S02.E02: Before The Law

[roughing it]

I loved how in this episode, things are starting to tie together. I noticed all of the magazines stacked on the stairs in Peggy's house, in addition to all of them on kitchen chairs from last week's episode. Definitely OCD or hoarder tendencies. And Peggy's boss obvious interest in her - maybe the Lifespring seminar is just her excuse to get her away and make her move.

However, I don't think there were mylar balloons yet in 1979.

[shapeshifter]

I don't think there were mylar balloons yet in 1979.

From Wikipedia:

Beginning in the late 1970s, some more expensive (and longer-lasting) foil balloons made of thin, unstretchable, less permeable metallised films such as Mylar (BoPET) started being produced. These balloons have attractive shiny reflective surfaces and are often printed with color pictures and patterns for gifts and parties. The most important attribute of metallised nylon for balloons is its lightweight, increasing buoyancy and its ability to keep the helium gas from escaping for several weeks. Foil balloons have been criticized for interfering with power lines.

Maybe the writers were inspired by this to have that balloon initially entangled in a power line, reflecting light into stoned Rye's eyes.

[ChipBach]

I loved how in this episode, things are starting to tie together. I noticed all of the magazines stacked on the stairs in Peggy's house, in addition to all of them on kitchen chairs from last week's episode. Definitely OCD or hoarder tendencies. And Peggy's boss obvious interest in her - maybe the Lifespring seminar is just her excuse to get her away and make her move.

However, I don't think there were mylar balloons yet in 1979.

I thought the mylar was an anachronism too.  She was definitely trying to get her alone in their single hotel room.  I think she also called her "sexy", etc.  Peggy is a great character so far.  The shots of her completely oblivious to the guy in her windshield while brushing her hair or preparing dinner without a single plan about what to do about the body makes her a real psycho. It will be interesting to learn what she is really about.  I'm guessing something really demented. 

[Adusk81]

I don't know why but when Ed parks his truck facing the wrong way in front of the shop before going into make Rye sausage, I couldn't get over how much that bugged me. It almost gave me anxiety. Was there some sort of meaning to that? Why would he intentionally park the wrong way? He is clearly a simple man, but damn. And then Lou doesn't even mention it. What am I missing here?

[Ohwell]

I think Ed knows his wife is batshit and is afraid of her.  At some point, I can see him making ground Peggy.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

As Kansas City Makes It To Fargo, The Crime Rate Goes Up
Let's rank the criminal offenses of 'Before The Law'!

[Duke2801]

Makes me glad I can watch this show on Netflix a day later. It didn't feel too long for me, although I agree that a couple of scenes didn't absolutely need all of their length.

 

Loving the season so far. That scene with Hank and Milligan was really chilling. Danson, Woodbine and Dunst are already strong favorites for season MVP for me, so hopefully none get killed too early. Dunst's Peggy intrigues me the most so far. I severely doubt we've seen her last crime for the season, curios how deep down the rabbit hole she'll go.

 

I'm also curios about the role the aliens will play. Obviously there won't be actual aliens within the events, but it seems they do serve a narrative purpose. Maybe it's a play on the role of the audience, who isn't only observing, but changes events by its mere presence/existence? Rye probably wouldn't have been hit by the car and the events would've unfolded in an entirely different way, a way that wouldn't have been as satisfying to the audience. I doubt it's exactly that, but maybe something along the line.

 

The obvious reference would be "The man who wasn't there", but out of curiosity I googled the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books - and the first one was released in 1979, the year the show is set. It's something about time travel, which we won't get of course, although we did travel backwards in time from season one to season two. Peggy seems to have the Lester role from last year, who (same as Jerry Lundegard in the movie) functioned as the protagonist, in the same way the murderer was always the protagonist of his story in "Columbo". The way the pilot begins is that you'd assume Rye would take that role, but he doesn't - because of the UFO/audience intervention, he gets hit by Peggy, who thereby "steals" his role. Maybe we're choosing her adventure instead...

 

How do you watch on Netflix?  Do you mean Hulu? 

 

Well, I'm not quite sure I actually wanted this question answered, but thanks to that fireplace scene, I guess it's safe to say that Jesse Plemons really did put on a lot of weight for this role.

 

 

Yes he was sporting some serious moobs!

[atir]

Maybe he's named Rye because his family grows rye in order to make their beautiful breads.

Of course, this doesn't explain brother Bear's name.

[Conan Troutman]

How do you watch on Netflix?  Do you mean Hulu?

 

Netflix has first run rights in a couple of European countries (including Germany, where I'm from, and the Netherlands), making the new episodes available every Wednesday. They did that earlier this year with Better Call Saul and Orphan Black and hopefully more shows in the future. You can also access those countries via VPN or DNS service (unless you still have the DVD package, it won't work then).

Edited October 24, 2015 by Conan Troutman

[Rhetorica]

I wonder if the aliens will never be explained, much like the raining fish from last year.

[Bort]

I wonder if the aliens will never be explained, much like the raining fish from last year.

They did explain the raining fish, a tornado had picked them up.

[AimingforYoko]

From Wikipedia:

Beginning in the late 1970s, some more expensive (and longer-lasting) foil balloons made of thin, unstretchable, less permeable metallised films such as Mylar (BoPET) started being produced. These balloons have attractive shiny reflective surfaces and are often printed with color pictures and patterns for gifts and parties. The most important attribute of metallised nylon for balloons is its lightweight, increasing buoyancy and its ability to keep the helium gas from escaping for several weeks. Foil balloons have been criticized for interfering with power lines.

Maybe the writers were inspired by this to have that balloon initially entangled in a power line, reflecting light into stoned Rye's eyes.

Speaking of getting the little things right, Ed drives a Ford F-150. If you drove a pickup truck in Minnesota in 1979, there was a 9 in 10 chance you drove a F-150.

[benteen]

Really good episode once again.  I'm enjoying this.  I didn't recognize Jean Smart at first but she's terrific.  She's an actress who can bounce back and forth between doing comedies and drama.  Dunst has been a strong performer too so far and Danson is terrific.  I can definitely understand him not being in a posiition to act with those three guys more than a similiar situation last year because he was completely outnumbered.

 

I did notice one mistake though...Lou talks about serving in Vietnam in 1974, a year after the United States had ended military operations there.

Edited October 26, 2015 by benteen

[violetr]

I LOVE this show. I hope each ep just continues to improve upon the previous one. So far we're off to a great start. I love the long takes that just settle in on a character and his or her actions. It gives me a really clear sense of who they are, the various emotions they may be feeling, and how their actions and the actions of others have an impact on them. Just wonderful directing. 

 

I'm curious about some of the characters' ethnic/cultural backgrounds. I can't imagine that the Gerhardt's are Jewish, but all that bread definitely looked like Challah. Also, Brad Garrett's character Joe Bulo used the word “farkakte,” which is a Yiddish word that broadly translates as "messed up" or "crappy." Intriguing. 

[John Potts]

Definitely in the "loved it" camp, even if it could do with a little tighter editing (its UK run time of 80 minutes could easily be cut to an hour). Nice to see that Molly got her "detective genes" from both sides of her family (I'm sure she could have found a way to pick up the gun without handling it, though I suppose making sure Molly didn't play with it was higher in her priorities)*. Liked Ted Danson facing down "The Outfit" - bold but not stupid (and he had nothing to hold them on, so had to let them go) - nice call back (call forward?) to Gus' confrontation with Malvo last Season.

 

As for the mob war: unless the Gerhardts resolve their succession crisis quickly they're going to get steamrolled. Mom has the, errm... balls to pose a real challenge (loved her handling of her son!) but my money would still be on the corporates in the long run. 

 

Bentley I guess Mike's silent henchmen are the precursor to the Peter Stormare villain in the movie

 

I was wondering if they were Mr Numbers/Mr Wrench's father (OK, deafness is rarely inherited)!

 

Spartan Girl The meat grinder scene was so gross...does this mean Ed is going to sell the human meat?

 

To quote Bismarck, "Laws are like sausages: nobody wants to see how they're made" (well, in translation). And selling human meat as "pork" has a long history.

 

ETA: * Actually, watching the scene again, Mrs Solverson IS wearing gloves when Molly hands her the balloon, but isn't wearing them when she picks up the gun. Now it's possible that she took them off while the camera cuts away, but it would be a very odd thing to do (even leaving aside the "fingerprints!" aspect, that gun would be literally ice cold, so you definitely wouldn't want to touch it with bare skin).

Edited November 1, 2015 by John Potts

[Inquisitionist]

 

 

Netflix has first run rights in a couple of European countries (including Germany, where I'm from, and the Netherlands), making the new episodes available every Wednesday.

 

It's also available on amazon.com, but you have to buy the episodes.  I'm fine with Ffwding through commercials, but I'm surprised Comcast doesn't have the 2nd season available On Demand, as FX allowed with Justified and The Americans.

 

I chugged through the first two episodes of S2 last night in an effort to catch up with you all.  So far, I've seen only the first two episodes of S1 as well, so I can't compare the two.  But I'm enjoying both very much.  Did not recognize Jean Smart as Floyd.  Still trying to figure out why Bokeem Woodbine looks so familiar (his IMDb credits aren't helping me out).  He's terrific.  And I'd agree that Ted Danson has become a better actor over time.  Loved him in Damages a few years back.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Inquisitionist

[shapeshifter]

I'm curious about some of the characters' ethnic/cultural backgrounds. I can't imagine that the Gerhardt's are Jewish, but all that bread definitely looked like Challah. Also, Brad Garrett's character Joe Bulo used the word “farkakte,” which is a Yiddish word that broadly translates as "messed up" or "crappy." Intriguing.

Yeah, that word seemed like an odd clue, but I assumed the bread was supposed to be Swedish (http://scandinavianfood.about.com/od/coffeecakessweetbreads/r/sweetyeastbread.htm) but that maybe the props people substituted Challah. Stay tuned.

I did notice one mistake though...Lou talks about serving in Vietnam in 1974, a year after the United States had ended military operations there.

There were still "advisors" (http://www.pbs.org/battlefieldvietnam/timeline/index4.html). Lou might've even been involved in the final airlift the following year. Maybe that year was named to indicate he didn't see the kind of combat that would give him severe PTSD. It could also just be to match his age, but how old is he supposed to be? If he was drafted in 1973 at eighteen, he'd only be 24 in 79, which doesn't seem likely. Is he a college grad? That could make him 28. Patrick Wilson is 42, so I'm guessing Lou is supposed to be at least 32.

ETA: Are we sure he didn't say he was in Vietnam in 1964 instead of 1974? That would make him 34ish.

Edited November 1, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Beth64]

He was good in Body Heat, a pre-Cheers role.

Very good in Damages, too, more recently.

[cpcathy]

And Bored to Death, he stole every scene he was in.

[Inquisitionist]

Patrick Wilson is 42, so I'm guessing Lou is supposed to be at least 32.

 

Keith Carradine is 66 and Lou in 2006 looks at least about that old to me.  That would put Lou in his late 30s in 1979, which doesn't really make sense with the Viet Nam timeline.  Won't fuss about it too much.  Wilson and Carradine are both good actors!

[AuntiePam]

On 10/21/2015 at 4:38 AM, mlmiller707 said:

I am confused. The murder took place at a WH in ND or MN. I believe it was MN, why was a judge from ND there? They are 3 hrs from each other. What type of business do the ND (Michael Weston's family) own? How did these mobsters from KC know about them and a recent stroke? Thanks

 

Rewatched and can answer part of this -- the KC gang probably found out about Otto's stroke

 

from Simone.

 

We'll probably never know why the ND judge was in MN -- could have been visiting some family, or maybe she's one of those traveling judges.

 

Something I didn't notice until a second viewing was the maneuvering at the Gerhardt table, after everyone else had left (except Hanzee).  Floyd and Dodd both moved to sit in Otto's chair but Floyd got there first.  Dodd gave her a look, then smirked and moved to the other end of the table.  He didn't take the chair next to Floyd, where he had sat before when Otto was at the head.  So he can tell himself he's at the head of the table -- he's the Boss. 

[Stratego]

On 12/12/2015 at 10:11 PM, AuntiePam said:

Rewatched and can answer part of this -- the KC gang probably found out about Otto's stroke

from Simone.

 

We'll probably never know why the ND judge was in MN -- could have been visiting some family, or maybe she's one of those traveling judges.

 

Something I didn't notice until a second viewing was the maneuvering at the Gerhardt table, after everyone else had left (except Hanzee).  Floyd and Dodd both moved to sit in Otto's chair but Floyd got there first.  Dodd gave her a look, then smirked and moved to the other end of the table.  He didn't take the chair next to Floyd, where he had sat before when Otto was at the head.  So he can tell himself he's at the head of the table -- he's the Boss. 

Gerhardts--have been in power for quite a while.  Otto "took over" in 1951 (apparently from an older brother, as seen in Ep 1)--his father started the "business" after he emigrated from Germany in 1919.

We were never informed why the Fargo judge was in Luverne--except as a plot device!

[AuntiePam]

This flew by me the first time, but on rewatch, when Betsy asks Molly what she's going to name her snowman, Molly says "Billy Bob".

[shapeshifter]

This flew by me the first time, but on rewatch, when Betsy asks Molly what she's going to name her snowman, Molly says "Billy Bob".

Awesome catch!

[AuntiePam]

Something else I just noticed -- when Ed is parked on the street, waiting for things to clear so he can take Rye's body inside the butcher shop -- the people getting into the yellow car down the block are Constance and Peggy. 

[donkeyshot]

This flew by me the first time, but on rewatch, when Betsy asks Molly what she's going to name her snowman, Molly says "Billy Bob".

Molly says "maybe Bob" (that's how it's translated via netflix). Keep finding it very strange Betsy takes of her glove while picking up the gun. I think it's a director's 'fault'.

[AuntiePam]

Molly says "maybe Bob" (that's how it's translated via netflix). Keep finding it very strange Betsy takes of her glove while picking up the gun. I think it's a director's 'fault'.

 

Phooey.  I like Billy Bob better.  ;-)

 

Re picking up the gun -- if she was wearing knitted gloves (I think she was), maybe she took them off to get a better grip on the gun barrel.  Knitted mittens aren't good for gripping.  And whatever she was wearing would have had snow on them, from making the snowman, so they'd be slippery.

[SoWindsor]

 

I'm curious about some of the characters' ethnic/cultural backgrounds. I can't imagine that the Gerhardt's are Jewish, but all that bread definitely looked like Challah. Also, Brad Garrett's character Joe Bulo used the word “farkakte,” which is a Yiddish word that broadly translates as "messed up" or "crappy." Intriguing.

Yes I noticed the same. They also used the Yiddish word schvartze so I figured they must be Jewish.

[Dev F]

I've been rewatching season 2 of Fargo on Blu-ray, and I got a lot more out of "Before the Law" this time around. It's a hugely important episode for setting up the counterpoint

between Betsy/Molly/Lou and Floyd/Simone/Dodd that ends up being central to the rest of the season. Basically, in Betsy and Floyd you have two loving, supportive mother figures to Molly and Simone, respectively, but Simone, unfortunately, also has an absolute creep of a father who from their very first scene together proceeds to undermine everything Floyd is trying to instill in her granddaughter ("She shouldn't be in here. . . . She's a girl").

 

But Betsy's example to her daughter is bolstered by the much more positive influence of the men in her life, first embodied in her father, who patiently indulges Molly's interruptions of "Papa, papa!" as he tries to have a conversation with Betsy. (I wonder if this is one of the series' many callbacks to the larger oeuvre of the Coen Brothers, meant to evoke the scene in Miller's Crossing in which Johnny Caspar's young son barges into his office shouting, "Papa, papa! I got a prize from the sisters!" over and over again, only to meet with a much less understanding reaction from his vicious hypocrite of a father.) Hank then tells Molly the story of how he would capitulate to his daughter's gentle pleadings when she was young ("'Daddy, how would you feel if I peeled the roof of your house and ate you?' . . . That's the story of how your mom and me came to eat hot dogs for dinner once again"), suggesting that his influence is a major reason why Betsy is now such a tough cookie.

 

So I think this naturally leads Betsy to wonder whether her husband can provide the same influence for Molly that Hank did for her, especially as she contemplates her probably impending death. That seems to be part of the unspoken tension in the subsequent scene at the Waffle Hut, where Lou suddenly turns their family lunch outing into a trip to a crime scene, and Betsy tries to distract Molly with snowman-building only to have the discovery of the deflated "Get Well Soon" balloon and then the murder weapon remind her of her own mortality and the inescapable intrusions of her husband's career.

 

Lou himself expresses many of the same worries later in the episode, when he frets about the crime scene dredging up his war memories. The story he tells is of a young kid on his boat in Vietnam who was shot in the head by a sniper after he gave away his position by lighting up a cigar. To me the most salient detail is that he "picked up the [cigar] habit from his granddad, he said." His life was destroyed by the unhealthy influence of his forebears -- like what Dodd threatens to do to Simone, and Lou fears he'll do to his own daughter. Or as Hank puts it, "Sometimes wonder if you boys didn't bring that war home with you."

Edited March 25, 2017 by Dougal
Hid minor spoiler for later in the season.

[halgia]

Just as a reminder, the general rule on this site is that episode threads shouldn't contain untagged spoilers from any later in the season, so that people catching up later can read safely. They ones in this thread were pretty mild, but I went back and spoiler-tagged them to be safe. Thanks for pointing this out, @Winston9-DT3.

[AuntiePam]

Rewatching for the third time -- damn, but this show is good, and noticed something new.  It probably doesn't signify anything but now I'll be watching for something similar in upcoming episodes. 

I'll box this, even though it's not much of a spoiler -- it has to do with what Peggy is wearing:

Spoiler

We see her in the pink blouse in the bathroom -- there's a speck of blood on the collar.  Then we see her in the multi-colored striped sweater, fixing supper when Ed comes home.  The next morning, she's wearing the blue skirt and vest.  But in the meantime, we see her sitting on the basement steps (in a split screen) and she's wearing the gray slacks and blouse that she wore in the final few episodes.  I suppose this could have been an editing mistake, because surely she didn't change clothes three times in one night.  It's like we're seeing a future Peggy.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/19/2015 at 11:24 PM, AimingforYoko said:

If anybody wondered, the ending narration is from War of the Worlds.

Weird I just watched it on Netflix and there is no narration at the end. I even turned the captions on to make sure it wasn't quiet. Once Ed hangs up with Peggy it is just music.