start of every episode in s4. Perhaps that is one the main changes they keep on promising. Like someone said above, maybe the new opening s4 will be "my name is OQ and I am the green arrow".

 

Does anyone know if seating arrangements in Arrow table reads have any significance? Because I was surprised to see JB between SA & MN, I wonder what that means.

 

As for the big bad, I wonder if it will be introduced to the audience in the finale but not the cast. So they can have him laying his plans and doing bad things in the comics, but not actually have the team know who they are trying to fight. I like when shows let us know something big that characters don't and its been awhile since they did that on Arrow.

 

As for Oliver being Oliver Queen. I would like to see him join the land of the living again. I miss seeing him out of the foundry doing things unrelated to Arrow crime fighting. I wonder if him having a business or charity will be part of his PR push to overcome the tarnish that his "false accusations" by the SCPD caused. It would be nice to see SA in a suit again. I wonder what type of relationship he will be having with FS. I hope they are trying an actual relationship. I think it will help anchor him in OQ life. I do not think he will be hanging up the hood, but I do wonder if we will see a little more of the new vigilante posse fighting instead of him in the first few episodes, esp as they try to get the spinoff off the ground.

 

Oh the comics~~ I do not want to miss the cute times between O/F, but if the writers are brave enough to give them as an official couple in s4 than it won't really matter in the long run because we'll see more. We only missed it in s3, because they almost never showed any of it. I hope that they use the comics to show Arrow helping BC & the ATOM. Now that he is willing to accept help outside of OgTA, maybe they can have Arrow showing them the ropes since I can't imagine everything goes smoothly while he is NP. The only other thing I can think they might do is have OQ stay in NP & use the comics to tell us how he gets back to SC.

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(edited)

This episode takes place before 3.18 so Mama Smoak won't be on her mind. I think it was supposed to be before 3.17 as well. I imagine Felicity and Ray will be in a stronger place.

 

Since the suit is up and running in public, I'm placing 1.18 after Ray has apologized to Felicity near the end of 3.17.  They are on good terms again, she's willing to call him her boyfriend but maybe there are some cracks (after all, we know she's not in love with him and he was an awful jerk) and maybe Barry won't be a fan.  So then time passes (however long they spend in Central City) and then they get back in time to attend another meeting with the mayor. (The end of 3.17)   Then Ray gets hit and goes to the hospital and Mama Smoak comes to town.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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I truly do not believe they will reset the season via time travel. I just don't think MG is that into it. He's mentioned that he is not involved in the Flash, so I think he will stand up for his show and not allow that part the Flash to be part of Arrow. This season has been so inconsistent & poorly executed in so many ways -- if they turn around and just reset to 9mo prior I will be so pissed.

 

Yeah, I honestly don't see them doing a time reset with Arrow.   If there is a time reset over on Flash I expect it to be resolved by the end of the season so then it would be as if it never happened. 

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I thought you liked writing stuff for The Huntress, you said you didn't have time for her, but all I see on the Internet is people talking about the Olicity porn scene. Is publicity so important as to put her aside for the shippers?

 

 

I love the way people's brains work to connect two completely unrelated developments.  Yeah, Helena is not on the show because we had to make time for an Olicity sex scene.  OK, Lol.  Damn you, Olicity, for being responsible for the fact that a character who has not appeared nor played a part in any of the ongoing storylines this entire season will continue to be excluded from a story that she has no reason to be involved in.        

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But it's just Olicity shippers who are crazy, don't ya know.

 

I'm more interested in his answer to the question re all the dark needing some light to balance it.  He seems to acknowledge this season has been unbelievably depressing, and that S4 won't be quite as bad. 

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(edited)

A fan asked MG why Laurel was getting the Canary Cry on The Flash.  His answer: "It makes sense for Laurel to get the Canary Cry on Flash because it’s a Flash character who makes it for her.  (Its first use will be on Arrow.)" 

 

But that's really not an answer, is it, because they could have easily had Cisco cross over to Arrow (like he's done twice before already).  So why not have Cisco show up in an Arrow episode and give Laurel the Canary Cry on Arrow?  This significant BC development contributes nothing to the Flash story.  Here's a few possible theories:  (1) fairness, since other Arrow cast members have shown up on The Flash (in more than cameo appearances);  (2) to promote Laurel/BC to Flash viewers who don't watch Arrow by pairing her with the popular Cisco in some cute, funny scenes;  and/or (3) to test Laurel/BC's popularity as a character on her own (away from Arrow, Oliver and Olicity).  Also, if you subscribe to the theory that Laurel will be the floater for the three shows, then her unnecessary appearance on The Flash would support that theory by increasing her connections to the Flash universe.

 

Another thing - IIRC, Team Flash knows that Sara Lance was the Canary and that she was murdered.  So shouldn't Cisco's first reaction upon meeting Laurel Lance - Sara's sister! - be something like "hey, I'm sorry about your sister"?  And, upon learning that Laurel is the one who adopted a variation of her murdered sister's Canary name, shouldn't Cisco's reaction be something other than a big smiling "ILY"?  In fact, I wonder if Sara's name will even be mentioned during those Cisco & Laurel scenes.

Edited by tv echo
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(edited)

She's definitely been on the news. As for whether or not she's done anything awesome enough to warrant Cisco hearing of her, he seems to like masked vigilantes regardless, and I suspect he'd love her even if she was filmed bumbling and still getting up and trying again (honestly, IMO that might make him love her even more). But there also seems to be a scene with Cisco and Laurel dressed as BC, so maybe his "love" comes from something that we actually see happen in this episode. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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In the"Uprising" episode, there was the big fight between Team Arrow/Glades residents and Brick's army - which might've been covered by the media.  So there could've been video showing Laurel as the masked woman in black and Arsenal leading the fight against Brick.

 

But the name "Black Canary" was never used until a subsequent episode and then only said by Quentin in a sarcastic/bitter tone when he was talking to Laurel as they stood over Sara's grave.  The name "Black Canary" was never used by Team Arrow.  Yet Ray Palmer somehow learned that name and used it in conversation with Felicity, IIRC.  

 

So it's still a mystery how the name "Black Canary" came to be known by the public, let alone by Cisco and others outside of Starling City - unless someone took out an ad in the Starling City newspaper announcing that the masked blonde woman in black was called the Black Canary.  Alternatively, you could interpret the Cisco ILY scene as him hearing the Black Canary name for the first time.  (Although that still doesn't explain how Ray heard the name.)

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When Nyssa realizes they are coming, she arms up to face them alone but Laurel asks Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) and Diggle (David Ramsey) to help protect her new friend.

 

 

Save yourselves, Diggle and Felicity.  Don't get yourselves injured or killed while doing a favor for Laurel.  Run!

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(edited)

The League of Assassins sets their sites on Nyssa

Why, since she told Oliver she's not going to turn on her father?  Is this a case of killing off all other possible rivals to the throne?  (How medieval of them.)

 

I notice that there is more about what's happening in Starling City than Oliver in Nanda Parbat. Is that because the "Oliver alone vs Ra's" plots didn't go over so well earlier this season?

 

 

Save yourselves, Diggle and Felicity.  Don't get yourselves injured or killed while doing a favor for Laurel.  Run!

But it would be for Sara.  And you know they'd do it for Sara.

Edited by statsgirl
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(edited)

I get why Nyssa/Laurel fans will love 3x21 now. Why is the LOA going after Nyssa? Are they worried she would challenge Oliver?

 

Surprised they would air a Laurel heavy episode to start sweeps. I wonder if they are hoping a big Olicity/Team Arrow episode will boast it.

 

And yes, right or wrong I choose to believe Team Arrow and Olicity episodes have a positive affect on the ratings.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Yeah, I love how Oliver's spent three years so far working up to being the Green Arrow, and when it comes to Laurel being the Black Canary the show's just like, "Whaddya mean? That's what everyone has always called her."

 

Anyway, looking again at that table read photo, that woman with the black bob is not Rila Fukushima; I don't think it's Katrina Law unless she's wearing a wig. So, it's either a staff person, which might be a little odd because they're seated down with the cast. Or it's someone in a wig, which is strategically hanging in front of her face. Occam's Razor says staff person, but my heart says Caity Lotz.

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Yeah, I love how Oliver's spent three years so far working up to being the Green Arrow, and when it comes to Laurel being the Black Canary the show's just like, "Whaddya mean? That's what everyone has always called her."

 

Anyway, looking again at that table read photo, that woman with the black bob is not Rila Fukushima; I don't think it's Katrina Law unless she's wearing a wig. So, it's either a staff person, which might be a little odd because they're seated down with the cast. Or it's someone in a wig, which is strategically hanging in front of her face. Occam's Razor says staff person, but my heart says Caity Lotz.

 

Marc on Tumblr (or maybe Twitter) confirmed it's Rila.

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For me, at least, I have zero interest, less than zero interest, actually, in watching Oliver hand over his soul to the LOA.  The whole thing makes me sick.  The only way I'll ever be okay with it is if it turns out the whole time he had a plan, or at least 12 percent of a plan, to take them down.  Definitely not watching that ep.  I think the idea that he's turning himself over is even going to ruin the love scene for me, so I'm not watching that outside Tumblr until I see the presumably happy ending to the season. 

 

On the other hand, I was curious how they'd get Nyssa over to their side, and this should do it.

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(edited)

They need to write better descriptions. 'Her new friend' makes Nyssa sound like a 1st grader getting picked on.  

Edited by 10Eleven12
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(edited)

I get why Nyssa/Laurel fans will love 3x21 now. Why is the LOA going after Nyssa? Are they worried she would challenge Oliver?

Unauthorized training of Laurel?

 

The League of Assassins sets their sites on Nyssa.

Where's the CW Grammar Police? It should be "sets their sights on Nyssa".  "Sites" are areas of ground or websites.  "Sights" are things that can be seen or taking aim at something (by looking through the sights of a gun).

Edited by tv echo
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(edited)

Why, since she told Oliver she's not going to turn on her father?  Is this a case of killing off all other possible rivals to the throne?  (How medieval of them.)

 

I notice that there is more about what's happening in Starling City than Oliver in Nanda Parbat. Is that because the "Oliver alone vs Ra's" plots didn't go over so well earlier this season?

 

But it would be for Sara.  And you know they'd do it for Sara.

So if Felicity and Diggle are in SC to help Laurel protect Nyssa from the LOA - olicity sex must happen in 3x20 for sure right?  Which also means its going to be followed by a gut-wrenching goodbye, isn't it?

 

I wonder if this is the scene where Oliver is saying his name and telling the LOA to obey - because he calls them off the Nyssa kill?

Edited by nksarmi
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(edited)

I'm curious about the whole "rigorous transformation." I imagine this where the new haircut and new outfit comes in (as well as soul, humanity stuff, of course). I'm slow but I'm just realizing that photo caption of Paul Blackthorne's with the costumed folks might actually refer to Oliver Queen no longer wearing the Arrow suit (this season only, I hope, or maybe the suit undergoes drastic changes courtesy of Cisco), and not Roy dying (though that could still happen). I was so hoping it was BC going away and never returning (yes, yes, it was a foolish hope).

 

I have no interest whatsoever in Laurel -- even if her side story includes 2 of my favorite characters and 1 I really enjoy. My headcanon right now is Laurel wants to get rid of Diggle and Felicity, because that's the only reason I could come up with as to why she would ask them to help protect somebody as badass as Nyssa (I'm only half-joking). SHE can help if she wants to and I hope some LOA minion actually is efficient enough to knock her out so she can sleep until the end of the season.

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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Nyssa leaving the League should be reason enough. That's why they went after Sara.

 

Didn't her dear father boot her out after she tried to sever his head from his shoulders? They weren't going after her in the last 2 eps. I wonder what changed.

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I wonder what changed.

Contrivance!  They need scenes in Starling City with the rest of the Team.

 

Now that Oliver accept being the Heir, there's even less reason to go after Nyssa.  Killing her will only stir up the faction that accepted her for years and resents Ra's naming an outsider to be their Head.  Really, the smartest thing for Ra's to do is just let Nyssa quietly disappear.

 

Maybe MG has found a better way to spin this because right now it makes less than zero sense other than as a way to involve Laurel, Diggle and Felicity.

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(edited)

I'm telling you - Ra's was okay with sending Nyssa away, but not okay with Nyssa training Laurel... you know, teaching her all the top secret purple smoke signals.

 

Isn't Ray still around in 3x21?  Wouldn't the Atom be helpful in a fight against the LOA?  And if Oliver is now part of the LOA, then Laurel's asking Diggle & Felicity to help in fighting against Oliver's organization?

 

That Jamie Bamford instagram pic - looks like the season finale (3x23) is going to feature a big LOA fight with swords.

Edited by tv echo
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I'm over here ROTFL because we have Laurel, who has been trained for all of 5 seconds but is totes a hero because she has a mask, asking Dig and Felicity for help.  Facepalm. Everything about the description for 3x21 is just . . . . no. 

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(edited)

They need to write better descriptions. 'Her new friend' makes Nyssa sound like a 1st grader getting picked on.

They also need to learn the difference between "sites" and "sights", or get a better proofreader.

ETA: TV Echo already said it - sorry!

Edited by Starfish35
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"And if Oliver is now part of the LOA, then Laurel's asking Diggle & Felicity to help in fighting against Oliver's organization?"

 

I mean, he's not REALLY part of the LOA.  They're going to need a whole lot more than calling him some stupid LOA name and shaving his head to make me believe that, plus, he's out by the end of the season.  It's not like if Ra's ordered him to decapitate Felicity he'd actually do it.

 

Agree with your spec re the training being a problem, though.

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