The Path - General Discussion

[Dminches]

Why do I think Abe is going to turn?  He has a potential love interest.  Does Eddie have special "powers?"  He dreamed much of the sequence that occurred with his kidnapping before it happened.  Something is up there.

Cal, or should I say Hugh Dancy, is the best.  I hate the character but Dancy is superb.  He is always one missed deep breath away from exploding.

[hincandenza]

Speaking of which, no Abe tonight.  Not sure how I feel about the Cal "revelation"; it was kind of hinted at a couple of episodes ago, but it's not like this somehow magically makes the evil things he's done "okay".  Nevertheless, he failed upwards with his new sugar momma, so there's a chance that between her and possibly that pop star, they get enough cash to mollify the IRS and right the ship.  If only a woman who knows she is already under surveillance by the FBI didn't think overt blackmail was the best possible idea at this exact moment.  I mean jeez lady, maybe just send out a vaguely worded mailing seeking help from non-compound members, asking for special fundraising help to pay off the tax bill, and offhandedly mentioning the fear that the compound and all documents and media within (wink wink) might get permanently seized by the IRS.   Then again, I don't know why I'm 18 episodes into this show and still expecting Cal and Sarah to ever behave remotely like normal, sane people.

I still don't get how they went bad so quickly or how they owed the IRS so much all of a sudden, when they've never been a religion before (they made a point in that first episode this season to show how their finances were strong enough), but I guess we should just imagine that the retroencabulator overheated in the spurving bearings along its hydrocoptic marzel valve, and ... (hand wavey stuff) ... that's why they're magically completely bankrupt at the worst possible time.

 

Looks like I basically called it about Eddie; he may indeed be the reluctant messiah even as the Meyer cult potentially falls down around the v1 crew.  It'll be odd if the end game of the season is Meyerism somehow newer, bigger, stronger, better- but since the FBI is still going to want their pound of flesh, Sarah and Cal have to go down at some point.  Will we see Eddie as a single parent (with Sarah on trial/in jail) and leader of the fractured Meyerists, having sold off the city center and push them back to their core focus in the Garden?

Edited March 8, 2017 by hincandenza

[General Days]

I am not convinced you all are right about the introduction of the supernatural.

Hawk perceived himself to levitate, so we *saw* him levitating. That doesn't mean he levitated.

Eddie's having panic attacks in which he envisions seemingly supernatural scenarios. That doesn't mean he's experiencing the supernatural.

If this show is going to be any bit of good, it has to show that the cultist characters have some real connection and belief to the cult's system.

I don't think we're supposed to interpret Hawk's floating and Eddie's snake visions as having happened as real life. I think we're supposed to understand that this is what they think happened.

Why is everyone so sure they've gone supernatural?

Edited March 10, 2017 by General Days

[hincandenza]

4 hours ago, General Days said:

I don't think we're supposed to interpret Hawk's floating and Eddie's snake visions as having happened as real life. I think we're supposed to understand that this is what they think happened.

Why is everyone so sure they've gone supernatural?

I wouldn't say I'm sure, as they've kept it nebulous so far, but I think it's an Occam's Razor thing: unless we're shown specifically the events were just hallucinations, we might as well take them at face value.  I get your point, though.  It's equally possible that we are expected to assume it's all cult self-delusion and none of the mysticism was real, and in season 1 that certainly was how the show leaned until the last couple of episodes.  In season 1, all that talk about the The Ladder and The Light were just part of the brainwashing, and to contrast how the inner circle 10/11Rs certainly didn't act like they were still in touch with something divine.  It was a very human show in this regard, with a backdrop of a fictional cult to explore the way faith- or loss of it- plays out in people's quotidian lives.  Plus, with the revelations of this most recent episode, it certainly would be bold to have the cult leader be undeniably both abusive pedophile and a true prophet in touch with the divine.

That said, I think both in season 1 and even more in season 2 there have been a few things that were simply inexplicable without presuming something supernatural.  Off the top of my head, just last episode Eddie dreamed the lead-up to his abduction, down to the location and specific tree (that he presumably had never seen before)- it was the reason he pulled over.  Last season, Eddie (and possibly Sarah? My memory fails me...) also had visions that I think were proven in a small way to be clairvoyant, which ultimately led him to go to Peru where he discovered Steve suddenly healthy and walking around.  Well, for a few minutes at least.  :)

The big one is of course is Hawk floating.  If he really floated, it is odd that it was only acknowledged one time, when Eddie told him that he also had believed he floated when he did 1R.  But personally, I think that was meant as more dramatic (delayed?) irony.  I think we the audience are supposed to trust that Hawk truly floated (the show is done in 3rd person omniscient viewpoint), and thus cynical jaded Eddie was quickly dismissing an actual mystical experience his son had, just as easily as he had dismissed his own experiences (his R experience, the visions last season, the Steve/lightning strike event, etc) that originally led him to Meyerism.  

I say that speculatively of course, because I believe that this season is clearly showing Eddie/Hawk as twin arcs towards piety and true faith, bending towards Eddie coming back to Meyerism and regaining his faith in a big way just as Cal and Sarah drift out.  They could only have his character be on the fringe for so long, because it's sure not Hugh Dancy's name listed in the producer credits. :)  Having Eddie end up as the new leader- now backed by Richard, along with finally accepting his own mystical experiences with Steve- seems inevitable for the show to continue.  However, the flock would never accept him without some convincing reason... such as a crowd-witnessed supernatural event.  It would certainly be a way of twisting things up for a season 3: Meyerism- and all its historical baggage- suddenly catapulted into much more prominence when their new leader (and his son?) can provably perform small miracles.

But yeah, this is just me spitballin', out of sheer boredom.  I may very well be wrong, and it'd be just as interesting a show if they keep it uncertain.

[Broderbits]

If I hadn't seen her name in the opening credits I never would have recognized Melanie Griffith. That plastic surgery is horrendous.

[General Days]

On 3/10/2017 at 3:54 AM, hincandenza said:

I wouldn't say I'm sure, as they've kept it nebulous so far, but I think it's an Occam's Razor thing: unless we're shown specifically the events were just hallucinations, we might as well take them at face value.  I get your point, though.  It's equally possible that we are expected to assume it's all cult self-delusion and none of the mysticism was real, and in season 1 that certainly was how the show leaned until the last couple of episodes.  In season 1, all that talk about the The Ladder and The Light were just part of the brainwashing, and to contrast how the inner circle 10/11Rs certainly didn't act like they were still in touch with something divine.  It was a very human show in this regard, with a backdrop of a fictional cult to explore the way faith- or loss of it- plays out in people's quotidian lives.  Plus, with the revelations of this most recent episode, it certainly would be bold to have the cult leader be undeniably both abusive pedophile and a true prophet in touch with the divine.

That was a really thoughtful answer, Hincadenza (all of it; I only quoted part of it as not to take up the whole page). I think you've convinced me it's more likely supernatural than not. 

[hincandenza]

Well, I guess I pretty much called it!  :) The inner circle is starting to rally behind Eddie, and Cal/Sarah have absolutely no idea.  That makes it rather tragic for them: they are sacrificing their futures and freedom to keep the Meyerist movement alive- and admittedly, they did a pretty great job on that stage- even as the people they are doing it for are about to oust them as leaders if not as members.  Well, not that tragic since every problem they're fixing was caused by Sarah and Cal to begin with.  

With four episodes left Abe has plenty of time to crack the blackmail routine and bring down at least Sarah, and Cal if he somehow finds out about Silas.  As an aside, I'm curious about the legality of him breaking into the archives room and whatever he finds there- I'm not a lawyer, but even/especially for an undercover agent it seems very "fruit of the poisoned tree" to break into a secure area- and not sure what he was hoping/expecting to find since he basically already knows they are being blackmailed.  It wasn't clear to me if Sarah was selling the donors their unburdening tapes back, like the one she gave to the IRS woman, or simply blackmailing them with the fear of future leaking if they talk.  I still think Sarah could have had as much success without being quite so obviously blackmailing if she'd simply told them that they'd lost their attempt to be get religious status with the IRS, had a large tax bill, and the compound- and all its assets and materials- are in danger of being seized.  The pedophile family guy (he was a child molester, right?) certainly would have done the math with less of a clear cut case of blackmail like they certainly have now, since we saw something like 20-30 names on the list of whom some may be willing to testify.

I'm thinking here, but while we know Cal is dirty as hell, I don't think Abe actually has anything concrete on him, does he?  It could be that Sarah- the only one on that tape talking to the IRS woman (over whom she now has no leverage), and who was the singular force behind the blackmail to raise the tax funds- takes the full fall for Meyerism's sins.  Abe and the FBI might decide all they can prove is that she acted alone, so she goes to prison and is a black eye to the movement so the FBI is sated and moves on.  Cal is sidelined as co-guardian but his story becomes one of genuinely trying to be good and regain his faith (his nausea over Sarah's blackmail, and his inability to exploit the teen pop star); I was thinking when he was telling Sarah in Boston how his faith has cracked, that he should set a precedent and declare to the Meyerists that he has gotten too tied up in worldly things, and is voluntarily dropping down to like 4R, and restarting this climb up the ladder.  Meanwhile, Eddie leads the flock back to its roots and Meyerism has a growth spurt in season 3.  

Er, if there is a season 3, as I've not heard if Hulu has renewed this show.  I still like it and have friends who watch as well, but if this forum is any indication maybe they just aren't finding the audience.

[Broderbits]

On March 15, 2017 at 4:46 PM, hincandenza said:

I'm not a lawyer, but even/especially for an undercover agent it seems very "fruit of the poisoned tree" to break into a secure area- and not sure what he was hoping/expecting to find since he basically already knows they are being blackmailed.

Abe was given the job of security manager for the compound, so it would seem a reasonable part of his job to be searching everywhere except maybe individuals' living spaces. And even there, how much privacy can there be in a communal living situation?

I feel absolutely no sympathy for Cal or Sarah: he's a murderer and she's a blackmailer. They're both despicable and parading around like they're so spiritually evolved. Their dual speech was pretty funny though: all those deluded people smiling and nodding over what was basically the Beatles' All You Need Is Love.

[Duke2801]

Yeah I'm late to this party.  Almost one year to be exact.  But I just started watching it.

I feel like I'm watching a different show than most people who have commented.  I'm having almost no problem understanding what's going on, even with the flashbacks, etc. (and this is by somebody who's always turning to her significant other during The Americans and Homeland and going "Wait, WHAT just happened...?") 

And I'm finding this show really good and intriguing.  The acting from Aaron Paul and Hugh Dancy is top notch, and respectable enough from Michelle Monoghan (sp?) and the teenage son.  I'm only on episode 3 but I feel a weekend binge coming on!

Come to think of it, though, maybe I have a greater appreciation/understanding of what they are going for here having seen and read a lot of Scientology-related stuff in the last year, like Going Clear, the Leah Remini stuff (book and tv show), and the Jenna Miscavage book.

[hincandenza]

Belated commenting since, well... it's not like this place is blowing up with "The Path" chatter. :)  I'll be honest, I really enjoy this show.  I look forward to it on Tuesday nights after I get back from my weekly pub trivia (5 wins in the last 7 weeks, yo!), I enjoy the acting, and I enjoy the themes and stories.  No, it's not perfect, and it's not like I can't see where this is going weeks in advance... but it's still fun and well produced.

As soon as everyone threw their mini-coffins into water- while Cal is talking about "burning" the past- I laughed, because I pictured Cal in snorkel gear going out there at 1am to gather all that juicy blackmail dirt on people.  Classic Richard, too: "forgive me", then not only reads the private thoughts but passes them on to Eddie because he's seamlessly transferred his cult worship from Steve to Eddie.  Granted, if anyone but Sarah had been the victim of this, I'd feel bad for them, but, you know... Eddie continues his smooth transition into cult leader, including his "I can never be a leader!" doubt that is about to be erased when it turns out most of the Meyerists secretly agree with him on the Denier thing.

Is it wrong I'm rooting for both Abe and the Meyerists?  I really want Sarah led away in handcuffs, Cal falling apart watching this... and yet Meyerism persists.  Other than the cult behavior, actually, there's a lot about Meyerism that is appealing!  Granted, you can say that about most cults, since it's the whole cut-off-from-family, abusive control thing that makes it a cult. :)

I don't think we know yet if the show has been renewed for a third season; I'd personally like one, but if this forum is any indication Hulu may decided two is enough.

[Dminches]

Really enjoying this season too.  It if fun to watch an organization implode from the core.  Richard is the true believer and will stop at nothing to see Steve's vision continued, even if it is led by denier Eddie.  I really can't wait to see the episode when Sarah and Cal learn that Eddie is the one.  Great move by Richard to show Eddie Sarah's restitution note.  He hates Cal with a passion.  This will put him over the edge.

I also like that Ashley returned to help expose Cal's evilness in Hawk's eyes.  Eddie it going to need Hawk to support him.

[Dminches]

Another great episode but I cannot believe Eddie didn't tell Sarah that he is the chosen one.  That information could have turned the tide with her relationship with Cal.  Same with Hawk.  What good is it for him to tell Sarah's dad?  The 2 people most important to him and who he needs to get back on his side need to know.  

[Wicked]

Anyone know how many more episodes this season?

[Dminches]

2 more.

[hincandenza]

14 hours ago, Dminches said:

Another great episode but I cannot believe Eddie didn't tell Sarah that he is the chosen one.  That information could have turned the tide with her relationship with Cal.  Same with Hawk.  What good is it for him to tell Sarah's dad?  The 2 people most important to him and who he needs to get back on his side need to know.  

I agree, but one thing I like is that the show writes Hawk like, well, a child.  His arguments to Eddie were so transparent and flawed, and it even left it uncertain (to me) as to how much Hawk was a part of the beating.  It seems he intended for Eddie to get confronted, and considers that a "just" punishment.  He's a 17-year-old kid, and as dumb as one too for all his good qualities and motivations.

I also like that the show wasn't really ambiguous about Eddie as the new leader: he was showing all the same hyperaggressive, narcissistic traits that Cal had been famous for, from his "I am the one!" bragging at Cal, to harassing Sarah's dad about spying.  Between that and Cal having a nightmare about his sexual abuser lest we forget the great Steve was anything other than a creep, they are balancing the woo-woo Meyerist stuff (which of course sounds good on paper) with how its allegedly most devout practitioners completely forget all of it in day to day life.  They stand on the stage and talk about "5 minutes", then go kill/assault/blackmail/threaten/harass anyone who doesn't agree with them.  Meyerism needs a reboot, but Eddie's high-strung attitude won't get them there no matter how many minor miracles he takes part in.  Which as an aside is something that reads off to me; he knowingly slept with another woman for weeks, once he finally accepted his Denier status and moved on from Sarah if not his kids- and I get it hurts to find out she's moved on to Cal of all people- but shouldn't he be past the extreme rage phase, especially over infidelity when he's not been faithful either?

I enjoy that the Abe and DeKaan plots are actually paying off (and that unlike so many characters in these kinds of situations, Abe actually recognizes and acknowledges the political fuckery, without denying that the Meyerists and Cal/Sarah are not exactly wholesome).  It continues to be clear that they're setting up a season 3 where Meyerism is out of trouble with the FBI and presumably has a new leader/focus/change... but they've got to leave a fly in the ointment, or there's no dramatic impetus.

[hincandenza]

Oof- I didn't need quite so graphic a depiction of Mary giving birth.  Also, a country clinic is nice and all you guys, but maybe take her to the actual hospital?!?  It also took me an embarrassingly long time to realize what Sarah was glaring at Cal for from the moment they saw Mary and her baby on the roadside, right up until she snarked at Cal when walking out about "holding your son" and I thought "How does she know which one is the fath- oh.  Right.  I am an idiot."  On the plus side, while I completely suck at Punnett squares, I'm apparently a post-racial enlightened colorblind person.  So I got that going for me.

Poor Richard; and yet, in a way, he's getting what he wanted.  His death will likely mean a great deal to Meyerism, as the literal and figurative flame applied to the many smoldering coals throughout this season.  People can no longer sit idly by what with Richard's big speech and explosive suicide, and Eddie's just been pulled back into the mix.  They're going to have to pick sides, and among the top rungs there's a lot of people who are secretly pulling for Eddie- especially with growing support for reforming the Denier movement.  Hawk, Russell, and tentatively Bill will be resistant.  However, from her speech to Cal, if Sarah goes to jail she's probably going to drag him down for murder as well (and might even get a plea deal out of it).  This all blackens the eyes of the Meyerist movement publicly, but may be for the best: Eddie comes in and reforms the Denier policy and the unburdening policy, brings back many Deniers and "IS" people, and focuses on "building the garden" more than expanding out and getting fame.  Hopefully along the way, Eddie loses that 'tude and starts being the kind of humble leader Meyerism actually needs, forgiving, compassionate, and human.

It sounds so happily ever after, that surely something horrible is going to happen before we get there.

[laurakaye]

Agree with @Duke2801.  I too am an avid watcher of Leah Remini's Scientology series on A&E, and I see many similarities between "Meyerism" and Scientology, down to Cal giving me a strong David Miscavige vibe.

And having just slogged my way through This is Us where the characters are all made of cardboard (my very unpopular opinion), it's fantastic to see characters wear so many conflicting emotion on their faces and interact with each other when you know there's a complex story there, but we don't have all the pieces yet.  I'm hooked.

[CofCinci]

RIP Richard. 

[Wicked]

There will be a season 3.  Loved season 1, was disappointed in season 2.  Hope season 3 is an improvement.

http://deadline.com/2017/04/the-path-renewed-season-3-hulu-1202068220/

[hincandenza]

2 hours ago, Wicked said:

There will be a season 3.  Loved season 1, was disappointed in season 2.  Hope season 3 is an improvement.

http://deadline.com/2017/04/the-path-renewed-season-3-hulu-1202068220/

Yeah... I'm collecting my thoughts before posting on the general season 2 thread, but as much as I defended it over the past few weeks, I found the season 2 finale to be a huge disappointment last night.

So I'm not sure why I'd want to tune in for a season 3, since I'm pretty sure the past two seasons have led to no actual changes beyond a couple of minor character deaths.

[Madding crowd]

I was sad to see no more individual episodes because I don't know anyone personally who watches the show and there is a lot to discuss. It took me awhile to get this because I cancelled Hulu for a few months but it was worth it for the strong acting. I think Paul and Dancy doing a good job at playing anguished people-I suspected Cal was deeply distrubed in some way so I wasn't surprised at the reveal about Steve. Sara continues to be ice cold to me and I just can't stand her character. She seems to care only about herself and her position.

Did anyone else feel like they missed an episode between the second to last and the last. I stopped it twice to make sure I didn't miss something. Mary her baby (and somehow cut the umbilical cord and cleaned and wrapped the baby in the woods) and then we suddenly see Sara living in Canada. The pacing of the show needs some work-some episodes were so slow and then they skip over parts. I guess the next season will be Mary and Cal versus Eddie versus Sara. Could be interesting. I hope they leave out the supernatural stuff-there is enough of the story without it. 

[hincandenza]

16 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I was sad to see no more individual episodes because I don't know anyone personally who watches the show and there is a lot to discuss. It took me awhile to get this because I cancelled Hulu for a few months but it was worth it for the strong acting. I think Paul and Dancy doing a good job at playing anguished people-I suspected Cal was deeply distrubed in some way so I wasn't surprised at the reveal about Steve. Sara continues to be ice cold to me and I just can't stand her character. She seems to care only about herself and her position.

Did anyone else feel like they missed an episode between the second to last and the last. I stopped it twice to make sure I didn't miss something. Mary her baby (and somehow cut the umbilical cord and cleaned and wrapped the baby in the woods) and then we suddenly see Sara living in Canada. The pacing of the show needs some work-some episodes were so slow and then they skip over parts. I guess the next season will be Mary and Cal versus Eddie versus Sara. Could be interesting. I hope they leave out the supernatural stuff-there is enough of the story without it. 

Yeah, I kind of wished for more talk per episode, but I guess there just weren't the people here to watch it.  I think Reddit has a more thriving Path section (including some interesting gossip/stories behind the scenes), but for me I found the end of the season a bit of a letdown- I guess so much, I never came here to grumble about it. :)  

The supernatural stuff I'm fine with, however I wish the show would shit or get off the pot in terms of plot development and plot armor.  After two seasons, we're kind of back where we started, in a fashion.  We even got a nice reset button on most of the core cast, such that Meyerism itself didn't really... change.  Sure the Deniers were let back in, and there's a challenge to the leadership, but I feel that should have been wrapped up by season's end, not left dangling.  After two seasons, I wanted more; I wanted a comeuppance for Sarah and Cal and others, but with how the second season ended I'm not sure why I'm watching.  Is this a show exploring cult life?  A show about a burgeoning new religion with actual miracles and spiritual occurrences?  A morality tale about separation of church and state?  A character study in how people behave when religion demands things real life cannot give up (such as family)?  I still don't actually know, which makes me question the time commitment if I'm not confident that the show creators have a real end game or purpose in mind.

[Wicked]

Season 3 starts Wednesday.

[Philip]

I can see this board isn't very active at all but I've to say this is a show I fairly liked its first two seasons. Now, the third season so far? The not-so subtle political and feminist comments they make are kind of ruining the show unnecessarily, the first two seasons didn't need that and did just fine without it so there's really no reason to implement it now.

 

It's kind of ironic how "Welcome Everyone" and then when they take in someone who's apparently a Nazi and he wanted to change his ways they were completely hostile against him. That in itself isn't a very welcoming manner or progressive and then when the guy went to politely ask if they could be a bit more quite they all ganged up on him.

 

But I digress, I'll keep watching the show and if by episode 5-6 it's still the same garbage I'll just quit watching it. The whole point I was interested in this show was because of the cult aspect as there isn't any other show doing it, well, that I can remember at least.

[hincandenza]

Yeah, i'm on the fence as well; it's still watchable, but the coming disasters were predictable from the first moments.  The exact method is up in the air, which is fine- not every show has to be a mystery wrapped in an enigma- but there's something... missing.  Maybe it's because the dialogue is increasingly heavy-handed and melodramatic, or that every episode is so tense with staring contests and force confrontations, and there's just not enough to ground us.  What the first season did well was immerse us in the lives of the people, the community, the recognizable hodge-podge of religion and new agey spiritualism that we could see the attraction even as a cult religion.  The growing tension was earned as fractures gradually but realistically appeared.  The last season+ has felt forced, and honestly I'm not loving Aaron Paul's acting choices as this sort of reluctant messiah.  The reluctant, always-one-foot-outside religious believer/dutifully husband and family man worked well- I think for me, he was a good focal point for the audience to sympathize with him as both wanting to maintain his family but also losing the faith he had.  B he's still playing that kind of vocal fry passivity that doesn't work given his plot journey from heretic to visionary to living incarnation of The Light; Cal is so dynamic and good at speaking, it's hard to believe people Eddie would have attracted that kind of growth just from a single youtube video.

It's also weird that they have this huge building now, and are presumably flush with cash, yet whenever they address the faithful it's less than a hundred people; I get budget, but at least do a little work to suggest why we never see many actual Meyerists.

One character I'm not sure about yet (I'm 4 episodes in) is the religious studies guy.  He seems sinister somehow, like he has an agenda (why not, literally everyone else does as this is apparently the season where everyone is out to tear down Meyerism in some nefarious and subterranean plot), but other than thinking Sarah is ripe to be "cult deprogrammed" I'm not sure what it would be.

By the way, it's telling that when I went to the show's wiki to look up that actors name, no one has yet bothered to update the episode descriptions past the first episode of season 3...

Edited January 25, 2018 by hincandenza

[Maximona]

I think what's wrong with Season 3 is that the series actually ended in the last episode of Season 2!  Meaning all the loose ends had been tied; the stories had been told.

I suspect that's because the producers didn't expect the show to be renewed.  When it was renewed, they were surprised.  And now they have to make up a whole new set of stories.

The new stories are not as good as the first set of stories simply because Aaron Paul's character Eddie is far more effective as a skeptic than he is as a Messiah.  Also the writers are telegraphing like mad -- something baaaaaaad happens to him -- so, of course, we know that something baaaaaaad will NOT happen to him.  And where does that leave us?  

The Vera character is boring; Sarah and Mister I'm-Married-to-Homeland-Carrie-In-REAL-Life are almost as uninteresting. Hawk is just unbearable.   I kinda like Vera's mother, the malevolent veterinarian, but, you know -- it's vaguely Rudyard Kiplingish to have the Asian female and her mysterious magickings as the Big Bad.  

I am pleased to see that Sarah is dating the DA from Law & Order SUV a/k/a The Tribulations of Noah's Mother.  I mean, sure, he's pretending to be a professor but we know how he really makes his bucks!  Maybe he's in deep undercover?

[Philip]

10 hours ago, hincandenza said:

Yeah, i'm on the fence as well; it's still watchable, but the coming disasters were predictable from the first moments.  The exact method is up in the air, which is fine- not every show has to be a mystery wrapped in an enigma- but there's something... missing.  Maybe it's because the dialogue is increasingly heavy-handed and melodramatic, or that every episode is so tense with staring contests and force confrontations, and there's just not enough to ground us.  What the first season did well was immerse us in the lives of the people, the community, the recognizable hodge-podge of religion and new agey spiritualism that we could see the attraction even as a cult religion.  The growing tension was earned as fractures gradually but realistically appeared.  The last season+ has felt forced, and honestly I'm not loving Aaron Paul's acting choices as this sort of reluctant messiah.  The reluctant, always-one-foot-outside religious believer/dutifully husband and family man worked well- I think for me, he was a good focal point for the audience to sympathize with him as both wanting to maintain his family but also losing the faith he had.  B he's still playing that kind of vocal fry passivity that doesn't work given his plot journey from heretic to visionary to living incarnation of The Light; Cal is so dynamic and good at speaking, it's hard to believe people Eddie would have attracted that kind of growth just from a single youtube video.

It's also weird that they have this huge building now, and are presumably flush with cash, yet whenever they address the faithful it's less than a hundred people; I get budget, but at least do a little work to suggest why we never see many actual Meyerists.

One character I'm not sure about yet (I'm 4 episodes in) is the religious studies guy.  He seems sinister somehow, like he has an agenda (why not, literally everyone else does as this is apparently the season where everyone is out to tear down Meyerism in some nefarious and subterranean plot), but other than thinking Sarah is ripe to be "cult deprogrammed" I'm not sure what it would be.

By the way, it's telling that when I went to the show's wiki to look up that actors name, no one has yet bothered to update the episode descriptions past the first episode of season 3...

The religious studies guy you're talking about is Richard, right? He never struck me as someone violent but rather someone very dedicated and that he didn't work everything to go to the crapper.

 

Here's hoping they drop the political and feminist agenda because that just doesn't suit well the show, it just feels like petty and forced comments without any necessity at all. Like, some guys can't completely close their legs due to what they have between them so laughing about it seems kind of ridiculous. And the whole 'no walls' defeated itself with banning that guy.

4 minutes ago, Maximona said:

I think what's wrong with Season 3 is that the series actually ended in the last episode of Season 2!  Meaning all the loose ends had been tied; the stories had been told.

I suspect that's because the producers didn't expect the show to be renewed.  When it was renewed, they were surprised.  And now they have to make up a whole new set of stories.

The new stories are not as good as the first set of stories simply because Aaron Paul's character Eddie is far more effective as a skeptic than he is as a Messiah.  Also the writers are telegraphing like mad -- something baaaaaaad happens to him -- so, of course, we know that something baaaaaaad will NOT happen to him.  And where does that leave us?  

The Vera character is boring; Sarah and Mister I'm-Married-to-Homeland-Carrie-In-REAL-Life are almost as uninteresting. Hawk is just unbearable.   I kinda like Vera's mother, the malevolent veterinarian, but, you know -- it's vaguely Rudyard Kiplingish to have the Asian female and her mysterious magickings as the Big Bad.  

I am pleased to see that Sarah is dating the DA from Law & Order SUV a/k/a The Tribulations of Noah's Mother.  I mean, sure, he's pretending to be a professor but we know how he really makes his bucks!  Maybe he's in deep undercover?

Agreed. Richard on Season 2's finale did put an end to it all and I didn't even expect a third season to happen.

[hincandenza]

On 1/25/2018 at 11:40 AM, Philip said:

The religious studies guy you're talking about is Richard, right? He never struck me as someone violent but rather someone very dedicated and that he didn't work everything to go to the crapper.

No, I'm talking about the new character who Sarah has been meeting with, that teaches the "American Religion" class and helped her with the film projector.  He seems to be generically interested in her, romantically now, but it's not clear why as he sought her out first (at the booth that Meyerism had set up).  

 

On 1/25/2018 at 11:40 AM, Philip said:

Here's hoping they drop the political and feminist agenda because that just doesn't suit well the show, it just feels like petty and forced comments without any necessity at all. Like, some guys can't completely close their legs due to what they have between them so laughing about it seems kind of ridiculous. And the whole 'no walls' defeated itself with banning that guy.

Agreed. Richard on Season 2's finale did put an end to it all and I didn't even expect a third season to happen.

I don't see a political/feminist agenda, and I don't remember them ever talking about men sitting with their legs spread [Edit: I I did remember, when Hawk and the other kids were hanging out]?  I do agree that Eddie's whole "no wall" thing is poorly thought out.  There's a balance between walls, and things like discreet cameras and neighborhood watches.

Edited January 28, 2018 by hincandenza

[Lindacht]

The closing the legs comment had nothing to do with feminism, it was just a throwaway comment to say hey, there's more room on this seat on the bus guy, enough with the man spreading already. I thought it was kinda funny. It just meant he was taking up too much room on the seat, no need to read too much into that particular comment.

[bilgistic]

I just finished episode 3. I had a hard time getting into this, whereas I've really liked the previous seasons.

The "previously on" before the first episode showed Sarah's wreck when she was run off the road (her car flipped) and then the opening shot of the episode showed her car in the driveway next to the house. That car would've been totaled. That was just sloppy.

And in episode 3, she goes to eat sushi with the professor, after telling her daughter that only "IS's" eat sushi. (So presumably Sarah's never had it, since she grew up in Meyerism.) Yet, at the restaurant, she's using chopsticks like a pro.

I have never liked Cal, and he's even more annoying this season. I basically watch this for Aaron Paul, and I agree that his transition to being the new messiah or whatever makes him a less interesting character. I also don't care about Hawk and never, ever have.

I am somewhat/slightly/a tiny bit interested in the publicist's and her mother's long game. I don't get how the older generation in Meyerism don't know who the daughter is, since the mother was/is in the cult. We know that not all Meyerists live on the compound and come and go, and some are no longer members, like any other religion. So, in theory, someone would put it together that a former member is having meetings and her daughter is now working in the head organization.

[Petunia13]

Because of the low posting volume I have made this a Season 3: All Episodes topic. Please be advised this topic may spoil you if you are not caught up on episodes since it will be for discussing the entire season. 

[bilgistic]

I'm the only person still watching. After episode six, I'm no closer to finding out what the deal is with Vera's (I finally learned the publicist's name) mom. She wants to reboot Meyerism? Again?

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie. You don't get into a stranger's vehicle and go home with them. Do guys not learn that rule? I guess Cal was good for something when he saved Eddie's life.

Sarah wants to not be a doubter anymore just when she had started getting interesting. I actually liked her for the first time ever because she was questioning things and off having a bit of a life away from the compound...for a whole two months. So much for that, I guess.

Six episodes into the third season, and not much has happened except Eddie's now the leader, Cal and Mary's nonsense away from the others, Hank died, and... there's some more shadiness in Steve's past, which includes another secret child (Vera) and being an abuser. Let's actually move that story along instead of continuing to tell us he was a bad man. I feel like I've known that since episode one.

[Zima]

My husband and I just started watching this show, and we got to the ep where Hawk gets his hair cut. I think we may be out. Hawk's hair was the best part of this damn show, and now it's gone! 

Seriously though, this show has so much promise, but it's just meandering along. I keep waiting for it to get to the damn point, but it doesn't seem like there is one. We're still in for now, but with the loss of Hawk's lovely tresses, it's going to be that much more difficult to keep going. 

[I-Kare]

I'm now only watching for Hawk and Caleb. 

[hincandenza]

Yeah, I watch because I'm bored, and when I open Hulu mid-week, it's there so I watch it because the workday was long and I wanna smoke weed and not think.  But it's so pointless, and it just meanders... I don't care about these characters, the way they act and talk they're just sort of cut-outs for plot purposes- and yet there's no real plot.

One nitpick- as if it matters- was Sarah finding those journals of Steve and Lilith's.  She watched the same play that's been going on for decades, in which she herself acted as a child, and only now did she- or anyone- connect the words of Steve's song with a literal set of directions to a cave that looked no more than a couple of hundred yards from the compound.  Seriously, no one had discovered that exact path the whole time?!  Just more sloppy writing from a show that feels like everyone involved checked out halfway through season 2.

[bilgistic]

Where do you work that you can smoke weed? A medical marijuana dispensary? Heh.

[Free]

15 hours ago, hincandenza said:

Yeah, I watch because I'm bored, and when I open Hulu mid-week, it's there so I watch it because the workday was long and I wanna smoke weed and not think.  But it's so pointless, and it just meanders... I don't care about these characters, the way they act and talk they're just sort of cut-outs for plot purposes- and yet there's no real plot.

One nitpick- as if it matters- was Sarah finding those journals of Steve and Lilith's.  She watched the same play that's been going on for decades, in which she herself acted as a child, and only now did she- or anyone- connect the words of Steve's song with a literal set of directions to a cave that looked no more than a couple of hundred yards from the compound.  Seriously, no one had discovered that exact path the whole time?!  Just more sloppy writing from a show that feels like everyone involved checked out halfway through season 2.

It's a cheap plot convenience to do a role reversal for the characters this season: Eddie is now the leader, Sarah is now questioning her faith, and Cal is now on the outside.

It's like what you said, a meandering mess with nothing of substance actually going on.

[bilgistic]

I feel really dumb, because it didn't occur to me until I pressed play and the "previously on..." started that I got that Lilith is Vera's mother/Steve's unseen partner in the cave/cowriter of the journals. A few minutes into the episode, Vera and her mother were on the phone, and the captioning showed "Lilith: [whatever Lilith said]", but was her name used/spoken before this when she was on screen before this? Like in her meetings in her house?

I don't get Felicia being made European ambassador (or whatever). Like she said, she has a family in the U.S. Why can't she refuse?

Does Cal remember Vera as a child? I wish they hadn't done this European branch nonsense when there are so many unanswered questions with the root story.

Mary's mustache twirling is just over the top at this point. I guess she's perfect for Cal.

[Trent]

4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I feel really dumb, because it didn't occur to me until I pressed play and the "previously on..." started that I got that Lilith is Vera's mother/Steve's unseen partner in the cave/cowriter of the journals. A few minutes into the episode, Vera and her mother were on the phone, and the captioning showed "Lilith: [whatever Lilith said]", but was her name used/spoken before this when she was on screen before this? Like in her meetings in her house?

I don't get Felicia being made European ambassador (or whatever). Like she said, she has a family in the U.S. Why can't she refuse?

Does Cal remember Vera as a child? I wish they hadn't done this European branch nonsense when there are so many unanswered questions with the root story.

Mary's mustache twirling is just over the top at this point. I guess she's perfect for Cal.

Yes Lilliths name has been used repeatedly since Episode 1. We discover she's Vera's mom in ep 1 and Steve's Ex in Ep 4. We discover he was Vera's dad in ep 4. 

Felicia is made leader due to Vera's manipulation because Lillith asked her to make it so. Lillith wants revenge on Felicia and thinks the leaders of the " 4 corners " (  I'm assuming Peru, San Diego, New York and France) will all be killed by cleansing fire. 

Cal might remember her, or she might look like Steve, he may have seen the eye seared into her back. Either way it would be pretty stupid if they answered that question as soon ad they raised it because there would be no story.

[hincandenza]

20 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Where do you work that you can smoke weed? A medical marijuana dispensary? Heh.

Ha ha, no, I work at $GIANT_TECHNOLOGY_COMPANY in Seattle (I guess that doesn't completely narrow it down) but after I get home, it's nice sometimes to just plop on the couch with my vape pen and some sativa extract, puffing away while TV plays that I don't have to (or care to) think about much.

[bilgistic]

I read your post as you smoke at work. Now I see that's not what you wrote. I need to spend less time online because I'm losing my faculties.

[CofCinci]

What’s up with Mary’s all-white wardrobe this season?

[bilgistic]

This week's episode was so boring. One of the Meyerists said she gave up cigarettes and mustard for Meyerist Lent. What did mustard do wrong?

It hurt me to watch the car being bashed up. They could've sold it. Just a few episodes ago, Cal and Mary were living in a motel. This show...

If they don't wrap this up at the end of this season, I'm out.

[Free]

17 hours ago, bilgistic said:

This week's episode was so boring. One of the Meyerists said she gave up cigarettes and mustard for Meyerist Lent. What did mustard do wrong?

It hurt me to watch the car being bashed up. They could've sold it. Just a few episodes ago, Cal and Mary were living in a motel. This show...

If they don't wrap this up at the end of this season, I'm out.

It doesn't seem to be heading anywhere, it's just aimless subplots.

[Dminches]

I am finding this season fascinating.  First, Hugh Dancy is amazing.  His "Cal" deserves an award.  Secondly, having the reversal with Eddie leading the charge and Sarah doing the questioning has made for a good story line.  I also think that introducing Vera and her Mom. Steve's former lover and daughter, added to the plot line.  Having prior members come back to haunt an organization to quite common.

In the last episode it was interesting to see Sarah come to the realization that there is no afterlife.  Not only is that contrary to "the garden" but it is also contrary to what most people believe.

[bilgistic]

I was right about Vera and Cal knowing each other as kids, right? He was remembering them playing in the field...? His memory was triggered when he conducted the ODE test on her...?

If this season has 13 episodes like the last one, there's a lot to wrap up in the remaining four. I hope the pace picks up.

[Dminches]

18 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I was right about Vera and Cal knowing each other as kids, right? He was remembering them playing in the field...? His memory was triggered when he conducted the ODE test on her...?

If this season has 13 episodes like the last one, there's a lot to wrap up in the remaining four. I hope the pace picks up.

I don't get why both of them didn't remember each other after Cal discussed being abused by Steve.  Does Vera now know that she knows Cal from when they were kids?

[bilgistic]

Yeah, I don't get it. All I can guess is that Vera also has repressed memories due to her mother's physical (and emotional?) abuse.

[AnonymousBinger]

It feels like they're dragging out Sarah's struggle a bit. It's one thing to realize your faith is a lie then deal with the repercussions, but quite another to continually waffle between believing and not believing. 

Mary drives me crazy as a character. She Seems to have one expression - hurt/confusion. When she occasionally does go all serious/devious it's tough for me to believe. 

[Dminches]

10 hours ago, AnonymousBinger said:

It feels like they're dragging out Sarah's struggle a bit. It's one thing to realize your faith is a lie then deal with the repercussions, but quite another to continually waffle between believing and not believing. 

Mary drives me crazy as a character. She Seems to have one expression - hurt/confusion. When she occasionally does go all serious/devious it's tough for me to believe. 

Sarah wants to believe but all the new information she has seen has made her question her lifelong beliefs.  After realizing that there is no garden I wonder what she will do.

I agree about Mary.  She is rarely happy and seems to be pushing Cal too hard to go off on his own.  I guess she isn't afraid that he will dump her.  She did do a good job with their new client.

I often feel like taking Russell's guitar and hitting him over the head with it.