S07.E18: Rumble On The Runway

[zoeysmom]

But they are not buying it to hang in the back room, they buy it intending to put it on the floor and sell it, and yes it is up to the designer/manufacturer to position their item and let the buyer know where they belong.  "Where will your clothing line hang in the department" is an industry term, it does not mean you are choosing the exact spot on the floor where it goes, this term is used in housewares and shoes that do not literally go on a hanger.  It means are you moderate, better, bridge, etc.  You say we are better sportswear they will know what you mean and yes the store decides where in the store exactly better sportswear is, but you have to tell them what you intend your category is.

That is not what Heather asked.  She asked who they would hang by as in designers.  Why would a buyer buy something not knowing where it goes?  The buyer from Macy's most likely is an expert in buying women's clothes and probably doesn't buy say juniors or infants or men's wear. What if Sonja said-auto parts?  Would her line be sent to the auto parts department.  I get that big labels pay to have huge sections set aside in department stores that feature just their brand.  I would think a buyer or department manager if they received 15 Sonja evening gowns would probably put them in the formal wear department not the bathing suit department.  Heather had seen Sonja's line as in a red silk dress and thought it was something KMart wanted so I don't think Heather should be wondering who the demographic is-she is either stupid or snide.

 

I look at it this way Bethenny in her blog thought it the best scene of the season was the season with Heather and the others  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/bethenny-frankel/bethenny-i-was-proud-of-Sonja  Bethenny doesn't get laughing at someone else's expense is wrong.  That hurt Sonja's feelings and did nothing to boost her confidence going into her fashion show.  I would expect more from Bethenny as she claims to be a big supporter of Sonja's and making fun of her just isn't supportive.  Heather knows it and feels it when it is directed at her.  Just like screaming in someone's face to STFU-veiled s helping Sonja it isn't supportive or even polite.

[OhGromit]

I heard $500 and $4500.  Bethany said, give me a check, I'll donate to Dress for Success.

 

I also heard $500 and $485.  

[LotusFlower]

Has any single person, excluding a HW, bought something from Sonja's line? It's not in stores, and is only available online, and has been up for months. If Sonja wants to be a designer, let alone an international lifestyle brand, then people have to buy your stuff. I don't think this is happening. I can't find any mention of sales, or reviews or feedback of any kind, anywhere. The only thing I could find was a post or two on Sonja's Facebook page - some fans saying they loved a swimsuit from her line she was wearing in a picture, and since it was one of the only affordable items in the collection, they wanted to buy it, but it was "sold out." (Which I'm sure means "the manufacturer never came through").

Honestly, I think this enterprise is only one step up from her toaster oven dream. Yes, the toaster oven was made (a few of them, at least), but is it selling? It's not a viable business unless people are buying. I'm guessing a lot of folks are losing a lot of money here - whether it's her backers or Sonja herself. I wonder if it will fold, or if we'll even know.

[BeachyMum]

I am starting to think Sonja really believes the crap that comes out of it.  She was doing runway at 14? She says she is 5'7 and there is no way in the early 80's she was tall enough, nor did/does she have striking looks to where they would overlook her lack of height.  That's delusional! Her prints look like it could be from her own comp card, not an ad for something.  IMO .

 Did Sonja slam the door on her head designer? That was rude. She looked and acted nuts on WWHL, but what else is new?

 

I didn't understand why Beth was going after Ramona now..she had already seen her at least twice since the c-block in T&C and never brought it up. Just weird timing..It would have looked more normal if she said it at Kristen's decorating the jeans event. Oh well, at least someone called Ramona out on her crap.

[sistermagpie]

That is not what Heather asked.  She asked who they would hang by as in designers.  Why would a buyer buy something not knowing where it goes?

 

 

But the buyer knows where it goes in large part because the designer tells them. They don't just get a box of stuff and decide on their own that it looks like it should go near such and such brands. By the time the buyer buys the thing everyone's on the same page about what type of clothing it is--they have all seen the clothes. 

 

Heather asking where they would hang is the same thing as asking what kind of clothes they are and who Sonja is trying to reach. This would have helped Heather and Bethany say something about the models, because if Sonja could tell them these are clothes hanging around X and Y lines they can imagine the models selling those kinds of clothes. Saying "there's no comparison" was like waving a red flag saying you're not actually in the business of selling clothing. They can't help Sonja say what she wants to say if they don't know what she's trying to say. I mean, whatever intentions Heather might even have had, there was no reason Sonja shouldn't have had a straightforward, simple answer to it. This isn't something she can hide as a designer.

Edited August 5, 2015 by sistermagpie

[LotusFlower]

I would think a buyer or department manager if they received 15 Sonja evening gowns would probably put them in the formal wear department not the bathing suit department.

This is the part you're missing - Bloomingdales and Nordstrom and Macy's aren't department stores like Marshalls - there's no such thing as the "formal wear" department. They sell formal wear, of course, but by designer. And the designers all have different aesthetics and points of view (yes, I watch Project Runway!), and different demographics. Do you know the difference between a Prada gown and a BCBG gown? The buyer does. Which makes Heather's question about as relevant and important and basic as you can get.

[Freckledbruh]

 

But the buyer knows where it goes in large part because the designer tells them.

That is definitely not true.  Joe Zee used to have a show where he helped fashion designers get placed in department stores and boutiques.  In most cases, the designers had no clue how their clothes would fit within the store and the buyers would tell them.  Some were completely surprised when a buyer would say that particular pieces would fit with Juniors rather than women and vice versa.  The designer doesn't always know how the buyer plans to merchandize his/her pieces, especially a brand new designer.

[Lizzing]

To me, Sonja and her CEO were just plain stupid in not answering Heather's question regarding what other brands Sonja wanted her clothes to be positioned by.  Hell, Sonja almost got there with the answer when she said she wanted a more Ralph Lauren looking model than a Versace girl, but didn't take it home by describing what the clothes looked like that necessitated the different model types.  I think Heather's intent was to narrow down from "Ralph Lauren", which, as pointed out above, has many levels of brands and different specialty lines.  Plus, as others have mentioned, all Heather's seen of Sonja's line is the one sample dress she wore to the magazine party and the stuff that was featured in her advertorial.  Given that there was some time between the magazine party and the actual runway show AND that this was really a sample line, having nothing produced in large quantities, some pieces could have been pulled and new ones added.  Bethenny only had a bit more knowledge about what Sonja was going for back when she (B) first saw the sketches.  But, at that meeting with the model choosing, Sonja and her CEO should have been able to articulate the answer to where Sonja's line should hang (i.e., classic American better sportswear, cruisewear, regular misses sportswear; high end/stupid expensive ball gowns, better dresses, designer, or cocktail).  Basically, Heather was asking what Michael Kors asked for a zillion seasons on Project Runway: Who is your girl? She'd want her brand to be near other lines in a similar vein and price point so she could compete.  The store isn't purposely going to buy the merch from Sonja to hide in a back room and ditch later in the outlet/discount market.  And Sonja would know THAT too, given her FIT degree in merchandising and the fact that selling off unsold clothing in bulk to places like TJ Maxx is what Ramona has done for years and made bank off of it.  (Don't know if Ro still has that business, but that was what she did back in the old days when this show started.)

 

And yeah, Sonja's collection is small, so it wouldn't be spread across the store.  You'd want to group something that small together to attract her fans and build up her name recognition.  It's not terribly analogous, but sort of like the limited designer runs Target does...when they get those high end designers doing a limited cheap/Target priced run, they're always displayed together, to mix and match, and show off, and only get mixed in with the other Target clothes when they hit the deep discount prices.  NTL, since she was talking buyers from major department stores being at her show (who knows if any showed up!), she'd still want to position her brand physically near similar styles/price points. If...and this is a huge if...she already had talks with the Bloomies and Macys of the world, she would have had to define her brand specifically enough, with actual pieces produced, for her to request where she thought her line should be placed when meeting with the buyers (whether or not the buyers agree).  Thus, she & the CEO should have been able to give comp that they saw appropriate..

 

OK, I have a wild theory on what set Bethenny off on Ramona, so just bare with me.  I think it was not only the fact that Ramona is going on about being different, and renewing herself, without little difference being demonstrated, but also she specifically said she was going to have a renewal party, or new leaf party, or whatever similar terms.  And that's a hell of a lot close to the "renewal" trip that led to Scary Island 1.0.  Also, Kelly Jelly Bellies was sprung on Bethenny once already this season.  Not that I think Bethenny was all that worried about Kelly popping up, but more like the whole "renewal" thing carries bad mojo and it isn't at all true.  So why not roll up the whole dress caper in the complaints.  If the new leaf had effectively turned, Ro could have broached the dress topic to "clear the air" as these women are wont to do.  And, while I have been critical of Bethenny earlier in this season, I think she's totally in the right to call Ro on her shit, and, quite possibly, the only one to effectively do it.  Dorinda could, to a degree, but not as far as Beth could.  Ro already made it clear in T&C that she only had to apologize to Beth, and not Luann, for acting like an ass in the room grab.  Ro doesn't like Heather, thinks Kristen is an idiot, and is only meh on Carole's opinion.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Lizzing

[Pattycake2]

"I have always assumed (perhaps wrongly, given a lot of the comments that I've seen here) that Sonja hasn't invested any money in this fashion line. Instead, I've always assumed that these people came to her, wanted to license her name and get exposure on the RHoNY, and in exchange Sonja gets a cut of the profits and a storyline for the show (and "redemption" because a project is finally working out for her). I've always assumed that she's had very little input on the line itself...maybe they ran the clothes by her, but I seriously doubt she's taking pen/pencil to paper and sketched out actual designs. I've always assumed that they gave Sonja information on a "need to know basis" and that's why she always seems clueless whenever anyone asks her specific questions. And, I've always assumed that, while she's the "figurehead" of the brand, she is definitely not in charge and the people that are seem annoyed whenever she tries to exert any kind of authority over anything. (Example: the guy at the fashion show who got yelled at for not showing her the second looks.... he looked like he wanted to say an awful lot, but was biting his tongue because they had to keep up the charade that Sonja actually has a say in any of this because of the Bravo cameras.) I could be completely wrong, but that's always what I've assumed."

 

KUDOS! I think you are completely correct! And maybe, just maybe, this line was never intended to go into real stores, but to only sell online. And that 's why there doesn't seem to be a real office or team members that can answer any questions. It's just an internet side bit to those folks.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Pattycake2

[sistermagpie]

That is definitely not true.  Joe Zee used to have a show where he helped fashion designers get placed in department stores and boutiques.  In most cases, the designers had no clue how their clothes would fit within the store and the buyers would tell them.  Some were completely surprised when a buyer would say that particular pieces would fit with Juniors rather than women and vice versa.  The designer doesn't always know how the buyer plans to merchandize his/her pieces, especially a brand new designer.

 

 

But isn't the point of Sonja's thing that she's not a designer or an artist who's making clothing but someone who is pushing a lifestyle brand? Isn't that why she's talking to branding people and Heather and Bethany? I thought the main thing Sonja was bringing to the table was supposed to be what the "Sonja Morgan woman" wants to buy. If she can't even say where she sees her clothes fitting in with other designers except to wrongly say there's no comparison, what's she there for? And if she doesn't know these things and is just learning them now, which would be fine, why is she refusing to do it by insisting there's no comparison even though everyone keeps asking her that?

 

I don't work in anything to do with clothing but in my business--and I suspect this is true of almost all types of work--you can often spot the amateur by their dismissal of basic professional questions in just this way. 

[Freckledbruh]

But isn't the point of Sonja's thing that she's not a designer or an artist who's making clothing but someone who is pushing a lifestyle brand? Isn't that why she's talking to branding people and Heather and Bethany? I thought the main thing Sonja was bringing to the table was supposed to be what the "Sonja Morgan woman" wants to buy. If she can't even say where she sees her clothes fitting in with other designers except to wrongly say there's no comparison, what's she there for? And if she doesn't know these things and is just learning them now, which would be fine, why is she refusing to do it by insisting there's no comparison even though everyone keeps asking her that?

 

I don't work in anything to do with clothing but in my business--and I suspect this is true of almost all types of work--you can often spot the amateur by their dismissal of basic professional questions in just this way. 

I think that she nor her team really wanted to discuss any of that on the show.  A long discussion on branding makes for some boring television.  This is the same woman that they had an "intervention" with and act like she is two seconds away from being a crack whore.  So why are they expecting her to answer 50-11 questions on demographics unless they planned on embarrassing her?  I was just pointing out that, no, not all designers know where and how a buyer plans to merchandize their pieces.  I've seen designers think their clothes are "cutting edge" and are shocked to find out that the buyer plans on selling the clothes to "mature" women.  If they wanted to offer constructive criticism, why couldn't they do that off camera?  Alls I know is that Bethenny would have eviscerated somebody if any of the HWs had asked her pointed questions about Skinny Girl when she was launching it.  "What makes your recipe different than all of the other 'skinny' ones that bartenders make?"  "How are you going to mass produce this without it tasting like chemical sludge?"  I don't have amnesia so I remember all of the myriad business ventures B had even before RHoNY that straight up failed because she threw everything against the wall hoping something would stick.  She's not some branding and marketing genius.  I wouldn't care if they did this to Ramona since she has acted an asshole with regards to the other HWs endeavors (Jill and Kodak come to mind) but Sonja has been nothing but supportive of all of these mean broads' projects.  Sometimes being supportive is a smile and a few encouraging words, not launching questions like you're investigating a murder.

[breezy424]

That is not what Heather asked.  She asked who they would hang by as in designers.  Why would a buyer buy something not knowing where it goes?  The buyer from Macy's most likely is an expert in buying women's clothes and probably doesn't buy say juniors or infants or men's wear. What if Sonja said-auto parts?  Would her line be sent to the auto parts department.  I get that big labels pay to have huge sections set aside in department stores that feature just their brand.  I would think a buyer or department manager if they received 15 Sonja evening gowns would probably put them in the formal wear department not the bathing suit department.  Heather had seen Sonja's line as in a red silk dress and thought it was something KMart wanted so I don't think Heather should be wondering who the demographic is-she is either stupid or snide.

 

I look at it this way Bethenny in her blog thought it the best scene of the season was the season with Heather and the others  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/bethenny-frankel/bethenny-i-was-proud-of-Sonja  Bethenny doesn't get laughing at someone else's expense is wrong.  That hurt Sonja's feelings and did nothing to boost her confidence going into her fashion show.  I would expect more from Bethenny as she claims to be a big supporter of Sonja's and making fun of her just isn't supportive.  Heather knows it and feels it when it is directed at her.  Just like screaming in someone's face to STFU-veiled s helping Sonja it isn't supportive or even polite.

Heather asked who do you envision yourself hanging with....  I saw it as a question to understand what this brand is about since all she had seen is the one outfit from the magazine party.  I don't understand why such a big deal is being made out of this.  If anything, the responses from Sonja and her people are much more discussion worthy.  Their responses came across as not knowing what they were doing and there was no clear vision. 

 

As for Beth's blog, when did Sonja say that her feelings were hurt?  I guess I missed that.

[zoeysmom]

Heather asked who do you envision yourself hanging with....  I saw it as a question to understand what this brand is about since all she had seen is the one outfit from the magazine party.  I don't understand why such a big deal is being made out of this.  If anything, the responses from Sonja and her people are much more discussion worthy.  Their responses came across as not knowing what they were doing and there was no clear vision. 

 

As for Beth's blog, when did Sonja say that her feelings were hurt?  I guess I missed that.

The point is lost. . . if you are supporting someone you support them. You don't claim to support them, you don't say things to them in front of the models, you don't start prying around on camera. You don't go into a meeting and start asking questions of their staff.  The discussion from the other people. . . it was circuitous because they didn't know who was buying, they didn't have any presales-why pin them down on camera-will that help Sonja?  Of course not.  You don't say you don't have buying commitments publicly as it hurts your brand.  Although Bethenny thought their responses hysterical it is not what you do to support a friend.  More importantly you don't ask someone what their strategy is, who their clients are unless you know up front they have some big names or it is a way amp up interest.  Everyone in the room knows that is a marketing strategy.  I am holding out high hopes for Heather that she doesn't make Sonja fashion show about her  and her frustration with the CEO-that is not supporting a friend.

 

Sonja has mentioned it all season.  I guess you missed that.  She doesn't like the other women talking negatively about her.  A foreign concept to most of this crowd. I don't know why Bethenny would mention how Sonja feels in her blog.  Lost on me.  Sonja even went so far last night on WWHL to decline saying what hurt her as she wanted to stay focused on the positive.  There are those on the show who want to support what the others are going through and then there are those who want to make the storyline about belittling another's experience.

[stinkogingko]

I think that she nor her team really wanted to discuss any of that on the show.  A long discussion on branding makes for some boring television.  This is the same woman that they had an "intervention" with and act like she is two seconds away from being a crack whore.  So why are they expecting her to answer 50-11 questions on demographics unless they planned on embarrassing her?  I was just pointing out that, no, not all designers know where and how a buyer plans to merchandize their pieces.  I've seen designers think their clothes are "cutting edge" and are shocked to find out that the buyer plans on selling the clothes to "mature" women.  If they wanted to offer constructive criticism, why couldn't they do that off camera?  Alls I know is that Bethenny would have eviscerated somebody if any of the HWs had asked her pointed questions about Skinny Girl when she was launching it.  "What makes your recipe different than all of the other 'skinny' ones that bartenders make?"  "How are you going to mass produce this without it tasting like chemical sludge?"  I don't have amnesia so I remember all of the myriad business ventures B had even before RHoNY that straight up failed because she threw everything against the wall hoping something would stick.  She's not some branding and marketing genius.  I wouldn't care if they did this to Ramona since she has acted an asshole with regards to the other HWs endeavors (Jill and Kodak come to mind) but Sonja has been nothing but supportive of all of these mean broads' projects.  Sometimes being supportive is a smile and a few encouraging words, not launching questions like you're investigating a murder.

I bet Bethenny would have had answers for most of those pointed questions. I wouldn't be surprised if Heather, in her earliest days with YT, could differentiate her product from other shapewear. Usually an entrepreneur has to answer those questions yo get investors and to get shelf or floor space. I suppose the exception is when a true celebrity, eg Taylor Swift, is putting her name on a product. Sonja's not in that category, I don't think, and for her product to succeed she needs a better grasp of what she's selling to whom.

Perhaps it would be kinder for a friend o just give a supportive smile, but Heather and Bethenny weren't there just as supportive friends but as successful business people. And if Sonja isn't likely to succeed if she can't answer those hard questions, it's not cruel to ask them.

[LotusFlower]

Heather asked who do you envision yourself hanging with....  I saw it as a question to understand what this brand is about since all she had seen is the one outfit from the magazine party.  I don't understand why such a big deal is being made out of this.  If anything, the responses from Sonja and her people are much more discussion worthy.  Their responses came across as not knowing what they were doing and there was no clear vision. 

Exactly. And as a few here have pointed out, it's an industry term and a standard question. As you said, Sonja and her team's responses and apparent incompetence are what really stood out.

In the end, though, it's all a moot point. Sonja isn't a designer, or even a celebrity designer like Jaclyn Smith or Jessica Simpson. Her clothes were never going to "sit" anywhere in any department store, and they never will. She's a HW who has fantasies in her head, but has no idea how to execute the ideas. Contrast that with Kristen (and I'm sure the editing monkeys were doing exactly that). No ego, no delusions of grandeur - she thought small, and brought her dream to fruition. Her nail polish line is not just in her head, or on her nails, but in retail stores. Good for her.

[sistermagpie]

The discussion from the other people. . . it was circuitous because they didn't know who was buying, they didn't have any presales-why pin them down on camera-will that help Sonja?  Of course not.

 

 

I think it actually would have helped Sonja if she'd answered them, because the question had nothing to do with who was buying or presales, it was a chance to tell people about her product. That's a free ad where you get to excite people about this product you're supposed to be excited to sell. What Sonja and her team did instead was basically announce that there was nothing there. It's not pinning someone down to ask somebody what they're selling.

 

I would also disagree that they avoided any tedious branding discussion. Rather than give a simple answer that could have made the clothing line seem real and appealing they avoided the question with non-answers that took longer.  People could have been imagining a sophisticated clothing line and instead they were trying to imagine clothing that was somehow different from any other actual clothing they had ever seen. I don't get why she specifically invited the two branding/clothing people if she just needed people to be supportive. They both seemed to think they were there to give professional advice and opinions.

[breezy424]

The point is lost. . . if you are supporting someone you support them. You don't claim to support them, you don't say things to them in front of the models, you don't start prying around on camera. You don't go into a meeting and start asking questions of their staff.  The discussion from the other people. . . it was circuitous because they didn't know who was buying, they didn't have any presales-why pin them down on camera-will that help Sonja?  Of course not.  You don't say you don't have buying commitments publicly as it hurts your brand.  Although Bethenny thought their responses hysterical it is not what you do to support a friend.  More importantly you don't ask someone what their strategy is, who their clients are unless you know up front they have some big names or it is a way amp up interest.  Everyone in the room knows that is a marketing strategy.  I am holding out high hopes for Heather that she doesn't make Sonja fashion show about her  and her frustration with the CEO-that is not supporting a friend.

 

Sonja has mentioned it all season.  I guess you missed that.  She doesn't like the other women talking negatively about her.  A foreign concept to most of this crowd. I don't know why Bethenny would mention how Sonja feels in her blog.  Lost on me.  Sonja even went so far last night on WWHL to decline saying what hurt her as she wanted to stay focused on the positive.  There are those on the show who want to support what the others are going through and then there are those who want to make the storyline about belittling another's experience.

I don't think that either Beth or Heather were trying to pin Sonja or her people as to sales.  They were asking about 'vision'.  Where do you see the brand? 

 

Were Beth and Heather asked to be there to support Sonja or were they there to help?  I think both thought the premise was to help.  So, I don't think their role was to be cheerleaders.  Did they ask who they have sold product to?  I don't think so.  Again, it was about vision.

 

The way you posted regarding Sonja's feelings being hurt, it came across to me that you were specifically referring to the meeting with her, Beth, Heather and Sonja's team.

[Freckledbruh]

I bet Bethenny would have had answers for most of those pointed questions. I wouldn't be surprised if Heather, in her earliest days with YT, could differentiate her product from other shapewear. Usually an entrepreneur has to answer those questions yo get investors and to get shelf or floor space. I suppose the exception is when a true celebrity, eg Taylor Swift, is putting her name on a product. Sonja's not in that category, I don't think, and for her product to succeed she needs a better grasp of what she's selling to whom.

Perhaps it would be kinder for a friend o just give a supportive smile, but Heather and Bethenny weren't there just as supportive friends but as successful business people. And if Sonja isn't likely to succeed if she can't answer those hard questions, it's not cruel to ask them.

Well, I definitely know B wouldn't have been able to answer the mass production question because she had zero experience in that and still didn't when her partner started doing it.  

Did Sonja hire them both as consultants?  I thought she invited them to the meeting to give their opinions on the clothes which weren't there so then asked them to help pick models.  That sounds like a friendly invitation to friends and coworkers.  Neither Heather nor Bethenny are fronting any money on this or have any vested interest so why lay into everybody like their retirement accounts are on the line?

[LotusFlower]

Did Sonja hire them both as consultants?  I thought she invited them to the meeting to give their opinions on the clothes which weren't there so then asked them to help pick models.  That sounds like a friendly invitation to friends and coworkers.  Neither Heather nor Bethenny are fronting any money on this or have any vested interest so why lay into everybody like their retirement accounts are on the line?

Then why'd she pick these two? Why didn't she ask her bestie, Ramona, or LuAnn, her longtime friend and likely Gstaad demographic, or her swami? She asked Heather and Bethenny because of their expertise and experience, and they came willing to help. If the amateurs or con artists in the room felt affronted or unsupported, that's on them.

[Freckledbruh]

Then why'd she pick these two? Why didn't she ask her bestie, Ramona, or LuAnn, her longtime friend and likely Gstaad demographic, or her swami? She asked Heather and Bethenny because of their expertise and experience, and they came willing to help. If the amateurs or con artists in the room felt affronted or unsupported, that's on them.

I think she asked them so that she could get some camera time.  Why do these people go on vacations together when it is clear that they can't stand some of their coworkers?  Camera time.  Why did B and Heather accept (especially since Heather said she would never set foot in Sonja's home again)?  Camera time.  I think it wouldn't have hurt for them to just be nice but if being an asshole is so important to them then I guess that's on them.

[Sampson]

I guess I can't understand why Heather broke out into a sweat.  It seemed to me the question would only be a lose/lose situation.  If the guy said Halston Heritage, she and Bethenny would be making cracks abut how she was comparing herself to Halston.  If he said Calvin Klein there would be reasons why it didn't work. If the said shit on the bottom of my shoes department, they would say she was overpriced for the shit department.  Bottom line is this collection was destined for on-line only.  Safest thing is to answer the way he did. Heather's brand goes in the shapewear, exercise or jean department.  Bethenny's swill goes in the pre-made cocktail department, or vodka or wine.  There was no reason for the question to begin with Heather. . . hates Sonja and just delights in one upping her.  More power to her.  Heather sits so much higher when she puts others down.  I don't know why Sonja invites her except Heather whined like a big baby when Bethenny was selected over her.

 

Sonja or her CEO replied that everyone has been asking them that question. If so, then it seems a logical way (in that biz) to proceed while trying to help Sonja make decisions regarding her line. I saw plenty of reason to ask the question and plenty of reason to be suspect of the answer (if you can call it that) given.

[zoeysmom]

Then why'd she pick these two? Why didn't she ask her bestie, Ramona, or LuAnn, her longtime friend and likely Gstaad demographic, or her swami? She asked Heather and Bethenny because of their expertise and experience, and they came willing to help. If the amateurs or con artists in the room felt affronted or unsupported, that's on them.

 

 

I don't think that either Beth or Heather were trying to pin Sonja or her people as to sales.  They were asking about 'vision'.  Where do you see the brand? 

 

Were Beth and Heather asked to be there to support Sonja or were they there to help?  I think both thought the premise was to help.  So, I don't think their role was to be cheerleaders.  Did they ask who they have sold product to?  I don't think so.  Again, it was about vision.

 

The way you posted regarding Sonja's feelings being hurt, it came across to me that you were specifically referring to the meeting with her, Beth, Heather and Sonja's team.

Both Bethenny and Heather have asked who her clients are-Heather even asked if it was KMart.  Bethenny thinks it is a running joke they want to keep the list confidential.  So they ask and seem to want to know.  Bethenny commented about the CEOs group having unheard of retail plans.

 

I think it has become habit with some of the women to put Sonja down and they can't seem to stop.  It seems to me the biggest offender in T&C was Heather who could not stop talking about Sonja-I believe she paid $300.00, because she just could not stop.

 

I look at it this way-if my representative was put on the spot I would not want my so called supportive friends to run with it and make a bit out of it.  I guess I just don't allow people in my life for very long that publicly ridicule me, my brand or my staff.  I don't consider them friends.

[LotusFlower]

I think she asked them so that she could get some camera time.  Why do these people go on vacations together when it is clear that they can't stand some of their coworkers?  Camera time.  Why did B and Heather accept (especially since Heather said she would never set foot in Sonja's home again)?  Camera time.  I think it wouldn't have hurt for them to just be nice but if being an asshole is so important to them then I guess that's on them.

Yes, of course Sonja wanted camera time for herself and for her faux fashion line. But of all the HW's - why did she invite Bethenny and Heather instead of Ramona? That was my question. And of course the answer is obvious - because of their expertise. Only she didn't want their expertise....

[breezy424]

I think she asked them so that she could get some camera time.  Why do these people go on vacations together when it is clear that they can't stand some of their coworkers?  Camera time.  Why did B and Heather accept (especially since Heather said she would never set foot in Sonja's home again)?  Camera time.  I think it wouldn't have hurt for them to just be nice but if being an asshole is so important to them then I guess that's on them.

So they should have just sat there and said nothing -  would that have gotten Sonja camera time?  What did they do that was soooo  un-nice? 

 

Heather and Sonja made amends so I don't understand why the Heather said she wouldn't set food in Sonja's home.  Which maybe she never will.  So if Sonja's rented conference room is her 'home' then what was the house in Turks?  They moved on.

[Freckledbruh]

Yes, of course Sonja wanted camera time for herself and for her faux fashion line. But of all the HW's - why did she invite Bethenny and Heather instead of Ramona? That was my question. And of course the answer is obvious - because of their expertise. Only she didn't want their expertise....

But hasn't Sonja already had a crap ton of footage with Ramona?  Maybe she did invite them because of their business "status" but that doesn't mean that she invited them to lay into her.  Like I said, it doesn't hurt to be nice but if you want to act like an asshole...

 

So they should have just sat there and said nothing -  would that have gotten Sonja camera time?  What did they do that was soooo  un-nice?

They could have asked simple, customer oriented questions like "What's the color palette?"  "Is there a nice variety of separates?"  These women aren't stupid.  They know how to ask some innocuous questions.  Un-nice, to me, is pushing for answers to questions that people clearly are not comfortable answering on camera.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Freckledbruh

[kassa]

I guess New York isn't all that big, LOL!!  Mario doesn't seem to have wandered too far out of his own playground!!   ;-)

 

 

What, like he’d go to BROOKLYN ?

 

Sonja's "modeling" picture holding the Chanel box seemed particularly fake – put me in mind of the “we’re not porn stars any more” ladies on SNL hawking designer stuff in hopes of landing an endorsement.

 

The intercuts between Ramona at lunch and Ramona’s talking heads were amusing – her eyes were large at lunch, then plastic surgeri-ed half shut in the talking heads.  Then back to large again, then shut.  Then large...

Edited August 5, 2015 by kassa

[breezy424]

Both Bethenny and Heather have asked who her clients are-Heather even asked if it was KMart.  Bethenny thinks it is a running joke they want to keep the list confidential.  So they ask and seem to want to know.  Bethenny commented about the CEOs group having unheard of retail plans.

 

I think it has become habit with some of the women to put Sonja down and they can't seem to stop.  It seems to me the biggest offender in T&C was Heather who could not stop talking about Sonja-I believe she paid $300.00, because she just could not stop.

 

I look at it this way-if my representative was put on the spot I would not want my so called supportive friends to run with it and make a bit out of it.  I guess I just don't allow people in my life for very long that publicly ridicule me, my brand or my staff.  I don't consider them friends.

Gosh, I thought this was about the meeting on this week's episode and what happened during that scene. 

 

Who is Sonja's representative?  The question Heather asked at the meeting was to the CEO of the company.  What staff?  What's Sonja's title?  And if asking this person how do you envision the line is putting him on the spot then how do you explain Sonja responding that we get asked that all the time.  The onus is on the company Sonja sold her name to. 

[HunterHunted]

Sonja or her CEO replied that everyone has been asking them that question. If so, then it seems a logical way (in that biz) to proceed while trying to help Sonja make decisions regarding her line. I saw plenty of reason to ask the question and plenty of reason to be suspect of the answer (if you can call it that) given.

I wonder if the people who have been asking them that question are buyers who didn't come to the show.

[LotusFlower]

Maybe she did invite them because of their business "status" but that doesn't mean that she invited them to lay into her.  Like I said, it doesn't hurt to be nice but if you want to act like an asshole...

They didn't lay into her. She invited them to see the clothes, and yet the clothes didn't make it. They offered advice re: the models, and tried to help Sonja and her team of amateur buffoons with pertinent fashion-related questions. Sonja was truly an Empress wearing no clothes, and they were good enough "friends" to tell her so.

[Freckledbruh]

They didn't lay into her. She invited them to see the clothes, and yet the clothes didn't make it. They offered advice re: the models, and tried to help Sonja and her team of amateur buffoons with pertinent fashion-related questions. Sonja was truly an Empress wearing no clothes, and they were good enough "friends" to tell her so.

That's your opinion and mine is different.

[LotusFlower]

That's your opinion and mine is different.

You don't say!

[Freckledbruh]

You don't say!

I posted it so I do say!

[ryebread]

I am holding out high hopes for Heather that she doesn't make Sonja fashion show about her  and her frustration with the CEO-that is not supporting a friend.

 

I'm not.  Heather is not about supporting women.  Her underwear might be, but imo, she is not.  Bethenny I'll hold out some hope for because I think she does have some genuine concern for Sonja.  Yeah, Sonja left poor Heather in the pouring rain and the toaster oven thing was a debacle, so Sonja deserves some shade. That's why I'm calling a spade a spade and saying that what Heather did at that meeting was not to support.  Not even close. But no big deal.  That's what these women do to each other.  Sonja was a ninny for inviting them, they were bigger ninnies for accepting because they're suppose to be smart enough to know it was going to be a waste of time. Enough blame to go around. 

[Rahul]

 Sonja's "modeling" picture holding the Chanel box seemed particularly fake – put me in mind of the “we’re not porn stars any more” ladies on SNL hawking designer stuff in hopes of landing an endorsement.

What a deft analogy! Especially given Sonja's rumored vocation during her stint in the Middle East.

[breezy424]

Yikes,  Heather asks a simple question - who do you envision yourself hanging with in the department stores.  And that is somehow putting the CEO of the company on spot and laying into him.  She had a followup question to the answers given.  What brands do you see yourself with.  That was it.  I think I was watching a different show.

[HunterHunted]

They didn't lay into her. She invited them to see the clothes, and yet the clothes didn't make it. They offered advice re: the models, and tried to help Sonja and her team of amateur buffoons with pertinent fashion-related questions. Sonja was truly an Empress wearing no clothes, and they were good enough "friends" to tell her so.

And they needed to know what the aesthetic of the Sonja Morgan line to pick the models. She couldn't show them the clothes. She didn't show them the sketches. Without articulating the aesthetics of the line, Heather and Bethenny could have chosen models who were too punk, rock n roll, or androgynous for the line. To me, it's not an arbitrary bitchy question intended to embarrass Sonja. It's a question to help Heather and Bethenny be useful. What if a model walked in there who looked like Tilda Swinton or Grace Jones or Kate Moss during her heroin chic days? All striking women, but would any of them look good in Sonja's clothes. Do they look like her customer?

[LotusFlower]

So I just read on another site re: Sonja's website that the clothes are only made after an order is placed, and customers are then told to wait 4-6 weeks for delivery, only it's been two months, and none of the orders are getting fulfilled. Not sure how reliable this is, but it makes sense. I could never understand how things could be on "pre-order" for so long, and then when they're finally available, it still takes weeks/months to deliver. This explains it. One of Sonja's interns is probably the poor soul sitting in a back room trying to thread a needle.

[trimthatfat]

 Getting a huge runaround to such a simple question would probably make a lot of business people sweat even if it's not their line.

When Sonja was asked last night on WWHL where/when the line could be purchased in stores, she couldn't even answer that directly. She mentioned Dubai as a place one would be able to purchase it. Like...how does that answer the question? She could have just said they are working with buyers right now and she will update fans as soon as the line launches in stores. The inability of Sonja and her team to answer basic questions is so odd. If they don't have any buyers, that's okay. They would hardly be the first fashion line to launch online and stay online until a buyer expressed interest.

Edited August 5, 2015 by trimthatfat

[Freckledbruh]

And they needed to know what the aesthetic of the Sonja Morgan line to pick the models. She couldn't show them the clothes. She didn't show them the sketches. Without articulating the aesthetics of the line, Heather and Bethenny could have chosen models who were too punk, rock n roll, or androgynous for the line. To me, it's not an arbitrary bitchy question intended to embarrass Sonja. It's a question to help Heather and Bethenny be useful. What if a model walked in there who looked like Tilda Swinton or Grace Jones or Kate Moss during her heroin chic days? All striking women, but would any of them look good in Sonja's clothes. Do they look like her customer?

Rarely do the models ever resemble the customer.  Honestly, it isn't rocket science to just follow the other person's lead.  Once they got there expecting to see clothes which never showed up, they should have just been like, "Hmmm, OK, let's just roll with whatever this crazy woman has planned" and be done with it.  Maybe wires got crossed and H & B thought they were showing up to a peace summit while Sonja thought it was going to be a quick "Ooooh.  Aaaah.  That's nice" scene.  It's not like she hasn't done this for the other HWs.

 

Sonja's website that the clothes are only made after an order is placed

So her clothing is actually "couture"?  I just assumed that she (or rather the company who is paying her) was mass producing this stuff.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Freckledbruh

[slitz]

 

I would--but I maxed out the Visa on Alexis Couture. Sigh, tis a struggle to remain a fashionista....

And I'm still in debt after filling my closet with She by Sheree. Sorry, everyone!

 

Don't remind me...I'm still paying off my cards for all my Gretchen Christine Beaute products and purses!  ;)

[zoeysmom]

Gosh, I thought this was about the meeting on this week's episode and what happened during that scene. 

 

Who is Sonja's representative?  The question Heather asked at the meeting was to the CEO of the company.  What staff?  What's Sonja's title?  And if asking this person how do you envision the line is putting him on the spot then how do you explain Sonja responding that we get asked that all the time.  The onus is on the company Sonja sold her name to. 

The entire group of buffoons were introduced as the representatives in various forms from CEO to marketing director of Sonja's company.  Sonja would be either the Chairman of the Board or owner depending on how the company is structured.  Bethenny already got her jabs in on all Sonja's staff.  Am I the only one that thinks that the marketing plan pretty much revolved around Sonja premiering her line on Bravo.  I think that is why the weren't forthcoming.  To me, if the fashion experts, Heather and Bethenny could not define Sonja's line after she said heritage and traditional and the staffer added, not on trend, then they didn't need to know much more.

 

It is about the put downs and the laughing at someone, I really don't understand why that is such a hard concept.  I guess people can feel they are entitled to behave that way towards someone.  Same people who call others out on their behavior.

 

Here is another one:  How many times did Sonja use the words private plane last night?  (a)20 (b) 10 © 1 (d) lost count.  Well if you follow Bethenny's twitter-if she had a dollar for every time Sonja used those words she could buy a private plane.  That is a put down.  This is from the woman who has her product in virtually every scene.  Bethenny has made a running bit of claiming Sonja repeats herself constantly, Gstaad, up do, smoky eye and it is Bethenny that repeats ad nauseum for the punchline. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Hey look, if the whole reason behind that dopey/ridiculous "fashion show" & that dopey/ridiculous "argument" between B & Moaner was to make Moaner squirm, well that's just fine & dandy with me.  They coulda called this ep, "Watch Moaner Squirm" & I'd be in.  Yup, no more needed to be said.  Job well done on that little diddy, Satan Andy & Bethenny.

 

Now while I'm not in the fashion industry, I've been to many shows during Fashion Week.  But even someone who hasn't been to one & has just seen maybe one on a Housewives show or on Sex in the City would know the basics.  Er, so how come Sonja didn't?  No Sonja, people in the audience definitely do not take a break to get up & get a drink.  Yikes, what a disorganized mess!  And it all goes back to how she has those teenage interns all around her.  Sheesh, even if she hired young kids right outta FIT for pennies it would have been infinitely more organized.  But no, she just can't hire anyone.  Why?  Is she really that broke?

 

Ah, but everything related to her "business" gives me a giggle.  Asking any of those "executives" related to her "business" is pointless.  Their answers to pretty much any legitimate question concerning their "business" certainly gives us an education in how to bullshit & deflect & say nothing while seeming to say something, eh?

 

Oh yeah, Heather did have such a superior attitude in that meeting in the rented conference room.  Now, don't get me wrong, I think her many years of experience in the fashion industry gives her the right (in some sense) to be. But there's such a meanness to it.  It does seem she would have taken great satisfaction in proving this "business" to be a total fraud & out these "execs" as all being phonies.  Well, I keep putting Sonja's "business" & its "executives" in quotes because it does seem to me to be nothing other than phony-baloney nonsense & these people running this thing seem to do nothing other than give bullshit answers when asked simple, sensible questions when asked about this "business". 

 

Hmmmm, OK then, bust my buttons, this "business" seems to be off & running.  Or is it?  And for how long?  I'm very, very suspect.  And I'm sure Heather is too.  So Heather & I agree on this.  Cuz I, like Heather, am vastly experienced & knowledgeable about business.  And as Heather is an extremely sensible gal, I am too (er, sensible, that is).  But where Heather & I separate is, I am not invested in outing Sonja's "business" as being a fraud or outing these "executives" as being phonies & taking great glee in seeing Sonja fail.  Heather sure as shit seems to be tho.  Don't know why, but she definitely does.

 

As far as the Sonja clothes?  They're OK.  Nothing that I haven't seen before on Project Runway -- or in some boring dull collection from Michael Kors.  The prices, for what this stuff is, are eye-popping.  Let's see if anyone actually buys any of it.  Me doubts it.  For anything at this price level to be sized in S/M/L is absolutely ridiculous.  And the jewelry, altho mostly looked very nice, made me also wonder who the heck would buy these baubles at this price level when you can barely see what anything looks like on the site.  It all looks like a recipe for quick failure to me, but let's see what happens, I guess, right?

 

Btw, the Sonja jumpsuit should be called the boobs-falling-out jumpsuit.  Now, I'm not exactly sure who would want to wear a jumpsuit where your boobs are sure to fall out & where exactly you'd wear such a thing, but it is certainly unique.  Um, is there a market for a boobs-are-sure-to-fall-out jumpsuit.  Idk.  Anyone?

Edited August 5, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[zoeysmom]

Yikes,  Heather asks a simple question - who do you envision yourself hanging with in the department stores.  And that is somehow putting the CEO of the company on spot and laying into him.  She had a followup question to the answers given.  What brands do you see yourself with.  That was it.  I think I was watching a different show.

It was the other stuff- the sweating the feigned exasperation, Bethenny chipping in, the totality of the circumstances.  I think you might be because Bethenny sure has a different version that you do-it was her favorite scene of the series.  It is the ridicule in the talking heads, the blogs that exacerbate the situation.     

[LotusFlower]

When Sonja was asked last night on WWHL where/when the line could be purchased in stores, she couldn't even answer that directly. She mentioned Dubai as a place one would be able to purchase it. Like...how does that answer the question? She could have just said they are working with buyers right now and she will update fans as soon as the line launches in stores. The inability of Sonja and her team to answer basic questions is so odd. If they don't have any buyers, that's okay. They would hardly be the first fashion line to launch online and stay online until a buyer expressed interest.

I agree that Sonja is crazy and her team's inability to answer basic questions is a red flag, but I think more than anything, they're embarrassed. Sonja's always had delusions of grandeur. After smoky eye, updo and Gstaad comes Bergdorf's and Neiman Marcus, not....available online. Hence the hemming and hawing and Dubai and my daughter and the spin and deflection whenever she's asked a simple question about retail.

[Diane Mars]

Yes, of course Sonja wanted camera time for herself and for her faux fashion line. But of all the HW's - why did she invite Bethenny and Heather instead of Ramona? That was my question. And of course the answer is obvious - because of their expertise. Only she didn't want their expertise....

Or, maybe, to get their approbation and use it as a huge validation ? ^_^

 

(But yes, I agree !)

[ryebread]

 Un-nice, to me, is pushing for answers to questions that people clearly are not comfortable answering on camera.

 

Un-nice to me is Heather in her TH during the fashion show about not seeing some of the buyers she would have expected.  She thought she'd see buyers who recognized her and be all like, 'Heather....Hey."  Big, jack-o-lantern grin and manhand wave.

 

I surprise myself sometimes with how much I dislike her.

 

I did appreciate that they all were complimentary towards Sonja's clothes at the end but I'm just jaded enough to know that all of them weren't completely sincere. 

[zoeysmom]

Here is what Glamour had to say about Sonja's line:   http://www.glamour.com/fashion/blogs/dressed/2015/06/sonja-morgan-clothing-line-pictures

[LotusFlower]

Or, maybe, to get their approbation and use it as a huge validation ? ^_^

 

(But yes, I agree !)

Yes, of course - validation! A needy, insecure person like Sonja needs that. Good point. Notice how much Sonja was reveling in the success of her party, er, I mean fashion show. She even said on WWHL last night that her favorite part was when Carole told her she enjoyed the show as much as those at Lincoln Center. Sonja beamed. Poor Sonja.

[Diane Mars]

... So her clothing is actually "couture"?  I just assumed that she (or rather the company who is paying her) was mass producing this stuff.

So www.aliexpress.com is "couture" too ^_^ 

[atir]

Lotus, were you kidding about some toaster ovens actually having been manufactured?