Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[tessathereaper]

18 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Well, just to play devil's advocate, I suppose it's *because* Dean is so strong that people just assume he's alright because he's *always* alright, and doesn't show the cracks in his armor to anyone.

Having said that, I'd think that Sam would be the one to see through that, but, of course, he had his own issues in season 4 (and 5) and probably missed a lot (or decided it was too much work to get Dean to talk about it.)  

I also think Dean's standard way of dealing with things is to keep busy and get back on the horse (and put all his trauma into a big lead box--kind of like locking Michael in the back room) until he can't ignore it any more.  But it would have been nice if the writers had actually acknowledged any of this instead of making viewers create their own head canon.

 

No.  That's not it.  Sam was saying he was weak and couldn't do the job. Even though honestly there was zero change in Dean's abilities for the worse, if anything he was as good or better than ever.  And no Sam's 'issues' really aren't an excuse for it.  When Dean did reveal he remembered Hell but just couldn't talk about it, all Sam could do was use it as some sort of "point" - "Tell me about hell and don't leave out the details" or whatever he said a few episodes later when Dean asked him to explain something that was very pertinent to what they were doing NOW.  He was resentful of Dean not revealing everything to him, right away, rather than thinking "God what my brother must be going through right".  Heck even after he came back from Hell himself, Dean tried to use that experience to help him and it still didn't seem to make Sam anymore sympathetic to what DEAN had gone through and what HE had put him through afterwards. 

Everyone literally seemed to forget Dean even went to Hell. Unless it could be used to insult him for being weak in some way.

 

[tessathereaper]

38 minutes ago, Aithne said:

He's one of a kind. Your point about him immediately getting back to work is a good one too - I would've shrugged and not looked a gift horse in the mouth, whereas he's instantly back on the hunt to find out why this happened. 

Makes me wonder how long it's gonna be before he gets bored in Heaven and starts casting about for things to fix and problems to solve. Not long, I imagine. (Maybe the prequel ends with Dean finding out something, via watching his parents' history, that needs to be taken care of on Earth - something they never knew about during their lifetimes - and he makes himself enough of a pain that Heaven agrees to send him back / undo his death so he can handle it.)

I know I honestly can't imagine him NOT getting stir crazy.  Or as Jensen said I think "Put me back in, Coach".  He can't really see Dean being at "peace" for long up there either.  LOL  And I love that idea you wrote about the prequel!!   That would actually be a GREAT way to do it.

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

No.  That's not it.  Sam was saying he was weak and couldn't do the job. Even though honestly there was zero change in Dean's abilities for the worse, if anything he was as good or better than ever.  And no Sam's 'issues' really aren't an excuse for it.  When Dean did reveal he remembered Hell but just couldn't talk about it, all Sam could do was use it as some sort of "point" - "Tell me about hell and don't leave out the details" or whatever he said a few episodes later when Dean asked him to explain something that was very pertinent to what they were doing NOW.  He was resentful of Dean not revealing everything to him, right away, rather than thinking "God what my brother must be going through right".  Heck even after he came back from Hell himself, Dean tried to use that experience to help him and it still didn't seem to make Sam anymore sympathetic to what DEAN had gone through and what HE had put him through afterwards. 

Everyone literally seemed to forget Dean even went to Hell. Unless it could be used to insult him for being weak in some way.

 

I did say I was playing devil's advocate.  Personally, I feel the same as you.  But (much as it pains me) I do have to give Sam an excuse for those two seasons--he was literally high during all of season 4, which seemed to have given him delusions of grandeur and lack of empathy, and in season 5 he honestly was soulless and had no empathy whatsoever.  Once he was back to "normal" he seemed appalled at his own behavior and never mocked Dean again (but still wasn't as supportive or empathetic as I'd want him to be.)  Of course, Dean was pushing him away by then, after all the nastiness Sam had given him before and I assume Dean didn't want to open himself up even to the possibility that he might repeat it.  

 

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

I did say I was playing devil's advocate.  Personally, I feel the same as you.  But (much as it pains me) I do have to give Sam an excuse for those two seasons--he was literally high during all of season 4, which seemed to have given him delusions of grandeur and lack of empathy, and in season 5 he honestly was soulless and had no empathy whatsoever.  Once he was back to "normal" he seemed appalled at his own behavior and never mocked Dean again (but still wasn't as supportive or empathetic as I'd want him to be.)  Of course, Dean was pushing him away by then, after all the nastiness Sam had given him before and I assume Dean didn't want to open himself up even to the possibility that he might repeat it.  

 

Season 6 he was soulless.  Season 5 he wanted to separate(this is only a couple episodes after finding out that DEAN too had a role and was a target as the Michael's vessel) but when he found out he was supposed to be Lucifer's vessel suddenly he was all about getting back together with Dean(he's the one they want now so naturally they should be together, when it was just eh Dean can deal with it)--Zachariah used the Endverse to push Dean back because they were easier to manipulate if they were together--and then in the very next episode, Sam's BLAMING Dean for why he went with Ruby because apparently Dean "do what you want just don't lie to me about it" Winchester was "too bossy" and Dean had to apologize for I don't even know what...for not trusting Sam when Sam was literally lying to him and betraying him the year before?

One episode of him being like "my bad sorry for how I was 5 minutes ago" really isn't much when the whole previous season he pretty much treated Dean like dirt while he suffering the immediate after effects of Hell when he goes back to "I have done nothing to re-earn your trust after lying to and betraying you multiple times last season but you need to trust me completely because otherwise you're being really mean and bossy to me".   So I don't think Sam was every actually truly apologetic.  He was sorry in theory, not in practice. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by tessathereaper

[Aithne]

4 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

I know I honestly can't imagine him NOT getting stir crazy.  Or as Jensen said I think "Put me back in, Coach".  He can't really see Dean being at "peace" for long up there either.  LOL  And I love that idea you wrote about the prequel!!   That would actually be a GREAT way to do it.

I just have to think that this isn't a standalone venture (the prequel) - that it's some way of opening the universe back up after an extremely unsatisfying end for the character. At least, that's what I'd do with it if I were him, ha. 

[ahrtee]

29 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Season 6 he was soulless.  Season 5 he wanted to separate. ...

Zachariah used the Endverse to push Dean back because they were easier to manipulate if they were together--and then in the very next episode, Sam's BLAMING Dean for why he went with Ruby because apparently Dean "do what you want just don't lie to me about it" Winchester was "too bossy" and Dean had to apologize for I don't even know what...for not trusting Sam when Sam was literally lying to him and betraying him the year before?

One episode of him being like "my bad sorry for how I was 5 minutes ago" really isn't much when the whole previous season he pretty much treated Dean like dirt while he suffering the immediate after effects of Hell when he goes back to "I have done nothing to re-earn your trust after lying to and betraying you multiple times last season but you need to trust me completely because otherwise you're being really mean and bossy to me".   So I don't think Sam was every actually truly apologetic.  He was sorry in theory, not in practice. 

Oops.  Yes, I remembered after I posted that SS was season 6, not 5.  But all of Sam's post-hell bitchiness ("boo hoo"; and "it affected you,  not me") was during his soulless phase.  In season 5 he was too busy worrying about himself to consider Dean, except that he wanted/needed Dean to protect him (even as he complained that Dean was 'not letting him grow up.'  To which I always answered, it's no one's responsibility to "let" you grow up.  It's something you have to do on your own, and maybe they'll acknowledge it).  

TBH, I've always hated Sam's 'non-apology apologies' and especially his expecting instant forgiveness at all times, while still holding on to his own massive grudges.  Even his "I'm the worst screwup EVVAH" speeches come across as self-centered and self-serving, as if he's just saying it so that Dean can disagree. 

But that doesn't really apply to this discussion, which I thought was more about Sam and everyone not mentioning/considering Dean's time in hell.  Yes, Sam was horribly cruel and dismissive of Dean's hell trauma at times, but I still say that was him under the influence.  I think his idea of support was getting Dean to talk it out; which would *never* be Dean's choice.  I don't think Sam knew any other way, and Dean shut him down when he tried, and so he stopped bringing it up. 

It might just be that everyone decided, since Dean didn't mention it and seemed to be getting along fine, that maybe he'd dealt with it in his own way and they didn't want to bring it up again.  (For a TMI moment, I had something traumatic happen to me when I was about 4 or 5 that my parents never discussed or even mentioned again.  When I brought it up about 30 years later, my mom was horribly upset that I even remembered, and said that they'd made sure it never happened again and didn't want me to dwell on it and so they pretended it hadn't happened at all.  All the wrong things for all the right reasons.)  

  

[DeeDee79]

9 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

Yeah it's amazing the almost psychopathetic levels of LACK of empathy Dean received.  How did the writers think that was OK?  He had people, people he LOVED, putting him down despite the fact that he barely mentioned it, came back and went RIGHT back to working and doing a damn good job.  Dean is SO damn strong and it was never really acknowledged.

 

I agree. The strongest individual still needs some empathy and genuine caring to keep them going. The "boo-hoo princess" speech was the worst instance of "support" from a supposed loved one towards Dean and still pisses me off when I watch that episode. 

[Aithne]

I've been thinking of the timeline of what we know of Dean's life pre-show. 

Age 3ish: Comforts Mary when John has temporarily left after a fight. 

Age 4 (nearly 5): Mary's death, takes Sam at John's direction and runs out of the house. 

Age 6: Learns to shoot (per some episode in S2)

Age 8 or earlier: First goes on a hunt with John (per Sam's comment in the zanna ep)

Age 9: Fort Douglas - entrusted with multiple-day absences from John while watching little Sam and is responsible for defending them if needed. Also at this age, stays with Bobby when John is gone, and Bobby takes him to throw a ball instead of practicing shooting. (Is this a result of Fort Douglas - John is temporarily spooked on leaving Dean in charge and enlists Bobby to keep the kids this time? Or just location/convenience?)

Age 10: Is convicted of breaking and entering to watch a wrestling PPV on some family's TV.

Age 12: Tells Sam about the supernatural while John is off on a job - thinks of John as a superhero, is breaking and entering other homes to get presents for Sam. Receives the amulet from Sam.  

Age 13: Is still leaving for hunts with John, with Sam left alone in motel rooms. We learn he intercedes with John on Sam's behalf to get him to come out with them, at Sam's request. 

Age 14: Loses food money in a poker game, shoplifts food, and is sent to Sonny's farm for wayward boys for 2 months without contact from the family, before being randomly picked up for a job. Excels at wrestling, has his first kiss/girlfriend.

Age 14: Initiates a hunt to help some other kids at a motel when he and Sam are left there. Finds out Sam wants to go to college, mentions that he's never been on a hunt (so presumably when Sam joined them in the zanna ep, he waited in the car and wasn't actively involved until sometime after this ep). 

Age 16: "Embraces the life", as a result of a kill on a hunt with Sam waiting in the car. Sam is still not actively hunting at this stage?

Unspecified age: Flagstaff, two weeks of searching and thinking Sam's dead when he runs off. 

Unspecified, but under legal drinking, age: Goes to a club in NYC and gets drunk, possibly roofied, and rescued by John, and is apparently surprisingly bratty about it for someone who, all three Winchesters agree, never stood up to, backtalked, or complained to his dad (to the point that John was unpleasantly surprised that Dean criticized him for not calling back when he was dying). This is kind of a weird one. 

Unspecified ages while Sam is still home: Is sent away by John from time to time as a result of angering him. 

Between ages 22-26: Meets Cassie and breaks the rule about not sharing what they do. Gets burned when she thinks he's crazy or bullshitting her. 

Anything I'm missing? It's kind of a good amount of info, and adds some shading to the info we got about how the three of their personalities worked together. Ie, the idea that he went out so early to hunt with John (before 9yo), but Sam was apparently still kept in the car on hunts at 12. It makes sense because John started teaching Dean earlier, and probably didn't need an extra helper that badly once Sam came of age, but it's interesting in that Dean even seems confident at 14 to hunt on his own. Could he and John have split apart immediately after Sam left to cover more cases, only coming back together between jobs? May also explain why Sam felt alienated and disinterested eventually, if he felt he was being left out in his youth. 

The other thing this made me realize is how many of the flashbacks or stories we get are about times when Dean feels he failed, or when he got in trouble. In Bugs, Sam says, "He never yelled at you like that, you were perfect. He was always on my case." But in the episodes we get about their youth, we can see there were many times that this wasn't the case... it's just that when Dean did get in trouble, Sam was too young to get it (Fort Douglas), not there (Flagstaff), lied to about the fact that Dean was being disciplined (Bad Boys), or just not told what was going on (Dean's comment about not knowing if Sam knew that he was being sent away). It seems like a lot of Dean and John's relationship was very much between them, and Sam was on the outside, whereas Sam and John's conflicts were in the open (Dean generally remembers them and has opinions about them). Sort of reminiscent of parents fighting behind closed doors but presenting a united front to the kids. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Aithne

[MAK]

On 1/11/2022 at 5:07 PM, Aithne said:

Age 14: Loses food money in a poker game, shoplifts food, and is sent to Sonny's farm for wayward boys for 2 months without contact from the family, before being randomly picked up for a job. Excels at wrestling, has his first kiss/girlfriend.

I think (and of course I may be wrong) Dean was supposed to be 16 when he went to Sonny's. 

There's also someone on Livejournal who has expanded the whole Supernatural universe timeline.  Don't know if has been updated since the end of the show.

[Aithne]

13 minutes ago, MAK said:

I think (and of course I may be wrong) Dean was supposed to be 16 when he went to Sonny's. 

There's also someone on Livejournal who has expanded the whole Supernatural universe timeline.  Don't know if has been updated since the end of the show.

Ha, I ignore this since it was changed for such a silly (in my opinion) reason. I figure if it was written and approved with the intent for this to happen at 14, I'm going with 14.  

Omg, that would be amazing to read! Do you happen to know which LiveJournal it's on?

[MAK]

14 hours ago, Aithne said:

Omg, that would be amazing to read! Do you happen to know which LiveJournal it's on?

This one -- 

https://hells-half-acre.livejournal.com/373711.html 

I read it a while ago, but seems to be accurate as far as what was shown on screen. One reason I liked it was that it didn't seem to include fanon or her own personal opinion (unless I missed those).

Edited January 13, 2022 by MAK
Hit enter before done.

[FlickChick]

21 hours ago, Aithne said:

Ha, I ignore this since it was changed for such a silly (in my opinion) reason. I figure if it was written and approved with the intent for this to happen at 14, I'm going with 14.  

Yes! The very concept that at 16, Dean wouldn't have kissed a girl (as inferred) is absolutely preposterous!  Also, he would have been very adept at "the five-finger discount" if he had been left alone for days at a time by the age of 16. They never should have changed the "age of Dean" because they thought that actor looked a little older than 14. IMO, the kid did a hell of an impression of Dean at a younger age. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Yes! The very concept that at 16, Dean wouldn't have kissed a girl (as inferred) is absolutely preposterous!  Also, he would have been very adept at "the five-finger discount" if he had been left alone for days at a time by the age of 16. They never should have changed the "age of Dean" because they thought that actor looked a little older than 14. IMO, the kid did a hell of an impression of Dean at a younger age. 

Especially when they used the same actor the next season and Sam asked him if he was about 14.

[tessathereaper]

Not to mention Kid Sam in that episode looked younger than 12(as he would have been if Dean was 16) and they had him playing with a toy.  Now I don't have a real issue with that, as I remember at that age plenty of kids still played with toys esp if they were bored and there was nothing else to do but I remember a lot of people did and the kid did look a bit younger than 12.

[Pondlass1]

The one thing I’ve always appreciated about those early seasons is that we weren’t inundated with flashbacks or lengthy exposition, (which I’m sure we would’ve got with Dabb in charge) but mostly left to our own thoughts and feelings regarding the brothers’ upbringing. Little hints and scenes dropped in here and there, never clobbered over the head.

With the right actors, involved writers and a decent budget the formative years story of the Winchesters could be awesome. It’s a great story.

 

[Aithne]

3 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

The one thing I’ve always appreciated about those early seasons is that we weren’t inundated with flashbacks or lengthy exposition, (which I’m sure we would’ve got with Dabb in charge) but mostly left to our own thoughts and feelings regarding the brothers’ upbringing. Little hints and scenes dropped in here and there, never clobbered over the head.

With the right actors, involved writers and a decent budget the formative years story of the Winchesters could be awesome. It’s a great story.

I would *love* this. Probably. With the right writers. The only caveat is that the actors would have to be super believable as younger versions of already-established characters. 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Aithne said:

I would *love* this. Probably. With the right writers. The only caveat is that the actors would have to be super believable as younger versions of already-established characters. 

They could talk to the people who cast This Is Us. :)

I wouldn't mind this idea *if* they have a showrunner and writers who don't hate Dean (a la Badd) or only seek to woobify and/or glorify Sam. I've had enough of that to last me several lifetimes. And NO FRAKKING ANGELS.

Edited January 14, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[Aithne]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The could talk to the people who cast This Is Us. :)

I wouldn't mind this idea *if* they have a showrunner and writers who don't hate Dean (a la Badd) or only seek to woobify and/or glorify Sam. I've had enough of that to last me several lifetimes. And NO FRAKKING ANGELS.

Ooh, hear me out here - John and Dean hunting post-Stanford. Deepfakes. Have JDM and JA perform it, just de-age them. I don't even know what I want that series to be about, but it'd be appointment TV for me. (Can deepfakes do that, haha?)

But yeah, the creative team would be critical. I'm not trying to watch Dabb's version of their childhood, for sure. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Aithne

[Casseiopeia]

Not Dean...but you know....

 

[Casseiopeia]

Favorite Dean scene or the one that made you go..."whoa"...

[Aithne]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Favorite Dean scene or the one that made you go..."whoa"...

Good God, he's pretty when he's angry. Or you know, always. 

The one that made me go "whoa" was when he lost his shit on the Impala in ELaC. Favorite... oh man, that's a tough one. There are so many great ones. I'll just pick a cute one at random and think about a serious answer later. The pleased, genuine, ever so slightly bashful "Thank you" in Hollywood Babylon when Tara the horror actress tells him he's a hell of a PA. 

[gonzosgirrl]

This counts as a whoa and a favourite. The moment Dean makes good on his promise to stab Zachariah in his face. It's a shame there was never any follow up on 'only an angel can kill another angel'.

 

[Myrelle]

7 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Favorite Dean scene or the one that made you go..."whoa"...

This was also my very first "whoa" moment concerning Dean.

And, not surprisingly, it was also my very first look at the character ever.

Found this very scene while channel surfing one May night in 2006 and I was lost for good to both character and actor from this point on.

Soooooooooooo! many emotions and feelings vibrating off both character and actor in this scene.

This was one of the two scenes within Devil's Trap that truly defined Dean for me, for all time.

He was The Most Fearsome Hunter that this show has ever given us, IMO, and that was never more obvious to me than in this early scene from the show.

Jensen was exquisite in walking the line between CaringHuman and RelentlessHunter in this scene.

And then the cabin scene gave us another side of Dean-the main caregiver in his little family-the character, who alone, was the only one who could battle all of those darker impulses that he'd been taught from chlidhood to carry around as a Hunter of Evil.

And thus was born the big question of whether Dean was a born or bred Hunter of Evil(even though we know that he saw himself as both).

The Dabb years really tried to shit on this wonderful story element, but I won't let him.

I still wonder about that and my favorite "Whoa" scene in that regard comes from S3 and Bloodlust.

I can't do pics or links, but the scene where Dean beheads the vampire with the chain saw still gives me chills every time I see it-Dean's innate innocence peeks out, underneath that blood-spattered face, and this even after that ever horrific and violent act/moment.

One couldn't help but really wonder about Nature vs Nurture through scenes like this one and I loved, loved, LOVED! how it all happened so organically through Jensen's performance there. 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Myrelle

[ILoveReading]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This counts as a whoa and a favourite. The moment Dean makes good on his promise to stab Zachariah in his face. It's a shame there was never any follow up on 'only an angel can kill another angel'.

 

I wish they had also followed up on why he never went blind.  I never bought the explanation that it was because he decided to say yes to Michael because planning on doing something is not the same thing as doing it.

[Casseiopeia]

13 hours ago, Myrelle said:

This was also my very first "whoa" moment concerning Dean.

And, not surprisingly, it was also my very first look at the character ever.

Found this very scene while channel surfing one May night in 2006 and I was lost for good to both character and actor from this point on.

Soooooooooooo! many emotions and feelings vibrating off both character and actor in this scene.

This was one of the two scenes within Devil's Trap that truly defined Dean for me, for all time.

He was The Most Fearsome Hunter that this show has ever given us, IMO, and that was never more obvious to me than in this early scene from the show.

Jensen was exquisite in walking the line between CaringHuman and RelentlessHunter in this scene.

And then the cabin scene gave us another side of Dean-the main caregiver in his little family-the character, who alone, was the only one who could battle all of those darker impulses that he'd been taught from chlidhood to carry around as a Hunter of Evil.

And thus was born the big question of whether Dean was a born or bred Hunter of Evil(even though we know that he saw himself as both).

The Dabb years really tried to shit on this wonderful story element, but I won't let him.

I still wonder about that and my favorite "Whoa" scene in that regard comes from S3 and Bloodlust.

I can't do pics or links, but the scene where Dean beheads the vampire with the chain saw still gives me chills every time I see it-Dean's innate innocence peeks out, underneath that blood-spattered face, and this even after that ever horrific and violent act/moment.

One couldn't help but really wonder about Nature vs Nurture through scenes like this one and I loved, loved, LOVED! how it all happened so organically through Jensen's performance there. 

 

[Casseiopeia]

The very first scene of Supernatural I ever saw just before the start of S6 hooked me for life.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Casseiopeia

[Casseiopeia]

What is THE photo for you?

 

[Aithne]

Oh, I forgot all about that picture - he was getting in the headspace for Dean's death scene, right? I love how committed he was to getting everything right with Dean. In the hands of someone who cared less, Dean might not have been nearly as iconic as he became. 

[Myrelle]

10 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Thank you, CASSEIOPEIA. 

5 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

What is THE photo for you?

 

I remember when this one came out,  too.

It has become Iconic for the show, the actor and his character and one of the best photos that we've ever been gifted  with over the entire 15 years of the show's run, AFAIC.

[roamyn]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:53 PM, ILoveReading said:

I wish they had also followed up on why he never went blind.  I never bought the explanation that it was because he decided to say yes to Michael because planning on doing something is not the same thing as doing it.

That explanation works for me.  And it fits the mythology I think.

[Casseiopeia]

On 1/16/2022 at 10:29 AM, Aithne said:

Good God, he's pretty when he's angry. Or you know, always. 

The one that made me go "whoa" was when he lost his shit on the Impala in ELaC. Favorite... oh man, that's a tough one. There are so many great ones. I'll just pick a cute one at random and think about a serious answer later. The pleased, genuine, ever so slightly bashful "Thank you" in Hollywood Babylon when Tara the horror actress tells him he's a hell of a PA. 

[Aithne]

5 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Lovely, thank you!! So many layers to this because of all that that car represents - Dad, family, himself, the job. His whole life has been about protecting, and now one of his family members died for him and he may have to kill the other, so what was the point of any of it? Just a killer scene. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Aithne

[gonzosgirrl]

Just for posterity, I'm cross posting this from the social media thread. Jensen posted about Dean's birthday. 🥺

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZHjzy3rNmz/

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[tessathereaper]

It's a really sweet message.

[FlickChick]

6 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

It's a really sweet message.

Jensen says it often - that Dean Winchester will be part of him forever. Yes, Dean is missed. 🙁 But, happy birthday, Dean Winchester.

[roamyn]

3 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Jensen says it often - that Dean Winchester will be part of him forever. Yes, Dean is missed. 🙁 But, happy birthday, Dean Winchester.

But as long as there is streaming, DVDs, YouTube…Dean will never really be missed. 

[Casseiopeia]

 

[Myrelle]

Belated birthday wishes to The One and Only Jensen Ackles who gave us The Irrepressible Dean Winchester(as I read on twitter yesterday via one of the studio accounts, I think). 

Thank you so much for the gift of Dean to us, Sir. 

Can't wait for his next role. 

I'm counting down the days

I also read someone's opinion that every year, Jensen's birthday is by far the best day of the year on twitter.

Sure, it's subjective, but I couldn't agree more. So much love for him out there yesterday and I do believe that his fanbase has already increased sizably since Supernatural ended.

His time is coming.

You can feel it.

So glad for him. 🥰

Edited March 2, 2022 by Myrelle

[Aithne]

3 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Belated birthday wishes to The One and Only Jensen Ackles who have us The Irrepressible Dean Winchester(as I read on twitter yesterday via one of the studio accounts, I think). 

Thank you so much for the gift of Dean to us, Sir. 

Can't wait for his next role. 

I'm counting down the days

I also read someone's opinion that every year, Jensen's birthday is by far the best day of the year on twitter.

Sure, it's subjective, but I couldn't agree more. So much love for him out there yesterday and I do believe that his fanbase has already increased sizably since Supernatural ended.

His time is coming.

You can feel it.

So glad for him. 🥰

Well said! Really looking forward to having JA back on my TV, and I hope the Winchesters pilot gets made too, so I can even have Dean back on my screen, if only a little. He is such an iconic, memorable character, and to come out of this little WB/CW show. There are other characters that are sort of like him, archetype-wise, but he undermines the stereotypes at every turn. Your devil-may-care character is often selfish or cynical. Dean's a true believer in the mission of helping others, because of what he went through. Your drifter, love-em-and-leave-em bad boy is typically macho and doesn't really care about the gals he's with. Dean has a varied sex life that doesn't in any way indicate a need for control, he's sweet with his casual hookups but also outdid almost-engaged Sam when it came to intimacy in that he told Cassie what he did for a living, and he was by Lisa's assessment a decent partner and guardian to her son even while in the midst of terrible grief. Your incorruptible hero is typically serious and straight-laced, but Dean is down to earth and full of joie de vivre. And on the flip side, your class clown character isn't often the oldest child with an overdeveloped sense of responsibility, haunted by his perceived failures, compromising his own needs to protect his family. 

He just puts this really unique spin on so many different stereotypes, yet it all fits together seamlessly because of how JA played him - it just all felt totally organic. I don't know that there's ever been another character quite like him. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Aithne
To wax rhapsodic about Dean

[Casseiopeia]

 

[ahrtee]

This may seem extremely silly (or shallow, or both...) but I was admiring how well-manicured Jensen's hands are.  The main reason I noticed (or mentioned) is what I loved so much about Dean is that he had working hands.  That he was often seen with dirt under his nails, and hands scratched and bruised, with painful-looking blood blisters under his nails, and not just when the scene called for it, like when he clawed his way out of his coffin.  It always made him seem more real, and I loved the fact that Jensen or someone took the time to show it.  I love Dean (and Jensen, for making Dean so real)!  

[FlickChick]

On a slightly different note, I often wondered if the script/director called for Jensen to wear Dean's collar up or if that was his idea. Even if it was in the script originally, Dean's collars were up in every episode until the finale. The one exception was when Dean was living with Lisa (S6,E1) and working on a job - his shirt was tucked in and his collar was down. As soon as he joined the family hunters, the collar was up again. I'm sure that continuity was all Jensen. I really miss Dean Winchester!

[Bergamot]

Quote

@Casseiopeia said:

Crowley always had his own agenda. That was the only part of MOC Dean story that bothered me. Dean goes on a quest to kill Gadreel and then suddenly trusts Crowley (who had just recently killed Sarah and almost killed Jody). It didn't gel all that well, at least for me.

I think maybe that Dean joining up with Crowley to find the First Blade was an illustration of the state of mind he was in at that point. When he leaves Sam at the end of “Road Trip”, he is in a very dark, self-loathing space. He tells Sam that he is “poison”, that anyone who gets close to him gets hurt, that he has Kevin’s blood on his hands and will burn in Hell because of it.

I think Dean joins up with Crowley (instead of killing him, as he threatens to do) partly because Crowley offers to give him some information that might be useful, but also partly because Dean feels he is already damned, so he might as well be working with a demon as with anyone else. He is already on a reckless and self-destructive road that will lead to him getting the Mark of Cain.

The other thing is that Dean and Crowley are tied together throughout the series in a pretty complicated way. Like a lot of the other supernatural beings they encounter, Crowley is fascinated by Dean and drawn to him (“Dean Winchester completes me”). He always has an ulterior motive when he helps the Winchesters, but Crowley never quite reaches the point where he takes action to go ahead and take Dean out. And of course the same could be said of Dean on his side, that he never quite reaches that point.

In spite of this I think Dean would have been able to kill Crowley if he had to though. I like what Cain said in “The Executioner’s Song”, where he says that if Dean killed Crowley, it would give Dean some “strange, mixed feelings”, but if Dean had a reason, he would do it without remorse. I think this is true.

I think a parallel relationship for Sam would be his connection to Rowena, who is also someone who is clearly evil in the beginning but who ends up being their ally. I prefer Dean and Crowley though, partly because I felt like the show ended up sentimentalizing Rowena too much in a way they avoided with Crowley. In the process they smoothed away a lot of the sharp edges that made her an interesting character.

Both Rowena and Crowley ended up sacrificing themselves to help the cause of the Winchesters, but I thought that Rowena’s death was again, too sentimentalized and a little overdone, as was Sam’s grief for her afterwards, as if they had been soulmates. Like I said, I prefer Dean’s “strange, mixed feelings” at the demise of what Crowley called their “buddy comedy”.
 

[ahrtee]

6 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

I think Dean joins up with Crowley (instead of killing him, as he threatens to do) partly because Crowley offers to give him some information that might be useful, but also partly because Dean feels he is already damned, so he might as well be working with a demon as with anyone else. He is already on a reckless and self-destructive road that will lead to him getting the Mark of Cain.

And also because he's the one person...um, being...that he can be with without caring if he gets hurt or dies.  If he helps him, good.  If he gets hurt doing it, also good.  And if he works against him, he dies.  All good.  

[DeeDee79]

15 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

I think a parallel relationship for Sam would be his connection to Rowena, who is also someone who is clearly evil in the beginning but who ends up being their ally. I prefer Dean and Crowley though, partly because I felt like the show ended up sentimentalizing Rowena too much in a way they avoided with Crowley. In the process they smoothed away a lot of the sharp edges that made her an interesting character.

Which is standard with anyone that Sam connects with. Rowena was just as evil as Crowley and one could argue that her cruelty towards him during his upbringing was what shaped Fergus into what he later became. Since Crowley only bonded with Dean they couldn't bear to regard him with any sentiment after he was gone even though he literally sacrificed himself for their cause.

[ahrtee]

Crowley was much more interesting and complex because you never knew what he was going to do.  He was a frenemy to Dean but would also happily work against him if it was to his benefit.  We never knew exactly why he was doing something, so it kept us (me) watching and trying to figure out which side he was on and what he would do.  

Rowena, OTOH, started out as pure self-interest and would do anything to get what she wanted, which made her kind of fun to watch.  More amoral than evil, I think.  But the later eps seemed to give her a conscience, which not only sentimentalized her but made her into an entirely different (and much more boring) person.  She might complain loudly but always did what Sam wanted.  It's like she was brainwashed into wanting to be a good person, after 500 or so years of being evil.  That's way too much of an about-face for me (and probably was supposed to be another sign of the Sam-worship that he can redeem the evil just by giving her a puppy face.  At least he didn't have to stamp his foot!)

[Bergamot]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Crowley was much more interesting and complex because you never knew what he was going to do.  He was a frenemy to Dean but would also happily work against him if it was to his benefit.  We never knew exactly why he was doing something, so it kept us (me) watching and trying to figure out which side he was on and what he would do. 

I agree; that's a good description of Crowley! And I am glad that Crowley's motivations were kept ambiguous to the very end, because that's who Crowley was. In "All Along the Watchtower" he tells the Winchesters beforehand that he wants to be on the winning side against Lucifer, and that he is betting on them to be the winners.  But why did he sacrifice himself to enable the Winchesters to trap Lucifer on the other side of the rift? Did Crowley really want to help save the world?  Or was it because he hated Lucifer so much that he would do anything to get revenge on him?

Or maybe it was something else. I have wondered if Crowley felt suicidal at the end. All those centuries of scheming for power, but he admits that he has realized that he hates his job as King of Hell, and is weary of constantly fighting to keep his throne. His grand plan of ruling with Demon Dean at his side, which I think he really really wanted, ended in failure. Maybe he was so tired of it all that he just wanted to end it. I like that we can't know for sure.

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

But the later eps seemed to give her a conscience, which not only sentimentalized her but made her into an entirely different (and much more boring) person.  She might complain loudly but always did what Sam wanted.  It's like she was brainwashed into wanting to be a good person, after 500 or so years of being evil.  That's way too much of an about-face for me 

For me too. For example we see all of Rowena's bitter, relentless scheming to get back at Crowley, her giving Sam the spell to kill him and demanding that he follow through with it -- and then later on in the show, when Crowley is actually gone, suddenly she is all broken and sobbing with grief for her dead son, screaming at Billie that it isn't fair and that she wants him to be brought back. It wasn't believable to me for the character.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Bergamot

[Nick24]

5 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

 Since Crowley only bonded with Dean they couldn't bear to regard him with any sentiment after he was gone even though he literally sacrificed himself for their cause.

This is so sad, that Crowley's sacrifice turned out to be pointless, because the whole point of S13 was ''How do we open that rift again?''. Crowley deserves better.

[Nick24]

7 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I prefer Dean and Crowley though, partly because I felt like the show ended up sentimentalizing Rowena too much in a way they avoided with Crowley. In the process they smoothed away a lot of the sharp edges that made her an interesting character.

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

But the later eps seemed to give her a conscience, which not only sentimentalized her but made her into an entirely different (and much more boring) person.  She might complain loudly but always did what Sam wanted.  It's like she was brainwashed into wanting to be a good person, after 500 or so years of being evil.  That's way too much of an about-face for me (and probably was supposed to be another sign of the Sam-worship that he can redeem the evil just by giving her a puppy face.  At least he didn't have to stamp his foot!)

IMO the problem is that Dabb and Co. were trying to redeem almost every former villain and make them nice - Rowena in S12-13, Ketch in S13, DarkKaia in S14-15, Toni Bevell in 12.22. They were even trying to redeem Lucifer in S13 (Really, show?). That is why no one seemed to be a threat anymore. 

[roamyn]

On 5/30/2022 at 6:25 AM, Nick24 said:

IMO the problem is that Dabb and Co. were trying to redeem almost every former villain and make them nice - Rowena in S12-13, Ketch in S13, DarkKaia in S14-15, Toni Bevell in 12.22. They were even trying to redeem Lucifer in S13 (Really, show?). That is why no one seemed to be a threat anymore. 

I didn’t see them as trying to redeem Lucifer in S13, just to show how manipulative and charming he could be.

Ditto with Toni.  1) there isn’t enough time to redeem her.  2) they had Ketch kill her before the end of the episode.  I think you’re meaning they were trying to humanize her, which is true.  She just wanted a large enough lead to see her son again.  I don’t think she thought beyond that.  In fact it could be implied that she knew she’d be punished by the BMoL for helping reverse Mary’s brainwashing.