Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[Kromm]

I'd like to give Esther Jenner credit.  Nobody can force her at gunpoint to do a reality show. She's had 88 years of experience on this earth and is clearly a healthy strong woman capable of making her own decisions.  In my eyes, to assume otherwise, is age discrimination.

I think there's a difference between assuming something and discussing the possibility.  Some of the talk may have crossed the line between those two things, but not all of it. Venturing the idea that a person who's almost 90 might not properly be in the reality TV groove, for example, is hardly grossly unfair. They might be, but we probably all know people in that age range who aren't. 

 

My feeling is that what's happened with Esther is somewhere in the middle. Not some grand life-endangering shock to her system, but IMO definitely some gamesmanship to get her on camera to capture some juicy reactions.  Which at least with her ARE more likely to be real. So there's a positive side to the situation even so, even if in a perfect world that didn't include Kardashians Esther and her reactions might be held more sacred, private and certainly less exploited. I'm not too worried about Esther personally.  If we need things to hold against Caitlyn Jenner and this whole production, there are plenty of other more legit targets to launch at.  Every time we see another obviously orchestrated moment on the show they try to pass off as candid (which Ester's probably actually was, for the most part) we've got those better targets for scorn.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Kromm

[millennium]

I'd like to give Esther Jenner credit.  Nobody can force her at gunpoint to do a reality show. She's had 88 years of experience on this earth and is clearly a healthy strong woman capable of making her own decisions.  In my eyes, to assume otherwise, is age discrimination. 

 

I'm wondering whether she volunteered to be on the show or was cajoled into doing it is a far cry from "forced at gunpoint."

Edited July 31, 2015 by millennium

[iwasish]

I'm wondering whether she volunteered to be on the show or was cajoled into doing it is a far cry from "forced at gunpoint."

At 88 and after a lifetime of a distant relationship with Caitlyn, she is called and asked to come visit, along with her other two children.. I wonder how many other invitations or visits she's received from Caitlyn over the years (not many, from what we've seen on the show). She remarked that in the past, Caitlyn wasn't comfortable around her, she didn't really know why. Now she gets this call, the gender issue is discussed, she's invited to come visit.  Is it a crass attempt to manipulate her for ratings? I don't know, but I think she viewed it solely as possibly one of, if not the last, chance she'd have to spend time with all her kids together.

Personally, I think its a cruel thing to do, if in fact it was the very first time her mother saw her as Caitlyn. But, it isn't the first selfish behavior we've seen from Caitlyn and probably not the last.

I did get the sense that Caitlyn may have thought there would be more resistance from her, more drama. The scene with Pam and Caitlyn boxing up the old clothing and Caitlyn asking Pam about what has mom said to you...  though Pam said that there hadn't been any discussion, I thought she might have just been discreet. I'm sure there was plenty said in the car to the airport.  

[millennium]

At 88 and after a lifetime of a distant relationship with Caitlyn, she is called and asked to come visit, along with her other two children.. I wonder how many other invitations or visits she's received from Caitlyn over the years (not many, from what we've seen on the show). She remarked that in the past, Caitlyn wasn't comfortable around her, she didn't really know why. Now she gets this call, the gender issue is discussed, she's invited to come visit.  Is it a crass attempt to manipulate her for ratings? I don't know, but I think she viewed it solely as possibly one of, if not the last, chance she'd have to spend time with all her kids together.

Personally, I think its a cruel thing to do, if in fact it was the very first time her mother saw her as Caitlyn. But, it isn't the first selfish behavior we've seen from Caitlyn and probably not the last.

I did get the sense that Caitlyn may have thought there would be more resistance from her, more drama. The scene with Pam and Caitlyn boxing up the old clothing and Caitlyn asking Pam about what has mom said to you...  though Pam said that there hadn't been any discussion, I thought she might have just been discreet. I'm sure there was plenty said in the car to the airport.  

 

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on this.    I'm glad I didn't see it.    I feel bad for everyone involved, including Caitlyn Jenner.

Edited July 31, 2015 by millennium

[jnymph]

Esther isn't your average 88 yr old. She's had exposure to reality TV.   Not only did she appear on KUWTK, but I'm sure she's watched the show and is familiar with how it all works since Caitlyn was on that show for how many years??  Also, I'm sure she had her fair share of paparazzi after Caitlyn won the gold medal. She's familiar with the fame game.  So in other words, I'm saying I believe she knew exactly what she was getting herself into & chose to do the show. 

 

Team Esther !

[HumblePi]

No matter what Caitlyn Jenner does to try to portray herself as a person who lived her entire life in the wrong gender and wanted to be a woman all her life, she is never going to be seen in the same way to transgender communities. To the majority of the *cisgender population, Caitlyn is viewed as someone who was born male, didn't feel male, wanted to be female his entire life and happily at the ripe age of 65 was able to 'come out' and realize his life-long dream, and 'yay' and 'yippee' for him. *Cisgenders applaud her for courage, reward her for her visibility, and stop just shy of petitioning Rome for her Sainthood.

 

Bruce Jenner had led a life unlike any other transgender people in the entire world. Caitlyn portrays herself as a person who longed to be female, who felt at odds with herself as a man and who was very unhappy about her gender assignment since she was a small child. She drew the sympathy of millions with her well-planned Diane Sawyer interview. I mean, how could anyone want to withhold 'true happiness' from such a deeply unhappy man? Our instincts immediately want to fix it, we want his happiness, so we accept all he does and says regarding his need and desire to transition.

 

We forget that Bruce Jenner was a decathlon Olympic gold medal winner, which brought him an entire lifetime of fame, fortune, opportunities and attention. He lived lavishly, he enjoyed being married three times and having 10 children, six of which are biological children. Where in that picture does the immense unhappiness part come in? Where in that whole lifetime of 65 years was there any inclination for Bruce to be true to himself?

 

Caitlyn Jenner lives in another biosphere as every-day transgenders, and they can't relate to it. She refuses to believe that transgenders have no alternative but to accept welfare, food stamps and subsidized housing. He can't understand why they can't get off welfare, roll up their sleeves, get a job and be a responsible member of the community. She doesn't get it. She will never approach the problems of transgender in a way that makes any impact to what they really need. They need more than watching 'I Am Cait' every Sunday night to see her display of designer dresses, Malibu home, and countless pairs of expensive shoes. They need someone who will understand THEIR needs, fight for them in Congress and the House of Representatives to get bills passed that will assist them with medical care, and provide them safety from hate crimes. There's a long laundry list of things transgenders need besides a celebrity like Caitlyn Jenner demonstrating her makeup routine and extensive wardrobe in an 8 part 'docu-drama'.

 

*Cisgender: "Denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity conforms with the gender that corresponds to their biological sex; not transgender."

**edited numerous times for mismatching of pronouns to either past or current gender

Edited August 4, 2015 by HumblePi

[HumblePi]

At 88 and after a lifetime of a distant relationship with Caitlyn, she is called and asked to come visit, along with her other two children.. I wonder how many other invitations or visits she's received from Caitlyn over the years (not many, from what we've seen on the show). She remarked that in the past, Caitlyn wasn't comfortable around her, she didn't really know why. Now she gets this call, the gender issue is discussed, she's invited to come visit.  Is it a crass attempt to manipulate her for ratings? I don't know, but I think she viewed it solely as possibly one of, if not the last, chance she'd have to spend time with all her kids together.

Personally, I think its a cruel thing to do, if in fact it was the very first time her mother saw her as Caitlyn. But, it isn't the first selfish behavior we've seen from Caitlyn and probably not the last.

I did get the sense that Caitlyn may have thought there would be more resistance from her, more drama. The scene with Pam and Caitlyn boxing up the old clothing and Caitlyn asking Pam about what has mom said to you...  though Pam said that there hadn't been any discussion, I thought she might have just been discreet. I'm sure there was plenty said in the car to the airport.  

It was clear to see from the look in the faces of both his sister and mother that meeting Caitlyn for the first time was a very painful, difficult thing to get through. The image of Caitlyn's mother, with tears filling her eyes, stammering "this...has been very... difficult", said it all for me. Both the Jenner and Kardashians are extremely visible pop culture icons. None of them would dare to be shown as someone disappointed, angry, non-supportive or not there to fortify Caitlyn. These are public people, in the spotlight where they want to be. The last thing they want for their image is to be viewed negatively by their public.

Edited August 4, 2015 by HumblePi

[Coffeecup]

Just curious: Has Caitlyn legally changed her name from Bruce Jenner to Caitlyn Jenner yet?  Seems that if she had, the tabloids would have picked up the news. I think court documents on name changes are available to the public, although I could be mistaken about that.

 

http://www.courts.ca.gov/1054.htm#acc2235

This page says that in California you can just start using a new name and it will be legally your name, but it says you still need a court order to change it on government-issued ID documents. Yeah, I would think that Homeland Security requires you to prove that the name you use is your legal name. They are putting all of us (in every state) through that now to renew our driver's licenses. We have to provide birth certificates and other documents, even if we've had a driver's license for 50 years under the same name.

 

From the FAQ page linked above:

"Q: Can I just change my name by using my new name (by the 'usage method'), without going to court?

"A: In California, you have the common law right to change your name by the 'usage method.' This means that you simply pick a new name and start using it consistently in all parts of your life. There are exceptions to changing your name by the 'usage method' -- it cannot be used by people who are in state prison, on probation, on parole, or been a convicted sex offender. And it cannot be used to change a minor's name.

 

"BUT, government regulations created to fight against identity theft, fraud and terrorism are making it almost impossible to have a new name without official documentation. So, practically speaking, government agencies like the DMV or Social Security Administration and most institutions (like banks) require a court order to change your name. And you will also need a court order to get a new birth certificate or a passport in your new name.

 

"For this reason, it is much more common to file for a court order changing your name. With that court order, called a Decree, you will be able to change your government-issued identifications and prove to any institution that your new name is your legal name."

 

This is what it says about changing your legal name and your gender:

 

"Q: What should I do if I want to change my name AND my gender at the same time?

"A: If you want to legally change your name AND your gender, there is a separate court process and forms for doing that. Read the information and instructions to change your name and gender. If you just want to change your name for now and intend to change your gender later, continue with the instructions in the section for changing your name. Later on, if you want to change your gender, red the information and instructions to change your gender only."

 

"Q: What should I do if I want to change my gender only?

"A: If you want to change your gender, read the information and instructions to change your gender only.

 

http://www.courts.ca.gov/25797.htm

How-to Guide to Changing Your Name AND Gender

"Important! You do not need a court ordered gender change to change your California driver's license, social security card, or U.S. passport. You also no longer need a court order to have a new birth certificate issued reflecting a change of gender (for California birth records). You may want to get a court ordered gender change to amend your birth certificate if you were born outside of California. Find out more at ID Please - A guide to Changing California and Federal Identity Documents to Match Your Gender Identity or get help from the resources listed under "Related Information" on the Gender Change home page. You DO need a court order for a change of name. If you need to change your name AND gender, you can follow the instructions below, or you can instead change your gender with the State Registrar (without a court order) and separately get a court order for a name change only. To do that, visit our name change section. Generally, to get a court order changing your name AND gender, follow these steps:..."  

 

There is a long list of steps to follow.  One is: "Have your doctor fill out an affidavit telling the court that you have undergone clinically appropriate treatment for change of gender."

 

This is all very interesting.  I didn't know California had a common law right that allowed people to just pick a new name and start using it.  I assume Caitlyn's lawyer has informed her about the need for a court order to change the government-issued IDs.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Coffeecup

[ByTor]

I love their FAQ answer that pretty much says "just read it."  No kidding!

[JenMcSnark]

There are definitely problems to using the common usage method. I work for the California Controller in unclaimed property.  I've had two people try to claim money that probably did belong to them, but they don't have documentation for their name change.  And by regulations, we can't just take past documents with the name to verify that it used to be your name.  I think it's weird to not have it changed legally anyway.  

[Artsda]

That's nice seeing them hug. Love everyone coming together for Kylie.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/caitlyn-jenner-and-kris-jenner-reunited-publicly-for-the-first-time-plus-the-details-on-kylie-s-18th-birthday-66428

[iwasish]

That's nice seeing them hug. Love everyone coming together for Kylie.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/caitlyn-jenner-and-kris-jenner-reunited-publicly-for-the-first-time-plus-the-details-on-kylie-s-18th-birthday-66428

Nice to see at least Kendall and Kourtney haven't got on the lip plumper wagon.... yet. Caitlyn has had plenty of work done on hers and also has pretty good sized implants, how long till she has her ass done? 

[Artsda]

Kim makes some valid points on this new I am Cait clip about the VF interview.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/14/i-am-cait-caitlyn-jenner-kris-vanity-fair

[iwasish]

Kim makes some valid points on this new I am Cait clip about the VF interview.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/14/i-am-cait-caitlyn-jenner-kris-vanity-fair

Her points may be valid, but it's Kris's issue with Caitlyn not hers. She has no business getting involved in it. Kris has never been shy about making public statements, IMO she's just pissed that Caitlyn spilled the beans that she knew of his history and chose to ignore it. But thats moot anyway because I'm sure in an upcoming episode Kris and Caitlyn have their sit down  and they make up all teary eyed on camera.... just like the script read.

[Kromm]

Her points may be valid, but it's Kris's issue with Caitlyn not hers. She has no business getting involved in it. Kris has never been shy about making public statements, IMO she's just pissed that Caitlyn spilled the beans that she knew of his history and chose to ignore it. But thats moot anyway because I'm sure in an upcoming episode Kris and Caitlyn have their sit down  and they make up all teary eyed on camera.... just like the script read.

I have to admit that Kim's line reading there is about the best acting she's ever done. I mean good enough that I might actually be considering she might actually not have had that all fed to her.

[GaT]

Her points may be valid, but it's Kris's issue with Caitlyn not hers. She has no business getting involved in it. Kris has never been shy about making public statements,

Kim was also the one who bitched at Caitlyn because there were rumors that she was dating Kris' best friend Rhonda, which we now know wasn't true. That wasn't her business either, I think Kris uses Kim to get messages to Caitlyn.

[Maysie]

The Vanity Fair article is kind of a catch 22 for me. On one hand, props to Caitlyn for being honest in the article because it would have been easy to be less than honest for the sake of burnishing her image. However, when I read it I was struck with how incredibly selfish she came across and that's precisely because she was truthful about her thoughts/feelings about the situation and how she expected/hoped others would deal with it.

 

The family as a whole has been so good at airbrushing the truth and reality to make it palatable for the public and advertisers and propping up the brand; it's one of the things I hate about the whole lot of them. Caitlyn was frank (a welcome departure) and I have to say, it made me really dislike her because she seemed so detached and insensitive to how the people closest to her may be feeling with it. Kind of a quandary: damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I think for me, Caitlyn probably does realize the things she said were hurtful (and Kim -- or whoever -- is giving Caitlyn a lot of credit there); I don't think she cares that they were hurtful. I suppose it's the price of honesty.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Maysie

[iwasish]

I always thought that Caurkyn hooked up with Kris to continue living the lie. She threw herself into a commitment to raise Robert K's kids and added two more to the mix. I don't question her love for them or that she herself even realized the reasons she jumped into that situation. But from all reports they were a very happy active family,lots of travel and exciting stuff to do. The kids sports activities, the carpooling,and Kris maintained a very active social life with the community. Caitlyn was out there too, hitting the nightspots and premieres,doing the talk show rounds. She wasn't quite the hermit she's insinuating she was. From Kris's comments it seemed the most very few years she would become angry and mood, I doubt Kris really pressed her for the reasons, they just weathered the storm and moved on.

From Caitlyns bday remarks to Kylie, I do believe at some point she decided that her parental work was done at that time and she was free to live her true life.

She is selfish. Even her treatment of her mother I see as cruel. Did dhe ever even embrace her as she struggled to verbalized the difficulties she was having accepting the situation.?

I thought Jens comment to her about getting out of her own head and remembering and recognizing those who have been there for her in the past, not just concentrating on her trans circle of friends spoke volumes.

Candis is certainly loving her time in the spotlight and the show is using the possibility of Cairlyns first on screen kiss or overnight date complete with awkward morning after conversation as a ratings teaser.

Edited August 15, 2015 by iwasish

[Artsda]

Clip with Scott. They talk about Kris Humphries tweet.Funny now that Scott's not in this family anymore either.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/20/i-am-cait-scott-disick-caitlyn-jenner-kris-humphries
 
TMZ reports on the accident.
 
Sheriff Says Vehicular Manslaughter Law Violated
 
http://www.tmz.com/2015/08/20/caitlyn-bruce-jenner-vehicular-manslaugher-crash-case-presented-sheriff/
 

The L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. has completed its investigation into the fatal Caitlyn Jenner car crash, and we're told the Sheriff concluded Jenner violated the vehicular manslaughter law and will send the case to the D.A.

We've learned the Sheriff's Dept. concluded in its 161-page report that Jenner "set off a chain of events" that led to the death of a motorist on Pacific Coast Highway in February, and the report says Jenner violated the law by traveling at an unsafe speed.

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ, the report concludes Jenner was traveling under the speed limit but going too fast for road conditions.

The report explains traffic was either stopped or just starting to move when Jenner slammed into the Lexus in front of him. As one source put it, "He should have either been going 0 or just barely rolling."

As a result, the report concludes Jenner violated Penal Code section 192©(2) -- the misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter law.

We're told the case will be presented to the L.A. County District Attorney for review next Wednesday.
If convicted, the offense carries a sentence of up to one year in county jail.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Artsda

[Coffeecup]

New controversy today about the Caitlyn Jenner Halloween costume, a version of the white corset outfit she wore on the Vanity Fair cover.

 

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/caitlyn-jenner-halloween-costume-sparks-social-media-outrage

Caitlyn Jenner Halloween costume sparks social media outrage
08/25/15 10:08 AM—Updated 08/25/15 10:29 AM

 

http://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/caitlyn-jenner-halloween-costume-social-media-68011

Aug 25, 2015 11:35AM
    By Allison Cacich

Caitlyn Jenner Halloween Costume Sparks Internet Outrage

 

Halloween is still more than two months away, but one costume being sold online has already been dubbed the most controversial of the season.

 

A variety of retailers — including Spirit Halloween and Costume Super Center — have received backlash over their Caitlyn Jenner costume, which is based off the outfit that the 65-year-old wore on the cover of Vanity Fair earlier this summer.

 

“You probably won’t break any Twitter records when you wear this outfit like Caitlyn did,” the description on Anytime Costumes’ site reads, “but you’ll be sure to get a few laughs out of your friends and the other guests at the get together.”

Needless to say, the look, which comes with shorts, a padded top, pageant sash and wig, did not sit well with social media users who called the costume "transphobic" and "disgusting."

 

Despite the many complaints she's received, Lisa Barr, the senior director of marketing at Spirit Halloween, is defending the item.

"At Spirit Halloween, we create a wide range of costumes that are often based upon celebrities, public figures, heroes and superheroes," she said in a statement. "We feel that Caitlyn Jenner is all of the above and that she should be celebrated. The Caitlyn Jenner costume reflects just that."

 

 ***

 

There are tons of other articles reporting the backlash.

 

I think the costume is in poor taste, but I also think the costume companies are within their rights to sell it, and people who want to wear it for a Halloween party are not necessarily being transphobic or trying to hurt Caitlyn's feelings. Caitlyn is a public figure. Caricatures such as the Halloween costume come with the territory of being a public figure. Think about it: every recent U.S. president has been made fun of in Halloween costumes.

 

Other Kardashian-Jenners get ridiculed at Halloween. For example, here's a costume of Kim during her first pregnancy, wearing that hideous print dress that made her look like a sofa. If you wanted to raise a fuss about it, you could say the costume is offensive to pregnant women.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/24/halloween-costumes-ripped-from-the-headlines-2/

Halloween costumes ripped from the headlines

By Tim Donnelly

October 24, 2013

 

There are other costumes on the market that people can find offensive. Here's one that's especially awful:

http://www.tmz.com/2015/08/25/cecil-the-lion-killer-halloween-costume-with-severed-head/

Cecil the Lion Killer Costume, Severed Head Included
8/25/2015 9:29 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

 

The costume is a blood-spattered white dentist's smock, bloody latex gloves, and a stuffed-toy lion head. I cringed when I saw it. To me that is very offensive and disgusting. It mocks people who care about cruelty to animals. But I still think the company, Costumish, has a right to sell it. Just as I have the right to boycott them.

[ByTor]

But I still think the company, Costumish, has a right to sell it. Just as I have the right to boycott them.

I could not possibly agree more!

[Coffeecup]

Caitlyn has an appearance coming up on the Ellen DeGeneres show on Tuesday, Sept. 8. A few clips from the show have been released. One segment is starting to cause controversy: Caitlyn's opinion on gay marriage.

 

The clip is available on several sites. TMZ:

http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/04/caitlyn-jenner-ellen-gay-marriage-video-support-oppose/

TMZ, Sept. 4, 2015, “Caitlyn Jenner: Luke Warm on Gay Marriage [sic -- TMZ should have written "lukewarm."  It isn't about some guy named Luke Warm.]
9/4/2015 12:24 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

 

From the TMZ article:

 

Caitlyn Jenner stunned a lot of people during a recent taping of 'Ellen,' saying she was opposed to gay marriage for a long time but now she's just ok with it.

Ellen was on her game, challenging Caitlyn who said she was a traditionalist for a long time but eventually decided she had no business standing in the way of someone's happiness.

She sounded very tentative, and Ellen pressed. The best Caitlyn could muster was, "I'm ok with it."

Interesting.

 

 

Entertainment Weekly:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/09/04/caitlyn-jenner-ellen-marriage-equality

EW.com, Sept.4, 2015, "Caitlyn Jenner explains how her views on marriage equality have evolved during Ellen interview"

 

From the EW article:

 

Jenner said that she was initially not behind same-sex marriage. “I’m a traditionalist. … I kinda like tradition and it’s always been a man and a woman,” said Jenner.

 

But, she added, those views have evolved. “As time has gone on, I think a lot of people on this issue have really changed their thinking here to, ‘I don’t ever want to stand in front of anybody’s happiness.’ That’s not my job, okay? If that word — ‘marriage’ — is really, really that important to you, I can go with it,” Jenner said.

 

Host Ellen DeGeneres pressed Jenner to explain her position on the use of the word, because “obviously ‘marriage’ is an important word because marriage is marriage and equality is equality, so we want the same word everyone else has.”

 

That said, Jenner insisted that she’s “on board” and “okay” with same-sex marriage: “I don’t want to stand in front of anybody’s happiness.”

 

***

 

Neither article gave the entire transcript of the clip. Caitlyn said "I'm a Republican. Nothing wrong with that."  Ellen mumbled something polite in reply. Caitlyn also prefaced her remarks about liking tradition with "I'm an older person. I'm older than most of the people in the audience."

 

Judging by the comments on the articles, especially TMZ, people are calling Caitlyn a hypocrite. She wanted the whole world to enthusiastically accept her gender transition and praise her for her bravery, but she's not exactly enthusiastic about the right of gays to marry. I wonder why she went to the Gay Pride Festival in New York. Just to get applause and publicity?

 

All I can think of to say in Caitlyn's defense is that I understand how opinions can change with age. I'm a year older than Caitlyn, and I've certainly gotten more liberal about some issues as I've gotten older. But I object to her trying to be some big spokesperson for the LGBT community if she's not fully committed to promoting their rights. Maybe she should just go quietly live her own life the way she wants to, and pass the celebrity "Poster LGBT Transgender Person" position on to someone else.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Coffeecup

[Kromm]

Ack. Just posted about that Ellen thing in the I Am Cait forum (in Caitlyn's topic there).  Not really so much about the TMZ piece, or even Ellen's responses, but rather just about what I think this says about the whole "hero" thing (and also as has been mentioned here, the inferred leadership role from that). 

 

I guess this will hardly be the last cross-post on things Caitlyn Jenner.

 

In a nutshell, I mostly agree with Coffeecup, although I don't really relate it to an age thing (I'm old too, but frankly have felt the way I feel for pretty much my entire life--then again I KNEW gay people my entire life).  For the rest, you can go look at that other topic I guess.

[Coffeecup]

I didn’t post about the Ellen show in the I Am Cait forum because I thought it might be off topic.

Caitlyn has also taped an interview with Matt Lauer for the Today show, to be aired in two parts on Wednesday, Sept. 9 and Thursday, Sept. 10.

http://www.today.com/popculture/caitlyn-jenner-matt-lauer-hit-golf-course-candid-new-interview-t42346

This is a video clip of the interview, showing Matt and Caitlyn on the golf course, but – maddeningly! – there is no audio. The group of morning anchor people just talked over the silent video. Why did they bother to post a video if there wasn’t going to be any audio? They might as well have just posted still photos. Also I hate it when the media drags out s single interview into two parts.

News about the car accident lawsuit:

http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/04/caitlyn-jenner-lawsuit-self-incrimination-5th-amendment-prescriptions-pch-crash/

TMZ, “Caitlyn Jenner: I Won't Answer Questions About the Crash ... For Now”

9/4/2015 8:18 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

“Caitlyn Jenner will not answer questions in the civil lawsuit over her fatal PCH car crash because it would violate her right against self-incrimination.

“Caitlyn's lawyer filed legal docs claiming Jenner should not have to answer various questions connected to the crash while the D.A. ponders whether to file criminal charges.

“Fact is ... it's common for any civil defendant in Jenner's shoes to lodge such an objection.

“The stepchildren of Kim Howe, the Lexus driver killed in the crash, are asking Jenner to answer scores of questions, including whether she was taking any prescription or non-prescription meds at the time of the accident.

“As TMZ first reported, Sheriff's investigators determined Jenner was NOT under the influence of any drugs or alcohol. But the question opens the door to personal medical information that could include hormone therapy.”

[Artsda]

I wonder why she went to the Gay Pride Festival in New York. Just to get applause and publicity?

 

To film for the show.

 

Caitlyn's having an interesting week with this and the using Bruce's name still.

[Coffeecup]

To film for the show.

 

Caitlyn's having an interesting week with this and the using Bruce's name still.

Yeah, I heard about her using the name Bruce for the application at the exclusive golf club. Pfft! I don't know which golf course was used when the Today show interview with Matt was filmed, but Caitlyn wore a women's outfit, a short golf skirt and the traditional unisex golf polo shirt.

[iwasish]

Of course she did, Matt Lauer was there!!

[Maysie]

I haven't watched her show because I'm not all that interested in her transition - it's playing out publicly enough that I'm getting the idea without turning on the television. Plus, I think what she's putting out in interviews, such as the Ellen piece, is as likely to be "real" as what she's showing on tv.

 

She can think whatever she wants about gay marriage but I do take issue with her speaking for a movement that has fought long and hard for that right if she doesn't support one of the basic components of the movement. I know she said that she supports it now, but I wonder how true that is; does she feel pressured to say she feels something she doesn't really believe in?

 

I'm coming to believe that any "caring" she does for anyone in the transgender movement is all made for television - particularly if she's falling back on using her male name if it means she'll get what she wants. As long as she lapses into that habit of pulling whatever string she has access to, she'll never get what it means to go through the transition as a normal person would.

[Artsda]

"I'm OK with it" just doesn't so that advocating of the issue to me. It sounds like she has to be "OK" with it or has to say it.

Yeah, I heard about her using the name Bruce for the application at the exclusive golf club. Pfft! I don't know which golf course was used when the Today show interview with Matt was filmed, but Caitlyn wore a women's outfit, a short golf skirt and the traditional unisex golf polo shirt.

 

Had to be one that wasn't her private country club. May be a public one so they could film at it.

[Coffeecup]

Some good news!  Blossom, the young transgender woman who was turned down for admission to several nursing schools, was presented with a $20,000 check by Caitlyn and Ellen. It's shown in a clip from next Tuesday's Ellen show.

 

http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/news/693007/caitlyn-jenner-and-ellen-degeneres-fulfill-blossom-brown-s-dream-of-going-to-nursing-school-with-huge-check-watch-the-emotional-clip

E Online, Sept. 4, 2015, "Caitlyn Jenner and Ellen DeGeneres Fulfill Blossom Brown's Dream of Going to Nursing School With Huge Check: Watch the Emotional Clip!"

 

The Shutterfly corporation is the one who actually donated the $20K, not Caitlyn or Ellen. In the clip,  Ellen said "We want to help you. Shutterfly likes to help people tell their stories and they love your story, so we want to give you $20,000." The Shutterfly logo appears in the top corner of the big cardboard mockup check Ellen handed Blossom. Earlier this year, on Caitlyn's show, it had been sort of implied (never actually said, just implied) that Caitlyn herself would donate money to Blossom for her education. I had my doubts that Caitlyn would give her own money.

 

Also, I'm very happy Blossom got some financial help, but the title of the E story is VERY misleading. This gift did not "fulfill Blossom Brown's dream of going to nursing school." Blossom said she'd been turned down by six schools. Ellen asked the viewers to contact her with names of nursing schools (presumably schools willing to admit a transgender student). Ellen looked straight into the camera and said, "Anyone watching, and there's a nursing school,  please get in touch with us so we can get in touch with Blossom. We want to help Blossom get into a nursing school." Ellen even joked that "I don't own a nursing school and I can't get you into a nursing school." So Blossom has some money to live on now, but her goal of admission to a nursing school has not been fulfilled.

 

The clip showed Blossom in the "green room" before she came onstage, and Candis was with her. I don't know whether Candis will appear on the Ellen show too. So far, they haven't released any clips that show her onstage with Ellen and Cait. Candis didn't look dressed up enough for a TV appearance. She was just wearing jeans and a loose white shirt. I think she likes to wear nice dresses for public appearances.

[iwasish]

So Cait doesn't have quite the pull she thought she did, or that she thought Ellen did. Or Ellen is disappointed in Caits lack of support for gay marriage.

Maybe if Blossom has the upfront cash for nursing school and not relying on scholarship or loans it will be easier to gain admission.

[Kromm]

Did anyone really think it would be Jenner money paying for that?  Heck, even with Ellen, generally a more enlightened person than Caitlyn, I'd have been surprised, when you can just tell some sponsor they'll get a huge plug (probably worth a cool $100K) on her show.

[iwasish]

Ellen's face during the gay marriage conversation said it all.

I suspect this is Caits first and last appearance on Ellen.

No celebrities put their hand in their own pocket if they can get a sponsor to do so instead. I wonder if she discussed her plan with Ellen prior to it airing originally or did Ellen get blindsided?

[freeradical]

If celebrities gave their own money directly to people there would be a barrage of desperate people with sad, sad stories begging to be next and the celeb would look like an asshole no matter what because you can't help everyone. Hopefully Caitlyn will start a nonprofit with the input of people who know how to best help a LGBT cause (that would help her image)! She will donate one way or the other for sure, it is a tax write-off!

Edited September 6, 2015 by freeradical

[Coffeecup]

If celebrities gave their own money directly to people there would be a barrage of desperate people with sad, sad stories begging to be next and the celeb would look like an asshole no matter what because you can't help everyone. Hopefully Caitlyn will start a nonprofit with the input of people who know how to best help a LGBT cause (that would help her image)! She will donate one way or the other for sure, it is a tax write-off!

That's true. It happens to people who win big in the lottery too; not only their relatives, but also strangers approach them for money.

 

Caitlyn could start a foundation (per your suggestion, freeradical) to benefit LGBT people, maybe in a joint arrangement with other wealthy individuals who want to help, and a corporate sponsor too. Then Caitlyn could put some of her own money into it. (If she wanted to.) People who needed the money could apply for grants.

 

As for the Shutterfly donation to Blossom, we don't know who went to Shutterfly and asked them to do it. Ellen might have made the request, or Cait might have, or both of them, or some influential person behind the scenes we don't know about.

 

Let's just hope the head of some nursing school sees the show and gets in touch with Blossom.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Coffeecup

[Kromm]

If celebrities gave their own money directly to people there would be a barrage of desperate people with sad, sad stories begging to be next and the celeb would look like an asshole no matter what because you can't help everyone. Hopefully Caitlyn will start a nonprofit with the input of people who know how to best help a LGBT cause (that would help her image)! She will donate one way or the other for sure, it is a tax write-off!

There's a difference between giving out money to random strangers who approach you though, and someone who you make a point of using on national TV to enhance your own press. The gun was already loaded--metaphorically I mean--by Caitlyn's own hand.

 

And Caitlyn already has history with starting non-profits. At least with something called the "Bruce Jenner Foundation". I can't say I know what it's for, because the profile is threadbare, but it seems like it's was done around since 1983 under the general heading of "Philanthropy, Voluntarism, and Grantmaking". So it was probably either a tax dodge, or gave scholarships, or both.  But it seems to be defunct now (since that also says it's not currently registered with the IRS.

 

My point is that Caitlyn probably could easily make one if she wanted. 

[Cosmic Muffin]

There is so much need, and Caitlyn has so much money, and so much earning potential. I really hope she does something, especially to help homeless LGBT youth. But really, she could help in so many areas. Health, education, employment, SRS and other surgeries, and/or trying to get protective legislation passed, there is so much need. Starting a foundation for scholarships wouldn't be a bad place to start, staffing the foundation with qualified transmen and transwomen would be a good second step.

[Fostersmom]

Ellen's been giving away Shutterfly backed money for a while now, so that's nothing new, but I'd love to know if Ellen was really given a choice in the matter of this gift or if Cait just demanded it. Like, hey Ellen, I taped this for my show and said you would give her money, so you better pony some up. I don't see Cait and Ellen being friendly before Cait's transition and I don't see them being friendly after her appearance on Ellen's show. My guess is Cait just assumed and then demanded Ellen be a willing participant in this because Ellen's gay and no one will ever say no to Cait (least in Cait's mind). I also suspect Cait thought she could throw some money at the problem and Blossom would instantly get into any school she wanted. 

[iwasish]

We still don't know the reason Blossom can't get into nursing school. It's only her assumption that it is because she's trans. I'm sure that may be a big factor, but is it the only one?

I think Cait assumed just bringing it to the publics attention would embarrass a school into admitting her, or have a school do it for the good publicity it would garner.

She's going to learn soon enough that money is not the answer to every situation.

[Mu Shu]

IMO, expecting anything altruistic from Caitlyn is bound to disappoint.   This is a person who likely was self absorbed from a young age whose self absorption was laser focused into becoming the world's greatest athlete.   You don't get where she got without working your ass off, sacrificing, and doubling down on self focus.    Every dollar she made was earned,  but the person she is wasn't worth it.    

 

She's shallow and dull.    There's no more there than there ever was.    Hanging with Caitlyn probably means golf, dirt biking,  shopping, mani-pedis and little of anything else.    I don't think she identifies with trans gender people, or any other people for that matter.    There's just Cait. 

[Coffeecup]

Just watched Caitlyn on the Ellen DeGeneres show. If you watched the preview clips, you already saw at least 90% of the show.

There were a couple of un-previewed things Caitlyn said that bothered me. Ellen was asking Caitlyn whether she'd changed her hobby interests, such as dirt bike riding, cars, and golf. Caitlyn said, "No, why should I give up all the fun stuff?" That was fine. But then Ellen asked more questions about golf: "Do you play on the women's teams [or did she say "tees"?] or the men's teams?" and asked something about, was it fair to play on the women's teams. Caitlyn said firmly, "I play on the men's tees," and repeated "Why should I give up the fun stuff?" Um... because the men's tee is for men? I understand that the exclusive golf club where Caitlyn is a member makes pretty sharp divisions between male and female members. Caitlyn can't have her cake and eat it too.

Another sorta disturbing statement came when Ellen was discussing the public's understanding of the differences between homosexuality and transgenderism [is that a word?], in the context of your sexuality compared to your gender. Caitlyn thought there was a difference. Among other things, Caitlyn said, "There's an old saying: homosexuality is who you sleep with, but gender is who you go to bed as." Huh? That sounds a little dismissive of homosexuality. [Edited to add: I don't have a tape of that show to double-check, so I might have misquoted Caitlyn. She may have said "Sexuality is who you sleep with/go to bed with," but I think I heard "homosexuality."]

Like other media people, Ellen wanted to know whether Caitlyn and Candis were dating. (Candis was shown backstage, but she didn't appear onstage.) She kept pressuring Caitlyn to answer. Caitlyn kept repeating that they were just close friends.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Coffeecup

[Kromm]

I didn't see it, but I'm sure it was "tees".  Golfers may play together, but it's not really a team sport.  Whereas "tees" is a real term they use to describe the position they hit the ball from (and it varies usually by gender).

It might theoretically have Renee Richards up in arms, but in a way it's fairest that Caitlyn is playing from the men's tees--if that's what she said. She may have new equipment up front blocking her, and hormones that are different, but she's not only arguably got male muscle density, but also a lifetime of previous experience on the men's tees.  Then again, if she's not playing competitively, perhaps the difference doesn't really matter. I mean I suppose she'll play in some celebrity Pro-Am tournament at some point (and likely did as a man too), but those don't really count for much (short of bets they make with each other).

[farmgal4]

I didn't see it, but I'm sure it was "tees".  Golfers may play together, but it's not really a team sport.  Whereas "tees" is a real term they use to describe the position they hit the ball from (and it varies usually by gender).

It might theoretically have Renee Richards up in arms, but in a way it's fairest that Caitlyn is playing from the men's tees--if that's what she said. She may have new equipment up front blocking her, and hormones that are different, but she's not only arguably got male muscle density, but also a lifetime of previous experience on the men's tees.  Then again, if she's not playing competitively, perhaps the difference doesn't really matter. I mean I suppose she'll play in some celebrity Pro-Am tournament at some point (and likely did as a man too), but those don't really count for much (short of bets they make with each other).

It was tees.

[Coffeecup]

Thanks, I figured other people might have sharper ears than me. Tees it is.

[Coffeecup]

http://www.eonline.com/news/693851/caitlyn-jenner-not-offended-with-halloween-costumes-inspired-by-her-vanity-fair-cover-i-think-it-s-great

Caitlyn Jenner Not Offended With Halloween Costumes Inspired By Her Vanity Fair Cover: "I Think It's Great"

Preview clip from the Matt Lauer interview with Caitlyn on the Today show.

Caitlyn said she's "in on the joke," and is not offended at all by the costume. She joked with Matt that she wished she'd thought of it herself.

I'm glad to see she could laugh about it.

[Artsda]

She knows she's not going to no jail with the LA overcrowding & her status. Seems like a sympathy attempt for the crash.

 

Caitlyn Jenner talks fears of going to men’s jail over fatal car crash: ‘That is the worst case scenario’

Edited September 9, 2015 by Artsda

[Maysie]

 

“The media wants that picture, don’t they?” the reality star mused. "That is the worst-case scenario."

“I don’t know, we’ll see, " she added. "The men’s county jail. That’s the scary part. It is an enormous problem that they would put trans women in a men’s county jail.”

 

Yes, the media does want that picture because you and your family have been spoon-feeding images to the media for years. The monster you helped create, and continue to perpetuate, sometimes turns against you.

 

And I don't know, but there seems to be a bit of gender identification fluidity going on with Caitlyn when it suits her needs. The male golf tees work for her when she wants them too but the county jail is an entirely different story. Just about everything about her smacks of hypocrisy.

[nexxie]

Kim was also the one who bitched at Caitlyn because there were rumors that she was dating Kris' best friend Rhonda, which we now know wasn't true. That wasn't her business either, I think Kris uses Kim to get messages to Caitlyn.

Kim acts like the "golden child" of a classic narcissist - a mirror and extension, and often also a narcissist. Poor North.

[Coffeecup]

Here are links to the Matt Lauer interview, for people who missed it.

http://www.today.com/video

Video of part 1 of Today show Matt Lauer interview with CJ, Sept. 9, 2015. This link goes to a list of all the Today videos. The CJ interview was the first on the list. A few days from now, some other videos will come up first.

http://www.celebuzz.com/2015-09-09/watch-caitlyn-jenner-tells-matt-lauer-ive-lived-the-ultimate-male/

Celebuzz, Sept. 9, 2015, “WATCH: Caitlyn Jenner Tells Matt Lauer, ‘I’ve Lived the Ultimate Male’ “

This article has the Part 1 video.

http://perezhilton.com/2015-09-09-caitlyn-jenner-matt-lauer-today-interview-transition-accident#.VfCP8YdRFLM

Perez Hilton has the full video too.

"Caitlyn Jenner Opens Up About Her Transition AND Her Car Accident On Today — Watch HERE!"

(Note: I know this interview is being discussed on the I Am Cait forum, but since I was told I'd posted something "off topic" over there, I'm discussing it on this thread. The Lauer interview, and the Ellen interview, were not related to the IAC show, in my opinion.)

I'm far from being a Caitlyn fan, but I have to admit I liked her much better in the Matt Lauer interview than on the IAC show. IAC is so fake and scripted that Caitlyn came off looking like a clueless, self-absorbed diva. She may be all that, but she seemed much more relaxed and open in the Lauer interview. Maybe that is because NBC is a professional news organization, compared to E Network which is in the business of producing scripted reality shows that always go for the sensational, confrontational and lurid angles of a story. (I do think the Lauer questions were pre-screened by Caitlyn's people, because she never seemed to be caught off guard by Lauer.)

I believe what made Caitlyn seem so approachable in this interview was that she wasn't accompanied by her friends from the transgender community, who tend to fuss at her for using the wrong words. Caitlyn told Matt that the organization (she named it) and the [transgender] community were very strict about which pronouns people may use, but “I am much more tolerant.” I was happy to hear that. It made me feel that I could sit down and have a conversation with Caitlyn myself and not have to stress out over which words I used, and that I might even enjoy talking with her. Caitlyn said she realized her situation was difficult for people to understand.

When Matt asked about her privileged position [rich person], Caitlyn acknowledged it and said "I've worked hard to earn money and I've saved a few bucks." This is true, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. There is a lot of consternation that Caitlyn is openly Republican, a party which has always been against anything but traditional male-female relationships. I don't know how that will play out for Caitlyn, but I am seeing her as someone who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I don't think those two attitudes are mutually exclusive, although the combination doesn't fit with either the Republican or Democratic official party platforms.

I was surprised Caitlyn's lawyer let her say as much as she did about the car accident.

Anyway, I liked the interview, and plan to watch Part 2 tomorrow.

[Kromm]

Yes, the media does want that picture because you and your family have been spoon-feeding images to the media for years. The monster you helped create, and continue to perpetuate, sometimes turns against you.

 

And I don't know, but there seems to be a bit of gender identification fluidity going on with Caitlyn when it suits her needs. The male golf tees work for her when she wants them too but the county jail is an entirely different story. Just about everything about her smacks of hypocrisy.

Lets be clear though... the male golf tees are HARDER.  The only way they might favor Caitlyn is that she's used to the distances and suddenly adjusting to lesser ones could in theory throw off a game for a while.

 

As people know, I'm no fan of her as a person, but I gotta call that like I see it. If she's insisting on still using the harder tees, it's actually surprisingly fair, since other than having boobs in the way now (also a slight change in her center of gravity), and perhaps side effects from hormones (which don't totally change your body--just some elements of it), she's still got the same musculature. Yes, she's older, but that's why many courses have "Senior tees" too (a more equitable way to deal with that situation).