Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[GaT]

He may not like the cameras, but I think it's great of him to be on the show. He doesn't like KUWTK and refuses to appear, however he agrees to be on Caitlyn's show which has more deeper meaning and purpose to it. 

 

Says a lot about him that he's willing to support Caitlyn and be on 'I am Cait' while unwilling to be on KUWTK.

You are giving Kanye way too much credit, he doesn't appear on KUWTK because "he doesn't think the production is up to his "meticulous" standards." it has nothing to do with anything important. At least in anybody's mind who isn't Kanye.

[Artsda]

You are giving Kanye way too much credit, he doesn't appear on KUWTK because "he doesn't think the production is up to his "meticulous" standards." it has nothing to do with anything important. At least in anybody's mind who isn't Kanye.

The content is for sure what he thinks is beneath him. 'I am Cait' is the same network, the same camera/production/behind the scenes people/the same producers. It's the exact same people working on both shows. I will give him credit for obviously choosing to go on a show that is trying to send a positive message.

 

'I Am Cait' review: Caitlyn Jenner reality show light years away from 'Kardashians'

[Coffeecup]

I never heard any of [bruce]'s motivational speaking, but maybe that's where Caitlyn's rah-rah wording comes from.

Bruce has done a lot of motivational speaking. Here she is in a YouTube video from 2011.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ou_aHt6pH4

This website says Bruce did motivational speeches for Merck, Coca Cola, VISA, Anheuser Busch, MCI, Toyota, Kawasaki, Maytag, Mack Trucks, Chrysler and IBM Corporation, among others.

http://www.mcpspeakers.com/Speaker/28/Bruce-Jenner.html

E Online and other media said Caitlyn will return to motivational speaking.

http://www.eonline.com/news/652047/bruce-jenner-to-return-to-motivational-speaking-following-his-tv-interview-about-transitioning

TMZ says Caitlyn's speaking fee will be five times the size of Bruce's fee.

http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/04/caitlyn-jenner-endorsements-more-money-than-bruce/

"Sources who worked for years on booking speaking gigs for Bruce tell TMZ, Caitlyn is worth 5 times what Bruce commanded. Our sources say Bruce used to get $25,000 a pop for motivational speaking ... and they say Caitlyn can pull well over $100k.

"There's a big reason Caitlyn is a hotter commodity ... social media. Bruce hated social media and wouldn't play ball. A lot of the companies that hire motivational speakers are big into social, and Caitlyn is fully on board and breaking records.

"Another obvious reason for the bump ... Caitlyn has quite the story to tell."

Edited July 23, 2015 by OnceSane
ignoring mod note

[HumblePi]

Yes. Rich and famous Caitlyn won't have to face age discrimination like other 60+ senior citizen women looking for a job. She won't face sex discrimination in a job search; she'll never have to prove she can do a job as well as a man, and she will never have to do the same job as a man for less pay. In fact, I heard that she'll make even higher fees on the motivational speaker circuit as Caitlyn than she made as Bruce. With all the publicity and the reality show, she will never have to endure the awful feeling of being "invisible," which is experienced by many older women. Well, more power to her in getting the money, but she'll never be able to comprehend what it's like to be an ordinary elderly woman.

And she will never.......thanks to the millions she has and the millions of dollars yet to come,.... feel the necessity to choose at the end of each month whether to spend $235 for her atrial fibrillation medication or diabetic supplies because she's hit her Medicare doughnut hole and has to decide what's more important between gasoline for her 2005 Vibe or medication to stop her heart from fluttering. There's no way that anyone can relate to Caitlyn even those who have transgendered already or those only hoping they could. Financially, nobody has the financial advantages that Caitlyn and/or Bruce Jenner have, and the process is well beyond the grasp of the majority of people wishing to go forward transitioning.

 

Caitlyn Jenner’s Vanity Fair cover drew some criticism from transgender advocates who say the representation is detached from the lived realities of most trans people. Chase Strangio, a staff attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union who specializes in trans issues, said that the key mark of success would be whether Jenner’s huge new platform could be used to highlight the “horrible discrimination and violence” trans people face. “So many people are dying because they cannot access the healthcare that Jenner as a wealthy white woman was able to get.”

 

The jury is still out as to whether Caitlyn Jenner will use her celebrity status to help the transgender community in the ways they need the help or if she will only be focused on the fame, attention and money that she'll be able to stuff in her Saint Laurent designer purse.

[GaT]

And she will never.......thanks to the millions she has and the millions of dollars yet to come,.... feel the necessity to choose at the end of each month whether to spend $235 for her atrial fibrillation medication or diabetic supplies because she's hit her Medicare doughnut hole and has to decide what's more important between gasoline for her 2005 Vibe or medication to stop her heart from fluttering. There's no way that anyone can relate to Caitlyn even those who have transgendered already or those only hoping they could. Financially, nobody has the financial advantages that Caitlyn and/or Bruce Jenner have, and the process is well beyond the grasp of the majority of people wishing to go forward transitioning.

 

Caitlyn Jenner’s Vanity Fair cover drew some criticism from transgender advocates who say the representation is detached from the lived realities of most trans people. Chase Strangio, a staff attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union who specializes in trans issues, said that the key mark of success would be whether Jenner’s huge new platform could be used to highlight the “horrible discrimination and violence” trans people face. “So many people are dying because they cannot access the healthcare that Jenner as a wealthy white woman was able to get.”

 

The jury is still out as to whether Caitlyn Jenner will use her celebrity status to help the transgender community in the ways they need the help or if she will only be focused on the fame, attention and money that she'll be able to stuff in her Saint Laurent designer purse.

Again, I'm not understanding why she seems to be getting blamed for having money & fame, or even why she should have to be the face of the transgender community. It would certainly be nice if she helped other transgender people in some way, but it's not actually required that she does. Is every female who is rich & famous required to help other females? Is every male who is rich & famous required to help all other males? No, they aren't, so why would someone who happens to be transgender be required to help other transgenders? Why can't she just enjoy her rich & famous life without being required to take on the problems of all transgender people?

[nexxie]

I'm cool with Cait just being Cait - and if her amazing transition from world-class male athlete to 65-year-old reality show female helps others, so much the better.

[iwasish]

Again, I'm not understanding why she seems to be getting blamed for having money & fame, or even why she should have to be the face of the transgender community. It would certainly be nice if she helped other transgender people in some way, but it's not actually required that she does. Is every female who is rich & famous required to help other females? Is every male who is rich & famous required to help all other males? No, they aren't, so why would someone who happens to be transgender be required to help other transgenders? Why can't she just enjoy her rich & famous life without being required to take on the problems of all transgender people?

I don't require that she help others, but she herself has announced it as her mission. "We're going to do good things" she is the one setting the up publics expectation.

She talks about the public pressure to be attractive as a woman, yet she spends a good portion of the clips we've seen so far, primping and preening and seeking confirmation of her attractiveness. Nothing wrong with wanting to look nice, but the giddiness over the famous designers vying to design her ESPY dress and the hobnobbing with celebs she would never have been bothered with before, how does that read to a young teen struggling with his/her identity? How they they relate? Even at their young age they see the huge class difference between Caitlyn and themselves. No one will be buying or donating designer clothing to them, the entire school body isn't going to be waiting to greet them with open arms after they transition. I don't see them as being inspired by her all that much. Now if she's out in the community, no cameras, no press, no tweets or selfies, just as Cait, speaking individually or to small groups in small towns and cities, that may do some good.

I wish her well and I wish her happiness. But I'll reserve final judgement as to the sincerity of her words, till long after the show airs and the newness of "her" fades.

[GaT]

Nothing wrong with wanting to look nice, but the giddiness over the famous designers vying to design her ESPY dress and the hobnobbing with celebs she would never have been bothered with before, how does that read to a young teen struggling with his/her identity? How they they relate? Even at their young age they see the huge class difference between Caitlyn and themselves. No one will be buying or donating designer clothing to them, the entire school body isn't going to be waiting to greet them with open arms after they transition. I don't see them as being inspired by her all that much. Now if she's out in the community, no cameras, no press, no tweets or selfies, just as Cait, speaking individually or to small groups in small towns and cities, that may do some good.

 

But, how is this any different from any famous female & a teen? Let's take all the young (& stupid) girls who admire Kim, how can they possibly relate to her? She gets put on the cover of Vogue & Rolling Stone, she gets designer clothing & God knows what else given to her, there's a huge class difference between them & her. How is the average teen girl going to be like her? And to top it off, man or woman, Caitlyn is 65 years old, how are teens going to relate to someone that much older than them? It's like the average 16 years old girl trying to be like Helen Mirren, it just doesn't work that way. A young transgender person is going to have a different set of problems than a 65 years old transgender.

Edited July 23, 2015 by GaT

[Coffeecup]

Reviews on the first I Am Cait episode are coming in. Episode 1 was shown to the media TV critics.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2015/07/i_am_cait_on_e_reviewed_caityln_jenner_s_reality_series_would_benefit_from.html

Slate is lukewarm about the show: "I Am Cait is not invasive or crass, but it’s something more surprising — a bad reality show." The Slate critic thought the show was dull, with not enough dramatic tension between the people.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/reviews/i-am-cait-tv-review-caitlyn-jenner-e-doc-1201544080/

The Variety critic liked the show better but thought the Kardashians should be kept off the show: "... [the show is] mucked up to a degree by bringing her famous daughters and stepdaughters into the mix, including a visit from Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. While Jenner’s interactions with her extended family are clearly part of the narrative, there’s a pandering quality to shoehorning the couple and daughter Kylie into the premiere, as if E! and the producers needed a security blanket to make sure they catered to that audience too."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/22/i-am-cait-review-reality-tv-has-never-been-this-essential-or-this-good.html

The Daily Beast loved it: "I Am Cait... is reality TV in its highest form. It’s responsible, but not stuffy in the way that word might suggest. It’s a joyous, emotional, and only occasionally preachy depiction not only of a woman’s coming into her own, but of her acceptance of the influence that’s been bestowed on her merely by her high-profile decision to live as her truest self."

So there you go. Three quite different reactions to the show, and there are lots more reviews posted.

[Kromm]

Again, I'm not understanding why she seems to be getting blamed for having money & fame, or even why she should have to be the face of the transgender community. It would certainly be nice if she helped other transgender people in some way, but it's not actually required that she does. Is every female who is rich & famous required to help other females? Is every male who is rich & famous required to help all other males? No, they aren't, so why would someone who happens to be transgender be required to help other transgenders? Why can't she just enjoy her rich & famous life without being required to take on the problems of all transgender people?

To be fair to the critics here though. she DID choose to launch a high profile reality show right after her transition. That wasn't just something already in place in her life already like her (base) wealth and pre-existing fame. Not that anyone's expecting her to hide out or anything, but opening that door (which involves a sudden explosive and exponential increase in that fame and fortune) quite logically focuses people on her fame and fortune. It would be odd, a kind of denial of human nature I'd argue, to expect people to look at that and not ask why we're supposed to be paying more attention to this specific person. And finally, arguing she should be allowed to "enjoy her rich & famous life" removes the aspect totally of her having thrust herself into greater exposure. Someone enjoying a rich life in private is a basic human right (and one the paparazzi, for example, ruin and should be held more accountable for).  Someone enjoying a rich life where they're willing partners in that increased public exposure is someone largely responsible for the deeper hole they're in. We can't just cast them as victims, when it's a willing submission to the (modern) process of fame.

[GaT]

To be fair to the critics here though. she DID choose to launch a high profile reality show right after her transition. 

Yes, but she was also part of a high profile reality show before her transition, so she's not really doing anything new, she's just doing it as a woman now.

[millennium]

Reviews on the first I Am Cait episode are coming in. Episode 1 was shown to the media TV critics.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2015/07/i_am_cait_on_e_reviewed_caityln_jenner_s_reality_series_would_benefit_from.html

Slate is lukewarm about the show: "I Am Cait is not invasive or crass, but it’s something more surprising — a bad reality show." The Slate critic thought the show was dull, with not enough dramatic tension between the people.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/reviews/i-am-cait-tv-review-caitlyn-jenner-e-doc-1201544080/

The Variety critic liked the show better but thought the Kardashians should be kept off the show: "... [the show is] mucked up to a degree by bringing her famous daughters and stepdaughters into the mix, including a visit from Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. While Jenner’s interactions with her extended family are clearly part of the narrative, there’s a pandering quality to shoehorning the couple and daughter Kylie into the premiere, as if E! and the producers needed a security blanket to make sure they catered to that audience too."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/22/i-am-cait-review-reality-tv-has-never-been-this-essential-or-this-good.html

The Daily Beast loved it: "I Am Cait... is reality TV in its highest form. It’s responsible, but not stuffy in the way that word might suggest. It’s a joyous, emotional, and only occasionally preachy depiction not only of a woman’s coming into her own, but of her acceptance of the influence that’s been bestowed on her merely by her high-profile decision to live as her truest self."

So there you go. Three quite different reactions to the show, and there are lots more reviews posted.

 

 

From the Slate review:

 

I Am Cait is none of these things. It is neither invasive nor self-obsessed. It begins in the middle of the night, at 4:32 a.m., with a makeup-less Jenner unleashing the thoughts keeping her from sleep, about trans youth dying, about trans youth being murdered, about whether her platform, her image, her approach can help them. “I hope I get it right,” she says. Jenner is keenly aware that she has made herself the public face of a movement for acceptance and equality, and she is willing to look like a wreck, to be a wreck, over these issues.

 

I don't buy it for a minute.   It reads like some of the hokiest, most obviously scripted shit ever filmed.  

[howmanywords]

http://www.toofab.com/2015/07/22/kanye-west-caitlyn-jenner-i-am-cait/

I'm anxious to see Kanye with her too and the description sounds nice.  Kanye may be a huge douchebag but I always viewed him as someone who very much values family and ever since his mother died really wanted a tight family so I'm not shocked he actually agreed to be on here and is showing support.   This is the second time we're hearing that it was Kanye helped Kim understand the transition better

[iwasish]

But, how is this any different from any famous female & a teen? Let's take all the young (& stupid) girls who admire Kim, how can they possibly relate to her? She gets put on the cover of Vogue & Rolling Stone, she gets designer clothing & God knows what else given to her, there's a huge class difference between them & her. How is the average teen girl going to be like her? And to top it off, man or woman, Caitlyn is 65 years old, how are teens going to relate to someone that much older than them? It's like the average 16 years old girl trying to be like Helen Mirren, it just doesn't work that way. A young transgender person is going to have a different set of problems than a 65 years old transgender.

I think intrinsically that is the problem. She may well have the best of intentions but the divide between Cait with her lifetime of fame and fortune is so far removed from the world most people, transgender or not, live in, it's likely they see nothing to relate to, or worse, feel more despair, realizing the doiors that are open to Cait will most likely never be open to them.

I guess my opinions like so many others are tainted by the whole reality show aura or stench. If she did a documentary, I might be able to view it with a more open mind, but just the clips alone that I've seen have that obvious " for the camera" quality. Even the idea that she subjects her 80 plus mother to meeting her for the first time on camera... It may make for good tv, but I think it's cruel.

I'll watch the show, but have low expectations for any lasting and sincere association with the transgender community over the long term.

[nexxie]

Yes, but she was also part of a high profile reality show before her transition, so she's not really doing anything new, she's just doing it as a woman now.

And finally it's about her - Bruce was portrayed as isolated and belittled on that other show; it was Bruce from Kris' point of view.

Anyone remember them renewing their vows? WTF!

[iwasish]

Watching a marathon now, season 7. Caitlyn has shorter hair and wearing a large diamond stud in each ear.

[Artsda]

Wasn't it Rob taking Bruce out for a clubbing night when the ears were pierced? 

[nexxie]

Still no news of a baby delivery for Brandon and Leah - but hopefully Mason, P and Reign have finally met "Grandma Caitlyn!" I would love to know what Mason said about the transition from what Scott once called "That Grandpa he used to have."

[HumblePi]

Again, I'm not understanding why she seems to be getting blamed for having money & fame, or even why she should have to be the face of the transgender community. It would certainly be nice if she helped other transgender people in some way, but it's not actually required that she does. Is every female who is rich & famous required to help other females? Is every male who is rich & famous required to help all other males? No, they aren't, so why would someone who happens to be transgender be required to help other transgenders? Why can't she just enjoy her rich & famous life without being required to take on the problems of all transgender people?

Nobody is 'blaming' her for being a multi-millionaire. But with money comes privileges as everyone knows. Bruce Jenner worked very hard for his fame and for the riches that followed by establishing a career in television, film, auto racing, and business. As you said, it's not Cailtlyn Jenner's responsibility to financially support others who wish to transgender. So, there is no blame for her having wealth. What people perceive as a ways and means to further her own celebrity career, and subsequently build up an empire through wealth is what people question.

 

It’s more that whatever courage she may have has been lost to or hidden by all the attention she can possibly gain, including photo and video shoots of her Vanity Fair glamour makeover. I don't think it takes courage, but it does take lots of lights, cameras, makeup and wardrobe consultants. Maybe we’re just unfamiliar with the kind of courage it takes to abandon one’s dignity on behalf of any life-altering decision. Caitlyn Jenner is highly skilled at the art of sales and marketing and had to strike while the iron was hot, which she did by receiving the ESPYS Arthur Ashe Courage Award. Her 'docu-series' will no doubt have some curiosity seekers at first, but they'll soon tire of the attention mongering.

 

Caitlyn Jenner in no way feels responsible for 'taking on all the problems of the transgender community'. There's no doubt that Caitlyn Jenner will surely enjoy her new-found fame and richer-than-ever famous existence.

[millennium]

 

 

Caitlyn Jenner in no way feels responsible for 'taking on all the problems of the transgender community'. There's no doubt that Caitlyn Jenner will surely enjoy her new-found fame and richer-than-ever famous existence.

 

Except Jenner wants it both ways -- to be rich and fabulous AND have the public believe that all the problems of the transgender community are being borne upon those broad shoulders (see the spoiler in my post above).   Thing is, I don't see any current headlines like "Caitlyn Jenner appeals to local Congressional representatives about transgender rights."  Instead, the headlines I'm seeing today are "Caitlyn Jenner Shows Off Her Shoe Collection."

 

Shoe Collection?  Really, Imelda?

 

Is Jenner completely tone deaf or does Jenner simply not give a shit about the impression that leaves?    Transgender people all over America can't meet their rents, can't afford hormones, surgery or other health care, can't get the counseling they need, are being fired from their jobs, but "sleepless" Jenner, the "Transgender Superhero" (kudos to Kromm) is showing off a fucking shoe collection.  

 

At the same time, Jenner seems to be demonstrating a very shallow, stereotypical and crass male view of what it means to be a woman.  "Oh look at my pretty designer dresses, check out my shoe collection, here I am having my glamour makeover and boudoir photo shoot."  What next?  A Barbie Dreamhouse?   Jenner's reality is not only totally out of touch with most transgender people, but also most women.   

Edited July 23, 2015 by millennium

[GaT]

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, so this will be the last time I post about this. Why can't she show off her shoe collection? If she doesn't show it off, will all those transgender people without hormones, health care, or rent money suddenly get them? Angelina Jolie & Brad Pitt are known for their humanitarian work, but they also bought themselves a nice French castle with a moat & Angelina recently bought Brad a special Aston Martin that goes for 200K. George Clooney is known for his work with human rights, but he also owns 2 vacation villas in Lake Como, italy. So what if Caitlyn is showing off her shoes? She can have fun being a girl AND help people. And she doesn't have to be on "transgender call" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Every second of her life doesn't have to be about helping other people.

[Kromm]

Watching a marathon now, season 7. Caitlyn has shorter hair and wearing a large diamond stud in each ear.

Heh.  Again we hit the realty of what to call the person.  To me, earings or not, that was still "Bruce".  Because he (and it WAS "he" at that point) hadn't asked anyone to use any other form of address. In retrospect I STILL think we should call Caitlyn "Bruce" in this case, because we're visually-keyed as human beings and the person we're seeing during those clips is looking, acting, and publicly identifying as a male.  Whatever inner dialogs Bruce may or may not have been having about his gender identity in those years isn't on screen for us to see.

[Kromm]

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, so this will be the last time I post about this. Why can't she show off her shoe collection? 

She CAN.  

 

But why should we be obliged to like it or react positively?  Is that an obligation simply because Caitlyn Jenner is a transgender figurehead?  Of course not.  

 

Caitlyn can do whatever she wants. It's her right. But that doesn't oblige viewers to express only love for her. You may not agree with their reasons for disliking her, and I think it's a fair question to ask people why they feel that way, but sometimes you just run up against the reality ("real" reality) that people often just feel a certain way, and that's that.

 

I ask myself occasionally "is it REASONABLE that someone feels a certain way even if I don't agree with it".  For example, lets take the "Bruce killed a woman in an accident and so Caitlyn is practically getting away with murder" camp.  I strongly disagree with this conclusion, but I UNDERSTAND why people feel this way. It's not an unreasonable way to feel, IMO, as long as the person arguing doesn't seem obsessive or unwilling to actually debate things.

[millennium]

Jenner's the one who turned this into a crusade, not me.   If the goal was to become a vain and shallow girly-girl, more power.  But from the start Jenner gave the battle cry "we're going to change the world" and now seeming to lose beauty sleep over dire transgender issues.

 

Personally, I think Jenner is a hypocrite who gives lip service to transgender issues as a means of dignifying and legitimizing what is, in essence, a cheap, meaningless and deeply exploitative reality show.

Edited July 23, 2015 by millennium

[Kromm]

 Instead, the headlines I'm seeing today are "Caitlyn Jenner Shows Off Her Shoe Collection."

 

Shoe Collection?  Really, Imelda?

I don't totally trust those headlines though.  Chances are even someone shallow was doing more in that media appearance than showing off shoes.  But the media report CHOSE to focus on the shoes.  

 

To me there's the impression that Caitlyn, while super-media savvy, has been somewhat bent in her ideas of what people want to see because her (maybe romanticized?) model has been Kris, Kim, etc. and what's on their show.  And the ratings and endless tabloid coverage maybe prove she's right to think that will get her "ink". So it's kind of slimy, but if the ink is the goal, then showing people your shoes is probably a good thing to do if you are a Kardashian Girl, version 2.0.

 

But I leave room for the possibility that because more probably happened on that visit that how shallow it comes off might not actually have been intentional.

[Kromm]

I think intrinsically that is the problem. She may well have the best of intentions but the divide between Cait with her lifetime of fame and fortune is so far removed from the world most people, transgender or not, live in, it's likely they see nothing to relate to, or worse, feel more despair, realizing the doiors that are open to Cait will most likely never be open to them.

I guess my opinions like so many others are tainted by the whole reality show aura or stench. If she did a documentary, I might be able to view it with a more open mind, but just the clips alone that I've seen have that obvious " for the camera" quality. Even the idea that she subjects her 80 plus mother to meeting her for the first time on camera... It may make for good tv, but I think it's cruel.

I'll watch the show, but have low expectations for any lasting and sincere association with the transgender community over the long term.

I have to highlight the above as a really good post (although I thumbs upped it I wanted to do more and say WHY I liked it).

 

1.) It fairly concludes that Caitlyn may have good intentions.

2.) It speaks to the issue that Caitlyn is some fantasy version of a Transgender without assigning blame to that overall, but also doesn't whitewash the fact that Caitlyn is perfectly willing to do some creepy/slimy stuff, like trot her mother out for an emotional reveal in front of the whole world.

3.) The poster admits they're still gong to watch. That's key. We have to be honest with/about ourselves before we dig into the people we see onscreen. If we're willing to watch, then at least a little there's a point to what the star/show is doing (even if we might hate ourselves for watching later on).

Edited July 23, 2015 by Kromm

[millennium]

I don't totally trust those headlines though.  Chances are even someone shallow was doing more in that media appearance than showing off shoes.  But the media report CHOSE to focus on the shoes.  

 

To me there's the impression that Caitlyn, while super-media savvy, has been somewhat bent in her ideas of what people want to see because her (maybe romanticized?) model has been Kris, Kim, etc. and what's on their show.  And the ratings and endless tabloid coverage maybe prove she's right to think that will get her "ink". So it's kind of slimy, but if the ink is the goal, then showing people your shoes is probably a good thing to do if you are a Kardashian Girl, version 2.0.

 

But I leave room for the possibility that because more probably happened on that visit that how shallow it comes off might not actually have been intentional.

 

Go to Google News and look up "jenner shoe collection."    There are articles in about 50 different publications

 

Seen anything Jenner's said or done regarding the transgender community and its problems get that kind of coverage?

3.) The poster admits they're still gong to watch. That's key. We have to be honest with/about ourselves before we dig into the people we see onscreen. If we're willing to watch, then at least a little there's a point to what the star/show is doing (even if we might hate ourselves for watching later on).

 

For what it's worth, I will never watch that show.   

[Kromm]

Go to Google News and look up "jenner shoe collection."    There are articles in about 50 different publications

 

Seen anything Jenner's said or done regarding the transgender community and its problems get that kind of coverage?

 

For what it's worth, I will never watch that show.   

Okay to be fair I didn't realize this happened because of an Instagram post made by Caitlyn herself (or rather her social media team).

 

That's completely intentional and CAN'T be blamed on how someone reports it.  It's what you're giving them straight from the tap, after all.

 

But getting back to the issue of where Caitlyn got her "girl media training", I suppose she's been witness to how people have reacted to Kim and the girls showing off clothes and shoes for years.  And as GaT might point out (probably with different words though!), it's not inherently incumbent on Caitlyn to NOT act like a Kardashian. It's her right to do so. {now out of GaT mode...} Just as it's ours to roll our eyes and dismiss her as just another stupid Kardashian BECAUSE this is how she chooses to express herself. The issue literally has nothing to do with her being Transgender other than the fact that Caitlyn has also seemingly willingly embraced people giving her awards because of her transition and made weighty statements to a camera about having a responsibility. The net result for me is thinking "okay, then you're failing the responsibility you've assigned yourself". There's a kind of "pick a side" aspect to it (except I suppose they aren't really "sides" but more positions).  Either you can act like a Kardashian or you can willingly step into a responsibility to be a positive symbol.  Doing both is probably impossible. Nobody is MAKING her be a symbol, but if she wants to now act like that's part of her agenda, then step up.  If it's not, then step back.

BTW: am I the only one rolling eyes at someone in their mid 60s saying "dontcha think" instead of "don't you think"?

Edited July 23, 2015 by Kromm

[millennium]

After someone in their mid-60's appearing in a corset and panties on the cover of a national magazine, the aping of teen chat-speak barely registers a blink.

[nexxie]

After someone in their mid-60's appearing in a corset and panties on the cover of a national magazine, the aping of teen chat-speak barely registers a blink.

That part is a bit strange for me - not that he's become a she, but that he's become a teeny bopper in some ways. Perhaps making up for lost time, or just the Hollyweird influence.

[Crucial]

Go to Google News and look up "jenner shoe collection."    There are articles in about 50 different publications

 

Seen anything Jenner's said or done regarding the transgender community and its problems get that kind of coverage?

 

For what it's worth, I will never watch that show.   

Me either and I have yet to hear that.  You get shot of her at a club, race track, shoe collection.  I'm losing my support for her fact because she is becoming nothing more than a Kardashian event who is going to have photos of where she is and the show of her doing what she likes.  You got a courage award ( You DEMANDED it) why not start some talk in the media of what you are doing. I'm not watching this show because I don't think I would see any help or talk about the community.  I think it's her having fun being a girl and doing the whole dress up thing.  Also, the paid for espy's/espn coverage too.

[HumblePi]

Watching a marathon now, season 7. Caitlyn has shorter hair and wearing a large diamond stud in each ear.

I watched some of that marathon, from 2012. It was the episode when Kris, Bruce and Khloe were going to Boston. There were some very revealing remarks and innuendo made in that episode between Kris and Bruce. Contempt bordering on hatred was clear between Kris and Bruce.

 

I sort of got a laugh though in another episode where Khloe was showing Kim all the shoes she bought Bruce (yes, he was still Bruce) She picked a pair of high heels shoes out of the box and said to Kim "they're 13M, I have no idea what M means".   Well duh Khloe, how many things can the M mean in shoe size. I had a sneaky feeling she thought it meant "male" and never considered it would mean medium.

Edited July 24, 2015 by HumblePi

[HumblePi]

I have to highlight the above as a really good post (although I thumbs upped it I wanted to do more and say WHY I liked it).

 

1.) It fairly concludes that Caitlyn may have good intentions.

2.) It speaks to the issue that Caitlyn is some fantasy version of a Transgender without assigning blame to that overall, but also doesn't whitewash the fact that Caitlyn is perfectly willing to do some creepy/slimy stuff, like trot her mother out for an emotional reveal in front of the whole world.

3.) The poster admits they're still gong to watch. That's key. We have to be honest with/about ourselves before we dig into the people we see onscreen. If we're willing to watch, then at least a little there's a point to what the star/show is doing (even if we might hate ourselves for watching later on).

I saw an extended look at the premiere episode on Sunday and that told me exactly what I thought. I won't be watching.

Edited July 24, 2015 by HumblePi

[JBC344]

Yes. Rich and famous Caitlyn won't have to face age discrimination like other 60+ senior citizen women looking for a job. She won't face sex discrimination in a job search; she'll never have to prove she can do a job as well as a man, and she will never have to do the same job as a man for less pay. In fact, I heard that she'll make even higher fees on the motivational speaker circuit as Caitlyn than she made as Bruce. With all the publicity and the reality show, she will never have to endure the awful feeling of being "invisible," which is experienced by many older women. Well, more power to her in getting the money, but she'll never be able to comprehend what it's like to be an ordinary elderly woman.

Isn't this really any rich person in the US tough?  I mean, you could say the same thing about Caitlyn when she was Bruce.  I just don't know how "fair" it is to use Caitlyn's money against her as a sticking point of "she's not real, she won't ever know what it is like to be a "real" woman".  I mean on one hand at least Caitlyn when she was Bruce earned all of her money, she wasn't a trust fund baby that was just handed millions.

[HumblePi]

Yes, but she was also part of a high profile reality show before her transition, so she's not really doing anything new, she's just doing it as a woman now.

She's also doing it as the Executive Producer of her own show. What does that tell us?  Well, it tells is it will be 'sensitive', there will be soft background music, flowing gowns, a lot of makeup and a few tears sprinkled in here and there.

[Kromm]

Isn't this really any rich person in the US tough?

I think there's an ongoing confusion that all of this criticism is simply because Caitlyn has money. I don't think that's the case. I think it's because Caitlyn's experience AS a rich person isn't one that many other transgender will have any hope of truly emulating. True, that's not Caitlyn's FAULT, but Cait is the one milking that experience to make more money.

 

Not Caitlyn Jenner simply living her life

At the core of things Caitlyn Jenner has every right to live her life. I haven't read anyone (at least here) denying that.

The issue IS similar to the Duggars (who you also mention) though. They, just as much as Caitlyn, CHOSE to live their life in public and similarly to present their journey as inspirational for other people. And when you deliberately thrust yourself into the public forum for profit, then you aren't just "living your life". You have voluntarily ceded a large percentage of your life, of your right to privacy, to the public, in trade for money. The Duggars did this. Bruce Jenner did this and Caitlyn continues to do this. Outrage about them being not allowed to live their lives in my opinion is wasted breath because they did this. It doesn't mean it's total open season on them for anything, but it DOES mean that outrage over the public commenting on what these celebrities are willingly putting out there loses a ton of it's righteousness. Cait is rich. Cait wants to live an extremely public life. Ergo Cait has to accept people having opinions like "money doesn't make her a very realistic model for other Transgender to emulate". That's not an attack on her for having money. It's an attack on the situation where Caitlyn Jenner is trotted out in hundreds of tabloids, at endless events, all over Social Media, at Awards shows and on a reality show doing things a typical transgender couldn't even aspire to, muchless do. It's a reality check on the reality show, so to speak. It's not "blaming" or "disallowing" someone's life. And it doesn't mean that Caitlyn even has some kind of automatic obligation to present a realistic model for other Transgender. But it means that if Caitlyn can be fairly criticized for it because she's deliberately put herself in that position (and personally I think she created an obligation the moment she [allegedly] pursued getting a Courage Award, and seems set on a course of being an ongoing motivational speaker on these issues).

Edited July 24, 2015 by Kromm

[JBC344]

I think there's an ongoing confusion that all of this criticism is simply because Caitlyn has money. I don't think that's the case. I think it's because Caitlyn's experience AS a rich person isn't one that many other transgender will have any hope of truly emulating. True, that's not Caitlyn's FAULT, but Cait is the one milking that experience to make more money.

 

At the core of things Caitlyn Jenner has every right to live her life. I haven't read anyone (at least here) denying that.

The issue IS similar to the Duggars (who you also mention) though. They, just as much as Caitlyn, CHOSE to live their life in public and similarly to present their journey as inspirational for other people. And when you deliberately thrust yourself into the public forum for profit, then you aren't just "living your life". You have voluntarily ceded a large percentage of your life, of your right to privacy, to the public, in trade for money. The Duggars did this. Bruce Jenner did this and Caitlyn continues to do this. Outrage about them being not allowed to live their lives in my opinion is wasted breath because they did this. It doesn't mean it's total open season on them for anything, but it DOES mean that outrage over the public commenting on what these celebrities are willingly putting out there loses a ton of it's righteousness. Cait is rich. Cait wants to live an extremely public life. Ergo Cait has to accept people having opinions like "money doesn't make her a very realistic model for other Transgender to emulate". That's not an attack on her for having money. It's an attack on the situation where Caitlyn Jenner is trotted out in hundreds of tabloids, at endless events, all over Social Media, at Awards shows and on a reality show doing things a typical transgender couldn't even aspire to, muchless do. It's a reality check on the reality show, so to speak. It's not "blaming" or "disallowing" someone's life. And it doesn't mean that Caitlyn even has some kind of automatic obligation to present a realistic model for other Transgender. But it means that if Caitlyn can be fairly criticized for it because she's deliberately put herself in that position (and personally I think she created an obligation the moment she [allegedly] pursued getting a Courage Award, and seems set on a course of being an ongoing motivational speaker on these issues).

Oh I absolutely think that money is being used as a catalyst/scapegoat as a way to take a dig at Caitlyn.  The money aspect is totally being used a "negative" and a way to divide her from the transgender community.  Yes, it is true that Caitlyn's experience as someone who transitions with money is different than someone who transitions without millions of dollars.  I guess my point is why is that an argument to bring up in the first place?  Why is Caitlyn not being like the "average" transgender person a point of mention, especially one that has a negative connotation? 

 

Besides isn't it a good thing that Caitlyn isn't like the "average"?  Doesn't every movement or cause benefit from having someone with money and power on their side to help spread the message, and get their ideals out?  I would think that would be a plus for the transgender community.

[Kromm]

Besides isn't it a good thing that Caitlyn isn't like the "average"?  Doesn't every movement or cause benefit from having someone with money and power on their side to help spread the message, and get their ideals out?  I would think that would be a plus for the transgender community.

True, but there's a difference between being a champion and being a model to emulate. Caitlyn is a very good example of the first (because she has the power and money to be so) and a not so good choice for the second (because it's so unrealistic)

Maybe that's the hair that has to be split here.  That Caitlyn is like Super-Trans, not Average-Trans.  I called her a "Fantasy" a few posts ago, and maybe that's the best way to think of her.  It's not an insult unless someone wants it to be.

[Maya]

I think what bugs me most about Caitlyn is that she just seems so fake and insincere. Not even factoring in money, I believe that if she had to choose between fame and helping the transgender community, she would choose fame.

[millennium]

Oh I absolutely think that money is being used as a catalyst/scapegoat as a way to take a dig at Caitlyn.  The money aspect is totally being used a "negative" and a way to divide her from the transgender community.  Yes, it is true that Caitlyn's experience as someone who transitions with money is different than someone who transitions without millions of dollars.  I guess my point is why is that an argument to bring up in the first place?  Why is Caitlyn not being like the "average" transgender person a point of mention, especially one that has a negative connotation? 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's the money that angers people, but the privilege it has bought and the way Jenner is using it to perpetuate a fairy tale version of transgender life,  even as the real story desperately waits to be told.   

 

Ironically, Jenner's Cinderella story may ensure that the real story never gets told.  The real story is not pretty or glamorous.   It has no celebrities.   Makeover miracles are few and far between.   No matter how hard they try, there are many who simply can't make their faces and bodies fit the person they feel inside.    There's no Annie Liebowitz, no Vanity Fair, no ESPY's.   Not even so much as health insurance coverage, in most cases.  It's a story of hardship and painful experiences, full of rejection, ridicule, loss and loneliness, broken families, despair, and even suicide.

 

After the frothy Jenner/Kardashian show, who'll want to watch that?   Jenner has reinforced -- in fact, probably cemented -- the media's unwritten rule that the only transgender people worthy of attention are those who are either rich, famous or beautiful.  

I think there's an ongoing confusion that all of this criticism is simply because Caitlyn has money. I don't think that's the case. I think it's because Caitlyn's experience AS a rich person isn't one that many other transgender will have any hope of truly emulating. True, that's not Caitlyn's FAULT, but Cait is the one milking that experience to make more money.

 

 

^ This.

Ergo Cait has to accept people having opinions like "money doesn't make her a very realistic model for other Transgender to emulate". That's not an attack on her for having money. It's an attack on the situation where Caitlyn Jenner is trotted out in hundreds of tabloids, at endless events, all over Social Media, at Awards shows and on a reality show doing things a typical transgender couldn't even aspire to, muchless do.

 

 

^ This.

But it means that if Caitlyn can be fairly criticized for it because she's deliberately put herself in that position (and personally I think she created an obligation the moment she [allegedly] pursued getting a Courage Award, and seems set on a course of being an ongoing motivational speaker on these issues).

 

^ And this.

[Snarryfan]

 

Ironically, Jenner's Cinderella story may ensure that the real story never gets told.  The real story is not pretty or glamorous.   It has no celebrities.   Makeover miracles are few and far between.   No matter how hard they try, there are many who simply can't make their faces and bodies fit the person they feel inside.    There's no Annie Liebowitz, no Vanity Fair, no ESPY's.   Not even so much as health insurance coverage, in most cases.  It's a story of hardship and painful experiences, full of rejection, ridicule, loss and loneliness, broken families, despair, and even suicide.

That story is being told. It was told in an evocative Frontline special about trans kids, it's being told on Becoming Us on the ABC Family Network, it's being told on I Am Jazz on TLC, it's being told in Transparent, it's being told in Orange is the New Black, and it's being told in news specials (like NBC) about trans adults and trans kids.  The "media" always focuses on pretty people, rich people, well-spoken people. It's why Andrew Sullivan became a self-annointed spokesperson for the gay community, even though he's a giant hypocrite, while Dan Savage is still looked at as problematic by the "mainstream." Will and Grace, Queer as Folk, the L Word, and Queer Eye were exceedingly popular but none of those shows highlighted the experiences of the poor/people of color/gender-non-conforming/disabled. And that has always been the case with media--and too often the media deals with minority stories as 1) Hopeful inspiration; 2) Tragedy. The one thing I take away--Caitlyn is not being treated like a Freak. Is there an overabundance of media saturation, yes. Is that all her? No. Is some of it her? Yes.   It would be fabulous if E! did a show about a poor quadroplegic Latina transwoman. But, and to quote the West Wing, "it would make the cast of Up With People sit down and cry."

[hendersonrocks]

Ironically, Jenner's Cinderella story may ensure that the real story never gets told.  The real story is not pretty or glamorous.   It has no celebrities.   Makeover miracles are few and far between.   No matter how hard they try, there are many who simply can't make their faces and bodies fit the person they feel inside.    There's no Annie Liebowitz, no Vanity Fair, no ESPY's.   Not even so much as health insurance coverage, in most cases.  It's a story of hardship and painful experiences, full of rejection, ridicule, loss and loneliness, broken families, despair, and even suicide.

 

Who disagrees or disputes this, though? Does Caitlyn Jenner? And how do you know, really? It's obvious you're not a fan - and that's fine. I'm not a fan either. But I'm also not really sure anyone here is treading new ground with this circuitous and constant speculation about her motivations, her life, her fame, her money, or how easy or hard her new life is in comparison to any other transgender person in the world. Instead any conversation here has basically turned into the same talking points over and over and over again. Meh.

[millennium]

 The one thing I take away--Caitlyn is not being treated like a Freak. 

 

Nobody should be treated like a freak.    But I don't think I've ever seen another case where anyone, transgender or not, was so effectively shielded against even the slightest hint of public criticism.  I can't help but compare Jenner's situation to that of other transgender people who risk ridicule every time they leave the house.  

Edited July 24, 2015 by millennium

[Coffeecup]

After someone in their mid-60's appearing in a corset and panties on the cover of a national magazine, the aping of teen chat-speak barely registers a blink.

LMAO! You just made me snort tea all over my keyboard. I'm a woman Caitlyn's age, and a magazine editor would have to throw a Brinks truck full of $100 bills at me to convince me to pose in my underwear.

Whoever said Jenner wants to be a "Kardashian girl," I think that's absolutely correct. Caitlyn seems more interested in TransGlam than transgender. It's all about her hair, makeup, clothes and shoes, i.e. the Glam Squad, and being photographed by the paps while she walks around going to lunch or attending events. It's the Kardashian Ho Stroll all over again. I hope Caitlyn does not become so much of a Kardashian girl that she starts posing nude like the rest of them. I don't want to see a Caitlyn version of Kim's Paper magazine photo shoot, where she stood giggling and naked in a black garbage bag. You know, the picture where they said "Kim broke the Internet." Please, Caitlyn, don't try to break the Internet. Let Kim have it.

I too am waiting for Caitlyn to take some solid action to help the transgender community, like lobbying the state legislature or Congress. But all I see so far is the glamour and fame part.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Coffeecup

[millennium]

Who disagrees or disputes this, though? Does Caitlyn Jenner? And how do you know, really? It's obvious you're not a fan - and that's fine. I'm not a fan either. But I'm also not really sure anyone here is treading new ground with this circuitous and constant speculation about her motivations, her life, her fame, her money, or how easy or hard her new life is in comparison to any other transgender person in the world. Instead any conversation here has basically turned into the same talking points over and over and over again. Meh.

 

 

I apologize if my responses have lapsed into talking points.   I'll try to be more conscious of this.

[biakbiak]

My issue with Caityln is I find her dim and as deep as a puddle, just like I found Bruce.

[iwasish]

I think as episodes of the show air and we see more than sound bites and clips, there will be a wider course of discussion. 

[jonesingjay]

Who disagrees or disputes this, though? Does Caitlyn Jenner? And how do you know, really? It's obvious you're not a fan - and that's fine. I'm not a fan either. But I'm also not really sure anyone here is treading new ground with this circuitous and constant speculation about her motivations, her life, her fame, her money, or how easy or hard her new life is in comparison to any other transgender person in the world. Instead any conversation here has basically turned into the same talking points over and over and over again. Meh.

 

You really do rock. 

[Found A Peanut]

I too am waiting for Caitlyn to take some solid action to help the transgender community, like lobbying the state legislature or Congress. But all I see so far is the glamour and fame part.

I think that, ethically, with great privilege comes great responsibility. But. Caitlyn's been out for about five minutes. What's wrong with her just enjoying herself and being girlish or womanly or however else she wants to play with her presentation? She's waited a long, long time for this, lived with an unimaginable amount of emotional pain and fear, and only she could say, really, but maybe getting to flaunt, look glam on magazine covers, and in general bask in the positive attention is balancing the scales for her just a bit. Sometimes, girls just wanna have fun.

Besides, there are transfolk and allies who've been fighting the good fight for years now. I very much hope that behind the scenes Caitlyn is having a good listen as the people who've been in the trenches tell her what's what, who's who, and where they think her influence will do the most good. No need for Caitlyn to sweep in and take over as leader of the pack.

[Kromm]

I think that, ethically, with great privilege comes great responsibility. But. Caitlyn's been out for about five minutes. What's wrong with her just enjoying herself and being girlish or womanly or however else she wants to play with her presentation? She's waited a long, long time for this, lived with an unimaginable amount of emotional pain and fear, and only she could say, really, but maybe getting to flaunt, look glam on magazine covers, and in general bask in the positive attention is balancing the scales for her just a bit. Sometimes, girls just wanna have fun.

That would be a fair enough observation, if Cait herself was saying that was the case.  But she's not.  She's talking up the importance of her role, but at the same time pairing that talking up with boat loads of shallow activities.

 

For me it's a case of living by your own words. If you don't want to be a figurehead and just have fun?  By all means, go for it!  But then don't bang on so much about how important this all is. Make clear statements on the matter. Live by them. Or if you don't want the responsibility of matching your actions to your words? Then in that case step back from the publicity (at least as much as possible).

 

It's even worse when outlets like People Magazine pump out content like this: 

 

PEOPLE.com: Caitlyn Jenner's Most Inspiring, Thought-Provoking Quotes (As of Yet)

In the months since she's announced her transition, the I Am Cait star has doled out many words of wisdom about gender, being true to yourself and having an impact

 

The actual quotes (they're in a slideshow in that article) aren't that bad. They're not genius either. The issue is less what she's actually saying, and more that even when the words ARE on target, they're at odds with many of the actions.  And undeniably the intent of the words is that she be taken seriously... so is it any wonder people wince when they hear those words mixed with news about shoe shopping, appearance schedules, what Kim thinks, etc.?

Edited July 26, 2015 by Kromm