The Taylor Swift Topic: Teen Country Sensation to World-Dominating Pop Star

[funkopop]

Yes I know about Back To December and it is about Taylor Lautner. Yes, when I heard about it being an apology I was convinced that Lautner was a saint because if Taylor was actually willing to not play the victim in a situation with a guy, he had to be pretty damn perfect. The belief is that she screwed him over for her brief fling with John Mayer that not surprisingly did not end well. 

 

I really enjoyed that song and Taylor Lautner does seem like a really sweet guy.

[CaughtOnTape]

See now, Harry Styles is routinely described by everyone who is around him as a fantastically self aware, nice guy.  She was smart not to write a song slamming him or claiming he did her wrong.  I think had she done it, it might have been her undoing.  

 

Style very obviously is proof that she's still got a hard on for that kid.

 

Taylor is a victim of believing in her own hype.  She makes public comments about Fey and Poehler and thinks everyone will back her up because she's Taylor Swift and she's sweet and innocent.  And when they didn't, she was like "Whoa."

And now it's happened with Nicki Minaj.  No one probably would have even picked up on what Nicki said had Taylor not responded.  It made her look petty and stupid.

 

I blame Kanye West for all of this.  That douchebag interrupts her speech years ago and starts the whole "POOR TAYLOR!" movement and now we get this.

[lovemytvshows]

I don't agree that Taylor Swift is relating to young teenage girls unless young teenage girls are supposed to be constantly bitching and moaning about how so and so was mean to them.

 

Haven't really thought about it this way but maybe she thinks that by doing that (bitching/moaning bout people being mean) is in some twisted way being empowering and standing up for yourself?

 

Re: Swift's apology

I thought I was being called out.

 

Of course you thought she was calling you out. It's always you. You, you, you...GAH! This is getting tiresome...

 

truthaboutluv I loved everything you wrote because you covered all the points that I think most of us pin down when it comes to Taylor Swift.

[AstaCharles]

Yes I know about Back To December and it is about Taylor Lautner.

I didn't know they dated. Did the media tease them about being a couple. ..of Taylors, call them TnT, etc?

[truthaboutluv]

It was like half a minute which is like most of her relationships but this was even shorter than normal so most don't know about it. What's kind of creepy is that Taylor was spotted for months with Selena Gomez and it looked like they were a thing. Then suddenly there was a picture or two of him popping up with Taylor. And Taylor and Selena are supposedly besties. But again it was over before it even really began.

[Janet Snakehole]

"Haven't really thought about it this way but maybe she thinks that by doing that (bitching/moaning bout people being mean) is in some twisted way being empowering and standing up for yourself?"

That is exactly what she thinks. Her feminist theory is based around the whole hell having a special place for women who don't support each other, but hasn't quite gotten to the point where she looks outside of herself yet.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Janet Snakehole

[UYI]

I didn't know they dated. Did the media tease them about being a couple. ..of Taylors, call them TnT, etc?

 

They were called Taylor Squared. And yes, I'm a few years too old to know this (okay, I'm 26, which is her age, but still).

 

They actually met on the set of the movie Valentine's Day, where they played each other's love interests. Taylor told a story on Ellen once how it got to the point where, to tell them apart on set, she suggested he be called Taylor and she be called Swifty, so that's what they did. I wonder if that's how her fans started calling themselves Swifties. 

 

Of course you thought she was calling you out. It's always you. You, you, you...GAH! This is getting tiresome...

 

 

 

That stuck out to me, too. And even if she HAD been directly called out, that doesn't mean she had to respond. 

Edited July 24, 2015 by UYI

[UYI]

That is exactly what she thinks. Her feminist theory is based around the whole hell having a special place for women who don't support each other, but hasn't quite gotten to the point where she looks outside of herself yet.

 

She has said that the song that made her feel like she could write about anything she wanted regarding her feelings is "You're So Vain" by Carly Simon. Which, admittedly, is an amazing song, a classic, but Carly's entire career isn't made up of songs like that. And unlike Taylor, she didn't give out the sort of clues that made it easy to figure out! (That said, I totally believe it's about Warren Beatty.)

 

Hell, Carly, I think, made at least one or two whole albums about how much she loved James Taylor right after they got married. She has said he won't speak to her anymore, though. (They divorced decades ago.)

 

Interestingly enough, Taylor has performed with both of them in concert. She was, in fact, named in part after James Taylor. And when she performed with Carly, it was, yes, "You're So Vain" that they performed. And she is now one of the only people on earth who knows for certain who Carly was singing about. She made a point once in an article in saying that she hadn't even asked.

 

 

BTW, this is mean, but it appears that the role of Carly is being played by Steven Tyler in this clip. :P

 

Edited July 24, 2015 by UYI

[lovemytvshows]

It's still rippling...http://www.buzzfeed.com/kelleydunlap/camilla-belle-calls-out-taylor-swift-for-better-than-revenge#.puMQ5nZX1d

[UYI]

I'm not gonna lie...I loved that. I have no idea if Joe was actually cheating on Taylor with Camilla when he broke up with her, but I still loved that.

 

She and Joe are apparently friends now, though, and even went on a double date with Gigi Hadid and Calvin Harris. She's still friends with Nick, too, and he even performed at one of her concerts with her recently.

 

This whole thing makes me want to post this Flashback Friday video, though:

 

 

It's interesting to point out that she has addressed her problem with writing BTR:

 

 

I was 18 when I wrote that. That’s the age you are when you think someone can actually take your boyfriend. Then you grow up and realize no one can take someone from you if they don’t want to leave.

 

I have to admit--I actually like that song, even while fully acknowledging its problems. *hangs head in shame*

 

And in a way, Camilla's lucky. Unlike "Bad Blood", "Better Than Revenge" was never released as a single, so not as many people know about it! 

 

ETA: Oh, and then there was the Doll Incident, too:

 

 

And in case you're curious, here's BTR:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzkUYJ-TDeo

Edited July 24, 2015 by UYI

[CaughtOnTape]

I dunno if I'd use the word "lucky". 

She was slut shamed in the song and if that's what Taylor thinks is an apology for writing it then if I were Camilla, I'd tell her to get fucked too.  She absolved herself of any wrongdoing with the worst excuse out there.  "I was young and stupid"

 

And whenever someone Google's the song, the reason the song was written comes up.

Edited July 24, 2015 by CaughtOnTape

[Princess Sparkle]

 

Interestingly enough, Taylor has performed with both of them in concert. She was, in fact, named in part after James Taylor. And when she performed with Carly, it was, yes, "You're So Vain" that they performed. And she is now one of the only people on earth who knows for certain who Carly was singing about. She made a point once in an article in saying that she hadn't even asked.

 

 

Isn't the song Mean about when she sang You're So Vain with Carly Simon at some awards show, and critics called her out for being off-key?

 

ETA - Never mind, I just googled and it was when she sang with Stevie Nicks at the Grammys.  I got my awesome 70s singers mixed up.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Princess Sparkle

[DeLurker]

I'm too old to really have any interest in Taylor Swift or her contemporaries, but she is an unavoidable presence in the media.  Good for her if she has the savvy and skill to negotiate the entertainment world to her advantage.

 

I do wish that she would harness that celebrity and get behind a social goal like education or nutrition.  Like her or not, she could make a huge impact.

[UYI]

Isn't the song Mean about when she sang You're So Vain with Carly Simon at some awards show, and critics called her out for being off-key?

 

ETA - Never mind, I just googled and it was when she sang with Stevie Nicks at the Grammys.  I got my awesome 70s singers mixed up.

 

It's about how she sang "Rhiannon" at the Grammys with Stevie Nicks off-key. (I just saw that you edited that!)

 

And the thing is, "Mean" seems to have a good message in theory. It absolutely sounds like a song that could be used as an anthem for kids that have been bullied in school. But it's undercut almost immediately when you find out it's actually about this. (Scroll further down and you'll get to the stuff about Taylor.)

 

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2010/02/01/grammys/

I dunno if I'd use the word "lucky". 

She was slut shamed in the song and if that's what Taylor thinks is an apology for writing it then if I were Camilla, I'd tell her to get fucked too.  She absolved herself of any wrongdoing with the worst excuse out there.  "I was young and stupid"

 

And whenever someone Google's the song, the reason the song was written comes up.

 

I understand that. I just meant that, if it had been released as a single, it would have been even HARDER to escape.

 

I do find it interesting that she and Joe apparently have become friends again, though. I would think that song might make that very difficult, regardless of how his relationship with Camilla actually started. 

 

And I know that she was a legal adult by the time she recorded that song--she was only a minor when she did her first album--but I can't help but wonder if anyone on her team looked at this or any of her similar songs and thought, "This might not be the best idea..."

Edited July 24, 2015 by UYI

[funkopop]

I'm currently listening to Joy Williams new cd on Spotify (sorry Taylor) and I will forever be grateful to Taylor Swift because she introduced me to The Civil Wars music with her duet with them on Safe and Sound.  I was flipping the music station channels and caught the video and was transfixed.  I played that song over and over for a good while.  Was so sad to see that they disbanded shortly after though.  

Edited July 24, 2015 by funkopop

[Archery]

Seems to me that if people know so much about Taylor Swift's dating habits (and the dating habits of her former boyfriends and the girls they allegedly cheat on her with) that they can identify the in-song code referring to said boyfriends and said girls, it says more about those people's obsession with Swift than about Swift's personality or song writing.  As in, I'm not interested in her personal life, so her songs are just songs. 

 

And, another UO:  Good on her for making an actual apology, and not an "if anybody was offended" non-apology. 

[Quof]

Jesus, in her duets with both James and Carly, the audience singing along sounded better than Taylor. So thanks for ruining those songs for me, Swifty.

 

Also - does anyone else want to make her walk around with a dictionary on her head. Her posture makes me cringe.

[methodwriter85]

 

So I think sensing the tide was turning, she suddenly changed her tune and this latest album, she talked about the songs about her ex being nothing like the others. Suddenly the angry songs were gone and she's spinning about how this is the first time she's friends with an ex and how there's a wistfulness to the songs and how Harry heard all of them before the album came out, etc. Because she realized the bitter ex-girlfriend schtick was getting old for some so she changed gears.

 

Which again shows how damn good she's been at knowing just how much to evolve to keep herself "in", while not evolving so much that her older fans are alienated. It's really been amazing to watch how she's managed to keep relevant for almost an entire decade without the seeming air of desperation that hit other acts like XTina or Britney. (Both former teen acts who had some stumbling blocks on their way to transitioning into adult pop stars.)

 

 

You know, I've thought before about how it would have been nice to have someone like Taylor to listen to when I was in middle school/high school (in all, that was from 2000-2007, for the record), because the women who were big when I was growing up were women like Britney Spears, who weren't making music about relating to young teenage girls, and that's one thing the girls just below me in age have that I didn't: a young woman writing songs about what it's like to be an every day teenage girl

 

I'm a guy but from that same general neighborhood of middle school/high school. Wasn't it basically Avril Lavigne that had that slot?

 

Vanessa Carlton and Michelle Branch were honorable mentions, but Avril lasted way longer than either of them did.

Edited July 25, 2015 by methodwriter85

[lovemytvshows]

I do find it interesting that she and Joe apparently have become friends again, though.

 

I'm wondering if it's more him latching onto her i.e. I'm part of the Taylor Squad! since his music career hasn't really gone anywhere post-Jonas Brothers. 

 

 

 

I'm currently listening to Joy Williams new cd on Spotify (sorry Taylor) and I will forever be grateful to Taylor Swift because she introduced me to The Civil Wars music with her duet with them on Safe and Sound.

 

Ahhhh The Civil Wars...I don't think I'll ever fully get over their breakup (well, disbanding). I too was listening to Joy Williams' new album on Spotify, hoping to feast my ears on some new Civil Wars-esque tracks but alas her solo effort does sound quite dissimilar from The Civil Wars' sound that I have come to love. I'll just have to go back and listen to Barton Hollow and the second self-titled one.

 

As for Safe and Sound, I thought it was less of a duet and more of Taylor's voice being front and centre with Joy Williams doing some light harmonizing at the back and almost nothing of John Paul White. That said, it's a good song but would've liked it more if they could get the voice ratio balanced. And I think with the music video, it was all Taylor? I was expecting to see both Joy and John Paul but I don't think they made an appearance in the video at all.

Edited July 25, 2015 by lovemytvshows

[truthaboutluv]

I'm wondering if it's more him latching onto her i.e. I'm part of the Taylor Squad! since his music career hasn't really gone anywhere post-Jonas Brothers.

 

 

Bingo. Let's be honest, Taylor's the one controlling that "friendship", in that he's around in as much as she wants him around. Once she truly got over the situation and kind of really didn't care enough anymore to make angry songs about him, she was willing to be more forgiving. And as you noted, the Jonas Brothers 15 minutes ended almost as quickly as it started, so of course he has no problem palling around with the girl he once claimed lied about him and maligned his character (since he swore he didn't cheat with Camilla and he and Taylor were already over).

[UYI]

 

 

I'm a guy but from that same general neighborhood of middle school/high school. Wasn't it basically Avril Lavigne that had that slot?

 

Vanessa Carlton and Michelle Branch were honorable mentions, but Avril lasted way longer than either of them did.

 

OMG, I forgot all three of them! I LOVED them all.

 

Avril has long since declined, though. I can't even listen to "Girlfriend" to this day without breaking into a rash. And "Hello Kitty" scares me.

 

And I'll admit, the angsty teen in me loved Amy Lee and Evanescence.

 

I forgot to mention this before, but before "Better Than Revenge" came out, the Jonas Brothers had a song out called "Much Better"* which is supposedly about how "much better" Camilla was to Joe than Taylor (her song "Teardrops On My Guitar" is even name checked in the lyrics). So really, neither of them came off that well initially after they broke up.

 

*That also wound up being a lyric in BTR.

Edited July 25, 2015 by UYI

[truthaboutluv]

Yes Much Better, that Joe the coward, after writing it tried to deny it was about Taylor, even when it was very obvious. Like I didn't judge him for writing the song because my feeling was why should Taylor alone throw shade for guys in her songs. But at least own it. Instead as soon as the song was out and everyone started talking about how harsh it was and even criticizing him, he tried to claim the song was about their fans...sure.

At that point, the only song Taylor had written about the situation was Forever & Always which wasn't that harsh. Albeit she'd talked about it a lot and called out Joe pretty harshly. But that's what annoyed some even more about BTR because Taylor came hard at Camilla instead of Joe who deserved it.

[funkopop]

I'm wondering if it's more him latching onto her i.e. I'm part of the Taylor Squad! since his music career hasn't really gone anywhere post-Jonas Brothers. 

 

 

 

 

Ahhhh The Civil Wars...I don't think I'll ever fully get over their breakup (well, disbanding). I too was listening to Joy Williams' new album on Spotify, hoping to feast my ears on some new Civil Wars-esque tracks but alas her solo effort does sound quite dissimilar from The Civil Wars' sound that I have come to love. I'll just have to go back and listen to Barton Hollow and the second self-titled one.

 

As for Safe and Sound, I thought it was less of a duet and more of Taylor's voice being front and centre with Joy Williams doing some light harmonizing at the back and almost nothing of John Paul White. That said, it's a good song but would've liked it more if they could get the voice ratio balanced. And I think with the music video, it was all Taylor? I was expecting to see both Joy and John Paul but I don't think they made an appearance in the video at all.

 

I feel the same about Joy's new album it was nice and she sounds beautiful but without John Paul to break out the monotony of her harmonizing it got kind of boring.  They were in the video but it was Bad Blood cameo style so easy to miss if you weren't paying attention.

[lovemytvshows]

They were in the video but it was Bad Blood cameo style so easy to miss if you weren't paying attention.

 

Thanks for that, now I'll have to re-watch to try and catch a glimpse of them!

[UYI]

Okay seriously, at some point you have to look in the mirror and remember that you're 25, not in middle school. STOP IT.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/taylor-swift-takes-pop-katy-6147369

[truthaboutluv]

That reminds me of some comments I was reading online when she was dating that Kennedy kid who was 17 when they started dating. A few people were commenting on the fact that they couldn't imagine dating a 17 year old high school kid when they were already in their 20's and someone said, "well when you have the emotional maturity of a 17 year old, does it really matter?" As I said in another post, I think Taylor is a very savvy and shrewd artist, particularly when it comes to her professional career. But she really comes across at times as being stuck emotionally and mentally in high school. That being said, Katy Perry is even older, at 30, at she seems very immature herself so I'm team no one here. 

[Quof]

As always, Kelly is awesome.

 

http://www.people.com/article/taylor-swift-approves-kelly-clarkson-cover-blank-space

[lovemytvshows]

As I said in another post, I think Taylor is a very savvy and shrewd artist, particularly when it comes to her professional career. But she really comes across at times as being stuck emotionally and mentally in high school.

 

Probably attributed to the fact that she never had the "normal" teen years growing up? I find that to be such a shitty excuse but lots of child/teen stars "gone wrong" always attribute it to that fact i.e. Amanda Bynes, Justin Bieber etc etc. I call bs only because there are a lot of other underrated child/teen stars who didn't go off the deep end i.e. Mara Wilson of Matilda, Joe Mazzello of Jurassic Park, etc.

[Athena]

Probably attributed to the fact that she never had the "normal" teen years growing up? I find that to be such a shitty excuse but lots of child/teen stars "gone wrong" always attribute it to that fact i.e. Amanda Bynes, Justin Bieber etc etc. I call bs only because there are a lot of other underrated child/teen stars who didn't go off the deep end i.e. Mara Wilson of Matilda, Joe Mazzello of Jurassic Park, etc.

 

I actually think there are a lot of successful former child and teen stars who turned out fine: Neil Patrick Harris, the cast of Harry Potter, Mila Kunis, Ron Howard, Leonardo DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon Levitt, and more. The media really only reports the sad ones. I think Swift is not as bad Britney or Bieber, but she is definitely cloistered and self-involved more than most women her age or even among her own peers.

 

Kelly Clarkson's cover of Blank Space is really nice. Sometimes I think I can tolerate Swift's voice, but then I hear a cover of her song by better vocalists and wish they were the ones I heard on the radio.

[lovemytvshows]

Gotta love the Buzzfeed article on Shark-gate http://www.people.co...ver-blank-space

 

Wow Kelly has made that song I hate, bearable. Good on her.

Edited July 28, 2015 by lovemytvshows

[Stuffy]

It's about how she sang "Rhiannon" at the Grammys with Stevie Nicks off-key. (I just saw that you edited that!)

And the thing is, "Mean" seems to have a good message in theory. It absolutely sounds like a song that could be used as an anthem for kids that have been bullied in school. But it's undercut almost immediately when you find out it's actually about this. (Scroll further down and you'll get to the stuff about Taylor.)

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2010/02/01/grammys/

I remember this, because for some reason in his defense of Taylor, Scott Borchetta took a dig at American Idol contestants. Which of course everyone took as a dig at Carrie Underwood, since they were both country at the time. Carrie of course never said anything (she rarely does), but Kelly Clarkson ripped him a new one. Of course he's now on Idol as a mentor.

http://www.ew.com/article/2010/02/04/taylor-swift-kelly-clarkson-grammys-defense

Edited August 3, 2015 by Stuffy

[UYI]

Did anybody else see the story about the indie guy who said he had a bad run in with Taylor? Some of her model friends quickly shut him down, but I did find it interesting, and it came out right after the Twitter kerfuffle with Nicki Minaj. Some of it is talked about here:

 

http://www.spin.com/2015/07/taylor-swift-public-opinion-against-feaure/

 

There was also an interesting take on her so-called "girl squad." I really need that and the term "squad goals" to die, BTW:

 

http://www.mamamia.com.au/entertainment/taylor-swift-girl-squad/

 

Again, neither of things may be worth much, but they still make me curious. 

[Janet Snakehole]

As always, Kelly is awesome.

 

http://www.people.com/article/taylor-swift-approves-kelly-clarkson-cover-blank-space

I love Kelly's voice. I wish she would pick more interesting songs to sing lately, it seems that her covers are more exciting than her actual releases.

[UYI]

"Wildest Dreams" will be the next single from 1989. I still hope "Clean" might be a single afterwards, but "Wildest Dreams" is a good song and I sort of expected it to be next:

 

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop-shop/6655729/taylor-swift-announces-next-single

[lovemytvshows]

Heard Wildest Dreams on the radio for the first time today and is it just me or am I feeling some Lana Del Rey-esque vibes from the song? I mean there were some parts where it sounds similar to LDR when LDR sings higher and breathier. But the song on the whole as well to me is very LDR sounding.

Edited August 18, 2015 by lovemytvshows

[UYI]

Oh yeah, that has been mentioned quite a bit from the time the album was first released last October.

 

I'm curious as to when the video for it will be up.

 

Also, because I'm evil, I have to post this parody of Taylor inviting famous guests up with her during "Style" at her concerts to walk the runway with her (the most recent celebs to do so, at her Bay Area show last weekend, were Julia Roberts and freaking JOAN BAEZ).

 

[Janet Snakehole]

Heard Wildest Dreams on the radio for the first time today and is it just me or am I feeling some Lana Del Rey-esque vibes from the song? I mean there were some parts where it sounds similar to LDR when LDR sings higher and breathier. But the song on the whole as well to me is very LDR sounding.

Nope not just you, it is a very Lana inspired song. Here is a mash up of Wildest Dreams with Without You:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LvG_pGSZBxo

It is funny, because Bad Blood sounds like a Katy Perry song to me, Wildest Dreams like Lana, and then Out of the Woods sounds really Chvrches like to me. Say what you will about Taylor, but she really understands what is working in pop music lately.

[lovemytvshows]

It is funny, because Bad Blood sounds like a Katy Perry song to me, Wildest Dreams like Lana, and then Out of the Woods sounds really Chvrches like to me. Say what you will about Taylor, but she really understands what is working in pop music lately.

 

That or her new "originality" is ripping off other artists' unique sounds

[27bored]

I'm torn on Taylor.

 

On one hand, I think that she seems to make the music she wants to make, and her music seems to be a reflection of her at a particular moment rather than pop culture writ-large. I think, subconsciously, we appreciate music that has the mark of an auteur, even if it sucks, more than music that seems to have been written for a particular sound or moment. Like someone said, she writes and produces her own stuff. Good for her. She also seems to be in control of much of her career, which is also really good for her to be so young and a woman in entertainment.

 

I like that she seems so personable and relatable to her fans. I remember they said she has had listening parties at her house for fans which is pretty remarkable. Like, there's no way to fake that. And I think that plays to Taylor's best quality -- she's totally unaffected. We see her flaws, clear as day. She writes music that is flawed and plays into who she is as a young woman. If she were more put together, she might not be as popular. I hope she gets it together by the time she's 30 and being a clingy, bitter, whiny chick is going to look a little pitiful at that age, but for now, it's good. It suits her.

 

On the other hand, Taylor's been making music and touring for awhile now and she still can't sing. She can make decent records, but I think her lack of vocal prowess kind of limits what she can do. Every chick can't be Christina, I know, but compare her to someone like Kelly Clarkson. Kelly's pretty earnest too, but she can sell different kinds of songs because she can sing her ass off. Taylor's just earnest and can write a good tune. Being a good singer of songs will likely carry you further than just being an earnest songwriter, because the latter is going to depend, at least a little bit, on if anyone wants to hear you. Taylor's not going to be the It Girl forever and she's going to need something to fall back on when her base of teen girls grow up.

 

And, I also think some of Taylor's popularity is because she's unapologetically square. In a sea of pop tartlets twerking their fannies at the audience, seeing leggy, blond, cute-ish Taylor Swift, who's all limbs and two-left feet, come out is different. Every feminist statement doesn't have to be outre, overt sexuality. Taylor's...not really sexy at all. I've often thought that was the big joke with pop music in the new millennium: we get so distracted by artifice and flash and "star power" that when someone dares to stand at a piano and sing, or sit with a guitar and strum, or not sing a song about clubs or body parts or sex, we find it game-changing. One year it's Norah Jones. Another year it's Adele. Another year it's Sam Smith. Another year it's Taylor Swift.

[truthaboutluv]

Being a good singer of songs will likely carry you further than just being an earnest songwriter, because the latter is going to depend, at least a little bit, on if anyone wants to hear you. Taylor's not going to be the It Girl forever and she's going to need something to fall back on when her base of teen girls grow up.

 

 

See I sort of disagree because I think her being a very good songwriter is the thing that's going to keep her around for many years to come. Because yes, while a great voice can carry an artist, being able to write their own songs is invaluable. Because just like Taylor will not always be the It Girl, there will always be someone with a great voice, a better voice and if as a singer one is dependent on good songwriters for their material, what happens when that songwriter or songwriters has moved on to the next amazing voice?

 

Case in point, you referenced Christina Aguilera - when was the last time she had a hit album or hit solo song? She's had some hits as a guest vocalist on other artists' song but Christina hasn't had a solo hit in years. And she has an amazing voice. The reason Adele was as successful as she was wasn't just because of her amazing voice, and it is amazing, but also because she's a songwriter and wrote or co-wrote every one of those songs on 21. Songwriting is also incredibly lucrative because it's a fact people don't make money of album sales alone - it's the touring, merchandise and royalties. And you only get royalties from being a writer on a song. 

 

Honestly, as mediocre a singer as she is, amongst Rihanna, Katy Perry, Miley and whoever else (probably not Beyonce and I would not categorize Adele in this group), I actually think Taylor is the one that'll be around a decade from now.  Yes she's not the best singer but she's shown herself to be incredibly smart and shrewd about her career, she's a very strong songwriter, at this point she's made some incredible connections in the industry, she produces as well, she has stakes in her label. In some years I can see Taylor running her own label and making even more money than she's already making.

[Princess Sparkle]

Nope not just you, it is a very Lana inspired song. Here is a mash up of Wildest Dreams with Without You:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LvG_pGSZBxo

It is funny, because Bad Blood sounds like a Katy Perry song to me, Wildest Dreams like Lana, and then Out of the Woods sounds really Chvrches like to me. Say what you will about Taylor, but she really understands what is working in pop music lately.

I wonder how much of that is her, and how much of that is Max Martin.  Obviously, she was already popular when she was doing country-lite stuff, but she really started knocking it out of the stratosphere when she hooked up with him.  He's credited as a producer and writer for the three songs you mentioned, plus a few others off 1989.  Out of the Woods is actually my favorite song of that album, and it doesn't surprise me that it was written by Jack Antonoff, because it sounds like his stuff.  

 

I wish Taylor's personality didn't come off as so fake and calculated to me, because her songs are extremely catchy.  Whenever Taylor is showing off her "girl squad", I always think of this article by Anne Helen Peterson (don't be distracted by the fact that it's on Buzzfeed, Anne Helen Peterson is actually quite an accomplished author).

Edited August 21, 2015 by Princess Sparkle

[lovemytvshows]

Thanks for the link to the article, Princess Sparkle, I'm sure I've browsed it before on Buzzfeed when it first came out and it's been a good re-read. 

 

The article has definitely touched on so many of the essential points of the whole T-Swift Girl Squad that has assaulted our senses over the past few months:

 

• Strategic "girl-friend collecting" for positive press
• Reinventing herself as a "cheerleader" for girl power
• Each of her girl squad member "calculated to reflect a particular component of the Swift image"
• "Swift doesn’t cultivate rivals so much as neutralize them" - using Ariana Grande & Ellie Goulding as examples, followed by, "And even if Grande and Goulding wanted to reject Swift’s advances, their publicity team would undoubtedly tell them not to: a Swift Instagram appearance arguably makes you more visible, especially to a target demographic, than a magazine cover." - How can they stand it?! Gah! But I guess if you're in the business you have to suck it up and smile for the cameras

 

This bit was cringe-worthy though (in relation to Swift, not the article): With such benevolence, Swift comes across as the ultimate in magnanimity: the opposite of the Regina George insult Katy Perry flung her way earlier this year.

 

Yeah sure "magnanimous" only because it suits her carefully crafted image.

[Athena]

I don't think I'm the only one who has mixed views about Swift because while her image is nauseating and calculated at times, I can't help but like it when I hear about how she treats her fans. Then I read a comment on the Tom and Lorezno blog about her in which the original poster had read this Psychology Today article about Narcissism:
 

Narcissistic folks can be generous.
 
Narcissistic folks actually are often very generous.  They may, for instance, give away large sums of money to charity.  Generous giving makes the giver feel good and also feels appropriate, like "the right" thing to do.  They may well therefore pride themselves on their compassion and altruism.

At the same time, in a situation in which someone who tends toward narcissism wants something, and that desire is in conflict with what someone else wants, that's when the selfish side takes over.

Often too, the tendency toward compassionate generosity gets directed toward strangers.  The people closest to a narcissist receive far less compassion and far more dismissive listening.

 

I am not a professional psychologist nor do I know Swift, but she does come off self-centered and defensive. On some occasions, I can separate the artist's work and personality. This one is a bit harder because she's very overexposed and not a great singer to begin with.

 

I do agree that she is in for the long haul. Tons of industry veterans love and adore her. She's very smart about her brand, image, and how to evolve with pop.
 

[lovemytvshows]

Another Taylor Swift longform article from Buzzfeed: http://www.buzzfeed.com/doree/that-taylor-swift-fantasy-life-can-be-yours#.soMB1Qad6G

 

I must admit I do get a little kick out of reading these - it's the same stuff we've covered on this board but it still fun to read a different version of the same main points.

[27bored]

See I sort of disagree because I think her being a very good songwriter is the thing that's going to keep her around for many years to come. Because yes, while a great voice can carry an artist, being able to write their own songs is invaluable. Because just like Taylor will not always be the It Girl, there will always be someone with a great voice, a better voice and if as a singer one is dependent on good songwriters for their material, what happens when that songwriter or songwriters has moved on to the next amazing voice?

 

Good point. I mean, in theory being able to write songs will keep someone around longer than just having a good voice, because first comes the song then the voice, but to the extent that good songs and songwriters are also a dime a dozen in the industry, and it seems the industry thrives on the hot producer/songwriter of the moment as much as they do singers, I don't think Taylor can rest on the fact that she knows her way around a hook for longevity, either. Plus, like it's been mentioned, I don't know how much of that is her or Max Martin/her other collaborators.

 

Case in point, you referenced Christina Aguilera - when was the last time she had a hit album or hit solo song? She's had some hits as a guest vocalist on other artists' song but Christina hasn't had a solo hit in years. And she has an amazing voice. The reason Adele was as successful as she was wasn't just because of her amazing voice, and it is amazing, but also because she's a songwriter and wrote or co-wrote every one of those songs on 21. Songwriting is also incredibly lucrative because it's a fact people don't make money of album sales alone - it's the touring, merchandise and royalties. And you only get royalties from being a writer on a song.

 

Well, Christina has other issues that hinder her from having a hit. She tries to make every song and single into a statement of self, she has dated pop sensibilities, she goes away for years at a time so she never keeps any momentum going, and she's unlike a lot of the shrinking violets we have for pop stars these days. But your point is ell taken; she hasn't a solo hit in, well, almost ten years.

 

Honestly, as mediocre a singer as she is, amongst Rihanna, Katy Perry, Miley and whoever else (probably not Beyonce and I would not categorize Adele in this group), I actually think Taylor is the one that'll be around a decade from now.  Yes she's not the best singer but she's shown herself to be incredibly smart and shrewd about her career, she's a very strong songwriter, at this point she's made some incredible connections in the industry, she produces as well, she has stakes in her label. In some years I can see Taylor running her own label and making even more money than she's already making.

 

I actually agree with you here. I think with all the artists you named (even perhaps Beyonce), Taylor will be around a decade from now still making music. I think she'll eventually go country again and sort of fade from mainstream pop culture, but I think she'll still be successful.

 

[truthaboutluv]

Plus, like it's been mentioned, I don't know how much of that is her or Max Martin/her other collaborators.

 

 

Taylor was huge long before she hooked up with Max Martin professionally. The Max Martin collaboration did not start until she wanted to fully make the move from country to pop, which makes sense because he's one of the biggest producers in pop music. But she was making hit songs and having hit albums long before him. Yes, she has had co-writers and co-producers but she's also written and produced many songs just on her own. Again, I'm the first to call her a mediocre singer but songwriting and producing she can do. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[methodwriter85]

 

Taylor's not going to be the It Girl forever and she's going to need something to fall back on when her base of teen girls grow up.

You realize the kind of royalties that Taylor gets as someone who's written four number 1 singles? She is set for life.

Edited August 29, 2015 by methodwriter85

[AimingforYoko]

You realize the kind of royalties that Taylor gets as someone who's written four number 1 singles? She is set for life.

Sting still makes 240k a year for "Every Breath You Take".

[UYI]

And now for the music video to "Wildest Dreams." The guy in the video, BTW, is Scott Eastwood, son of Clint.

 

[lovemytvshows]

T-Swizzle and her "squad" making "squad-goals" at the VMAs: http://www.buzzfeed.com/lyapalater/taylor-swift-arrived-at-the-vmas-with-her-entire-flawless-sq#.mokMEe32L

 

And also...http://www.buzzfeed.com/vikky/avril-lavigne-joined-taylor-swift-on-stage-last-ni-y65c#.rwOr7ao9W

 

A cunning strategy for Taylor Swift but it definitely works. As much as I find it frustrating how she "neutralizes" her rivals/enemies/twitternemies this way, you gotta give her props, it works and makes Taylor look like the bigger person.

Edited August 31, 2015 by lovemytvshows